So we have the rulebook and have been tearing it apart looking for all the major changes. Its easy to overlook a lot of the little minor changes that are stuffed in there. Here are some cool little nuggets I've uncovered so far that could be game-changing but are easily missed:
1) Permanently immobile units kept in reserve, arrive via deep strike (p.94)
2) DELETED BY THE INQUISITION
3) Vehicle mounted barrage weapons may always elect to fire in direct-fire mode at targets in LoS, allowing firing on the move. (p.58)
4) Vehicle mounted weapons may pivot upwards a max of 45 degrees (p.59)
5) When firing at vehicle squadrons, determine all hits using the facing of the closest vehicle (p.64)
6) Infiltration is now performed by unit, not by FOC slot (p.75)
7) Attacks resolved against mixed Toughness units now use the higher Toughness if the squad is exactly 50/50 (p.19)
8) Attacks resolved against mixed Weapon Skill units now use the higher Weapon Skill if the squad is exactly 50/50 (p.37)
9) No more -1 Ld modifiers for units making morale tests when under 1/2 strength (p.44)
10) Passengers in vehicles may only fire out of if it is moving at Combat Speed (o-6") (p.66)
~There are a lot of interesting things in there. #3 means move and fire Whirlwinds are back. #6 takes a lot of power away from DCAs and Light Infantry IG Platoons. #10 makes the 12" Rhino double plasma drivebys a thing of the past. What cool stuff have you guys uncovered? Lets hear your opinion on these and any other changes you discovered.
112 comments:
"Defensive grenades" being used against vehicles
Now maybe I missed this somewhere but I can't find any reference to open topped vehicles with 3+ armour passengers no longer counting as open-topped...
...and now since it doesn't seem to have been bought up yet and Im possibly the most un-analy retentive 40K player I know, i've got this nervous feeling it wasn't in last edition either.
Point 2 is wrong. The sentence can easily be missunderstood.
Look at the Assault phase rules on page 33. There are three parts to the assault phase:
1) Move Assaulting Units
2) Defenders React
3) Resolve Combats
Now, the bullet points in the multiple combat rules states:
"Models that were engaged with just one of the enemy units at the beginning of the combat (before any model attacked) must attack that unit.
Models that were engaged with more than one enemy unit at the beginning of the combat (before any model attacked) may split their attacks freely between those units. Declare how they are splitting their attacks immediately before rolling to hit."
"Combats" take place after all assault moves have been completed and defenders have reacted. *AT THAT POINT* is when you follow the bullet point rules.
As to 'why' the bullet point rules are written that way, the answer is simple if you look at the diagram on that page (although not perfectly clear in the text):
If a model starts the combat (after all assault moves are done) in base contact with one enemy unit, it MUST attack *that* unit. If the model in base contact is killed before that model gets to strike, his blows must still be directed at that original unit and not at another enemy unit that he is also engaged with.
So if you look at the diagram at the bottom of page 41, look at space marines #2 & 3. Both of them are in base contact with JUST one type of model (the Ork unit for SM #2 and the Grot unit for SM #3, respectively). Even though both are also within 2" of a friendly model who is engaged with both the Orks and the Grots, the diagram text clearly states that they MUST attack the unit they are in base contact with.
The bullet point rules simply make sure that if an enemy model is in base contact at the start of the combat, but is then killed before their opponent gets to swing, that their attacks still have to be directed at the unit they were in base contact with at the start of the combat.
GW did *not* do a perfect job on the rules in this section as they used the term "engaged" in some places where they should have used "base contact", however, when you read the rules in conjunction with the diagram ultimately it is pretty clear.
(from dakka)
I don't know if I missed anything but I couldn't find any restrictions on embarking and disembarking in the same turn. And since you can embark once you get withing 2" of the vehicle I came up with this. If you move 6", hop in a transport 2", drive 12" and hop out 2". This will give a total move of 22". If you run before embarking (or after disembarking) you can will be able to move 23" to 28" inches in one turn.
Is this really possible or have I missread the rules?
Wow, I read that rules section like 5 times, and still mis-interpreted it.
The confusion comes from the "Defender's React" paragraph which is talking about the effects of the a new squad entering an existing assault,
Followed by the "Attacking" section which has nothing to do with new squads entering an existing combat, but can be read that way.
I'll just strike #2... Sorry folks, nothing to see here :)
@ixzion
The first sentence under Embarking and Disembarking:
"...and may not voluntarily both embark and disembark in the same player turn."
Aha! I know I had missed something. But it's good you can't embark and disembark. It would be weird otherwise.
@ixzion: try reading the first sentence in the section "Embarking and Disembarking" on page 66. It is interesting though that the unit can move 6", embark 2", and then the tank can move its full 12" afterward, giving the unit a total move of 20" (though they'll be inside a tank at the end of that). I can't remember if it worked like that in 4th ed, but I certainly don't recall ever playing that way.
@dwane dibbly: I could be wrong, but I don't think there was any such rule in 4th edition. If you look in the space marine codex, it simply never calls the land speeder open-topped at all, nor does it mention counting a rhino as open-topped if the top hatch it opened. I think the only time that rule ever came into play was with Imperial Guard, in which case the rule is probably found in that codex somewhere.
I find it odd that you can now provide your opponent a cover save by shooting out of more than 2" of area terrain. (page 22)
I think it's interesting that a unit of multi-wound models can be kept alive longer by making as many models as possible different, due to the rules for spreading out wounds (page 26)
You can now wipe units out by assaulting them while they're falling back, which will be powerful with any leadership-reducing abilities (Souless special rule, Psychic Screams, etc) (page 46)
Walkers can no longer fire two weapons, but all their weapons. This is the opposite of rumors that walkers would only be allowed to fire one weapon, and it makes things like havoc launchers and hunter-killer missiles more attractive options for walkers. (page 72)
The rules for artillery are just... bizarre. (page 55)
In vehicle squadrons, immobilized results count as destroyed - wrecked, while stunned results count as shaken. (page 64)
Passengers in a vehicle may not shoot out if the vehicle is stunned or shaken, putting the final nail in the coffin of the drive-by squad. (page 67)
Fast vehicles (that aren't skimmers) can only move 18" now. (page 70)
Feel no Pain is allowed if the AP of the weapon negates the model's armour save, but not if the AP of the weapon is 1 or 2 (i.e. would negate any armour save). (page 75)
Turbo-boost has become a 3+ cover save, instead of turning the model's save into an invuln. (page 76)
Those are the ones that surprised me most (other than completely new rules, like ramming).
Charging at an enemy unit in cover makes you I1, instead of them I10. Assault grenades cancel the I1 - so my Stikkbomma Boyz charging Marines in cover are effectively no different from regular Slugga Boyz in that they'll still strike after the Marines. What a waste of points...
@Chris
"Stikkbomma Boyz" ?
Is there still such a unit?
(I shouldn't read this site at work, so far from my Codexs and rulebooks)
Someone else has noticed that now all the jump infantry can enter in deep strike?
My favourite are MegaArmor Nobz with Claw and stickkbommaz. Now you always strike with special weapon you have. SO what`s the point? 0.o
Apart of that - rerolls to hit for preferredenemy and reroll for poisoned weapon if the T of the target is equal or less than S of th emodel
@ Dwayne Dibbly
It's an option for the generic Troops choice 'Ork Boyz'. Give the entire mob Stikkbommz for a small points increase per model. Essentially the same as your old Stikkbomma Boyz except they don't have kraks.
@ Wulfenstain
"reroll for poisoned weapon if the T of the target is equal or less than S of th emodel"
Yeah, Painboyz are eviler than ever before now.
Any1 seen the rules about rapid fire weapons?
may move 6inches and fire 2 shots up to 12 inches away
as opposed to moving and only being able to fire one shot up to 12 inches
What I noticed is that characters now auto join a unit when within 2". So no longer can you surround an independant character base 2 base with a seperate unit to prevent a charge because there is another unit within 1"that cannot be charged. My nids will forever be greatfull of that change.
Umm you've always been able to move 6" and fire two shots with rapid fire weapons..
@anon- "Any1 seen the rules about rapid fire weapons?
may move 6inches and fire 2 shots up to 12 inches away
as opposed to moving and only being able to fire one shot up to 12 inches"
I'm pretty sure that was the same as 4th edition. . .
Hmm my bad then, haha been playing for years with my mates that if you move you can only fire one shot with rapid fire weapons
Twas even the wording in the leaked 5ed PDF in the section that needed to be changed.
I think you've been playing third edition rapid fire rules. Back then Rapid fire had one 12" shot on the move and either two 12" shots or 1 24" shot if stationary. Took me ages to notice that changed in 4th lol
Barrage weapons which land with the circle on a vehicle are automatically against the side armour (representing the "top armour")
It seems to me that snipers dont hit on 2+ anymore but just follow the shooters bs.
p.24 under "Remove Casualties":
"Note that any model in the target unit can be hit, wounded, and taken off as a casualty, even models that are completely out of sight or out of range of all the firers."
So e.g. if you have a unit of 30 ork boyz, and 29 of them are completely out of LOS and out of range, but one single boy just happens to be in range & LOS, it's treated as exactly the same as if ALL 30 boyz are in range and LOS. Yipe.
I think I remember that "power armor negates opened top" rule too.
And from the rulebook, not the marine dex. Makes little difference for SM if they're rhinos never count as OT anyhow, but meganobz are gonna dislike that.
7) Attacks resolved against mixed Toughness units now use the higher Toughness if the squad is exactly 50/50 (p.19)
Yes but as soon as a Tomb Spider uses its artificer rule to make a base of Scarabs (with 3 wounds as opposed to its own 2 wounds), You go with the majority toughness for the unit, i.e.: toughness 3. That means a toughness 3 monsterous creature, DON'T EVER, EVER DO THAT, I lost 2 in one turn the other night because of this. (one in HTH, the other insta-killed by a plasma cannon)
I'm sure that that 'artificer' will be omitted in the new codex, until then, just grab your black permanent markers and remove that paragraph from the Tomb spider entry!
That's the only glaring moment of horror that I've come across thus far.
-Corey-
Now with point #10, this does not apply to fast transports like ork trukks. Open topped can fire in any direction and one main weapon and all defensive weapons can be fired at crusing speed. So it looks like one big shoota and all of the shootas or pistols are doing a drive by.
Or, being that dedicated transports are now taxis, how about 12 burna boyz doing 13' flaming drive by's!
The 3+ Armour save thing for OT vehicles, wasn't a rulebook issue, it was listed in the units it happened in. AFAIK it was only Land Speeders and Immolators, and they said they don't count as Open topped as the passengers were wearing 'Power Armour' not that they have a 3+ save.
I'm a bit puzzled that you no longer chuck out a range guess for your barrage weapons. Looks like they just got far, far more accurate.
Or were we playing it wrong when, for years, we said "I fire.. 32" that direction" as a "Guess"?
"Yes but as soon as a Tomb Spider uses its artificer rule to make a base of Scarabs (with 3 wounds as opposed to its own 2 wounds), You go with the majority toughness for the unit, i.e.: toughness 3. That means a toughness 3 monsterous creature, DON'T EVER, EVER DO THAT, I lost 2 in one turn the other night because of this. (one in HTH, the other insta-killed by a plasma cannon)"
Am I missing something, but this would use the spyder toughness of 6 if only 1 scarab base was made. Not the 3 as per the 4t rule.
Wounds don't count as models, so 1 spyder and one scarab made are toughness 6. Right?
"I'm a bit puzzled that you no longer chuck out a range guess for your barrage weapons. Looks like they just got far, far more accurate.
Or were we playing it wrong when, for years, we said "I fire.. 32" that direction" as a "Guess"?"
Jake,
Like the rapid fire confusion above, this is also a 3rd Ed. rule.
right! spider+1 scarab is T6.
What I noticed is that:
Now only vehicle squadrons have a 4" coherency. Bikes/jetbikes only have 2" in 5th Ed. not 4" like in 4th Ed. anymore.
No more Moral-tests for 25% casualties due to shooting.
And the whole skimmers/jetbikes hover over woods.. is gone.
@Melevon.
Yes, you still take morale checks for 25% shooting casualties. Page 44: "A unit losing 25% or more of its models during a single phase must pass a Morale check at the end of that phase, or else it will fall back. Do not count casualties caused by close combat attacks, as they are covered later..."
Melevon:
How do you figure that Bikes had a 4" coherency in 4th?
"for years, we said "I fire.. 32" that direction" as a "Guess"?"
HAHA, my gaming group played like that for some time before someone realized our error.
sniper rifles dont hit on two's anymore they use ballistic skill
Only skimmers moving flat out are wrecked on an immobilized damage result.
This will save my Tau armor a lot of trouble.
Bikes/jetbikes never had 4" coherency. That was only ever vehicle squadrons.
For the tomb spyder, not only is the unit T6 with 1 scarab, but even if you make 2+, and the unit becomes T3 for the purposes of rolling to-wound, the tomb spyder will still never be insta-killed by high-strength weapons. Which weapons (if any) are strong enough to insta-kill is completely separate from rolling to-wound, and always goes by each model's base toughness.
Also, responding to that last post before mine (he got in there while I was typing), it's true that they won't crash, but they also don't get the 4+ cover save. Basically, instead of making it a no-brainer to move 6+ inches, shoot, and only be glanced (but crash upon immobilization), they have changed it to a choice between the following:
-move a little, shoot, take what you get from shooting
-move a lot, don't shoot, only be glanced, but crash on immobilization
"-move a little, shoot, take what you get from shooting
-move a lot, don't shoot, only be glanced, but crash on immobilization"
Unless it's a Tau skimmer armed with a multitracker which allows it to fire as if it were a fast vehicle. -Move a lot, shoot a lot.
"Permanently immobile units in reserve enter via DS"
An example of a permanently immobile unit?
What strikes me about your Gem #10 (embarked troops may only fire if the vehicle moved at Combat Speed -- 6" or less), is that you can still move a transport vehicle much farther -- up to 12", at least -- and then you can disembark the troops and they then get to fire.
Wierd, eh? Apparently a vehicle can move too quickly for the embarked troops to draw a bead, but (almost) no matter how fast their vehicle moves, there's plenty of time for them to hustle out, get organized, and then open fire.
Bizarre. This will have a huge impact on mech Tau players who like gun drones on their vehicles....
@anon
Now with point #10, this does not apply to fast transports like ork trukks.
I'd like to know where you found that. Are you are making the assumption that a mounted squad counts as part of the vehicle?
I run Dark Eldar and was disappointed to see that my raider squad drive by looks dead. But would love to see me be wrong.
I think this discussion shows what BoLS mentioned a week ago about everyone should sit down and really read the book. We have already seen 2 people listing rules from 3rd edition as if they still existed in 4th and we are now on 5th. The Guess thing I actually had someone try to make me do in a game about 6 months ago. I had to show him in the rulebook that it did not say anything about the player actually guessing the range.
Turbo Boosters calls out both bikes and jetbikes as not being able to move through difficult terrain while utilizing the special rule.
In the jetbike unit description, it says that "in the movement phase, jetbikes can move over all other models and all terrain freely."
This is a bit of a contradiction, and I would assume will require a FAQ.
Permanently Immobile Vehicle??
Drop Pod, for one.
I´d say Drop Pods and their Chaos Equivalent... but as far as I know, that´s it.
"Bizarre. This will have a huge impact on mech Tau players who like gun drones on their vehicles...."
Not really, per the Tau Empire Codex, Gun Drones on vehicles fire using their own BS as part of the vehicle, in addition to the any other weapons, they are only treated as passengers for the purposes vehicle damage & the fact that you can disembark them.
Turbo Boosters calls out both bikes and jetbikes as not being able to move through difficult terrain while utilizing the special rule.
In the jetbike unit description, it says that "in the movement phase, jetbikes can move over all other models and all terrain freely."
This is a bit of a contradiction, and I would assume will require a FAQ.
Is that the distinction needed as noted above in bold by me? If you turboboost then declare the jetbike are moving over difficult terrain. If you turboboost your jetbikes and say you're going through difficult terrain, well then I guess it's not allowed by the rules--that or you can go ahead and crash.
Permenantly immobile vehicles... How about bunkers, gun placements, tarantulas?
-Ben-
Forgeworld sells a gun emplacement for the earthshaker (basilisk) cannon. I believe it's rules are in imperial Armour 1.
Just don't ask me how they intend to deepstrike something that large onto the board :)
1. Fire points only let one model shoot (as opposed to two in the previous edition). Which also kills the drive by double tap.
2. No more last man standing.
3. Pistols are assault 1.
4. In the new missions anything can be put in reserves for any mission.
5. Hit and run requires an initiative test.
6. Counter assault requires a leadership check.
7. You can fire smoke and still shoot the squad out of the vehicle (as long as it moved at combat speed and was not shaken or stunned in the last round).
"Now with point #10, this does not apply to fast transports like ork trukks."
I just reviewed the rules for both Fast Vehicles & Open Topped Vehicles and there is nothing there that mentions an exception to the rules stating that passengers can only fire weapons if the vehicle moved at Combat Speed (0"-6").
So would have to go with them not being able to do so, unless an FAQ/Errata document changes this.
Where did "And They Shall Know No Fear" go ?? I can't find it anywhere in the USR list. Is this mainstay rule of Space Marines from the very beginnings going to get dropped/replaced ? And what about DA/BA/BTs etc. who now have "a non-existent USR" ...
meanangle
I have talked to Gamesworkshop staff, and asked the same questions about "And They Shall Know No Fear", and they siad even though it is not in the rulebook they still get it only because it is in there codex, even thought it is not in the rulebook.
Basically what i got is, if it is in the codex they get it, no matter what, the codex can overwrite some rules and add new ones
@meanangle They also reprinted the "ATSKNF" in the online faq for the space marine codex
also meanangle go to the FAQ on the gamesworkshop site, and read the space marine FAQ it is there, they still get "And They Shall Know No Fear",hope this helps
Yes, I found that already ... still, it seems a bit weird to me, that a rule that has been a BGB USR as far as my memory stretches suddenly stops appearing there ...
Actually ATSKNF was only a USR for 4th edition. 3rd it was just in the Marine codex.
In addition to DARKWINGs comment, can I point out the Morale test for 25% casualties in any single phase. So does that mean, overheating plasma casualties, dangerous terrain test failures, Perils of the Warp wounds, etc
What happens in 5 Termies deep strike into dangerous terrain lose 2 guys to wounds. If they fail a morale test where do they go - they can't move!
lol people using 3rd edition rules...i forget which page because i have not read it recently says "some models marked with a G as range count as barrage" even in 4th it said that lol
also one cool tihng i found out...from never really looking is that nurgle bikers are T6
that is truly...awesome
also the one thing i hate about 5th is the 4+cover saves....
so for example my basilisk shoots at his tactical squad
there is a sentinel in the general direction...he gets a 4+ cover save
say i take my units of guard and intertwine them...they now get 4+ cover saves
Melevon read the book! 25% shooting takes Morale!
Here are a couple -
units that are falling back autofail virtually all morale test (so you can scoot them an extra 2d6).
you no longer need to be in base to base to sweeping advance and wipe someone out
A number of comments:
1) ATSKNF is now in the Space Marine FAQ
2) You can take morale tests in phase for losing 25% casualites (other than winning CC). So - your in a transport and it is blown up and you lose 25% to the vehicle blowing up - take a morale test.
3) Chosen with Rhino's can now Flank March from a board edge in their Rhino. Hello, 5 Special Weapon in your back flank
Permanently immobile vehicle...Necron Pylon of course.
immobilized skimmers are destroyed if they move at cruising or flat out speeds - only combat speed avoids the destroyed if immobilized result
independent characters can join independent characters?! Was that allowed in 4th?
In the Chaos FAQ just released, two models can fire out of a single fire point. This may be the case with others army types also.
Here's a big one:
Close combats no longer automatically block line of sight!
I'm going to keep checking, but as far as I can tell, this is true.
@patrick I believe skimmers and fast vehicles only get destroyed on a immobilized if they move at flat out speed not cruising speed.
@ferocious
yeah, but true line of sight might block them anyway if the close combat is a tightly packed bunch and you are on the same level. If not, they get 4+ cover anyway.
The scary thing is a Wraithlord might be able to have a sweet shot right over the assault... rend the Wraithlord!!!!
I don't know if this is an exploit or just a regular part of the rules: Now since it is clear that passengers in vehicles measure range / los from the hull of the vehicle, for Ork Burnas in an open topped transport you could put all of your burna templates coming from one spot out of the vehicle. "So, that template touches 5 models, and I have 12 burnas in the transport, so that is 60 hits." Nasty!
I believe that Slow and Purposeful models now strike at I 1 on the charge unless they have grenades, since they count as moving through terrain. At least know they no longer lose an attack, so this is fair. It does make Chaos Spawn even more hideously overpriced at 40 points, but that's just my own pet peeve.
@JohnnyB1969
Yes, that is weird. But, units can run after they deepstrike, so they should also be able to fallback since they "must."
@patrick
Characters could not join each other in 4th, that is new.
@FerociousBeast
I don't think that is true that CC no longer blocks LOS but I will have to check.
@Anon 11:51
For a direct blast, they would get cover for the sentinel in the way, but for a barrage the cover is determined from the center of the blast marker.
The intertwined units granting each other a cover save is clearly an exploit, but I can't see anything in the rules that makes it illegal. I hate that people will be trying to pull this retarded checkerboard maneuver.
Man, overall I like 5th, but GW could have done a better job making everything reasonable, clear and consistent. They should send all rules to the BOLS posting goons for review! We can find the bizarre, the contradictory, and the counter-intuitive... why can't they?
OMFG other models granting coversaves is gonna be insane.
The 100 point imp conscript screen with the rest wearing cameoline cloaks. As a marine player a 3+ coversave on a model under ten points just irks me. Not to mention eldar rangers. *sigh* i guess i'll be feilding two whirlwinds from now on.
@belarius:
"Not really, per the Tau Empire Codex, Gun Drones on vehicles fire using their own BS as part of the vehicle, in addition to the any other weapons, they are only treated as passengers for the purposes vehicle damage & the fact that you can disembark them."
Apparenty you haven't seen the new 5e Tau FAQ:
"Q: Can gun drones mounted on a vehicle still fire if the vehicle is Shaken, Stunned, moved too fast, or isn't allowed to fire its weapons for any other reason?
A: No. Gun Drones mounted on a vehicle may only fire if the vehicle is allowed to fire at least one weapon."
For the tomb spyder, not only is the unit T6 with 1 scarab, but even if you make 2+, and the unit becomes T3 for the purposes of rolling to-wound,
'the tomb spyder will still never be insta-killed by high-strength weapons. Which weapons (if any) are strong enough to insta-kill is completely separate from rolling to-wound, and always goes by each model's base toughness.'
Well THAT'S a lot better!!! Still sucks in HTH though. Oh well, 1st game in 5th, so we probably screwed up a whole lot more than that.
-Corey-
POISONED WEAPONS
If the user of poisoned weapons has a strength equal to or greater than the toughness of the victim, the user gets a re-roll if the to-wound roll is missed.
This is great because until now if the wielder of a poisoned weapon had S4 and the victim had T3 for example, the user only had a 50% chance of wounding on a 4+ because of the poison rules even though they could have wounded on a 3+ if they were allowed to use their strength instead. When S and T were equal, there was no benefit or penalty to having the poisoned weapon, it was like a normal close combat weapon. Now, there's no penalty for say, a Chaos Lord with a poisoned weapon attacking Imperial Guardsmen, Eldar, etc., the re-roll now provides a benefit even when S is equal to or more than T.
Tau Disruption Pods are now hideously overpowered and make them possibly even more durable than Falcons, because they make the tank an Obscured Target to everything 12" or farther away.
One thing that I have noticed is how multiple blast templates are worked out. Before they were resolved individually. It was crap cause a smart player would remove his models after the fist blast such that the other blasts could only hit one or two models. Now you take all hits and add them up then roll to wound, then remove all casualties. I like that a lot, hello Marine Missle launcher/ Plasma cannon dev squads.
-V
Re: Checkerboard screening.
The models in the front rank are completely unscreened, so they don't get a cover save.
Hello, long time reader first time poster. No more vehicle pivoting during firing phase. And if your vehicle pivots to allow passengers in then it counts as moving. I was also curious as to if measurement for embark|disembark was measured from the hull access point or if a ramp allowed the point to be extended. I have had people use this against me and might pose some stupid modeling problems with G.W.A.A.
@ No more vehicle pivoting during firing phase.
In 4th edition pivoting in the Movement Phase counted as movement while pivoting at the start of the Shooting Phase did not. Now, pivoting, only pivoting with no other movement, no longer counts as movement in the Movement Phase, so pivoting in the Shooting Phase is no longer necessary. A vehicle that only pivots in the Movement Phase is considered stationary and can fire all of its weapons if nothing else disallows it.
However, it's important to remember now to pivot during the Movement Phase so that you're facing the correct direction in the Shooting Phase to blast away, otherwise you're out of luck, barring a loose style of game play and a forgiving opponent.
If you fail the Perils of the Warp psyhic test (ie 2 or 12)...you may take an Inv. save, if you save you must reroll it. Ouch!
All IC's have skilled rider and move through cover
@anon
"Re: Checkerboard screening.
The models in the front rank are completely unscreened, so they don't get a cover save."
That may be true in most cases, but the determination according to RAW is if half or more of the target is in cover, so if you have at least two ranks doing the lame checkerboard trick then you someone can make their lame rules-lawyer case for them being in cover.
As a house rule I would suggest that if someone tries this and is stubborn about it, make them pick which squad gets the cover since it makes no sense for them to cover each other equally.
wow so many ppl are confused in this thread its not even worth reading all of it.
O.o
@brass scorpion
I sometimes like to be"that guy" with people who don't use tape measures to move or em\disembark thus breaking the game. how do you see the rule for em/disembark in regards to access point. I am not a power gamer but would like to make sure that i understand the rules, as it is easy to overlook a very defining sentence in the rulebook.
Walkers now have a 45° firing arc, instead of 180°.
That's a huge change for people fielding Walkers (I'm thinking manily Chaos and Marines). You'll need to remember to have your model facing the enemy it's shooting at - this smells like easier rear hits if you ask me.
What else... As pointed out before, squads can Flank in their transports. That's neat.
Deep Striking units can Run on the turn they arrive... Now it is viable to Deepstrike assault troops and not lose them to a template weapon.
Is it just me or are Flamers going the be the real thing in 5th Ed, along with any weapon negating cover saves?
At the top-left of page 19, in one of those italicized examples, they list Ork Gretchin as having Toughness 3. Nothing important, but it made me chuckle.
Those Eldar models by John Shaffer on pgs 226 and 227 are beautiful, I love the way he used the Wood Elf pieces on that guardian squad, and the Farseer is amazing; let a lone those Warp Spiders, they must have taken a long time to get just right
Multiple blasts: IG players will recall that the third mortar shot could scatter from either of the first 2 templates, whereas now it MUST be off the first, though you can drop on top of a template now that the hits are generated after all templates have dropped. Minor, but its one I had to check.
Also, Dawn of War mission, the fact that on turn one, anything not in reserves comes on your board edge caught me by surprise,, I was used to old Escalation where that stuff came in turn 2 and beyond..
typhus is truly the best charachter in warhammer 40k now
in the new 40k FAQ...or in the codex i never really looked that hard but hi weapon i now poisoned...which is cool...BUT AT STR 5!!!!
he gets re rolls to wound against marines!!!!!! with a +d6 force poisoned weapon
to the checkerboard thing...it is not just that
i was playing against an eldar in a game with my guard i was shootin my basilisks and this is what happened
direct shot at your dark reapers...out in the open
ok roll to scatter
direct hit
ok now roll to owund
all wounded
because you have a unit of guardsmen in the general direction..at 5 feet away i get 4+ cover save
so gay a 10 foot shot because guardsmen were 5 feet in the middle but there was 1 conscrip poking out of a piece of terrain in the 45degree arc they get 4+ cover saves............i think that the rules say it has to be OBSCURED not partially covered because that ruins the game in every way shap and form if a person shooting sees 1 dude that 5 dudes get 4+ cover saves....not cool..o wait!!!!!
im an idiot u measure from the gun and the lisk gun is way above the conscript head
goddamnit to hell and beyond
For the shooting through squads and getting cover saves:
If more than half of the the firing unit's models can each see more than half of the target unit's models, unobscured by intervening models/terrain, then target unit is not in cover. One model in the middle of the field doesn't give cover to every unit behind him.
If, for any reason, you are playing a game where Victory Points (page 300) are going to be used, you are better off with an odd number of models in your squad than an even number (as used to be the case in 4th Edition).
@ davidhasselhoss
re: disembarkation and access points
Models still need to be placed within 2 inches of the access points when disembarking. The 2 inches can be measured from the edge of a soldier model's base to the access points on the vehicle, providing quite a bit of flexibility. The picture in the 5th edition rule book is quite a good example, showing models less than 2" from the access points and one that is at the maximum allowable radius to the edge of its base.
Here's a gem that's still just a rumor, but it would be SWEET. The Plastic Thunderhawk rumor is back. I need at least two, one for my Dark Angels and one for my Chaos Marines. Perhaps a third for fourth as I'm planning my own Space Marine chapter too.
Check out this rumor at
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/214678.page;jsessionid=7B705400C906773B942B17FFCD7084FE
Wow.
This thread really shows why so many people have so many issues. People still using 3rd Ed rules for Guess weapons and Rapid fire after 4 years, Not realizing that IC's had Skilled Rider and Move through Cover, etc...
just...wow.
For those pesky units who won't leave the safety of a building we now have the ability to target the building they're in instead of the unit. For purposes of assault or shooting we treat it like a vehicle so we can shake it to prevent the occupants from shooting or we can destroy it forcing them to exit and take wounds if it explodes.
YOU CAN SHOOT THROUGH CLOSE COMBAT
I like that they elaborated on how to resolve D3 rolls. This was an issue that I brought up on another 40K forum about a year ago.
Vehicles that deepstrike count as moving at cruising speed with regards to firing weapons.
Time to deep-strike some Land Speeders with Multi Meltas.
Are the 4th edition Kill Team rules still viable?
Just spotted a MAJOR one: if all exits of a transport are blocked and the unit within is forced to disembark, it may now perform an "Emergency Disembarking" isntead of being destroyed!
The models inside can then be placed anywhere within 2" of the transports (and more than 1" away of the enemy), but may not do anything else for the rest of the player turn...
You now need to almost fully encircle a transport if you wanna trap the guys inside.
Jump Infantry DS will be insane for Devil-Flyrants, and winged Tyranid Warriors are now a viable, albeit expensive, shooters unit.
Preferred Enemy is also huge for Stealer Shock lists now. With cover saves coming out of the woodwork now, I'm considering dropping extended carapaces on my Stealers in favor of Feeder Tendrils and Scything Talons. Lictors are viable now rather than being add-ons. Conferring that preferred enemy to a big swarm of hormogaunts is going to be a staple, not to mention the reserves re-roll. A brood lord with feeder tendrils and a retinue with acid maw will be standard.
Take a waveserpent, run it flat out at 24", add star engines for another 12" now smash it into that annoying backboard whirlwind ruining your Eldar's game for a 36" move Strength 15 hit into the side armor.
Huh, here's an interesting one; units falling back can still shoot, though of course they count as moving. You may not necessarily be able to ignore any half-strength unit fleeing now (though they still can't regroup once below 1/2 strength under normal circumstances).
err anon 9:51
Falling back units could shoot in previous editions too, thats not new...
most. disfunctional. convo. ever.
Moving 36" to ram a vehicle is a foolish option. Yes you will penetrate it, but you will also suffer a penetrating hit yourself. And as only 5+ results in a vehicle destroyed, it probably wasn't worth losing the ramming vehicle (assuming it survived it would be very exposed).
1) Deepstriking into difficult now forces a dangerous terrain check. Dangerous terrain check wounds can not be saved by armor or cover, but it doesn't mention invulnerable saves.
2) Vehicle squadrons - vehicles in the squadron do not block LOS from other vehicles in the squadron.
3) Consolidation is always a d6 now, no more 3".
4) Vehicle Annihilated is no longer there. No more killing the full squad of Grey Knight Termies inside the land raider with one shot (boy was he upset when I did that.)
5) Monoliths are much tougher than most realize, they can not be killed by a glancing hit, at all. In order to kill with a glancing you have to destroy all weapons and immobilize, but since you can't disable the particle whip, you have to penetrate to destroy.
6) Jetbikes can stop on top of impassable terrain, but must take dangerous terrain tests to do so. Looks like the destroyer wings are going to be staying down where people can assault them.
7) In the assault phase, you can move within 1" of a enemy model that you aren't assaulting, just can't touch it. But this means no more of those situations that you couldn't assault because the opponent was too close to a different unit (only assaulting with one model so could only declare against one target, terrain issues, etc.)
Question on "Run"
In the text it refers to "Units"
Vehicles are "Units"
So ... Vehicles can Run??
I do not think so..
Walkers are vehicles that can run
Not so much a 5th edition gem, but a 5th edition whoopsy. pg 297 of the new rulebook shows the reference sheet for Dark Eldar with the headings all messed up. For example Range= Blaster, Strength= 12", AP= 8, Type=2
@ ulthanesh
Star engines are used within the shooting phase, only movement phase counts i think
So max strength hit with a falcon you can get will be 11
Armour 12 = 2
Tank = 1
24 " move = 8
3rd edition rapid fire kid ;)
Here is one for you from the Building Section.
1) Buildings count as vehicles.
2) Models in buildings can't be shot by Non-template weapons.
3) Two models may fire from each Fire Point
4) Buildings w/Parapets (armoured roof/balcony) allow any # of units in the building to shoot from the Parapet.
5) And this is the Kicker... If ANY models from the unit are placed on the the parapet the the ENTIRE Building counts as open topped & add +1 to the damage roll.
I can see that a large quantity of models on the roof may put undo stress on the structure but a single grot can increases the damage roll by 1 for the WHOLE building???
+1 for the Parapet of course! Make it impassable if destroyed. Heck throw in an auto glance on the lower level.
First and most awesome thing i have found for Tau in regards to the new rules:
The entry in the rule book states that Jet pack units count as having the 'relentless' special rule. This lets them fire both rapid fire and heavy weapons and move/assault in the same turn.
Firstly, this means that a Stealthsuit model with a markerlight may fire their markerlight after moving, making the upgrade very useful on a stealth team.
Second, any markerlight drones taken alongside Xv8 or Xv15/25 battlesuits can also move and fire their markerlights - they count as the same unit type as their owner, so with xv8 and xv15/25 suits they count as jump infantry (jet paks).
The relentless rule also allows the forgeworld Xv81 and Xv84 battlesuits to move and fire their smart missiles or markerlight respectively.
Third, as all jump infantry can now deep strike if the mission permits, vespid can deep strike, which will get them closer to the enemy much faster than before. Thanks to their skilled flyer ability, they can deep strike into terrain and hopefully not die.
Also, deep striking is now open to Commander shadowsun, who, despite being in a battlesuit with a jet pack, did not actually have the ability to deep strike - if don't believe me read the wording as to what abilties her suit gives her - she did not actually have the option to deep strike.
Fourth, the railgun submunition round and Airburst fragmentation launcher are both affected by the new rules for blast, so infantry squads are now slightly less open to submunition rounds off hammerheads.
Finally, disruption pods give you a 4+ cover save from any shooting attacks origination from more than 12" away.
Can a Chaos Defiler walk 6" and fire its Ordnance and Reaper cannon, because a walker does not have gunners.
"Can a Chaos Defiler walk 6" and fire its Ordnance and Reaper cannon, because a walker does not have gunners."
No.
Read the rule for shooting ordinance....now read for walkers....
Walkers shoot as stationary vehicles. So can shoot ordinance or weapons, not both.
If they could they are broken.
RELEASE DATES, SPACE MARINES
-Space Marine Spearhead $244, September 20
-Space Marine Codex $25, Oct. 4
-Drop Pod $30, Oct. 4
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