Daemonkin: The New Chaos is HERE!

daemonkin walpaper

Hi everybody and all you D slangers (you know who you are)… It’s your friendly neighborhood Black Blow Fly here again to pontificate on Daemonkin the new Chaos !

I have been searching high and low across the warp and back again to see how the codex is fairing versus the current and soon to change meta. My current observation is it can hang with top armies while requiring a well crafted list piloted by cagey veterans. Jump on in the water is fine !!!

Here is my original army list…

Daemonkin CAD

HQ:

Chaos Lord (210)
Melta Bombs – Sigil of Corruption 25 – Collar of Khorne 15 – Juggernaut of Khorne 35 – Power Fist – Goredrinker

Herald (100)
Juggernaut of Khorne – Lesser Locus of Abjuration

Elite:

4x Bloodcrushers (250)
Banner of Blood
Bloodhunter

Troops:

Berzerkers (222)
7x Berzerkers – Icon of Wrath
Berzerker Champion – Melta Bombs 5 – Lightning Claw – Power Fist

Bloodletters (85)
7x Bloodletter
Bloodreaper

Fast Attack:

Chaos Dreadclaw Drop Pod (100)

Chaos Typhon Heavy Siege Tank (410)
Armoured Ceramite 20 – Lascannon sponsons

Chaos Space Marines Allied Detachment

HQ:

Chaos Lord (180)
Mark of Khorne – Melta Bombs – Sigil of Corruption – Juggernaut of Khorne – Veterans of the Long War – Axe of Blind Fury

Troops:

Chaos Space Marines (202)
7x Chaos Space Marines
Mark of Khorne – Veterans of the Long War – Icon of Wrath – Close Combat Weapons – Meltagun
Aspiring Champion – Melta Bombs – Mark of Khorne – Power Axe – Veterans of the Long War

Heavy Support:

Chaos Land Raider (240)
Extra Armour

This army list obviously is boosted by the inclusion of Forgeworld bringing the mighty Typhon and Dreadclaw to pack a big punch and deliver the Berserkers right where you need them most. I did well winning versus a Necron army featuring three Canoptek Harvest in my initial outing.

I want to bring Daemonkin to the American Team Championship (ATC) to see how it fairs versus the stiffest competition in the country. To do so I must drop the Forgeworld units and cut back from 2000 points to 1850 points. While I’ll miss my superheavy killing machine the new list is even more mobile and can take better advantage of the awesome Blood Tithe rules.

I am very excited about using Warp Talons for Daemonkin. As has been pointed out by Kenny Boucher Warp Talons have both Mark of Khorne and Daemon of Khorne which is kind of a big deal and no other unit has this combination… That’s a lot of solid special rules ! I have not seen anyone running them yet but think they can be competitive, especially as a deep striking unit using a Banner of Blood so they do not scatter.

Basically this unit has the potential to be better than any jump infantry unit in the Blood Angels codex with the combination of furious charge, lightning claws, invulnerable saves and Feel No Pain via the Blood Tithe. Warp Talons are way better than the Possessed and are less points ! S5 on the charge with all those attacks mean they can obliterate most enemy units.

I see Warp Talons best utilized as a second or even third wave in your Daemonkin army. Daemonkin has many fast highly mobile assault units that can quickly get to grips with the enemy. As an example you can use a big unit of Flesh Hounds as the first wave to absorb the initial brunt of enemy shooting allowing the rest of your army to get into position. Flesh Hounds are well proven too. Flesh Hounds can be mounted on the 50 mm base now which equates to crazy board control and coupled with the change to unit coherency during the assault phase makes them the ultimate multi charging unit in 40k.

If you are not buffing your army with Grimiore or Invisibilty that saves you a considerable number of points which can go towards more assault units and I feel this better ties in with the background. Ideally you want to overwhelm your opponents and the Blood Tithe provides you with lots of strong tricks up your sleeve such as free Bloodthirsters and Daemon Princes.

Warp Talons must be protected so you can get their full potential which one reason why I think typically its best to start them in reserve. Fast attack is probably the strongest slot in the force organization chart for Daemonkin so keep that in mind. I think there is a place as well for Bloodcrushers again and being an elite unit frees up another slot for your fast attack.

So here is my new pure Daemonkin army list …

Chaos Lord

Sigil of Corruption + Collar of Khorne + Juggernaut of Khorne + Goredrinker + Power Fist

Herald

Juggernaut of Khorne + The Brazen Rune + Lesser Locus of Abjuration

4x Bloodcrushers

Banner of Blood
Bloodhunter

7x Berzerkers

Icon of Wrath + Chainaxe x7
Berzerker Champion
Melta Bombs + Power Fist + Axe of Khorne

Chaos Land Raider

Extra Armour

7x Bloodletters

Bloodreaper

Chaos Land Raider

Extra Armour

12x Flesh Hounds

7x Warp Talons

Warp Talon Champion

No Maulerfiends or Soulgrinders for me… While they are both very good with the special detachment I prefer more boots and paws on the ground so to speak. I think Daemonkin has lots of flexibility. The mobile units are a huge threat to the new scatbikes so there is that aspect as well. The double wounds for Flesh Hounds and Bloodcrusher will help to shrug off some of the initial enemy torrent before they get stuck in and do what they do best. Board control means you can box in scatbikes and believe me when I say they do not want to engage in melee. This army also has tools to deal with the new Wraithknight as well.

CONCLUSION
From what I’ve seen and based upon my own experience Daemonkin is a contender if you’ve got the balls and know how. Mobility and board control are your two most powerful assets. You’ll need the heavy hitters to deal with big scary units like the Wraightknight and need to drop them on the charge before they can stomp. The Chaos Lord with Gore Drinker will be swinging S10 at full initiative plus there is good psychic protection. Bloodletters charging out of a Chaos Land Raider is insane…

KhorneMark

Skulls for the Skull God !!!

  • Salty Ron

    … Skulls for the Skull God…?

    • Havik110

      blood for the blood throne?

    • Of course of course !!!

    • WestFargo Dave

      Smut for the Smut god!

  • Kyle Goguen

    You do realize that Khorne Daemonkin aren’t Chaos Space Marines and as such don’t have access to CSM’s Forge World units right?

    • Ben Cromwell

      They might have FAQ’d it for the events hes played in

    • Kyle Hestand

      There’s been a lot of emails circulating through Facebook groups from FW. Its looking g like everything chaos that can rock a MoK might get its rules updates with BftBG and SftST were applicable. I know Samus, the new DP is getting them. Anyway his revised list is FW free.

      • wibbling

        What are you talking about? Stop using acronyms. Write properly.

        • Kyle Hestand

          LOL.
          FW = Forge World
          MoK = Mark of Khorne
          BftBG= Blood for the Blood God
          SftST= Skulls for the Skull Throne
          DP= Demon Prince
          This clear that up for you?

    • Bahkara

      If he moves the forgeworld units to the CSM CAD he is fine

      • The FW is taken in the CSM CAD.

        • Skimask Mohawk

          Except its not; you took it under daemonkin

          • It’s taken in the CSM force.

          • Skimask Mohawk

            It’s literally under daemonkin in your article. Edit it.

          • Latent … It’s okay sis .

      • wibbling

        Eh? Using this sort of language excludes people from the hobby. Please make the effort to write properly.

    • The list is double CAD – Daemonkin and CSM.

      • DeusXenith

        No it’s not, its Daemonkin CAD with a CSM allied detachment. You only have one troop choice in CSM.

      • Ben Cromwell

        To bad you can’t have a LOW in a Allied Detachment

    • Cary Gould

      Yes because those clearly cut and pasted chaos space marines, khorne berzerkers, and chaos lord are not CSM units. I can see with exact semantics and wording your point, I do not believe that is what was intended. In short as usual an FAQ is needed upon arrival.

      • Majere613

        They aren’t cut-and-paste. The units have a different minimum size (8), all have the Mark of Khorne already factored in, and all have the Blood For The Blood God rule. They also don’t have ‘Champions of Chaos’ or any option for Veterans of the Long War. So, no, they aren’t the same.

        • silentRaven

          They DO still have to challenge-BUT it’s quite fluffy-and if you lose-you get a blood point (which can give the rest of your guys +1 attack or FNP. There’s other stuff on the table too-which isn’t RanDumb!)

  • sjap98

    daemonkin berzerkers and bloodletters are 8 models minimum…(berzerkers including champion).

    • Haven’t checked points, but I’m pretty sure he means 7 berzerkers + champion = 8, not 7 with one upgraded to champion.

    • E65

      Yes, 7 +1 champ.

      • sjap98

        I stand corrected guys/gals his list is fine I’m wrong it’s 7+ champion & 7+ bloodreaper…

  • Yarrmageddon

    I was promised NEW Chaos!!!

    • Galaxy S40,000

      I keep forgetting that the definition of “new” in the context of our hobby is a new codex every 5 seconds

      • Yarrmageddon

        No there were WD induced rumors of Nurgle yesterday.

        • Galaxy S40,000

          thatsthejoke.jpg

  • vonevilstein

    “Warp Talons have both Mark of Khorne and Daemon of Khorne which is kind of a big deal and no other unit has this combination”

    Possessed also have it. This makes them s6 on the charge. Also if you use the blood host detachment you can give them 2 blood tithe special rules – an extra attack and fnp for example

    • vonevilstein

      “Warp Talons are way better than the Possessed and are less points ! ”
      Whether they are better than Possessed is debatable but what isn’t is that are not cheaper. Possessed are 150pts/unit, 30pts/model as opposed to 180pts/unit and 34pts/unit.

      I’m not a tournament player so my opinion is not really relevant but I find the idea that 180 pts for 5 T4, 1W, 3+, 5++ is competitive difficult to believe. I’m not entirely convinced that Possessed are worth their 150pts, but saying that, for one reason or another they have performed reasonably well when I’ve used them. It does that I love the models.

      I do agree that threat saturation is the way forward for this codex, as it always has been for mono-Khorne, it’s just that you get rewarded for now! With that in mind I would consider that for the pts cost of the Talons you can get 2 lots of bloodletters lead by reapers and still have 10 points in the bank. I know what I’d rather choose.

      • Majere613

        I’ve certainly found Khorne Warp Talons very effective so far. Deep striking them off a banner keeps them alive until you need them, and that 6″ Blind bubble is a nice little bonus that can really stuff up nearby shooting units. Since Bloodletters suffer in long combats due to only having 1 Attack, the Talons are an excellent followup unit.

        • vonevilstein

          True. Worth a try perhaps.

        • Derpasaurus

          hey yeah good point. The Talon’s poopy ability to blind might not be so bad insuring they don’t scatter by having a banner of blood nearby. I’ll have to try that!

    • SYSTem050

      Sorry confused does giving marks to something with the deamon special rule make them deamons of that mark? Is this a new deamon kin rule. I ask, as could i give my possesed the mark of slannesh and give them permenant rending?

      • vonevilstein

        No. It’s a combination of 2 different special rules specifically applied to Possessed and Warp Talons in the Khorne Daemonkin codex:- Mark of Khorne which they had in CSM, and Daemon of Khorne, applied only in Khorne Daemonkin.

        • SYSTem050

          Ahh thanks. So its relating to the Daemon kin rulebook. Roll on Slannesh Daemonkin

          • Grimgorn

            I hope so too, either Slaanesh or Tzeentch. Love the idea of Demonkin books, but I’m tired of all the Khorne and Nurgle love on just about everything.

          • Majere613

            I want Maulerfiends with Daemon of Slaanesh. That would be Dunestrider levels of speed 🙂

          • Muninwing

            i want them with Mark of Tzeentch, so i can buff my opponent’s army….

            wait…

            or does it give a ++?

            who knows, since they almost never hit the table.

            whatever it is, it’s sad how useless they are. here’s hoping if they get the same treatment as daemonkin their powers make sense and make a monolist remotely worth playing…

          • SithKnightGalen

            Probably both plus +1 to invulns and re-rolling 1s on save attempts…not that I would be complaining on it.

          • Ben Cromwell

            Dune striders are already slower then a Mauler Fiend. Other then on run moves

          • Djbz

            Slaanesh, Possessed gaining rending, fleet and +3″ run
            I would actually use them….

  • Jeremy Painter

    how is he str 10 gore drinker is +1 str furious charge is +1 as well so that only makes lord str 6

    • Ben Cromwell

      it eventually doubles your str.

      • Dave

        Yeah but it’s also unwieldy so how is it he figures it strikes at initiative?

        • Kr0c0

          The rule affects the bearers melee attacks… not the weapon. You get the benefit no matter which weapon you use as long as the character is carrying goredrinker. Tricksy? Yes. But pretty clear in the way the wrote the rule.

          • An_Enemy

            My scissors fire bullets because of the gun in my pocket.

            You guys know that’s bad rules writing and nothing else. That’s cool. Not my thing, but whatever. If you argued for it on the other side of the table from me I’d laugh quietly, finish the game, and never play you again.

          • Kr0c0

            You obviously haven’t read the actual rule. Though if you don’t like it I would prefer you just said so and I wouldn’t play that way.

          • An_Enemy

            I have. Its poorly written and straddling the line between RAW and RAI. We both know which side of the line most of this army’s players will fall on. If GW had intended on people starting at their own initiative and building up then they probably wouldn’t have made it Unwieldy. It wouldn’t be the first Axe to omit that limitation. And yet its there…because clearly they wanted players to use a completely different weapon? Come on…

          • Kr0c0

            Sorry. I thought it was clear. Now I see it’s grey and would probably play it your way because I play for fun. I wish GW still did FAQs. In fact I’m not buying another rule book until they do.

          • 00surpa00

            In CC you can only use the weapons special rule which confers the bonus if you use the weapon, no mix and matching.
            This is the general rule in the RB.

          • That’s not how GD works – it’s very clear. The relic buffs the users S.

          • Does this override the Rule book then?

          • It not my fault if you has a comprehension problem .

          • So your saying I should ignore the last line under” What Special rules do I have” Page 156, hard back rule book. This is a yes or no question

          • This shows you do not understand or are a troll, hence why I am not going to waste my time to engage you in discussion… this is to ridicule you only .

          • It is an honest question. Either way you have already wasted your own time. And why so hostile.
            It’s ok if you don’t know the answer. I won’t tell anyone.

          • Ben Cromwell

            Here is the rule in question
            BRB page 41 bottom left under “more then one weapon”

            “-he can not mix and match the abilities of several different melee weapons”

            Goredrikers “blood Feast” is a ability of the weapon and as such it would be hard to say it some how isn’t or that this rule doesn’t apply to it

          • Codex trumps BRB plus it is a relic not just a melee weapon. It has the properties of both. The rulebook rule s in regards to things like a power fist can’t shred.

          • I don’t thing that’s a very good example.
            A power fist with shred would have shred. anything else that guy has that didn’t have shred wouldn’t shred.

          • e.g., PF + LC

            I know some Waac players tried to pull that sheet .

          • That’s just crazy. We wouldn’t even be able to finish that game at all. I’d pack my army up. Same with how your saying that relic works while not being used. Yes it says the bearer but it also doesn’t say it doesn’t have to be used. Same with the Axe of Ragnarok.

            What happens when you get to a tournament and the judges say it doesn’t work the way you say it does? I think that would be a huge buzz kill for you. Worse still if it happens to team USA at the big game. that would be a long way to travel just to be told, “your wrong.”

          • You always follow what the judges rule.

          • I was right – you are a troll .

          • At least I have Chicken.

          • Ben Cromwell

            The codex would have to say it’s overriding the BRB for it to. Other wise it still uses the rules in the BRB. The codex offers nothing to suggest it overrides this rule. You’ll never be able to convince anyone that it is not a melee weapon that’s just silly

          • Sorry I thought you were trolling me

            : )

          • Well bless your little hart.

          • Thanks for being understanding !!!

          • 00surpa00

            The buffs are due to the weapons special rule which you are not allowed to take advantage of if you are not using the weapon.
            The weapons special rule does not say that the basic RB rule does not apply which it would need to in order to apply the Codex trumps RB rule.

          • Chaosrex

            SO you don’t want to play people for applying their rules has they are written…

          • An_Enemy

            As I said, I’d finish the game and then bow out from any further friendly games with that opponent.

            If the story behind the axe is that it’s a daemon weapon and it makes the bearer more powerful for feeding it kills its pretty common sense to me that your magic axe would not give a flying F about kills made with your lightning claw. That’s the story.

            The rules angle is that the axe has specific limitations built into its design. I know of no other weapon offhand that allows its user to ignore all of its inherent disadvantages while making up advantages at a whim on top of the weapons inherent advantages.

            You have a really cool ability thats not written in your codex. Let me tell you about it. You can play 40k any way you want. I also have this ability. I choose not to play ridiculous people. I think…the people I judge to be ridiculous will somehow manage without me.

          • dubhgilla

            But will you manage without them? If your solely playing GW games there are an awful lot of rules like this?
            Or is your opponent meant to read your mind to see if they have offended your gamer code?
            I think its you who are ridiculous.

          • An_Enemy

            Name another rule like this one?

          • dubhgilla

            What from the same codex?

            Ok what if your opponent creates a Bloodthrister from Blood Tithe at the beginning of the turn coming in via deepstrike (which is a separate phase to movement) then in the movement phase declares that its changing flight mode?

            What if you opponent gos first, assaults you with possessed roles on the table to see what they do. Then in your assault phase roles on the table again and declares as per RAW the effects stack?

            What if you opponent has the Axe of Ruin on his HQ, Turns said HQ into a Daemon Prince via Dark Apotheosis which triggers the free Bloodthirter but the Prince gets to keep the Axe so when he dies you get another Bloodthirster!? (you get your righteous indignation x 3 for that one).

            Every Codex has the same Bull would you like some Necron, totally legal, RAW BullSxxt next?

          • Zath

            Yes, the way I read it is like that too. But he has a power fist and gore drinker. Both at int 1, so he never hits at int 5

          • Lightning claw

          • Zath

            Yes, I know a lightning claw would work but he listed a power fist with the axe, so he’ll go at int 1 no matter what.

          • Derpasaurus

            the other weapon he has, a powerfist, is also unwieldy. no initiative 5 attacks for you!

    • Kevin Sherrell

      Goredrinker gives bonuses as the model (yes model not the weapon) racks up kills, at 8 kills (of top of head) you will have a Str 10, AP 2, instant Death and rampage USR.

  • Byungwook Kim

    If you field FW low, you should also expect that your opponents are using them too. Titans etc.

    • Secundum

      Nobody in their right mind would field the pieces of junk that are titans.

      • CMAngelos

        How are titans pieces of junk, exactly?

        • Kevin Buesse

          Likely he feels too expensive for the points. Personally I have a warhound with turbo lasers and plasmablast. It rarely fails to make back the points I spent on it during an apocalypse game. In general play I’d never take it.

          • CMAngelos

            I guess. That’s the same way I have my Warhound outfitted. It always does its job effectively as for regular play, I’ve used it in a few scenario games and depending on what other friends have brought. (No librarian and 2x scouts + titan to be an ultradick at 1k mind you)

        • Secundum

          Hugely overcosted for what they do, and can be killed far too easily.

      • Byungwook Kim

        Well maybe not titan. But I was talking about all the OP FW rules. Sevrin loth, tarantula aa turrets, fellblades that ignore cover etc. Integrating FW rules in competitive play is just too… too… something.

        • Secundum

          Too bad that’s the way that GW is going. Tournaments can try and keep on playing 5th edition, or they can suck it up.

        • CMAngelos

          Oh no.. a single shot missile turret that can’t blow up a flyer because it’s still ap3. The FellBlade doesn’t ignore cover, and regular bullets kill Loth same as they do a terminator chapter master with a 2+3+.

          What else is so completely OP you need holes punched into?

          • Byungwook Kim

            You might need to look things up a little more… Fellblades DO have upgrades that ignore cover. Tarantula aa is by far THE most op aa in the game, and sevrin may choose invisibility. It is very unlikely that he will die to bullets. And there are many, many others.

          • Byungwook Kim

            And just imagine, such fellblade fighting against list like above. Apocalyptic blast that ignore cover – will kill like half that army. You need to think twice before letting your opponent use fw rule.

          • CMAngelos

            I’m staring at both the Legion entry for the FellBlade, and the IA Volume 2 “warmachines of the adeptus astartes” books neither show an upgrade for Ignoring cover it only gets two types of ammunition neither of which ignore cover outright. Please, point me in which book they ignore cover?

            As for the Hyperios AA. It’s a single shot per battery that gets to re roll to hit.. so.. it’s basically twin linked. A twin linked sky fire krak missile. Scary. It’s not like it ignores jink.

            Loth dies to volume of fire a 10 man marine squad at rapid fire is more likely to kill him than anything. 1s still kill you.

          • Byungwook Kim

            I don’t know why I’m kindly explaining all this.. you obviously do not know full extent of fw rules. Look in the ‘legacies of glory’ part of the book. And I see you never faced an invisible – something before. Its not fun to play against at all.

          • CMAngelos

            because you were talking like that was an upgrade specifically for the fell blade, which is not the case. with that being said Baneblade that has the same rule already built into the tank with a muc larger template for almost 200 points cheaper. I don’t really hear you complaining about that, I suppose that’s also a broken FW rule too. No wait that’s basic now.

            also you know what counters loth with invisibility, bolted or grav cents with prescience. It works wonders.

            And if you don’t take marines. Same goes for your armies high volume attack unit ranged or otherwise.

            you’re just another case of forgeworld but hurt that would rather see it removed and learn how to play against it.

          • Byungwook Kim

            Guess insulting is your only option now huh. I play with most competitive lists and I can wipe your army out by turn3. Given the status of your intelligence maybe 2.

          • CMAngelos

            Not really, I’m staying the truth. You’re instantly writing off forgeworld as “op” likely because you have problems with dealing with specific units in the past that broke your meta. Or give you an unwanted challenge, or because your particular oponnent went out of their way to be a dick with point sink units.

            You have a problem with ForgeWorld. That’s the basic issue. Because it harshes your auto win or causes you problems. As for tabling me in 2 turns. I find most people who talk like that online usually don’t live up to the talk on the table.

            Especially if you have so much trouble against these OP fw units that have counterparts in the basic game 😀

        • Avensis Astari

          Wouldn’t want to upset that knife-edge balance in the Codices now, would we?

  • Private Skittles

    Oi! You cant say ba.lls here!

  • JP

    This codex seems to really bring the assault back into the game in a big way. The ability to seamlessly execute an alpha charge with fast daemons to pin the opponent down and then follow up with the tougher chaos marine elements really creates a dangerous one-two punch.

    • Secundum

      It’s the precursor of a return to 3rd edition, where assault was awesome, and shooting was something you did on the way to assault.
      =D

      • jonathon

        just wish there was a method of getting reliable long range shooting without helbrutes or forgefiends.

  • Huntard

    The real meat to warp talons is that they can come in off a bloodletter unit’s insturment of chaos, then not scatter because of the bloodletter unit’s banner. Making it so that when you pass reserves for one of your at least 2 bloodletter units (cheapest minimum troop for Slaughtercult) you have blinding backup for those bloodletters in the middle of the enemy…. who is hopefully also already tied up with flesh-hounds.

    Everything in the army works together not separate and I feel taking CADs with the army works against it rather than for it, especially since a Bloodhost (Slaughtercult+whatever) and a Gorepack or 2 Bloodhosts if you can get away with it in your area is a much better combination for the army’s strengths than CAD+Ally.

    Also as much as we all love berserkers, don’t take them. Just take normal CSMs instead or possibly bloodletters.

    • vonevilstein

      “Also as much as we all love berserkers, don’t take them. Just take normal CSMs instead or possibly bloodletters.”

      Hmmm don’t agree for this codex. In old CSM I’d say yes but the last thing you want with this codex is a unit falling back. It means no blood points either way.

      Replacing them with Bloodletters is certainly an option but if you want a little bit more durability, 8 zerks in Rhino work out almost as cheap if you think of them as 2 blood points.

      • jonathon

        that’s where your chaos lord or herald comes in handy – handing out fearless when you need it most=)

    • Majere613

      Both are solid in Daemonkin. WS5 and Furious Charge means Berserkers do on 3’s what Fauxzerkers do on 4’s in combat most of the time and they get a nice pile of attacks. I find Fauxzerkers best fully loaded with bolters and additional CCWs, a couple of meltas and a Combi-flamer on the Champion, which gives you a super-tactical unit that performs well shooting, assaulting, or receiving an assault, and the bolters make riding in a Rhino less of a problem.

  • Odsox

    The Chaos Lord with Goredrinker will be striking at initiative 1 because it’s unwieldy.

    I’m enjoying the book so far, played three games with it. So far my favourite formation is the Charnel Cohort, I managed to Summon/Deep Strike almost the whole formation in a conga line across the table using Blood Banners, would have been even better using Instruments of Chaos. Land one unit in the right place and you can surround the enemy or cut off an entire flank. Using both the Slaughter Cult and the Charnel Cohort (along with some good murderin’) results in a dearth of Blood Tithe points.

    I do kind of resent none of the formations using Land Raiders though, I feel like they missed a trick there.

    • You can take a lightning claw and strike at full initiative S10 once the Lord reaches a certain kill count.

      • DayVision

        What?

        • Yes it does.

          • SithKnightGalen

            Due to the Blood Feast Special Ability on Goredrinker itself. It is adding to the bearer’s characteristic based on the kill count, versus adding abilities to the weapon. At least, that is how it seems to be written as a get around.

          • Zath

            It doesn’t get the +1 str from the axe, so IF you the the double str buff it would only be at str 8

          • First it adds +1S to base S then doubles the base S… 2•S5 = S10

            Sorry if math is hard for you.

          • Zath

            The math is fine but your logic is wrong. The profile of the weapon is +1 str. It doesn’t change the lords stat line. His str is 4. 2•s4=s8. Only the axe gets +1 when its used. If you use the lightning claw, it is the users str value which is 4.

          • You couldnt be moAr wrong dude .

          • Zath

            You use the profile of the weapon you’re using in combat. Read the main rule book for dual wielding. You’re playing the game wrong.

          • It is a relic and affects the user’s S whether or not he uses it.

            Why don’t you lose that childish chin beard… looks so f00lish .

          • Zath

            cant wait to hear how you do at ATC. It is a relic weapon. You can only use one weapon profile at a time. Like I said, read the BRB. You might accidentally learn how to play correctly

          • You mite want to read the rules f00 .

          • DayVision

            Flawless counter argument.

          • Internet rules discussion – YES NO YES NO YES NO !!!

        • Ben Cromwell

          Here is the rule in question
          BRB page 41 bottom left under “more then one weapon”

          “-he can not mix and match the abilities of several different melee weapons”

          Goredrikers “blood Feast” is a ability of the weapon and as such it would be hard to say it some how isn’t or that this rule doesn’t apply to it

      • Odsox

        Oho! Evidently in my bitterness at the lack of Vindicators I missed the Lightning Claw bit. Good thinking, Batman.

    • vonevilstein

      I’ve actually found the -2 leadership on Fear pretty handy as well. Didn’t think I would.

      • Odsox

        When I remembered Fear (I’m used to fighting Spess Mahreen Loyahleests) it did prove handy.

  • Guy Ridgway

    ohhh this has helped me I was reading the Gifts of Khorne as only one 1 item from this list per model. So now I can have a Juggernaut and a Collar of Khorne…good news

  • Tesq

    sadly warp talon cannot take icon of blood as it’s not in their option.
    So they still scatter 2d6 make them a meh unit, considering blind make occure a initiative test and this is not reliable vs eldar , sm so mostly like 60% of armies around.
    Also they have both MoK and DoK but they get a 20 points increase.
    Sigh a lost opportunity for cool models to shine even on battlefield

    • Grimgorn

      He’s not using an Icon of Blood in the Warp Talon unit, he’s using an Icon of Blood in a Bloodletter unit… since Warp Talons are Demons of Khorne they won’t scatter of the Icon.

    • Kr0c0

      They don’t deepstrike off their own icon. They deepstrike off the bloodletters or bloodcrushers icon. Though your right that they may still not be effective.

      • jonathon

        with pinpoint deepstrikes, a unit of 5 can shut down a tau (firewarrior), necron or IG gunline when 1/2 their units fail their initiative check, drastically diminishing the amount of incoming firepower the turn the warp talons arrive & maybe allowing them a chance to charge the next turn….

        that’s why they work as wave 2-3. Wave 1 has bloodcrushers & flesh hounds charging T2; wave 2 has khornate CSM hoping out of rhinos turn 2 to double tap & charge T3 with some warp talons, terminators, etc to swing any ongoing combats in the chaos player’s way.

        • Tesq

          they are not reliable vs different threat tau fire warrior can be killed with less point and not initiative tested for blind, blind those 20 troops models will serve nothing as next turn+ overwath after that turn will dish out 90+ hit still even hitting at 6 they are enough to oblitarate your 5 man units; next necron. Don’t give a crap with their new shine reanimation protocol. Also this strategy required 1 units near 1 target as this strategy will fail 90% time where you are alredy in cc so you dont really need them there, or you dont have any units cos they are alredy dead.
          I said sadly for some reason…..Still 180 points for a 5 men units i’t just too much even with those bonus. This unit’s strengh is blind but it actually itself not realiable. It either need to go automatic or become d6 different test rather than a initiative test, or units need to not scatter actually make them what fluff in codex suggest they should be. Exit from warp and then assoult.

    • Chris. K Cook

      Can you even run the Warp Talon in a Daeminkin army?

      • jonathon

        I think you’re confusing the “Hell Talon” (aircraft) with the “Warp Talons” jump unit. It is a reasonable mistake to make since until this book, warp talons were only ever discussed as a joke

        • Tesq

          they are still a joke….no granade with 3+ save and 160 point cost for 5 models………………

        • Chris. K Cook

          Derp, right you are.

  • Bran D

    Milk for the Khorn Flakes!

  • sethmo

    Cultists man! Jeez the whole point is to swarm your opponent and then drop some nastys.

    • jonathon

      6ppm cultists with mandatory champion – who is aweful – or 8ppm bloodletters. The bloodletters can actually do something with a 5++ and an AP3 CCW. Cultists literally just die, so if they were still 4ppm you may have an argument, but I’d only look to taking (2) minimum squads of cultists in a skullhost detachment to serve as fodder.

  • Agent OfBolas

    there is no single thing that will make me to field Berzerkers. I can’t imagine WORSE unit in whole WH40k.

    WarpTalons? 30+ points for a model with statline of standard Space Marine? Compare them to Necron Wrights and you will see HOW they should perform for such price.

    I think I will enjoy playing against Your list with … basically anything. I think I can clear table of your models with 3 or 4 turns with my TAU (even with bad dice rolls).

    Daemonkin is one of weakest things relased for 7th edition, overpriced CC weapons in one of the worse units available. Is simply can’t be good anywhere outside “friendly house games”.

    • TweetleBeetle

      You are completely inaccurate on every account.

      • generalchaos34

        im gonna seconds the zerkers, but thats it. Beserkers are one of those units where another counterpart can do the same job for less, which in this case is regular CSM. If anything, they should get free Chainaxes, having to pay for them is a bit superfluous, or at least give them a point decrease. The codex overall could have used point fixes but for some reason they overlooked that.

        • jonathon

          For Khorne? Free chain axes (3ppm for AP4 is not worth it on a specialist unit, when other factions have that type of thing built into their price) and give them access to all assault special weapons. Bam. Done. Effective unit.

        • Berserkers are one of the best dedicated assault units in the game and well worth the points if used well .

          • Tesq

            one of the best? lol ork boyz are better than them….
            Berzerk will be unplayable until they will be able to move +run/shoot and charge, they are *** berserk they should do that.
            Stupid i2 ork do that they should do that too.
            also S model vp 4 weapons do not kill nothing i will keep my 30 points from those 10 models and do something else…….
            They sould be base in their wargear.
            considering half units will be dead will try to arrive in cc

          • I played a game versus Green Tide with two squads of Zerkers and one squad of Chosen all riding in land raider… Ended up winning. I had the Green Knight IK too. Very low model count but really hard hitting. Chain axes are actually pretty good IMO .

      • Agent OfBolas

        lol, what you are talking about?

    • DayVision

      A little exaggerated buddy.

      Possesed, khorne cultists, warp spawn, nurglings, are all much worse than berserkers.

      The codex isn’t nearly necron or eldar good, and it definitely could have used more thought but it is solidly playable.

      • jonathon

        what is a warp spawn? Is that a FW thing because Chaos spawn are awesome. Also nurglings are pretty good.

        Berserkers are bad units but honestly, only because of their limited options. If they were able to take “normal” assault weapons they’d be perfectly fine. As it is, Chaos marines with mark of khorne, double CCW and two flamers charging out of a landraider is almost always going to be better than berserkers (and cheaper , not including the transport!)

      • Agent OfBolas

        … are you serious with Daemonkin beeing close to Necrons? Or Eldars?

        The deal is – fielding Khorne based on standard Codex is far more efficient, not to mention that taking all units in to consideration, standard CSM dex will eat Daemonkin.

        • DayVision

          I didn’t say it was close. My exact words were “not nearly eldar or necrons good.”

          They each have there benefits, hounds of khorne is huge in the pros column to me but yes the possessed tax makes the formation essentially handicapped. I will definitely say they could have done a hell of a lot more but I think the standard CSM is essentially crap that lacks any cohesion, daemonkin works together a bit better. Both suffer from a similar problem, khorne isn’t the best at melee and doesn’t do anything else. CSM isn’t as good as space marines.

          • Agent OfBolas

            I’ll take standard CSM dex over Daemonkin all day long.

            With chear sorcerrers and easy access to invisibility, nurgle princes with mace, chaos lords, chrimson slaughter allies, Obliterators … Basically Daemonkin have worse options for CC army than standard codex …

    • Derpasaurus

      I love to crap on warp talons, too, man, but think: marine stat line is 12/13 a model. a pair of claws runs 30. jump packs are like … 4-6? daemon and fear special rules, too.
      Sure they don’t perform well typically, but 30-34 (depending on which book you use) is a relative steal, I think. They should be more like 50 or so a model if you paid for everything individually off the wargear table.

      • Tesq

        They are not hq and they cannot shoot, 15 point’s x arms it’s horrible. They need to move all field to go cc and they are 3+ or either deep strike and then being roll stomp by enemy saturation.

      • Agent OfBolas

        50 per model?

        LOL

        Do some math please , they will die to tactical squad fielded for their price. I think it’s the worse unit in whole WH40k.

        • Majere613

          Yes, 50 per model. If you add Lightning Claws to most models that can take them, it’s generally 15 points for one or 30 for a pair. Add the CSM statline, Jump Packs, Mark of Khorne and Daemon of Khorne and their point cost looks very reasonable.

          Sure, if you just try to run them up the table into the teeth of gunfire, then shooting units will kill them, as they should. But that isn’t the way anyone with any sense does it.

          • Agent OfBolas

            They are already overpriced in 30 points + upgrades.
            I’m really happy when someone field them on table against me, they are one of easiest earned points.

          • Majere613

            Then you’re truly fortunate to play against people who don’t know what they’re doing. That doesn’t make them a bad, or overpriced, unit.

    • Tesq

      He’s totaly right, csm units are totaly overpriced what this codex shine are formation, but hey khorne deamonkin is not csm it’s have his own faction so lul you ain’t have them.
      Also the only good things of this codex could be daemon prince with ET and fnp so to actually use fnp and inv save like a +5 reroll on s9 vp2 things and have a little bad version of 2+ save instead of a common 3+, but why?! when a nurgle daemon prince just do that as base with jink? (2+ cover + nurgle special rule). Also yu don have furies that are perfect guard fo jink daemon prince, cheap and ablative wouds.
      Crimson slaughter are still better, you can make X units fearless when they are in 6″ can give 2+ iwnt do a lord on steeds. Can make Daemon prince a possessed so let it random move 12 or gain 3+ inv. Also you can have a sorcere summon daemon with out ally. Those are tons of good stuff. That supplement is wonderfull, main issue it’s base codex, with his high champ tax, marks overcost, ICON over-over-over-cost. Some units bad design and wrong cost.
      And total los of special rule. csm have 3 special rule in may codex. Any army have special rule we not.

  • TweetleBeetle

    I’ve watched and played against a regular tournament goer testing with Demonkin against the new Eldar and Necrons. It’s not only competitive against them, but downright brutal once it gets momentum going.

    People are just mad that they can’t push-forward-and-auto-win with them. It requires thinking, and that’s “bad game design” or “imbalance” to the internet.

    • amaximus167

      “It requires thinking, and that’s “bad game design” or “imbalance” to the internet.”

      HA! Isn’t that the truth. Just wait until they start dropping memes on the table instead of dice.

    • Trasvi

      I think its more like: people like daemonkin, they wish there were more armies that required the same strategy and tactics… But they can’t exist in the same game as Eldar or Necrons

  • DayVision

    I have played a few daemonkin games and it has some strengths but 2 land raiders and 7 warp talons won’t be taking tournaments anytime soon.

    I love warp talons but they are 34pts with 13pts of survivablity. Maulerfiends and hounds are what you want.

  • Malkov

    How is your Lord swinging at Int when both of his weapons are unwieldy lol.

    If you’re using goredrinker than a claw is a cheap way to become nasty. Potentially 7+ S9 Shred Attacks on the charge with Instant Death.

  • Derpasaurus

    warp talons are NOT cheaper than possessed, they’re 4 points more. Possessed are 30, WT are 34.

    granted the stack of rules they get makes that 4 points basically meaningless. I may actually run some in my list at some point.
    Right now I’m focusing on a core of bikes and crushers.

  • Billyjoeray

    Possessed have both Daemon of Khorne and Mark of Khorne as well. So, Warp Talons aren’t the “only” unit that have the combo. I’m kind of partial to the Bloodhost detachment for the free blood tithe point per turn as well as the extra ability granted when spending them.

    Also, why blood crushers? Flesh hounds are just as fast and since this is the Daemonkin book, there is no restriction on mortals joining daemon units and vice versa, so you can run the juggerlord with the hounds for way less points.

    • Kr0c0

      For the banner of blood. Daemon of Khorne units (like warp talons) don’t scatter within 6 inches of it. Flesh hounds can’t have one, so that’s why he has the bloodcrushers.

      • Billyjoeray

        Ahhh… That makes sense. I think that Khorne Bikers would be a better fit then. They are just as fast as the crushers, T5, have guns, grenades and if you take the special formation that is part of the Bloodhost Detachment, (which would require you to take two units, but you could take a chump unit of 3 for cheap) they also get move through cover.

        I guess the only thing you’re losing out on is the Daemon USR. Seems like a fair trade to me.

        • Kr0c0

          Bikers are great. It’s a shame they can’t take a “banner of blood”. Just “icon of wrath” for them.

          • Billyjoeray

            Good point. I was under the impression that the Icon also prevented scatter, but it doesn’t I guess you’re stuck with crushers then…

  • silentRaven

    Possessed have the same combo that Warp Talons do IIRC…(mark of khorne and daemon of khorne)

    • Tesq

      And they are crap, for 4 point you get vp3weapons, re-roll wouds and always move 12.
      The only good table for possessed it’s on crimson slaughter codex

      • silentRaven

        Oh no doubt. I was just saying they got that thing too. They’re a crappy tax to be sure. You think GeeDub would just make their rules not suck to encourage people to buy them…

  • Shiwan8

    The blatant rule break in that first list makes me doubt the lists legitimacy to begin with. Unless there is a new FAQ I have missed, Daemonkin does not get any of the forge world goodness.

  • Tesq

    The only good units in this codex it’s maulerfiend with fnp5+ due to blood for the blood god units with 2 blood points and inv 5+ stop.
    This is the only improvement a codex done on csm units. And even if it’s awsome that mauler recive some love this will not make me buy this, considering it’s just a way to make spend our money when it’s likely sure csm codex will be redone and this codex will be a crap after that.

  • Skimask Mohawk

    BBF is a hack who clearly doesnt read the rules. this is shown not only by him including the typhon under daemonkin, but then insisting that its under the allied detachment when you can’t have a lord of war as part of one. He then says it’s double CAD, while being one Troop choice short in the CSM detachment.

    What an embarrassment

  • Chaosrex

    WHy you keep giving the Lord with Goredrinker a Powerfist baffles me..

    Take Goredrinker+Khorne’s Axe, use the Axe to kill stuff quickly to get the tally high and get the bonuses given by Goredrinker.

    Goredrinker give the “model” the bonuses, you don’t have to even swing it to us those, you don’t even have to use the Goredrinker to kill models and get those bonuses, the rule simply says ” keep track of all the unsaved wounds caused by your character with his melee attacks…”, not a single mention that you have to kill the models using Goredrinker.

    By the end of a few turns you have a S10, rampage, ID, decapitation Ap2 Init 5 killing machine.

    • I’ll definitely switch over to this configuration ! Thanks for the tip.

  • dubhgilla

    Just don’t face Space Wolves with a lot of CoF Thunder Wolves. They will teach these Khorne boys how to fight.

  • Horacio Rivas

    Deez nuts!

  • Here are the corrections for the original 2000 point army list pending approval from Forgeworld that Daemonkin can take a Lord of War from IA13:

    -> Daemonkin Combined Arms Detachment Chaos Space Marines Allied Detachment <-

    – HQ –
    Chaos Lord (180)
    Mark of Khorne – Melta Bombs – Sigil of Corruption – Juggernaut of Khorne – Veterans of the Long War – Axe of Blind Fury

    – Troops –
    Chaos Space Marines (202)
    7x Chaos Space Marines
    Mark of Khorne – Veterans of the Long War – Icon of Wrath – Close Combat Weapons – Meltagun
    Aspiring Champion – Melta Bombs – Mark of Khorne – Power Axe – Veterans of the Long War

    – Heavy Support –
    Chaos Land Raider (240)
    Extra Armour

    – Fast Attack –
    Chaos Dreadclaw Drop Pod (100)

    Notes:
    1) Berserkers ride in the Dreadclaw.
    2) Chaos Space Marines ride in the land raider.