Angel’s Blade: New Units Latest

blood-angel-chaplain

One gamer is talking all about the new Blood Angels unit rules. Take a look.

You will need to take a look at these rules in combination with the previous set from yesterday to get a better picture of what the Blood Angels are bringing. That said, an Entire Death Company detachment is very spicy!

Bols-Rumors-avatar

via B&C’s Master Avoghai 9-13-2016 

 

First the Upgrades:

Without any surprise,
– Assault squad receive the same entry as vanilla : no JP, buy either the jumpack or the transport or leave them on foot. Evicerator available
– Devastator : same thing, they have acces to cherubin and grav cannon.
– vindi and WW can be fielded as squadron with the same bonus
– same thing for turbo boos bonus for speeders
– access to domain from the new disciplines
pad-blood-angels

Then the News:

First a DC chaplain
allow to reroll the roll to wound for him and its uni when charging except in a disorderd charge
Then the Baal :
Fieldable in squadron and may re roll 1 to W when played in squadrons of 3
I have no access to relics  except the TH from Kraen wich becomes available to any BA character
Then you have 2 detachment or rather “super formations” “gladius” … whatever
The first is a standard one the second is more Death company
Gladius like detachment
bonus
– re roll of warlord trait
– l+1I when charging
– zealot if any squad come below 50%
… And… That’s all ! No free transport if 2 half company are played…

armor-blood-angels

The Formations:

Core :

Demi Companie
As a vanilla one except you can swap the command squad for a furioso
Special rules Reroll of the warlord trait and +1I when charging and … That’s all !!!! NO OBJECTIVE SECURED And it’s the same bonus as the whole formation… This is THE dark point IMO…
archangels demi companie
1 termi captain
2 furioso
4 units amongst termis assault termi vanguard sternguards
special rules :
Stubborn
Roll for reserve at Turn 1
Re roll scatter and roll only 1d6
Warlord trait re roll

HQ :

Leaders of the Angelic Host :
1 HQ
0-1 comman squad
0-1 Storm Raven
no special rules
Golden Host
Dante or Sanguinor
2-5 sanguinary guards units
Special rules :
No reserve roll you choose the turn they arrive and everybody arrive in DS
They can charge the turn they DS but count as disordered charge
Chapter ancients 
3-5 units of
Dreads
Dreads Furioso
Dreads Archi
special rules
1time per battle, you can choose to sacrify the movement phase of any dread to either make a free shoot or a free movement of contact and resolve CC A. You can then proceed normally to shoot or charge

Auxiliaries :

Archangels orbital intervention force
3 termi squads of any sort
Special rules :
MUST be kept in DS reserve
one single reserve roll
The termi may eithershoot twice (not necessarly at the same target) OR charge the turn they DS but this will count as disordered charge
10th company Ambush Force
3-5 units of scouts or scout bikes
Restrictions : bikes must have mines
Special rules :
As long as it doesn’t move a unit gain +1 cover (shrouded?)
Precision shot first turn
Death Company Strike Force
1 DC chaplain
3 DC squads
0-3 DC dreads
Special rules
Models within 12″ of the chaplain gain +1A
Lucifer Armoured strike force
techmarine
3-5 units of preds or Baal
1-3 units of LR of any sort
Special Rules
Scouts
Overloaded engines free
Storm Raven Squadron
2-4 Storm Raven
Special Rules : One time per battle, during your movement phase, declare you target an enemy unit. All the SR within 72″ of the target and with a LoS must shoo all their remaining stormstrike missiles on the target. This doesn’t count toward the number of weapons usable and the SR may use their weapons during the shooting phase as normal.
Rapid Assault Force
1-3 units
Assault squads
bike squads
attack bike squads
speeder squadrons
Special Rules : none it’s a “blank formation” usable only in the super detachment
Fire Support Force
1-3 units
devastator
WW
Vindi
Special rules : none it’s a “blank formation” usable only in the super detachment
Death_Company_Colour_Scheme2
And then Death Company Gladius
Bonus :
Re roll traits
+1I when charging expect if disordered charge
After Deploying the unit, it may make a 6″move. This is NOT a scout move
Core
Death Company Strike Force as described
HQ
Death Company Command
1-3 choices amongst Astorath, Lemartes or chapelain CdlM
Aux
Archangels Orbital Intervention force as described
10th company support as described
Lucifer Armoured squadron as described
Storm Raven squadron as described
Rapid Assault Force as descibed

~We will see how accurate this is on Saturday.  What do you think?

  • Holy carp I was only reading up to the Death Company Chaplain but… does anybody proofread these articles? So many missing letters, typos and what not. Doesn’t even your browser put red curls under misspelled words nowadays? Windows 10 does it by default, even.

    • It’s a copypasta from the original source posting…typos and all.

      • It’s lazy, is what it is. They could’ve just as easily credited the original poster while writing a proper article about it.

  • Well my battle company is staying on the shelf. Current battlecompany can get +I and obsec. Why would I bother with this garbage.

    Why Zealot? Could have at leat been preferred enemy so it could turn on while already in assault.

    A few of these formations are nice, but easily the worst Decurion in the game. Screwed BA once by not giving it to them but giving it to Me crony a month later. Screwed them again by basically deciding “we need to scale this back ALOT”

    Top this off with the missed opportunity to give devs heavy flames and assault squad troops.

    So I guess another 2 years at least before you get another chance.

    • Karru

      Both Chaos and Imperial Guard would like to have a word with you regarding who has the “worst” decurion in the game.

      Most of the BA formations don’t have close to useless “taxing” units, the bonuses aren’t meant to just give you a slight buff against certain faction or doesn’t cost 1000+pts without any upgrades. With Chaos we got an amaaaazing roll on the mostly useless Boon table for one of our characters per turn. We also got the VotLW for free, which gives us Hatred (Imperium). Our only “advantage” over your Core is the Ob. Sec. but BA has better options and are cheaper (cost effective) than the CSM has. Beyond that CSM is in a way worse situation. One of our formation, the Heldrakes, literally cannot use their Vector Strike bonus pretty much ever since Pinning an enemy unit before your Movement Phase is (nigh) impossible. We have 110pts tax on our vehicle formations and the Obliterator one. Our Raptors/Warp Talons don’t get any reduce in scatter nor any benefits in CC outside the minus LD, but once again this is mostly useless or extremely situational.

      Then there is the Guard “decurion” that has the option to either benefit from their detachment bonus and play an army that has no Special Weapons or not benefit from it and take at least 5 tanks. The Emperor’s Shield costs 1000+pts minimum with Scout Sentinels. Your heaviest weapons is the Multi-laser on the Sentinels. No Ob. Sec. for these guys either.

      So go ahead and tell me again how the BA decurion is the worst in the game when it’s not a copy/paste from SM formation giving you hundreds of free points to field. You still have more options and flexibility than Guard has with theirs and more killing power than the Chaos Warband. Grav, Drop Pods and Dreadnoughts are extremely effective I tend to find, compared to Possessed foot slogging across the board, Rhinos exploding before they even get to deliver their cargo half the distance or Lasguns against anything with Armour Value. Also the +1 Initiative on the charge is also effective against things like CSM, other SM or basically anything with Initiative 4 since you get to go first. Finally there is the Death Company formation that can get a turn 1 charge with Jump Packs. Deploy on the edge, move 6″, then jump 12″, boom near the opponents deployment zone. If that wasn’t enough, Drop Pod some Dreadnoughts to the back and see how fun it is for your opponent to deal with chargers coming from every direction.

      • Charon

        Turns out even the Lost and the damned can’t use their special rule as there is nothing in the formation that actually allows to outflank from ongoing reserve, they just gain the outflank USR and are put in ongoing reserve. And according to the BRB you can’t outflank from ongoing.

        • Nubu

          Amazing.

        • Parthis

          And a quick and inevitable FAQ will address this.

          As might 8th Ed.

          Point is, it’s intent is clear.

          • Charon

            Point is you can’t just assume the inten. People try this all the time and in a lot of cases the FAQ told them to with the rules as written.
            At the end of the day you can play how you see fit, my group plays as written and not as “assumed to add some more power”

          • Parthis

            I imagine your group is a rather frustrated group of gamers.

            ITC, et al will put clarifications out on this, tournaments will be fone and to be fair to GW their FAQs have actually clarified a ton of rule conflicts like this.

            Intent is clear, it’s not “to add more power”.

          • Charon

            I leave that to your imagination. I know… guilty of having bad wrong fun in the eyes of the internet authorities.
            Sticking to RAW helps mitigating cases where two people have different opinions on how the ruele is actually meant (see BB sharing transports, passengers and jinking vehicles,…).

            As usual we will wait for the FAQ. In the meantimes I stick to the actual rules and not whishlisting.

          • benn grimm

            I dont know about the intent, but the rules are pretty clear (for a change); cant outflank from ongoing reserves; thats stated pretty clearly in the BRB, not sure why a FAQ would be needed to address this?

          • Blight

            Where does it say that? Before the FAQ hinted that with the Tyranid FAQ I couldn’t find anything that specified it was any different from regular reserves unless it was from a deepstrike mishap or a flyer that flew off the board.
            As for intent it is incredibly clear and for the most part the FAQs went with RAI not RAW. The Tau decurion bonus being a big one. The fact that most of the ruling went the same way as ITC shows how far it went towards RAI.

          • Charon

            BRB: Outflank:

            When this unit arrives from Reserves, but not Ongoing Reserve, the controlling player rolls a D6: on a 1-2, the unit comes in from the table edge to the left of their controlling player’s own table edge; on a 3-4, they come on from the right; on a 5-6, the player can choose left or right. Models move onto the table as described for other Reserves.

          • benn grimm

            It’s under the rules entry for outflank, in the special rules section towards the back.

        • Orodruin

          Man, that deserves a slow clap and/or a facepalm. Well done, GeeDubs!

        • McGibs

          Oddly, the master of the horde repsawning infantry don’t actually go into ONGOING reserves, they just go into Reserves.
          Aside from this not really being a precedented thing (every other respawning mechanic like this uses ongoing reserves or just ‘move on from the table edge’), it means that the outflank does work (sort of, even though youd have to declare youre outflanking before the game starts… or something) but you have to make reserve rolls for when they come on the board.

          RAI seem pretty clear that they should be using ongoing reserves, and also be able to outflank from it. Derp forgeworld.

          • Charon

            Either FW was smarter or it was written for a previous edition because the FW rule actually works in a standard game while the GW rule does not.

            We are discussing the GW rule here that puts a unit in ongoing reserve and grants the outflank USR without allowing to outflank from ongoing as part of the rule.

          • Shawn

            Can someone clarify all this for me. I’m trying to follow this part of the comment thread. I can never learn enough about rule interactions, RAI/RAW, etc. From my understanding, it does seem stupid to give a unit outflank, if it can never outflank. Has anyone tried asking GW about this?

          • Charon

            Sure as soon as we found out. Still waiting for an answer.
            It also seems stupid to let the drake get D6 vector strike hits against a unit that is going to ground or pinned when a unit can have that status in your movement phase (when vector strike happens)
            You gtg or get pinned either because of shooting or a psi power. That happens in your Psi/shooting phase (so after vector strike), next turn he gets up again (automatically) so he is no longer pinned/gtg when your movement phase starts.

      • Matt Halkos

        I’d like to throw the ork decurion out there as one of the worst

      • Flan man

        I feel like your glossing over alot of weakness of the BA decurion and strengths of the chaos decurion. First having to take a Demi Battle company and getting NO BENEFITS is quite a substantial hit. Not to mention not having objective secured is a huge deal. Having to push a unit off an objective just to take it or having yours stolen by 3 models just because they do have ObSec hurts. We also have gotten 2 formations that have NO RULES just “take these units, get lost” I honestly cannot think of any other formation that doesn’t have any rules, just take these units. Some of the chaos formations are not great (helldrakes) but some of them are and the “tax” isnt a deal breaker. Getting to shoot lascannons AND plasma cannons in the same turn is great! You mentioned that your raptor/warp talons don’t reduce scatter but the formation as a whole is less than half as much as our Archangels Demi Battle Company! Our “tax” is a core formation that gets ZERO benefits. That is the heaviest “tax” in the game! Chaos will never get grav, or drop pods. That is something you have to come to terms with as a chaos player. We dont get marks, we dont cheep small MSU, we dont get vehicles with invuln saves and IWND (other than contemptors). When looking at the two I think the chaos decurion is stronger the fact that you do get ObSec on your core, and you get free points! BA dont get anything for free!

        • To be fair, a Gladius has some auxiliary choices with no benefits. That is common. Everything else is spot on and we get fewer formations than traitors hate overall I think.

          • Flan man

            Which ones don’t give any benefit?

        • Matt Halkos

          Both the core from the ork decurion basically give no benefits. And one of the core limits how large a squad size can be. Yes realistically this will be used mainly in larger games but overall they are pretty strong

          • Flan man

            When you say “basically give no benefits” what do you mean?

          • Karru

            The WAAAGH!-Band gives the exact same benefits as the Detachment. The difference here compared to BA for example is that you have to take 6 units of Boys, 1 Mek, 1 Warboss, 1 unit of Nobz or Meganobz and 1 unit of Grots. Even for Orks, that is quite a bit for a benefit that only works for large units.

            If you are not aware, first benefit is the Warlord Trait Re-roll, the second gives Hammer of Wrath for all unit that have more than 10 models in them and roll 10 or more for the Charge and finally they can WAAAGH! every turn, excluding the first.

            So tell me again how your BA formation with their Drop Pods, Grav, Heavy Flamers and all the other tools you have in your basic book are worse than this.

            The other option for Orks is the Goff Killmob that requires 1 Warboss, 1 unit of Nobz, 3 units of boys (at least 20 strong), 1 Gorkanaut, 2 Deff Dreads and 1 unit of Killa Kanz (at least 3 models). Bonus? Fear and Infantry can re-roll Charge distances. Clearly this one is much, much better than the BA one.

          • Flan man

            First I never claimed it was better than the Ork Detachment, so don’t try to put words in my mouth. No one here needs your condescending tone.
            Second I don’t know the Ork Detachment but I can say this about the BA, the benefits we get from our detachment we already get from Baal Strike Force Org so other than Zealot for units at under half strength, there is literally no reason to take the detachment.

          • Karru

            But the point here was who had THE WORST detachment. It’s clearly not BA.

          • Flan man

            I can say, no its not the worst. But it will still not be used. If no one is using the Ork Detachment AND no one is using the BA Detachment then really they are both bad.

          • Karru

            I do agree with that part, my entire argument was against Gothmogs original comment regarding BA detachment being the worst in the game “easily”. BA could’ve used a better formation for their normal marines. At least you got the Death Company formation which is nice and I am going to enjoy the heck out of fielding that Archangel Formation with my Ultramarines 1st Company.

          • This. I forgot about orks. Theirs is terrible too. But being marginally better than sewage still means you are crap.

        • Karru

          Would you like to know a little secret about the mega CSM book? Our CSM marine costs 13pts base. He has exact same equipment as your Tactical Marines have. He also has to take an Aspiring Champion each and every time you take a squad. He gets the Champion of Chaos rule as well, which forces him to commit suicide against strong melee characters.

          So what does a BA Tactical have then that makes him so much worse? For +1 point you get ATSKNF, Combat Squads and Furious Charge. Then we have those GLORIOUS Marks you spoke off, well guess what, we have to pay A LOT for them and get very little in return. Also, try to guess what our “free” stuff gives? +1 LD and Hatred (Imperium). How exactly is the Hatred going to help against everything not imperium? Also that thing costs around 1-3 points per model and CS can’t even use it!

          If by cheap MSU unit you mean our 40pts of Cultists that die just by you saying you are going to shoot at them and then compare them to Scouts that cost 55pts and have access to Camo Cloaks and Sniper Rifles (both of which I use on a regular basis to extreme effect), then we might have a huge disagreement in our hands. Scouts are superior to Cultists, for 15 pts more you get 5 models less, but you gain Infiltrate, Scout, Move Trough Cover, Furious Charge, Combat Squads and ATSKNF. Oh and a 4+ Save compared to the magnificent 6+ of the Cultists. If you attempted to refer to the same priced but inferior CSM squads (Min Squad of Tacticals cost 70pts, min unit of CSM costs 70pts thanks to the Aspiring tax), then I just have to laugh, hard.

          Also, you have the extremely effective and fast Death Company Detachment compared to the 3 of the Core formations. Also the Lost and the Damned formation cannot use their Outflank when coming out of reserves since it’s ongoing and that formation doesn’t get Ob. Sec. either.

          I also noticed that you decided to ignore the Lucifer Armoured Strike Force completely. Instead of having to pay a 110pts tax to get a 6+ Invulnerable save when within 12″ of the Warpsmith, you gain Scout, FREE Overcharged Engines and you only have to pay 50pts for the Techmarine. And don’t try to say that our Warpsmith gets things with him, those are literally worthless for him when his with this formation.

          Why would you use a Plasma Cannon against a vehicle or a Lascannon against a unit of infantry? You do know that formation has to shoot at the same target with different weapons, including those shot last turn? It’s nice, but it’s not the greatest since you can once again take into consideration the 110pts tax you have to take. Also the benefit disappears fast when that Warpsmith gets picked off thanks to his 2 wounds. He also has to remain within 8″ to give the special rule to a unit. Only single unit though.

          And finally, the last part. The Archangel Demi-company. The moment you said it was “the heaviest tax in the game” you lost all credibility. Tax usually refers to something you don’t want to pay for, in the case of KDK for example it’s the Possessed. I want that formation for my Ultramarines and I’m going to be fielding it a lot. 2 Furiouso Dreadnoughts inside Drop Pods, 2 units of 5 Sternguard with Meltas in Drop Pod, 1 unit of 10 Sternguard with Plasma in a Drop Pod and finally a unit of 5 Assault Terminators with Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields. I gain Stubborn, which is pointless most of the time thanks to ATKNF, but still it’s nice to have around in case of bad rolls in CC. Then there is the case of Turn 1 Deep Strike and 1D6 Scatter. This formation kicks the CSM one out of the park, since it can kill half of the CSM “Decurion” in one turn. Sure that thing gets expensive but I can still fit it inside a 1850pts game and have room to manoeuvre.

          • Flan man

            So I can tell by this, you just want to complain. You are making grandiose claims and not even looking at what I stated. I’ll try to debunk alot of your misinformation.

            I noticed that you left out the ability to customize your CSM to have BP&CC weapon, lending to how flexible they are. Also your, Icons help tailor the unit to what you need. You can gain fearless, Furious Charge with reroll charge distance. For 30pts you can have FnP. I have to spend an HQ slot and 65pts. I feel so bad for you and all those “worthless” options.

            Scouts with Sniper Rifles, and Camo Cloaks cost 70pts not 55. Math is fun isn’t it? I would rather pay 80pts for min troops in a standard CAD and load on better units than 110. Bolter scouts babysitting an objective will have little bearing on the game. They get charged, since as you pointed out they have infiltrate and are much more likely to get charged, they will more than likely be pulled off the table. Bolter scouts with furious charge, not all you think it is. It seems like you want cultists and scouts to be the same thing, and news flash, they aren’t.

            I never even mentioned lost and the damned, so yay for reading.

            I did not mention the Lucifer Armored Strike because I was listing complaints, and I think this formation is pretty cool and not half bad. Where the downside is, is that it is 645pts MINIMUM. Quite a hefty point sync for an auxiliary choice, and while fun, I don’t think it will return quite the hefty investment. But that is up for debate.

            I dont know why you hate your Warpsmith so much. Shatter defenses is a good ability IMO and helps get rid of pesky terrain huggers, like the scouts you pointed out. I will say that he is a bit heavy in points, but is far better in combat than our techmarines.

            I would fire a plasma cannon and a lascannon at the same target. Light armor and monsterous creatures will still feel the hurt of strength 7. The warpsmith can hide in the units of obliterators or mutilators, so the risk is not a high as your making it out to be.

            I never once said that the The Archangel Demi-company was the heaviest tax in the game. I only stated that its cost is more than twice your raptors formation, which is true. And you say that there is no tax within this formation, which is also untrue. I would never want to take a terminator captain, he’s no good unless he is in combat, and even then he is mediocre. What you quoted is 1410pts which will NOT fit in an 1850 game if you are trying to field the Angels Blade.

            Also, didnt you get a terminator formation that is cheaper in points minimum and can reroll hits and wounds against a target of your choosing? And you can change your target once the first is eliminated?

            You can say all you want that the grass is greener, but it doesn’t make the BA Detatchment or formations suddenly better. Most people wont even use it.

          • Karru

            I notice that there was some misinterpretation happening on both sides, trough slight wrong uses of words and lack of reading ability. But still some points I’d like to argue here.

            You do realise that ATSKNF and Combat Tactics is better than the CSM squad with BP&CC, right? I have yet to see anyone use them outside of KDK, where I have used them to very minor effect, but the kicker is the KDK buffs from the Bloodtithes. Also you mentioned those Icons… I hope you realise that we have these things called Cult Marines that do the same job far better for nearly the same price right? That’s one of the reasons why the formation is bad. We are not allowed to take Cult Marines in it, instead we are forced to take CSM squads. Also counting points here, a unit of 10 CSM with a Mark of Nurgle and Icon of Vengeance is 195pts without any other upgrades. That unit now has Toughness 5 and Fearless. For 192pts I can get a unit of 8 Plague Marines, which are equipped with Blight Grenades and Plague Knives and have Fearless and Feel No Pain on top of being toughness 5. Want to know something REALLY fun about that Icon you mentioned? It can be killed relatively easily since it is not a character. Barrage, Precision Shot, good flanking on the opponents part or too small unit fielding it are all major problems for it since once the bearer dies, the buff is gone. I’m trying to make this part clear, Chaos Space Marines are bad (the unit entry) compared to every Cult Marine available. This leads to the formation getting a lot weaker. It is still a lot better idea to field a Nurgle Lord on Bike with Burning Brand and Plague Marines as a CAD than the detachment.

            Next up, the Scouts. I believe both are to blame here when it comes to reading/writing. I said they have access to Sniper Rifles and Camo Cloaks, just like Tacticals have access to Grav guns but still cost 70pts base. I did not mean they take it and still cost 55pts. Again, I should’ve written it better and you should’ve maybe read it a bit better. Bolter Scouts are still better in my opinion than the Cultists, but I speak from personal experience since I do love my Scouts but don’t really like to field Cultists.

            Also, regarding your comment about math being fun, you tell me. The Icon of Excess can only be taken by units with Mark of Slaanesh. So a unit of 10 CSM would have to pay a mere 50pts for the pleasure of having it (2pts per model for Mark of Slaanesh and 30pts for the Icon). Only exception is the Noise Marines, but they already cost 17pts a model, so that’s even “worse”. Also, your FNP gets two wounds, is a character so can use “Look out, sir!” and gives +1 WS.

            I mentioned the Lost and the Damned because you mentioned the Archangel Demi-company. I expected we were talking about the regular BA Demi-company.

            When you said this:

            That is the heaviest “tax” in the game!

            What were you referring to? The Archangel Demi-company or the “Vanilla” Demi-company? From the way your wrote it, it seemed like you were talking about the Archangel, but once again, both are most likely to blame here.

            The Lucifer is more of a personal preference thing, I do agree. As is all “armoured” formations, like the SM and CSM one, since they are not cheap.

            It’s not exactly the fact that I “hate” the Warpsmith, it’s the problem that they decided to include him in 3 formations as a mandatory choice. He is not that cheap. That 110pts adds up fast.

            I personally wouldn’t hide him in a unit of Obliterators, I’d prefer a unit of CSM or Plague Marines that camp a nearby objective. Also, please don’t mention mutilators or I get nightmares about those awful looking faces they have.

            Thanks for the correction about the Archangel formation, I always forget those pesky Terminator Captains, since the Artificer Armour is superior in every way and as a SM and CSM player I forget the Terminator Armour even exists for characters. Also, I didn’t count those points that is true, but if your calculations are right I can still field the Ambush Scout Force as the Auxiliary and have a legal force.

            I decided not to buy the Traitor’s Hate since it really didn’t offer me anything and I never got my hands on a picture of the sheet for the Terminators. Chaos Terminators are somewhat bad compared to regular Terminators thanks to their Twin-linked Bolters compared to Storm Bolters. Chaos Terminators do cost 31pts a piece which is nice, but the formation requires you to take at least 3 units, which cost 95pts a piece with 3 models in them, unless the formation specifies you need a certain amount.

            Again, I wasn’t arguing that the basic “vanilla” detachment was “better” as in regular SM levels of broken, I was just trying to make it clear to the original poster, Gothmog, and his ridiculous claim that the BA Detachment was THE WORST in the game right now, that there are much worse detachments out there.

        • Shawn

          Angels of Death is rife with formations that are “ruleless.” They are there as a way to bring units not part of any other formation. They still benefit from Chapter Tactics and their Gladius-like detachment rules. For instance, the First of Medusa Strike Force, has a formation called honoured ancients. This allows me to field extra dreadnoughts in my list, another one, of which I cannot recall the name of at the moment, allows me to bring a unit of tactical marines and a dreadnought. This is perfect for me becuase I love running the Stormwing formation. Now I can bring an extra tact squad and dread, and just have them ride in the Stormraven.

      • I didn’t want free stuff. I wanted a useful benefit. There is nothing this offers BA that a Bala Strike Force doesn’t already offer. This it what makes it the worst decurion.

        Some of the formations are nice, albiet super expensove, but there is no reason to EVER take the framework.ever.EVER. it is useless.

        • Karru

          Wait… Are you saying that the Demi-company benefit is the ONLY reason that makes this the worst formations?! By the gods, don’t ever open the Orks book. Ever. You will most likely die of shock.

          The Ork Decurion gives the EXACT same benefit to the WAAAGH!-warband that it gives itself. The other Core formation is a tactical suicide thanks to its insane size and negligible benefit, Fear and re-roll to charges for Infantry units.

          You also seem to completely ignore the Death Company detachment. 6″ free movement + 12″ from Jump Packs with Drop Pod Dreadnoughts distracting from behind sounds bad to you?

          • No. That us not what I am saying. I am sayino that the +1I I can already get. Nothing new there. Then the other bonuses rely on my opponent being bad at simple math. I get a 6″ free movement? Well he just deploys 6″ back more than normal. And the zealot one. So my opponent either concentrates fire until 1 unit is destroyed or spreads fire and doesn’t allow a squad to fall below 50%. And since it rounds down, a smart player will realize they should take even number and not odd numbered squads, so it literally encourages me to spend more points on larger squads.

            Pretty much every other command benefit in every other army is passive and is not something your opponent can manipulate. +1 LD is always useful. Overwatch at higher BS is always useful. Zealot (which is only 1st Turn when I charead and highly situational already) when I loose 50% of a squad is only useful if my opponent can’t divide. Or he doesn’t care because he is literally being chargedone by only 2 Marines.

            Orson are bad I’ll give you that. But these “super formation” benefits are terrible.

        • Shawn

          Can you take any of the formations in the Angels Blade book with the Shield of Bhaal detachment?

          • Dami

            i dont see why you couldnt, it wouldnt count against aux choice though

          • Shawn

            Then that might be something to consider when building an army with the new BA book. Thanks Dami.

      • highwind

        Well, the CSM Metadetachment and its formations is actually much better than what you make out of it….

        – Double Boon roll with option of keeping both or discarding one is quite nice if you focus on a CC-Lord
        – Free VotLW also gives +1 LD which is very usefull and hatred vs. Imperium works on about 50% of all enemies
        – The main strength of the Chaos Warband is that it is much more fexible than a standard Battle Demi-Company… You can easily minimize stuff you dont want / have nearly no tax for army-wide ObSec

        And with all the stuft that recently came for CSM there are quite some neat combinations (The lost and the damned with plague zombies, Chaos Warband with Black Legion who have very nice artifacts, new PSI plus Sorcerer Conclave) while the strong stuff is still there (Belakor, CC-Lords plus Spawns, etc.) aswell updates Daemons as BB allies, CSM seem potent … Not OP Eldar/SM uberpowerlevel but more or less in par with DA, Necrons, Tau

        • Karru

          They might creep around Guard or Orks in term of power level, but not DA, Necrons or Tau. You see, the entire Core of the detachment suffers from the fact that all CSM units it requires are overpriced and not really that effective. In terms of flexibility it is nowhere near a Demi-company.

          Demi-company can take all Drop Pods and equip themselves with Meltas, Plasmas, Flamers and/or Grav and just pop right in the middle of the opponents army and just blast them to bits. You can take all Rhinos and Razorbacks and rush the opponent with them. Then you can make a mixed set with both long range fire power, mechanised units and Drop Pods. That Ob. Sec. stops working fast when the few units you took die, since you don’t want to waste points on one of the weakest units in the CSM book.

          Chaos Warband has two options when it comes to “flexibility”. Mechanised or foot slog. BA wins in the effectiveness department when it comes to the formations and who got the better end of the stick here. Of course, while the CSM one is covered in s***, the BA holds on to mud so it’s not the best.

          The problem isn’t the formations themselves, it’s the codex for CSM that brings their value down fast. Most CSM units are way overpriced for what they get, especially since we have to take the damn Champion every time we take a unit. Then there is the Boon table. I still find it the most annoying thing in the CSM book. Because it exists, GW won’t be giving us back our purchasable mutations and will try to make it “work”. Unfortunately when your table is a D66 where almost every option is worthless, it’s impossible.There is something I love about AoS and I hope they bring it over when 8th drops. The ability pick instead of rolling randomly. It will make Chaos so much more fun to collect since I can plan on giving my models different mutations they have gained over the centuries they have fought, instead of seeing my Champion of multiple melees getting better at shooting without any ranged weapons.

          Everyone knows that when your army is supposed to be CSM and the unit to avoid like a plague is CSM, there is something very, very wrong with the book. People keep saying that CSM is winning tournaments, but seem to ignore the comment when asked to check the supposed “CSM” list. The winning lists are just KDK army with Khorne Daemons and the Cabal.

    • Stealthbadger

      Really enjoyed this, funniest thing I’ve read in a while. Love the subtlety of the satire.

  • Kevin Maloney

    Both the Chaos and BA supplements have lots of shooting/charging/fighting out of sequence. The fact that this mechanic is repeated so much just seems like lazy rules writing to me.

    • Diagoras

      True. Both of these books absolutely reek of laziness and rushed writing. At least they put SOME effort into Angel’s Blade. Though, they do have two formations with no special rules whatsoever, whereas Traitor’s Hate only has the one.

      • Karru

        I really hope that one day GW does the same thing they did AoS General’s Handbook. Cooperate with people outside the company to come up with fun, interesting and balanced rules.

      • Charon

        Two. Spawn and cult troops.

        • Diagoras

          Ah. Touché, sir. I only remembered the cult troops.

        • Matt Craufurd

          The spawn is not a formation, its an auxiliary choice, as is the cult troops one. All the decurion style detachments have them built in so that its actually possible to build a list, by having a single unit here and there to plug the points gaps. For example the Necrons have Deathmarks, the Eldar have Rangers etc.

          • Charon

            Same for Rapid Assault Force and Fire Support Force. So your point beeing?

          • Matt Craufurd

            You and Diagoras said that there were two formations with no rules, which Diagoras said was lazy. Thats not the case. The Cult troops and Spawn options are not formations, and I think they are there for a good reason, not just laziness.

          • Nubu

            What would this reason be?

          • Matt Craufurd

            Because if you have a detachment of formations, it might not fit comfortably into say 1500pts, or 1850pts. You need the option of having a single unit or two to plug the gaps in your other formations to bring the points up without having to just splurge on wargear. I said as much above, and really these style of detachments have been out for 18 months now. Its pretty self explanatory.

          • Nubu

            I don’t think that’s a good reason to use some of the worst units in the game to do that (cults).

          • Diagoras

            Also a good point. Cult units are so overpriced that only base cost Noise Marines can fill any gap.

          • Diagoras

            Sorry about the confusion/debate that has sprung up during my absence. I will say that this has resulted from me not knowing the proper word for the auxiliaries.

            I do not think auxiliaries, as a concept, are lazy. Like you’ve said, it is a good way to add one unit to help round out a list.

            However, considering their significance, I believe it was extremely lazy of them to have reduced all non-Khorne cult marines to auxiliaries, instead of simply adding three more formations for the others.

            Why couldn’t they throw together thematic rules for three more formations?

            Best case: Further codexes (codexis..? codexi..?) will be centered around those.

            Worst case: Laziness.

            And I have become rather cynical of late, especially where the Black Crusade is concerned.

            I also, as Charon has suggested, find both of these supplements to be quite lazy and poorly thought out, regardless of the auxiliaries. Most formations range from okay to utterly worthless, (I am not, as many of my peers tend to do, exaggerating. The only formation I consider utterly worthless is the Trinity of Blood) no attempts were made to re-balance models through modification of rules or point values, and everything in Traitor’s Hate, with the exception of their tac objectives and all but one formation, are copied and pasted verbatim from other sources. No new psychic powers, no new warlord traits, no new boon table, no new wargear or relics.

            Now, I understand why (in theory) we shouldn’t get ridiculous skyhammer-esque formations, and ours are nerfed to be a lot fairer. However, it is ridiculous to try to implement a change in the power creep mid-edition. In practice, instead of creating fair and balanced formations, you are simply creating weak formations that cannot compete in the current format. If they wanted to start leveling the playing field, they should have simply moved on to Eighth Edition and fixed the issues as they released new codexes.

            I consider the pathetic amount of effort they have put into these books particularly lazy and insulting due to the fact that almost no thought seems to have been put into the fact that these supplements are supposed to represent the start of the 13th Black Crusade, an event that is supposedly very significant to the future of the universe.

            All in all, they simply feel like a rushed hack-job designed to move the narrative into the Black Crusade so that Eighth Edition can start into some sort of AoS style. And while I don’t necessarily think of that as a bad thing, I don’t understand why we simply couldn’t have started Eight Edition and started the Black Crusade with real, decent codexes at the same time.

          • Matt Craufurd

            No worries, it was my misunderstanding also. Personally I don’t play competitive 40k, and I’m pumped about the new CSM formation. I generally tend to play 1500pts, because the club i go to is after work, and any more than that takes too long. In my meta, i don’t tend to see Gladius, because it doesn’t fit comfortably into 1500, so free transports aren’t an issue. I’m excited about playing my CSM because its made me look at my army in a different way. Now I can field 3 squads of Ob Sec special weapon Havoks teams in Rhinos without worrying about Heavy slots. I love Raptors and Warp Talons, and I hope that they will function a bit more properly now. Ob Sec Land Raiders are now an option for me. Do i wish we had drop pods? Yes. Do I wish Chosen had some purpose? Yes. Do I wish I got different weapon options for Land Raiders? Sure. Do I wish Possessed were Beasts? Of course. BUT i’m sure there is more coming. A new codex would be great, but if you believe the rumours, then theres a whole load of Thousand Sons stuff coming out, which I would be very surprised if it doesn’t come with its own detachment and new rules in Fenris 2. Given that is the case, its not too much of a stretch to expect that other Cult Specific options are coming for Nurgle and Slaanesh. Given the rumours about Daemon Primarchs I also expect that we will be getting legion rules drip fed out in supplements to coincide with the DP models. So for now, this is the Warband detachment. Fine. I’ll play it. I’m sure I’ll have fun. I may win some and lose some, and I don’t expect I will ever be winning any tournaments, even with Eldar or Tau or Vanilla Marines. SO for now, for me, this is a win.

          • Diagoras

            You have some fair points, especially concerning the Raptors and Warp Talons. I am pretty happy that Warp Talons might see some play again. And I do prefer a casual setting, as everyone seems to have more fun. I’d much rather lose an interesting match than win a one-sided fight, and in a casual setting, that happens much more often.

            I do have a few people in my group that like to metagame even in casual, though, so I do wish I had an adequate response to them. I’ll be the first to admit that losing a one-sided fight isn’t too much fun, either.

            But, sweet evil Jesus, I hope those rumors are correct. As may be infered by my profile picture (hard to make out. Pretty small), the Sons of Magnus are my favorite army in the game.

            I don’t even particularly care if they’re good. I just want a few more options to paint and run.

          • Blight

            Do not forget that dreadclaws at 100 points are dedicated transports for CSM, chosen, and hellbrutes. Functions very similarly to drop pods and as a very mobile objective secured unit it can win you games. Just make an inverted drop pod and you are good. Wish it was a dedicated transport for more units. Possessed would greatly benefit from it.

          • Charon

            But thats the core of the issue… Neither of the 3 who can take it as dedicated are actually good enough to “earn” to be supported by another 100 points.

          • Blight

            Well chosen work fine as special weapon holders and if you are taking CSM anyway thanks to the formation requirements you might as well have them actually do a job. I find that the dreadclaws tends to be the more valuable part of the equation so if you are set on taking the formation it’s a good addition to it. Plus if you take a cheap CAD you can get three of them for any unit that can’t use them as dedicated.
            Been thinking about a way to use the possessed because if they actually have a delivery method that can keep up with a flying Prince then they aren’t useless.

          • Charon

            I dont know. the dreadclaw is ok if you pick it up as an assault vehicle but far too expensive if you just use it as a worse and more expensive variant of the loyalist drop pod.

          • Blight

            It is at least a drop pod that flys, burns things, and can pick up other units during the game. I have had an empty one win me a game a few times. They are very hard to get rid of and people feel like they are wasting their shots firing at it.

          • Charon

            I have never ever used the “burn things” option. This is far to expensive to risk a mishap just because of a few hits.
            Also 100 points for a poor mans flyer is a bit overcosted.
            As I said… if you pick it up as an assault vehicle it can be decent, but that needs a unit that is actually good at assaulting.

          • Blight

            When I was talking about burning things I didn’t mean when it deepstrikes then the unit couldn’t get out and it has a much higher chance of mishap. No I was talking about its ability to burn things it passes over in the movement phase at the cost of potentially rolling a 1 for each unit it passes over and taking a pen. Ignoring cover can kill a lot of small objective holder squads. Mostly a bonus while it flys around grabbing objectives.
            Yeah it’s over coated but so is the whole codex and it’s not as over costed as one might think. Just wish it was safer to have a dread in it. At least allthose warpsmiths we have to take prevent it from eating any of our models.
            Not a must take but a useful tool.

          • Charon

            Actuall it is quite save as delivery system. See, the lack of guidance is no problem if you do not intend to drop it right upon the enemy. You can deply father behind and next turn move up, disembark and assault.
            Granted that is no first turn assault, but these are overrated anyways as without support a lot of units just get overwhelmed.

          • euansmith

            “Just make an inverted drop pod and you are good.” Now, that’s the kind of thinking I like to see.

          • Charon

            Is it so hard to guess he just confused the terms or did not know the exact term for “a choice that is no formation but still kind a a detachment you can only pick if you got the core already? and he just lazily labeled it as “formation”?
            He also was talking about the whole book as lazy writing and went on to comlaint hat BA got 2 aux and Traitors hate only 1 ehich I corrected.

            So… your point?

          • Matt Craufurd

            If he’s talking about a formation not having any rules, then he doesn’t understand the concept of auxiliary choices in these style of detachments. Thats hardly a typo.

          • Charon

            I did not say typo, did I?
            Yes he did label it incorrectly as formation. But if you spend as much time about what he could have ment as you spent on smartassing you could have come to the conclusion that he knew what is was talking about but just mislabeled it.

          • Matt Craufurd

            He clearly didn’t mislabel it. He was complaining about it not having any rules. If he understood that it was an auxiliary choice, and not a formation he wouldn’t have been complaining about it.

            Edit: Also if it was laziness on his part, then thats hilariously ironic, given that he was complaining about laziness in someone else’s writing.

          • Charon

            He was not complaining about them not having rules he was complaining that BA got more of them than traitors hate.

          • Matt Craufurd

            Fair enough.

    • euansmith

      It looks like a trend, this is will probably be in the next Space Marines’ Codex, “Special Snowflake USR: once per phase you can ignore any one rule of your choosing.”

      • Stealthbadger

        Oh euan you were once so positive. What has Kirby co. done to you.

        • nurglitch

          Isn’t that an actual Necron rule though, for Nemesor Zandrekh or someone?

          • Stealthbadger

            No theirs is the USR ‘it will not die. No seriously.’

        • ZeeLobby

          Ruined the game he played, haha.

  • Realspace Raider

    I’m a Dark Eldar, Iron Warriors and Flesh Tearers player.
    I prefer seeing the positive in all of that : new tools and new concept. New disciplines for both CSM & BA, squadrons, opportunity to field / spam AV13 vehicules, heavy grav for BA, easy flying circus / mounted lords spam as CSM with the command choice supported by immortal cultists, and spawns, etc…

    As far as i’m concerned what I can guess is that charging from Deep Strike is now “allowed”, and disordered charge seems to be the way it goes (raptor talon + BA assault termies). My only hope now, is that there is some errata on Webway Portal in order to allow wyches & incubi to behave the same, and add them to my DE list.

    • Charon

      It was already allowed to Space Marines in two formations without beeing forced to do it disordered.

      • Realspace Raider

        I don’t care about Vanilla, I care about my three armies

        • Charon

          Which still does not make the statement correct.
          Also a disordered for wyches does nothing at all. This is already bad as it is and not even an imperial guard platoon is afraid of 2 S3 attacks per model, especially after overwatch.

          • Realspace Raider

            You don’t charge an imperial platoon with wyches if you know how to play DE … they are meant to tarpit small elite units, not to be sacrified in front of blobs of peons

          • Charon

            10 expensive T3 models with a 4++ do not “tarpit” anyone. They lose the first round of combat, run away and grant your opponent an additional move.

          • Realspace Raider

            Wyches are wound points (LOS) for the agonizer hekatrix + glaive succubus. On T3 assault phase, they have 4++ and 5+ FNP (there are not too many S6 close combat weapon around). Give me some assault rules for my WWP and we discuss it later. At the moment, WWP has no rules, so you’re right, wyches are still useless. But as You see only the negative, I see the positive in the new CSM & BA formations –> disordered charge after deep strike is great, and you can’t argue on that.

          • Charon

            You can easily argue on that as disordered charge makes you less effective than a squad in rapid fire range.
            The difference between 10 wyches making a disordered charge and 10 kabalites using the WWP just to get into rapid fire range is basically:
            The enemy can overwatch
            you always hit on 3+
            you always wound on 4+
            you got AP5
            the enemy cant attack back this turn
            Kabalites are cheaper

            This is how good a disordered charge is.

            Same with raptors. A lowly unit of CSM in rapid fire range has more kill potential than raptors making a disordered charge.

          • Realspace Raider

            You can’t have AP2 or AP3 weapon with kabalites

          • Charon

            Why would I need them? I can add on more Kabalites as it is as your unit already is more expenive anyways. Also Blasters do exist.

          • Realspace Raider

            No need to discuss with you anymore. You know the universal truth of all. Discussion was about the opportunity of charging right after deep strike, you’re still arguing about the efficiency of wyches vs kabalites. We all know that kabalites are better than wyches nowadays. Have a nice day.

          • Charon

            Sound argument. The opportunity of assaulting from deepstrike is worthless if this opportunit does provide less damage than other options. An option is not good because you could not do it before.
            I really dont get why people react lik 5y old when they are proven wrong.

          • Parthis

            Because there is absolutely no reason what-so-ever that you may want to throw a cheap melee unit at an expensive shooty unit as quickly as possible. Ever.

            Talking solely about damage is just silly.

          • Charon

            If you are playing terribad opponent that do not know how to prevent their expensive shooty units from melee you might have a point. But then again it does not matter what you play as your opponent is terrible anyways. So why bother?
            You do run often into people that let their valuable units all alone somewhere on the battlefield?

          • Parthis

            Turn 1, unlikely. Turn 2+ sure. Many, many situations in which i’d want to be able to lock something distant up in cheap melee.

          • Charon

            Then please tell your opponent to practice bubblewrapping their valuable units all game long. If people manage to do that against melta sternguard, you should be even more able to do it against a melee unit.
            Also keep in mind that these situations most probably arise as assault from DS is not widespread and people will learn how to deal this if it is available to more armies.
            People also learned how to keep skyhammer away from valuable units, no reason to assume they are unable to do so against wyches.

          • nurglitch

            It’s actually kind of neat that a Terminator Annihilation Force can shoot off bubble-wrap for the Raptor Talon charge.

          • Charon

            You play on planet billard table often? Enough place to DS 2+ units in close range and your special cheat dice that never scatter?

          • nurglitch

            No, but I’m perfectly willing to cop a few dangerous terrain tests, use daemonic allies to minimize scatter on the Warp Talons, and take a few risks.

          • Charon

            dangerous terrain =/= mishap. You want to bring them down 7″ (preferably less) next to your intended target. Dangerous terrain is the least of your problems.
            Daemoninc Allies are no CSM. they might help with Warp talons, but not with raptors. Also you need them in place when the unit becomes available. That is a lot of IFs and just calls for a terrible opponent.
            I think it is hilarious how the crowd that strictly opposes theoryhammer applies the worst kind of theoryhammer when conjuring optimal conditions and an inactive opponent out of thin air while switching out units at will to match with the unrealistic construct.

          • nurglitch

            And difficult terrain means you just take dangerous terrain tests instead of mishapping. Interestingly you don’t need to take Raptors in a Raptor Talon, but if you go that route you can take a Dimensional Key for precision landings. A Maelstrom of Gore Chaos Lord with a Jump Pack may be able to pull off
            As for theory-hammer, I like it, I like doing it, and I’m willing to acknowledge the risks and counter-moves involved, especially as I’m planning for my first game this Thursday. Should be fun!

          • Karru

            A unit of Raptors might be able to hold a “expensive shooty unit”, but Wytches won’t be doing that. Yes, you can charge from Deep Strike but it makes no difference for some units. A unit of 5 Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield Terminators can damage AND hold a unit in place. A unit of Raptors might be able to do that, but they would need to be larger than a unit of 5, which makes them extremely risky to land.

            You have to take into consideration things like actual damage output and price efficiency. Those Warriors would be able to shoot the Special Weapons from behind in the usual cases since they are not able to take any “look out, sir!” rolls for them.

          • highwind

            So what AP do your Kabalites Blasters / Blastpistols have then?

            Perhaps you shouldshould go and read the basic rules of a codex before making up complete nonsense as “arguments”.
            Wyches are useless with their current rules. Periode.

          • Nubu

            The basic melee unit of the game is the wolf star. That’s s10.

            Disordered from DS is great if you skip the facts. Facts like Skyhammer producing just as melee capable devastators than the raptors are from disordered charge after DS.

          • Andrew Thomas

            It’s a pity that, from a general meta perspective, this is the case. Yet more proof that the tournament circuit needs some limiting of the field, in regard to elite armies like Eldar, Tau, or Wolves.

          • Nubu

            Or rather GW should do it’s job. Many of the tournament circuits deliberately make house rules to even the field and still the status quo remains. This is not a fault of the tournament organizers but rather proof of GW’s lack of professional skill.

          • benn grimm

            Lol. Wyches are pretty much the worst troops choice in the game, I find it hilarious that you think a change to the rules for WWP would change this. If you could assault off DP (which is not going to happen), why would you bother using wyches when you have incubi or grots?

          • wibbling

            You’ve misunderstood how to use Wyches, and how Dark Eldar players use them. You only attack units when they’re nigh on finished.

          • Charon

            Beeing a DE player myself I certainly know how to use Wyches. By substitute them with vastly superior Kabalites and Fill the melee gab with Grots. There is no reason at all to weaken an already weak army even more. Disordered from DS is not the savior you are looking for.

      • nurglitch

        The Raptors and Warp Talons will be disordered by charging multiple units to lock down the most units, and to maximize the -2Ld penalty anyways. It seems like a wash to me.

        • Charon

          You need to charge a single unit with 2+ raptor units to get the -2.
          Also how big do you think these raptor units are and how stupid does your opponent have to be to allow for this?
          You still scatter 66 % of the time and it is hard enough to place a single 5 man unit somewhat safe while still trying to get them close enought to maybe assault.
          I relly want to see the table and the opponent that allows for multiple 10 man raptor units to DS next to a prime target.

          • nurglitch

            I’m going with 5-man squads, a dimensional key, and chaos daemon icons. As for stupid, well, I can clear bubble-wrap using the Terminator Annihilation Force.

          • Charon

            And all that wile you hope for your reserves to become available in tourn 3 or 4… yeah. Sure. Theoryhammer on.
            Why not go further down that road and expect your opponent to roll nothing but 1s?

          • nurglitch

            Risk-assessment is the name of the game. Let’s consider it though. The scatter die is such that only 1/3 of landings will stick, with 2/6 scattering 7″ on average, and 12″ at worst. So that’s ~72% chance of deviating 7″ or less. Not bad.

          • Charon

            Your math is way off. While every inch in the general direction of the unit will benefit (you may add that to your 33 % success rate) every inch in any the other direction is not only a potential mishap depending on the circumstances on the map but also may make your charge roll harder or deny it at all.

          • nurglitch

            Okay, so how do I go about correcting the math?

          • Stealthbadger

            Oh nurglitch, you and your failure to accept the dice ALWAYS roll average.

            How dare you suggest manning up and just trying it despite the odds because deep down you know that if it does work…

            IT WILL BE EPIC.

          • nurglitch

            I like to think of it as Worst-Case, Best-Case, and Average-Case.

          • Stealthbadger

            For me most games are really just about that epic moment a guard sergeant took down a meganob despite the odds.

            People really should just put the calculator away and see what Lady Luck can come up with.

            Some people just see the maths though.

          • nurglitch

            I like both. I like the math for quantifying exactly how epic it can be to bluff a win on a pair of Twos. I like how it can shape and reveal tactics. And obviously it’s useful for talking Lady Luck into bed.

          • Stealthbadger

            Good points all.

          • nurglitch

            Also, technically speaking I’m hoping they come in on turn 2, but I’m planning for them coming in turns 2-4, since it’s roll 3+ on 2 & 3 then automatic arrival on 4. Turn 2 is ideal, but only a 66% chance.

    • Andrew Thomas

      Come on GW, make us regret shelving/selling our Wyches.

    • Tshiva keln

      I’m afraid it’s time for you to stop playing 40k. We can’t have people posting sensible comments and appreciating the positives of their new books. That sort of thing can break the whole internet! Go to your room and think about what you have done.

      • Realspace Raider

        shame on me! you’re right 😉

  • Kyle Johnstone

    It’s getting increasingly frustrating with every new Blood Angels release, gw deciding to tone down the rule sets… Yet again Blood Angels will be the worst at what they are known for… With formations like the skyhammer and decurions like the Space Wolves, the idea that we’re considered “the” assault army according to fluff is plainly laughable…. GW yet another bland dex for BA.. At least Matt Ward gave us a dex which set us apart, not just being the red ones who go faster….

    • Nubu

      What are you talking about? Did you look at the formations? BA assault lists are now hilariously good.

    • Kyle Johnstone

      The disordered charge takes the formations from potentially worth it to just plainly overpriced…. Take skyhammer as a basis and compare each of these “assault” formations to that….

      • Blight

        But you get to assault with thunder hammer storm shield terminators not assault Marines. Hell that blows raptor talon out of the water. You have no right to complain about your particular flavor of assault from deepstrike.

  • OolonColluphid

    So no Frag Cannons as special weapons, not even for Sternguard? You’d think the guys that had it for their Dreadnoughts would get it for First Company BA as well after the release of the Deathwatch Codex.

  • Girolamo

    Does the +1 initiativ stack from the detachment and the demi company?
    So they get +2 when charging?

    • Charon

      If it goes by a different name, sure.

      • Master Avoghai

        It goes by the same name so no stack

      • Girolamo

        Well tat sucks then. It would have been nice if they atleast stacked, since you don’t get any other bonus from the formation.

    • Master Avoghai

      Nope, it’s just the extension of the same rule to the whole gladius

  • Painjunky

    This is pretty damn awful.

    Why does GW hate CSM and BA sooooo much???

    Is it because BA are almost khorne and so deserve to be beaten repeatedly with the same nerfbat?

    • Nubu

      So, what’s the nerf? Everything in these formations makes BA even more better than CSM.

      • Painjunky

        Yeah CSMs have it worse but BA are clearly the worst of the power armoured franchise.

        • Nubu

          CSM is one faction in the power armor franchise. Just saying.

          • Painjunky

            No CSMs are in the spikey power armour franchise.

          • Nubu

            You mistake CSM for those special snowflakes that are SM.

    • benn grimm

      Is it really awful though? Or just awful in comparison to what vanilla marines get?

      • Blight

        That is the standard we all seem to measure our stuff by. Can’t really compare to Eldar because we all know they are crazy powerful but Space Marines seems so close and yet so far from where we could be. We all want our time in the sun, and maybe to rip the smirk off of a loyalist’s face.
        True death to the corpse emperor.

        • benn grimm

          Marines are just as strong as Eldar. I’m not overly bothered about power levels tbh, (as nice as a nerfing for the OP armies would be) I’d just like more decent customization options, less shopping list formations. In that respect 30k and the new DW codex are pretty cool. I just want the basic tools to create lots of different kinds of CSM armies in the way I like and the way you like and the way the next guy/gal might like.

          Iron within, Iron without…;)

          • euansmith

            You do realise you can just turn the shirt inside out rather than trying to iron the inside.

          • benn grimm

            You try turning daemically possessed power armor inside out…;)

          • nurglitch

            This is what the Black Crusade list is for me…

          • benn grimm

            I’m seeing a lot of expensive, (model and point wise) powerful formations and powers, there’s definitely some good stuff in there, but it’s still pretty prescriptive and follows the pattern of rewarding spamming lots of the same model with slightly OP rules. It would be nice (for example) if berserkers were just pretty good instead of being insanely good because you have twenty of them in 4 squads plus a lord, or just a bit rubbish because you didn’t.

            What would be really cool, would be some new wargear options for them, or some new gameplay mechanic inherent to the troop type that doesn’t require having to buy a set number of them.

          • nurglitch

            I find it rewards those of us who built armies of stuff. Like how, back when the Gladius was released, I was rewarded for having built a battle company, or how I’m being rewarded for buying all those Terminators, Raptors, Zombies, and so on. In fact I have about 20 CSM I’ll probably never use as CSM, and that haven’t been painted because I have several warbands-worth of the same, so I’m mulling re-purposing them as Berzerkers. Maybe it helps that all my CSMs have the corinthian Berzerker head when they don’t have the CSM Champion head (which the Champions do).

      • Painjunky

        Awful compared to SM, eldar, tau, crons, SW, DA, Ad Mech, DW that’s all I can think of right now.

  • pokemastercube .

    no cataphractii armour or contemptors, or dreadnought squads? update sucks

  • Defenestratus

    Oh look another chaos whinge thread.
    Carry on. ..

    • Charon

      Oh look the guy with the top tier army and the most cheese at his arsenal talks to the peasants from his high horse.
      Carry on…

  • Jeffrey T Green

    I’m pretty excited about this. Do we really just want to copy and paste the same stuff as other codex? I like how it is flavorful and unique. Plus we get some assault from deep strike love. Yes it counts as disordered but you can do it! I personally have still been winning tournaments with my blood angels this book just made me eliminate 50 percent of the tax.

    • Nubu

      There we go. Honesty. I love it.

  • William Ferguson

    seems a lot of the armies made with these detachments can charge from deep strike. the lucifer armoured force sounds good – scouting and fast land raiders. and it seems you can slot in a spare stormraven. despite the grumbling there is potential

  • pompeyladBFP

    Well death company with vet support it is.. Obj secured is not required when you can just rip peoples faces off

    • Nubu

      This.

  • Admiral Raptor

    Leaders of the Angelic Host. I can work with this! Now if I can only get the seven layers of dust off my Blood Angels in time for a game!

    This actually seems like a good update. Colour me impressed! If only Traitors Hate had been written this competently I might have had two armies now worth playing.