Hi all,
The Fly Lords have been puttering right along with our 5th edition revamp project. Next up on the chopping block is Lords of Battle. Its been 8 months since we put out the last version of our Apocalypse datasheet book and in that time, lots of additional datasheets and Apocalypse books have been released.
This gives us the opportunity to create a bunch more sheets, work in feedback from you our readers, and overhaul many of our older designs with 5th edition and several dozen more Apocalypse games under our belts.
Here is a look at the cover, current table of contents, and a sample new sheet, the devastating Chaos Harbinger Heavy Bomber.
~As usual, comments and feedback are welcome, but I do want to open the designer's chair up to you guys again. As you can see in the table of contents I've putting in a set of Knight formations for the 3 major races (Imperial Knight Household, Eldar Exodite Knight Host, Ork Digga Mob). I did this because they are fairly small models and its very possible to collect or scratchbuilt a small collection of them (the formation is 3-5 knights). What I want to hear from you guys is thoughts on how you would give these 3 datasheets a related but differing set of special rules and strategic assets so they feel broadly similar on the tabletop, but reflect the unique character of their respective races. The mike is open guys, lets hear it.
52 comments:
I can't wait to see the update!
As a side note, are the front mounted ac's on the harbinger also AA mounted as well?
Sweet! can't wait to see all the new datasheets you guys have cooked up.
IMPERIAL KNIGHTS - All Knights within 18" of the Suzerain (Command Knight) gain the Primary Weapon benefit to all of their weapons. The Command Knight's retinue keeps all weaponry properly blessed and well-tuned to the commander's call.
ELDAR KNIGHTS - All Knights within 18" of the Clan Elder (Command Knight) may move in the assault phase whether or not they are assaulting an enemy. They are subject to all normal movement rules and restrictions during this move. The Elder's expertise in the art of war provides the Knights with superior tactical maneuverability.
DIGGA MOB - All Digga Stompas within 18" of the Boss Digga may ignore any immobilize result on a 4+. The veritable horde of grot oilers and meks swarming the digga mob easily handle quick fixes under fire, so long as da bossmek is givvin' da orderz!
In addition, each formation grants the following strategic asset:
IMPERIAL: The Imperial player gains the Precision Strike asset that can benefit any allied forces.
ELDAR: Formation Knights )only) gain the Flank March ability.
ORK: Formation Diggas benefit from the Camouflage ability if they did not move in their first turn. (that's no junkyard/dung pile, it's a Robo!)
By the way, precision strike needs to be upgraded to "Gains BS 5 against" so that ordnance and blast weapons also gain some benefit per V5 rules. Old Apocalypse just says "hits on 2+" which doesn't help 2/3 of the relevant weaponry out on the field. . .
I especially like how the preview page has a typo ;)
That aside, keep up the good work guys!
I'm waiting for next update. Could you change Eldar Titans because they are just too weak. Have you ever compared them to Warlord titan from GW? Warlock titan isn't as tough, can't project as much firepower at 'titan' range and isn't too fast at last. I believe that you will react and make some changes.
Sorry to be ridiculously nerdy but I thought GW had phased out Tempest tanks? I mean I'm not complaining it just feels a little funny seeing them turn up on a 40K scale when they're no longer in Epic. I think they were aiming at making the Eldar vehicles look less human and tank-like hence bringing in slightly more organic vehicles like the Falcon and Wave Serpent. The Tempest always reminded me of a "normal" tank that hovered... But hey, your book, your time spent and I look forward to giving it a once over!
Necrons need something new as well.
Hmm maybe like some kind of huge scarab construct. I'm thinking of kind of like when in a cartoon a swarm of bees goes about in a big group and forms hammers and anvils an stuff out of its constituent parts.
But scarier. Obviously. Give it a larger modified tomb spider as the brain / comtrol node and then a mass of scarabs.
Or maybe a small slaved sun (i heard a rumour a long time ago that that was going to be the necs equivalent of a titan in epic but dont know how true that was)
frootbat.
I hope in these new rules the Phantom receives a upgrade to its Missile Launchers, as currently they are rather weak compaired to other Titan's secondary weapons
You guys misspelled "villains" in the TOC.
Pet peeve :) Otherwise it's pretty impressive, as usual from you. Thumbs up and eagerly waiting.
Wow, great that some of my thought got into the book like the Slaanesh Knight and the Contagion of Nurgle. But still I would like to see the Imperator Titan in your book, that is an icon of history and still I hope to put it into service in downsize one time ;)
For the Tempest, I really like it to see the old Eldar designs. And there is no reason for not being in this book, GW has abandoned much of the vehicles from old epic but that doesn't mean that we are not allowed to play withem ;)
Again thanks to the flylords for all they work and providing us with some of the coolest datasheets since a long time (until now only one sheet was also published by GW (reaver) - where do they know which sheets aren't coming out *g*)
I want to see Ordinatus Krieg (remembering one beutiful conversed Epic model*)! Or other super-heavy long range cannon (Earthshaker barrel lenght compared to Bombard calibre)
http://www.epic40k.co.uk/lib/comp/epicomp06/unit37b.jpg
also Ragnarok Heavy tank anyone?
You know, since the plastic Pods are coming soon, we need Drop Pod Sisters (Ordo Hereticus Strike Force) to be upgraded to 5Ed next... I will try to use that force as an alternative to WH army, instead of my Necrons which are taking time off from 40K now...
;)
Looks pretty cool.
Once this is done can you do a CSM, DA and BA codex? :-)
If you ever update this again, I request rules for the other Knight variants - the Castellan, the Crusader, the Lancer, the Errant.
I'm very happy to see Lords of Battle revisited and updated from you guys. I use this as my bible when playing apocalypse. Thanks guys.
Hi Guys,
alltimes i was a great fan of your web page and your great ideas for new champaigns and play aids but know i must realsize that i cant download the new Lords of Battle article without using the digg ability. Why you hav change the free dwonlaod ability? In my mind its ab bad change of download ability if i must register on a web page where i dont know for what reason they`ll ned my personal dates. In this way i hope that you reaset the download ability for everybody.
regards William
When you put this up please indicate which ones are updated from the old version so we don't have to print out the entire book. Awesome work guys.
I'd like to see the Necron Spider Titan or whater it's called. The one that's suppossed to be like a giant Tomb Spider.
anon@8:37
When I go to download, it doesn;t ask me to sign up. What site does it take you to, box.net?
There is no registration or anything else required to download our books. I'm in the process of moving over all of our stuff from our old hosting provider to box.net, but they dont require anything either.
As for the comments, keep em coming. I'm liking the direction some of you are going with the Knight formations. By the way, you guys make the best proofreaders ever :)
The cannon of khorne is the only thing didn't like from the last lords of battle. I felt that it costway too much for what it did, especially considering theres a good chance it could just blow itself up. If you make the blast template bigger or give it another structure point I think its cost would be justified.
mxb545,
I don't think the Cannon of Khorne is that bad. It will still do a fair amount of damage, especialy with the new blast rules, and especialy if you field a few (formation?). Also, the new glancing hit rules combined with daemonic possession means that in most cases it will be safe from damaging itself, and can only immoblise itself, or wreck its gun (after which just you can still ram, BFTBG!). But hey, there's no playing it safe when playing Khorne!
Looking at these and the datasheets on the GW site, these all go perfectly with my in-progress Khornate Iron Warriors army! I'm even thinking of using Warhammer Chaos Hellcannons to represent the Cannons of Khorne!
The phantom/warlock titans (and perhaps others) need to be reduced in price.
When the Reaver from FW came out, the rules were nearly identical to the BoLS rules, yet was something like 83% of the cost of the BoLS version.
My opponents, when confronted with this evidence have allowed me to play with my phantom at 1666 pts.
@Anonymous:
"I especially like how the preview page has a typo ;)"
That's how you can tell it's a genuine Bell of Lost Souls (tm) product!
With the ork gargants you should really make a titan-closecombat weapon mandatory and just incorporate a smaller variable weapon system into the arm.
What about doing a mek gargant? I know there is a mek stompa but there is a rather cool epic model you could use.
I kind of want to use that bomber and just cruise over and drop all 48 bombs at the same time, as early in the game as possible.
What's with the photo, though? Is that just a blown-up and photoshopped picture of an Epic model or something? Not to sound like a total jerk, but it looks kind of bad.
Imperial Bunker fortress
now that intact buildings are considered "transports" how about a full fledged fortress. A Magieot-line styled complex would be nice.
Hi,
very great idea !
i wait your new Lords of Battle for play with my knights paladin houshold (and my future warden and lancer !!!)
please if you can give some rules for make a better knight than the ancient (LoB 1.5)
it was too expensive (in points) or not rather powerful for its points cost see on my blog for more battle report with their.
in any cases thank you for the fantastic job which you make for us
More necron stuff would be nice, like...the Megalith? theres a pic of it in the necron codex.
me and my friend also thought of a necron sarcophagus fighter (basically a coffin with wings and particle cannon :D) but i highly doubt necrons would fly around and stuff.....but it still would be something different
As a thought, please keep the rules for the Armorcast reaver in it. I prefered it over the forgeworld document.
I'm liking the idea of a giant scarab looking thing for the Necrons. Are there any fliers for them anyway?? I would think it to look like a cross between a Star Wars AT-TE and the evil spaceship Saren flies around in in Mass Effect (Amazing game if/when you have 40k downtime).
It would be awesome to have some kind of grapple ability if it gets too close to another super-heavy vehicle along the lines of a 6" Range Strength - Hit where on the turn it grapples, both vehicles become immoblized (no matter the number of fields, structure points, whathaveyou) at the beginning of the Scarab Titan owning players next shooting phase a strength D hit occurs causing all sorts of stucture points, fields damage etc.
I'm not too keen on all the rules for apoc, so modify as you see fit. But i think this would be an amazing addition to the Necron tomb world repertoire.
We have access to two tempests, so I for one am looking forward to that one.
I would also like to see, in the product or in the blog, some kind of article or commentary that addresses a kind of "best practices" list of things you guys have learned about making successful Apocalypse games happen.
First off, KUDOS to BOLS for being awesome! I love Lords of Battle, but it did need an update...
Eldar:
I agree with what the other Eldar players have said about Eldar Heavy Titans (Phantom and Warlock) being overcosted/ underpowered. I was personally thinking that the Phantom Titans Prism cannons each were like 3 Fire Prisms adding their fire together (see sunstorm squadron data sheet.) I would like to see verbage that allows me to combine the fire on them to be like a 6 fire prism shot (i.e. 3+3) and be twin linked (Again like fire prisms.) I think that this ability would add significant firepower to the Phantom without having to change a lot. Also, the option of the Phantom Missle launcher would be neat if it were more like an apoc. missle launcher that the Reaver can field. Maybe something like st 5 ap 3 Apoc (4). Also, I do love the Warlocks 'infinity circuit.' rule.
As far as tanks go, It would be awsome to see something for an Eldar storm serpent or Cobra super Heavy.
Marines:
The Legion Fellblade cannot add extra sponsons like the guard can, is this intentional?
Knight Formations:
Imperial: Sustained fire (if command Knight is intact then the whole unit can focus all its fire on a single enemy formation/ unit if it does then all weapons re-roll missed to hits) also, upgrade knight to 2 structure points
Eldar: Out Flank; Unit gains the Flank March ability
Orcs: I like the previously suggested "ignore immobilised on a 4+"
That is all I have for now... Id love to see it soon so we can all look it over.
-V
BOLS FTW!
I love these books, I really do
It's awesome reading through them and looking at all the cool ideas and applications of the 40K fluff
But still, as a Tau Apocalypse player I'm still disheartened to see no appearance in the next book
oh well.... maybe someday
How do you guys come up with the (model) designs for the new units?
A lot of the 'new,' units as you call them are only new to 40k... Most of the models/ units already exist in another system i.e. EPIC, aurenotica imperialis (sp).
-V
Well since you're asking. Here's the only stuff I'd add (but I like a lot of what I read above)
Necrons: Need air support. something with forward swept wings like a Cylon raider (or like the Necron BFG ships). Call it a "Ghost Crescent", or "Crypt-Scythe", or something similar. Could be easy to kit bash out of foam core, styrene, and an odd tombspider.
Eldar: The officail rules for Firestrom and Doomweaver have tha bility to carry troops... which is dumb - nobody uses them like that. Put out a new data sheet for them that gets rid of that option and knock about 20 points off of their cost. (Maybe use pics of the old epic models to keep out of trouble with Forgeworld - they're not reading this right?)
Tyranid: Exocrine and Dactylis need an AA capability option.
I'd like to see an option for flying Tyrant Guards, or Carnifexes
IG: More Baneblade turret options.
(Baneblade "Deuce" Squadron)
Turret w/ twin linked Vanquisher cannons
Turret w/ twin linked Battlecannons
Turret w/ twin linked Demolisher cannons
Moles
Knight Squadrons: maybe something equivalent to a free Enginseer/bonsesinger/etc, improved repair ability with a "multipack" buy
Haha "new" units. That is funny. These are some of the oldest units in the Warhammer universe. Knights haven't been produced since the early '90s.
While we are talking about old units, I would love to see a Land Train done up for Apoc.
BTW. great job on these units. If you guys make a Harbinger I would love to see pictures and templates!
Extra units...
Imperator and Warmonger
Mega-gargant and wierd boy battlewagon
Fire Gale
Legio Sinister titans
All the squat stuff
OK for Necrons I would like to see the Abbatoir and the Aeonic Sphere. They should caparable to an Emperor class titan. Both of these made their debut in the Fire Base Epic edition.
Also I see no Dark Eldar, from the rumors on the net they'll be making a huge comback in 5th. How about the Tormentor Titan thats also made it debut in the Fire Base Epic edition.
A lot of people are mentioning Necrons, what about a Dirge-class Necron raider from BFG in 40k scale? it'd be a little bigger than a Tau Manta, for example.
Hey, may I make a suggestion for an Eldar Sky Host?
150 points plus 4 models of any mix from the list below
Consists of 0-4 Nightwings
0-4 Phoenix (any type)
0-4 Vampire (any type)
STRIKE FORCE: The aircraft must enter the table within 18" of each other.
ECM INTERLOCK: While all four aircraft are within 18" if each other, their holofields can mesh together to better confuse the enemies' targeters. The aircraft of the Host improve their Holo-Field save to 3+.
SLIPPED THE SURLY BONDS: The Eldar pilots that make up the Sky Host have been following the Path of the Star Eagle for decades if not centuries, and have been bound together by the Host through all manner of aerial battles for almost as long. As a result, they can practically read each other's thoughts and predict each other's moves, and can easily lend aid to each other. The aitcraft in the Host ignore Crew Shaken/Crew Stunned results on the Vehicle Damage Table.
Hopefully, this isn't too powerful. I include it here because I'm trying to acquire four Nightwings to use in this manner, and I'd like for you guys to playtest it since I'm sure you have access to four Eldar aircraft (bigred has at least two Phoenix - lucky!) and you play much more Apocalypse than I do. The Eldar are supposed to be the unchallenged masters of the sky, and with this datasheet I hope they get that fearsome!
I hope it's good enough to attract your interest. Thanks for this, and for the revamp. Can't wait!
Guys, you all missed the intro. Its a love thing for all the great epic machines from earlier. In the first book they took all the Armorcast modells in and a few of the epic figures. And now they should add as much as they can of the epic figures which doesn't have an acutal rule. Why should they make a Cobra datasheet when there is allready one in the IA Apocalypse? Why should the make rule for scratchbuild Necron Titans when there isn't even the Imperator Titan (I'm speaking of people like me who gets nearly the whole epic range at home and wants to play all those things). We can be happy that they took all this time to present us a new masterpiece and gives us the chance to play with allready existing modells. No argument against your ideas, they are great - but still I think firstly they should add existing figures before scratch stuff....
And the Imperial Knight Baron is still missing...
Also, i agree that the Emperor class titan (Both chaos and imperial versions) NEEDS to be done as it is such an iconic image. The Necron DO need their orb thingy and the Abattoir. As for old models that need rules, how about the imperial guard Chimerax and Chimedon? Or even better, Space Marine Saber tanks...Or maybe bring back the Land Raider Spartan. Make it be a land raider that can transport up to 10 terminators, but make it only be able to transport terminators.
yea an imperator would be sweet! but ill never play it
-v
You might not play one, veahirin, but I certianly plan to.
Imperator pattern Emperor Class Titan - please?
I once saw a cool sheet for the Imperator Titan:
Points: 5400
Front/Side/Rear: 14/14/14
WS4 / BS4
Structure Points: 18
Void Shields: 12
Carapace:
Quake Cannon:
108" / Str. 8 / AP 3 Ordnance 1, 10" Blast, Destroyer
Defence Laser:
The one from the Apocalypse Datasheet
Main Weapons:
Plasma Annihilator:
240" / Str. 10 / AP 1 Ordnance 1, 10" Blast, Destroyer
Hellstorm Cannon:
240" / Str. 8 / AP 3 Apoc. Barrage (10), rending
No difficult and dangerous terrain test needed (logical not? *G*)
comes close to what it should be, they forgot the dozens of heavy bolters on all sides, legs, carapace, but they give him a lot of fire points
Would love to see an original Raven Wing formation!!!!!! I have half the 2nd company, but haven't the imagination to create the rules, or a clue how you arive at the points.
There is one model missing from your list and thats the Dark Eldar Razorwing.
Forgeworld used to make them (as by the fact they have an entry in Imperial Armour II) but if the rumours are correct they broke the mold that made the linking piece between basically 2 halves of a raven and such they had to stop production.
Please can you add this model back into your lists and GW has no plans to add it into any of their official ones.
Post a Comment