Age of Sigmar: The Great Horned Rat Shivs Slaanesh

SkavenLogo

It looks like we found out who the Slaanesh replacement is. It turns out Chaos really is all about change!

Let’s put all the pieces together in one place:

First we saw this snippet from the Age of Sigmar book explaining Tyrion’s efforts to capture and imprison Slaanesh:

slaanesh-aos

Next we saw this image last week of the Age of Sigmar Chaos Pantheon – note the new logo on the bottom:

aos-chaos-pantheon

Next we have this snippet from the Age of Sigmar campaign boot explaining Slaanesh’s followers desperate search for their master.  Also note the mysterious Malerion (Maleketh+Tyrion???)

slaanesh_missing

 

 

slaanesh-aos

Finally via El Taller De Yila: spelling it out in black and white:

greathornedrat

 

So it looks like we can see what has occurred and what GW has in store.

– The Elves mount a raid and capture the Dark Prince, leaving his throne empty.

– His followers will search in vain for his master while GW allows you to use the minis, letting the entire Slaanesh concept die on the vine over the years.

– The Great Horned Rat skitterleaps into Slaanesh’s chair at the next Chaos Pantheon board meeting.

– The 11+ year old new players never get acquainted with the “indecent” side of GW’s past while enjoying a cartoony super scheming new villain, to lead what is rumored to be a new “steampunked” and rising Skaven faction.

Mark_of_Slaanesh

The real question is whether we will see this treatment move over to 40K in the future, or stay restricted to Age of Sigmar.

 

So, good idea, or bad?

  • Commissar Molotov

    Move over to 40K? Oh, Larry – bite your tongue!

    • Marky

      In the history of the old warhammer world there were the remenants of the “current” 41st millennium. That puts warhammer in the warp where time isn’t important OR in after the 41st (or at least 31st millennium)

      • Emprah

        Fanon.

      • Anggul

        They’ve been pointing towards it for years, but it doesn’t really add up.

        The old ones and the elf/eldar gods exist while Slaanesh does. Orcs don’t have an innate understanding of technology despite having arrived as spores borne upon the ships of the old ones. You aren’t born or awakened as a psyker/wizard, anyone can learn magic, and being a wizard isn’t nearly as dangerous as being a psyker, the risk of catastrophe is much less. Also the winds of magic and power being segmented in that way isn’t a thing in 40k.

        There are some things that suggest it is the case, the old ones coming from space, accidentally bringing greenskin spores and creating interstellar gates and the Slaan being foremost among them. There are a lot of things which counteract that as mentioned above though, so I’m not so sure.

        • Secundum

          It was proven true by Keldor Draigo gatecrashing endtimes book 2/3.

          • Anggul

            Well they never said exactly who it was, but I think we can be fairly confident it was a Grey Knight.

            Obviously that’s what they were heavily hinting at, and I think GW are definitely implying they’re in the same universe, but it doesn’t really make sense for the above listed reasons and more.

  • Chuck Davis

    Space skaven!

    • Grimgorn

      Hrud?

      • Adam Murray

        They would be awesome

      • Damistar

        Nope, the Xenology fluff book put an end to that.

    • Robert Thornton-Kaye

      If you’re interested in playing as skaven in 40k, please bookmark my site and check back on it in a few weeks: https://fandexes.wordpress.com/ I’ve done 2 Fantasy dexes so far and a lot of people have requested skaven so I’m working on it atm.

  • Andrew Thomas

    Stupid. Really stupid. Unless they burn down 40k and Horus Heresy with it, that just ain’t happening.

    • Corey Bailey

      Hopefully slaanesh has again risen to power by the year 30000. I really dont see them killing 40k lore too

      • Marky

        Evidence points to the warhammer world and realm being POST 41st mileneum.

        • Corey Bailey

          im ok with that too

        • crevab

          What’s the evidence. In the past GW ‘s said they share lore but are different settings

          • Marky

            Plasma pistols, space pyramids etc being ancient artifacts. Gods being born in 30k and ending(?) In wfb.

          • crevab

            And in my Liber Chaotica, the 40k bits are mad visions of the far future

          • Adam Murray

            Not ending just waxing and waning in power.

          • euansmith

            Slaanesh; not ending, just waxing and shaving…

          • Adam Murray

            Not lubing tho slaanesh likes to go in dry.

          • Adam Abramowitz

            You never read the Realm of Chaos (1988 and 1991) books…

          • Peter Bejmuk

            Yea, one of the chaos gifts of Khorne (WFB world) was a lascannon or chainsword….

          • oldgrue

            or a missile launcher with infinite vortex missiles…those random charts were monsters…

          • Malisteen

            Slaanesh was born around the year 30k, and is prominent in warhammer lore, putting it post year 30k if they are interpreted to share a universe. One of the prizes in the albion campaign was clearly a power fist. Several of the daemon characters cross over between the systems. In the end times, the elves encountered an unnamed hero in the warp who bore a striking resemblance to Kaldor Draigo. A semi-popular heretical theory is that Sigmar is a reincarnation of a portion of the Emperor’s spirit, divine in nature but lacking the Emperor’s full knowledge and power until the husk of his previous body is allowed to pass on.

            So yeah, if they line up at all, then they’re contemporary. The warhammer world was a ‘feral’ world, not a world ‘from the past’.

      • Nathaniel Wright

        Well, in theory Slaanesh didn’t exist until 30,000, when the Eldar created him.

        • Alex Harvey

          Slaneesh was born as recently as 1,000 years prior to the Horus Heresy?

          • crevab

            When Slaanesh was “incubating” the galaxy filled with Warp Storms. His birth cry blew them away allowing the Emperor to advance from Terra

        • Anggul

          I suppose it’s possible that he died, then the Eldar created him anew. That would kind of rob the Fall of a lot of weight though.

          It has been said that because the warp doesn’t follow time as we conceive it, Slaanesh exists at all times and no times.

        • Drew_Da_Destroya

          Yes, but remember that Slaanesh also always existed within the Warp, so he’s just as old as the other gods, despite them all being born at different times. The Warp is funny like that.

          The theory about the Warhammer World that I like the best is that it’s a planet that exists within the Eye of Terror, and is therefore within the Warp. So it exists concurrently with 40k, but it’s held in its own little pocket of Chaos for the Gods to play with.

      • Adam Abramowitz

        30,001. The calendar goes 1-1,000. Before 1 CE, was 1BCE.

        • cbb

          Except that the 40,000 number (and all numbers derived from it, such as 30,000) is not based on the Common Era system.

          To quote Rogue Trader (and elsewhere that has reprinted it), it is 40,000 years since “the first man stepped out into the cold of space”.

          Other conventions of the date system that we use is not necessarily the same in the future. Indeed, the idea that there is no “year zero” in the Common Era system is a modern one.

    • Marky

      That stuff was pre warhmmer in my opinion.

    • Peter Bejmuk

      GW’s planned this for a while even in 40K. Read the Harlequin codex. Some crazy glowing prophecy book in the Black Library opens and reveals a new ending to the Eldar End Times/Rhana Dandra. “Victory of Chaos during the last mythic battle… Cegorach’s ultimate jest, a way to trick Slaanesh into expending all her power not to destroy the Eldar, but to save them.

      And time isn’t linear in the Realms of Chaos. Slaanesh has always been around, his birth just happened later in the “timeline”.

      • Alexgrunt

        The latest craftworld codex seems to hint at this too…

        • UberTek

          Iyanden book also

  • Corey Bailey

    Ok D#!@$it,Ive been super positive to this point. I can deal with the new rules, I can deal with the new models, I can deal with all of it, But I wont stand for this!!!! Dont mess with the gods.It may be time to switch back to 40k. If they switch it in 40k…. I honestly don’t know what Ill do

    • Someone

      Please this is just lorry being a sensationalist d@*#ck as usual – all this means is that GW Is setting up a future part of the AOS storyline where the campaign evolves around freeing slaanesh, undoubtedly with some awesome new models.

      • Jordon Arthur Lewis

        “He’s doesn’t like what I do, he’s being a d#ck”

        Nope, that’s you Someone. That internet bravery is strong with this one.

    • Peter Bejmuk

      Harlequin codex already spoiled this in the 40K setting too

      • David Leimbach

        The last thing GW needs right now is a 40k revolt too. They had better think hard about that one.

        • Atogrim

          I doubt the care about the “revolt”.
          Most of the new stuff was sold out in an instance. I guess that makes them right for the moment.

          • David Leimbach

            Not at my FLGS it didn’t. The fantasy players here aren’t too happy I think.

            You mean AoS sold out there right?

          • Atogrim

            Yeah. My FLGS got picked clean of it and the german webstore also got sold out fast untill they restocked it.

      • BrianDavion

        no it didn’t. 40ks proably not gonna move at all. 40k alludes to all kinds of stuff, that never actually will happen

        • MPSwift

          Fairly sure a lot of fantasy players assumed similar until the End Times…. 😛

    • Spacefrisian

      Start buying more Slaanesh, GW share holders will notice and eventually will demand Slaanesh return. GW will listen to the sound of coins in there wallets before listening to what fluffmongers want.

      • Corey Bailey

        I own TONS of slaanesh

    • Me

      Can you stop whinning?
      If you don’t like it i’ll show you out!
      You haters won’t be missed!
      Slannesh was super boring anyway.
      This is so much more exiting.
      If you would have liked Slannesh to stick around, you should have bought more Slannesh models!

      For the record. I believe non of those things I wrote.
      I just wanted to show you how it is if YOU are on the “unhappy” side.

      • Corey Bailey

        I KNOW YOURE MAKING A POINT AND ITS A FAIR ONE. IN MY DEFENSE THOUGH THE ONLY REASON THAT IM SAYING ANYTHING ABOUT THIS IS THAT IT COULD(NOT SAYING IT WILL) HAVE AN EFFECT ON 40K. THERES NO REASON FOR THEM TO BLOW UP TWO GAMES TO TRY AND MAKE ONE SELL BETTER. 40K IS DOING ITS JOB AT LEAST LEAVE ITS FLUFF ALONE.

        • Porty1119

          Caps, dear sir. My eyes, they burn.

          • Corey Bailey

            sorry was on phone at work and was trying to comment quickly

  • Ken O

    With a giant emperor’s children painted csm/daemon army, this is total garbage. There’s already a chaos god of blight and pestilence.

    • deris87

      And a God of violence, and a god of excess (or was), and a god of intrigue and deception, but the GHR covers all those too.

      • Nathaniel Wright

        That proves it, the Great Horned Rat will take the place of the Chaos pantheon. Khorne, Nurgle, and Tzeentch disappearing and Larry stretching it out over the year incoming.

        • Skaven master race.

          • euansmith

            SQUEEEEEEEEEEE!!!

          • Spacefrisian

            Next up, 2 more seats are added, one for the Deceiver and one for the Nightbringer, we dont care that they arent warpspawned beings or completely opposit of warpspawned beings, those 2 are stil evil anyway….Than a certain Greyknight comes around and tattoos his name on them inside a heart shape (cause carving it in with a sword isn a very nice thing to do), we also negate the settings btw.

  • “The Great Horned Rat skitterleaps into Slaanesh’s chair at the next Chaos Pantheon board meeting.”

    Ha. Awesome. That mental image alone makes it cooler.

    • AircoolUK

      He’ll also pretend that he’s always been in that seat, and ‘most certainly is in charge’.

  • deris87

    It’s part of the narrative, Slaanesh is still out there just captured by Tyrion. I’ll believe Slaanesh is gone for good when I see it. There’s hardly been anything “sexy” to Slaanesh in years anyway. If anything, it’s more an excuse to kick the GHR up the ranks to be the new god of Chaos Undivided–so Skaven can be lumped into this unified Chaos faction–and Slaanesh will get back to his/her rightful position as the plot progresses.

    • David Leimbach

      They want to see what kind of player base they have (if any) before they make the final decision about which side of sexy the new Slaanesh will be on.
      Or maybe they’re scared of some feminist going ballistic with a viral article and branding them as games for pervs.

      • Atogrim

        Mothers of America against Slaanesh. Yes, i can see that happening, lol

      • BrianDavion

        thing is it’d be easy eneugh to alter slaanish in a way that wouldn’t be at all odd. “ok so slaanish has gorged himself on souls so much she’s begun to be depicted as obese more often then not.” blah blah blah. and basicly focus more on gluttony then other excesses boom problrm solved

        • euansmith

          “Ladies and Gentlemen… the Dark Prince has entered the building… via the rear entrance…”

  • Dennis J. Pechavar

    So there is now two gods of pestilence?

    • I was wondering this, as well.

    • hamilton geyser

      and scheming

      • euansmith

        Them rats are pretty angry too… and magical…

    • Moik

      Two gods of Pestilence, and two gods of conspiracy. So fricken’ redundant. Slaanesh has such a cult following, no pun intended.

    • Atogrim

      Yeah but the GHR is just the better, more awsome one ^^

    • AircoolUK

      I always saw the Horned Rat as a bit of everything. Sure, Pestilens was a big fan of disease. But Eshin with cold blooded killers, Moulder with it’s love of mutations and, erm, change, and Skryre with their doom killing machines of doom.

    • Mathew G. Smith

      GHR doesn’t have pestilence in his portfolio anymore. Every rat who worshipped him as a god of plagues died fighting the lizards, they didn’t make to the end of the old world much less the new one.

      • Dennis J. Pechavar

        Thought the special character(name eludes me) didn’t die and was hidden away somewhere?

  • Nathaniel Wright

    This guy is one of the people that gives Slaanesh the uphill climb. He’s the one making horribly indecent jokes on anonymous forums while the people that play the faction cringe and just try and keep their head down. The worst people for Slaaneshi daemons/CSM are the people that don’t even play them.

  • Marky

    Larry sounds like he prefers violence to sex?

    Indecent is IN the eye of the beholder.. some might say it’s indecent to sacrafice strangers to your blood god.

    I feel it’s my moral duty to point out that warhammer gods are not good role models for kids.

    • Nathaniel Wright

      All it’s missing is the politics angle and it could be a George R.R. Martin story. GWs stuff is, by definition, not child friendly. The only parent that would buy their kid anything related to this game is one that either knows the content, or is no better than the ones that let video games raise their children.

    • crevab

      He’s in Texas, right? Here in ‘murica we show recorded murders on TV but still bleep the swears. Heaven forbid a titty

      • Nathaniel Wright

        Whoa, hey, don’t put that on Texas. If you’ve been to a concert down here, you’ll know full well that we have no problem with titties in public places.

        • Marky

          I guess to some of the rest of us it sounds like a view that might be tainted by religious fundamentalism. The odd standards of what’s ok and what isn’t are hard to understand for someone on the outside.. Eg breastfeeding in a cafe vs flashing at a metal gig

          • Nathaniel Wright

            It’s not fundamentalism that’s doing it. It’s thin-skinned crybabies that weren’t told by their parents that sometimes the world is going to offend your sensibilities, and you’ll just have to get over it. It’s people that throw others under the bus for their own sick amusement.

          • “t’s thin-skinned crybabies that weren’t told by their parents…”

            AKA: Religious fundamentalists. “We don’t like it so you can’t have it, either!” is often their battlecry. See: Alcohol, homosexuality, nudity or anything having to do with a healthy sex life, actual science, etc.

          • Nathaniel Wright

            Friend, I come from a religious fundamentalist family. I was told that the world is an awful place, filled with awful things and awful people… And then they told me that sometimes it’s just something you have to avoid. It’s -not- religious fundamentalists.

          • JN7

            Not always or not just religious fundamentalists, sure.

          • Autumnlotus

            Not all religious fundamentalists are prudes and bad people, but there is a sizable chunk of them that aligned with that spiritual persuasion. It’s why religion and persecution generally go hand in hand for radical protests and hate crimes

          • Ben

            I’d also add into the list of whiny crybabies: liberals, environmentalists, hippies, feminists, LGBT community, etc.. Basically all modern western culture has come to the point where everyone can be offended all the time.. What’s worse we let elites in government take away our liberties so that no one can be offended…

          • Michael Gerardi

            Very true.

            But I’ll say one good thing about these whiny crybabies of modern western culture: at least they don’t go around KILLING PEOPLE who “offend” them. Unlike the worst crybabies of all and the RL followers of the blood god . . . .

          • Me

            Hey mate. non american here.
            Could you do me a favor and define what liberal means?

          • Ben

            Well obviously a liberal is someone who loves rainbows, unicorns, “free speech”, and fuzzy wuzzy kittens… and anyone who disagrees with them is a hate monger, racist, neocon who pushes old ladies off cliffs and keeps women barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen…

          • 6Cobra

            Yes.. “obviously.” Congratulations on the worst definition of anything ever. You at least would have gotten a few points if it had been clever or funny.

          • Ben

            And hank you for proving my point….

          • Michael Gerardi

            A classical liberal favored limited government and individual liberty, and thus would be on the political right in the US (i.e., a modern conservative). Unfortunately, the modern liberal wants the federal government, and government in general, to have more and more power over our lives — with them controlling the government, of course, because they know better and are morally superior to everyone else — and thus is on the political left. The farther left, the louder and more intolerant the liberal.

          • Me

            Thank you! That was helpful.

          • Marky

            I just often see similarities between the fundamentalists of all different flavours and people who try to stop others enjoying their lives in ways that harm no one.

            I don’t have anything against anyone who claims to be a fundamentalist – provided they have a live and let live mentality.

    • Corey Bailey

      No kidding How did Slaanesh get the axe and khorne was somehow acceptable to children.

      • hamilton geyser

        because this has nothing to do with children.

        • Autumnlotus

          Except it does, its been stated several times by GW reps that the company is aiming for a younger demographic

        • Corey Bailey

          U have nothing to do with children

          • crevab

            Oh, so that’s why I was having trouble understanding your arguments in the past few threads.
            Despite claims of age, you’re a 10 year old, aren’t you.

          • Corey Bailey

            Lol no 30 just a 10 year old mind. Im over arguing about dumb stuff. If he doesnt agree than fine. I just wanted to make myself laugh and that comment did it for me. Geez ppl need to calm down

      • Zachary Alvarado

        Like the great South Park episode once said:

        “I guess parents don’t give a crap about violence if there’s sex things to worry about.”

        Truly a backwards culture…

        • crevab

          That’s what I was thinking too, but GW is in the UK afterall. They’ve got nudes in their newspapers
          So…? Man, I dunno

          • Bobsyouruncle

            Not any more we don’t , page three with the nude photos was removed from newspapers for the final time in Britain last year . That made Slaanesh a sad panda !

          • crevab

            Oh? I was in NI this past October. Those pages helped me deal with being stuck with family all week

          • Michael Gerardi

            I am shocked! Truly, the sun has now set on the British Empire!

            I wonder which whiny complainers brought this about . . . .

      • AircoolUK

        I was wondering this as well. Looking through the AoS book, there seems to be no blood in the artwork.

  • JP

    A giant rat gets to be a chaos god? MALAL! Get back in here! We got some rat chaos that needs to be CHECKED! Into the boards!

    • Nathaniel Wright

      Remember when they lost Malal due to a shoddy copyright? GW does.

      • crevab

        and that still didn’t make them get their act together 🙁

      • JP

        Is that why Malal vanished into the abyss? I wasn’t in Warhammer at that time. How did it happen?

        • Nathaniel Wright

          Basically, the story is that the creators of Malal jumped ship and took Malal with them, planning on using him for comic books and such.

      • vlad78

        Remember when GW lost quite a lot of players due to shoddy copyright issues? It’s happening right now. ;p

        • Atogrim

          Yeah and that’s what i still doubt.
          Plus: all you old players don’t buy stuff anymore.
          Same for me. My Skaven army is done. Didn’t buy skaven stuff in ages. Ok, two of the end time minnies, i admit. But that’s it.

          • AircoolUK

            The last Skaven Army Book was before 8th as well.

          • Atogrim

            Sad but true. But you know what? I can expect MOAR new and shiny skaven stuff now that the GHR ate the dar prince 😉

  • crevab

    If the dark gods watch the Mortal Realms from the haunted void, where the heck was Slaanesh that they could just walk up and net him?

    • Nathaniel Wright

      Kind of why I’m leaning on the whole thought of this Slaanesh being an avatar. I mean, how many times have they stomped an Avatar of Khaine just to show how kewl the Space Marines are?

    • Corey Bailey

      Mortals can go to the realm of chaos. Its been done a few times in the fluff

    • Mathew G. Smith

      Tyrion is also a god now. Don’t know what his allies are.

  • TheMawr

    Could be wrong on this but I still truelly believe all of this has to do with aligning AoS into 40k’s mythological past more than with anything else.

    Slaanesh gets captured, elves forget, elves become eldar, slaanesh influences from within, eldar become mad with lust, fall of eldar, slaanesh (re)born.

    Realmgates/dimensions – Webway portals/Different planets
    Sigmar’s stardragon buddy – c’tan (or not) Void dragon (maybe) of mars

    • Corey Bailey

      I hope youre right about SLaanesh. This posty is bringing up an interesting debate about the timeline too which I like

    • hamilton geyser

      Similar flavor but not the same world. It just doesn’t line up with 40k’s fluff no matter how hard you try.

      • Tynskel

        wait… why does it have to lineup? Almost everything in 40k is contradictory…

    • Shawn

      The only thing wrong with this reasoning, that I could see, is that Earth still exists, and is the birth place of humanity.

  • joetwocrows

    Removing She Who Thirsts from 40K, removes a great deal of rationale for the Dark Kin, also a bit on the seedy side for pol-lite Society, allowing a reconciliation of the Eldar (talk about a Par-Tay!) and letting GW drop and streamline a product line and become a little more kid-friendly for the eventual buy-out.

    Shame. But, that’s GW.

    • Nathaniel Wright

      Eldar, Dark Eldar, Iron Hands, Emperor’s Children… A lot of factions have been influenced by Slaanesh, many in ways that would change the entire direction of the respective warbands/chapters/races.

      • joetwocrows

        Exactly. But Gods come and Gods go, and the Game remains. The Necron Shards prove that.

        • Nathaniel Wright

          We’re still talking about killing a God. Sammy ‘Grimshadow’ Killdeath, even as an incarnate, shouldn’t just be able to go willy-nilly killing gods, assuming the Chaos Gods can actually be killed at all.

          • joetwocrows

            So? In a completely different universe, have you read ‘American Gods’? Gods die. They lose.

            In the GW universe the incarnation, or avatar as some as mentioned, of obsession with sensuality, whether sexual or beauty or food, or, etc, etc, has been Slaanesh.

            Perhaps the retcon is the force of Eldar extravagance has now diminished to where a ‘God/dess’ of Pleasure cannot maintain that incarnation. Perhaps Slaanesh could only be sustained by Eldar emotion, and the human seductions were simply not sufficient to the task. Perhaps the Eldar have now reached some kind of tipping point.

            In that kind of scenario, a mortal could very well provide a ‘killing blow’. Dunno. It’s a story, not reality. (so far as I know!!!)

          • Nathaniel Wright

            That’s honestly an interesting take on it. If it were just a matter of Eldar/Aelfs being the only thing he can draw from, we wouldn’t have humans throwing themselves at him as well. Hell, why would he expend energy on something he couldn’t somehow get a return on? (blessing Sigvald and Fulgrim).

          • Peter Bejmuk

            Captured, not killed. Same as Isha, basically.

    • hamilton geyser

      Except Slaanesh hasn’t been removed.

    • joetwocrows

      Hamilton wrote “Except Slaanesh hasn’t been removed.” And the mod
      thought that did not think that was a contributory remark. But I
      disagree for the following:

      You are correct… to
      this point. But you’re missing my point, I believe. I believe it’s in
      GW’s better business interest to align its product line with what
      Society wants to buy for their children, so it can sell itself to a
      mainline toy company.

      I hope GW retain the DE, that’s what I
      play. But, I’m not hopeful. Especially with AoS, and the generally
      accepted ‘fact’ the Dark Kin are the weakest army, even for experienced
      players and get a little weaker with each new release.

      • Nathaniel Wright

        Wizards of the Coast are not above selling something that is far more risque than Slaanesh. Neither is Hasbro. The companies that could possibly by Warhammer have some pretty questionable stuff on their product line already.

        • joetwocrows

          I musta missed the Hasbro stuff. But you have a point.

          • Nathaniel Wright

            A lot of it has been accidental/questionably shaped which really doesn’t have an excuse. They also handle the Star Wars toys (meaning Slave Leia’s jubblies on display). Point is that these companies aren’t above publishing something much more suggestive than Slaanesh.

  • Skalathrax

    Slaanesh just got carried away snorting warpdust and attending orgies. He’ll be back with a massive hangover.

    • Nathaniel Wright

      There has just been way too much fanfare for ‘removing’ Slaanesh. What was the last faction to be completely removed, Squats? They didn’t even get their own little blurb about why they were gone until 6th edition.

      • Skalathrax

        yeah if he was removed he would have been removed and never talked about again not hinted at in the fluff that he’s just gone on holiday.

      • Ben_S

        Squats were effectively removed with 3rd ed 40k Chaos Dwarfs and Dogs of War were more recent.

      • AircoolUK

        Squats were too much of a joke. Short, fat ‘double denim’ bikers crossed with Yorkshire miners?

        They were like those Monty Python Yorkshiremen doing Sons of Anarchy.

    • Senexis

      Man, I must be too much of a Slaanesh devotee. I read an entirely different word to “hangover” the first time through…

  • The14th

    So minor sexual themes and body horror are indecent, but brutal evisceration, blood sacrifice, and somewhat more terrifying (or at least nauseating) body horror is kid-friendly? That is some crap logic.

    • hamilton geyser

      Thats assuming they were taken out to make it “kid friendly” which is absurd if you think about it for more that two seconds.

      • The14th

        Sadly, Fantasy & 40k are not much less kid friendly than the Bible. But us heathens are the ones who get hated on.

        • Shiwan8

          Actually Warhammer franchise is a lot tamer than Bible. Warhammer chaos is just emotions getting the better of living beings.In Bible there is some seriously deviant stuff that is not only allowed but also suggested heavily as a modus operandi.

    • Catowar

      Lets be honest, the AoS rules ARE very kid friendly. Remember mageknight? Well AoS is mageknight 2.0

      • The14th

        I was talking more about the lore, which isn’t kid friendly by today’s “standards”. Personally I have no problem with it, but I grew up among people who treated me with as if I was capable of thought.

    • If sexual themes were the problem they could just redirect slaanesh to other aspects. Slaanesh isn’t about sex but about extreme feelings and sensory perceptions. Just think of the Noise Marines. They jam to “music” that literally breaks other peoples bones.

      If sex were the problem we’d just get an army lead by Skrillex.

      • fabiobile

        Except sex is the only thing that most players think about when it comes to Slaanesh. We know it’s officially about excess and pleasure of all kinds, but sex is what the vast majority of people think about.

        • Shiwan8

          And when the word “alien” is mentioned most people think about Giger art based movies or gray men. People being sick about their own imaginations restrictiveness should not be a reason for killing something that is a major part of the appeal of the game. Chaos just is not chaos without the original quartet.

      • euansmith

        Noise Marines are awesome. A plastic kit would be great… Get the band back together!

  • Dave Scammell

    Soooooo if this concept makes it into 40k… Does that mean the Harlequins win and finally calm down with the whole dancing thing only to then (somehow) accidentally unleash a tide of gerbils, rats and hamsters into the streets of Commoragh?
    I’d be curious to see the Eldar backstory retconned into one humongous, galactic-scale form of pest control.

    • hamilton geyser

      I wouldn’t say no to Skaven in 40k.

      • Dave Scammell

        Neither would I, but that would involve GW doing the unthinkable and potentially progressing the plot past that 999.M41 date the storyline’s been stuck in for 25 years… (And without obliterating a whole game system this time, please)

        • Wilma Lang

          “(And without obliterating a whole game system this time, please)”

          After seeing the aftermath of The End Times, I’d rather GW not advance the 40K plot.

      • Hrud would be awesome…

    • Nathaniel Wright

      From the Masters of the Universe to the Orkin man.

      Wonderful.

    • joetwocrows

      Not rats. Mice. To answer unanswered questions……

  • Catowar

    Welp, that’s it then. RIP fantasy, I’m taking my 4k Slaanesh deamons over to 40k.

  • georgelabour

    All I can say about these theories is.

    Diablo 2 had a couple of expansion pack covering lost gods, and every ignorant twit on the internet loves to drone on how about how Blizzard invented orcs and tyrannids.

    • Shawn

      This I got to hear. I only started playing 40k at the end of 5th ed.

      • Peter Bejmuk

        Legend is that Warcraft 1 was originally a Warhammer RTS but GW pulled the license last minute after their other licences bombed. Blizzard changed the setting to Azeroth and has been poking GW references in every game since (“This is ma’ Warhammar, an I bought it fer forty kay””)

        • Shawn

          Gotcha. thanks.

  • N. Thanks

    So it sounds like the GHR is a combo of Nurgle and Tzeentch? Pestilience+Tricksy Scheming
    Shame he doesn’t get something more original….

    • Nathaniel Wright

      Nurgle, Tzeentch, and Khorne (Violence).

      • Autumnlotus

        To be fair they are all violent. I would say it fits if true: khorne would hate the GHR since his followers retreat constantly and never fight fair or with vigor

  • Distracted Satrap

    This should be taken in context with the rumours that they’re going to be focusing on narrative campaigns in the near future.
    I’m predicting a Skaven vs. Slaanesh storyline, when the Prince returns to claim his throne.

  • Slaanesh_Devotee

    But something doesn’t add up. The symbol on the wheel picture doesn’t look anything like the symbol on the snippet about the Great Horned Rat.. Hm~

  • TweetleBeetle

    Oh for crying out loud. Talk about the negative bias based on absolutely nothing.

    “– His followers will search in vain for his master while GW allows you to use the minis, letting the entire Slaanesh concept die on the vine over the years.

    – The Great Horned Rat skitterleaps into Slaanesh’s chair at the next Chaos Pantheon board meeting.

    – The 11+ year old new players never get acquainted with the “indecent” side of GW’s past while enjoying a cartoony super scheming new villain, to lead what is rumored to be a new “steampunked” and rising Skaven faction.”

    That’s not what’s happening at all. This is simply GW setting up an obvious narratives and future campaigns.

    The fluff, description, and imagery of Slaanesh stills exists, so the 11+ year olds can and will be easily acquainted with him/her. Furthermore, Slaanesh isn’t going anywhere in 40k, which is located on the shelves RIGHT NEXT TO WARHAMMER!

    Anything to spin it negatively, however.

    • 6Cobra

      We’ll see, Tweetle. You’ve been flat wrong in your predictions about pretty much everything before.

  • chris2155

    Slaanesh is too pivotal in 40k. Fantasy, not so much. GW would have to rewrite everything. Fantasy was a loser for a long time. 30k & 40k keep the investors happy, helps not to piss off that crowd. The hh is about 50% covered..killing off one of the gods half way through wouldn’t fly, not to mention, skaven don’t exist in 30-40k

    • Aezeal

      In 40K the Eldar and Harlies and some supermega weapon hidden somewhere, maybe with help of Gray Knights could kill/imprison Slaanesh too… it would be fitting to the story.
      And it wouldn’t be bad writing either since the eldar do not like Slaanesh

      • Shiwan8

        Few arrogant pointy eared narcissists killing/imprisoning a god that half of their kin actually support to the extreme, fittingly and whether they know it or not. Seems unlikely.

  • Shawn Pero

    My gauge for whether I think something in AoS is bad is: does it make WFB players pissed? If yes, it’s awesome.

    • Shiwan8

      Please do elaborate.

      I personally did not care about the game and actually feel that killing the block party as it was is healthy just because the system was ripe for “raiping” in so many ways that a normal person likely can’t even fathom it. Bad systems need to go. I just do not think this new one is any better.

  • SacTownBrian

    Nah, maybe we’ll see skaven and seraphon in 40k though.

  • Drew

    Wait and see before we assume the sky is falling. Remember that AoS is supposed to have different campaigns that will actually advance its story- I would be shocked if we don’t see a “Return of the Dark Prince” story somewhere down the line…

  • Matthew Gillaspy

    Do I even need to explain why the very idea of replacing Slaanesh is ridiculous? Its like getting rid of the color blue and still thinking you’ll be able to make purple. And to add insult to injury they rip off nurgle in the way they describe the horned rat and aren’t even trying to fill the void they’re creating by removing Slaanesh. I assume everyone who knows the amazing lore of the chaos gods feel equally insulted and pissed off.

    • Autumnlotus

      Honestly this is depressing, since the great horned rat has always been in the portfolio of Nurgle and tzeentch. Him being an equal is plain stupid

    • Retconned Legion

      Good thing Slaanesh hasn’t been replaced. BolS has been pushing the “Remove Slaanesh because of the children!” angle for a long time, and that bias is affecting how they view this fluff. The Horned Rat has replaced no one. Slaanesh being held captive is a fluff hook for when they introduce the Aelfs. They just gave two factions a reason to despise each other.

  • Tynskel

    Hrud Hrud Hrud Hrud Hrud Hrud!

  • Michael Gerardi

    SQUAT-NESH!!!

  • AKOF

    That rat better watch it, it’s stepping on Nurgle’s and Tzeench’s toes with all that pestilence and scheming and whatnot.

    • COsteve

      Tzeench might care, but Nurgle is probably just happy to see more plague go around… Although Nurgle approaches it from plague = life whereas for skaven plague = death. So maybe there is a bone of contention there.

      • AircoolUK

        Meh… just put a warpstone sniper bullet through their heads.

        There’s more to Skaven that plague.

  • Michael Gerardi

    I am now officially FED UP with the term “kid-friendly”! Keep adult stuff for adults. Keep kid stuff for kids.
    If GW thinks its best future market is rug rats, they will find out otherwise. To their cost.

    • AircoolUK

      As far as I’m aware, GW hasn’t mentioned kid friendly anywhere. Not only that, but AoS is aimed at the same group of players as 40K, which is, 12+.

      I’m thinking that Slaanesh models just weren’t as popular as other ranges, especially when Dark Elder had a better vibe (even though they weren’t high up in the sales chart).

  • benn grimm

    http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/tabletop/reviews/14300-Warhammer-Age-of-Sigmar-Starter-Set-Review-Lovely-Models-Lukewar.3

    An objective review of AOS from outside the community, been waiting for this. Sadly they’ve pretty much confirmed what many of us unblinded by brand loyalty saw already; lovely models, middling game, terrible generic lore with very little to get invested/immersed in.

    As for this ‘ongoing Slaanesh saga; nothing that happens in AOS means anything; if Tzeentch got eaten by a beluga whale it wouldn’t mean anything.

    • Retconned Legion

      Outsider or not, it’s still one persons opinion. It’s not “confirmation” of anything but what that person thinks.

      • benn grimm

        It carries a bit more weight than just one persons opinion. The lack of obvious bias for one thing makes it more pertinent than any AOS article on BOLS so far.

        Seeing as how they’re looking to expand the audience, the opinion of those coming at AOS from outside the wargaming crowd is worth paying attention to. For me anyway and I’m sure many others. Otherwise its just a bunch of circle-jerks on BOLS telling each other how great they think something is and how little the opinions of anyone who doesn’t feel the same, matter.

        • Retconned Legion

          Nope, it’s still just one opinion, just like every other review out there of anything. Now if you have similar tastes as him, then it’s useful since you’ll likely feel the same, but to suggest it somehow adds weight in favour of an argument is an appeal to authority.

          • benn grimm

            Its not a matter of taste and how would I know whether or not my tastes match the author? Also I have no argument to make, I just like to read non-biased reviews. As a warhammer fan, I clearly have a bias, as a…whatever you are… you have a bias. This guy may or may not, but wonderfully, whatever that bias is, he left it at the door and was objective. Hence it has more weight/value than my or your opinion or any opinion piece article here on BOLS.

        • AircoolUK

          It’s still on persons opinion, and like most journalism, it will reflect the loudest opinions because they just want ‘the public’ to agree with them.

    • AircoolUK

      It’s tough to get into something that’s only just been introduced to everyone.

      Warhammer came from the usual D&D/Tolkien stuff with a dash of Britishness thrown in. 40K just came from Warhammer (initially it was only going to be 4K, not 40K in the future).

      AoS doesn’t really have much of a connection to the other games, so comparing it to 30+ years of background is pointless.

      It’s like pilot episode, or even a first season of something… You look back at them years down the line and it usually compares poorly to the cool stuff you’re used to.

      It has to start somewhere.

      10 years down the line and all the current haters will be like ‘yeah man, I was into AoS before it was cool’.

      • benn grimm

        I think you make some interesting and well thought out points. And awesome fact there, never knew it could have been called 4k, sounds so lame in comparison.)

        Warhammer was like a gestalt being; the brainchild of many men; some of it was very DnD, some of it very much wasn’t. If you were into DnD, that aspect probably stuck out for you, and visa versa. It was lots of other things too. D n D wasn’t original, neither was Tolkien, they all draw on the same vein. Originality of subject is meaningless, originality of approach is everything, and they had an original approach. Much like Discworld or GOT or lots of other great fantasy worlds.

        Of course a reboot will be compared to its predecessor, that’s just the nature of things. For a long term fan who enjoys the game its a pain, for the guy who didn’t really like the game of WFB but liked the models its great. But I find it interesting to see it from a view point without warhammer vested interest. And the pilot episode of GOT was awesome, everybody said so.)

        I’d say the connection to the other games is pretty strong, its basically 40k-lite without any particular limits or valuation on anything, with characters from warhammer fantasy. The mechanics aren’t really new in any way, they just omit lots of things which bring character and dare I say it, fun(imo).

        Who knows? Maybe. I don’t even need to wait ten years, if its going strong in five, then bang, I’m on board…;) If they do an epic scale version of it like Warmaster, I could well be tempted.

  • Pacer

    I don’t understand why people believe that Slaanesh (more than violent, bloodthirsty Khorne) is the indecent side of Warhammer and therefore has to go to make the game more acceptable to children. Exposed nipples (on women) are bad but violent bloody slaughter is acceptable? I really doubt Slaanesh is being cut, especially since you can still buy those models. So far it looks like they are just developing the story and creating room to further advance it in a meaningful way. With this done they can now create a story where Slaanesh’s followers try to free their deity or ascend to the throne.

    • Retconned Legion

      Short answer? Thousands of years of religious indoctrination teaching that sex is bad, killing is okay.

    • David Leimbach

      Patriarchy.

      No idea why really. It just seems to be the answer to any recent ‘why blah blah sex” question lately.

  • Adam Murray

    Space Skaven?

  • latro990

    Seems to me like they spent 30+ years creating a setting, a rich history and this stuff sounds like the result of some fan fiction of a drunk forum poster…

    • Aezeal

      Ow something happens.. who cares things evolve who cares if they let one god be captured after 30 years. I think this rumor is exactly what is happening. I’m don’t agree (see pacer below) tha slaanesh is the worst influence.. but it’s clear that in countries like the USA nipples are considered worse than violence and GW acts on that.

      • latro990

        If something evolves into a turd, I think anyone who has invested even a modest amount of time and money should probably care.

        What if they singed a deal with Disney and a portal opened and this appeared.. would that be evolution? lol no it’d be the next set to GW not being GW anymore.

        I aint bitter, Fallout 4 is out soon that’s 2 years of my life probably gone.

  • Sigismund716

    The entry for the Great Horned Rat there doesn’t prove that he’s replaced Slaanesh- just that GHR is now officially part of the pantheon of Chaos Gods. Given the events of the End Times, that’s hardly a surprise. Granted, the former could very well be the case anyhow, but I don’t see the screenshots- screenshots with their surrounding context removed- as being conclusive proof.

    Moreover, if this were the case and GHR is replacing Slaanesh, then why keep the sigil for (presumably) Malekith/Malerion or whomever on the wheel as opposed to GHR’s three-stick-glyph? Why go through the process of writing Slaanesh officially into the new lore as a prisoner in the plane of shadow (which sounds a lot like a compartmentalized campaign setting- complementing Khorne vs the Stormcast in the plane of fire and Nurgle v Alarielle in the plane of life, as have already been mentioned) instead of the more direct deposition or destruction route?

  • chaos0xomega

    Im not convinced the Great Horned Rat is suddenly gonna jump into Slaanesh’s throne.

    • SwervinNinja

      Agreed. Have you seen that throne? It’s gross.

  • Andrew

    Again, I reiterate. I sincerely doubt they would remove a faction from two games that has a complete model range in plastic. (EC/Noise Marines excepted) This is a plot point, I can see it coming from a mile away. Somebody is going to “free” Slaanesh, and then all hell will break loose.

    • Retconned Legion

      I agree. It’s not even subtle. Tyrion captures her against Sigmars advice. Slaanesh’s worshippers are looking for him. A usurper appears to have taken her place. It’s a campaign waiting to happen. If it were meant to get rid of She who thirsts from AoS, the fluff would be “Tyrion saw his chance and killed Slaanesh”.

      • Andrew

        Who wants to bet that usurper is Morathi? That little blurb about her in the Khaine book didn’t sound like she was actually consumed to me, and she was known to consort with daemons.

        “Against Sigmar’s wishes” sounds like this is going to pan out really bad for the Elves (Or “Aelfs” or whatever…) and definitely won’t be the end of Slaanesh in the Warhammer Fantasy setting. This writer really seems to have it in for the Dark Prince…

  • Peter Bejmuk

    Putting Horny™ as the new direct opposite of Khorne doesn’t make sense to me at first, but Skaven are pretty much the embodiment of cowardice (lead from the back, hide behind slaves, scurry away to live), which is the antitheses of the Blood God.

    • David Leimbach

      Ha Ha ha.

      No we know why there are so many skaven.

  • Retconned Legion

    Er that doesn’t say the Horned Rat is taking her spot. It just says it’s part of the chaos pantheon. There is also the matter of the symbols not matching up.

  • Horus Lupercal

    While Slaanesh feels integral to the 40k lore, has never actually been in sync with the fantasy world…
    I think this change is good and doesnt actually has to do anythng with toning down “sexual” theme rather the I dont know what to do with him theme…

  • COsteve

    Maybe that fourth icon just represents an empty throne.

  • Robert Duke Newnham

    I just think slaanesh got bored and went for a walk.

    • Retconned Legion

      A sexy walk.

      • Chris. K Cook

        An excessively sexy walk!

  • Bobsyouruncle

    What I don’t understand is where do all the emotions that first created Slaanesh now go , do they just disappear into the void ?

  • Badtucker

    I don’t see anything that states he’s actually replaced slannesh?
    If he had the symbol on the star would be the horned rats. Current one looks like a broken slannesh symbol.

    • Shiwan8

      Well, the lore does not explicitly kill Slaanesh. It’s just imprisoned. In few years they can just make a fluffy entry for it in a way that is less tied to peoples sick imagination linked to 80s slaanes descriptions.

      • Badtucker

        Hoping for a war where skaven,slannesh and elves are all involved. ..

  • Artur Kushukov

    I expected something like that since the new daemonettes. Still have some old ones somewhere.

    • Chris. K Cook

      The new ones that look sexier then the ones before them?

      • Artur Kushukov

        Definately not.

  • It can’t move to 40k because it is too entrenched in the Horus Heresy series

    • MPSwift

      Not necessarily, 40k is, by definition, 10000 years after the heresy. If the Eldar found a way to “kill” Slaanesh after all that time they could take it and it would have no effect on the Heresy timeline. It would effect the 42nd Millennium though.

  • Urban Bungledorph

    I don’t understand what the horned rat brings to the table that Nurgle doesn’t already control.

    • Chris. K Cook

      Stuff that Tzeentch already does?

  • Shiwan8

    I hope this does not affect 40k it would be immensely boring. “Suddenly in stead of daemons of chaos there were rats, rats everywhere, breaking their teeth while trying to bite power armor and getting electrocuted while chewing power cables.” I can just see how orcs develop an autowin button in a form of some sort of cheese thrower. The hard counter for space scawen would literally be cheese.

  • David Leimbach

    Is the new symbol a guy flipping the double bird?

  • kevinharoun

    I’m glad to see Slaanesh go. Hope she gets the same treatment in 40K.

    • Shiwan8

      Why? I mean all the chaos gods are manifestations of human tendencies. Slanesh is not hard core-god. It’s a god of excess. Excess is pretty much possible in any thing. You can go overboard in maxing or minimizing an experience. It’s just the lack of imagination that leads to people thinking that it’s solely or even predominately about boobs etc.

      • Chris. K Cook

        Spot on. It’s why the Word Bearers are in the Book of Excess, even excess of faith is bad.

  • Atogrim

    ALL HAIL THE HORNED RAT!
    And no, no space rats. THe idea is….argh…Larry, please.

  • Arthfael

    As a 40k player, if Slaanesh is removed from 40k, I’ll leave too. However, Space Skaven does sound fun, and there were cool, steampunk versions in Jes Goodwin’s artbook long ago.

  • ColonelFazackerley

    Odd putting Horned Rat in the same category as the other chaos gods. Seems like his remit overlaps Nurgle somewhat.

    • Shiwan8

      “Somewhat” meaning it seems to be exactly the same. 😀

      • Chris. K Cook

        Not exactly. He also overlaps with Tzeench’s remit.

        • Shiwan8

          Well, yes, that too.

  • Ben_S

    What about Hashut?

    • Chris. K Cook

      Who? You just Started the Hashut clock.

    • David

      Gesundheit!… lol

  • AircoolUK

    I don’t think it will move to 40K… I mean, there’s no Skaven in 40K, although many people have asked for them. Be careful what you wish for?

    Steampunk Skaven? I can happily live with that.

  • BrianDavion

    “pestilance incarnate” ohh look a double dose of nurgle *yawns*

  • AircoolUK

    Just as planned…

  • MikeHollstrom

    I hope Slaanesh corrupts the aelfs >:D

    • Slaanesh_Devotee

      That’s my (last) hope, too.

  • AircoolUK

    Looks like it’s going to be Skaven vs Nagash.

  • So GW has no problem with cannibalism and bloodshed but Slaanesh isn’t child friendly enough?! Okay people, I propose the following hypothesis – GW marketing and writers are smokin’ the ganja. Discuss.

    • AircoolUK

      The whole ‘child friendly’ thing hasn’t come from GW. Just like the whole ‘big rule book’ nonsense; it’s just theories made up by the internet.

  • Anasa

    “Pestilence and treacherous plots?” What does Horned Rat bring to the table that Nurgle and Tzeentch don’t (with a rat skin, admittedly)?

  • Emprah

    GW seems to be separating Fantasy and 40k all together.

    I hope the stupid fantasy stuff won’t affect 40k, I don’t want my orks to become durruks.

    On the other hand, Space Skaven would be awesome. Under Imperium’s Slyest, the Stormvermin Ratminators with Ratling cannons.

    Anyway I think they are separating the two totally.

    But yeah, Horned Rat seems redundant, as in he is a mashup of Tzeentch and Nurgle. Tzeengle.

  • deuce1984

    Slaanesh was always my favorite Chaos deity and served as one of those 40K elements that made me feel like I wasn’t playing a children’s game. 40K better not follow suit.

  • Horus Lupercal

    I still dont think that Slaanesh is out…I think that the whole witch elves range along with morathi somehow will become the new pleasure Host…The circle sigil feels “feminine” so I think it will be used to depict a female God and the intertwined horns really look a lot like morathis headpiece…

  • Agent OfBolas

    Another “great” GW idea from “How to broke our game” series…

  • houseofpaine

    Slaanesh replaced by a big horned rat. Somehow, this evokes the same feelings in my as when Roger Moore was replaced by Timothy Dalton.

  • Bugsculptor

    So there’s Nurgle god of decay and plague… and The Horned Rat… god of rats. Isn’t there a big risk of them turning up to a chaos party wearing the same frock?