40K RUMORS: Of Major Daemons, Blood Bowl & Dreadfleet

Bols-Rumors-avatar

One of the best rumormongers out there chimes in with even more on the plastic Major Daemons, and some rumor history to set the record straight.

skarbrand-glory

A few weeks back Hastings chimed in with this:

via 75hastings69 

GD’s are all finished and have been for some time, however I do not know if the LoC and other unreleased ones will get AoS’d before release (i.e. have slight alterations), FYI the Big Nurgle thing from End Times was originally going to be a GUO.

I know there is some kind of “monster” coming out for Aelves, but as for the Aelves themselves? I’m not sure if the aesthetic has changed at all, in fact I’m almost certain someone told me they were just repacks (along the lines of the Lizardmen) but with some new kits too.

Today we get a lot more from the granddaddy of the rumorsphere on what’s up with the GDs:

via 75hastings69 

I was reliably informed some time ago that CAD files for all of the plastic GD were finished. One of these has been released in the form of the BT, another then became the Glottkin (I was told this was originally going to be a GUO). So whilst the models for the remaining two have not yet been released or possibly even been cast, the CAD files for them are done, and have been for some time.

TheGlottkin01
There are lots of things that do not get either released or even make it to the casting stage. For example there was a CAD file for a Orc “Chariot” of sorts, that saw one of the new style boars, pulling what was described as a large wooden wheelbarrow behind it, this was filled with loads of goblins with bows pointing in all directions, the same file also had extra wooden bits and some snotlings, where it was to be built with the wheelbarrow in front of the boar with the extra bits, forming what I can only assume would be an updated “pump wagon” of sorts. This file was never seen again, and I am not even aware of prototypes of it being made. But I was told by more than one of my reliable sources that the GDs were all done, in fact this was quite a long time ago, as IIRC I also reported that there were to be some RESIN (I guess finecrap) packs for the kits that would make them more specific named GDs.

…BTW I was told the bird head of the new Archaon mount was “very similar” to the LOC head, so take from that what you will. It’s difficult to say really because back when I was in the loop I was hearing about (and in some cases seeing) stuff about 2 years before release. Some eagle eyed viewers even spotted the high elf lord plastic kit assembled and in the background of my painting desk in one of my project logs about 8 months before it was released. It’s the same as blood bowl, those rumours by myself and Harry were based in fact, BB update was coming, it got underway and then got canned (IIRC due to very very poor sales of dreadfleet), then it restarted, then it was canned again, now it’s back. That has always been the problem with reporting rumours so far in advance (i.e. more than 1 year). When you get inside the 1 year mark the releases are largely set in stone, in fact I am only aware of 1 time a release did not happen, and that was for the dwarf lord clampack when the mold genuinely was damaged).

99120201045_ArchaonEverchosen05

Some stuff I reported ages ago may see the light of day eventually, such as the plastic WE spellsinger, but it may not be in the form I originally reported it in.

…The plan is and always has been AFAIK 2 years, I’ve never read anywhere about a solid four year plan for releases. Me & Harry reported back mutterings of BB, each time it restarted, with rumours though you are never totally on the pulse, for example I did not hear it had been canned the first time around until rumour came of the project being restarted. The releases aren’t that flexible certainly inside of 2 years. What did surprise me was that Dreadfleets sales (or lack of) were taken as some sort of “stand alone games aren’t selling” when BB is an entirely different beast with a huge following already! Dreadfleet actually only started out life as a pet project for one of the studio staff, it was not originally planned to be a item available for sale.

dreadfleet

Note that Sad Panda, another accurate rumormonger has been swearing up and down that the Major Daemons are not done as far as he knows, so we have two very reliable sources on the opposite sides of this one…

~Have at it.

 

  • Burnt Angel

    “I’m not sure if the aesthetic has changed at all, in fact I’m almost certain someone told me they were just repacks (along the lines of the Lizardmen)”

    Aelf players across the land collectively /facepalm

    • Pale_Rider86

      “but with some new kits too.”

      You conveniently left that out to strengthen your salty comment.

      • Burnt Angel

        Yeah but doesn’t sound like it is going to be much. Perhaps a unit or two and some character models?

        I had been hoping with all the new ‘high fantasy’ fluff that we would have been seeing quite a serious makeover for the Aelf factions. I was at least hoping that we would get some factions like the Fyreslayers, which have a specific design style and focus. Maybe that is what they mean by ‘some new kits’ but doesn’t feel that way.

        Will keep everything crossed. So eager for new Aelf stuff.

        • Jared van Kell

          Perhaps we will get to see a model of Malerion himself.

          • Burnt Angel

            At the very least, I hope so. And new Tyrion and Teclis models too.

          • Muninwing

            SCs didn’t do enough damage to the game already, bringing back the ones who should have died in the ET (and thus invalidating all the “moving forward” that was supposed to happen) is a thing now?

            this game does nothing for encouraging me to believe GW has any idea what they are doing…

          • wibbling

            Sorry, could you detail what an SC and ET are please?

          • Hedwerx

            I assume, StormCast and End Times.

          • euansmith

            I’m guessing SC = Special Characters and ET = End Times.

          • William Jameson

            I think it would be “Special Character” and “End Times”.

          • Hedwerx

            All together now!

          • Muninwing

            as said below… Special Characters and the End Times.

            – special characters used to be “by opponent agreement only” because of the power curve involved. they often has abilities that were all too easy to exploit. Starting partway through 4th (i think the DA book was the first, and SCs were REQUIRED to run DW/RW armies, though to be fair they were nothing special or points-heavy enough that it was an inconvenience instead of an advantage), they weer allowed in.

            now, what’s an Eldar army without Eldarad? what SM scouts don’t run with Telion? how many simultaneous planets is Pask leading a tank on?

            it’s gone from annoying to ridiculous.

            and in the fluff… somewhere along the line, SCs started becoming the only people who mattered. the ET ends up being 80% about specific people instead of all the general people involved… the armies a justification to bring back the addled mindset that created herohammer.

            add that in to the End Times being such a good idea at start, but so horribly botched in execution due to being rushed (form a player’s standpoint), and you have all the shoddy results of that rushed end. running End Times campaigns before people had the ability to customize or adapt their armies (i’m betting the rush caused plenty of people to buy ET-specific models that are still in their boxes unpainted because events moved too fast so “why bother?” replaces the excitement at the model). it could have run as its own 8th edition, as a gateway into the new system (or systems… had it done well it could have justified a split-line).

            instead it’s a pricy footnote that will never have any actual expansion. or relevance, due to their nuclear-option end.

        • TweetleBeetle

          “…but doesn’t sound like much…”

          Injecting your opinion of Hastings’ words to further aide your originally salty comments.

          He also said, “I’m not sure if the aesthetic has changed at all…” which means he hasn’t seen anything. Saying someone told him it may be like the Seraphon release, while later admitting to being out of the loop means, again, we don’t know anything.

          There are no justifiable facepalms due towards GW or the rumor mongers here.

      • DeadlyYellow

        Were there any special models or sculpts for Aelfs that were only sold in large box sets?

        If so, I think I have a safe guess to what the new kits would be.

  • benn grimm

    I’ll never understand why they’ve taken so long to put out the greater daemons; they are usable in four different armies across two systems, the existing models are crap and have been for years. We’ve had multiple new big monsters, heck we’ve even had whole new armies. They know they sell; look at the derp-thirster brothers (did we really need TWO Khorne GD before we even got one KOS?)…Truly baffling…

    • Baro Barea

      Some kind of “creative commercial thinking” I suppose

      • benn grimm

        I think personally its the opposite of creative thinking. More thinking along the lines of ‘well if dreadfleet didn’t sell, it must mean people don’t want box sets anymore…’ type thinking; ie thinking which barely requires a brain…

        • Muninwing

          these games are niche product with dedicated consumers.

          GW upper management know this, or they wouldn’t have taken the gamble on AoS (i still assert that the must have panic-released it half done, and have been trying to spin that as their plan all along).

          but then they forget when applying what they learned in business school.

          there’s not an effort to understand the consumer, there’s not an effort to reach out to the customer base, there’s been negative efforts to become part of a larger matrix of businesses and individuals working on comparable products for the gains of all. what could be a great building of a community and an inclusive experience is plagued by business models that aren’t necessarily appropriate to the product.

          and their greatest selling factor — the games themselves — are the products that the neglect the quality of.

          • Shiwan8

            GW still does not get that while collectors buy some things, it’s the gamers that buy vast majority of their stock.

          • Muninwing

            it’s true, but a little more complicated than that.

            i’ve played only a handful of games of 7th. kid, masters degree program, full time job, actually liking my wife, they all take time. so i just can’t get out to a store to play.

            that’ll change soon. when it does, i’ll play more.

            but i buy the models with the intent to play. i paint them in their colors with the intent to play. i convert them to be cool and wysiwyg, so i can play with them.

            according to their delineations, i’m a collector, not a player. but i would probably buy more and play more if the rules were better-balanced and i had a little more time — i actually quit 40k for awhile in 5th due to the volume of stupid that collected.

            and i was one of many who had stopped playing WHF due to that same accruing of stupid, but was hoping that 9th would clear it up and i could have fun again.

            but i was not “just a collector” or “just a painter/hobbyist” (i have far too few painted models for that designation). i was a disenfranchised player waiting for them to fix their stupid.

            and if i ever go off on Mat Ward, it’s not that i think it’s all his fault, but that he was such a notable proponent of the imbalances and ridiculousness that he’s the poster boy for GW’s failures. much of the stupid came from him.

            but just because i have 4000 points of beastmen that i now cannot use for anything doesn’t mean that i am now collecting them. i won’t buy any more. i have no use for them. but the Ravenwing project i’ve been working on? that’s totally for use on the table.

          • Shiwan8

            So, you play when you can and buy things you aim to play. I’d say that makes you a gamer. GW thinks it’s main customer base hoards their models yeat never plays the game.

          • Muninwing

            … and i have no idea why.

          • Shiwan8

            They refuse to learn from their mistakes. The convenient lie to cover that up is to claim that gamers are a minority in their customer base. I have no facts to back this up other than what is plainly presented by them, meaning declining customer base combined with the alienation tactics they use to ignore their customers.

          • Muninwing

            i have a strong mental image of old men in dated fancy clothes harrumphing while drinking brandy and smoking cigars… and some pore beleagured secretaries and factotums attempting to interpret the noises they are making to turn it into a company strategy.

          • Shiwan8

            Would not surpized. I assume that there’s just wrong leadership for the company on…pretty much all levels.

        • wibbling

          Dreadfleet, from playing it was just too random.

          • bobrunnicles

            The Dreadfleet models were awesome, including a sea mat in the box was an incredible bonus, it was just the limited nature of it that killed it. Most people interested in Fantasy Naval combat just wanted a rerelease/revision of Man o’War (I know I did!).

          • benn grimm

            Agreed 100%, it was cool n all, but MOW it definitely wasn’t…

          • Muninwing

            it was so niche that i didn’t want it.

            it could have been fun. if it segued into a warbands style of rules for ship-to-ship or ship-to-land combat, if it had access to other groups/races (expansions), if it had relevance to other things i was doing.

            it was too limited and too expensive for just being a standalone game without any weight to it. it needed something else to make it more interesting.

    • Djbz

      Yeah, even with their rules in 40K being meh at best, if they had awesome models they’d still sell regardless

    • rtheom

      My guess would be more along the lines of “We have a warehouse full of finecast LoCs and GUOs, we’re going to wait until this gets down a bit before we actually head into production of the plastics.”

      • benn grimm

        I’m just imagining a literal sea of old crappy finecast, kinda like in Ducktales how Scrooge McDuck used to keep all his gold coins, with Jervis diving in and swimming through it like a lunatic…)

        • Muninwing

          that’s a mental image for the rest of the day.

          in mine he’s wearing one of those old striped swimsuits from the 20s, and diving goggles. and muttering to himself about the evils of points.

  • Dave Grimes

    is khorne players most favorite chaos faction or is it just games workshops favorite faction?im not a gamer, just a miniature collector so im genuinely curious. i always thought the old jes goodwin “dogmen” were cool looking but besides that khorne doesn’t appeal to me personally. just seems kindov ott and corny (like space wolves imo). tzeentch and slaanesh are far more interesting

    • benn grimm

      I think Khorne (and to a lesser extent nurgle) are just easier to write/design as they are fairly straightforward conceptually. I think its also a bit of a viscious cycle; they put out more Khorne stuff, so people buy more khorne stuff, so they go; ‘ooh look khorne sells, we better make more of that… ‘

    • Shiwan8

      The game is designed to prevent melee from happening. Khorne is a melee faction.

      Not a favorite. It’s SM, Tau and Eldar.

      • Phil

        This is nonsense.

        The game encourages Melee, because otherwise, you’d not get melee happening.

        The Studio doesn’t have favourites so much as individual designers might have favourites. The business favours certain things that sell better, Khorne sells better than the other Chaos gods.

        • Andersp90 .

          …and here i thought that most melee armies died with 6th edition..

          • Muninwing

            melee can be very powerful. it’s a chance to damage your opponent on their turn. if you have units that are clearly better, it might be harder to close with them than it used to be, but they can do as much if not more damage.

            if you can negate overwatch, cross the distance, and choose your matchups properly, a melee army with the right tools can wipe out their opposition.

            as an added bonus, the melee units that can do these things are often mobile, meaning that as or after they wipe out your units, they can claim objectives too.

        • Shiwan8

          Something being possible in theory is not encouragement. Those 2 things have nothing in common. Especially in 40k where nothing short of a deathstar (any unit the game balance can not handle) can reach melee in a state in which it has a realistic chance to influence the gaming field.

          The studio releases the rule sets knowing how they work and it’s not like they could not make the game balanced. They just want to favor Tau, Eldar and Marines.

          • Muninwing

            i’m curious though… i’m ramping up a Ravenwing army, and the ability for a Darkshroud to negate overwatch combined with its shrouding radius means that a landraider full of assault-specced terminators, or a unit of Black Knights (with their rending S+1 weapons) might be able to close and do some damage.

            but i know well that they work better as harrier units.

            short of switching to all khorne all the time, i’m not sure what i could do to make a combat specced army…

          • Shiwan8

            Combine wolfstar and some wraith knights. Ta-DA! Melee army!

            It can be done. It’s 100% of the time an act of molestation forced upon the game and it’s players but it can be done.

      • wibbling

        Chaos entire are a melee army. That’s what they do. They have almost no shooting units whatsoever. Those they do have are not very good.

        • Shiwan8

          Yes, and?

          • Muninwing

            … and they are considered one of the weakest armies in the current edition. partially because they have little effective shooting that can counter what is thrown at them.

          • Shiwan8

            Exactly. Outside screamer star there is pretty much nothing worth something in there.

    • Hedwerx

      You mean the old Beastmen, where they were different animals not just goats? Yeah they were cool. I still have my old ones.

      • Dave Grimes

        Yea i love some of those beasties

    • Muninwing

      there have been a few reports that “the only time a book gets worked on is when someone in the design studio opts to take up the project”

      meaning that if someone really likes one of the Four, they can take on that product.

      meaning that the specific faction gets more attention

      meaning that more models, books, formations, etc are available

      meaning that players are more likely to choose that force/army

      meaning that from a business perspective, that move looks successful, where it might have been despite what choice was made.

      i honestly think that GW has no idea what to do with chaos…. the marines, the three of the Four that aren’t traditional war daemons, etc. i don’t think they’ve gotten the right attention for a couple editions now, even incorporating the new units and the changes.

      they’re not scary. Nurgle isn’t oppressive enough, Slaanesh not enticing enough, Tzeentch not Lovecraftian enough. they’re almost cartoony now. and the CSM are more like costume bad guys with worse options than SM rather than a constant terrifying threat to the galaxy.

      and while some easy changes might mitigate some of this, it’s also hard to keep it in balance. so there are, in the long run, no real good options for fixing this easily.

    • The core of my daemonkin are 24 of the dog-letters plus 3 of them mounted on juggers and 2 mounted on a skull cannon, I love those models

      • Dave Grimes

        There wS a couple of cool chOs chamos with the dog head aswell. The look cool with the dogmen as a unit i think

    • Dennis J. Pechavar

      I always thought Nurgle was the favorite.

      • Ben_S

        Although for some reason is took ages to release plastic plaguebearers.

        • Muninwing

          some of my favorite models of all time are the Pestigors… then again GW doesn’t feel the same, they killed marked units of beasts when they suddenly weren’t chaos any more…

          so much mismanagement of that army. sad too, they were a ton of fun to play before GW started their normal “fix what works and don’t fix what’s broken” plans…

  • Andrew

    The advertisement on this website is at ridiculous levels these days. On mobil I was completely unable to get onto this page as it kept sending me to an advertisement page, even without me pressing any links. Sort yourself out BoLS.

    • benn grimm

      If only some one would invent a special program that blocked unwanted advertisements…)

      • Andrew

        Are there any on iPhone that you would recommend

        • benn grimm

          Im not an apple user, but I would guess the well known program which works on PC and Android also works on IOS, (there is a version and it is free). Do a quick google and you’ll see. (I’d post the link, but i don’t think the mods would like very much.)

          • Andrew

            Cheers

          • benn grimm

            No probs

  • Shiwan8

    It’s good to know that yet again CSM got nothing worth while. at least at that GW is consistent.

  • Shyvax

    To this day, I still believe that DreadFleet can work as a side game, if and only if, it was followed by new releases. It was the first game set in the new Warhammer world after all. It is now right on with the time lime and new IP.
    I hope to see more of it in the future.
    The game was condemned the day of its release because GW said loud and clear, this is a one off, don’t expect more of it….

    • Hedwerx

      It’s set in the old world though isn’t it? The background mentions Sartosa in Tilea, and Zandri in Nehekhara.

      They should just bring back Man’o’War IMO. Either an AoS’d version or the original.

      • Shyvax

        they have to go through a portal that lead in an other world… my interpretation, is they land in the world of the the dead…. at least that s the way I understand it.

        • Muninwing

          hm…

          you may have just stumbled onto a very important fact that could be used for WHF background, or if you’re desperate AoS.

          the Old World died, yes?

          do just entities go to the land of the dead? or do concepts? do places destroyed?

          you could set an entire campaign in the Old World populated by the dead who still think they are alive in their old lands. and thus have a setting that has definition and character.

        • Daniel Sundblad

          While true, it fits, I wouldn’t call it a deliberate foreshadowing of the new setting, but rather just the same situation with pocket-realms or what have you described for the Empire Colleges of Magic, as early as at least the 6th ed armybook (00 or 01), if not even earlier in the magic supplements for 4th and 5th edition.

  • nurglitch

    “Major”?

  • ken

    Box sets with minis will sell well when there’s a crossover. Dreadfleet was dead on arrival as there was no crossover available. Blood bowl can easily use fantasy minis. I’m happy to see specialist games making a return. I would love to see Inquisitior comeback. I enjoyed painting the 54mm minis and would early use them in my 40k RPGs.

    • Ben_S

      You won’t get much crossover between BB and Fantasy miniatures since BB players rarely have axes or swords…

      • ken

        Really? Odd, I’ve seen one, maybe two, BB teams that were not WHFB minis converted into BB teams. I guess I ‘could’ have type converted WHFB minis, but given the audience of this page it isn’t necessary.

        • Ben_S

          Well, I guess you haven’t seen that many BB teams. Sure, converted WFB figures are common (most of mine are like that) but there are plenty of companies making ‘fantasy football’ figures.

          I guess the issue is what’s meant by ‘crossover’. I was assuming you meant the same model being usable in another game – so B@C and Execution Force sold because people could use the models for 40k (and/or 30k).

          Generally speaking, a model isn’t usable in BB and WFB at the same time. Sure, you can convert a WFB model into a BB one, or vice versa, but it ceases to be useful for its original purpose. It’s not a model that you can use in two games, in the same way as an Assassin is.

          • ken

            We’re assuming that each other is using crossover in the same way. We all know what happens when you assume! Lol. I see crossover as, bought for game x, used in game y. Being able to use them in either game willy-nilly doesn’t matter. There are plenty of WHFB minis than can be converted to 40k. Some can be used in either game at any point, and some require converting if you wish to use in only one of the games.

            Ceasing to be useful in the original purpose is not a defining point of crossing over, IMO. It is, for you, and that’s fine. Crossover is just a term used when going from one side to the other. Back to my OG point, dreadfleet was destined to to end at one box because there was no ability to cross over.

          • Ben_S

            I see what you’re saying. It’s a perfectly valid point, because someone might buy a game just to use the bits for conversions. But if you use the term in that way, then it’s no longer obvious that Dreadfleet has *no* crossover potential. It’s not as promising as many other options, sure, but who knows what some creative person might repurpose bits for?

            In contrast, something like B@C doesn’t need repurposing – the pieces are straightforwardly usable in other games (while also still being usable for their original purpose). I reckon that’s more significant than the possibility of using things as conversion material, though I agree that conversion potential can drive some sales.

  • JP

    Pfft. For intents and purposes that Glottkin is perfectly usable as a Great Unclean One.

  • Matt Craufurd

    Does anyone know why BoLS insists on calling them Major Daemons and not Greater Daemons like everyone else, including GW, does?