Goatboy’s 40k: Chaos Gets a Nasty Death Star

With out a doubt the worst dressed band ever! It's 80's christian metal band Stryper. It's Bananas In Pyjamas meets black metal. Stare at the diagonal stripes and feel the dizziness. (Getty Images)

Welcome to a Goatboy 40k list special.  Today I go over the return of the “Chaos Space Marine Character” death star of doom.

pictured: Chaos Sorcerer Cabal (Tzeentch)

That’s right even the bag guys can have a crazy powerful star that brings so much psychic pain it even has a chance to stop a power or two when facing down the current leader of the death star dumb dumbs – Thunderballz and Friends.  A quick warning: this is not a happy go lucky fun list as its designed to fight in the current crop of “competitive” 40k games where either you shoot insanely deadly or survive just about anything your opponent throws at you.

To begin this star glues 3 books together in order to get working.  2 of the books combine up to make the unit and the 3rd is there as a support option that while not nearly as deadly as the initial star it is there to help you win the game by either controlling maelstrom objectives or murdering the side units a lot of msu armies use to help compete.  With that – let’s get to the list and how it works.

The Chaos Death Star

Black Legion Formation: The Cyclopia Cabal (3-5 Black Legion Sorcerers)
Sorcerer, Bike, Level 3, The Black Mace, Spell Familiar, Veteran of the Long War, Force Axe
Sorcerer, Bike, Level 3, Spell Familiar, Veteran of the Long War, Force Axe
Sorcerer, Bike, Level 3, Spell Familiar, Veteran of the Long War, Force Axe
Sorcerer, Bike, Level 3, Spell Familiar, Veteran of the Long War, Force Axe, Melta bomb

Khorne Daemonkin Ally
Herald of Khorne, Juggernaut, Locus of Wrath
Bloodletters X 8
Flesh Hounds X 10

Daemon CAD
Fateweaver – Warlord
Herald of Tzeentch, Lvl 3, Disc, Exalted Gift
Herald of Tzeentch, Lvl 3, Disc, Paradox
Nurglings X 3
Nurglings X 3
Screamers of Tzeentch X 6

1850 List

worstband-9-1

pictured: Chaos Sorcerer Cabal (Nurgle)

Choosing Your Powers

This list throws the Sorcerer with the Herald of Khorne into one big fat dog unit that can gain a ton of powers when using a specific set of psychic powers.  The Screamer Star is just there as a side unit that is very annoying to get rid of and helps pump up your WC dice.  Right now as is the list starts at 22 WC + whatever is rolled so when a Librarian Conclave only throws a 1-2 you have a good chance to stop a power.

The big thing is how you roll for powers with this list.  Thankfully the Chaos Sorcerers  can roll on Sanctic.  I know what you are thinking – but Sanctic is extremely powerful as it has 3 different powers that all cost 1 WC and make the Khorne dog unit pretty nutty.  Gate will allow you to have a “vague” form of Hit and Run and lets you reset your hatred.  Hammerhand makes all your dogs so much stronger and each of your Sorcerers become power houses with Strength 7 attacks.  Sanctuary is the final nail in the good guy power fist of doom as while it causes your poor dogs to be in dangerous terrain – it does give them a +1 to their Invulnerable save.  Of course since they are beasts the Dangerous terrain doesn’t matter at all you can see how that power is really a benefit.  Just make sure your Screamers are not too close to cause issues when they zoom around.  Even Vortex can be useful in a pinch when you need to throw out a D shot.

From there you want to fish for Iron Arm and Endurance on the Black Mace Sorcerer.  If you roll Iron Arm the Sorcerer gains smash which allows his mace to hit your opponents at AP 2.  Endurance means its going to take forever to kill your dogs as they are fearless and each wound will need to be removed to effectively pull a model.  From there you could always roll for Invisibility but I find you don’t always need it.  Sometimes having your opponent feel like they have a chance to hit can help win you the game as the unit gets attention when they might not if they are extremely powered up.

The 2 Heralds of Tzeentch can go for Divination as Forewarning and Prescience are both decent.  Forewarning drops an invulnerable save on the Sorcerers as Grim and Cursed Earth doesn’t help them.  I usually leave the Paradox Herald rolling on Malefic as he has a good shot to summon stuff if needed.  I lost Alamo because I didn’t throw everything into making Screamers so getting a guaranteed unit on 5 dice is pretty important.

Here is how I roll the powers when starting the game.  Having an order to this will help you decide some of the “extra” casters you have in this list and give you the best set of options to ensure you have the right powers to become a fully operational Death Star to make Darth Vader proud.

1 – Fateweaver – generate all his powers as it will help you pick where you need to go with your heralds etc.  If you get cursed earth you might not need Malefic depending on the match up.
2 – Herald of Tzeentch – Divination for all 3 powers.  You want to go for Forewarning and of course swap one out for Prescience.
3 – Herald of Tzeentch w/Paradox – Divination, Malefic, or Tzeentch powers.  If you got Cursed Earth plus Forewarning then dropping some into Tzeentch to maybe get the D spell might be a good idea with the Paradox Herald.
4 – Biomancy Black Mace Sorcerer – Iron Arm, Endurance, Warp Speed, Enfeeble – There are 4 powers that all do well for you so keeping this guy doing the hot body magic is best.
5 – Sanctic Guy who doesn’t know he is bad – Sanctuary, Gate, Hammerhand are all good things to go for.
6 – Sanctic Guy # 2 or Telepathy – You got Hammerhand and Sanctuary you are good to go and so you can get some Psychic Shriek, Invisibility, and Shrouding.
7 – Telepathy Guy #2 – you end with this as while you might have everything you need it doesn’t help to have some protection on the power department in case of losing one to combat or something like a Perils or two.

DeathStar3

Using the Death Star

This list builds itself pretty easy and you play the normal Death Star way of moving forward with the dogs and having your Screamers either support behind it if you need Cursed Earth or moving off to remove those weenie MSU units.  The Troops start in reserves most games and Deep strike in with dreams of holding an objective and actually winning the game for you.

I initially tested the list this last weekend against a Dark Angels/Thunder Wolves star with Azrael.  The key to this match up was trying to stop the powers that would stop you from putting a wound or two onto the unit – Veil of Time.  I found that you don’t have to stop invisibility as while it makes the unit harder to kill – with Prescience or Hatred going, hitting on a rerollable 5 is usually good enough to do some damage.  The important spell to stop is Veil of Time as it really turns off a ton of your power when trying to get through a reroll 4++.  I usually let the player try to get invisibility and then save any dice for Veil, Sanctuary, or Hammerhand.  The Sorcerers are extremely strong at rolling for 1 WC powers so you can easily bait your opponent out with 1 or 2 rolls for Sanctuary, Hammerhand, Force, and Cursed Earth.  Then you can easily cast Endurance (usually better for you), Iron Arm, and Gate/etc.

The true power of the list doesn’t rely on casting everything on a 2+ or 3+ – it instead is so efficient with using WC dice that it can easily cast 5-6 powers a turn, reliably and with extra dice for “fun” stuff like the random D shot from Fate or trying to summon a unit or two.  I always had dice left to try some single WC powers like Force at the end of any “spell battle” and always had dice to throw at Endurance.  Heck with a Fateweaver reroll, perils isn’t nearly as much of an issue if you need a power to go off.

While playing the match up the opponent thought he might try to roll for Null Zone but when you do all the abilities of increasing my Inv save it ended up being a wash with the +2 from the Grim, +1 for Sanctuary, +1 from Cursed Earth, and then adding in how the Warp Storm gives another +1.  Plus I could stop the power on a 4+ with my dice so it didn’t even matter.

Now is this list unbeatable?  Heck no.  Knights can be a big problem as while they can crunch it in combat with some key rolls – a few 6 stomps can mean the end of my caster star.  Heck a Chaos Knight boosted up will force me to use Grim on him and this leaves me open to retaliation.  I do think some anti psychic options will do wonders too as while you can power up you can’t get anywhere near a Culexus.  The Thunder Star doesn’t always care too much as they are still Strength 10 with a ton of hatred influence powerfists/thunder hammers.

bad-photos-gold-guys

pictured: Chaos Sorcerer Cabal (Slaanesh)

 

~Think the Chaos Death Star can stand up with the “big boys” out there in the meta?

  • Robert Niederkorn

    can someone ban this way of thinking. really why do people write list just to kick the leaving crap out of people. i got a great idea ban death star and make power dice limit 12 dice a standard and pyser phase wont be so broken

    • euansmith

      I guess it is a valid way to play; just so long as they do it with consenting adults.

    • zeno666

      So your way is the only correct way to play the game?

      • Muninwing

        no, but this way is guaranteed to not be fun for most of your opponents, meaning you’re essentially just playing with yourself in public in more ways than one.

        • zeno666

          Ah yes, of course, the Muninwing powerpoint-presentation again with made up numbers.
          Do you know my opponents?

          Just so you know, there are actually people who like to play games this way. Let them play each other and have fun.

          Don’t be tabletop-police.

          • Bill Hicks

            I love both sides: the game-within-a-game meta analysis, and the fluff story filled fun. Having just come back from a tournament the problem occurs when the fun folks mix with the game theory level folks and it ends in feel bad.

            There has to be a happy medium as I believe its impossible to have both in the same place. For tournaments it should be explicitly stated, bring your best list and have at it, no prisoners. I’d like to see more themed based tournaments (imperial vs xneos for example where the importance is put on a narrative, say 10 tables and each victory claims a table and the teams collectively decide who will face who, perahs culminating in a big 3vs3 game)

          • zeno666

            I’m really with you on this one 🙂
            Heck, I don’t even play this game anymore, I have up on it a looong time ago.
            But I really do love the xeno’s vs imperial idea!
            It would be great to see something else besides space marines (with or without spikes) against space marines (with or without spikes).

          • Muninwing

            someone’s oversensitive.

            someone’s also being the very police he’s whining about.

            do i know your opponents? no. but if your sole goal is to try to prove how smart you are, that’s not an engaging game for anyone but you.

            if you have a highly competitive environment that you play in, maybe it’s full of that kind of oneupsmanship… and that’s fine. just don;t assume that’s the norm either.

            when someone says “can we not have yet another article about the spammy supercompetitive stuff” that’s not an attack on you. that’s commentary on the fact that other people like different things.

            so when you get all butthurt over their comments, claiming they are somehow infringing on your play style, you’ve already started attacking theirs.

            get over yourself.

          • zeno666

            I think your Shift-key is broken.

          • Muninwing

            i think enough people use all caps to make up for it.

            and i hope that’s not part of what you think is a rebuttal. grammar-nazi-ing as a default when someone has nothing else to say just comes across as petty.

            i could care less how you play — i’ll never play you. but the game has two players. and if you just jump into the WAAC-cheez armies because they are fun for you, there’s the possibility that (if you are not checking with your opponent, if your local meta isn’t super-competitive, etc) you are basically taking pleasure running roughshod over someone looking for a fun game, who spends a couple hours not having fun because your list shenanigans have taken any playability out of the game for them.

            if it’s a new player, you might be guilty of getting them to quit the hobby. i’ve seen that happen a few times, because ego got in the way of sportsmanship.

            i don’t know if that’s what you do. though how fast you got super-sensitive about it implies a lot.

            it’s a thing. you have to know that. you’ve seen it before. people who run into that over-wrought mindset time and time again, and see nothing but that online, they get sick of seeing the same thing over and over. do they really want to take away your ability to have fun? no. they just want to stop others from taking their fun away from them.

            not everyone wants to lovingly recreate the Carcharodons 4th Company during the Pentarchy of Blood, or some other fluffy but not supercompetitive build. not everyone wants to cheez out allies in builds that run counter to all available fluff. but not everyone wants to have to play eldar d-domination in order to not lose.

            can’t there be a balance without you getting butthurt?

          • zeno666

            Hmm, looks like its still broken.

      • kobalt60

        while i find it the height of arrogance to lurk the internet and tell people they are “doing it wrong”, whatever ‘it’ is, i do think playing a 30 year old game steeped in 30 years of fluff, and ignoring it all to cherrypick a winning list is not what was intended. Also, i’m arrogant, and ok with it

    • chaotichris

      Nerf Invisibility, get battle brothers alliance benefits out and you limited deathstars a great deal.

      • Spacefrisian

        Why nerf it, just allow a visibility counter part, a power that removes invisibiltiy and or reduces cover saves by 1. problem solved. Anyone from ETC reading this?

        • Muninwing

          meh… it’s too powerful for what it is. thus, it needs a nerfing instead of incorporating a counter and making the system more burdensome.

        • chaotichris

          Nerf it, you lose it if you shoot or charge and must be out of combat to cast it. It will still protect a unit while it is moving but it won’t make it unbeatable. No battle brothers will disallow crazy combos for special rules.

    • Spacefrisian

      Wait till they discover it about putting that same Chaos Sorceror on a steed instead of a bike.

    • I played this list last week, it really wasn’t that tough, a miscast on invis makes the hound unit easy pickings. I just tarpitted them and they accomplished little. I still lost but the match was close and if it wasn’t relic it would’ve been a draw (they didn’t get gate though)

  • euansmith

    I like to play, “Spot the Plumber” with band photos; spotting which member of the group just can’t summon up the correct look to fit in with the rest of the band.

    With these, Tzeentch Plumber is second from the left, Slaanesh Plumber is second from the right and Nurgle… well, Nurgle is all plumbers, all the time (although they do seem to have actor, Richard Griffiths, filling out their front row).

    • JPMcMillen

      I think it’s funny that the picture they used for the Tzeentch sorcerers was the Christian hair metal band Stryper.

      Yes, I am old enough to remember them from back when MTV actually showed music videos all day.

      • euansmith

        Stryper? I don’t like this modern 1980’s music. It is odd that their clone band, Stryker, got the better name.

  • SundaySilence

    Yay for deathstars….

    Yay…

  • Djbz

    Psykers in a Khorne unit….
    NO, BAD, KHORNE DOES NOT APPROVE!!

    • Nathaniel Wright

      That Guy cares not from whom the win flows.

    • It’s goatboy. I’d be surprised if he knows half the Codex fluff text of the units he’s spamming in his lists.

      • This isn’t GB’s list, it has won several small GTs and he’s discussing it in the context of what it’s are goths are and what players should expect when facing it. If you are going to a GT you should know how to play against lists like this if you want to be prepared

    • Spacefrisian

      These powers are blood powered…thats ok right?

  • ILikeToColourRed

    just started reading – daemons cannot join non daemons (in their rules)

    • LordKrungharr

      Independent characters can join Daemonkin units with the Daemons rule because they lack the Daemonic Instability rule of the Chaos Daemons Codex.

      • ILikeToColourRed

        thank you for the clarification, I play slaanesh so never ventured into daemonkin

  • CatachanCommissar

    I love the pictures of the sorcerers hahahhaha.

    Side note, it must be a nightmare keeping track of all those spells and what sorcerer has what. No amount of power is worth that much record-keeping to me, no thank you.

    • I played a game against this list that went to T5, took 5 hours

      • CatachanCommissar

        That sounds horrendous. I’ll stick to my armies where everyone has the same primaris powers. I know it’s boring and I’m nerfing myself, but I’m ok with it.

        • When I’m done my tzeentch army I’ll definitely take the Cyclopean cabal out for a drive, that many psykers is perfect, but I won’t be running them in a khorne unit lol

  • Koszka

    I yearn for the day where I don’t have to book keep my opponents’ psykers in a tourney game. A lot of players have this uncanny ability to forget what spells belong to which psyker. Doesn’t help a person’s case when they roll up with the same model 4 times in a conclave. ughhhhhhhhh.

  • ZeeLobby

    Welcome to 40K, a game with the most awesome fluff, that it doesn’t reflect at all!

    • OldHat

      Naw, the game is fine. I have fluffy armies. The problem is with listbuilders who do this sort of stuff, crapping on the spirit of the game almost entirely.

      • ZeeLobby

        I’d say even balanced armies do a poor job representing the fluff. SM armies should be relatively small and elite in size, the basic marine being able to both take and dish out punishment pretty solidly with his boltgun. I rarely see a boltgun these days.

        • OldHat

          Well, anecdotal evidence isn’t ideal, obviously. I know folks who play fluff lists that eschew power and winning for a reflection of the army’s character and “fun”. So, I think the play group is a big factor.

          I think a lot rides on the player to make the army reflect the fluff. I think the Codices are capable of this – but again, the player must do so and that isn’t going to happen always, especially in tourney settings.

          • ZeeLobby

            I mean nothing i said was anecdotal but reality. SMs reflect their fluff poorly. The codexes SHOULD help people build fluffy armies, but right now it’s like throwing a hotdog down a hallway. If you introduced an army to a player with no fluff attached and had them build a list, it would probably look nothing like what’s common in the fluff. I think more restrictions would make armies more characterful all around.

        • Muninwing

          some potential changes for that…

          1. increase wounds on models to reflect their resilience (make 2 base… SM would have 3-4, orks 4, etc)

          2. allow certain weapons (like bolt-based ones) to do more wounds

          3. make 3 the stat for an average human or a trained militant Eldar/Tau, 4 the stat for an in-shape professional human soldier, and 5+ for superhuman strength (like Ork, monstrous creature, certain daemons, etc)

          increase all points to accurately reflect the increased stats, with a functional and balanced universal points algorithm.

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah. I mean all of that sounds good to me. I don’t think they’ll ever do it. If power armored equivalents cost more points they’d sell less.

          • Muninwing

            counter-argument: a better-balanced game would be more of an investable product for everyone regardless of army chosen.

            what you’d lose in SM sales, you would gain in retention and expansion

            WHF was replaced because it didn’t sell well enough. why was that? release after release of short-term-gain imbalance undermined the game.

        • An_Enemy

          Stern hammer detachment. Twin links all bolt weapons. It’s pretty solid for MSU Marines.

    • Spacefrisian

      I remember the Salamander melta spam lists….lore friendly and we obviously do not use a cheap re-roll it all weapon and spam it as many times as possible. Those players tend to avoid my Avatar of Khaine for some reason.

      • ZeeLobby

        Haha. yeah. It’s never been handled in a graceful way, but it could be.

  • This list is the ultimate proof something is broken in 40k. and that thing is canon. because the second I read “This list throws the Sorcerer with the Herald of Khorne into one big fat dog unit” I was thinking “why the bleeding hell is this even legal ?” followed by “Doesn’t Khorne absolutely hates magic ??”

    In older editions, there were rules that clearly said that Khorne and Tzeentch aren’t exactly the best buds. heck, in codex Chaos V2, you had to chose: either Khorne and Nurgle, or Slaanesh and Tzeentch. I know the aim of turnaments is to win at all cost, but sooner or later we see these “tournament” lists appear in clubs or friendly games, and they just ruin the mood.

    I don’t mind tournaments. my biggest problem with them is that they give births to these abominations, and said monstruosities worm their way into friendly games, and the “win at all cost, even at the cost of the game bloody fluff” mentality spreads.

    TL,DR, for pete’s sake, reintroduce chaotic animosity (or whatever it was called in the days of old) and nerf battle brother benefits.

    • OldHat

      “This list is the ultimate proof something is broken in 40k. ”

      No no, it isn’t 40k that is broken. It is the players. I cringe at the sight of lists like this too. But if his group is a bunch of WAAC players, who is to say they can’t do this and enjoy it? A lot falls on the players to take ownership of 40k in their local groups. You don’t want to play against this, then don’t. They will tire of only getting to play in tourneys (if at all) and will either quit or get into the swing of non-WAAC games.

      GW gave us a big ol’ sandbox. We just have to play in it responsibly.

      • Spacefrisian

        Drop the points to 1000, it deals with a lot of irresponsible lists out there. Off course some dont like it, you know what they usually play.

        • Muninwing

          1000-point games are fun and fast. and while i like larger ones so i can field a variety, they are a really great simple number.

        • Honestly, I don’t enjoy games smaller than 2000, 1850 is a compromise to fit in enough games in a weekend

    • Admiral Raptor

      Nothing will fix 40k other than a hard reset. Throw out 7th edition and all it’s awful codices, formations, and detachments. A fresh start with a totally new system is what’s needed. The current rule set has nothing worth saving.

      • Muninwing

        your mileage may vary.

        formations are not the problem. good formations are fun and more interesting. badly created ones that give too much are the problem, and need fixing not striking.

        other than “i’m old, so i like old things, you whippersnappers should respect this!” thinking, what are your actual gripes with 7th?

        • Admiral Raptor

          Besides being old and curmudgeonly, most of my problems stem from the fact that the game feels too cluttered and clunky. There’s so much junk that it takes a while just to set up a game. Roll for Warlord Trait, roll psychic powers, roll terrain placement, roll to choose deployment, roll to see who goes first, roll to steal initiative. All that and you haven’t started playing yet.

          Once you are playing it doesn’t get much better. The game is painfully slow, with way too many random rolls like running, mysterious objectives, charge range, and power dice. The psychic phase is unnecessary poorly designed and (unless you’re running a psychic powerhouse list) doesn’t tend to accomplish much. The new dog fighting phase serves no purpose other than to lengthen the game and sell aircraft.

          Unit types are all over the place. Some robot pilots are monstrous creatures, some are vehicles. The reasoning behind this is arbitrary but the in game effect is massive. The points costs of all units are random ensuring that any attempt at a balanced game or scenario is doomed from the start.

          All of the above (and probably a few more things than I can remember) is why I believe that 7th Edition isn’t worth saving. I think it’s a bad core rule set that’s had awful codices and supplements piled on until the whole thing is just a heaping mound of garbage. A couple FAQs and Erratas just aren’t enough to make it palatable. Hence why I’d like a fresh start.

          • Muninwing

            i can see that.

            i’d rather take and make some decisions, fix some problems, and streamline what is… rather than starting over with a new version.

            7.5 rather than 8.

      • Lol, I’d rather have no new edition than a reset, the game as is works quite well, people just need to know what they are looking for and build lists to that end. I love playing fluffy games and campaigns, but if someone is getting ready for a tourney I’ll pull out a monster list for them to test against. The thing you need to make 40k work is communication

        • Bill Hicks

          amen!

    • The sorcerors are unmarked in this case, so that wouldn’t help. That said, people have been running sorcerors in fleshhounds (who are literally created to hunt psykers) since Daemonkin came out, it’s a beardy combo that isn’t fluffy, but it hardly puts them above the competition in terms of winning games. Eldar, SM, mechanicus, Necrons and arguably Tau are all bringing seriously weighted codexes to the table, so it’s understandable that chaos players want to keep up. That said, I’ll keep my pute khorne list any day over this

    • Skathrex

      Sorry to barge in here. I have been a long time Khorne player (since 3rd), and I know the “khorne hates magic” thing is very old, but is a common mistake to think that because of that, there would be no Sorcerers in Khorne dedicated armies.
      Khorne doesnt like magic, Khorne doesn’t like shooting, Khorne doesn’t like a lot of things, but that doesn’t mean that there will be no such things in Khorne armies.
      One of the more dedicated Khorne Legions (beside WE) are IW, which like shooting.
      Khorne will never give his blessing to a Sorcerer, but that doesn’t mean there can’t be sorcerers who like hand to hand combat and see Khorne as their god.
      This is not meant to defend the Armylist above, but I could Imagin something like Bloodpriest Sorcs fighting in an Khorne Army, and if they are cool conversions I dont mind it at all.

      The Tzeench vs. Khorne thing is something I never read about. Khorne vs. Slaanesh and Tzeench vs. Nurgle yes. And its obvious that the 2 Gods focused on Death and Destruction get along better then with a “Thinking God”.
      And heavens forbit, no one wants to imagine Nurgle and Slaanesh together.

      • I’ll let the thing about Iron warrior and khorne slip because that grinds my gears insanely. Just remember: Iron Warriors, like the night lords, are basically faithless. they do honor chaos, but they only worship their primarch. big, big difference. Even though nothing forbids it (I reread all codexes last night, the benefits of being sick and not being able to sleep), it seems wrong from a fluff point of view. which is how I play. I’m not saying it’s the only way or the best way, but it’s the one that seems the best to me, because it makes sense.

        As for Slaanesh and Nurgle together…meh. I’m sure any self respecting japanese porn anime producer can imagine something.

        • Skathrex

          lol, true about the second part^^

          What I meant in the first part was maybe badly written. I know that Alpha Legion, Iron Warriors and Night Lords don’t worship the Gods as a legion, and stay mostly true to their ways. What I meant was that you find the most Khorne Berzerkers in the ranks of the IW (again not counting WE) because it fits their style of war (i.e. sieges, and bloody trenches).
          I don’t usually play sorcerers in my Khorne army too, because I too see it as a rare thing. But I always liked the Idea of a Slaughterpriest calling to the Warp to make him stronger so he can better crush his enemys in Melee.
          In the same way I do like the Idea of Khorne Havocs enjoing the death they bring with their heavy weapons.
          I think to summarize it for:”Khorne does not care whose blood flows” extends for me to “Khrone does not care how the blood is shed”. I know Khorne would like to see everyone kill each other in Melee with Axes but War is War

          • ah. yep, I understand better what you meant, and I agree. Even though in which case, I’d probably just go with Iron Warriors with assault weapons and the mark of khorne, instead of IW berserkers. You also raise a valid point with the slaughterpriest.

            Well done, sir. 🙂

          • Skathrex

            Ruleswise, do whatever floats your boat, I like Berzerkers way to much…but on the other hand I like CSM too… I jsut wanna play some dudes in Servo-armor again…:(

            And a friendly discussion on Bols…I think i stepped threw the warp somewhere 😉

      • Muninwing

        direct conflicts:
        khorne vs slaanesh = hate/anger vs love
        tzeentch vs nurgle = hope vs despair

        indirect conflicts:
        khorne vs tzeentch = mind vs body (or fast vs slow)
        nurgle vs slaanesh = ugly vs pretty (or suffering vs enjoyment)

        khorne vs nurgle, and tzeentch vs slaanesh, are probably the ones that get along the best. even then, they are competing for ideological dominance.

        i miss the issues of mark conflict back in the day. having the more fanatical units aligning for common goals with their opposites always seemed like a cop-out to me.

        though it really should be far more pronounced in the daemon armies, where they are the embodiments of the conflicting concepts.

        • Skathrex

          Hmmm true, I never saw it that way (the god alignements).
          Mark conflict would certanly be cool, even though many Chaos players just play it that way. Has been a long time since I saw mixing of cults (except in Daemons).
          The thing is that Chaos Players are (in my experience) the players penalitzing themselves most with fluff. There may be a few oldschool Eldar players just playing their Aspect or some SM Players cutting a few Units. But Chaos players regularly ignore huge chunks of their Codex because of “fluff”. Most armies don’t even have a backround so deep, to be able to cut Units because of Fluff. So if they bring back Mark conflict Chaos needs a Bonus for single Mark only, and it has to be better than “Cult Unit becomse troops”

          And when it comes to Daemons, again just my opionion, they feel a bit like Sisters when played Mono-God. Just because you don’t have any choices.
          Khorne:
          3 HQs+3 Chars, 1 Elite, 1 Troop, 2 Fast Attack, 3 Heavy Support( one of which is HQ too)
          and its like that for all the Gods. So I don’t have a problem anymore with people mixing Gods. Not in Daemons, nor in CSM.

  • also…am I the only one to think “Iron Warrior Noise Marines” with the title pic ?

  • Frank O’Donnell

    This reminds me of the Mat Ward days, as everyone moaned about his codices but wanted him to do theirs, a few weeks back Goatboy was griping on about this deathstar & that deathstar & how dumb they where, but now that chaos can do a deathstar it fine.

    • He’s not endorsing the list, he’s analyzing it as a contender in the current environment. And his conclusion is that it has a lot of weaknesses and liabilities.

  • I’m using the Sorcerer Cabal, but fluffily since I play thematic armies and not in tournaments. If you’re depending on their special power, it can be tough to use against Imperial Guard tank armies and Imperial Knights.

  • Bill Hicks

    very cool list thx for sharing 🙂 I thought this might be an interesting alternative, would be cool to hear your thoughts:

    1850 Pts – Supplement: Black Legion Roster

    Total Roster Cost: 1850

    |CABAL
    HQ: Sorcerer
    1 Sorcerer, + Increase Mastery Level x2 + Spell Familiar + Veterans of the Long War ) + Chaos Bike

    1 Sorcerer, + Increase Mastery Level x2 + Spell Familiar + Veterans of the Long War + Chaos Bike

    1 Sorcerer, + Increase Mastery Level x2 + Spell Familiar + Veterans of the Long War + Chaos Bike

    Formation: Murderhorde

    1 Herald of Khorne + Exalted Locus of Wrath

    1 Blood Throne of Khorne

    5 Flesh Hounds of Khorne
    5 Flesh Hounds of Khorne
    5 Flesh Hounds of Khorne
    5 Flesh Hounds of Khorne
    5 Flesh Hounds of Khorne
    5 Flesh Hounds of Khorne
    5 Flesh Hounds of Khorne
    5 Flesh Hounds of Khorne

    : Combined Arms Detachment

    1 Herald of Tzeentch + Psyker Mastery Level 2

    3 Nurglings

    1 Herald of Tzeentch + Psyker Mastery Level 2

    3 Screamers of Tzeentch

    3 Nurglings

    1 Kairos Fateweaver (WARLORD)

  • sethmo

    This list has flaws. Maybe take the spell familiars as well and drop the black mace.

    Anything with stomp or anti psykers are going to smash this. Spawn with mark of nurgle will work better than the dogs, and a chaos lord is better than that herald.

    The daemon cad is also meh with nurglings….

    If you really want to beat face maybe swap the daemons with a kdk decurian and a D thirster. You get more reliable summoning plus the deathstar, and msu to boot.

  • Shiwan8

    The problem: All thd opponent has to do is kill the rest of the army to win. That’s one turn for tau and 2 turns for eldar and marines. That is it. GG.

  • Christie Bryden

    and once again another so called chaos list using as little CSM as possible.