Images brought to the community by Bolter and Chainsword's: ravenheart
Look at this ladies and gentlemen! I'd say that is as hard a confirmation as we're going to get that 5th is indeed right around the corner.
On a related note also from Games Day France, check out this link to BoLS reader: Waxfrance's awesome Gamesday France webpage. Its really put together well with over 100 great images of the convention and a cool 2-minute video.
UPDATE!
We also have some additional 5th edition tidbits:
- Release Date: Saturday, July 5th
- Powerfists confirmed as not getting an additional attack unless equipped with a second PF.
- Secondary weapons on vehicles confirmed as Strength:4.
- Units which are charged get a "response move" of some type (so many of the "precision charging" shenanigans of 4th are out the window).
68 comments:
Can't wait!
Well, it looks awesome imho :)
Looks to much like Fantasy, to less gothic and Sci-Fi to me.
Sad&Bad.
oh nuds they're really going ahead with it, i really dislike 5th edition!
Well there's another sixty bucks gone. Sigh.
Change is good. Bring it on!
@anon1:
I know the rumours are everywhere, but seriously... can we at least wait for the book to be released before deciding to hate 5th edition?
There are things in the rumours I like, things I don't, but really-- I know I'll buy it (especially if the box set is as sweet as rumblings indicate), and because I love 40k, I'll play as much 5th ed and I've been playing 4th.
oh, and I like the cover quite a bit.
@Chad
And that's why GW will continue to publish sub-par product at high prices.
Ooo. Maybe I'll have enough to actually afford it by september....
"...And that's why GW will continue to publish sub-par product at high prices."
Because people like the product enough to continue spending money on it?
Honestly, that seems like a pretty good reason to me.
Let's face it: for all of GW's shortcomings, they not only continue to produce a product of sufficiently high quality that lots of people spend lots of their disposable income on it, they continue to improve on that product as well. Models which are coming out now are, pretty much without exception, of higher quality than earlier models. Rules which are coming out now are, almost without exception, of higher quality than earlier rules. Their writing in general has taken a step up even just since I've been playing the game (which is only about five or six years or so).
If GW's product isn't worth the money, don't buy it. Complaining about other people who do think that it's worth the money, though, is puerile.
not a fan of the cover at all
The joke I've seen is that 5th is now the BRB (Big Red Book).
I wonder if powerfists will get recosted because that's 50 points right there +15 if the terminator honours system is still there.Then again with two powerfists you're not doing much else.
Hopefully in the new codex my vet squad sgt can still take a storm bolter. In DA he cannot.
13 Spikes on the Shield.
But who are the Space Marines (looks like some sort of Fists?) fighting? I can't quite make it out.
I like it.
The French Gamesday looks great too. He is hoping the ones in the New World manage to achieve this year.
My only problem is that str 4 thing. Awesome cover!
I'm really excited, except:
"Secondary weapons on vehicles confirmed as Strength:4."
WHYYYYY!!!!! As if firing heavy bolters and big shootas on the move was messing up the game.... I don't get it. Hopefully this will make sense in the context of the actual rules for vehicles moving and shooting.
I understand this game isn't a perfect simulation of future reality, and many things secrets were lost from the Dark Age of Technology, blah blah, but modern tanks do just fine rattling off shots while advancing. I don't want my Predators, etc. to be turrets.
In 4th at least you got half victory points for immobolizing a vehicle but not destroying its weapons, even against normally stationary vehicles like Basilisks. If they keep that rule it could end up really silly depending on how things get changed.
I am intreigued, imo 3.5 was better than 3rd, 4th is better than 3.5, this gives me hope for 5th. The dileniation that I make between 2nd and 3rd is one from a squad level tactial game in 2nd to a unit level game in 3rd; the mechanics and subsequently tactics are so different that are not even the same game really.
The new editions change up the game and prevent it from stagnating, of course every one will not like what comes but if you post constructive critisim and possible solutions they do tend to wend their way to Nottingham. You can also try writing them you may be plesantly supprised.
yes YES YES - Charge reactions ! wa-hoo! as a tau player I am so
although the defensive weapons thing is a bit of a concern. Although I don't think they are out to make tanks into immobile gun-bunkers. I would guess that there is going to be some kind of new rule for vehicle mounted weapons. too early to tell. Maybe defensive weapons will still be able to fire if crew are shaken/stunned. maybe there is a category called secondary weapons that include weapons of S5 to S7 and anything higher is a primary weapon. Who knows?
I'm sure the game will just be as fun. I can't wait.
Well so much for the idea of a predator destructor rumbling forward then. Might as well keep the anniliators, or bunkers if you prefer, for tank hunting. But all things considered. 5th edition, doesn't sound too bad. Have to wait till i read the book before I fully make up my mind though.
Interesting.
If the S4 Defensive Weapons bit is true, well, I hope there's a good reason for it somewhere. Otherwise, I can't see a single gaming group in the universe not house-ruling it up to 5.
If 5th Ed releases in July does this mean we'll see the new Starter then, or are we still going to have to wait until Sept?
Hmmm,not liking that they didn't change the S4 defensive weapons thing. This seriously destroys the usefulness of basically ever vehicle out there. Skimmers are also becoming total crap now too. True, they're overpowered as they are now, but in the typical overreaction GW has to everything they're now completely overpriced garbage.
To be honest, I feel that whoever is in charge of writing the rules for GW donesn't have any idea what they're doing. The last few codexes released were either completely overpowered or completely unplayable; the balance has completely gone out of the game. I had hopes for 5th edition fixing everything, but from reading the leaked 5th rules and seeing that all the glaring mistakes haven't been fixed, I don't have much hope anymore. I know 40k will always have fans just from the compelling fluff and models, but if these rules continue to decline I can't see having many people to play here. Already it's almost impossible to get a game of 40K in at my local shop; everyone seems to have abandoned GW products and gone to other game systems.
What a shame...
Wow, I didn't even see the stuff in red until just now... I guess it's all the stuff I'm on.
Well, my concerns lie with the S4 vehicle weapons as well. That'll make IG even less manuverable, but at the same time it will take a little bit of the edge off mech eldar, which I might be willing to trade. Perhaps there will be a modification to sponson rules?
Also, The charge reactions, as the tau and IG players have already revelled about, sound awesome. I'd gladly flee, if it meant I could rapid fire into you next turn. Sounds like a good counter to the run rule!
Just as a side note, I'd like to point out that 7th ed for WFB was a good ruleset, so I do have faith for 5th, except it may mean I need to buy a few new models to make a more viable list.
Also, I think it's great they are nerfing power fists a bit, regardless of who you are, I think it must be admitted that are a teeny bit OP right now.
Looks fun guys!
The Marines on the cover are fighting Orks of course!
Bummer about the S4 and PF change.
-AMM realgenius
change is shit its ruining the game it was ment 2 mess up eldar but only made them better
I thought playtesting had shown that limiting the defensive weapons to S4 was too hard a hit to most vehicles, limiting them to bare bones Russes that sit tight the whole game. The change to S6 made moving much less a penalty, especially for all the APCs in the game that typically have lots of S5/6 weapons.
Powerfists becoming light lightning claws is an interesting change, making the choice between more attacks vs. higher str more important. This won't affect terminators at all, but all those vet sergeants and chapter commanders will take a hit. I think Dreads and MCs will like this the most however.
Anonymous said...
change is shit its ruining the game
Anonymous said...
To be honest, I feel that whoever is in charge of writing the rules for GW donesn't have any idea what they're doing.
2nd Edition was awesome at the time, but it was crap compared to 3rd Edition. 4th was a vast improvement on 3rd. I too mourn the possibility of defensive weapons being Str 4, but the truth is, 5th Edition will likely follow the trend of the previous editions and be huge improvement on 4th.
Also, it should be noted that considering the 5th Edition was probably pretty well nailed down a year ago, all of the Codexes that you assert are unplayable were written with 5th Edition in mind.
Settle down and enjoy the ride. This is going to be my 4th rules change and I'm excited about it. I'm excited about the new challenges it will bring.
You can cry a river, toss your models in the garbage, and jump to another system that will eventually change on you too - or you can look forward to the future.
I'll be doing the latter.
@ jhagadurn
I have to agree on the WFB 7th rules: I never had the chance to try WFB until recently when a friend of mine bought the BFSP box. So I can't compare the rules to any of the previous ones, but compared to either 40K 2nd or 4th (never played during 3rd they are just a blast: easy to use, logical and crystal clear in most of the situations. (imho)
Regarding the defensive weapon strength 4 stuff: could anyone explain to me what this actually means? I can currently only field a rhino and an attack bike with a multimelta, but can't remember anything based on weapon strength (I borrowed my rulebook to a friend, so I can't look it up)
Powerfists are overpowered?
I dunno.. my vet seargent shows an alarming inability to hit anything with his powerfist, so my opponents rarely complain about them beeing overpowered.. hehe
well thats my fleet of chimeras royaly screwed if the whole S4 thing is true. I quite enjoyed using them as mobile heavy support. oh well.
Im sure overall it will be an improvement if they've listened to the comunity as a whole.
@marcus
Right now you can move 6" and fire all weapons S6 and below, plus 1 S7+ weapon. With the change it will be all S4 and below, plus 1 S5+ weapon.
You won't be able to move and fire most of you guns anymore.
@marcus
Currently a regular vehicle can fire all its non-ordnance weapons if stationary, and on the move (up to 6") fire one strength 7-10 weapon and an unlimited amount of "defensive" strength 6 or under weapons. Moving 12" = no firing.
Fast vehicles are similar but with double the movement.
I love the cover, because I'm sure that there are minute details in the background that I can't see from just one picture.
Ad as for "charge reactions"... Sweet! Shooting at the chargers, maybe? Yes please.
What will "charge reactions" be? I am sure not a stand and shoot. Maybe it is just a model swap that allows you to choose who in the squad will engage.
Hey BOLS guys. How about taking a page from /. and branding all these noname commenters as anonymous cowards.
Love the artwork, absolutely hate the vehicle weapon strength nerf. It'll render most of my army useless.
I wonder how big this "response move" will be. Even if it's only an inch, that would stave off a lot of assaults I didn't want to get into.
I wouldn't expect it to be much more. Maybe a 3" anti-consolidate at most.
but then again I don't have high expectations of game designers.
Also, posting anon purely to spite bizdakka. :p
Ugh, while I liked most of the proposed 5th Ed rules, the Str4 Defensive weapons ensures I will be playing 4th until 6th Ed comes out. While Mech Eldar armies may have needed toning down, this wrecks Mech Eldar and Mech Guard armies for no apparent reason in a very real and unneccessary way, while doing nothing about Nidzilla, Flying clown circus armies or Lash-spam armies.
It seems like another unimaginative knee-jerk reaction without actually thinking about the consequences. Only Troops as scoring? How does this affect a Daemonhunters army or Eldar army compared with Orks? Defensive weapons as S4? Imperial Guard and Tau tanks just lost half their value as firepower bases, and thus much of reason to take them (especially Chimera's for Guard).
I may play my Chaos army with 5th Ed rules if I have no choice, but with a hideously nerfed Imperial Guard army and a very badly mauled Tau army, I probably will stick to 4th.
Also, given the recent trend in increasing Powerfist costs, I wonder if they will go back and recost them, as their cost will simply be too prohibitive if they lose an attack *AND* cost 166% what a Power Weapon costs for Marines and 400% of a powerweapon for Imperial Guard. Not quite sure what the point of the powerfist nerf was, especially given the trend towards MC's with the last few codex's where Powerfists are becoming more and more necessary.
While the BRB has a cool cover, I'm going to pass on it.
Yeah, I'll pass on the BRB. I kind of feel like I wasted $50 on the BGB when I already had the mini rule book.
This time, I'll be sure to wait for the starter set and just order the mini rule book from the War Store for $17.99 (if, by then, players enjoy 5th).
I'm not a fan of the Defensive weapon change to S 4 either, doesn't seem to serve any purpose other than turning tanks in to gun turrets.
Of course the Soulgrinders secondary weapon is S4, AP5, Assault 6 to make up for it. Maybe they will release updates to codex' on .pdf's that will fix some of the secondary weapon choices for other armies too? Yeah right...
I play both Mech Eldar and vehicle heavy Dark Angels, and I can't say I mind this all too much. Eldar get reduced to used Shuriken Catapults instead of Cannons on the hull, so what? I'll have to remodel/repaint my Wave Serpents and Falcons, but whatever. Besides, Mech Eldar is already crazy good, and could use a little help. (As for that rumoured Skimmer-nerf, from what I've heard it's actually pretty much a buff for Eldar)
As for my Dark Angels, I love the Predator but to be honest, any one who is running his Predator around guns blazing is gonna get it blown sky high. You hole up somewhere good and keep firing. Especially now where Preds won't be scoring units, they really won't need to move and fire. Or heres a novel concept: Just take the Predator without the sponsons.
Powerfists getting nerfed is a little sad, but I suppose it's fluffier to have power weapons in squads instead of every sergeant ever to have a 'fist.
Ultimately, I will buy this book and play by 5th edition rules. They're already shaping up to be much better than the brokenness that was 3.5/4th and if you want to stick to outdated 4th edition, well, look forwards to having no one to play at your local hobby store. I know I won't be going back to 4th.
Also, posting anonymous to spite bizdakka. =P
if the redeemer is as powerful as rumours suggest, you WILL be happy that they dropped the strengths versus moves.
and form charge reaction rumours I heard, it will be things like, counter charge (if you have the skill) flee, stand and shoot, and similar to fantasy.
This is actually a nice way to show IGs blasting away at charging enemies rather than standing in place to get swallowed in hand to hand against everyone.
It will help your troops if you know they may take a flamer hit or two on the way in to combat.
Of course, that is al rumour and speculation.
Actually, Mech Eldar are now completely screwed. Your "fast" movement is now only 18", falcons can only shoot one gun if they move, and your 200 point 12 armored skimmers simply get a 5+ cover save, not glancing only. Eldar can still be nasty has hell, but don't expect to see Mech Eldar stay anywhere as near as good as it is now.
Really, I don't know what they hell they were thinking with these 5th edition changes. All the armies out there that are overpowered now are only getting nastier! (with the exception of mech tau and eldar). Let's see, Orks already are overpowered, so what do they do? Hell, give them the ability to run on the first turn! Hello guaranteed 2nd turn CC. Tyranid Nidzilla getting you down? Well, don't worry, they'll be running at you too now - suddenly Carnifexes are almost as fast as gaunts! Add to this that you're getting even less attacks with your overpriced power fist than before and you can kiss your ass goodbye if you play Marines or Chaos.
Really, the only change with 5th I see that makes any sense is getting rid of entanglement/emergency disembarking for vehicles. Everything else just seems like crap to me.
AWESOME AWESOME AWESOME!
It totally changes the old lame scenarie with "my S3 dudes are assaulted by a dreadnought, so i cant hurt him, or do anything at all"
Ramming, assault responces, more realistik LOS/coversaves...Its going to be awesome!
ps. BOLS FTW!
People seem to be interpreting the charge reaction as a move away it may be as simple as univeral counter charge allowing 6in of move on the part of the defender.
@ joseph and Chaosgerbil
Thanks for your explanations. I did know the restrictions for primary and defensive weapons during moving, but I just didn't realize, that it was based on weapons strength (well.. with only synchronized bolters as defensive weapons at the moment I never had to think about this, hehe)
5th Edition is solidifying the domination of Monstrous Creature-based armies due to Fist-nerf plus MCs being able to move and shoot better than vehicles (two heavy weapons instead of one). I always wondered what my first Xeno army would be-- well, Tyranids here I come...
Being Black Templars I have not objections to the S4 change. Still get to fire all of my weapons on my LRC while moving 6" (melta, bolters + Assault Cannon w/ Machine spirit)
The PF thing is a bit annoyning as I have recently have made some charactrs with a PF and PW so they can switch weapons depending on initative advantages!
Actually, if anything Mech Eldar have gotten better over all. So fast vehicles are now only 18", we have the additional 12" move from Star Engines, thus far outdistancing everything ever with the new 30" move being the fastest any non-flyer/titan can pull and Eldar exclusive.
We also have the new damage table and Armour 12. This means, even a Strength 10 hit has a 1/3 chance of doing basically nothing, as a glance cannot destroy a vehicle under 5th edition (and we have vectored engines, so immobilized results are just funny) then we have a 1/3 chance of ignoring any hit on top of that for moving 6"+ and then finally, once you actually hit us, you roll on two dice for the holofields and pick the lowest, and vehicle wrecked/explodes now only makes up 1/3 of the chart, so unless you're packing AP 1 weapons we're actually harder to kill now. This of course only matters if your shots are hitting, and unless you're MEQ there's another 1/2 chance you'll be unable to dent Eldar Skimmers. I won't even bother getting into Energy Fields.
Also, if the rumours about actual LoS and not being able to shoot through your own units are true, you'll be bringing your front line against Mech Eldar and nothing else.
Sorry, but I think Mechdar is around to stay.
I find it quite funny, how you take a possible new rule (maximum movement of fast vehicles down to 18"), and then combine this with a whole bunch of existing 4th edition rules assuming that _anything else_ stays just the way it is...
Do you really think, that the few leaked/rumored changes are going to be the only difference to 4th edition?
I say: lets wait until we know the complete rules before we speculate about who benefits and who suffers from 5th ed. rules.
Sorry, not buying that Mech Eldar got better. Try rolling some dice with the new damage table and you'll see how quickly they die now.
Before, Eldar skimmers basically didn't die. With the appropriate (and basically requisite) upgrades, you only had glancing hits and either of the two dice for the damage of a 1-3 only caused a glance. Basically, if you wanted to kill a Eldar skimmer you needed 2 6's!!! Sure, glances won't kill a vehicle, but you're going to be able to pen the hell out of eldar skimmers with basically everything out there. I don't think your 5+ cover save is going to save your 235 point falcon.
What I really feel sorry for is Tau Mech armies. Tau vehicles are designed around having all those S5 guns on their tanks. With 5th ed. they've lost a huge amount of their fire power and are easier to kill than ever before. CC armies will definitely be dominating 5th edition; I dare to even think of an army that can take out Orks with the new rules...
Well personally, I'm basing the idea that "charge reactions" involves movement on the fact that our little spoilers don't call it "charge reaction at all, but rather a "response move".
Since I don't go elsewhere for spoilers, please enlighten us if BoLS misquoted the actual rumor
Psyched for 5th!
- Salvage
I like that vehicles are getting cover saves, which makes the rule set more consistent.
Instead of the S4 defensive weapons, it'd make a lot more sense to limit based on weapon type. For example:
Stand Still: All heavy or 1 ordnance
Move some: One heavy and all assault, all rapid fire fire twice to 12 inches
Move a lot: One assault or one rapid fire to 12 inches
Response Moves seem like an interesting way to make uber cc units more weak. If like WHFB You try to assault me. I run away. You either catch me and wipe me out or I get away. Either way you are open for shooting in my next shooting phase. Just make sure you units are not to tightly packed such that he can get to another unit.
This could be interesting - still waiting to see what actually changes before I judge.
And the dual powerfists means I can dig out some of the ancient minis from Rogue Trader with twin fists, and conversions of Orrus gangers.
So wait, a Leman russ has to choose 1 of its weapons? Heavy Bolter sponsons now = useless.
UNLESS they re-work how sponsons work. It never made sense that they had to fire at the same target as the tank.
And as a BA player, that charge reaction scares me. I mean, I have tons of assault troops. Lets say now I charge and some sort of reaction pulls them one inch out of my range. I am now in the open, no cover, and everything it shooting at me.
They work in fantasy because only a very limited number of units can shoot. In 40k, how may squads get pummled the turn after they win a combat, just so they don't charge again. Now imagine that happenening before you ever get the charge.
New weapon
Nerf Gun Rg:Unl S:10 AP:1 *Foam Ammo
Rules: Nerf guns do not effect a unit as normal, instead they attack a units rules by 1/2 their stats and tripling their points costs.
Foam Ammo: Claimed it can never hurt anyone. Sticks around untill is looses its "Suck"tion. New "Suck"tion then needed.
It seems like another unimaginative knee-jerk reaction
What a perfect description of most of the posters here! Let's wait and see what the whole rulebook says, shall we?
Not psyched for 5th!
- Anonymous
The response move to being charged allows the unit being charged to move its models into the combat against the chargers.
The response move to being charged allows the unit being charged to move its models into the combat against the chargers.
Sounds like Counterattack. With changes to wound allocation and zone clearing close combat may be significantly different/
So, could my IG counter attack.... backwards?
Sounds like Counterattack. With changes to wound allocation and zone clearing close combat may be significantly different/
Also, I am given to believe that Counterattack grants a +1 on the response charge now.
+1 attacks, that is. (too bad I can't edit)
Even if the dreaded Strength 4 defensive weapon thing is true, vehicles should still be able to fire their main gun on the move.. So a Chimera, overpriced as it is, caould still fire its multi-laser and passenger fired lasguns with no problem.
This will hurt tanks with sponsons the most (like Russes and Preds) Tau vehicles, Ork vehicles, and probably a few others. I really really hope something will be in the rules to make this change make sense.
Hate it that they still leave the def. weapon str 4 in it, what points does it have no for arming tanks with sponsons weapons, I hope the rules for vehicles are changed to enables tanks to fire more on the move otherwise were back to the pillboxes from 3rd, oh well I can still houserule this one.
ITT: Lots of people who haven't seen the complete 5th edition rule book bitch and moan. Shut up and wait until the entire book comes out, stop taking rumors of 5th edition rules and making stupid scenarios with 4th edition rules. Other things will change. Grow up.
"Lots of people who haven't seen the complete 5th edition rule book bitch and moan."
ITT: people who don't realize that 95% of the rules rumors for codex's and core rules have turned out to be true, and don't realize what a huge impact this has on many existing armies that don't need nerfing.
i think that the new "troops (infantry units) count as the only scoring units sucks! As this ruins the ravenwing army list and makes it virtualy unviable for tournament play unless they say that dark angels have a special rule allowing it in a faq.
I think it is obvious that many of the leaked rules were made to be ridiculous just so that people would focus their attention. If you get a vast majority of the people talking about tiny leaked bits so ahead of time then you will have a much more positive view of 5th edition when it comes out (not to mention the hordes of people buying the book just for verification).
Otherwise, I believe this may be the greatest event of "obvious troll is obvious" ever.
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