The Longbeard’s Lament – A Goodbye to the Old Warhammer Tournament

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Time to face reality, it’s gone guys . . . we either move forward with the times or move onto different things.

How many of you have been playing Warhammer for around 20 years? Seems like a lot of us.

There is a lot of discussion in our gaming group right now. Mostly, now what? This new Age of Sigmar looks kind of cool, looks to be kind of fun even, but where are my points? How are we going to play this in a tournament? I know, we’ll create one! I mean the ETC created a comp right, so let’s create our own system! And so it begins, go online and you’ll find lots of gaming groups out there coming out with “comps” or “points” so that they can play this new AoS game using their old concepts of Warhammer. There was even an “email” sent by GW detailing how individuals can still play balanced games. Whether or not this actually comes from GW (I seriously doubt it) it was obviously released just as a short time fix. Once the Big Rulebook comes out, there will be no need for a “point” system as the full game will be out, and it will not require points to play.

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“There is no doubt in my mind,

and I believe there should be no doubt in anyone’s anymore,

old Tolkien style Warhammer is dead.”

 

There is no doubt in my mind, and I believe there should be no doubt in anyone’s anymore, old Tolkien style Warhammer is dead. Gone. Finished. Caput. There is now this new, high fantasy, Harry Potter, anything is possible fluff/design/art, that will be a completely different game. Even the concept of us trying to create “comps” or “points” so that we can fit this new Warhammer into our old concept of a tournament is flawed. This new game was probably not designed with this in mind. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if GW finally acknowledges that tournaments are important to build the business, but the tournaments they host will be played using AoS rules exclusively. They will not assign a point system guys just so the old long beards can keep playing their old school tournaments. This is not what they want, and it seems to me it’s plastered enough on the internet that this is basically fact. The only way, and I mean only way, GW is going to release a point system is if this game flops, they admit they made a mistake, and basically go back to the drawing board and redo the game again, and truth is at this point I highly doubt that. AoS is already gaining enough traction that it will support itself and if it gains a foothold amongst the youngster . . . well kiss your “point system tournament” good bye.

Again, this is not the end of the world. We might start playing this new style of Warhammer and really like, maybe even more than the old; but thinking the “community” will invent a point system and our concepts of Warhammer tournaments will continue? That might work . . . for a while . . . but in two years I don’t see anyone playing a point style tournament with AoS (unless of course GW does a 180 which may happen, just unlikely). We have to stop trying to fit our square peg into GWs round hole (no sexual puns intended). 🙂

What are you guys doing in your community? Are you guys devising a point system? A comp? Or are you waiting for the full rules?

  • John Spangler

    I fervently disagree. I hope my local tournament scene will continue playing with a well-comped 8th Edition, and with good sportsmanship and fun times attract new players just like we always have. I got into WFB through Mordheim, YEARS after it was dropped by GW. Nothing is stopping us from keeping our preferred game alive, except for defeatist attitudes like this column.

    • Psytox

      Sounds like a plan!

    • Da Masta Cheef

      Exactly! Our local group is gearing up for GorkaMorka right now!

    • cypher623

      This! 100x

    • Fabulous

      good luck, i personally like AoS and hope both our games can fit in

    • Anakai

      This works in a handful of communities very well but overall the warhammer community is aging and not adding the young blood that it needs to in order to survive in the marketplace. And in a majority (though not all) of communities having the core group of players stick to an older system and attempt to bring new players in under that old system will only create complications. Storeowners will be attempting to sell the newer systems to potential new players. But then the gaming group will operate under old systems and old rules. Potential new customers will be confused by this and on the whole go elsewhere altogether. That’s not to say all will but the market has suggested that the majority will not just adopt an old system and this “old guard” mentality only hurts the overall community at the macro level, even if it works at the micro level in a few instances.

      • PTFO Inspector

        Well then Warhammer can go out as it should have done in a blaze of glory.

  • Bobsyouruncle

    Warlord Games are working on a fantasy version of Hail Casaer called Shadow Storm , they have done rules for Ogre Kingdoms , Skaven , Cathay , Nippon , Norsca and Araby so they could be worth a look .

  • Spacefrisian

    I think this new AoS opens up the attitude of “i dare you” to balnce the points for each model, Lets see what peeps come up with on the matter of points. I would be suprised if they could.

  • Psytox

    It may just spur certain sections of the community to collaborate on what 9th could/would/should have been in their eyes. Yes there are challenges in this notion but I think it would be rather exciting. The first objection would be how difficult it would be to find a pick up game, but now that it’s kinda impossible, why not take advantage of the vast online community and make something that caters for those who wanted something different from an updated rule set?

  • Raspoutine

    You don’t need points or comp limits to balance AoS, you only need 2 things. First is pretty obvious, the elite infantry need to be max sized so as to leave a place for troop choice. Second is to limit deployment zone sizes, depending on the size (and length) of the game you wish to play. Let’s say you want a medium size game, you play a 12″X12″ deployment zone.

    • Thrawn

      doesn’t really work like that. as of now i can take whatever i want, and as much as i want, so can we play a game where i have 300 models and you have 25? probably not. so you introduce a “wounds limit” but that’s also not good. 100 wounds of Phoenix Guard will tear thru 100 wounds of goblins. and so it gets harder and harder to fix, so that ultimately your left with having to assign points to introduce balance . . . something GW has thus far refused to do.

      • Raspoutine

        you can’t deploy once you run out of space in your deployment zone, hence the proposition to limit it. you can only deploy 225 minis in a 12″X12″, assuming 20mm bases.

        AoS is very rock-paper-scissors, and any spamming strategy is doomed. If you just field 225 PG, a Reavers spam is going to eat them for breakfast.

        • Thrawn

          ya i see what you mean by the deployment restriction, but that’s just the same as the wounds restriction. my example of 100 PG was just being rhetorical. what i meant is if there is any restriction to army size introduced this is little motivation to take “core” choices, as wound for wound (or size to size using your idea of deployment restriction) some models are just much better then others. there need to a point system introduced if there is any chance of playing a balanced tournament game.

          • AircoolUK

            Over time, people will work out what the ideal unit size is for each warscroll.

          • Raspoutine

            “some models are are just much better then others”
            because that never happens with a point system?

          • Autumnlotus

            but the same could be pointed at both sides. 8th edition wasnt perfect. but AoS made it WORSE

      • AircoolUK

        1. Agree on max squad size.
        2. Use Battalions – agree on a number to use.
        3. Don’t use the legacy Warscrolls.

  • Orodruin

    So… just keep playing 8th edition tournaments, I guess. If you were already playing the game and more or less happy with the rules, what’s to stop you from continuing? Not a WFB expert, so maybe there are still army books which are out of date or something?

    • Da Masta Cheef

      I think Bretonnian players would be the only ones in the ‘out of date’ category, but by this point I’d say that they’re used to it.

      • Orodruin

        Dang! It’s a shame they left one book out by the time the End Times arrived. Brets are awesome.

      • John Spangler

        Beastmen are also well behind the curve, as the last book of 7th Edition.

        • generalanvilpants

          Skaven are/were operating on a 7th edition book as well, although arguably a much more competitive one than Beastmen.

          Beastmen could always use the End Times alliances with Daemons & Chaos Warriors group permitting and that brings them up many tiers.

  • Love the new direction. Not like the long term player base was worth the effort anyways, it just sux for the long termers thqt were actually worth it but if I learned anything the last few years they were the minority anyways.

    • Da Masta Cheef

      And Minorities don’t matter right? (unless you’re one of them)

      • Lol not touchin that one

        • Da Masta Cheef

          😀

      • ronin_cse

        I’d say when we’re talking about customers they don’t. If the majority buy your product that’s what really matters

        • Porky_Poster

          Not if the remainder go to a rival and help build them up, especially if keeping that remainder happy would take little extra work.

    • vlad78

      Alaric, you’re a fanboy. ;p

      Just keep serious will you?
      Long termers who remained faithfully until GW latest backstab were just the tip of th iceberg of all the players who left wfb before that because of GW behavior, because WFB became worse as each edition came, because they didn’t like the way wfb was heading and so on…

      I’m sure a good portion of the players who are part of the gaming community GW is striving to gain as customers were previously wfb or 40K players. I’m not sure AOS will interest them.

      • AircoolUK

        Last GW thing I bought was the Necron and Dark Eldar Codexes. Not because I was playing those army (although they’re two of my favourites), but because I just wanted to complete my collection.

        I’d had enough of endless dataslates and whatever, and there were so many better and cheaper games to play; I can remember building some Wyches up into a Dreadball team.

        It wasn’t until last weekend that I changed my mind on AoS. Once I saw what it was (and could read the rules and warscrolls), I reserved a copy. I’m not particularly enamoured with the starter mini’s as Space Marines and Khorne aren’t amongst my favourites, but it cracked open the wallet again and it’s still open now.

      • You are correct. im a fanboy. But I dont love the company like most would believe, I like to look at their decisions from a business perspective as i own my own business as well. Ive told good customers to take a hike cuz they behave alot like most of the people who whine their butts off aboot GW. And Im doing just fine with waaaay less zeros behind my margins.
        The fact you think you were “stabbed in the back” just shows me that you think you are more important than you actually are (NOT trying to be insulting, thats DAboarders job lol, just making a point) to them. You are just a number to the large companies, quicker you learn that the happier you should be. They owe you nothin but the product they sell.

      • Jabba

        I thought 8th was amazing I only really had a problem with 7th, the earlier editors were good at the time.

        8th for me was the golden age of warhammer. the level of complexity in the movement phase coupled with the way units worked in combat created a very epic feel to the game. My only complaint is cannons and death magic plus a few of the 6 spells. Me and my group are comming up with a fix for those. I do think there was some unbalance in the codex but unless you were power gaming could easily be avoided by a savy player.

        I only hope that enough of the WFB stay strong and keep playing.

    • cypher623

      I have been player Warhammer for 20+ years. Over that time I literally spent tens of thousands of dollars on GW products. I promoted tournaments, offered painting lessons, arranged demo games, and ran campaigns to get people interested in the game. I provided thousands of dollars in prize support for tournaments. I can, without fear of contradiction say I personally brought 200+ people into the game, and that estimate is low.
      Now I won’t be doing any of that and neither will the vast majority of “long term players”. They lose my money and my social support, and they don’t get any new people from my area because I won’t be recommending GW to anyone. Lets see if, in the long run, I and others like me, “don’t matter.”

      • In my last sentence I say I feel for you dude, unfortunately, like I said, you were the minority. You prove my point tho in your over inflated sense of worth. They will be fine, never as big as they were but they will live just fine without you 🙂

        • Wilma Lang

          I’m not sure telling paying customers to “GTFO, we don’t serve your kind here!” is a viable long term strategy.

          • sleeplessknight

            They’re not telling potential customers to GTFO. They’re telling that to the suckers that already spent their money.

          • Working just fine. Its a big world.

        • Algernon Bumbry

          Your vastly underestimating the importance of an enfranchised player base and basic customer services especially in the age of social media. GW dose not exist in a vacuum They are losing key players like crypher623 who will go from being a big booster in his area to booster for other companies. Yes on a macro level he may seem like just one number but on the micro level of a local gaming community disgruntled can poison the whole community against a company and in the age of social media that poison spreads rapidly to the macro level and then companies fail.

          • my attitude is: F*ck Social Media, its a bane on society and is making weak willed people make stupid decisions. Thats just me tho lol. There are more new cyphers to take up the torch. Its a big world. I agree with what you say, I just dont think its as big as you are making it out to be.

        • Cannibalbob

          Dwindling in size and relevance is NOT fine when you are a privately traded company.

          Your business is fine with the choices you have made because the business most likely answers to you. So since you consider your current situation as fine then that makes it so.

          But GW’s main responsibility is to it’s share holders and shrinking is very rarely what ANY shareholder wants. Shareholders want to see their investments grow. Stagnating investments don’t do them any good and negative investments are terrible. If an investment is stagnant then the best course of action is often to divest yourself and reinvest into something better.

          • Which they did. I agree with what you say aboot the shareholders. Im just not blaming them for not pursuing their old time clientele. Sorry if I wasn’t clear on that 🙂

  • Benderisgreat

    The books and minis didn’t spontaneously combust in everyone’s bags and cases.

    If you want to keep playing it, keep playing.

    Hell, play the previous editions.

    • Jabba

      Damn right I plan on doing that I have not even delved yet into the fan made army books out there like Nippon and such.

      We got years left of play for 8th and maybe even more with sone community collaboration.

      • AircoolUK

        Then go back to the first edition and it will be like a whole new game 🙂

        • Jabba

          Still have a 1st edition rule book I can borrow :p

          Seriously though as long as you have a few like minded friends around with some models you can keep the game going.

          Will not miss the tournament scene as here in Australia that has been dead for a long time.

      • Wilma Lang

        You inspired me to do a bit of Googling and I found an awesome website: http://warhammerarmiesproject.blogspot.com/

        • Jabba

          Yeah I know it’s amazing isn’t it and man some of those army books could put a GW book to shame. There is even decent fluff in them.

          • Wilma Lang

            Now I just have to figure out if there is a 40K version of this.

          • Bobsyouruncle

            I’ve been using these rules to run an Estalian army using plastics from Warlord Games Pike and Shotte range for a while . They are well balanced and pike blocks look great on the table top and have held their own against everything from gobbos to bloodthirsters .

        • Autumnlotus

          All I have to say to that is this: I already have an Amazon and Dogs of War army made for these rules. 1550pts for the former, 2600 for the latter. Some newcomers tend to whine about “OP fandexes”, but they usually end up sticking to chaos warriors or high elves and murder me anyways. the trick is to have fun, even if it means making a non-competitive list to fit your fluff or enjoyable playstyle

        • Michael Gerardi

          Thanks for that link!

    • Aaron

      you can even acquire them digitally now they are out of print without it really being stealing

  • Da Masta Cheef

    Ya know the 8th Ed rules still work fine…or did you and your buddies prefer an older edition? Well then play that one, what’s stopping you?

  • Badtucker

    Why don’t the long beards create a living rule book…. much like the blood bowl community has.
    New rules etc for the new models.

    • Da Masta Cheef

      Especially considering how many 3rd party Blood Bowl teams are out there, if anything Blood Bowl is thriving as well as, if not better than it did with GW’s support of it!

      (I can’t speak for the video game though, no idea on that one)

    • orion

      or netepic, spin off of the space marine/epic V2 rules (before epic 40k by GW)

      but people just like to complain (and burn their models) instead of trying to adapt and see if the change of rules is positive or not …

      • Porky_Poster

        They’ve done a lot of work for sure, with the different versions available as well. For the latest edition there’s also community support through NetE:A and EpicUK.

        • Michael Gerardi

          I was unaware of Net:EA and other Epic community sets. Thanks for the info!

    • AircoolUK

      That’s asking way too much, especially as they’ve all burnt their armies in impotent rage.

    • Aaron

      because of how agro gw is about IP

    • A Legalist

      Great idea unless GW sues or fight about their IP.

  • AircoolUK

    The rules are still here. GW haven’t come round to your house and re-possessed your mini’s. Play the game you like.

    Or you could just set your mini’s on fire…

    Think of the positives… no longer constrained by GW’s hounds, you can go to town and alter the game to your tastes.

    • A Legalist

      But nothing is official if you stick to the old rules and its not supported. Worst the model line will change. Granted there is allot of 3rd party manufactures, but the quality of most of these leaves something to desire. I personally go with Raging Heroes, but they got issues too. Mostly they got no distributor in USA and they lacking communications with customers. Still there models are very pretty.

      Its not we no longer constrained by GW hounds. Its GW took a gun and shot WHFB in the head and left it corpse out on the street.

  • BrianDavion

    “How many of you have been playing Warhammer for around 20 years? Seems like a lot of us.” and from GW’s POV (and it’s a valid one) this is the problem. when a games population starts Greying, even if otherwise healthy, it’s a warning sign. people leave games after a time. life chanegs etc. and old veterns often don’t buy as much as new comers so, GW felt they needed to do something to bring in new blood. they belvied there where two roadblocks to entry. the first being the settings backstory had been around for so long it was intimidating new comers (for the record I think this is BS myself, but we saw WOTC think that with Forgotten realms 4th. Wizkids have that mentality with MWDA, and white wolf with their new WoD setting. incidently the inital reaction in all 3 of these cases was negitive. and of the 2 I followed personally. Battletech and FR, I now long longer play eaither) the second being that the rules where too complex. AoS is designed as a simplified reboot to address these perceived issues. we’ll have to see if AoS manages to revive the franchise, but I don’t have a whole lot of hope.

    • Porky_Poster

      The loyalty and experience of the older players, sometimes returning after many years away, seem like they would be a fantastic asset for a company to have, and something that could be carefully cultivated for the benefit of all parties.

      • A Legalist

        Expect companies never do that. They are too busy looking at the bottom line.

      • BrianDavion

        it’s a careful mix they need to have. they can’t have it so arcane that the new blood is turned off. but you very much need your veterns feeling enthusiastic about the game. because they tend to end up being your defacto ambassadors

    • Aaron

      people are certainly getting stupider

      • Autumnlotus

        the company is run by Business Men, set in their ways from the 70s-80s and have a large group of shareholders with a herd mentality for money. If they could they would murder homeless people to increase sales. Its why I am in tears whener I hear a company i like is going public, they essentially signed their death warrant for the long term unless they fight hard to survive

        • A Legalist

          Yep cause now they beholden to a bunch of old men and women who give a rats-### about games.

      • A Legalist

        That is so true +1

        • Bobsyouruncle

          The last CEO of GW was a disaster , he stripped out all of WHFB support games that fed kids into the main hobby and got rid of front line staff who coach kids while also ramping up prices beyond industry standard. Why? To create short term bumps in profit and share price to look good on his CV for when he moved onto his next job . I bet the guy never rolled a dice or painted a mini in his entire life .

          • A Legalist

            Yep that happens in modern world. Corporate A- holes who know nothing about the industry but get to run a business cause they either know someone or sleaze their way to the top. Man I hate F-ing Capitalism.

    • A Legalist

      Ok let me see here.
      1. Ok 4th Edition D&D was a success even though it chased a lot of old vets away for long time and gave birth to pathfinder (cause honestly its garbage system)
      2. Mechwarrior Dark Age was dismal failure. They manage to almost kill Battletech. Most fanbase was in revolt and that game fail to get new people because young people are fickle as crap. Thank god that Classic Battletech rose from the ashes of that debacle.
      3. The new World of Darkness setting split the community. Now you got people who play classic and new. IT hurt Whitewolf that they got bought out and sold the rights to Oxyn path.

      In all AOS is probably going to split the fan base into two. With some supporting AOS and some continuing with old warhammer or moving on to other real wargames.

      • BrianDavion

        and it’ll proably hurt GW as a result. particularly as it sounds like Kings of War is in a position to basicly “Pathfinger” WFB

        • A Legalist

          That is true. I like some of what KOW is doing. IF they add more troops choices and armies i would love them.

  • Wilma Lang

    KoW stands ready to console you.

    • Aaron

      kow is a poor cousin to whfb 3rd-7th ed, but its better than AOS

      • A Legalist

        Sad but true.

  • Luca Battisti

    NO RULEBOOK WILL EVER COME OUT!
    Seriously guys, stop wishlisting. Just… Stop!

    • AircoolUK

      But there are books with rules in them 😉

      • Luca Battisti

        Yes, but those are rules regarding scenarios.
        Effectively there are rumors of a “tournament system” planned (and we know what great support did GW give to tournaments so far…).
        The best we have are unconfirmed rumors (and God… we did have a lot of stupid rumors about AoS so far) that a “tournament system” is planned, not ready, and definetly it’s stupid being sure that a point system will come out.

        The rulebook is probably already out. And it’s 4 pages long. It works just fine too (well, as fine as any ruleset written by GW in the last 7 years at least).

        • AircoolUK

          I love it. Breath of fresh air. It’s a very modern system and built from the ground up to support lateral expansions.

  • Havik110

    I love it when people say that this is a kids game…

    FOR THE LAST TIME, WARHAMMER IS NOT A KIDS GAME…

    if you cant play it for 60 bucks or under like vidoe games for kids, then it is not for children.

    Warhammer, being relatively EXPENSIVE is a game for adults with expendable income. Children do not have expendable income. When I was a kid my parents would buy me 1 nintendo game on my birthday and other relatively expensive presents on christmas. we were by no means poor but my parents werent buying me anything over a few bucks other than clothes for hobby purchases.

    What kid has 50 bucks lying around that he can spend every month to buy little plastic men, plus razor blades, plus glue, plus paint, plus paint brushes?

    SO stop saying the younglings are going to play. They are never going to play because they cannot afford it.

    I hope this AOS fails miserably…

    Finally, when did all of the blogs become so pro AOS. When harry 1st started talking about it, it was hated. now its release and people are back to sucking up to GW. are you people getting paid now, or did they threaten you with a C&D if you didnt write nice stuff about AOS.

    • AircoolUK

      Nah. People have now played it and realised that it’s good fun. The core game is solid, quick and simple. The complexity comes from all the additions, mostly warscrolls, battalions and scenario rules.

      There’s enough leaked photo’s on the net to see that the ‘big book’ getting released is a series of linked scenario’s involving Chaos (Nurgle) and Sylvaneth. Possibly also Tzeentch and Duardin.

      Oh, and parents do buy their youngsters stuff, especially if they play themselves. The only adults you actually see in a GW store are parents and men who’ve never had a date with soap.

      • Porky_Poster

        “The only adults you actually see in a GW store are parents and men who’ve never had a date with soap.”

        You’re above that kind of generalisation I think.

        • AircoolUK

          Yeah. Good point. I’ve seen a few fezzin’ women as well 😉

        • cypher623

          So, apparently he isn’t

          • AircoolUK

            Only in jest of course ¬_¬

          • Autumnlotus

            Mocking the primary blog-goers on this site tends to not come off as “jesting” I have been to dozens of hobby stores in my state, and only one had kids anywhere near the model/wargaming section: GW in Seattle. and as stereotypical as it was, it was in a strip mall and covered in kids. Never bought a dang thing, and were dropped off there while their parents bought from other stores. So yes, GW is aiming at the wrong market. I would gor for the 16-24 crowd myself since a sense of independence and a (typically) fresh new job has them with money burning a hole in their pockets

    • crusader284

      If you buy everything in one go then yeah, it’s pretty damn expensive. However, if you buy your army bit by bit like I do, then it’s actually pretty cheap compared to the money you’d spend on video games.

      As for your final comments… Please, do yourself a favour and know when to be quiet. Just because YOU don’t like the game, doesn’t mean that other people are going to share your opinion. Getting your knickers in a twist and saying “I hope AoS fails” is really immature, to say the least.

      But eh, you won’t listen, since you’re probably one of those people who think that hating GW no matter what they do is super cool and trendy.

      • AircoolUK

        That was the problem that WHFB built for itself. You could build the armies bit by bit once you’d bought a significant chunk of one army to get you playing.

        WHFB was crap at low point values, and some armies need a lot of models even for low point games.

        As you started out in your new hobby, it would become very clear, very soon that the starter set and a regiment box would still leave you short of a decent ‘small’ game.

        There were ‘high point-low model count’ armies that you could buy into (Ogres for example), but even then you’d need to spend at least £200 to get something on the table for a decent game. On top of that, there’s the amount of modelling and painting to do.

        WHFB had turned into a game where, quite simply, there were too many barriers to getting started.

        40K is little better these days and it doesn’t take long for the magic to fade when you realise all those cool models are just ablative wounds for characters.

      • “compared to the money you’d spend on video games”

        I present to you: Humble Bundle, Greenman Gaming, and last but not least Steam Sales.
        The money necessary for a single box of infantry could easily get you 5 to 30 video games on PC without issues, depending on what you enjoy or want to risk. You can get a full bundle of games, sometimes from EA, Square Enix, 2K Games and whatnot, for $5. That’s pretty much what GW is trying to price their paint pots at, isn’t it?
        Nevermind all the free to play titles popular with kids.

        Even on consoles, you get free games every month via Playstation Plus or Xbox Live Gold, which most teens with consoles probably get paid for by their parents anyway. Plus used games and sales.

        What I’m saying is, comparisons with video games are silly. Gaming is cheap as hell these days, after the initial hardware cost. But then, parents seem fine to buy a console or laptop for their kids anyway.

      • A Legalist

        He has the right to say that. Just because you fan boys don’t want us negatively commenting about this game so GW get butt hurt. Its a flawed system and people deserve to know it is.

        • crusader284

          “Fan boy”. Lol. I’ve done my share of criticism of GW, but it gets to the point where people just hate for the sake of hating. I played AoS twice now, had fun in both games. In the end, that’s all that should matter. If it was the opposite, I wouldn’t be here, I’d be occupying myself with other games and hobbies.

    • Stan

      Obviously some favors are being spread around to generate all this GW agitprop.

    • A Legalist

      Also they have no attention span. That why the rules are essentially “Bring a bunch of models and slam them into each other. Do some silly childish rules for bonuses and just roll good and win.” The kid will play for like two game and then be on the next flavor of the month.

  • cypher623

    If you haven’t devoted your spare time to this game for 20+ years and grown to enjoy the fluff and the models, then you can’t really understand how much of a betrayal this new system is to the core fanbase. It feels like GW killed my favorite pet and not only wants me to get over it, but also wants me to play with the corpse.

    • Wilma Lang

      Mantic wants to be your friend.

    • Thomas Dawes

      I can understand the pain, i started collecting warhammer fantasy in 2011 and painted 2/3rds of the skaven in the island of blood, just no one to play with.

      Now im back to it with warhammer 40K battles, happening now i’m at uni in Bournemouth.

      But i just cant help but be smitten with the new models they just hit the nerve with me hard lol. Even if i don’t play age of Sigmar due to no one playing, I would like to have an army i could just pass to 40K and say yeah these are this a 40k army of golden sons of sigmar :D.

      • Wilma Lang

        Just call them Sigmarines and you’ll be good to go in 40k.

      • A Legalist

        The New models are just stupid Space Marines without bolters. I have no desire to purchase more of that Ubermensch garbage. F Space-Cheese

    • standardleft

      Dr G.W. put down your dog.

      I’m sorry he was sick. All dogs have to die one day. You knew this all those years ago when you got him for Christmas.

      At least you got to look in its eyes one last time before the end.

      I know your new puppy isn’t the same. Maybe he’s a bit silly and goofy, but your son loves him. And maybe with time. He will grow and you will love him too.

      • A Legalist

        Wow you went their. For shame.

    • A Legalist

      Cause GW has no honor and bunch of corporate shills. F them and new abomination.

  • Robomummy

    hey guess what? you know all those rules and models you paid for? well lets say for a moment there was a way to use those models and rules. Ladies and gentlemen I present to you the novel solution, play 8th edition! Now I know what you are thinking, “oh go back to using old rules, how could i possibly do that?” well my friends I am here to tell you; it is as easy as taking those old models and rulebooks off your shelf and putting them on a table.

    • Porky_Poster

      Groups all over the world could even collaborate on a minimum universal framework of fixes that would standardise the game in an improved but flexible global version.

      • Robomummy

        even without that you could just use the rules that are already there, People say that fantasy is dead and just give up on it. it is very much alive as long as you want it to be it just is no longer being supported.

  • Scott Adams

    I suggest that people.. many of whom are going mental about the idea of no points… try a game with a friend. Set limitations. For example (and by all means tweak it to liking):

    40 wounds max
    1-3 Heroes
    0-2 wizards respecting hero max
    0-2 monsters
    0-2 warmachines
    Ignore sudden death and fight!

    You might be surprised at how fun and balanced (this is relative) it can be. Yes, one skeleton does not equal one dwarf hammerer. But that one skeleton usually has friends… and those friends usually have a necromancer buddy that is summoning/buffing away!

    Age of Sigmar is a breath of fresh air… rules are clean with very little to dispute. Old warhammer was cumbersome, clunky feeling, and my models never felt special (fancy wounds counters)!

    I know people are upset and change is hard. But take a step back, bust out your super epic awesome other worldly models ,roll some dice, and have some good laughs/cries as your opponent burns you alive with warpfire!

    • Autumnlotus

      the problem isnt that its unplayable, its that the game feels shallow and boring as well as no sense of balance. There is zero customization, half the heroes are being mocked by GW’s writing, you have to houserule deployment rules in order for a game to not fall apart turn 1-2, and the new models look like a completely different game from WFB

  • Ajeje_Brazorf

    is written KAPUTT, with K and double T
    caput means capital city in latin

  • Don

    Guys this is actually a GREAT thing for the old school Warhammer player. What it means is that you have the game that you love forever, without the constant updates and retcons from GW.
    Eventually, a community will form and decide on a fan-approved rule set and army books and they will likely include every unit that ever graced a Warhammer table, great rules will stay, bad ones will be removed, and you will get a truly great game that will stand the test of time.
    This is what happened with 2 of my favorite games – Epic 2nd edition and Warmaster. If you truly like Warhammer this will be a great thing for you and your game group in the end.

  • Seb

    You know what I don’t like the most in all of this? The fracturing of the gaming community going on. Loyalists verse consumerists, casuals vs competitors, hobbyists verse gamers.

    I’ve never seen such vehement barbs snipe out between hobbyists. This is the real loss at the moment, for all of us. I’ve taken some pokes at new AoS content, but I just won’t downplay anyones opinion over either way on this.

    We’re gamers, and always my army will kick your armies a**.. I just dont care to lose playing that game with you, over a game. Life’s a git as it is, lets not shred our downtime too gang.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHj_WC_IzFc

  • Drew

    I love the Old World, don’t get me wrong, but to compare it to Tolkien is just inaccurate. It had long since grown to be far more “grimdark” than high fantasy- by the seventh, eighth editions there was very little in the way of truly noble, good guys. The High Elves had been tarnished by arrogance and indifference to the rest of the world, the Bretonnians by their horrific treatment of their peasants, the Empire by its feuding Elector Counts, the Dwarfs by their bitterness, grudges, and greed…the list goes on. You just didn’t have anything really like the Eldar, Valar, Dunedain, etc. the way that Middle Earth does.

  • KoW. That’s what we are doing. And by “we” I mean my group in Columbia, SC, and those I used to play with in Spain. I have also seen a lot of support from GTs and the ETC scene in favor of this move.

  • SaltyJohn

    I’m dreading the day this happens to 40K.

  • Ben_There_Twice

    I just hope they don’t do this to Warhammer 40 k..

    • John Felger

      Of course they will. I expect the End Times for the 40K Universe are already in the works and they are planning a game close to this one to follow.

  • PsychosisPC

    I think all of this will go the way of Warhammer Ancient Battles did here in Midwest U.S…..and that is division. WAB was the even smaller brother and 2.0 was a very good game. The problem was it was dropped and there were no more books, there was no more support, and then came the endless amount of rules by others. We all thought we could go on, but the drop, the lack of finding the rule books, the variety of others coming up with rule systems, led to division of already a very small minority of gamers. The games with ancients became more regionalized, or maybe I should say localized, around the rules by others and the tournament scene dried up.