This news brought to the community by Warseer's: DinoDoc via the Relicforums
~It looks like Jervis had a nice chat with some folks at Ireland's Warpcon. Lets see what's tidbits are coming out of the Emerald Isle:
Liber Apocalypica
April among other things will see the release of Liber Apocalyptica, which deals with different sections of existing armies, then creates Apocalypse Datasheets for them. First up is Chaos with the Emperor's Children Noise Marines. It's going to be a White Dwarf segment. The April edition contains a datasheet for an Emperor's Children Warband, with lots of juicy sonic weapons.
Traitor Legions
There are plans in place to implement the Chaos Legions in 40k. That means codex's for Emperor's Children, World Eaters, Death Guard etc...bear in mind this is pretty long run stuff (2 years +). Chaos legions WILL be getting a full codex. His exact words were "if we're going to do things, we're going to do them right."
Other Codices
Dark Eldar are HIGH on the list guys. Alien hunters isn't on the radar, since the focus is on updating current army lists rather than starting new ones. This means Dark Eldar, Guard and Space Wolf players are going to be happy. Jes Goodwin is already throwing around some concepts for Dark Eldar plastics.
A new Imperial Guard codex is being talked about.
A Space Wolf codex is high on the priority list, and he revealed they're among his favourite chapters, purely because they actually care about the civilians, they're the good guys as he put it.
There's not going to be much in the way of Lost And The Damned as Jervis feels they're covered already and more suited to Apocalypse as it is.
Sorry for you Armoured Company guys, Jervis mentioned when I asked that they'd be ridiculously hard to manage balance wise, but they're throwing around the idea of giving Guard maybe 4 Heavy Support slots. He first said 6 and then when my eyes widened in shock he laughed and shrugged, "Well maybe 4...". He feels Armoured Company are better off in Apocalypse, and he might do a datasheet on them for it, but as far as 40K it doesn't look good.
Thoughts on the CSM Codex
The idea behind the Chaos legions is that he felt that the last book tried to cover every aspect of the Chaos forces, and did it badly. The way he saw Chaos was as this huge amalgamation of different forces serving the Dark Gods, each deserving their own army book.
The current Chaos codex is meant to represent renegade marines, not necessarily the ancient 10,000 year old servants of Chaos. He felt that while splitting up the different aspects of Chaos into their separate sections while at first painful (as shown by the displeasure at the recent codex) will, in the long run, do each component part more justice than a small 20-30 page footnote in an army book.
He said they regret not letting Chaos guys in on what the big picture was, and he feels they probably should have pushed that angle a little more (hindsight is always 20/20 though...).
Misc. Items
He wants to release a book of scenarios for 40k as he feels most of the complaints from people come from the fact that there are a limited amount of scenarios and mission types, and people can tailor their armies to excel in those limited confines, and as such win more easily. He feels a more varied approach to missions and scenarios might help to balance the game, rather than a more kill things and have more scoring units than your opponent approach.
Jervis revealed (and I can quote him on this) that Cypher is "absolutely NOT a Chaos Space Marine". The way he envisioned Cypher is as an avatar of redemption, that in some sense the fallen Dark Angels are the good guys, as they see their mistakes and learned from it, but the Dark Angels simply can't see past it, and instead decide to kill things to solve the problem. He also said that Cypher is not entirely human (or super human as the case may be) anymore due to the rend in reality that shattered Caliban, casting the fallen angels through space and time. He said there's a mystical aspect to his character. He also explained a lot of where he got the idea from, a Clint Eastwood movie called High Plains Drifter was his main inspiration.
Also Void Dragon fans don't hold your breath. I asked him if we're going to learn any more about it and it was the only question I asked to which he replied he has no idea.
~ As a proud Death Guard army collector and player, let me tell you guys... I'm stoked about that Chaos Legion news!!! ...and Cypher... hey, who knew?
36 comments:
Well all that rather leaves us LatD players swinging in the breeze.
I suppose we'll just have to make do with the old list for our traitors, which all seems a bit strange given the amount of work Forge World have put into traitor Guard & Ogryn figures of late.
Not everyone has the time or facilities to play Apocalypse all the time...
sad for the LATD players. i just got done with a 50+ thousand point APOC battle today and im glad we only do these things once every 3-4 months. sucks that LATD wont have a normal list.
thrilled about my deathguard getting their own rulebook, even if it is far off, im still down.
little disappointed in the Cypher leak. the vioce, Cypher whoever should have been left as is.
the more that remains unknown about the dark angels, the more interesting they are. for me its all about the hinden truths and secrets of the 1st legion.
I think Jervis is probably thinking "Pale Rider" as much as "High Plains Drifter", but both are Clint Eastwood greats.
well, after reading the last archivment of the horus heresy books (descendants of angels) i had a slightly different idea about Cypher, but perhaps we will know more in the future
the rumors sounds quite good, except course the LatD, but since i never saw a lot of them, it was almost predictable that this would happen
My main list is DA and I can say the whole Cypher take is just stupid. Leave them as is. As Caisteal said, the less we know the more interesting they are. How retarded is it to have a good guy list from C:CSM and the bad guys are drawn up from C:SM? Totaly stupid and if I may be political, this is what you get when you live in a society that lack responsibility. "Oh, its not the Terrorists fault they are Terrorists, society made them do it." What ever. Cypher and the fallen are just that, fallen. They need to stay that way. Or dead for that matter.
"A new Imperial Guard codex is being talked about."
Bugger. I love the Guard codex, with the sheer flexibility of the Doctrines. And if they make a new codex, they'll remove that and make it blandly boring like Chaos and Eldar (both of which had modificiations for making armies different using a core list, but don't any more).
Please, don't mess with the Guard!
[quote]"if we're going to do things, we're going to do them right."[/quote]
Well THAT would be a nice change.
Looks like we'll be adding LatD to our list of BoLS mini-codices.
On the subject of the mini-codices, when is the Genestealer Cult list coming out?
@bigred: and Ordo Xenos! I smell an Ordo Xenos Purgation Force in the near future.
@anon: Genestealer Cult is final and being reviewed by our playtesters. The OHSF is in the final formatting stages (I'm writing the "From the Author" section now).
We'll probably release one (or both) of them this week.
@brotherwill
if you think space marines are the good guys, maybe you should take another look at the fluff. the person they fight to protect eats souls for crying outloud, and free thought is banned. the imperium is just as corrupt as any of the other races out there, they just get hid under the fact that they are human.The closest to good guys in the whole universe is Tau, and they have the motto "join us or die!"
As for the fallen, i don't mind that some of them are considered good. At least they don't lie to their own people, and the Dark Angels are so good at twisting the truth i'm not sure that they know what's false anymore.
Even if players nag about the lack of option in the new codexs, I'd rather have the whole Inquisition (with Ordo Xenos among it instead of giving them a new codie and neglecting other Inq players) put into something like that than have nothing. Or at least something like the last BA codex.
comon its just a game dont b mean
On Cypher... As much as I love Cypher, and as thoroughly as I "LOEV" High Plains Drifter, it sounds like this part of the Q&A came when Jervis was deep into several pitchers of Guiness.
In the 41st Millenium, there are NO good guys. Human/alien or whatever. Everyone has their own agenda.
Just makes it more interesting when they clash ;P
I'll solve the good guy v bad guy once and for all.
Buddy, whichever side I play is good whereas whatever you play is bad.
It's like overpopulation: Too many of you, just enough of me.
Lighten up.
The scenario book is what excites me the most (after the Guard 'dex). A whole book of different battles should keep the game fresh for a while!
Gang, Stay on topic.
Arguments regarding the nature of good vs evil belong on a philosophy forum, not this one.
ha! bigred holsters his mod smokewagons as two scifi philosophers hit the dust in the distance. i heart this blog.
i gotta say, it's weird that JJ's apologizing for the chaos dex. weird and just... uncomfortable. it's not a broken book so far as i can tell, and it does indeed do what he says it was supposed to do - but not that badly, come on. the major changes (emphasis on a mixed legion force, demon/renegade split) took some getting used to, but now that i am, he's expressing regret? lil too late bra! take a break with the chaos and get that wolves codex out already!
The comments from JJ just underlines the fact that the current codex should have come with the name -
Codex: Chaos Space Marines - Warbands and renegades.
Looking forward to the legion codexes (I hope they'll be in WD just like the BA one).
Codex Space Marines, an admitted mess.
Codex Eldar, personal thoughts aside, not that bad.
Codex Chaos Space Marines, an admitted mess.
Codex Orks, possibly to early to tell, but seems well over powered (basic Ork is cheaper, better at close combat and shooting than the most advanced race, the Eldar?).
So half of the new Codecies released under the "new format" are at an admitted fault. Doesnt hold much hope for future releases. Makes me wonder why they worry about balance issues with Imperial Guard Armoured Companies and other specialised lists which deserve to be as much a part of the game as anything else.
At the moment it seems like they are riding the wave of hype and consumer power by releasing something new every month (over various systems) and to hell with the consequences. eg: we have finished Orks, we now have three months to get Codex Daemons on the shelf..........how many other 40K released are rumoured for release this year, at least 3 that I can think of.
I know where GW would be if half of their new miniature range was the same half-ased quality thier publications are.
"At the moment it seems like they are riding the wave of hype and consumer power by releasing something new every month"
Actually yeah, that occured to me this morning as I drove into work and listened to continuing stock market woes. GeeDub pushing and pushing stuff because a) we still haven't lost total faith, and b) consumer power has yet to run out.
For me, looks like 2008 highlights are ...
- C:Demons
- 5th Edition
And otherwise a lot of working on CSM & fantasy armies, and gaming gaming gaming. Not interested in Wolves, Guard, Inq, Crons or whatever the mysterious Q4 codex turns out to be.
Thanks for the summaries BoLS lads!
- Salvage
GW is clearly trying to work towards one 40k, one WFB, and one LotR release each quarter - which means something new each month. 2007 almost had one release a month, I think it was 10 for the year.
They need to do an "unwashed masses" codex. Too much of the fluff is based around uprisings of chaos, genestealers, heretics - and they're all basically "untrained human" statlines. Look at most of the novels. Most of the villians don't fit into a codex. Blood Pact are arguably renegade guard (with some different equipment). But, it's usually hordes of zealots with a few genestealers/CSM/renegade Inquisitors/etc. leading the unwashed masses of humanity in rebellion against the psyker-eating Emperor.
I can see the point of updating all the remaining established armies, maybe even re-doing some (BA comes to mind). But, at some point, GW needs to do a LatD-ish Codex. Considering that most of LatD, Genestealer Cult, and religious zealots would be the same (Troops - humans with laspistols, heavies - looted IG tanks) - they could almost do it in one codex (but they won't). The big difference is do you get: CSM and deamons, genestealers and psykers, or arco-flagellants?
I've seen some folks on other forums saying that Jervis is apologizing for putting out a shabby product in the CSM codex, but I don't read that at all.
I think he feels the product is fine, but that GW could have done a better job in explaining that they are basically splitting the giant old CSM codex into 3-7 new ones, and we are only seeing the leading edge of of the huge Chaos wave that is coming.
There are some good guys in the W40K universe - Da Orks! :)
Who else is a comfortable in his skin than an Ork? Who else is as happy? Who else lives in a true meritocracy?
Not one other race has the Orks' happy-go-choppy' outlook.
I've seen some folks on other forums saying that Jervis is apologizing for putting out a shabby product in the CSM codex, but I don't read that at all.
I agree completly. It didn't seem like an apology for the product itself, more of an apology that it wasn't made clearer that this would be the "Chaos Renegades" Codex and that there would be later Codices for individual Traitor Legions, just like how the Imperial Space Marines have one Codex and then certain chapters of note that don't follow the codex have their own.
I personally think it would be really cool to have at least all 4 power Legions get their own book as a physical copy, and maybe putting out an update or BA style codex for all the first founding Legions, traitor or otherwise.
Even if it's just something as simple as: well here's a.. White scar named character. Like the master of the Ravenwing he let's all your Bike Squads count as troops, as sort of an alternative to the Trait system.
I wish someone would ask Jervis about GW killing off the very new and very popular 40k RPG... :-(
Problem is that GW bring out so many releases that they advertise in whiite dwarf, in white dwarf they can never focus on something for more than an issue
@mitey heroes: Totally agree wheres the flexibility
@bigred: Totally agree
So are just the aspect Legions (for lack of a better term. The World Eaters, Death Guard, Thousand Sons, and Emperor's Children.) getting their own books or are they going to cover the Undivided legions as well?
You would think if they covered Undivided Legions too, that would just be WAY to much Chaos. Especially from the view of us Imperium Players...
Ugh, I just spent the last few months spending hundreds of dollars and hours of time on an Armored Company, and after playing a grand total of four games with it, I get this piece of news. I knew this was coming when I saw that only troop choice infantry count as scoring. Oh well, at least the extra Heavy slot(s) will be there, so I might spend whatever tank money I have left on infantry and see how it turns out.
As for the rest of 5th edition, I think it looks great, except for the S4 defensive weapons, which make heavy bolters and pulse weapons nearly pointless. IG and Tau now have to either move or shoot, which does not make sense to me, given the elaborate technology of the Tau and all the crew members jammed into every IG tank. Anyway, I'm hoping for a change to S5, and otherwise I'm really optimistic about 5th ed.
Minibull wrote:
"I wish someone would ask Jervis about GW killing off the very new and very popular 40k RPG... :-("
Huh? Am I missing some rumour or news fact here? Why would GW already be killing off a game that was only just published? And Black Industries is mostly independent from GW proper, right?
Never mind my last message, I just saw the press release... :-(
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