40K: Space Marine HQs – “Changes are a comin…”

gw-99120101114_4

It looks like the Librarian was only the beginning.  Out with the old and in with the new.

The goodbye finecast – hello finecast trend continues.  Here’s the latest doing the rounds:

These two venerable (and metal-then-Finecast) minis are going the way of the Dodo:

 

med_gallery_79873_10492_144798 med_gallery_79873_10492_226875

Which would leave a hole in the Space Marine lineup – namely the lack of a Terminator captain.

 

Enter Strikeforce Ultra Plastic Terminator Captain Stage-left: Remember this guy?

via Atia on B&C:

How about a clampack release of the Terminator Captain from Strike Force Ultra its a figure they already have the mold for and as Strike Force Ultra is no longer available and that captain has been going for stupid money on ebay they know there are plenty of people who would purchase that figure at the £20-£24 mark…

“as far as i know, you’re spot on ;)”

 

 

med_gallery_79873_10492_92454

~ Not the most exciting sculpts, but still progress in the march to an all-plastic future for GW.

  • Necky

    $36 USD, im calling it.

    • Malthrak

      $26 if one sprue, $36 if two.

      • crevab

        I don’t think they’re suddenly going to drop prices on Marines

        • Jonathan B.

          Price would be the same as the new terminator librarian.

    • jeff white

      10 bux and i might buy it.
      otherwise, gw can pound sand.
      what a joke.

  • Talos2

    Just convert your own from normal ones

  • Sputnikwriter

    I’m not sure how many more terminator captains I need. They’re already pushing each other off my shelf.

    • am1t

      No such thing as too many terminators … captains or otherwise

  • Erikjust

    Great to see finecast disappearing.
    While it where easier to glue then metal was, it was a sort of give and take.
    Pros: Once glued together for the most part it remained together.
    The paint didn´t chip as easily as metal, so a miniature that had a kickass paint job still had a kickass paint job even after a few battles.
    Problems: It was brittle as all hell you accidentally dropped it on the floor? Well guess what a piece broke of and often a thin piece that was almost impossible to glue back together.
    Miscast, there´s a reason why citadel finecast became know as citadel miscast.
    The amount of miscasts in finecast miniatures was unacceptable, i suspect half the reason GW even released liquid green stuff was so that their customers had a remote chance of actually fixing the whole thing.

    To me the cons far outweighed the pro´s, so i for once look forward to plastic models.

    • Nameless

      oddly I have only ever had one miscast finecast miniature out of several dozen at least (a regiment of blackguard, plus some hobbit/lotr models to push the count up) but I understand others have. that said Games workshop has and does replace miscast miniatures quite happily and with minium of fuss. and its not like the metal miniatures where devoid of miscastings.

      the best advantage finecast has over metal is that it is so much easier to resculpt. a little heat and you can easily bend most parts of the model into a more pleasing position usefull for making 3 dwellers look different from one another.

      • Halandaar

        Seems I also got lucky with finecast, I’ve had a couple of small units and a bunch of character models, and only had problems with one, although I tend to stay away from finecast models with components that are supposed to be perfectly straight which may help the situation.

      • amaximus167

        It was also better than metal and even plastic when cutting up for conversions. I did a Kharn conversion that I am extremely happy with that I would have NEVER even thought of trying with the metal version…

  • Ben_S

    “The goodbye finecast – hello finecast trend continues.”

    You mean plastic, right?

  • Benderisgreat

    I’ll stick with my Space Hulk era ones that came with 9 other terms for $20, thanks.

    • jeff white

      troof.
      and china.

  • Da Masta Cheef

    Considering the lack of conversion-ability of that over-priced & mono-posed mini, how do you call this ‘progress’?

    • Malthrak

      Some people just think “plastic”, in and of itself, is “progress”. That seems to be a significant attitude amongst many.

      Nevermind the now “on par or exceeding FW” prices, often significantly less detail and awkward undercuts, coupled with tons more assembly than the older style kits.

    • Secundum

      People are obsessed with getting on the anti-resin bandwagon, even when the models are of far inferior quality.

  • Beefy

    Got more than enough command models, not that it isn’t a decent model.

  • Jake Nolan

    Overpriced stuff is overpriced. GW will never learn.

    • apackistany

      Or people will never learn. The company doesn’t make you spend you’re money on plastic. They just release it and hope it sells.

      • Malthrak

        Well, given that their inflation adjusted revenue has been on a downward trend for the last 11 years, with their peak revenue being almost 50% again what it was last year, it would very much appear that people *are* learning.

        Couple that revenue drop with the fact that prices are significantly higher (out of all proportion with inflation), and the logical conclusion is that GW is moving *way* less product than it used to.

        People are learning. It shows right in GW’s sales numbers.

        • CoffeeGrunt

          There’s more than inflation at play. I work in Oil and Gas, and the industry in its entirety is tanking due to oil prices. However, by your estimate it would apparently be because no-one buys oil anymore…

          Economics are not nearly that simple.

          • Malthrak

            I’ve got two degrees in this sort of thing and several years of business data analysis under my belt, I like to think I have at least some idea of what I’m talking about, and the situations we’re talking about are extremely different.

            Oil companies are not facing the problem of falling revenues with higher prices resulting in less product moved. They’ve got an oversupply of a commodity product (in some cases an intentional oversupply as a result of geopolitical concerns) driving prices down across the board for a relatively inelastic product.

            This is nothing like GW’s problem at all. GW doesn’t have a supply side issue. They’re not producing a commodity that’s being relentlessly driven down in price by oversupply. GW produces a relatively luxury product, with an extremely elastic demand, and their situation is far more impacted by demand changes as opposed to supply changes, supply doesn’t really factor into it anywhere near as much.

            When I was referencing inflation, I was pointing out that their pricing was increasing at a rate far outstripping inflation (in some cases when inflation was stagnant or there was actually some slight deflation in places after the 2008 financial crisis). GW being a public company, we also have information on GW’s costs, which have not risen in any sort of correlation with their pricing.

            Ultimately what this means is that GW product has become more expensive, significantly so, in real terms. What $20 would buy from GW 15 years ago, will not buy today from GW, even adjusted for inflation. Couple that with decreasing revenue (both absolute and inflation adjusted) over the last 11 years, and we get the relatively simple equation result that GW is simply moving less product. If their prices are higher, and Revenue is down, it means they’re not selling as much as they used to. Again, their financials are public, we can discount things like revenue from IP licensing and whatnot.

            This doesn’t mean that GW is going bankrupt tomorrow, but it does mean that GW is not selling product in the same quantities it was in previous years.

          • CoffeeGrunt

            Fair dues, I meant the O&G situation as an allegory for dealing with financial issues that can’t really be solved by company initiative, merely endured. Not going to claim to be anything near an expert on the economics at play.

            Part of it’s likely the market though, right? The diversity of the hobby as it is now due to the internet is likely costing GW’s previously hefty portion of the pie? I can’t imagine the rise of WarmaHordes, Infinity and other such games wouldn’t be a factor. Not to mention the bursting bubble that was LotR becoming effectively dead.

          • Malthrak

            Absolutely the market has a factor to play in that, however their pricing is also at work there.

            GW has priced itself out of “impulse buy” territory that some products used to be in and that GW has ascribed to be a large portion of its sales in the past. I’ve got probably two dozen blister characters that I picked up just for cool factor when they were $10-15. When they’re $20-36, often as much or more than their FW counterparts, an impulse buy can’t be justified anymore. Likewise, relative to competition, it costs a whole lot more to buy an ~1850pt 40k army than it does to buy a Warmahordes army, a Dropzone Commander force, or a Firestorm Armada fleet, an Infinity squad, an X-Wing squadron, a Malifaux gang, or even a Flames of War army, and most of these do much better rules support (even if not perfect). Other games existed before, stuff like Warzone and Heavy Gear and Mechwarrior, but never had the room to grow like they do now. Part of that is a change in culture and the internet, but a lot of it is also pricing.

            The death of LotR played a part, but at this point it’s effect hasn’t mattered in for several years, even by 2006/2007 it’s collapse was largely complete.

          • Halandaar

            Could it be that online and independent retailers are legitimately cutting in to GW’s revenue which is what causes these price rises? I mean, nowadays if I can get a product from a non-GW source for less, I will. Is the impact of people like me buying non-direct significant enough to create this “problem” for GW?
            I guess what I mean is, GW could be shifting the same amount of product but making less due to retailers only paying GW ~50% of the RRP on that £20 clampack.
            Seems to me like this is situation which will grow over time; I would think online discounters were less prevalent 10 years ago.

          • Malthrak

            Unlikely, I think.

            legitimate online retailers cannot use a webstore to sell GW product due to GW’s terms of trade, it must be done over the phone (or something like Ebay or Amazon), making it relatively clunky to operate, and they’ve still got to buy their stock from GW. A lot of those purchases only occur because they can be bought at the lower price, and if those sales channels did not exist, then the sale wouldn’t either as they wouldn’t pay full GW retail.

            Independent retailers are much the same, they have to buy their stock from GW, and thus a sale for them is still a sale for GW, just at not quite as high a margin. Independent retailers are also often the only physical outlet for GW products in an area, and without them, GW product simply would not be available without going online and a play space/local player base simply would not exist in many cases.

            Now GW has tried to cut down these markets to the smallest they can be through the presence of their own retail stores and highly restrictive terms of trade, but that doesn’t appear to have worked out well either, with GW’s own retail stores suffering very high rates of failure and high expenses and online retailers shifting from their won webstores to venues like Ebay.

            Ultimately, these avenues are still buying and selling legitimate GW product either way, and increases in their sales should be helping GW revenue.

            Recasters are the bigger issue. They’re even cheaper than the independents, often reflecting prices of a decade ago or more. The big thing with them however is that they’re a pain to work with and take forever.

            Another issue is that they’ve honked off a lot of independents or actively tried (and in some cases, succeeded) in killing them off to replace them with their own stores (and then their own stores ending up failing, killing the market entirely).

            I don’t believe GW has sales channel competition problem in these regards.

            From my perspective, they have a problem with pricing themselves out of the market, solidly out of “impulse buy” range, and have more competent competition than they’ve had since the late 80’s/early 90’s, and that competition is growing strongly.

          • jeff white

            how many degrees does it take to use so many words to state the obvious?

      • Aezeal

        And try to push the price up if we all keep buying it ofcourse.. it’s a business.

    • Shawn Lyons

      They have learned that people will buy $30 single models in droves. It’s up to us to stop spending the money it.

      • jeff white

        who spends 30bux on single plastic infantry minis?
        gw management must think everyone is as overpaid as they must be.
        go china… forgery world rules.

    • Something about GW’s great looking $26 characters vs PP’s blocky looking $23 characters, something something… 😉

      • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

        I don’t like PP’s miniatures either, but perhaps a better comparison is Malifaux which has lots of small packs of characters in plastic. The Malifaux models are far superior sculpts and often cheaper. They surely can’t sell more units than a GW mini, so GW must be doing something wrong if they need to charge so much to make a profit.

        • Brian Ward

          “GW must be doing something wrong if they need to charge so much to make a profit.”
          The main difference is GW has a massive retail chain to maintain that the others don’t.

          • amaximus167

            Didn’t they do that because they thought it would be more profitable?

          • jeff white

            not for long at this rate i bet… boutiques are fading. rents increasing, no one leaves their internet anymore…

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            a retail chain should enhance profit not be a huge drain that excuses high prices and needs to be propped up by income from elsewhere. If a shop isn’t making a profit it should be closed.

      • nurglitch

        Actually, I read something recently, critiquing the Dakka game, where part of the critique was about how PP’s models had evolved in a less blocky direction.

  • There was a picture of him in the Codex… it was obvious DAYS ago that he was getting replaced.

    • Not really, considering this model was “exclusive” to the Strike Force Ultra set up until the near future. They used it in WD before, too. Nothing really pointed towards them releasing him as standalone, though.

      • That is alot of time and money into the design and production of a single model to NOT sell it individually, but only with a seriously big kit that most people won’t buy or use.

        • Not the first time, really. Stormclaw, Deathstorm, all the starter boxes, they all had exclusive models. Nevermind the big army sets of old which often came with exclusive banner dudes. The limited edition of Dark Vengeance also had a special Chaplain.

          Hardly a first for them.

          • And all those were big starter sets designed to sell in large quantities, and typically used cheaper snap together models. This guy is a complex sprue.

          • Halandaar

            The Chaplain in Dark Vengeance was in the same format as “normal” clampack plastics (“complex” as you put it); as were Krom Dragongaze, Grukk Facerippa, Captain Karlaen, Spawn of Cryptus, the Execution Force assassins. Not to mention the Space Marine Chaplain that you can only get in the Reclusiam Command Squad box and the two Web-Exclusive Captains.
            I’d like to see this released as a single model, and I actually think they will; it’s just that there’s no precedent for that yet.

          • amaximus167

            That Reclusiam Chaplain is such a great figure too! They would sell the crap out of that if it was a solo clam pack. I was so frustrated by it’s packaging because I would have bought a few of them for various conversions but absolutely did not need a RB and CS. Luckily, there is eBay…

          • And the big army set of old used metal, which was much cheaper to mould

          • am1t

            Not necessarily a big kit, i.e. Reclusiam Command Squad … £50 for a plastic chaplain model … I don’t need/want the vehicle or the other minis … cheeky GW

  • mclargehuge

    Still available in the AU store. Better get one now because I am a sheep and a completionist and have a serious case of FOMO when GW stops selling something…

  • Mike Tbone Green

    $50 and its all yours. just the one model

  • Shawn Lyons

    All I want is a plastic techmarine, why does GW hate Iron Hands.

    • georgelabour

      They want to see Ferrus Mannus weep at long last?

      • am1t

        His tears would be nuts and bolts … he pees coolant

        On the plus side … FW Iron Father and Gorgons and Mk3 conversion parts/command squad … look tempting, yes ?

        • Boondox

          Although I don’t play that Chapter the FW Iron Hands figures are on my list for techmarine conversions.

    • Shawn

      I feel your pain Shawn. I really do. I play Iron Hands as well.

    • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

      I want GW to apologise for Clan Raukaan…

    • Boondox

      A plastic techmarine with different options for the servo harness would be awesome. I’ve always thought the techmarines servo harness was lacking in mechandrites and other weapons and tools.

  • JP

    HA! It took them three years to give us a separate plastic Interrogator Chaplain that came with the Limited Edition Dark Vengeance box! What makes anyone think the turnaround on the Terminator Captain will be any faster?

    • Weistber

      The current pace of release.

    • Halandaar

      The Chaplain being released with Dark Angels is COMPLETELY different from the one in Dark Vengeance.

      • JP

        GASP. One stack on the backpack instead of TWO!

        • amaximus167

          Powerfist instead of plasma pistol, robed head turned in a different direction, different robes, different details on robes, different MK or armor, different croxious held up in a different angel, different shoulder pad detailing…

          Totally different sculpts. Begone naysaying troll!

          • JP

            This was never about the details of the model. The point was that it took them forever to drop a separate plastic model for the codex unit not bundled with something else. Just like certain other HQs that are in same position or were in the same position. It took three years for the Necron Overlord and regular Chaplains, Warbosses, and Daemon Heralds are still waiting. There’s probably more I’m not thinking of…

          • amaximus167

            thank you for clarifying that.

  • That Librarian model is pretty new, I’m only halfway done painting it and I got it when it came out a couple years ago…

  • PrimoFederalist

    With that paint job, all I can think is:
    “I myself will carry you to the gates of Valhalla… you will ride eternal, shiny and chrome!”

    Immortan Joe before he let himself go.

    • am1t

      This quote should be on the cover of Necrons … Immortal Joe Dynasty

  • Boondox

    His legs and cape seem to indicate he’s moving in one direction but he’s looking behind him and pointing his power sword in the other direction. With some work he could be converted to actually look as inspiring as he should be and since it’s plastic it would be easier than Finecast. I’m disappointed overall at the monopose and they didn’t even include a helmet as an option. For $30+ I’ll pass…

  • vlad78

    And this guy is just plain ugly. Another CAD uninspired miserable failure.

    • CoffeeGrunt

      I don’t fully understand how CAD is relevant to it not being a great design…

      • vlad78

        Simple, compare this guy to all the ranges designed by hand by sculptors.
        GW CAD designed minis are rough, less detailed and their size is a little bigger to hide those facts.

        GW uses CAD great potential to design their biggest miniatures but their smaller miniatures are just clumsy.

        Compare the imperial troops (while you still can) with warlord historical minis. Watch the smallest details, the hands, the faces, and so on ..

        • CoffeeGrunt

          I dunno man, Warlord’s human minis are a joke locally. We nicknamed the Soviets “zombies” because of the horrible facial sculpting.

        • Halandaar

          Less detailed and bigger? Compare the current plastic Witch Elves to their man-handed, blocky-haired metal predecessors.

          • amaximus167

            ^^^No doubt!

      • bginer

        Missing the ‘human’ touch from the old sculpts?

        • amaximus167

          Yes, didn’t you know, servitors do the designs now, not humans…

          • bginer

            Talking about when the figures where actually sculpted during development rather than drawn up in a computer program.

            Servitors notwithstanding, there’s a difference. Personal preference I’m sure, but I have a soft spot for the old way. Look at the Urien Rakath sculpt for an example of what I mean.

  • Anggul

    Plastic techmarine would be nice

  • Enrico Rossi

    I hope they do, is the best looking terminator they ever released.

  • Jonathan B.

    Terminator Librarian is still up on the US site.

  • G Ullrich

    Forgeworld have several great Terminator “Captains” – even their named character ones like Huron are easily modified to be another chapter (I have Huron as a Salamander “Captain” for instance).

  • nurglitch

    Okay, that’s a good looking Terminator Captain. Interesting how it’s not entirely compatible with the existing Terminator kits. Kind of like the BA Assault Terminators.