Games Workshop vs Asmodee: A Tale of 2 Companies

Stock market data with uptrend vector. 3d render.

Take a look at the financial reports from GW and Asmodee (just recently acquired FFG).  The industry is changing fast gamers…

 

You can learn a lot about a company by taking a look at their financial reports and statements.  When Asmodee announce their acquisition of Fantasy Flight Games, folks took notice.  Here are two documents I want you to look at:

 

AsmodeeLogo

Asmodee Financial Overview 2014

(PDF, Asmodee section starts on p.25)

 

and

 

games-workshop-logo

Games Workshop Financial Report

(pdf, annual report 2014)

 

Here are some graphics to give you a taste of what’s in there.

From Asmodee’s Financials:

pic2387250_lg pic2387253_lg

 

Look at that growth and revenue curve….

 

Now compare with GW’s financials…

 

GW2014-annual-report

What’s interesting is to see the diametrically opposed strategies both companies are pursuing.  GW is all about 100% owned IP.  They are reticent to stake out new IPs and instead continue to mine ever deeper into their Warhammer Fantasy and 40K universes.  They have licensing deals for IP-based videogames, and non-miniatures games with FFG. They continue to focus on the tabletop minaitures niche with the even-more niche Forgeworld, and publishing arm Black Library.

 

Asmodee on the other hand is all about acquisitions of entire companies of games designed to hit all segments of the market from casual, to card games, to hardcore and “deep” games, and have a blend of both self-owned IP, and heavily licensed IP games (STAR WARS, Game of Thrones etc…).  In the last year alone, Asmogee has acquired multiple companies including big outfits like FFG and it shows.  This year’s sales are now listed at:

Latest Annual Sales:

Asmodee: 200 Million Euros (149.5 Millions Pounds Sterling) Up from 140 Million Euros the previous year

Games Workshop 165.1 Million Euros (123.5 Millions Pounds Sterling) Down from 134.6 million Pound Sterling the previous year

 

Next consider what Asmodee considers it’s competitors: Hasbro, Mattel, LEGO, Playmobil and you can see the picture starting to form.  Those companies are not realistically GW competitors.

pic2387252_lg

There are a lot of corporate lessons here to learn.  But If I were a betting man, you can start to paint a picture of what the tabletop gaming industry is going to look like a couple of years down the road.  It’s going to be a very interesting next few years to see where both of these company’s respective CEOs take them.

 

~Who do you think are going to be the biggest tabletop games 2 years down the road – and why?

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Archmike

    If GW continue as they are and don’t get bought out in the next few years i’ll be very surprised.

    • that is a direct quote from 2004! 🙂

      • Wayne Molina

        And every year it gets closer to being true if things stay the way they are. Those people ARE BEING PROVEN CORRECT.

        • Avensis Astari

          Correlation =/= causation.

        • Not really no. Proven correct would be GW dead. There are a lot of people that dream and pray for GW’s demise, for various reasons (hopeful price drop, hopeful tournament game that kills off narrative, etc) and they will dance around the bonfire with their pitch fork and cackle whenever they can and call people that disagree with them nasty derogatory epitaphs but nothing has proven anything correct.

          Businesses cycle up and down. Ultimately they end like everything on this world.

          So dancing around saying that people were right about GW dying is both premature and exactly like saying to someone that eventually they will be proven right about anything ending in this world, which is like saying water is wet and the sky is blue.

          Every company on this earth will end. Even the juggernauts fall eventually. So yes, Games Workshop will someday end. So too will privateer press.

          • vlad78

            Talks about GW dying sure are premature given GW still has the means to get out of the mess they created.

            But even if doomsayers were wrong in the past, it doesn’t mean they ‘ll be wrong forever.

            New competition has risen in the miniature market and GW is sinking its own boat by willing to become a (very) small collectible miniatures manufacturer.
            Revenue has been down, player base has been decreasing for the last few years. (both for WFB and 40k)

            WFB 9th will show if GW still has the skills and capacity to renew the interest for one of their major franchise.
            But starting by the almost complete destruction of their IP through the end times series is perhaps the dumbest and most lazy thing to do.

            Imho the best thing which can happen to the Warhammer fantasy IP (both WFB and WFRP) is to get sold entirely to someone else like FFG or Asmodée (which are in the process of merging).

          • No doubt – its just that the same drum beat and rants being put on a repeat loop for over a decade gets to hit comedic value.

            I seriously doubt that 40k or fantasy are going to die. The most realistic probability is that it gets sold to someone else yes.

            But people are warpathing hoping for yet another skirmish game that also costs nothing to collect which would be either killing the quality of the models (cheap models are cheap for a reason usually 9 times out of 10) or making yet another skirmish game in a world where 9 out of 10 wargames are skirmish games already.

          • tristan

            40k and fantasy are not going to die.
            Those IP’s are far to valuable.
            GW on the other hand…
            Well 70% profit loss in 2 years is quite a lot, woudn’t you agree?

            Also people are saying the will go down since 10 years.
            But keep in mind that GW has a lot more competition now then they had 10 years ago.

          • I guess the point being that i feel it doesn’t matter what gw is doing, people are going to be banging on this drum as loud as possible for as long as possible.

          • Oliver Grimwood

            Where are you getting this 70% figure from because that isn’t what the year on year figures are saying. There’s a drop but not 70% over the last two years. Also ten years ago GW did post a loss an actual loss not just less profit. There was plenty of competition around then too.

            Edited to make sense

          • tristan

            They made 19 million after tax profit in 2012
            Now they made 6 million.
            Im aware that there have been even rougher times for GW.
            I do not think that they had the same kind of competition 10 years ago.
            Who was there 10 years ago?
            Battle tech, warzone ok, but what else?

          • Oliver Grimwood

            They made 12 million (and let’s face it the 4 million for the website went into Mr Kirby’s wives pocket). The 6 million is for the first half this year. The drop is more like 35% which isn’t a good thing I just like facts do be you know, facts.

            Also 10 years ago was 2005 not the dark ages Warmachine came out in 2003 just have a look on board game geek and see all the others.

          • vlad78

            What kind of competition did you see 10 years ago?
            Warmachine was in its infancy. Arkham had already fallen and never threatened GW.
            There was no real competition.

            At the time, GW ruled the market. Their prices were already too high but not as crazy as today and if you wanted to be sure to find players to play with, buying GW games was compulsory.

            10 years later, by gouging their customers, not only has GW made all the competition profitable but they gave them the means to challenge them.

            GW challengers could overprice their products and still stay under GW prices. They just had to open their hands to see GW customers fall from the sky.

            Moreover, in 30 years, Gw never bothered supplying its customers a decent and inovative ruleset.
            The competition just had to do that.

            GW is totally unable to assess its weaknesses whereas the competition perfectly understood them.

            Playerbase is going down, what do they do? They raise prices and multiply the number of releases.

            Revenue keeps going down and now they destroy their own IP with this endtimes madness instead of nurturing it.

            This has nothing to do. With being obsessed about GW demise.

            No matter how good their minis are (which can be debated), if they lose their bigger playerbase and drop their background, they are dead, period.

            And what do they do? They remove their fantasy background and focus on 90-100. $ miniatures.

          • Oliver Grimwood

            Sorry I can’t agree with you. 2005 wasn’t that long ago there’s been bucketloads of other systems both before and since that time.

            I think you’re trying to fit your perception and beliefs to the circumstances. There was no price rise in 2014 and 2013 had been there best year in almost a decade, I do not believe this gouging you mention is a root cause (especially as the other major players charge roughly the same for minatures, please don’t try and give me that rubbish about the entry point 40K being 1850 pts and Warmachine being 50 because that not the case with either game) Something else is at play.

            Incidentally in 2007 (8 years ago) GW post a loss of about 2.5 ish million.

            Guess you didn’t you didn’t read the report which shows that FFG does less than a third of what GW does and bare in mind X-Wing is the number 2 game after 40K so GW is still very much at the top and by a long way.

            As for rules Epic 40K and BFG are considered to be amongst some of the best wargames rules written. They didn’t sell to well though.

            Now I not saying GW doesn’t have a problem decreasing sales IS a problem, I’m saying Tristan is over stating the depth at the moment and that you are trying to make the circumstance fit with your personal issues with GW. Please remember people were saying the same as you 10,15 and 20 years ago may be you’re finally right but the evidence doesn’t make me believe you

          • Oliver Grimwood

            Actually I think I’ve got it are you comparing the 2012 full year profit with with the most recent half year report?

  • Red_Five_Standing_By

    I totally missed the news that Asmodee merged with FFG.

    As an X-Wing player, I like FFG but their support of gaming shops is abysmal in terms of keeping them stocked with product. Big chains are overflowing with X-Wing products but local shops, which form a solid hub for gaming activity, really struggle to keep their shelves full (which is 100% necessary to ensure shops can maintain and grow long lasting communities).

    Say what you will about GW, they really don’t have that kind of problem (GW has a whole host of other problems though).

    • An_Enemy

      Your argument and the numbers above are diametrically opposed. Shops are a niche market that do not sustain the constant growth that a publicly traded corporation feeds off of. Getting games into Barnes and Noble/Target etc etc etc will reach far more customers than keeping a few thousand dingy LGSs well stocked. Many of the people that go into a B&N are unlikely to go into a LGS in their lifetime. The reverse is not true.

      • Samuel Sanchez

        Seriously b&n? You do realize it’s a dying company itself. Shuttering more shops every year. If it was Walmart maybe however expensive Miniature games are hardly a Walmart type product. Target is a bit better however I don’t know about your targets but all the ones by me are generally devoid of any minature games at best I find an xwing starter set

        • An_Enemy

          It was one example. Hence the “etc etc etc”

          Even if a store only stocks starter sets its going to make more sales world wide than making sure Crazy Jim’s Games Emporium has ten+ units of each mini in wave five. I’m sure their ultimate goal is to sell all of their minis, but selling a few thousand barely played starter sets to people that otherwise wouldn’t have even seen the game isn’t making them mad.

      • Chuck777

        The point was that you can and should do both. Local shops keep communities of high volume customers coming back week in and week, constantly hungry for more. Places like Barnes and Noble are good for advertising and selling kits to people who may be vaguely interested in the game (but more in terms of it being like a fun activity rather than a hobby).

    • RexScarlet

      Most flsg buy from distributors, not directly, guess how many “gaming” distributors there are in the US?

      • Chuck777

        Actually, from what I understand, you can buy direct from FFG and from distributors. Even then, no stock for local shops because there is such high demand and such low volume of kits being made.

      • blackdiamond925

        There are many distributors and the number is growing. I deal with them daily and I couldn’t tell you the exact number.

        I can tell you this though. The Asmodee Group, which now includes FFG and Days of Wonder, account for 25% of the board game sales in my store. I think I’m fairly typical in this respect. That’s enormous in a market segment that is immature. That’s enough to have a direct sales presence with retailers, if that’s what they wanted.

    • vlad78

      No GW does want to get rid of independant stockists entirely.

      Quite a lot of them do not sell GW products anymore.

      • aka_mythos

        Why would anyone want to?-Their trade terms are unfavorable and inflexible, FLGS are forced to carry a lot of stock no one want while GW coaxes consumers into buying anything with volume or a substantial margin directly from their website. GW sees retailing their product as a privilege and not as an amicable arrangement where all parties prosper.

        GW’s consumer base is largely moving on because stores don’t want to carry it and that makes it inaccessible to consumers, meanwhile the old consumer base gets older and branches into products and markets that more easily allow them to share a hobby experience with their family and friends. GW’s priced itself out of the larger number of impulse buyer and its pricing itself out of what parents are wiling to spend as a little toy for their kid. Alot of people got into 40k because they picked up one GW product and found out its a much bigger universe; their interest piqued. That vector of consumer entry to GW products is dead. That means everything!- when in stores 40k is competing against several branded games like Star Wars and D&D all with more name recognition to people who aren’t into any hobby .

      • Did you see GW’s financials where they broke down sales by channel? Their profits for independent stockists were 4.2 million pounds, considering their mail order business made them 5.3 million and their retail stores lost them almost 1.3 million, more than half of their profits came from independent retailers. They definitely do not want that profit going away, if you were to eliminate those sales they would be barely making any money at all.

        • Guest

          GW still forces shops to stock items only a tiny minority wants/desires (like the Hobbit stuff).

          • That doesn’t seem to address anything I said in my post…

          • Red_Five_Standing_By

            Misread who you were responding to.

          • All good

        • vlad78

          yet their policy is to try to remove their dependancy from independant stockists and have their customers go through their shiny websites.

          Gw sees independant stockists profit margin as something which should go right down gw pockets.

          The apparent success of independant shops comes directly from the failure of gw own single staff shops.

          Gw board does not even understand how important those independant stockists became because of gw own poor managment.

  • Cergorach

    Keep in mind that GW only handles it’s own IP and Asmodee not only uses extensive licensed IP from others (such as FFG + Star Wars), it dows a lot of translations in other regions (such as Pokemon) and handles distribution for other publishers. That might be a weakness of GW and a strength of Asmodee. But we don’t know the profit results for Asmodee, so we don’t really know if it’s actually healthy or just some private investors throwing money at the problem in the hopes to becoming the next Hasbro/Mattel…

    • purple-stater

      I think that’s rather the largest point of the article.

    • RexScarlet

      and, FFG has to “pay” for said licensing, whereas GW does not, yet FFG are less expensive, and FFG is still showing gains?
      .
      whaaaaaaaaa?

      • confoo22

        Licensing an established and wide reaching IP is much cheaper than developing one yourself. Also, we don’t know that FFG is showing gains since this report is only for Asmodee and only shows how much they made in sales, not their profit margin. Also, this report shows their financials from before they acquired FFG since it ends in 2013.

        In other words, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

        • tristan

          Well I can tell you that GW’s profits dropped by 70% since 2012

          • confoo22

            Congratulations on being able to tell me things that have literally nothing to do with what we’re talking about.

          • Notimetowaste

            Is it not? Oh Im sorry.
            I just wanted to make sure you know it.
            So that you don’t forget.

          • confoo22

            Ah, you’re a troll, got it.

          • Notimetowaste

            You are a white knight, got it man!

          • confoo22

            Yeah man, my pointing out of the fact that we don’t know FFG’s financials, that this report doesn’t include FFG, and the cost of licensing versus creating established IP, all makes me a white knight for GW, who I didn’t even bring up.

            To quote my original post: “In other words, you don’t know what you’re talking about.”

          • Notimetowaste

            You don’t need the financials of other companys.
            It’s quite ususal to compare a company to with itself.
            You know compare their newst numbers with the numbers of the past years.
            When you do that you will see that GW is not doing good at the moment.
            That is what matters.

          • Avensis Astari

            Actually comparing numbers to previous years tells you little, because too many factors are at apply. The UK economy, the global economy, the dying state of high streets, expansion of online retail, lack of licensed game releases, et cetera, et cetera…

            With so many factors changing year-on-year, it’s impossible to point at a single factor as the cause.

          • Notimetowaste

            All those thing might be true but we are not talking about a few percent here.
            They made 70% less profit then they did 2 years ago.
            70%! That would worry me if it would be my company!
            Bad weather?
            Uk economy?
            Global economy?

            Should not all companys suffer because of that?

            Time to stop finding excuses.
            A lot of people simply stopped playing the game!
            Why?
            Well some don’t like the rules, some simply can’t afford it any longer.

            This is a fact though.
            -They raise prices again (datacards went form 6.50 to almost 12$)
            -Closed stores and 3 regional HQ’s (cutting the cost)
            -Released the main Rulebook for their flagship game (and a tonn of other stuff)

            And they still making less then they did last year.
            Not just a bit less money.
            A lot less money.

          • Avensis Astari

            Actually, the UK economy is still very ropey, so it’s possible. Few areas are growing, and luxuries are most definitely shrinking. It’s feasible to imagine a 70% drop in profitability as a result.

            Not all companies would suffer, because A, few companies in GW’s market are also UK-based, B, GW is in a very niche market, so what tides reach it might not touch other companies, and C, we forget here that in the Grand Scheme, GW is a pretty small company.

            I’ve found locally that the decline of 40K is down to two factors: Skirmish games are just a tonne more convenient, and the lack of knowledge of what’s coming up. Those are the two things I’ve found locally for why GW is declining here, at least…

          • Notimetowaste

            Yes the no knowledge of coming releases bit is very important.
            FW is doing it much better.

          • Avensis Astari

            Indeed, I enjoy FW’s little teasers in my work email inbox.

          • tristan

            Im sorry I was under the impression that we are talking about GW finances.
            Are you sure you are in the right place?

          • confoo22

            I don’t know where you got that impression considering my comment and the one I was responding to was about FFG.

            Are you sure you have reading comprehension?

          • tristan

            Im not a native speaker but I try to do my best!

          • tristan

            That doesn’t make it less true!

          • confoo22

            But that does make it something I’m not talking about. If you want to trumpet that stat I would consider replying to someone who’s actually talking about it.

          • tristan

            What is this article about confoo?
            Is it about the new necron releases?
            Or is it about comparing the financials of two companys?
            Why do you belive that the financial situation of one of those companys is off topic, when the intention of this article is compare that financial situations of said companys?

          • confoo22

            I can’t believe i actually have to explain this to you. Not every comment in an article is directly related to that article’s subject. Rexscarlet’s comment was about FFG and was wrong about a few things, so I pointed that out. You then jump in with a non sequitur about GW, who nobody had mentioned, as though that somehow invalidated my comment (fun fact: it didn’t).

            So you tell me, how exactly was your comment germaine to the conversation I was having that you inserted yourself into?

          • tristan

            Well to bring this back to topic.
            Im pretty sure asmodee didn’t lost 70% in profit.
            Sure we don’t know their profit margin.
            But they at least did grow.
            That is something the other company we are talking about does not.
            Am I right?

          • confoo22

            I don’t know because I’m talking about FFG.

        • Chuck777

          It is cheaper but it is also fraught with problems, the worst of which is the dreaded loss of the license.

      • Samuel Sanchez

        Xwing less expensive? lol
        Last year alone I spent $460 to keep competitve and up to date on xwing. I don’t spend that much on warhammer unless I start a new army.
        Imperial aces, rebel transport, corvette, 7 wave 4 ships, rebel aces, 2 wave 5 ships. And I’m consider fairly frugal w my xwing purchases.

        • Chuck777

          They released a lot of good kits this year.

        • Erik Setzer

          Yeah, hate to tell you this, but you were starting a new game, and that’s pretty much a “new army” and then some.

          I dropped that much the last two weeks just on Skaven model kits, not even counting the Thanquol book. For that money I got a Verminlord, Hell Pit Abomination, Thanquol & Boneripper, and 9 Stormfiends. Wasn’t starting a new army, was just expanding one with new releases and one kit (the cheapest one, at that!) that I hadn’t gotten yet.

          So yeah, hate to break this to you, but X-Wing is less expensive.

          • Samuel Sanchez

            Sorry to tell you that’s not a new army but the expansions from last year. I started xwing like most people the year prior. Where once again I spent over $420 on the game just to play. Starter set x2=60, 7xwave 1=105, 4x wave 2 small ships=60 and 3x wave 2 large ships=90, 5x wave3 small ships=75 and 1x large ship=30. and I’m no where near as bad as most buying.

            This has so far been the yearly cost to play xwing and next year is going to be the same thing.

          • Erik Setzer

            Sorry to tell you but that is basically a new army. There are two (now three?) factions in X-Wing. It’s not fair to say that just because you’re buying every new release, possibly (probably) for both factions, that it’s “not a new army.” You could put together multiple builds. Just because the game isn’t adding more factions doesn’t mean you get to use that as a technicality.

            And just because you’re an X-Wing “whale” doesn’t mean that’s normal. The “whales” don’t set the norm. You’re choosing to buy far more than you really need, and you claim it’s to “remain competitive” even though that’s basically translating to “There’s some new stuff, I want to have every single option in the game even if it’s not really that competitive, and I want to know all the rules, so I want to buy it all.” By your concept of “competitive” a person would have to be keeping up with all the End Times stuff for Warhammer (oh hey, that’s a nice, cool $292 right there), plus every new army book being released, and all the digital releases. That’s to say nothing of new releases for armies.

            To “stay competitive” in 40K, with Orks last year, not starting a new army, I had to buy:

            40K Rulebook $85
            Codex $50
            Supplement $50*
            1 Orkanaught $105
            2 Deff Dreads $85
            1 set of Mega-Nobz $60
            2 boxes of Killa Kanz $93
            1 White Dwarf $4
            1 set of Ork cards $13

            *I’m being nice and using base cost, not the limited edition set cost.

            That’s not counting other stuff that I got that just fleshed out other parts of the army. You can take out the older models, but if I’d actually paid what GW wants for Big Gunz (forget Flash Gitz), then you’re looking at $460 right there for two batteries. Two units, less than 400 points, and it’s over what you spent. Right there, I think we can agree your point just fell apart. But let’s keep going. And remember, that’s just a small addition to an Ork army.

            There was the wonderful campaign that had Ork stuff and rules for Planetstrike, $100. I haven’t gotten the other campaign yet, but it doesn’t have Ork stuff anyway, so maybe we can discount it, though that doesn’t seem fair with your own catch-all approach.

            So yeah, I spent well over $500 just on “keeping competitive” with Orks last year, and only got part of an army, whereas you can build multiple fleets/squadrons/whatever with what you got.

            Should I keep going? I can point you to the bundles on GW’s website. I can once again reference that I just spent more than your figured on new models for one army, even before counting all the rules I need to keep up with the End Times, but yes, let’s throw all those together, for $800, just to get some new models for one army.

            Don’t play games of “sticker shock” trying to compete with GW games. There’s no way you’ll win that battle.

          • Samuel Sanchez

            Congratulations on spending money on products you didn’t need to stay competitive. Since you liked to point out I didn’t need to buy every expansion for cards just to stay competitve in xwing. I’d like to point out I also play Orks (and AM; two of the most expensive armies). Nearly everything you mentioned you needed to stay competitve with Orks has nothing to do with a competitve list. You basically were a much bigger whale buying models you don’t need on non competitve lists. And seriously trying to claim ork cards are necessary to be competitve; that’s like me stating acrylic templates for xwing is necessary to stay competitve. The most competitve list right now for Orks on 40k is the greentide. I had an old 2nd edition ork army that literally only took me buying 3 big Mek gunz to make my greentide list highly compettive since every new model released this year wasn’t needed. Also The only completely new model in your entire list was the orkanaut. At most all you needed to spend was $100 last year, 35$ for a new codex, and unless thier was something specific in the ghaz supplement u needed like greentide then another $35 supplement. Still less then me making a fat han list last year for xwing.

          • Erik Setzer

            Oh, I’m sorry, I thought you meant “competitive” as in “could compete with good lists and good players,” not “can do random insanity against people who are playing just for funsies.”

            That helps explain your purchases, then.

            Please do continue. It’s funny. Sad, but funny.

          • Samuel Sanchez

            Well then you have no point since for funsies I can play 40k significantly less then everything u purchased. Also there was only one new model in your list that was released last year everything else are based on models that have been around for 5+ years. I already own killa kans, and mega nobs and deff dreads. The orkanaut being the only new model was never needed in any list I wanted. So I’m sorry your sore about purchases you never needed to stay competitve in 40k it’s pretty sad you spent all that money and felt the need to cry about your poor decision making on the Internet

          • Erik Setzer

            And you can play X-Wing without needing all of that stuff for funsies or to be competitive. So YOU need to stop complaining and moaning about your own choice to spend a bunch of money and claiming it makes a point that doesn’t exist.

            And you also skipped right over the Skaven, where, again, I dropped as much as you did all year on just new models – NEW models, not ones that have been out before last Saturday – and then even more than that if you count the End Times books. And yes, you damn well need the new Skaven stuff to have a better chance against some armies, especially those combined Chaos and Elf armies. But nice job trying to ignore that one.

            Good talk, I’m glad we could sort out that you were full of BS. Do you want to sit down and shut up now, or can we keep embarrassing you for being silly enough to claim X-Wing is more expensive than any GW game?

          • tristan

            BUT YOU DONT NEED ALL THIS TO PLAY THE GAME!
            It’s like saying you need to buy any product GW released in the last year to play a game!
            Would that be the truth?
            Of course not!
            Your comparison is totally pointless.

          • Samuel Sanchez

            No it’s about buying whatever you need for ur faction to be competitve. There is not a single point I ever need to buy an elder model just to play my guard and yet I need to buy a corvette for a completely different game to play a fat han list. That is completely crap tactics to drain money from thier player base for no reason.

          • tristan

            Its like I would moan that I have to buy 5 knights because I have the OPTION to play 5 knights!
            Can’t you see how crazy that idea is?

          • Samuel Sanchez

            I never said you have to buy 100 points of every model to play every list in xwing however you do need to buy most models to be competitve in xwing including buying a $100 epic ship for an entirely different game just to make the current top compettive list.

          • tristan

            No you only have to buy every single choice multipe times from codex IG.
            Do you own every unit IG could potentially field?
            Including FW?
            Including Battle brothers?
            Can you play any possible army list combination that IG could field?
            If the answer is yes, how much did that cost you?
            If the answer is no,
            (and it will be, because nobody is able to field all possible army list combinations!)
            Well then you have the same problem you cry about in x-wing also in 40k.
            Only that it’s much worse because 40k has a lot more units.

            You somehow belive you have the inherited right to being able to play ANY single army list combination your faction could possibly offer!

            Well if you want to be able to play ALL possible lists then, you have to buy all ALL released stuff.
            Thats how it goes in any tabletop game.
            This is your choice you know!

        • steelmage99

          Please re-calculate without including the Rebel Transport and the Corvette.
          You do not need those to stay competitive.

          • Samuel Sanchez

            lol tell that to the current world champion and by far the most used list this past year with c3p0 and r2d2.

        • jonathan beatty

          I play both and see what you are trying to say but honestly you are off here.

          In X-Wing you only Need the Core Set and maybe 6-10 other ships to stay competitive. You honestly don’t need all the new ships and the old ships are not bad at all. You are buying all the rebel releases that you do not need to do.

          In X-Wing you do not need to paint, model or even make terrain. The core comes with it.

          Now that you have Everything for the rebels you don’t need to spend much more anytime soon. You just got your army built and don’t need any more.

          • Samuel Sanchez

            Overall it can be cheaper but nearly everyone I know has a game mat some even have asteroids. Just like 40k I started on a kitchen table w can food as terrain.

            Xwing imho is worse then. Gw in the money grubbing department I have no itention to play epic but I have to buy a 70-90 ship for a differbt game just to play my faction of choice. I don’t want to play scum and yet ffg flat out ststed autothrusters was made to help interceptors be competivel vs turrets. If gw told people you had to buy eldar to make units in your guardarmy competitve people would cry bloody foul yet they honestly sit here and try to argue it’s fine when it’s obviously a complete hack job to sell minatures people may not ever use.

            You can claim I don’t need to buy every release if I just want to play imperial yet every release has cards the other faction not only can use but sometimes are necessary to fully utilize your army.

          • BEAR812

            So trade, or find it on ebay? I just did a quick search and found someone in the UK selling Pilot/Crew/Upgrade cards at around 1.49 GBP.

          • Erik Setzer

            “Xwing imho is worse then. Gw in the money grubbing department”

            O RLY?

            Dude, do you really play GW games?

            If you want to play in the End Times, that’s a few hundred dollars in books alone. And everyone’s doing End Times. And if you do Undead Legions, Legions of Chaos, or Elf United armies, you’re looking at $100-$150 for the rulebooks for those armies.

            GW’s “smaller, cheaper rulebook” is a small format rulebook with just the rules, nothing else, for $58.

            GW introduced new Ork artillery that helps Orks with things they need… and then charged $46 a model, so you need $230 PER BATTERY, and with maximum upgrades and options they’re only 195 points a battery.

            GW just released Stormfiends for Skaven. The box lets you make three models, each of which can make one of two variants. Want more than one of an option? You have to buy another box. If you even want two different options but they share the same body, you have to buy a second box. The boxes are $62 each. To be able to field a unit of three with the same equipment (which you’ll want), you have to spend nearly $200 after taxes (I know this all too well), and then they’re all going to be in the same bloody pose, which you can’t even modify my slightly changing the angle of something a couple degrees, because then other parts won’t line up right. (I just mention that because it shows how much the kit isn’t really a good value, sadly.)

            And if you’re going the route of “something might have rules I need,” then for 40K you’ll need two campaign sets so far ($100 and $132, if you get softcovers for the second one), any supplements for your army, multiple copies of White Dwarf, card decks, digital downloads…

            Yeah, seriously, just… stop. You’re not going to win a price war with GW. They can out-price anyone.

          • tristan

            The corvette is a normal x-wing rebel unit.
            What the hell are you talking about guard and eldar?

          • Samuel Sanchez

            The corvette is not a normal xwing unit. It’s an epic ship unusable in standard or tournament formats. It’s a different game format it’s apocalypse for xwing.

          • Red_Five_Standing_By

            Buy single cards off auction sites and/or other sites. You do not need to buy the entire corvette to get the two cards you desire.

        • Notimetowaste

          Rebel transport to stay competitive?
          Yeah at that point I knew that you are talking bulls@$t.

          • Chuck777

            Wes Janson is a lot of fun to use.

          • Notimetowaste

            No doubt about that, but competitive?
            He said he had to buy it to stay competitive! We both know that’s a lie.

          • Chuck777

            So true. The transport has a lot of fun stuff for casual/fun games but nothing in it is necessary for competitive games. Your money would be far better spent on buying the Outrider, Z-95s, etc.

          • Samuel Sanchez

            You can sit here and claim the transport isn’t needed to stay competive which I never specifically called out but you ignore the entire point of the post how ffg forces you to buy ships for a game most people may not have intention to play to get a handful of cards they need to stay competitve. Ignore the transport all you want but the corvette completely invalidates your point when Paul heaver spent 90$ on two cards for his world championship list in a box where 90% of what he paid for wasnt evenplayable in standard xwing.

          • Erik Setzer

            And…? Do you really play GW games? One of the best things Orks have is a formation that’s in a $50 campaign book. You have to buy a book for $50 where you can’t really use much of anything else in it, ever. Even the Planetstrike rules in it are split across the two campaign books.

            Okay, fair enough, Orks aren’t really competitive at all, so maybe we can knock them out.

            Let’s go another route:

            The current WFB army dominating people at the local GW store is a combined High Elf, Dark Elf, and Wood Elf list, where a guy had to spend (not counting the core rulebook) $225 on the rules just so he could use a couple of pages from each book.

            Let’s keep this up! It’s fun seeing someone act like something’s expensive compared to GW!

            (And I have a $105 model sitting on a shelf looking cool because its rules are awful. So at least for $90 you’re getting SOMETHING for your money. Not to mention the $115 model people will never allow me to use, or the $140 model that I have that people moan and whine about if I use it, making me not use it often. And GW had to change the rules of Warhammer just to allow some of their $90-$110 models they’re releasing in standard games.)

          • tristan

            Oh you did!
            Do I need to f€£king quote you?
            You wrote you needed to buy all this stuff to stay competitive!
            That is bu€£¥hit! And you damm well know it!

            Again! What about our bet?
            You were soooo sure GW’s numbers would go up in the next financial report.
            You also said that you would post my and Azraels comment, right next to new annual report.
            Im still waiting mate!

          • tristan

            Ah you wanted to copy a tournament winning list and now you are sad that it costs so much!
            I will include you in my prayers.

          • Samuel Sanchez

            I know sarcasm is a poor mans version at being intelligent but you do it so well. i guess when you fail completely at making your point sarcasm is really all you have to not make yourself look so incompetent.

          • Red_Five_Standing_By

            Buy the singles off various websites. Sure it will cost you 2 to 10 bucks a piece but that’s way cheaper than buying the Corvette, especially when you only need one or two cards.

            You don’t seriously believe Magic players go to the store and buy pack after pack hoping to get the one card they need, do you? They go onto a website and buy the single. If you want to be competitive, that is what you need to do as well (and you need to do it fast, since FFG takes ages to reprint ships).

            Additionally, once the Raider comes out, Epic games will become more common (since both sides will be equally competitive now that they both have a huge ship (Scum will have to be patient)).

        • RexScarlet

          so $460 verses 40k RB, Codex, and a 1850 Army, plus paint, glue, tools, and etc.
          .
          yep, you are right X-Wing is more costly…
          .
          my caddy is cheaper than 40k, as I do not have to buy anything for it, unless I buy a brand new car, then… lol

  • 3dken

    Maybe Asmodee will buy GW next year? (possibly with a hostile takeover!) 🙂

    • kevinharoun

      That would be lovely.

    • Spacefrisian

      Same stuff but cheaper? I think we would all like that.

  • RexScarlet

    Perfect, all this post needs is; “drops mike” lol
    .
    flgs, which have been the backbone of miniatures games for years, have limited and costly gaming space, (costs per square foot), and need that gaming space to create equal revenue as product stocked shelves. Why MTG is the workhorse of most flgs tables at the moment, whereas RPG games generate so much less when at a table.
    Additionally, most flgs buy from the few distributors here in the usa, which creates higher costs. (see below)
    .
    Larger retailers, toys R us, walmart, Hobby town usa, etc. have zero gaming space, and sell a variety of competition products, like Lego given as an example above. Additionally, larger retailers buy directly, or as in walmarts case do not own anything in store, the product manufacturer owns it.
    .
    so what is the future of gaming products?
    .
    ask a local grocery, hardware, and etc. store what happened when a super walmart opened next door?
    .
    that is the future of gaming products.

    • Chuck777

      Yes and no.

      Grocery stores sell the same product as a Super WalMart except they charge more. There is zero added value from shopping at a regular Grocery Store over WalMart save for a nicer atmosphere and a different clientele. That works for some shops but you really have to emphasize that aspect (which most grocery stores do not (which is why they fail when competition comes to town)).

      Game stores offer a place to play and charge the exact same price for a given product as a big box retailer. There is value added for money there.

      • RexScarlet

        Yep. good analogies.
        .
        And the hardware and all the other retail stores in the small town?
        CLOSED, gone, do not exist any longer, including at least one of the grocery stores.
        .
        Game stores can charge less than big-box if they choose to (BB are still less), but it would be hard to stay open.
        .
        Big-box carry the “other” Lego type competition products mentioned, as well as fully stocked shelves, while most flgs do not carry or stock those Lego type products, or as much quantity. Even GW stores only stock two SM tactical squads, go figure?
        .
        Tables generate sales, if the particular “game” is not generating sales it is rare to see it on a table during prime-time hours (weekends). Look at any flgs calendar of events 40k is usually a weekday, while other games are slated for weekends.

        • Red_Five_Standing_By

          Hardware stores could not compete with Wal*Mart

          because they had no way of generating value beyond the product itself. Big box stores may have more stock but they do not provide you with a community, a place to play or with niche products that relate to the games you play. The extra shops you pay over and above a Big Box retailer’s discount goes towards maintaining that place to play and keeping the lights on.

          Actually, I have to disagree with your table concept. Maybe in your area tables are reserved for card games but the shops I have been too foster a particular night for each game. Consistency breeds attendance.

          Locally, we have four game shops. Outside of Friday Night magic (which two shops host every week), each shop has a totally different schedule tailor-made for the people who frequent their establishment and the games they support. The two shops that support GW games both have 40k (and Warmachine) on Fridays or the weekend.

  • xNickBaranx

    Yeah, this article seems to take the presumption that GW needs to somehow compete with Asmodee to be relevant or successful. GW completely built themselves on being self-contained – and that has always been their strength. Yeah, they could have spent the last 30 years developing licensed IP’s, but instead they invested that 30 years into developing their own sprawling beloved unique IP. I know people who stand by Lord of the Rings as being the best game they ever made, but how many times have we cried when an issue of WD focused on LotR instead of 40K, and the answer is countless.

    I’d rather GW keep doing what they are doing, rather than datamining endless IP’s when they already created one that’s immersive and vibrant.

    • Charon

      Because they are competing. If you want to play tabletob wargames and have a montly hobby budget, you decide who will get your money.
      If you decide that you rather start Warmachine (for example) than starting a second 40k army, GW just lost potential money.

  • Erik Setzer

    Now we just sit back and wait for all those GW excuse-makers to show up and point out to us all how Asmodee also lost sales and the whole game-making industry is dropping in revenue.

    Except that’s not what happened. Quite the opposite.

    You’d hope there’s lessons to be learned here, but they’re moot. I mean, yeah, they’re there… but GW’s current heads aren’t going to do anything with those lessons. They’ll completely miss said lessons.

    I’ve seen people slowly start getting less excited and more frustrated with GW, because they want to invest in a new army or something, but rumors abound whether the army will get updated soon, or a new edition of a game will come out, and they have no way to know until the week before anything’s released. The Internet rumor mill is the only information we have, and it’s often horribly wrong. That’s not a healthy way to treat your customers, or even your employees. This shell they’ve put around themselves isn’t protecting the company, it’s harming it, and if they keep it up they’ll be so niche that they not only will be shrinking in sales, but losing money. And what bothers me most is that their current attitude seems to be, “Yeah, we have money in the bank, we’re not going to fold in the next couple of years, so why change the course?” Apathy kills.

    But oh well, I’m sure there’ll be more excuses trotted out. But yeah, it’s been interesting to see Asmodee showing that GW losing revenue is perfectly normal, even though that didn’t happen at all.

    • Andreas Noche

      Are these companies really that easy to compare?

      I mean, GW only has two ips of their own, while asmodee tries to diversify. Thus, while no single project will create the money that 40k does, Asmodee will not fall hard if a project fails. Might even be able to cancel or overhaul projects easier. Also Asmodee invests in branches besides table top.

      Would like to see PP to see how they do.

      • Erik Setzer

        Well, that’s a valid point… but there were still people trying to defend GW’s issues by saying that everyone in the game industry was dropping in sales. Sort of like how some claimed it was because of lagging retail in the UK, even though the UK was a stronger performer for GW in their report. Basically, the excuses people make up don’t work, and this is another example of that.

        GW *has* painted itself into a corner with their model. It’s even more obnoxious because they won’t sell the products they license in their own stores, or let people play them there, which means they lose out on sales of Warhammer-branded products. The past week has seen multiple nights of people going to a local restaurant after the GW store closes to play Warhammer 40,000 Conquest and I know these guys would jump all over buying the game… but if they want it, they have to go somewhere else to buy it. How does that make any sense? Their forced exclusivity excludes their own licensed products! Their single-minded focus on two product lines (they’re going to phase out Hobbit/LotR rather quickly once the movie craze is over, I imagine) is one of the things hurting them. (Wait, okay, *three* product ranges, throwing in the tools and paints.) It’s not even limiting themselves to miniatures games. They limit the games they have, too. People loved the Specialist Games. Of course, people also loved the board games and all. But someone at GW seems to have asked, “Which games can we make the most off of an individual from? Oh, WFB and 40K? Okay, cancel everything else, the money they make isn’t worth it because we can’t sell hundreds of dollars to a person. And board games are just stupid because why would we want to sell a whole game for $30 to $60?”

        Asmodee shows the power of branching out, and they could do that so well. It’d be worth investing money in doing so, to make more stuff in-house. If they’re going to have their own stores, they need to carry a wider variety of product ranges. As people leave 40K and WFB behind, GW loses those people entirely, even if the people are moving to other GW-themed games like Conquest, where they’ll only get maybe a small cut of the sale. GW grew based on a diverse body of work, and I’m sure that this shrinking of their focus is one of the reasons they’re contracting rather than expanding in sales.

        I hope they get things worked out soon. I’d like to see more products from GW, and I’d like them to stick around. (Especially as I just dropped a good bit of cash on their new Skaven releases rather than a new couch.)

      • Tzompantli

        It’s not a perfect comparison but certainly relevant.

        GW is a publicly traded company and so needs to give investors growth on their return. That is tricky to do with a narrow product line – you try to get new people into the hobby, current people to buy more stuff, or you do price hikes. As far as I can tell, they are focusing on the latter two strategies which obviously has its limits.

        Asmodee follows an alternate strategy, one that involves expanding and diversifying the product line, a line that appeals to both casual and hardcore gamers.

        If GW needed to only maintain the status quo things would be less worrisome.

        Although it’s true we have been discussing this for a decade now, the big difference is a decade ago GW was still riding the wave of LOTR, which brought in new customers. Moreover, the tabletop landscape was much less competitive then than it is now.

        • Andreas Noche

          I do agree that branching out is indeed a valid response to buisness risks

  • Jason Arlington

    As a corporate guy, I can’t help but look back at the missed opportunity that was Warcraft.

    Supposedly Blizzard wanted to use GW IP but GW backed down. Had that occurred and GW passed on LotR (competing fantasy IP), how financially strong would GW be on the backs of all that royalty love?

    • Chuck777

      The original Dokey Kong game was originally designed to be a Popeye game. Could you see Popeye being as popular as Mario, or more profitable for Nintendo?

      Never.

      That same thing would have happened to Blizzard eventually. They would have dumped the license and made games under their own IP (like Bioware did with Star Wars and D&D, in favor of Mass Effect and Dragon Age).

      • Erik Setzer

        When Bioware made an MMO, it was Star Wars. I think it’s actually the only thing that convinced them to try making an MMO, the piles of cash they could make from the Star Wars franchise. And if it wasn’t for that name being on the game, it probably would have failed, rather than managing to keep going long enough to start making money. (Well, granted, it probably wouldn’t have had a $300M cost. Or even been created, as I think Bioware is smart enough to know they’re not an MMO company.)

        • Chuck777

          Yes and no. EA were the ones who pushed to make an MMO, which is why they were the ones to design all of the game mechanics, leaving the story to Bioware.

          In fact, almost everyone who plays the game has said, “Great story. Mechanics are uninspired.” If Bioware had been allowed to design the other half of the game, it would have been a vastly more successful MMO and would have pushed most other big name MMO companies towards including fully voice acted dialogue in their games (over text).

          EA tread on Bioware’s good name is what sold people on the game, which is why there was so much dissatisfaction with it when the game came out.

          You are right in that if the name Star Wars was not on the product, the game would not have been as expensive or as popular (although… I think a Mass Effect MMO (that is available on console) would have been very popular).

          • Erik Setzer

            Bioware isn’t an MMO company, though. Someone else needed to do the MMO side of things. When Bethesda wanted to do an Elder Scrolls MMO, they had another company do it (and that would have been fine, except they were trying to do a typical Elder Scrolls game – which is single-player – and make it using MMO ideas). That’s why a lot of stuff was broken or missing at launch.

            The story is nice, it’s why I’ve stuck around with it. Not knocking the game, especially as it’s gotten a lot better. But when it came out, it was obvious that the guys doing it weren’t able to learn how to do an MMO and put one to market that fast.

  • Deathstrike

    The crux of the issue is for the last decade GW has never considered themselves a gaming company. To them games are a necessary evil to support the sale of a model companies products

    • Erik Setzer

      Even though on their investor site they actually call themselves a game company, and often call the customers gamers, and note that people buy the models to play the games, and you need a good game to sell models.

  • Doom and woe!!! Doooooooom and woe.

    Any day now…annnnnyyyy day now.

    • vlad78

      As long as Gw financials keep getting worse.f

  • life of adept brian

    It seems like there are several people here in the know when it comes to financial matters of large corporations. There is something I have been mulling over (and this may be a ridiculously dumb question): Is there any information as to who the shareholders of each company are? This may be way out in left field – I’m nowhere near an expert on this sort of thing, perhaps someone could enlighten me… How many of the GW shareholders are employees of GW? If the majority of shareholders are employees, perhaps they don’t want to be bought? Perhaps they have opted to take higher salaries, increasing their overall costs in order to make themselves less attractive and the target of a hostile takeover? I believe only board members cannot be shareholders, is that correct? Is this scenario a possibility?

    Perhaps the shareholders of GW have long-term confidence in the company and are not intimidated by the performance of their “competitors”. Modest growth over the long term is not a bad thing… it’s still growth

    • UpsilonMan

      This perhaps doesn’t directly answer your question but I found this post (by a guy that runs a trading desk) about GW share holders very interesting;

      http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?394884-Games-Workshop-Stock-Prices-The-Future-and-Cats-Without-Sufficient-Coffee

      • life of adept brian

        Thanks, the linked article answered some of my questions (not necessarily those above) – was helpful nonetheless.

        The article/post indicated that roughly 80% of GW shareholders may not even realize they own GW shares. But the fact that Kirby owns 7% and knows it, wouldn’t that lean decision making towards what I am suggesting above as a possible (to fly under the radar and continue to be gainfully employed)? When there is a shareholder vote, how many informed voters would there be? According to the post, >20% of the shareholders would even get involved, suggesting that the balance of votes needed to make quorum – votes of mutual fund/portfolio holders – would be proxies? If this is true, who would have the proxy vote – Kirby? It seems that he might be a logical person to grant this ability to (vote on their behalf), by investors/groups that don’t know anything about the company or it’s business. Again, I know nothing of these matters, only involved in boards and associations of other kinds that I assume operate in a similar fashion… I’m just trying to make some sense of it all – like many GW fans, I just want know that everything will be fine

        • life of adept brian

          … deflating the stock price also makes it easier for someone to buy the shares up, and the performance numbers might scare off someone from the outside looking in.

  • withershadow

    Hopefully someone buys out GW soon. It’s the best thing to happen to the Star Wars franchise, 40K/WFB need the same injection of fresh blood and new managerial thinking.

  • I’ve been theorizing for years that it’s not going to be another niche specialist like Privateer (or Wyrd, or CB, or whoever) that finally unhorses GW, but that it’s going to be one of the heavy hitter generalists like Hasbro that finally does them in.

    These reports appear to be lending some weight to that theory.

  • chaos0xomega

    This is an apples to oranges comparison, the two companies operate in the same industry but in different market segments. Yes there is some small overlap between them, but Asmodee primarily deals in board games while GW primarily deals in model kits and miniatures games.

  • Ross Gustafson

    Big companies go through these phases all the time. For example, Nintendo people thought were dead in the water… then 2014 rolled around and they had a huge year and a big comeback. 3DS and Wii U sales went through the roof because they released a slough of great games with promises for more in 2015. Which is why Nintendo is riding red hot right now.

    Same thing happened in the automobile industry. In 2005/06 people thought Ford was dying a slow death. Then Ford did lots of clver business tricks to liquidate assets, keep costs low, and suddenly produce much better vehicles for the the first time in almost 20 years. Suddenly they were doing well and flipping between Toyota and themselves as the number 1 car manfacturer and took no money from the government to do it.

    We complain about GW a lot because it is the nature of the internet. However, this looks oddly like the same times those other big companies were hitting bad times. The turn around doesn’t take overnight but it does take some key moves structurally to bounce back. I don’t know what they all are. But let’s see what they have done for the customers right in the past couple of years:

    – A rapid release scheudle that has updated all of the 40K armies
    – New armies for the first time in a long time: Harlequins (I know they existed in 2nd but they were effectively dead)
    – Black Library with a rapid book release
    – End Times which has made a dull fluff of Fantasy into the most exciting thing in Fantasy. No one has any idea where this is going (even the rumours of 9th are vague and way far away to be counted as totally trust worthy)
    – The quality of almost every miniature in plastic ranges is unbelievably good. We used to have to get metal and finecast models to look this good and now we don’t have to. That is a technological achievement.
    – Quite honestly, 7th edition 40K is the most fun I’ve had in the hobby since I joined back in 3rd. The game is so open to play the game you want to play. They have achieved gaming scale unlike any other game.
    – The paint range, although it made me rage quit in 2011, is better than almost any other paint range on the market.
    – Super heavy walkers, tanks and flyers are now a thing for every army (except Tyranids who replace those with giant monster versions). We wouldn’t have dreamed of this 5 years ago.
    – Forge world 30K can do no wrong right now.
    – The Hobbit is dying a quick death as it should. 2015 they will focus on the two games that matter.
    – 9th edition, whether you hate the rumors or not, is getting the makeover/complete overhaul people have been begging for years from 8th (I know here in Edmonton, almost NO ONE PLAYS FANTASY for the last 4 years except a loyal few). After getting knocked out of the top 5 tabletop wargames out there, Fantasy needs an overhaul. That may mean bubblehammer. That may mean something else (which I think is more likely). It’s what people have been asking for (with their dollar) for a long time.

    GW does what no one else does: make games where you can be a commander of an actual army in a fantasy and sci-fi setting where you can take armies as unique as you are. I’m going to try out Warmachine (just got in my starter kit this week) but I can already tell I won’t like it as much because everything looks the same and the rules are ridiculous maticulous. No other game comes even close to Warmachine scale. Seriously why are you people cheering on the demise on a company that has done more and continues more good for its customers and this industry than anyone else? Yes their IP control policies border on psychotic and they are expensive. However, they do things that no one else does and make a game that no one can with the high quality of miniatures that they do it with. If you don’t want to play large scale epic battles, there are plenty of inferior games for you to play I will enjoy painting all 200 of my High Elves and 60 of my Eldar thank you very much.

    Speaking of which you know what the first word that comes to mind when I hear pre-painted miniatures? Crap! They may make a tight game with lots of templates, but the miniatures will always be crap from FFG and just because something is all in one box does not make a great game. Just a great marketing strategy because that is what you are paying for.

    • Tzompantli

      GW is not a big company.

      But to use the analogy, you could just as well include Lehman Brothers, Chrysler, or any number of other companies that didn’t weather the economic downturn so well.

      Bankruptcy/buyouts are not myths they do really happen.
      The concern isn’t whether GW is making great product. In my mind, they are and remain my favorite wargame company.

      The real question is whether management is steering the company in a direction that will keep them viable long term. They have hit the wall with price hikes and I am just not sure they will be capable of attracting new customers in the crowded gaming landscape. For many buyers, its not Warhammer vs. Warmachine in terms of time and money. Rather, it is Warhammer vs. some other form of hobby/entertainment.

      As others have noted the IP, miniatures, games, etc. are going nowhere. The question is what state they will be in, what will be paying for them, and to whom in the years to come.

  • Drew

    I love GW games and I love X-Wing, so I’m not taking a side here, but I think that it’s important to remember they don’t scratch the same itch in the gaming market- they’re fundamentally different products, catering to different types of players (a painter/modeler has little to gain from X-Wing unless they, like me, want to repaint their squadron, for example, while somebody who’s focused solely on gameplay and hates assembling models will do better with X-Wing).

    • ted1138

      Thing is, not everyone who buys GW products is a dedicated modeler/painter. Most are gamers, and when they stop playing GW games they also stop buying GW models.

  • Gridloc

    I always compare GW with Apple under Jobs. A mentality that their product is superior so charge what you want and give minor changes. Sue’in anyone who got in their way. As such you create a society inside a society of people who refuse to see the broader picture or branch out of their products.

    On other side you had Apple haters, who preached all about how they were overpriced, etc etc. Too mad to realize there is some value in their products and took aggression on those who owned Apple products because of an animosity toward the company.

    You don’t see that too much anymore in the computer world with the sad lose of Jobs, maybe Kirby leaving will do the same for GW.

  • doughouseman

    Once there was a company that heavily protected its IP, it was a gaming company that focused on one gaming system and was famous world-wide. It was not afraid to sue anyone who infringed on the IP.
    It went to hard cover books to increase the sales price and constantly cranked out supplements for the system, ever more hard cover books.
    It was the king of the roost – running its own gaming conventions, and had branded kiosks in book stores and major retailers.
    Others saw opportunities in that gaming niche and turned out more compelling games, and miniatures.
    Finally the CEO ran out the founders, and the best of the writers, focused on being a profitable company.
    A few years down the road, the company had seen the sales fall as competition ate much of the market – and they were bought be a bigger company that had taken some of the core ideas and created something completely different, but highly profitable in the gaming industry.
    GW is headed down this same path.
    The name of that company? TSR, who else?