40k List-Tech: Adepticon Champion Aaron Aelong!

Top Secret List

Today on List-Tech we have a very special treat! I got a chance to pick the mind of Adepticon 2016 winner Aaron Aelong and his Deathwolf Star. 

For more great articles check out our Tactics Corner!

The list-tech segment is a series of articles designed to focus on unique, competitive lists crafted by established players in the community in order to provide new and experienced players with tactics, tips, and tricks to use in the heat of battle.

“Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win”

― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

make a list

The Questions

  1. Tell us a little bit about your army, why did you go with certain units? Why did you pick this army list in particular? Is there anything special about your army that you want to highlight?
  2. What expectations did you have for the meta? Were there any armies you were worried about? What match-ups did you feel most comfortable with?
  3. Hindsight is 20-20 and looking back on the Adepticon was there anything you would have changed about your list to better accommodate the meta you experienced?
  4. What are some tips or tricks you have for people who might want to start using your army?
  5. We heard there was an issue with your list, What was it?
  6. How did the Adepticon judges handle the situation?
  7. What was your overall impression of the Adepticon tournament in general?
  8. How did your list change from the LVO list you brought to the top 8, to your Adepticon list?

DeathStar3

CAD – Dark Angels

Chaplain: Bike, Fist, Lightning Claw

Ravenwing Command Squad: 2x Corvex Hammers, 3x Plasma Talons, Champion w/Blade of Caliban, Apothecary, Ravenwing Banner

Scouts: 1x Sniper

Scouts: 1x Sniper

Azrael

Champions of Fenris Detachment

Iron Priest: TW mount, Thunder Hammer, Runic Armor, 4x Wolves

Iron Priest: TW mount, Thunder Hammer, Runic Armor, 4x Wolves

Lone Wolf: Power Armor, Melta Bomb

Lone Wolf

CAD – White Scars

Techmarine: Bike

Bike Squad

Scouts: 5x snipers

Allied Detachment – Blood Angels

Sanguinary Priest: Bike, Fist, Claw

Scouts

Librarius Conclave – White Scars

Librarian: Bike, Lv. 2

Librarian: Bike, Lv. 2

Librarian: Lv. 2

Librarian: Lv. 1

Aaron Aelong’s list and the Adepticon 2016 meta is a testament to the nastiness 7th edition brings to the game. The tournament was covered with ranged D shots, unkillable deathstars, and massive amounts of cheap, deadly obsec units. It was a truly hardcore experience and the fact that Aaron Aelong made it all the way to the top playing at a disadvantage (more on that below) is a testament to both his skill as a player, and his lucky ability to dodge 6’s.

aaron lvo

  1. I have always loved assault ever since I started at the end of 4th edition. When 6th started everyone said assault was dead. I have been building assault style lists since 4th and desired to keep on with it. When I build any list, it has to beat my last list. It also has to stand up to what i believe to be the strongest codex: Chaos Daemons. Playing against what I consider the best three daemon players on the world on a semi regular basis, I needed a list that could hang with the warp. (Nick Nanavati, Justin Curtis, and Alan Bajramovic). The list I built started from a concept from Justin that I developed into the “Thunderdome” I developed it to be able to handle daemons first, then eldar spyder/scat bike spam. The final change came after I played Frankie Giampapa and Julio Rodriguez at Nova in 2015 and realized how I had to change to be able to deal with gladius.
  2.  The top three are still the toughest matchups. Daemons first, eldar 2nd, and gladius third. Obviously a mirror match is always tough. I played 4 eldar armies that were similar. Double WK, scat bikes, and spyders. I’m hoping people will venture out into other armies. There are so many great options. I’ve been making lists with sisters in it and think they can be a part of some great lists.
  3. One sniper rifle off the list. Besides that I feel the list was perfect for the missions and composition. Every model in my Adpeticon list had a role to play.
  4. Alot of people look at the list and have 2 trains of thought.”That’s it?””All you do is run forward and kill stuff” Both of these are inherently incorrect. Thus army is very difficulty to master. Yes it can have invisibility and is great on close combat, but I believe this is harder to play than all of my other GT winning lists.               20160401_205340Aaron playing Matt Root in the finals
  5. When building my list, which I primarily use army builder, I used adepticon’s composition rules to build a list with 5 sources. The blood angel’s codex that came out in 2014 has somehow gome nearly 2 years without anyone realizing there is an error in the code in reference to the Sanguinary priest. The Sang priest doesn’t come with a bolt pistol (I was unaware of this). I felt I needed more Powerfist attacks and so I bought a fist and a lightning claw for the Sang priest. Army builder allows the purchase were normally it wouldnt. When I was complete with the list I was at 1848 points. (or so I thought) I knew I would be short 2 Points due to the 63 mam bike squad. I decided to add a sniper rifle to two dark angels sniper scout squads just because. Unfortunately this made my list actually 1851. If I wouldn’t have added the sniper rifles the list would have been legal. (1849) I take full responsibility for the error. I am not makin excuses. The fact that I never fired them doesn’t matter. The list was 1 point over.
  6. During the 6th round, the judge running the champs made a decision to remove the obsec scout squad before they came on from outflanking the table giving my opponent double kill points for that unit. After the round Chris the head TO pulled me aside. Showed me the written policy and questioned me about the list and what happened. He stated he doesn’t feel it was intentional as this is a very unique situation. He showed me the rule that the illegal model would have to be removed for any further games. I’m round 7 and 8, I played 120 points down versus my last two opponents.
  7. It is always a great event. Very classy and well organized. I know they have taken responsibility for the error, but I am also at fault. And again I apologize for any inconvenience I have caused.
  8. With LVO I could only take 3 sources. The lvo list actually had more shooting.  But the Adpeticon list was more resilient in late game.
got a list
Did you just win an ITC event? Is your list dominating everyone it crosses? Did you just recently do well with a unique list at a large event? I want to hear about it! Just send it to
 
frontlinegamingpeteypab@gmail.com 
Please do not send your army list in a format such as Army Builder, send them in an easy to read, typed format. Thanks!

 

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  • Gabriel De-Vere

    I want to be the first to write something of not much really, like i feel after reading this…

    • Zingbaby

      Can’t believe we’re ‘celebrating’ this list… just threw up in my mouth.

      • benn grimm

        Maybe stop celebrating so hard?

        • Zingbaby

          Lol

  • ZeeLobby

    They should just let any army take any unit. Then we can just take the OP units from each army, and the field will be balanced.

    • jazeroth

      u can. but u have to stay away from each other unless u want the one eye watching rule to come on 🙁

    • Randy Randalman

      That’s pretty much how it is anyway. Although, without synergy, taking best-in-slot won’t get you very far.

      That said, I like formations, but want to see faction-specific restrictions on them. No Ork players fielding 3x Riptides, or Eldar players with a White Scars bike squad.

    • Pyrrhus of Epirus

      agreed, thatway its not just the forces of the imperium who get to pick and choose from what, 15 different books?

  • Drasek

    One suggestion: Put the questions with the answers. I had to scroll up and down to read the question and then the answer and back up again to the next question. Do: Question, Answer, Question, Answer, and so on.

  • Randy Randalman

    He wasn’t lucky to dodge 6’s. D-weapons simply don’t put out enough dice to make the 6’s that common to begin with, and any strategy relying on D is doomed to fail right now. The champ simply cemented that truth by beating up on Eldar D all weekend.

  • MarcoT

    A picture of the army would help, and perhaps how it worked. This is close to being insightful, but misses that last bit.

    • dinodoc

      I’m kinda curious what his typical deployment would look like.

  • WellSpokenMan

    Wow, the cost in Codices alone to run that list is pretty substantial.

    • dinodoc

      Yeah. 4 is a lot.

  • ken

    Wasn’t this the ‘illegal list’ people were ranting about?

    • dinodoc

      1 point over the limit, I believe the complaint was. In a previous article about this, someone claimed he played his final games without the Sanguinary priest which would mean he was playing 119 points light and still won.

      • Julien Huguenin

        Nope. Lone wolves can’t be taken without a troop, making the list illégal.

        • Harthelion

          Even if that is actually a requirement, scouts are troops :^)

          • BT

            The Scouts would need to be Space Wolf Scouts then. You can’t use scouts from different CADs to fulfill your troop requirement, it would have to be self-contained.

            But apparently that is not the issue.

          • Harthelion

            “You can take one Lone Wolf for each Troops choice or unit of Wolf Guard or Wolf Guard Terminators in your army. This selection does not use up a Force Organisation slot.” I don’t see any problem :^)

          • BT

            If you take that SW detachment and set it to the side as a stand alone, is it legal?

            The key is abusing the meaning for army. The term, written in that book, is obviously intended for a Space Wolf army. The judge had to make a call and I feel it is a generous call. To me, that is the worse offense that a player could make, word loopholes to justify effectively cheating. You do not make that assumption without the intent of bullying your way through on it.

            Tainted victory, tainted player.

          • benn grimm

            Hate the game, not the playa. Or is it hate the playa, but don’t hate the game? I can never remember. Probably best to just hate both at this point. Or neither… 😉

          • Harthelion

            ” is obviously intended for a Space Wolf army” not really, rules are not metaphors, nor bible type, rules are as written, space marine’s rules are not that ambiguous for an error like that to occur.

          • BT

            But you are not arguing that the SW detachment, on it’s own, is illegal? I mean, under the Detachment rule, page 122 of the BRB, it says ‘All units must be chosen from the same Fraction.’

            So if to make his list legal, he needed troop choices from a different fraction, he is breaking the fraction rule, weather or not it says army or not.

          • Harthelion

            Ooooh you mean the Combined arms detachment? yeah of course in that one you need the troops of your faction in that detachment, but he is using the Champion of Fenris detachment of the Space Wolves, that one doesn’t need troops at all

          • dinodoc

            If someone’s going to harp on an issue with the list, the fact it was over the limit seems like the bigger issue.

          • BT

            I have to take your word on it, I don’t own the SW book.

          • PinkyandtheBrain

            He doesn’t need troops choices to field Lone Wolves. No rule says he must. He has 2 ways of fielding LWs the normal way for an Elite Slot. Or he can have one that doesn’t take up an Elite Slot for each troop choice or Wolf guard squad.

          • Charon

            Army is a very different term from deatchment.
            There is a big difference if your detachment may not include X or your army may not include X. If a buff grants Y to every model in the army or every model in the detachment. The prequisit ist “troops” in your army, not detachment.
            Besides the point is moot anyways as the ruling was about another wording and was asked and ruled days before the tournament.

          • uatu13

            That’s because your reading comprehension is garbage, or you’re more than happy to take advantage of type-o’s by GW’s wonderful editorial staff. They’re not troop choices, you can just take one for every troop choice you take (ie 1 lone wolf for every 1 grey hunters). The fact that we have to argue about stuff like this is a great example of why tournaments are a joke.

        • Charon

          This was asked beforehand and allowed by the TO, making it legal.
          Pretty much like any other houserule. (like limiting to 2 sources, banning of unbound and FW, changing ranged D,…)

          • PinkyandtheBrain

            It wasn’t a house rule. They were following the normal rules.

          • BT

            Quick question… when is a Techmarine considered a HQ for a CAD? Shouldn’t that be a Master of the Forge?

          • Charon

            Always? They are under the HQ entry for space marine armies.
            Thunderfire cannons are no HQ tech mariens. MAybe you confuse them with engineseers who are elite?

          • BT

            Nope, my mistake. Last codex Techmarines were HQ slots but could not be taken as sole HQs. You could have a equal number of them to actual HQs in your list. AM codex does the same with Techpriests, Orks do it with Mekboys, ect….

          • PinkyandtheBrain

            Master of the Forge doesn’t exist.

        • dinodoc

          He cleared that with the TO.

        • PinkyandtheBrain

          The rules disagree.

          • Charon

            The rules also disagree about a lot of things you and your group to decide to rule (like a social contract) or what TO see fit in their games (restrictions, other table for ranged D)
            That does not make different rulings “illegal”

          • PinkyandtheBrain

            Agreed. However the rules absolutely allow the taking of Lone Wolves on their own.

  • NagaBaboon

    Why on Earth are the questions in a sperate list to the answers? I have to keep scrolling back and forth to know what the hell he’s talking about.

  • Farseerer

    Seeing this list has made me sad. I know the whole point of tournaments is WAAC but a 5 source list like this sums up why 40k is very much in decline. A fundamental shake up of all the rules is what is really needed.

    • ZeeLobby

      Could not agree more.

    • PinkyandtheBrain

      I don’t think tournaments are for WAAC play at all. They are for competitive play. It is not the 5 sources that I dislike I going it is great that we can include whatever models we want in our armies and this approach from GW should be encouraged and applauded. I don’t see 40k in decline at all but it has issues. Better internal balance in codexes would help greatly and getting rid of the way allies can join each others units and get in each others transports is what is called for and getting rid of invisibility.

      • Farseerer

        To me WAAC is the same as Competitive play as most people go to a tournament to win first and to have fun second. Better internal balance goes without saying. Internal Codex balancing is as important as faction balancing but to me, the only way that can happen is if a new set of internally balanced Codexes covering all the factions and FW units are released simultaneously with the next edition of the game. The current power creep is totally unsustainable in the medium to long term. As it stands Eldar, Marines, Necrons, Demons and Tau may as well be in a different game system to the other factions. Considering how easily countered Tau are they could arguably be put in tier 2 with the War Convocations, and Imperial Knights

        • Charon

          Like in… every other competitive event from Darts to Soccer?

          • Farseerer

            I feel like darts players go to tournaments to drink beer first and win second

          • Charon

            You have not seen a lot of dedicated darts players then…
            You probably think about pub games, which is by no means an organized event.
            Hell we see even Dart players discussing shafts the same as we discuss units.

          • Farseerer

            I wasn’t being totally serious. I doubt Van Barnefeld is anything but stone cold sober when he competes.

          • Severius_Tolluck

            Very true, and they choose their fletches and tips, and weighted shafts very carefully, and the right kinda cases, etc!

          • benn grimm

            But really all they care about is the shaft…;)

        • PinkyandtheBrain

          WAAC is not trying to win over having fun, it is Win At All Costs. So cheating bad sportsmanship and putting winning above human decency. None of that has a place in Tournament play.

          Competitive play is about playing the game to win within the rules. That is all. Competitive players don’t just want an easy win as that is meaningless. They want to play against someone else also trying to win and test their skills. Victory only means something if it was earnt.

          I’d argue Tau are the highest tier due to how the tournament scene (particularly in America) has effectively banned Hunter Contingent.

          • Farseerer

            ah OK, I see. I meant WAAC list building (4 faction, 5 source list building makes me cringe ). I should have been more specific, my bad.

          • Charon

            Standard unrestricted GW play is completely unrestricted and with the inclusion of unbound even more.
            Dont see the issue of a restriction to 5 sources if the base game is unrestricted.

          • PinkyandtheBrain

            So what rules was he breaking or even bending by using 4 factions and 5 sources? Still not WAAC. Yes he went over on points accidentally by 1 point (that never made a difference in his favour). That wasn’t WAAC that was making a mistake due to using Army Builder instead of a codex.

        • benn grimm

          Most people I know go for fun first, winning second. Its actually quite rare to find someone who puts winning over fun, in my experience anyway.

          • Farseerer

            Outside of competitions with serious prizes I totally agree. I just think its a shame that such a nasty list is possible outside of unbound

          • benn grimm

            Completely agreed on the list, for me, it just shouldn’t be in the game, full stop, like most formations as well tbh. Certainly not in a ‘competitive’ environment.

          • Farseerer

            I think its a shame people (including me) feel that way about formations. In theory, they can make nonviable units viable but in reality they’re just being used to sell models by giving them a giant buff. They had so much potential…

          • benn grimm

            They should just buff units that aren’t good, so they are; less points, a new rule or two, better save, new gun… Like they did with Guardians. And Warp Spiders. And Dark Reapers. And Swooping Hawks and Wraithguard and LITERALLY EVERYTHING IN THE STUPID CODEX (cept ‘King Fire for Blood’ for some reason)…

          • Farseerer

            If every faction had a codex as internally balanced as Eldar, All GW would have to do is compare like with like points wise to have external balance as well

          • benn grimm

            If every book was as strong as Eldar I’d be much happier as I’d feel comfortable playing my Eldar again. Games would be a lot shorter too…;)

          • dinodoc

            I’d be happier if Apocalypse had never invaded 40k.

          • benn grimm

            Yup that would be nice too. Tbh I don’t think we really need to limit ourselves to just one gripe; ‘specially when there are so many to be had…;)

          • dinodoc

            Reject the heresy of “Or” vs the true path of “and”

          • Farseerer

            It wouldn’t be the perfect solution but it sure would be nice to be able to play against Orks, CSM, AM, Nids, Sisters and Dark Eldar without nerfing my own list hard to make the game close ( I also play Eldar )

          • benn grimm

            Yeah, I guessed from the tag. A dying race should never have to self nerf…just doesn’t feel right somehow…

          • Farseerer

            Started playing Corsairs a bit to change things up. The kitbashing is a lot of fun and they are far less forgiving than their aloof cousins. I would definitely recommend giving it a go.

          • benn grimm

            I’m having a lot of fun with my Daemons atm, but cheers for the tip, may have to check them out sometime.)

          • Farseerer

            There is an option to have a Corsair army with a bunch of Daemon summoning Wild Psykers that could be fun 🙂

          • benn grimm

            Sounds like it probably doesn’t end well for the space pirates… 😉

      • sandwyrm

        Real competitive play requires clear, balanced rules.

        Flames of War (to name just one game) has this, and the top players are the best sportsmen I know.

        WAAC thrives in chaos and needless complexity. The same factors that drive away honest, competitive players. Hence, WAAC is all that’s left in “competitive” 40K anymore.

    • BT

      Limiting a army to two Codices would solve a lot of tourney problems. Your average player will not field this.

    • Erik Setzer

      The biggest problem is that all Imperials are Battle Brothers. You can cherry-pick stuff from several sources and have it all work seamlessly together, with models joining units from other armies, or buffing them with powers or special rules. Other factions don’t come close to having that much variety that works together.

      • Farseerer

        This could be easily corrected in the next edition. Disallowing Characters from joining units of other factions removes a lot of potential shenanigans as the rule writers don’t need to worry about clever/annoying relic combinations. This would allow them to focus more on internally balancing the codexes they write. It wouldn’t even be ‘unfluffy’

        • PinkyandtheBrain

          Completely agree also stopping them from using each other transports. I mean why on earth in the background would Azrael leading a Dark Angels detachment alongside some guard ever lead a guard squad instead of a Dark Angel one. It shouldn’t be a core part of the rules rather something you could or would do for a specific mission or scenario. Likewise Formation rules shouldn’t apply in Unbound.

    • Pyrrhus of Epirus

      the battle brother shenanigans the imperium of man can throw out there are getting ridiculous. Maybe its time to advance the plot and have the imperium split in half (again) between two opposing factions of “good” marines, ones you cant pick and choose the HQs from 4-5 different books to combine special rules for.

    • benn grimm

      I don’t think the point of tourneys is WAAC. Not at all really. Its about lots of other things; painting, socialising, having fun etc etc. I think what you’ve done there is assume that everybody going to a tourney does so for the reasons only really a minority do. Totally agree on the list and the rules though.

    • Niraco

      Actually the list is very nice. It does not spam more than enough, it is assault in a sea of shooting, it has all kind of units and not only 4 types like eldar lists. Why you complain? Just to complain? You play a list without ignore cover? Or auspex? Or luminagen? Or you dont have enough mobility? Or you dont have what you need to tie his deathstar for 2 turns at least? Then you make bad lists.

  • Farseerer

    I don’t even want to think how boring it would be to watch this list take on the Warp Spider list that won the LVO. And that’s coming from someone who’s two armies are Eldar and Space Marines. The other extreme to this is limiting army builds to a single CAD with no allies. The solution has to lie somewhere in the middle. Just spit balling here but what if a single CAD was less restrictive eg: 4 HQs 5 Elites, 10 Troops 7 Fast attacks and 6 Heavy Supports etc. and you got bonuses like in formations for taking units in certain combinations that was consistent with the fluff? Probably a silly idea but I don’t want to complain without offering some sort of solution.

  • BT

    I feel the simple answer to this is limit a tourney list to two codices.

    And for a tourney list, specially Adepticon, there is no excuse for being over points, even 1 point. Running a freaking min-max list as it is, didn’t even need the Blood Angels. And he proved it in his last match.

    And stop with the BS about ‘assault lists’ buddy, you made a bike deathstar superfriend list with camping scouts. That isn’t a assault list.

    • captkaruthors

      Agreed. This list is simply: How many individual characters and models can I put together to gain every special rule I can. It is not an army. How does one look at themselves in the mirror rolling stuff like this onto a tabletop and claim it’s “an army”. Meh. Good thing I don’t do tournaments anymore. You always had people looking to “break the game” as they say…but stuff like this is taking it to new and ridiculous heights. Now that marines can move terrain around, 40K has completely jumped the shark. It’s comical.

  • benn grimm

    Horrible list, seems like a nice enough guy. Daemons are badass for sure, but no way stronger than ‘Dar, Ad mech, Marines and Crons (imo). They can hang with the big boys, but that’s more because they are so different and can generally circumvent alot of the big killers (grav for example).

    It would help massively as far as enjoyment of article goes, if you put each question above each answer. Sorry to state the obvious (and repeat comment), but its not a pub quiz and on a mobile its pretty annoying.

  • I don’t mean to cast aspersions (making it to the final round of a tournament still requires skill and knowledge) but I would have more respect for a competitive one-faction list if such a thing exists. At least make Dark Angels and Space Wolves subject to ‘Come the Apocalypse’ to make it interesting. Consider this a neckbeard lament for the “good old days” (if such a thing ever existed). Also, apparently there are like, a ton of Sanguinary Priests just running around the galaxy doing solo freelance work these days.

  • durendin

    If winning is so important that you have to cherry pick what you think are the best units from four different armies then the tournament scene deserves to die.

    In a moment of potential schadenfraude rebelling against WAAC I almost hope they do to 40K rules what they did to Warhammer Fantasy….

    • captkaruthors

      Agreed. Blow it up. It would warm the cockles of my cold, black heart to watch the tournament clique twitch and convulse as they try to attempt to “correct” the game so they can play in their tournaments of ridiculous lists. LOL. I mean within weeks a group of people were already trying to assign points to AoS. It was (and still is) comically funny. This list is not an army. It is a pile of models put together for one purpose and one purpose only. Win the tournament at all costs. Fluff be damned, the personal enjoyment of my opponents be damned, and any sense of self control be damned. Nobody could say with a straight face that playing against something like this would be “fun”. Sure you are in a tournament…but then you are playing these games because you entered it and this is what you get. Nobody would willingly play this list if they had the choice.

    • dinodoc

      Why are Tournament players blamed for following the rules of the game and GW is allowed to escape blame for creating the rules that offend you so?

      • captkaruthors

        Just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should.

      • happy_inquisitor

        Maybe if they did follow the rules of the game they could avoid the WAAC accusations. This list did not.

        There is no reading of the Lone Wolf rules that ends up with you believing that they fulfill the requirements for the formation. So its an unbound list in a tournament that did not allow unbound and it claimed formation/detachment benefits it was not entitled to.

        But “he cleared it with the TO” I hear people cry. Yes, he suckered the TO into making a mistaken call which he could take advantage of and then the TO did not feel he could back down and correct the mistake. This is the very essence of unsporting behavior. It is not technically cheating because it was ruled legal but it is totally taking unfair advantage of both the TO and every opponent he played. You know those soccer players who used to make a disgrace of themselves diving onto the ground to unfairly win free kicks and penalties? Unsporting WAAC behavior that tarnished the whole sport. This is essentially the same and may quite reasonably be treated with the same contempt by onlookers. Soccer wised up and made rules for referees to send off players who try to con them for unsporting behavior. The 40K tournament scene needs to wake up and smell the coffee and do something similar.

        Then it was 1 point over because he failed to pay a 1pt tax on one of his models. Dude, pay your taxes!

        • PinkyandtheBrain

          You know the TO got the call right? Nothing in the Lone Wolves rules prevents you from taking them as a normal Elite slot.

          • happy_inquisitor

            Using troops from another codex to unlock them is a stretch but the TO is not actually wrong to allow it. The issue is that they do not count towards your Elite slots in a formation that absolutely requires two Elite slots to be filled to be valid.

          • PinkyandtheBrain

            You don’t need to use troops to unlock them. The COF detachment he was using had no required troops choices. Indeed doing that to unlock then as you point out does make the list illegal as LWs taken that way don’t take up Elite slots. He didn’t do that he just took them as normal Elite slots.

          • Joseph Boyd

            Yes it does!

          • PinkyandtheBrain

            Can you take Wolf Guard as elites? If so how do I know that looking at their datasheet?

            Given the answers to above how do the Lone Wolves differ? What part their extra rule states it replaces the normal way of selecting Lone Wolves or that it is the ONLY legal way to take Lone Wolves?

            Come on guys this is not even ambiguous.

      • durendin

        The problem is the spirit of the game goes right out of the window with tournament players. Every rule is bent and stretched for any minor advantage to win. Background material doesn’t come into it – it’s an inconvenience to the WAAC gamer.

        I hope GW see the financial arguement and rolls out a non-negotiable rule that says that whomever brings the most Warlord Titans auto wins the tournament. Extra points for mixing traitor and loyalist titans in the same army. That way everyone who wants to participate in this sort of farce gets what they want.

  • Keith GatlingGun Gatchalian

    While I can admire skill, I can’t like this list. Part of the game should be comp/fluff. This list has none of that. It’s like playing chess and you get to pick the white pieces and black pieces, whichever you choose.

    • captkaruthors

      I don’t think anyone can honestly say they like this list…nor if given the choice…want to play against it.

      • PinkyandtheBrain

        I would love to play against this list, particularly if played by the player in question. I’m a competitive player I want to try my skills against the best.

        • Joseph Boyd

          its an illegal list! He should of never been able to take the lone wolves.

          • dinodoc

            The Lone Wolves aren’t what made the list illegal. The points issue did.

          • PinkyandtheBrain

            The Lone Wolves are completely legal. Have you even read the codex?

  • Keith Wilson

    all of his prior victories before the discovery should have been vacated …

  • UnLachy

    Is there a reason you don’t place the questions near the answers? I find it incredibly annoying.

  • Joseph Boyd

    Well the list is illegal! Under the space wolves codex, you can’t take any lone wolves without a troop or wolf guard choice.

    • dinodoc

      “You can take a Lone Wolf for each Troops choice or unit of Wolf Guard or Wolf Guard Terminators in your army. This selection does not use up a Force Organisation slot”

      Notice it says army and not formation or detachment.

      • Shiwan8

        RAI is obviously against the list.

        • Niraco

          Rai is not RAW 😉

          • Shiwan8

            True. The game has just too many things like this to abuse.

        • PinkyandtheBrain

          Why? What did he do against RaI? Note that the rule “You can take a Lone Wolf for each Troops choice or unit of Wolf Guard or Wolf Guard Terminators in your army. This selection does not use up a Force Organisation slot” was irrelevant to his list. He was not using that rule to get spotless Lone Wolves he was just taking Lone Wolves as normal Elite slots slots.

  • Larry Gervella

    Every time a list comes out you all act like a bunch of crybabies. How about stop being neckbeards about every little thing you don’t like. This is why no one listens to you all.

  • Grzesiek Hellich

    Why does no one mentions the fact, that Aaron’s list was broken from the start, since he could not take Lone Wolves as his obligatory Elite Slots becouse of their codex entry. I am a DA/SW player myslef and I know the problem with expensive taxes to deathstars, and what Aaron did was either a mistake, that should have been corrected by the judges or a more or less conscious abuse of the rules, that should have never happen…
    The expelnation given by Aaron in this interview completly ignore that issue, and as a reader I have a feeling, that he doesn’t want to talk about this issue.
    As a player who aims for a fair sport, I feel twice disapointed…

    • KvaN

      In my opinion such “mistakes” should be strongly penalized. The penalty should be at least enough to avoid such list to land within TOP 10 or even TOP20. On bigger tournaments in Poland such case would be usually penalized with throwing out the whole detachment and high penalty points.

      • PinkyandtheBrain

        So when people follow the clear rules and double check those rules with the TOs before hand they get penalised in Poland? Why?

        • KvaN

          If they follow the rules and check with the TO organizer then its not an issue. Usually they send list before the tournament and they get published to be reviewed by the participants. Although, sending the list beforehand is not mandatory usually. It gives You some extra points for the main rank. There were occasions in the past that someone appeared with such list, that was not published and send before, but those are very rarely. Usually everyone sends those lists to get the bonus points which are equal to half of the maximum You can get from one battle.

          • PinkyandtheBrain

            Well this guy followed the rules in regard to the issue above AND checked with the TO before the event who confirmed the normal rules applied in that case.

          • KvaN

            OK, then its a TO fault then. But still his list had to many points, so still he should be penalized.

          • PinkyandtheBrain

            Sorry but why was the TO at fault? He was asked a rules question and responded with the correct answer. If a TO was asked if Grav was Ap2 would he have been at fault for saying yes? Whilst the article goes into detail about the 1st mistake came about and how the player was penalised for it.

          • KvaN

            I understood they have accepted the list, if they don’t Iost here a little. In my opinion the whole situation is wrong, starting from the list, his excuses and how it was handled. Such list should not be able to win such tournament. The worst think is this gives a wrong expression of the community and a very wrong example to the fresh and ambitious tournament players.

    • PinkyandtheBrain

      The Lone Wolves absolutely can be taken as his mandatory Elite slots. Seriously read the rules if you’re going to comment on them. Aaron didn’t comment on that as it didn’t need to be commented on.

  • nurglitch

    As much fun as the Constructed variation in Warhammer 40k competitive play is, I think the way to go in promoting competitive Warhammer 40k is to go with fixed lists, with the TO providing the lists of models that the players bring, as well as the missions, dice, etc.

    • PinkyandtheBrain

      So how does that test list building at all? Which is one of the most important and enjoyable skills for competitive players?

      • nurglitch

        I don’t think list-building is the most important or enjoyable skill for competitive players. I think playing the actual game is more enjoyable and important. So the point is that TO-defined lists leave it entirely out of the equation so people can get on with playing actual Warhammer.

        • PinkyandtheBrain

          I didn’t say most important I said one of the most important. List building is a vital part of the game removing it removes a lot of the fun. It also forces you to build and paint models you may have no interest in, which destroys yet another key part of the game. So not only are we destroying a key gaming aspect of the game but also the heart of the hobby. For what? Why would anyone want to go to such an event.

          • nurglitch

            I’m not sure how it forces you to build and paint models you may have no interest in. Tournaments are, after all, voluntary. I’d expect TOs writing lists would pick common models that wouldn’t otherwise see the light of day in a Constructed format. After all, it’s not like the Constructed formats force players to build and paint models they may have no interest in.

          • PinkyandtheBrain

            Saw he picks marines then only people interested in painting the marine models he’s picked can enter. Which cuts the field to a point even those players probably don’t want to play. Plus the games will be VERY similar (as 95-99% of on table decisions are decided by army and match up). I just can’t see a reason anyone would want to attend such an event?

          • nurglitch

            Maybe you don’t. I would like to compete in such a tournament.

          • PinkyandtheBrain

            What for?

          • nurglitch

            Because I think it would be a fantastic way of putting my warhammer skills to the test.

          • PinkyandtheBrain

            What warhammer skills? Not list building. Not really playing more a test of style vs the list creator rather than ability. Though against anyone with a decent skill level it would just come down to luck of the dice. It would also be dull and the months you’d spend having to build and paint models someone else chose would be hell. But hey why don’t you try to set up such an event and see if there are any lime minded hobbyists in your area so you could try it out.

          • nurglitch

            Way ahead of you.

  • Admiral Raptor

    So people were upset that he was one point over? That’s pretty sad, especially when you consider how arbitrarily points are assigned in this game.

  • Lance

    Aaron Aelong took an abusive 5 source gimmick list, and couldn’t even do it with the right points?

    So he pushed the rules, then cheated, and BOLs put up a picture of him with his prizes, and an article celebrating it?

    I hope Aaron Aelong never gets a game again. I’ll never play him or permit him at my events.

    That’s awful, take this article down.