40K: Daemon Primarchs & New Edition

magnus-horzOne of the industry’s best rumormongers is talking all about where 40K is headed.

Bols-Rumors-avatar

We’ve been hearing since the beginning of the year that a new edition of 40K is coming.  Some say it’s arriving in Fall, while others say it is still far off.  It has been a long while since 40K has  seen any existing codexes updated (November 2015 with Codex Tau). Over the last 2 months, GW has been issuing the slow but steady drip drip drip of weekly draft FAQs as they move through their entire ruleset.

You can see that something is up and there is a destination out there that all these things point towards.

SadPanda chimes in his take on what is occurring:

In response to this quaestion:

“Thousand Sons only need one boss man. Ahriman is finecast. Magnus will be plastic.”

He then went onto say went on to say:

You’ll have a plastic Ahriman before you’ll have a plastic Magnus. Probably painted in red though.

…As I was told (though it might be nonsense), the earliest sessions to start work on a new edition led to the decision to not update (for the most part) the Tau Codex and no longer re-do older books. Apparently they actually had more thorough rule-changes for the Tau, scrapped them, but still printed loads of not-new Tau Codex books because the printers were already booked, leading to the hybrid old/new Codex that is the Tau book.

But they are definitely working on a new edition. It just won’t be released in 2016, not least (as I heard) because they want to move the story and need time for that.”

Reading the Tea Leaves

So that is a lot to unpack.  Let’s pick this apart a bit

  • A new edition is coming, but SadPanda says it’s not this year.
  • GW is intending to movet he 40K storyline forward
  • They does not want to update existing codices for a bit and only updated the Tau due to a contractual issue with a printer
  • A plastic Ahriman is in the works and possibely a plastic Magnus

You can see how this lines up with a lot of the older rumors that have been out there for some time.  There has been talk of a “Tzeentch theme” with many new minis coming later this year and we have the unfinished business of the Warzone Fenris campaign that has been left hanging for 4 months so far.  Then we have the following talk from last month when word of plastic Daemon Primarchs first arrived:

Previous Rumors

via Mauler 6-9-2016 (DISQUS)

 “I bumped into an old mate last night who had a chap with him who I’d not met before. He said that he knew people working at GW, said that they were working on Warzone: Fenris pt2 at the moment and showed me two grainy photos.

I assume that the delay in pt2 is down to the models involved as one pic was of Thousand Sons in ornate armour that I’d not seen before and the other pic was of a daemonic Magnus. Hard to make out details on him from memory but there was a fair bit of blue & red on him and I vaguely remember something like blue pinions outstretched from his back but I’m not sure if they were wings. Clearly a departure from a Primarch Magnus from FW.

And a plastic Magnus from GW was the last thing I expected to see. It looked legit, but I don’t know the chap, so…”

So we have Forge World cranking out thier own set of pre-heresy Primarchs, but this model description sounds like a Daemonic version of Magnus the Red. for Reference, here is the ancient Daemonic Magnus miniature from EPIC:

magnus-the-red-EPIC

Daemonic Magnus, EPIC, Circa : 1995

It is also possibly a case of mis-identification.Remember very reliable rumormongers have been saying fro months the plastic Lord of Changethat is said to be coming later this year.

Lordofchange

 

Squiggly on Disqus:

There is an element of truth to this one.. The FW and GW studio’s were considering doing the Daemon Primarchs in plastic rather than resin, purely because of the nature of plastic. But I don’t think/didn’t know anything this was far done if this is accurate.

I’m not saying this is right/wrong. I heard we might get plastic ones, but no details on when, or even if, we will see them. Tbh if we were going to see any of them soon, I presumed it would be Angron. Considering he’s meant to be getting rules in one of the planned FW books.

I really hope we do see Magnussoon though.

~ As with all of these type of rumors, the important thing isn’t the details but the direction. And it’s looking more everyday like 8th Edition is coming and some Chaos characters and Primarchs are coming with it.  It’s only a matter of WHEN.

 

  • Daniel Sims

    “GW is intending to move the 40K storyline forward”

    Is………….is this real?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

    • Commissar Molotov

      Yes, but you won’t like how they do it…

      • DeadlyYellow

        Compared to the AoS we got, Bubbles had so much more potential.

        Unless this is more of a “ripples” meaning.

    • zeek203

      Yes, but that may not be a good thing. look at poor warhammer fantasy..apparently for GW, moving the storyline forward is the same as ending it.

      • cudgel

        I would rather have a potentially bad change then it be forever stagnant.

      • Anggul

        Totally different. Fantasy was a dying game that wasn’t making money and needed to be changed from a financial point of view. 40k is popular and makes loads of money.

        • zeek203

          And hence the 40k fluff doesn’t need to change.

          • Anggul

            I agree entirely. 40k is not an ongoing story, it isn’t a series of books or films. The Horus Heresy sort of is but even that’s just a prequel and we know how it ends. 40k is a setting, a background for us to put our dudes and armies into. There’s no need for it to move forward when we have thousands of years of an entire galaxy to fill in.

    • usGrant7977

      They’ll move the plot line as usual. All xenos races will be weirdly involved in plot lines that don’t involve them. There will then be a massive Pyric victory for the IoM. They will stop chaos from taking the 10th of 10 targeted systems, but not the 9 others. Also, no less than 10,000 space marines will die in the process.

      • euansmith

        I heard it was ten hundred thousand million billion dead space marines; but not of the ones with names, they all survive, but the poor Red Shirts Chapter takes an absolute pounding.

        • georgelabour

          Like the red cuirassiers, Crimson Crushers, and Scions of Matthews?

      • The_Illusionist

        There’s supposed to be 1,000 Chapters of roughly 1,000 Marines each, on average. That’s 1million Space Marines – purging all Chaos and Xenos influence from the galaxy with a 1% casualty rate actually seems pretty well worth it…..

    • TheTraitor

      oh yes we move forward the story but anyways everithing it’s gonna happen won’t be real, it was Tzeench playing tricks with your mind..can’t you see?

    • Loki Nahat

      what story? 40k is a setting, not a story to move on to a new chapter, it’s not changed in the 22-23 years I’ve been following it, I can’t imagine that they would be stupid enough to muck it up at the start of a massive recession

    • Timotheus

      Considering GWs fluff-writing, game and miniature design and artworks of the recent years I am almost sure that this is definitely not a good thing and I for one prepare to see my beloved 40k die like Warhammer Fantasy did.

    • CatachanCommissar

      40k is not a story, it’s a setting (which can’t be said enough), please don’t ruin the setting for “my guys” GW.

  • Anonymous

    GW is moving the plot to 42?

    “Pinch me Jefferson”

    • Dan Wilson

      I guess when the warp is involved anything can happen… time travel shenanigans!

      • BT

        That would actually be the smart play IMO. I have always been a fan of having lost pre-heresy ships full of marines arrive in modern times as a plot hook. You can also have the opposite, and have someone go back and warn the Emperor and you can just totally change everything.

        In fact, how cool would it be if the roles then reversed and the now forewarned Emperor reigns in all the Primarchs that would have turned to Chaos, but he is so focused on them that the ones who would have been loyal end up being corrupted by Chaos. Say you have Sanguinous killing Horus on the Battle Barge and Sanguinous taking on Horus’s role, wounding the Emperor? Death Company and the Black Rage would have a whole new meaning. Now that would be a story and re-telling I would love to see.

        • Tim Kennedy

          you should check out the Dornian Heresy for a well put together alt heresy

        • life of adept brian

          Ummm – warn the Emperor? You should probably read/listen to The Outcast Dead… Umm… yeah, you should check that story out. I’ll just leave it there.

  • Christie Bryden

    if they move the story forward AND FINALY give Legions a focus, it dosnt matter to me if its thousand sons (just the iceing on the cake) but legions…. LEGIONS FINALY CHAOS MIGHT NOT SUCK, IT MIGHT FINALY BE AWESOME AGAIN…. LEGIONS!

    • Shiwan8

      Chaos marines might actually be chaos marines again instead of sad excuses they are now.

  • Ooooh, I was gonna start a Chaos army after my Genestealer cult, but couldn’t decide which God to throw my lot in with. Thousand Sons was a great book and they would make for great “pew pew” times with my Space Wolves. A Daemon Primarch and new KoS could be the tipping point… but plague zombies T-T

    • Shiwan8

      Why would you want to play an army that is roughly worth half of the points it costs compared to loyalists and other top tier armies?

      • ZeeLobby

        To suffer!

        • Shiwan8

          Somehow stuffing a pineapple in my rear makes more sense to me than to start a CSM army now and I’m not in to that kind of stuff, not even the vanilla kind.

          • Don’t think there’s gonna be much room for a pineapple with that stick up your butt 😛

            Let me get you some water for that sick burn.

          • Shiwan8

            Yes, some internet mook unknown to me makes a futile attempt of slapstick insult, I must be genuinely hurting now. The sweet remedy of that water you brought, you sir are a savior of sorts.

            I applaud to your superior intellect. Bravo! Thank you for this display of that simply stupendous talent of yours.

          • Skathrex

            You have to admit, it was a good one.

          • Shiwan8

            I seem to have higher expectations than you. It was on the “pull my finger” level. If that is “good” to you then sure, in that context it was good.

          • Now now, don’t be sore.

          • Shiwan8

            One of us is repeatedly trying to insult the other person. Logical assumption would be to assume that this person is the one who is emotionally hurt. You are merely projecting. 🙂

          • Better run this through the sarcasm detector… great all clean. It takes a big man to admit defeat, I salute you sir, and have nothing but the greatest of respect for you.

          • Shiwan8

            Oh, you are talking to yourself. Now that explains things.

          • Josh Felstead

            I think he is, as one might say, butthurt

      • Some of us play 40k just for giggles, I kid you not! Then we move on with our lives.

        • Shiwan8

          I played in the sandpit back when I was 6 or so. It’s been decades. Tell me, how does it work for you, not getting past the kindergarten level?

          • set250

            Wow, you play warhammer for fun, huh i guess i should try and play something other than csm and try this “fun” you are talking about.

          • Shiwan8

            Try it. Not automatically losing every game is pretty refreshing. The thing is that every army with paper codex has a fighting chance, if not against something else then at least CSM can be beaten.

          • It can be more for the experience of getting together with pals, assembling models, painting, converting etc, setting up a fun game of toy soldiers, and not about building a kickass army list that ends the game before it starts.

          • Shiwan8

            It can be. GW thinks it is. In reality that does not really happen pretty much ever.

          • Then why do you play?

          • Jacob

            Does it include Steam Achievements?

          • Shiwan8

            Might be if it’s L4D2.

    • Jacob

      It’s all about Malal; Ive spent 25-years waiting for the fifth chaos god to return to his brothers…

  • Talos2

    Never heard of this guy.

    • Lord Elpus

      Which one??

      • Talos2

        I’d only noticed sadpanda. But any of them (apart from vela)

    • Sputnikwriter

      Larry Vela

  • Kritarion

    No updated codices for a while?

    …Have they officially forgotten about Sisters?

    • Kevin Maloney

      Short answer: yes.
      Long answer: yes. (*Cries quietly to self.*)

      • Kritarion

        Let us weep together

    • Talos2

      Who?

    • Shiwan8

      Eh? Sisters have comparably new dex….well, newER than some other armies.

  • piglette

    Am I I the only one who doesn’t want the “plot” to move forward? It’s a setting not a story. It’s a sandbox of perpetual war on the brink of disaster to tell heroic stories in. If you are tired of it, try a different IP for a while.

    • Randy Randalman

      They aren’t going to AoS it, because 40k isn’t a dead game like WHFB was. 40k isn’t just a poor man’s Tolkien/D&D ripoff; in fact, even people who don’t play the table top game enjoy the 40k setting in some way, and it has been established as it’s own.

      They are just moving ever closer to midnight. More grim, more dark, less hope. Therefore, more room for epic conflict and heroism.

      • vlad78

        Once again, WFB wasn’t a dead game. please stop repeating GW propaganda.
        If WFB had had the same support GW gave to AOS those last 2 years with decent prices, it would be selling like hot cakes.

        • Wa Bell

          WFB was dead in that GW could not control ALL of the IP from top to bottom. With AOS, they now can. Unfortunately for GW, you have to get over the hurdle of explaining to potential customers what AOS is, and that if they liked Elves, they will like Sylvaneth as well.

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah. It’s sad that IP protection is what killed the old world…

          • vlad78

            Again it’s no true. Do you really think intellectual property laws can stop someone from selling a sorceress on top of a giant beetle? Or automated golden armors or treemen? Think again.

            GW replaced common fantasy stereotypes by more fantasy stereotypes but with less quality writing.

            BTW there’re no wood elves in the new magic of life armies. Just green things.

          • Wa Bell

            Well, I understand what you are saying, but I disagree. Given the lead-time necessary to bring new products to market, we are seeing possibly 2yr old ideas today, and 2yrs ago was the heyday of GW lawyers and the IP Wars©. In all likelihood it was a combination of a stagnant product line and the desire to more tightly control the IP and market-share that brought us AOS. I wonder how many years it will take to build back to even half of the WFB market.

        • ZeeLobby

          THIS. 100 X this. WFB was getting updates once every 4/5 months before end times compared to the monthly 40K updates. Add on top of this all the cool stuff (mini campaigns, board games, mini factions, etc.) That 40K enjoyed while WFB stagnated.

          • georgelabour

            Between the release of the last edition of space Hulke, and the end times series of books just what 40k board game were released?

            How about after Dreadfleet, or even the last edition of Blood Bowl?

          • ZeeLobby

            LoL. Way to cherrypick. Dreadfleet didn’t lead into fantasy at all. At least the minis weren’t interchangeable. And blood bowl is still popular, but again, it doesnt integrate with WFB either. Before fantasy died there were already rumors of 30K and even a Deathwatch game incoming. That’s ignoring the mini faction and 3 book campaigns you chose to ignore.

          • georgelabour

            Please answer the questions.

          • ZeeLobby

            Well I answered the second, and there were none for the first. So as I said above if you ignore everything else in my post you’ve won like a pat on the back from yourself? It’s quite clear that there were many more of all 3 of those I posted for 40K were planned releases for the future, even back during endtimes. Outside of end times WFB had no support to make it any more interesting, and endtimes sole purpose was just to kill it.

          • georgelabour

            That’s a lot of words just to say you made that part up, or just didn’t know.

            Now onto the next claim.

            Between the end of the Medusa V campaign and the release of End Times: Nagash what mini campaigns for 40k did GW release?

            The various Apocalypse supplements were not campaign books, nor was Altar of war, the codices, or rules expansions such as Apocalypse,and Escalation.

            That leaves crusade of fire. and maybe planetary empires. However the latter is decidedly not a ‘mini-campaign’ by most stretches of the imagination. Especially if one applies the same logic you used to dismiss Dreadfleet and Blood Bowl.

            In comparison end times was itself Five books, numerous new models, and a collection of novels.

            Onto the next one of your claims.

            It’s really the only one that has any facts to back it up. We have Assassins, Legion of the Damned, and inquisition as small supplemental Ebooks to tack onto existing army construction. Later the first sub-factions in hardcover form would emerge with the release of Harlequins.

            In comparison GW did little up until End Times. However each book included new army lists and units letting you build your forces in entirely new ways from multiple sources. Hardly comparable but it was done.

            it also received far better model and game support thant the 40k Ebook mini-dexes.

            So going back off your original complaint it seems that you’ve managed to get one of four things correct in your rush to post yet another bit of pointless vitriol aimed at a producer you claim to have lost interested in. And even that one is arguably inaccurate.

          • set250

            How are you saying warhammer fantasy had gotten more treatment than 40k? Which game had 2 editions in the span of 2 years?

          • georgelabour

            I said nothing about who got more than this or that.

            A habitual whiner with a tendency to outright falsehoods made a mostly untrue claim. They were asked to prove it, and facts were used to show where they’d been in error. That the response is little more than petulance and an attempt to dodge the original topic shows that the one being confronted was more interested in impotent whinging than in an honest and useful comment. They even admitted to saying things they knew were false just so they could whine about it.

            Nor did I say the game changed from the ground up. Please do not put words in my mouth.

          • set250

            But… you did say it changed from the ground up when constructing and army (It really didn’t), (paragraph 9), they also did give you proof. Stop using these large paragraphs to hide that you are actually saying nothing.

          • georgelabour

            I wrote.

            “In comparison GW did little up until End Times. However each book
            included new army lists and units letting you build your forces in
            entirely new ways from multiple sources. Hardly comparable but it was
            done.”
            ——
            No where did I say it changed the game from the ground up. All I said was it altered army construction.

            So again, please stop putting words into my mouth.

            And again all I refuted were the outright lies and half truths of someone whose post history is primarily naught but drama filled
            whining. If you wish to back the original claims then I implore you to apply some facts to the matter rather than compounding the original issue by uttering your own utter falsehoods.

          • set250

            … u did say that, you even quoted it and i don’t think you know what you are saying.

          • georgelabour

            So I didn’t say I said what I said because what I said was actually something you said I said……despite repeated statements clarifying exactly what I said…

            Judging from other comments on this thread you seem to have an agenda aimed at being upset when I say anything so I’m just going to leave this be.

    • nurglitch

      You’re not the only one. it’s kind of interesting to see how this is reflected in the background where the Thousand Sons believe in perfect knowledge, while the Space Wolves and White Scars believe that some knowledge should be beyond our ken. I personally prefer the setting to keep some mystery after the move to a third person omniscient view in 5th, and the Horus Heresy in 6th. The setting has so much room for people to play in, and so much to play with it is a little disappointing that some people see it as a story or plot.

    • PrimoFederalist

      Agree 100%. Others just don’t get it. You remove the mystery and ambiguity it diminishes it. It’s just another setting at that point.

    • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

      agree. They mess with the setting at their peril. GW have hardly shown an adept touch at plot advances. Could be a disaster. Also seems unnecessary.

    • ZeeLobby

      Gotta agree. It’s not something I ever wanted. I just wanted a better game that I could play in the 40K setting, not a new setting.

    • Admiral Raptor

      For me 40k has always been the story of the Emperor, his Primarchs, and their sons. It’s a great story with a 10,000 year history that is building to a climax. It’s been hanging on that precipice for close to thirty years. It’s time for the clock to strike midnight and final battles to begin. There’s so many interesting possibilities. The return of the Primarchs, a second Imperial civil war, The birth of the Eldar god of the dead, the fall of Cadia, and a ton more I can’t even remember.

      • PrimoFederalist

        And then what? It’s over after that: it’s either the beginning of the end of everything or the functional destruction of the threat. How do you not see that? Frodo either destroys the Ring or he doesn’t: there are winners and losers either way, but it’s over after that. There’s no good way to advance the story without diminishing the threat or killing off the forces of “order”. It is extremely short-sighted to demand a universe-altering resolution just so we can all see what’s “next”. The genius of 40k is that it is a setting: thus the reason they have that amazing intro into every book they publish. They’re introducing the setting, not the plot of a story.

        • georgelabour

          Actually there are another couple of chapters after he destroys the ring. Including at least one more massive fight for freedom.

          Some even consider them the most important part of the entire epic.

          • set250

            Well i haven’t read lotr, OMG, but i never hear anyone say anything about that epic “fight for freedom” after he destroys the ring, nor do i see a movie about it.

          • georgelabour

            Not really. I was referring to the fact the book doesn’t end with the ring’s destruction.

            That some people are only familiar with a topic through a big budget movie and or don’t care for ‘sad endings’ is fairly ancillary to the point.

          • PrimoFederalist

            Right. And then the book ends. Is that point lost on you?

          • set250

            Idk, this guy keeps posting stuff on here with claims that show he completely misses the point and tries to act like he is right when his conclusion and evidence are not for the right discussion. “yea, let us kill a setting because books do it” Huh, maybe wizards of the coast should try that, i bet it will work wonders and bring in a flock of new players.

          • georgelabour

            WOTC has ‘blown up’ settings multiple times in order to reset them for new editions. Most of the time this is done merely to explain away shifts in the setting so they can conform to the rules of a new game, or expansion.

            If one pays attention to some of the blurbs written on their most popular game you’ll find world destructions and sudden alterations to extant material are quite common.

            That makes that company a very poor example when trying to defend keeping the 40k setting stagnant in order to preserve the game.

            However I never once said it should be done for the sake of being done. I merely pointed out that the climatic event put forth as an example is not the end. It is instead merely the start of the next arc.

            So please try not to put words in my mouth in your rush to fail at assigning motive to a stranger.

          • georgelabour

            Your point was after the massive upheaval of a setting altering event there’s little to be done with the setting.

            However your example shows that to be false. Not only was there an aftermath to the climatic portion you cite as an example but it adds a certain impact to an otherwise cliched happy ending.

            While unlikely there could be something done with the aftermath of the Imperium being defeated. Certainly the ‘backstory’ of 40k, such as it is, shows humanity has survived galaxy shattering calamity at least once or twice.

            Certainly other settings have done this before. Battletech is an example of not just one but multiple massive calamities acting as a reset button or cleanser of stagnant elements.

            With all that said I do somewhat agree with the notion that the setting for the game should remain somewhat stagnant. Though a big fan of battletech and the way it advances its plot I feel the same thing would not translate well into the game of 40k.

          • PrimoFederalist

            You’re using a terrible example… which is illustrating my point. There is no high drama in LOTR after the climax. The Scourging of the Shire, i.e. veterans returning home to find their country changed? It’s great stuff, but it’s not “5-to-midnight” tension – it’s “10-after-midnight” and we’re winding down of the story. There are plot resolutions and an ending, followed by the appendices which either present brief histories of the back story or minor adventures after the destruction of the Ring and a peaceful hegemony of Men. There is nothing but minor, inconsequential adventures and border skirmishes because the great threat/ultimate evil was destroyed. Advancing the story for the sake of advancing the story (i.e. now it’s *two minutes* to midnight!!!) is really, really cheap and immature. All for show, no substance. It’s the tabletop wargame equipment of Star Wars Episodes I-III.

            Battletech’s Dark Age advancement ruined the game. Everyone hated it. Prior to that, the minor timeline advancements in Battletech were possible because they didn’t set a hard stop like GW did with the 40k setting: either the Imperium is on the edge of collapse with multiple existential threats closing in or it’s not and all the building up story so far is total BS.

            P.S. I’m pretty sure, based on your consistent, down-the-line defending of GW (which I don’t mind and typically agree), they are in fact planning to advance the storyline, otherwise you wouldn’t be so invested in proactively defending the decision.

          • georgelabour

            Actually I didn’t hate Dark Age. While I didn’t care for it when it first occurred but now that Cayalyst has had time to work on it a lot I’m rather fond of it and wish they’d get on with releasing the next arc for it. I’ve even seen die hard anti clicky grumps enjoying it once they get a taste of the new toys.

            And again I do not think advancing the 40k story would be a good idea. The community alone is just flexible enough to handle it the way Battletech fans did events like The game itself also lacks flexibility in regards to force selection that would not mesh well with sweeping changes to core factions.

            However again this is more due to the game and its players than a lack of fluidity in the setting itself. I think Black Library could pull off a post emperor setting quite well if given the freedom to do so.

          • PrimoFederalist

            Fair enough to all your points (especially the players not being able to cope [case in point: me, haha]). Although I disagree about BL: ten years ago, yes, they could have pulled it off. But now I get the district impression many of the writers are largely ignorant of the body of fluff and the editors are not the jealous guardians of their lore as they should be nor are they even capable stewards. They’ve already had lots of timeline issues in Horus Heresy.

            And I hate to be a downer as I’m a big fan of GW, but the quality of the writing has devolved to action-packed fan-fiction than the grimdark vignettes which launched and sustained 40k. Just in CotW, I read the vignette in which Harald Deathwolf’s Great Company defeated a daemon invasion of a Hive World. Haha, it took the entire Space Wolves chapter and the entirety of the Grey Knights to save Armageddon, but now a couple hundred Space Marines can secure a world of hundreds of billions in hours. There is still plenty of great stuff produced buy BL, but most writers no longer have any idea what they’re talking about.

          • georgelabour

            To be fair on that part from COTW it does mention several times they didn’t defeat the entirety of the horde. Instead there’s two or three cases where it’s said both from 3rd person and in character statements they’ve merely broken it in a way that gives local forces a fighting chance. I’d have to go back and double check but I do think they mention leaving the planet behind before all the fighting has even ended as they had better things to do.

            Also, no angron and a dozen blood thirsters.

            But yes the consistency of things like that can be a bit grating at times. That’s why I tend to try and separate BL fiction from game fiction as the two have very different purposes. Game fiction tends to play up a certain group while also being limited to a mere few paragraphs to do this in. Whereas a novel gets to fill page upon page with narrative.

            Just look at the IG novels where even the grunt troopers tend to be fairly BA folks and their depiction in their own codex as fairly disposable fodder. Or..Commisar Cain compared to codex commisars.

            Now with all that being said I don’t want to veer away from the original topic further so I shall abstain from further contrariness. Though I do await your reply to my final thoughts. 🙂

          • PrimoFederalist

            It’s a very good and valid point: “game fiction” vs universe fiction with the latter being substantially better. Still, I honestly think the game fiction has become quite terrible. Many moons ago, back when I had time, I consumed tons of GW fluff – like back when the White Dwarfs had all those Index Astartes articles every month. It was great. The poignancy of the tales of the primarchs was great: they made the “bad guys” sympathetic and made every legion look like BAs. Did you ever read the Mordheim book? Running throughout it, along with all the other vignettes, was a story arch which told a tale through little snip-its of a Witch Hunter obsessively hunting the trail of a necromancer: he eventually kills him, takes a look at his grimoire, and in time becomes a corrupted necromancer himself. Really great stuff.

            Now whenever I pick through the newer books it’s really, really bad. Total lack of time-and-space constraints: a single Cadian regiment against a Hive Fleet in Shield of Baal, a massive Imperial Guard invasion force being crushed by the Tau in every battle but suddenly taking over the entire planet in a week or so, the Adeptus Mechanics setting an *entire* nebula on fire – how fast does the writer think fire can travel?, the daemon invasion of the Hive World example. No understanding of story telling, instead focusing on descriptions of action/fighting (that’s probably the key to the problem). I realize 40k is a Science Fantasy universe, but the writers no longer pay any homage at all to the “Science” part of it and I would argue – the Warp notwithstanding – there was lots of emphasis on the “Science” of it all which played into the suspension of disbelief. Now the “perpetuals” have corrupted the Horus Heresy storyline – they can be melted into a pool of liquid by daemonfire or teleport into high orbit then plummet in a ball of fire onto a planet and come back to life. It’s just dumb. And they made Ollianus Pius, patron saint of the Imperial Guard, a freaking perpetual!!! Heresy! Brave little Ollianus has had his character bastardized into the BS highlander crap (but even Highlander had sensible rules – you get your head chopped off you died).

            Anyway, the recent Tau/IG/WS/RG campaign is a good example of the vapidity. It’s page after page of the Tau killing the sh!t out of the Imperials, then all the sudden the Imperials have taken over the entire planet and pushed the Tau back into one final city. Uh, what? It’s not hard to write something like that well: just look at how GW worked the Armageddon book or the Eye of Terror book. Action packed throughout but the focus was on the *narrative* of what was happened, not dozens of pages of descriptions of individuals fighting. Same with CotW.

            I could go on, but you get the idea. To bring this all back around: it is due to this lack of stewardship of the lore (which made the game so special) which makes me so strongly opposed to advancing the storyline. The guys who “get it” aren’t there to oversee such a project. We’ll get several books which are nothing more than intense, poorly written action sequences stapled into a rough timeline of events. BL does good work and has many great writers, but given the trajectory of things lately I dread placing the entire 40k universe in the hands of those who gave us Shield of Baal, the Tau campaign, and CotW.

            Anyway, it’s been a pleasure virtually chatting. Take care 🙂

    • CatachanCommissar

      YAAAAAAASS KWEEN

  • manouel35

    OMG !!!!!!!!
    i need to sell my tyranids …. before this update…

  • Shiwan8

    Ok. So, ebay and amazon will be flooded with obsolete armies like CSM and nids. Sadly thereare no customers for thosewho are selling.

    • Wa Bell

      In my experience, the only people who buy more Chaos are existing Chaos players who need more little men to build alternate forces. Oh, and newbs who don’t have a clue, but they drop it as soon as they see Loyalists curb-stomping someone.

      • Shiwan8

        I agree. It is likely that those starter boxes will sell seemingly regularly but it’s just stupid to claim that the rest of the line would have some significant demand.

      • Admiral Raptor

        As an existing chaos player I can say with certainty that you are 100% correct.

  • SilentPony

    They’ll never do 40k scale plastic demon primarchs. Someone probably saw a new plastic Changer of Ways, then later heard FW was working on Thousand Sons, and just assumed the two were connected.
    Think about it, nothing will come from the Fenris campaign they have going on. They’re not gonna’ kill of the Wolves, or blow up Fenris, or kill off all the characters with fancy new models. A Deus Ex Bad Writing will happen, things will go back to normal until I dunno, the Dark Eldar invade…Herexies VI, just in time for their new models to fight the new Tryanid models.
    This is GW we’re talking about. and 40k isn’t a story, its a setting.

    • Loki Nahat

      “Deus Ex Bad Writing”, I like that

  • PrimoFederalist

    Ugh, they have 10,000 years of campaigns and story lines they could explore but instead they’re moving it forward. Weak sauce.

    • Dan Wilson

      Really they only have 1000 years for 40K.

      • PrimoFederalist

        I’m not sure if you’re making a joke or not. If not: since the Imperium has stagnated, you can plug-and-play at any point from approximately 31k – 40k. There are many major events (the Scouring, Age of Apostasy, Reign of Blood, Plague of Unbelief, Macharian Crusade) and innumerable minor events the mind can dream up. These could all see campaign supplements, new models and characters, Black Library support… you name it. It would be awesome to see them flesh out some of these events and give us new rules, models, and sub factions without nuking the universe.

    • Wa Bell

      Here here! I’d rather they start into the Scouring after FW wraps up the Heresy.

      • PrimoFederalist

        Yes, the Scouring would be awesome. And most of the Primarchs could still be used: some of the traitor primarchs would be daemons already, some would still be Astartes (I believe Perturabo earned daemonhood during the Scouring, in fact). You could introduce models and rules for the new chapter masters for the 2nd Founding chapters and those 1st Founding who lost their primarch. All with 40k rules – just need models and campaign supplements. Could throw in resurgent xenos as well.

  • Laurence J Sinclair

    Possibly Magnus will just be the character option available as a conversion in the plastic Lord of Change kit? Alternate head and such?

  • Alienerd the unbannable

    Any rumour which starts along the lines of “I had a mate who knew a chap who knew people” just doesn’t sound believable. If you are going to give someone information which you want to be taken seriously, don’t start it with that.

  • pokemastercube .

    i think the only reason GW is trying to do fluff stuff is to get ppl back to had jumped over to FW

  • Karru

    I have a feeling that they will move the system forward in the same manner as they did with the Eye of Terror book. It will be something along the lines “The Imperium of Man is failing, last line of defence by Space Marines, Inquisition and Astra Militarum is at hand and it’s crumbling in the wake of Abaddon’s might. Suddenly a flash of light appears as the Orbital Bombardment decimates chaos forces, Ultramarines have come! Calgar leads a mighty charge like against Abaddon and sees his lack of hands as he is armless, and wins the day. The Imperium stands victorious, but for how long…”

    If Games Workshop has any sense, they will not decimate the setting, like they did with WHFB. They might switch things around, make Space Wolves renegades to the Imperium or make Dark Angels more twisted. They won’t kill any of the major chapters or characters, but they will most likely make more excuses for Ultramarine centric stuff.

    The fact that they don’t want to write new books is concerning, since many of the pre-necron books are absolute garbage compared to the new ones that have “Decurion” detachments, yes they might be optional, but they do give an option for a clear advantage. There is also the problem with the main antagonists, CSM, being so utter garbage that they don’t even deserve to exist in the setting as a major threat they are supposed to be.

  • ya know what I would love? some kind of contract forcing them to update the Orks and Blood Angels into the modern codexes….

  • Admiral Raptor

    I like that they’re moving the story forward and releasing a new edition, but I wish it was coming out sooner. The thought of having at least another half a year with 7th ed. is awful.

    Good to see the story move forward. 40k has been pretty stale for a while and it’ll be nice if they can move the timeline to midnight. I’d love to see the Primarchs return (Daemon and otherwise), and maybe a second siege of Terra.

  • Painjunky

    The longer GW waits to update the old neglected dexes and unfork 40k the more customers will be lost and fewer sales made when they do finally pull their finger out.

  • James Smith

    Lets see… are we heading into the 42nd millennium? I wonder if we will see a likewise fluff trend with AOS e.g. in which Slaanesh with all his/her/its cronies are destroyed/censored from the universe?

    • James Smith

      Also perhaps we shall see a campaign story in which Sisters of Battle are tasked with saving the Imperium, they fail, are destroyed completely (no need for an update GW) and then primarch Jaghatai Khan emerges from the webway to save the day!

  • Michael Bradbury

    “showed me two grainy photos”

    Funny, they always seem to be blurred or grainy don’t they!

  • Randy Randalman

    So he says we’ll have a plastic Magnus, but then that we’ll have a plastic Ahriman instead/before Magnus.

  • John Bitondo

    I can see GW going in an ” Emperor Reborn” direction. With SM chapters declaring for the risen Emperor or fighting for the establishment High Lords of Terra.