WFB: Beyond the End Times…


The End Times series literally destroyed the Warhammer Old World and almost everything in it.  One reader follows the breadcrumbs to where it may lead:

guest editorial by “Yellow”

End Times… Or a New Beginning? Predictions about the future of Warhammer

Hi there and greetings from Finland!

I would like to present you an interesting (hopefully…) theory about the future of Warhammer. This theory is based on the End Times –series of books and also on some events from Warhammer World’s history. I will present some predictions of what might happen and after that I use facts from the ground-breaking series of books and comment a little about my educated guesses. Besides fluff, I also try to predict what this could mean for players themselves and what will happen to our favorite Warhammer armies and their characters.

Fair warning before I unravel my humble predictions, though. The events that I use in my theory are mainly happening at the end of Warhammer: Archaon and therefore I might add: SPOILER ALERT!

Are you ready? Here they come:



1. “Haven” still exists…

The idea of Haven was that if the end would come, then at least some could be saved into this mystical realm in another dimension.  The existence of this another realm was the thriving factor for Lileath and Teclis during the End Times, who fought, schemed and even deceived so that others might yet live in a better world.

However, in Warhammer: Archaon Lileath tells Teclis that this mystical realm of safety is gone (Lileath says that she can´t feel its presence any longer) after the chaos gods hear about it (via Be´lakor). Suddenly their long struggle seems irrelevant as there is no longer hope for the Warhammer world´s inhabitants. As a reader I was shocked to read that it was no more… GW cut away the only hope for Warhammer´s current characters to escape the oblivion that was already surrounding them.

It´s indeed true that Lileath couldn´t sense the Haven´s presence any longer. This however doesn´t necessarily mean anything as it´s very possible that the location of Haven was concealed even from the all-seeing Lileath after the chaos gods heard from it. But who could do such a thing and why?

Old Ones, perhaps. There indeed is one earlier departure from the Warhammer world after the forces of chaos arrived the first time… that of the Old Ones. These ancient beings were said to have been like gods. They created the Warhammer world and all its races during the pre-history before they vanished when chaos came. Old Ones alone would be able to create a new world from scratch and also conceal it from the eyes of chaos gods… so they are ideal architects for a new Warhammer realm.

What if the Old Ones left the Warhammer world in the first place because they were hurriedly creating another realm to oppose the machinations of chaos gods? Even a place called Haven? We do believe that lizardmen were the prime guardians of the Old Ones but if we really think about it, the elves have played a quite big role on protecting the Warhammer world (especially during end times). Perhaps Lileath was working according to the Old Ones plans altogether? If we really think about it, the Lizardmen had their Exodus-plans which they quickly enacted so they had to know that eventually their world would fall. Lileath was also sure of this. Perhaps this knowledge came from the same origin?

It´s possible that Warhammer world had been a decoy in the first place. This could be based on the fact that when its end came, lizardmen fought quite little. They were more concerned to leave than to stop the spread of chaos with all they got. Elves on the other hand sacrificed themselves like before… and allowed the servants of the Old Ones to depart, thus buying time for them to reach their destination.


2. Our heroes are still alive…

This prediction relates quite much to the earlier prediction and once again into the very end of all things. In the end Archaon uses an ancient device (which original purpose is no longer known) in order to create a rift between realities so that the whole world is sucked into warp. When it activates in the end a huge vortex starts to rip the Warhammer world apart. Also our greatest heroes perish on the vortex… or do they?

I believe that the device might be one used by the Old Ones when they escaped. The very old age of the device might point into this fact and it would also explain how the Old Ones vanished without leaving a trace in the first place. This ancient device might be able to create wormholes or other loops, which teleports our heroes into the new realm of Warhammer, wherever that is. There is an interesting picture at the end of the book, where the remains of Warhammer world are indeed “spiralling” into multiple directions… perhaps Tyrion and the others are sent to various locations on the realm of Haven?

Malekith´s sensations are described when he enters the vortex and even though he hears the laughter of the chaos gods, it might also mean that he is actually moving within the warp. His life passes by and suddenly he no longer recognizes himself… perhaps because he has been born anew on Haven? It´s tempting to think that Malekith, Tyrion and Araloth would lead the three factions of elves on the new realm. Malekith certainly holds no love towards Tyrion and it´s possible that the Dragon of Cothique will turn against his king in the new realm, which makes three factions of elves possible again.

I personally believe that all the factions will continue on the new edition, just because GW seems to create totally new armies to 40K constantly, so new models are not an issue for them (and not all of these sell as much as Space Marines, I suspect). This leads to…


3. All our armies are intact in the new edition

I admit that skirmish might happen because of new players, but I think that all of the races will continue their path on the new edition. Lizardmen might be even led by the Old Ones which could very well mean that magic is in even greater role on the new edition (and lizzies might get new models!). Also the teleportation of the old world might mean that there indeed are different chunks of realities within this realm and magic is the way which armies use to reach each other’s realms (again focus is on magic… although there might be even more sci-fi based weaponry which functions via magical energy alongside the lizardmen space ships etc.). I also think that elves and lizardmen are the main armies of this new world, as they are its architects. Humans are little left behind on this new realm as the fate of Sigmar might predict… He´ll get there one day, but I believe it will take some time.

And chaos will arrive sooner or later. The real question is whether this new realm is ready for their coming or not…


How all this relates to new edition?

There has been rumours which indicate that new edition of Warhammer would not change too much rules-wise. There also has been rumours about new models which are limited edition only and besides all this there has been talk about bubblehammer etc. My version of future supports all this. Different chunks of realities might also mean new races, new allies and troops that are in varying shape of recognition from the eight edition. There could be endless possibilities for new encounters and the best part is that majority of this new realm would be left to discover. I personally wait with eagerness what the future holds for Warhammer and let´s see if any of this actually happens. Hopefully it has been at least entertaining if not anything else!

What do you guys think?

Regards, Yellow

  • latro990

    nah all wrong, i head first page of the 9th book

    ‘.. and zogsnot the goblin awoke after drinking 10 vials of hiz latest fungus brew and wondered what an amazing dream that all was’

    • dubsforlubs

      I would love to go back to HumourHammer the comical illustrations in past rulebooks are what drew me into the hobby.

  • plasmaspam

    I’ll write this and people will think I’m being sarcastic, bear with me coz I think it is actually close to what the author is getting at…

    Arthur Dent, “Malekith” to his mates, has somehow made it off the old world with Trillian (Lileath), Ford (Sigmar), Marvin (Nagash) and Zaphod (Tyrion) before its destroyed by the chaotic Vogon forces.

    After much huffing and puffing, they encounter the Old One Slartibartfast.

    He tells them it was all a bit of a mistake, here’s the world rebuilt, are there any changes you’d like made? Malekith tells him all he ever wanted was a happy life with his girl, Lileath.

    And so it begins anew…

    • warptide

      Chaos bypasses have to be built!

      • plasmaspam

        “…So long, and thanks for all the Tau..!”

    • 3dken

      And, what if the creator mice were actually the Skaven! I had the same idea that GW borrowed ideas from the HHGTTG for the Endtimes, and immediately thought mice = Skaven. 🙂

  • Ross Gustafson
  • ytook

    I think the device that Archaon used was something to do with the old ones ability to create. Alarielle in the end says something along the lines of ‘there is creation there, of only Lileath knew’, and says that Malekith would attempt to use this energy if he could, but she says they they’ve failed and their time is over, presumably referring to the elves.

    I think that the device is what the old ones used to create life, perhaps specifically humanity, and Sigmar grasps onto what remains of this to create a ‘human’ pocket dimension at the very end.

    The elves have Haven, the Sylvania flooded with death magic could maybe survive like this in some way, the lizardmen have their space ship temples and the pockets of jungle made by Kroak, the Skaven escape into the horned rat’s domain, Greenskins will exist wherever and the dwarfs… I don’t know are too stubborn to cease existing.

    That’s my long winded guess, congratulations if you managed to read it.

    • plasmaspam

      Could this be an origin story for the whole Warhammer universe then? All the races were originally created on one planet by the old ones to combat Chaos; now they have been scattered across the galaxy to develop on their own planets, and in 30k years time they’ll develop space travel and start knocking seven shades out of each other?

      Was the Chaos victory the Big Bang?

      • Tesq

        well this is interesting, but atm skavens location in 40k would be unknown, and dwarf would possible being all dead.

      • ytook

        I was thinking more leading up to a bubble hammer type thing, but who knows.

      • biokemnia

        In my opinion Fantasy and 40k are two completely different universes. The biggest proof of that, for me, is the “creation” of Slaanesh by the Eldar in M29.
        Or maybe warhammer fantasy is happening somewhere on an isolated planet in the M41 or after.

        • plasmaspam

          Good point about Slaanesh’s birth.

          Alot of folk have always speculated that the WFB world is just a medieval planet in the 40k galaxy; or you could just say time is irrelevant in the warp!

        • Nameless

          the larger (now plot hole I guess) is that Slaanesh exists at the same time as the elf gods. Up until the end times the full elf pantheon was still in existence, where as the Eldar Pantheon was nearly destroyed.

          In addition Elves didn’t have their souls stolen by Slaanesh before it was added as a couple of lines in the latest army books. I think it is safe to say that Games Workshop now wants them to be the same setting for better or worse

  • Robomummy

    Just pointing out it says the world was destroyed from chaos’s point of view meaning anywhere from a second to an eternity. For all we know the world will be the same except now there is a big ever growing warp rift on the planet (cough…..,chaos wastes…….cough).

    • jonathan beatty

      Well whatever they do WHFB has left my interest. I am finding any interest for the future of the game lacking.

      There is a huge difference between moving a story forward and just ending it….. Poorly. The whole last book felt really forced. Haven’t seen that bad of an ending to a series since I don’t know when.

      • jonathan beatty

        I will thank GW for something. I was not sure how I was going to afford Armada from FFG with my plans on building an Ogre army and the time since I planned on going to a couple of events. Now I have enough money to get the Base Game and Wave 1.

        But if all goes as I expect FFG will not only own the rights to use Warhammer IP but they will buy out GW when it goes under due to their own incompetence.

        Worst PR in gaming history.

        • ChubToad

          Bitter words. Have fun with Token-Wing and its various incarnations.

      • Robomummy

        well, that is your choice. I personally have invested too much into this hobby to just give it up like that. if nothing else i will go back to playing 8th.

  • Red_Five_Standing_By

    The world’s dead, Jim.

    • euansmith

      “What do you expect?I’m a Ruinous Power, not a doctor, Jim!”

      • BEAR812

        Send in the red shirts! Wait, didn’t they lay them all off?

  • Azrell

    Hmmm so they end with a human that is a shining light in the warp… know any 40k humans that create a shinning beacon in the warp?

    • ChubToad

      Could it be that Sigmar and the Emperor come together as one powerful entity? The Emperor awakens in 40k….

    • ThorOdinson

      The Emperor already has an origin story, and he’s not Sigmar. Nevermind that the two are nothing alike and share almost no abilities in common.

  • Adam Murray

    I just wish there was something solid on what was actually going on.

    • Nameless

      it would have been nice if there was a white dwarf article saying something like

      “yeah we know a lot of you are worried about the future of your game; but we have some really cool ideas and can’t wait to share them with you. don’t worry we will make sure to represent every faction!”

  • Spiritof69

    Nice article. Although I don’t know the fluff as well you do, the outcome of basically not much different feels like the right answer to me. Create a skirmish game, sure. I’ll probably play it, especially if I can use some of my current models. Throw away a 40 year old IP with the remains of lunch? Seems unlikely. Piss off a lot of customers by telling them that their thousands of dollars (or pounds or euros or whatever you poxy foreigners use these days) invested is now useless? Even GW can’t be that dumb. Can they?

    • Jason McFarland

      They do it all the time….

      • Spiritof69

        Really? I mean sure, Epic, Blood Bowl, Warmaster, etc. But freaking Warhammer? Their first product, of which 40k is just a sci-fi knockoff? I just can’t believe it until I see it. I may see it, but until then, no.

        • Tesq

          wrong war40k is their first product………
          WHF came later and it’s not sell as 40k does.

          • mannstein

            Wrong yourself. WHFB 1st ed was published in the early 80s, 40k wasnt published til ’87. By which time WFB was on its 3rd edition…

          • Michael John Lusty Smith

            Are you high?

          • Spiritof69

            I wish. Oh wait…

          • Michael John Lusty Smith

            Sorry, that was directed at Tesq

        • Bobsyouruncle

          They seem obsessed by tying down their IP to the point where they are prepared to destroy such a varied , intricate background just to create a new one that they can obsessively copyright . It’s strange because the cost of building up this new background must be considerable , surly it would have been better to invest in the existing game , Look at the new Cathay warhammer army on kickstater it looks great , GW should embrace this way of funding to expand their games . Imagine genestealer cults , Kislevites , sisters of battle or a new version of specialist games like epic or mordheim funded in this way .

          • Brandon Rutter

            Or a game with a Genestealer cult vs Kislevites allied w/ Sisters! I like where your head is at!

          • euansmith

            Don’t! Don’t! Don’t! Don’t! Don’t forget the Squats! Ooooo-oh-oh-oh!

          • Lestat

            Link to that kickstarter y please? 🙂

    • WestFargo Dave

      Ipso. Fatso.

      • BEAR812

        Space Skaven… Sounds like something Captain Kirk would have caught. Messing with them green women and all.

  • Adam Murray

    The warhammer origin story had the old ones seeding the warhammer world with the various races to fight chaos. A lot of end times stuff seems to talk about ‘cycles’ so perhaps the warhammer gods reset the cycle on a different planet. No need for bubblehammer.

  • GulMek

    Jesus christ you guys need an editor….

    • Brettila

      Says the guy who cannot capitalize… 😉

      • 3dken

        Also, he forgot his middle initial “H.” 🙂

        • Mud_Duck


  • nurglespuss

    Firstly I think your article may have a false premise, I don’t think Belakor told the Chaos Gods about Haven. He inserted himself into it to escape the Chaos Gods, and to try and wrest lordship of a realm.I say this because the chaos gods turned away in disinterest and didn’t see the speck, they didn’t know about it (Haven). In fact I think this may be really important factor of newhammer. I think ‘chaos’ as we know it might be absent, perhaps gone altogether. Its always been a (very characteristic) but limiting even hobbling factor of warhammer development. The good guys couldn’t win, chaos threatened everything, it had infinite armies, terrifying power and a gate that threatened to destroy the world. The story could only end one way, and it did. Chaos won, superficially. I think newhammer will be, skirmishish, loose alliances, no chaos hordes, good guys, bad guys, races rather than empires. That’s my guess anyway! I really hope its not the Dallas shower dream scene…. Or a ‘last battles of the warhammer world’ setting….

    • StingrayP226

      Perhaps keeping Chaos down… kind of make it Cthulhu legend like where there are small cultist sects trying to raise the gods, but they are constantly in a game of cat and mouse with the main powers. Rarely do they manifest a true deamon army… most of the time they just summon a few deamons and go rampaging until put down. However there is always the threat that cults would unify and fully summon (IE open a gate) for the chaos gods.

      However I would guess the new Warhammer will be a lot like the old Warhammer just with everything trade mark-able and “unique” to GW. I wouldn’t be surprised to see each army having very distinct looks that they can trademark that couldn’t be considered generic elf/human/dwarf faction.

      Also wouldn’t be very surprised if the new Warhammer armies looks mimic the styles of their 40k counterparts a little too closely… IE instead of guns fancy swords, but armor looks very similar.

      • Andrew Thomas

        If only Sanity-gnawing Cosmic Horror was a viable army theme in Fantasy. It’d have to be a smaller, tighter game environment, with more interaction with the terrain, and the Chaos faction would have to play like 3.5 CSMs, in that you’d need boots on the ground before you could bring in Daemons.

        • Bobsyouruncle

          I like the sound of that because it reminds of the early approach to chaos that whfb had when most of the human inhabitants of the old world didn’t even know chaos existed and insidious cults worked in the shadows to cause …..well chaos ! I was never keen on the 2 minutes to midnight , vast armies continually pouring from the north approach.

  • John Murrie

    Regardless of where WHFB goes I am completely over it now. The constant speculation & rumour around ET and 9th has effectively killed off any desire I have to play. I’m keeping my collections but the are biding their time on the shelf until the ET/9th Ed dust settles and we see what we are left with.

    • Jay

      Yeah that is what I feel and almost everyone I know. The whole setting that drew us and kept us in the game just got majorly screwed with. The companies that own IP rights to Star Wars, D&D, or Warcraft, LOTR etc. would never say everything you knew is entirely jumbled and mixed up now in a new dimension – it would be a multi billion $ mistake.

      • Mars Needs Beer

        Really? Midi-chlorians and countless other prequel plotholes disagree.

        • Adam Murray

          Nobody I know in the hobby has started a new fantasy army this year because of this confusion. GW’s own secrecy is hurting them IMO. Even if they said they are replacing all the models in my army come 9th at least I’d know.

        • StingrayP226

          How well did that work for the Series? Honestly I think things like the Knight of the Old Republic and die hard fans of the old movies kept Star Wars going.

          I mean toy companies still pump out toys of the original movies, and the most popular games are all set in the Rebellion era (X-Wing, Imperial Assault, and now Armada) NOT the new movies despite all the variety of ships/tanks/etc

  • Erik Setzer

    So… You’re writing conjecture, based on guesses with information that isn’t available, and passing it off as fact?

    Nice job.

    • Mars Needs Beer

      Didn’t bother reading the first 2-3 paragraphs, huh?

      Nice job.

      • Erik Setzer

        Didn’t bother reading the entire article and how it’s worded, huh?

        Nice job.

        • ClownBabyROK


  • Jamie Kelly

    Everybody’s dead Dave!

  • Alvin Adorno

    what if the device Archaon started was just a huge reset. It Makes the planet change its shape and resets the memories of all the inhabitants on the planet. The last soul that grabbed the shard of the world could be Archaon cause he started the device, and he gets to mould this new world.

    • Mordrot

      I really liked the fluff in the book, I was on the edge of my seat constantly. The one failing I find with it is how little Archaon went toe to toe with anyone. The fight with Grimgor was decent but come on! This is the man who strangled a bloodthirster with its own whip cause he didn’t feel like drawing his sword. He is a beast and I would have like to see him like duel two incarnates at one time episode I style like tyrion and malekith. Other than that I have no complaints.

    • Alvin Adorno

      One thing I really want to know about is that in the Archaon fluff book Belkor is imprisoned inside a jem whats the deal.

  • kaptinscuzgob

    i reckon they blew up the warhammer world so they could design a setting that wasnt just “earth with fantasy bits”
    they could get rid of the areas they dont use outside of minor fluff, like Ind, Cathay, Araby etc and replace them with something more inventive that they can actually make into interesting armies.
    I mean, the Japan analogue in WHFB is call Nippon for pete’s sake! At least this way they can design a proper setting with actual Middle to Far Eastern inspired areas instead of going “oh there is also medieval Japan but with magic and dragons”

  • ImAlpharius

    ” the thriving factor for Lileath “?
    driving or thriving?

  • WestFargo Dave

    Today’s nuters aren’t using sandwich boards like they used to, sadly. Thanks Twitter…

  • Morten Dragoth

    HOWGH, Iam bored. The End times fluff is just perfect and who cares about 9th edition. The Sundown of GW began in 2005 when their cancelled their best games…