Much Destruction, Very 40k – Titans VS Astra Militarum

guard-walpaper-e1449023066950

What happens when a pure Astra Militarum force goes up against Titans? Things die – that’s what.


Two Knight Titans and a Blood Angel / Space Wolf army go toe to toe with a Pure Pask Led Astra Militarum list. What specific list? Who cares, machines will explode!

Turn by turn Madden commentary is here Kenny Boucher and Rob Baer

Kenny: So, for the set up, I think Gray set up poorly, he lined up his knights against Pask; if you don’t know what Pask does or respect him, he will wreck you. Of course, most people would think the knights are pretty durable and could take the punishment but they’d be wrong. The better match up would have been Pask versus the super friends, in my opinion.

Rob: A lot of people just don’t know what guard can do. They have a lot of tools; I see Wyverns, Manticores, Malacador Infernus which will put a hurt on some Thunder Wolves. Pask is such a swiss army knife when it comes to killing, like anything.

050416-LongWarDoubles-AMvThunderdome-001

 

Kenny: Pask is good for 4 hull points on a Land Raider any day of the week. Now the Wyverns, literally one of the best infantry killers in the game zones in and goes for that Sanguinary Priest and takes him out. Another deployment mistake for Gray is that these Knight titans are close enough to each other, that the Manticore can hit the side armor and knock off two hullpoints right there.

Rob: Turn 2 Gray moves his army up, I see that he has a drop pod and I’d think he’d be going after those Wyverns in the backfield with his dreadnought. I would have also ran my Knights instead of shooting at them and just get danger close (24″) to Pask.

050416-LongWarDoubles-AMvThunderdome-002

 

Kenny: yeah, he’s afraid of Pask so he’s going to try and get him, but he can’t interact with Pask really. But the mission does say kill something in the first turn and hold an objective so he’s trying to get on the scoreboard. In this mission any points you get you keep, it doesn’t matter who wins.

Rob: I think he can do some damage, he couldn’t get points because it’s a squadron.

Kenny: Unfortunately for Gray he wasn’t able to convert and now for Astra Militarium this is a target rich environment for them. They get to line up their shots and decide how they want to convert.

Rob: He should have protected his flanks a bit more, I think those knights should be up at the top of the board.

Kenny: I think he should have null deployed. You can see because of his deployment he’s going to pay and lose both his knights in round 2. He does have 10 jump pack death company marines in the rear. The Vulture took out the dreadnought. But he has to make a 10 inch charge or he might as well shake hands.

Rob: I think a 10 inch charge, with fleet, is really easy to make though.

Kenny: I agree, that’s what fleet is for, it’s there to take chances. He makes it in, he gets the Warlord and that significantly reduces Astra Militarums fire power. That’s a solid 50% of the damage he’s been taking.

050416-LongWarDoubles-AMvThunderdome-035

 

Rob: The Infernus can go over and take out that Death Company. But they’re going to build little bubble warps around it hopefully.

Kenny: In the next turn, Grey opts to split up the death star, go against the Imperial Guard in combat and then go after Malcador’s Infernus; which turns out to be a bad move. The thunder wolf loses in combat and then it’s the whole army against his one guy. Sometimes, you have to ignore what’s killing you and go after a different threat. This is not an impossible obstacle just bad deployment.

050416-LongWarDoubles-AMvThunderdome-037

 

Rob: Just moving his knights and not stopping in the middle would have helped him out in the long run.

Kenny: He could have stayed out of range of at least half the Wyverns.

Rob: He would have lost his priest no matter what but he could have given himself a chance with better deployment.

Kenny: Exactly, he could have at least stayed out of 48” range of at least two of those Wyverns. He stayed in like a trooper and played it out.

For a full play by play break down check out the video below:

40k Tournament Game – Imperial Knights Vs Astra Militarum


Did GW Fix 40k? New FAQ – Long War Podcast Episode 50

  • Badgerboy1977

    Knights are not Titans….

    • OldHat

      Came here to say this too. I think they do it just to get at folks like us, honestly.

      • Badgerboy1977

        Probably more about clicks I’d say as the idea of actual Titans vs AM appeals more than regular knights, at least to me anyway 😉

        It’s either that or they’re just making the same ill informed mistake that many others do, though you’d think they might do a bit more research seeing as they’re supposed to be writing about the subject on a regular basis.

        • OldHat

          Can’t it be both? lol

          Also, I am immensely annoyed they didn’t post lists. Hard to evaluate what happens when you don’t know the tools that are being used.

          • Andrew Thomas

            Two theories: Standard Mech-Vet list wit Pasque and Arty support, or a CAD + Emperor’s Wrath. Most likely the former, as there are not nearly enough Wyverns on the board, as far as I can tell.

          • OldHat

            Shouldn’t have to guess when it comes to stuff like this. But maybe I am just overly critical.

    • georgelabour

      Sadly GW decided to add the word ‘titan’ to the webstore entry when the original model came out. I also think the original kit had ‘contain 1x knight titan’ on it somewhere but I can’t find any of those boxes to double check.

      That and the fact they’re super heavy walkers has unfortunately left those lacking in true fanboy knowledge unaware of the fact that they are properly referred to as Knight Suits or Knight Armor.

      🙁

      • Severius_Tolluck

        GW more or less retcon that though. So no matter what we want to think it is… they are now considered titans, just the smallest class.

        • georgelabour

          Except that other than a single run of boxes there’s nothing anywhere else that has the word knight and titan.

          Certainly the current warden box doesn’t have the word titan on it and I am fairly certain the current run of the ‘old’ kit lacks the word as well.

          Thus all extant material , especially canon lore, refers to them as suits, armor, machines, etc but not Titans.

          • Severius_Tolluck

            Except in novels where they are either listed as knight titans, or just knights. They haven’t referred to it as armor in a long time.

          • georgelabour

            You’ll need to provide the appropriate reference to back up that declaration.

            Please remember to include a page number.

          • Severius_Tolluck

            Regardless what page number it is or isn’t, because I am not a walking encyclopedia, you don’t have evidence to the contrary either. GW is the creator and holder of the IP, if they say they are titans now, they are titans.

          • georgelabour

            So you have absolutely nothing that says they are titans other than your own declaration.

            Using your own words here I’m going to say that since GW has not once classified them in canon as being Titan class war engines then they are not titans.

            That they have referred to them in all manner of ways others have repeatedly cited, and can provide references for, merely lends further weight to the stance you have proven unable to refute.

            The lack of any canonical reference to them being titans supports that statement. Your inability to substantiate your own position supports that statement.

            Just to drive home the absurdity of your arguement. Declaring the color blue to be pink because a crayon was once wrapped in the wrong paper label is still not going to make it any less blue.

            Calling an elephant a whale because you found a misprinted encyclopedia in a trashbin is also not going to turn the world of zoology on its head.

          • Severius_Tolluck

            You are building a stupid case, trying to make me sound like a fool. I am currently at work and can not just pull info like that out of a hat, and you yourself have failed to prove me wrong. You yourself have not given proof. As i Said before. If GW on their own volition on their own site claim that they are titans, then they are now titans, regardless of what nostalgia you hold on to.

            But all GW meta serches to their website if you lookup titan direct you to their knights, the lexicanum refer to them as low level titans, wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Knight as do warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Knight

            In the board game that first introduced titans, it had a second ed which became epic later on, and in that game, Adeptus Titanicus: Codex Titanicus, It classified titans and eventually were able to buy figures from warlord down to knights.

            I will state that from The Mechanicum book in the Horus heresy series states knights were independent of the actual legions and were delegated more for patrolling the wastes and cities of mars but were still low level titans. Add ten thousand years and now the new fluff states they are nobles or such and never directly refer to them as titans beyond STC. This I give you as they are no longer under the jurisdiction of Mars and no longer are directly referenced to as knights.

          • georgelabour

            You did not say you needed time. You declared you would not prove anything you’ve said, and instead made a de factor declaration despite repeated evidence and facts being presented.

            By all means take the time you need to make your case, but do not pretend that ‘I said so’ is sufficient.

            As for my proof. Do you wish me to list every reference to suit, steed, or armor in reference to a Knight in both editions of the current Codex, Mechanicum, and Knights of the Imperium? because I can easily do so.

      • euansmith

        “Ready my Knight Suit, Lord Castellan!”

        “Here it is, M’lord! Your gown, your hat and your Hello Kitty slippers!”

        “No, you fool! My Knight Suit! Not my Night Suit!”

        • Severius_Tolluck

          Oh that one rattled my hackles today, good one sir!

    • Damistar

      Technically they are Knight Titans, as opposed to Scout Titans (Warhounds) or Battle Titans (Reaver or Warlord)

      • Badgerboy1977

        They’re really not, I promise you 🙂

        • Damistar

          I did say technically. I agree that the article tease was misleading.

        • Lord Elpus

          I promise you, they are…

          • Badgerboy1977

            Show me evidence then as I’ve never seen any in my 30 odd years of buying GW goods.

          • Lord Elpus

            Happily!!
            http://www.amazon.com/Games-Workshop-Warhammer-Imperial-Knight/dp/B00IOBO0YY.
            Also check out 40k wiki too… for starters…

          • Badgerboy1977

            That is not evidence, that is a third party seller who has gotten the name wrong, if it was correct it would also state that on the GW product page as well.
            As for the 40k wiki, they do not refer to them specifically as Titans and even if they had it would still not be cannon as they are not an official source.

            Show me somewhere in actual, official GW fluff that states they are Titans in any way.

          • Lord Elpus

            Right. Go onto the gw website. Search for titan… see what appears..

          • Badgerboy1977

            Comes up with the book: Grey knight sons of titan and nothing else for me on the UK site. What’s your point?

          • Lord Elpus

            My point is when I type titan into the g.w search box the complete range of knights and other stuff comes up.. g.w DO class them as mini type knights these days, old fluff has often been rewritten, sensi comes to mind..
            This is my last post on this..

          • Badgerboy1977

            Doesn’t happen for me and could just be a legacy of their original misnaming in your case. What does it for me though is that they are not referred to as Titans either in the current fluff from any books or from the original fluff in the epic days.

          • OldHat

            Dig through the Codex and tell me where they are at all referred to as Titans? That is where we get canon from and if it is so obvious, it should be in there at least once.

          • georgelabour

            I typed in derp and got Theoden (helm’s deep).

            Does that mean Theoden is a derp?

      • georgelabour

        Not even technically. Going back to the original material and up through their recent appearances in canon lore they’re referred to as knights, Knight suits, Knight Armor, or some varation thereof.

        other than mentions of them serving alongside titans and even becoming seconded to some legions they are never themselves referred to as being the class of war machine referred to as Titans.

        Again the only time GW has ever mixed the term titan with knight was on early runs of the original paladin kit. That mistake has been amended, and hardly qualifies as canonical evidence.

    • Lord Elpus

      Actually, they ARE classed as titans..

      • Badgerboy1977

        No I’m afraid they definitely are not and never have been even in their original epic guise.

        If you’ve got evidence to the contrary then please share.

        • SYSTem050

          Forge world has currently classified them as titans.

          Personally I think of them as a class of the own eg knights but it would appear that the are indeed knight titans

          • Badgerboy1977

            Can’t see that one myself, they’re in their own knight or questoris knight sections on the FW website from what I can see. I’ll check my HH books later but I don’t remember them being referred to as Titans in those either tbh.

          • SYSTem050

            Screenshot. Like I said I disagree but that’s what forge world thinks

          • Badgerboy1977

            I’d say that’s probably a mistake as they don’t mention it in the fluff, have their own separate sections on the website and don’t appear in the actual titan sections.

  • euansmith

    I like the top-down view with “Dad’s Army” style arrows.

    • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

      They don’t like it up ’em

      • euansmith

        That Wraith Knight certainly didn’t in the trailer to Dawn of War III.

  • denzark

    So near, yet so far. I thought i’d actually get to read a battle report. 2 turns in… and go to a video. Or, don’t click at all.

  • Just post a video only, or take the time to write a full report. This splitting hairs is worse.

    Tell you what BoLS, you take the time to write a real Report, and I’ll click your video link anyways. Until then, no video click.

  • Nameless

    Unless I am greatly mistaken Pask wont be good for 4 hull points on a landraider/Knight.

    only his gatling cannon gains rending which admittedly is 20 str 5 rending shots. he has preferred enemy vs units from a codex if he is your warlord coupled with his bs 4 means a lot of hits.

    but even with rerolls to pen (I assume that is from a formation its not mentioned in the codex) you need 6’s followed by 3’s on the d3 to glance a Landraider. So long as the ion shield is in the arc Pask is then the odds are the same for the knight (needing 2’s or 3’s on the d3 doubles the chance but the 4++ halves it again) which leads to 1.58 hull points a turn or 3 turns of shooting for the landraider and 4 turns for the knight.

    the odds do get better if you can reroll the d3 as part of the armour pen roll (I’m not 100% sure either way) bringing down the landraider in 2 turns and the knight in 3.

    • Andrew Thomas

      He brings buddies, though. Too bad he can’t take Beast-Killer Rounds, ’cause then he’d be ridiculous.

  • Gideon Ernesto

    wow