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October 11, 2007

PLAY-AID: Phantom Titan Rules from BoLS

27 comments

Hi guys,

As you all know, we are absolute titan fanatics here at the Bell. We have rules for the Eldar Revenant in Apocalypse, but nothing for its larger brother, the mighty Phantom. Well, as there is actually a model available for it compared to the non-existant Warlord, we had to do something. So here you all go.


These rules have a little more of "the art" mixed into them, so please feel free to test them out and let me know if you think the titan is to hot, to cold, or just right. Based on the feedback on the Reaver, I shouldn't have long to wait :)

I hope all you proud Phantom-titan owners have some fun with these. Enjoy

Download Here

27 comments:

Johnny said...

No Shields of any kind?

Slaaneshi Slave said...

Titan Holofields.

Johnny said...

Guh, maybe I should read a little closer. ;)

I like it. Awfully darned fast for such a large model, just like the description.

Denilsta said...

Another wonderfull Data-sheet, rules look balanced for the point cost. I cannot wait for the Great Gargant version now.

Damon said...

I noticed that the Heat Lance is not listed under the Weapons and Equpiment, though it is labeled in the art and has a stat block. I assume it should be grouped with the other arm weapons. Slight oversight?

Per usual, stellar rules and presentation thereof. Thumbs up!

Anonymous said...

Heres some constructive feedback, I've played over 10 games with the titan kits with FW rules, and a couple already with the new Apoc rules:

Only 6 structure? Compare it to an Armorcast Reaver...maybe it should have 8? Also for +500pts it seems it should get more structure point compared to the smaller Reaver, whether its the new FW one or Armorcast.

I think you went a bit overboard on two weapons:

Sonic Lance effective range: I think the Hellstorm template should not be placed so far (36") from the model...maybe 24" so its still better than the Warhound Inferno Cannon's 18".


Heat lance should be a shorter range, maybe 48" and does not need +2 on the damage charts..thats better than a "Destroyer" class weapon. I would pick either Destroyer with its plus one or the Melta rules with a 24"/48" threshold for extra dice damage.

Anyway, consider these in your playtesting.

Anonymous said...

Where can you buy a Phantom Titan?

bigred said...

Sharp eyes Damon,

v1.01 is up with the Heat Lance listed in the arm options.

Thanks

bigred said...

Lets keep the feed back coming...

My thoughts on the Phantom design are based on the current Apocalypse titan specs, and all of the Phantom weapon specs from Epic: Space Marine.

If anything i'm trying to err by default on the low side things instead of overpowering the unit. I have a feeling the unit as described may be worth closer to 1800-1900, but I cant be sure at this point.

Phantoms are tough, but not in a standup punching brawl with a Warlord, which will win every time. 7 structure points may be more exact, as they were not that much weaker, but perhaps AV:13 on the front might do it as well.

Weapon wise, the 4 primary weapons are designed to all be tradeoffs between range, damage, accuracy, and killing potential. They are also designed to be superior to the arm weapons of the Warlord titan on an individual basis. (making the Phantom both more lethal and fragile than its Warlord counterpart)

At the most lethal end of the scale is the very shortranged distort-cannon, which is utterly game-altering and devastating, while you get the "pedestrian" Pulsar at the other extreme for long range sniping.

The heat lance is more devastating than a Destroyer weapen because it's supposed to be. In epic it was utterly devastating against vehicles (much deadlier than things currently categorized as strength D such as volcano cannons, and pulsars), but required that you get close to unleash its full potential (30" in this version).

I'm in no way trying to defend these rules, just explain where they are coming from. I want all the feedback you guys can throw at me, especially actual apocalypse battle results from those lucky Phantom owners out there.

We all want the best rules we can get for our beloved titans, and we will get there together.

Denilsta said...

In reference to where you buy a phantom from, ebay is your best bet. 3 have been sold in the last week for about $400 each. There is one selling at the moment.

ColKillgore said...

I fielded mine along with 2 others at a local floorhammer battle last year. I will use the datasheet and get back to you with the results.

Fabricator-General said...

Nice work...I'm starting to come to this site more than ever.

I agree with anonmous about the two weapons being a bit OTT, but like your approach and can see the wisdom in following Epic.

Let's see, Towering Destroyer is next? Then Gargant?

How about the Dragon's Den armory Gabriel titan with a gatling blastgun and massive chainfist?

Boss Salvage said...

"Floorhammer" is right ...

Weapons made me go O_O when I saw them, but I suppose it is a titan and THIS - IS - APOC! after all ;D

I personally would switch the 7" template on the D-Cannon with the 10" template on the heat lance. Seems really really evil to have such a long range 10" template flying around, and I think the switch takes into account the "disapates rapidly" of the melta and "destroys everything but short range" of the D-Cannon.

I was gonna complain about how cheap titans are in APOC, but seeing how low the armor is on this thing I guess if I went first I might be able to kill it with my 2000 points of Chaos vs just the phantom. Holofields though, are those like the standard pain-in-the-butt falcon ones?

- Salvage

studderingdave said...

another fine datasheet. like manny others on this blog im awaiting the great gargant one, hope its next....

studderingdave said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Teemu said...

Nice work man! But we want serious stuff! We want gargants!!! *STOMP, STOMP*

Perry said...

nice rules, you'v done all phantom users a good service :)

I beleave the heat lance should stay as it is, given the rareity of Phantoms on the battlefield, the very fragile low armor and the fact it will be the first weapon to get destroyed everygame

I would have perfered the phantom missile launcher to get a template, mabey that 5 template thing but with low strength 2 or 3? and a low ap, for use as a light infantry supression weapon

I'm looking forward to other datasheets :)

squigboy said...

Nice! I had been playing with my phantom since the original VDR and when I saw the first FW Revenant rules I realized I had pulled back too far!
My feeling on the 'fax is that it should probably be 7 structure, 13 armor seems too heavy for an Eldar construct, especially one that moves fast. I don't have the original Space Marine so I can't say what the original rules on the prism cannon on the wing would have been but it always struck me as looking like a large flamer. Would a toned down Inferno work? S6 AP3 Hellstorm template, place in 12" or something. similar?

Anonymous said...

Nice datafax, will be using this one along with the reaver for the apocalypse battle I have comming up soon :) as for the wing laser it was just a 2 shot lascannon in epic 2nd ed.
The one thing i find funny is the missile launcher only 24" range, in epic it had the same range as the pulsar, maybe boosting its rnage to 48" might help?

bigred said...

UPDATE: Minor Revision

-Structure upped from 6 to 7
-Wing Missile Launcher range increased to 36"

Jeffrey said...

Hey Guys,

Absolutely Phantastic stuff you've got here. I really dig the effort you've put into so many aspects of the hobby and how this sub-cult community is getting more attention. Keep up the excellent work!

Shock-fire said...

Now that there is a Phantom Titan Datasheet, we need one for the Eldar Warlock Titan with Psychic Lance as well. My thoughts were it should be 400 points more than a regular Phantom. With this increase we keep all the existing stats and weapons but we add the Psychic Lance to the list of available weapons and the titan receives the use of the Eldar Farseer psychic powers Doom, Fortune, and Guide which are automatically augmented (range doubled) due to the titan's amplifying abilities and can be used on itself or neighboring friendly Eldar units (psychic tests are still required, but if the test is failed then the power doesn't go off that turn and there is no chance of a perils of the warp attack due to the safety provided by the titan). My idea for the Psychic Lance based on the epic one is as follows.

Psychic Lance*
Range: 36"
Strength: D
AP: X
Special: Apocalyptic Barrage, Destroyer, Primary Weapon

*The effects of a hit from a Psychic Lance vary greatly depending on the victim. To fire the Psychic Lance, place the Apocalyptic Barrage template so that it is within range and line of sight of the firing titan. Any model that is partially covered by the template will be hit on a D6 roll of 5 or 6. Infantry are killed instantly without the possibility of a saving throw. Vehicles suffer a penetrating hit automatically, or it can be downgraded to a glancing hit if the vehicle has smoke launchers, is a fast skimmer, etc. Lesser daemons which are hit are instantly cast back into the warp without a saving throw, whereas greater daemons are allowed a single 4+ saving throw, which if failed, they are cast back to the warp regardless of remaining # of wounds. Any enemy psycher that is not a daemon and is hit by the Psychic Lance receives a 3+ invulnerable save against the shot, if failed they are killed outright regardless of remaining # of wounds. In addition, due to its devastating psychic blast, the Psychic Lance inflicts D3 Structure points damage on a target with structure points and D6 wounds on Gargantuan Creatures.


Please let me know what you think, too powerful, too expensive, not expensive enough...

Thanks.

Anonymous said...

I would up the rear armour to 12 (like the revenant) - even though the rear will very rarely be exposed. Also, given the points value i would increase the front AV to 13. I know the who GW fluff reasoning behind it but think about it. The abrams M1 does not sto pat a certain grade of armour just because the US has weapons that effectivley ignore it!

With 1 play test using the latest version (AV was 14, 13, 12 though) and 7 SP it worked great and was balanced at a 2000 point value...

poogle said...

Nice stuff, though I do have a few comments:

IIRC the eldar titan powerfists are supposed to incorporate multiple shuriken cannons (4 shots back in old epic).

I think it would be a mistake to put eldar armour values below 14. Given the fluff around how strong wraithbone is, and (again if my memory is right) that phantoms had as good armour as warlord titans back in epic, they should be high AV.

The wing mount options seem a tad imbalanced (huge cannon vs. small missiles), I think the appropriate equivalent might be a bright lance rather than a boosted prism cannon (alternatively install a more potent missile weapon to give it 4 weapons approaching warlord-titan equivalents - something along the lines of the Vulcan Mega Bolter in effect maybe).

Chuckles said...

I have played with the v1.5 rules twice now in Apocalypse games and I have enjoyed them, as have my opponents.

The first game was against 2000 points of Tau with no force organization rules. The titan won by the skin of its guns. The won first turn and immediately eliminated all the tanks on the board. I thought it might be a bit overpowered at this point. The titan was shaken in the Tau response and spent the rest of the game immobile. The titan then spent the rest of the game trading fire with the horde of battlesuits. When the final three suits were eliminated, the Titan had one structure point left. My opponent and I were rather impressed by the balance in the rules.

In the second game, the Titan's side lost the first turn bid and it sat immobile for the next three turns. The Phantom Pulsar was destroyed in the ... thrid Tau turn but not before it destroyed a few tanks. The heat lance couldn't fire until the third turn, when it vaped a section of the Tau line. After taking tons of fire and never once getting a holo-field save, the Titan was still standing with 3 structure points. The Eldar army was able to pull out a win due to the fact that the Tau players had brought a whole 3! troops choices to the game and could not hold more than one objective.

At this point, the Phantom Titan rules are balanced in my eyes. Thanks to the Bell of Lost Souls crew for assembling rules that make my friends insist I bring it to all our games. There can be no better way to have spent my 1998 tax return than on my beautiful Titan. Now, I'm off to go paint the big bastard. I'll post some pics on my blog.

Anonymous said...

its so big the post and packaging was almost more than it!

coasterg said...

Where is the rulesheet available from now? The link provided is now dead.

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