FFG & GW Part Ways

gamesworkshop-ffg-part-ways

Fantasy Flight Games just announced the conclusion of their business relationship with Games Workshop.

Here is the formal Press Release from FFG – September 9th 2016

ffg-gw-logos

A New Path Forward

Fantasy Flight Games and Games Workshop Conclude Their Business Relationship

In 2008, Fantasy Flight Games first began publishing great games set in the amazing Games Workshop universes. From the earliest days of the partnership, Games Workshop played a key role in the Fantasy Flight Games library, helping us further develop roleplaying games like Dark Heresy and Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, while creating and establishing new board games like Chaos in the Old World and Forbidden Stars, and Living Card Games® such as Warhammer 40,000: Conquest and Warhammer: Invasion.

Games Workshop has been a fantastic partner for the past eight years, and we’re thrilled that we had the opportunity to work together and bring so many new and exciting games into the world. As much as we have enjoyed creating these games, our current licensing term is coming to an end.

Beginning February 28th, 2017, Fantasy Flight Games will no longer offer for sale any games in conjunction with Games Workshop, including Talisman and all games taking place in the Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40,000 universes.

We’re extremely grateful to our friends at Games Workshop for giving us the opportunity to play in the worlds that they created, and we wish them nothing but the best in their future endeavors.

For more details, please keep reading in the FAQ below.

ffg-gw-products

What is the timeframe for the conclusion of the business relationship?

All upcoming products for Games Workshop-licensed games have already been announced and will be released in upcoming months. All Games Workshop-licensed product lines will leave the Fantasy Flight Games catalog on February 28th, 2017.

What does this mean for Fantasy Flight Games products created from Games Workshop properties?
As stated above, after February 28th, 2017, product lines dealing with Games Workshop properties will end and will no longer be offered for sale by Fantasy Flight Games.

All upcoming products for these product lines have already been announced—there will be no new announcements of additional Games Workshop-licensed products. All announced, currently unreleased products will be released before the conclusion of the business relationship between Fantasy Flight Games and Games Workshop.

The full list of product lines leaving the Fantasy Flight Games catalog is:

• Black Crusade
• Blood Bowl: Team Manager
• Chaos in the Old World
• Chaos Marauders
• Dark Heresy
• Dark Heresy Second Edition
• Deathwatch
• Forbidden Stars
• Fury of Dracula
• Only War
• Relic
• Rogue Trader
• Space Hulk: Death Angel
• Talisman
• Warhammer: Diskwars
• Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay
• Warhammer: Invasion The Card Game
• Warhammer Quest: The Adventure Card Game
• Warhammer 40,000: Conquest
• All Fantasy Flight Supply products showing imagery licensed to Games Workshop

What does this mean for Warhammer 40,000: Conquest Organized Play?
Organized Play support for Warhammer 40,000: Conquest will conclude this year at the Fantasy Flight Games World Championships. After the 2016 World Championships, there will be no Organized Play support for Warhammer 40,000: Conquest.

Retailers: All pre-orders for Warhammer 40,000: Conquest Store Championship Kits
and Quarter 1 Tournament Kits have been canceled. These kits have been discontinued and will not be released. Retailers will not be charged for these kits.

+++ End Press Release +++

~ It’s been fantastic 8 year license with so many great products, but all things must end.

  • WOW! Although many of us saw this coming. As a huge fan of Talisman, I wonder what that means for the game? Out of print? or will GW put out another “newer” version. Grab those FFG expansions now.

    Kind of sad face at the Warhammer Quest card game- a FANTASTIC game, that I was hoping for some expansions other then the two character packs, oh well…

    • Shawn

      I think GW is trying to take command, so to speak of their IP gaming potential. Since they created their specialty games division, I am betting that they want to explore those options such as board games, card games, and rpgs, hence the cancellation of their partnership. However, if I can get my hands on some of the DW rpg supplements on the cheap, I’ll be a happy camper.

  • SirDavideo

    what an absolute disaster 🙁

    • Ragnar Black

      See it same way.

  • WellSpokenMan

    Looking forward to seeing how FFG/Asmodee fill in the holes these will leave in the product line. This has been a long time coming. GW is not a community oriented corporation and their partnership with FFG was way out of character for them.

    • Neil Carleton

      The fact that FFG a selling a ton of X-Wing stuff and have a tabletop game of their own underway has a lot to do with it I imagine. GW and FF are more like competitors for the same market now.

      • Dennis Finan Jr

        They are totally different games tho

      • ZeeLobby

        Agreed. And their new game looks great!

      • Zethnar

        I think their tabletop wargame is more a response to losing the license rather than the other way round. There’s no way they’d willingly sacrifice the GW license for an unproven minis game set in a universe that reads like ‘babby’s first DnD campaign’.

      • Vomkrieg

        I suspect the resurrection of “specialist games” is a more likely cause. FFG have had mini games in the past, like Dust.

  • Alan C

    I’m interested to see what will become of Fury of Dracula. That might be the best all around game on that list but I don’t know that its going to really fit into GW’s specialist line. Shame too since that’s such a new edition.

    • Falchieyan

      I’m also curious as a big fan of the game. 2nd edition of FoD ended up being resold for ludicrous sums of money due to being very good and out of print. I wonder if the same will happen for the recent 3rd edition.
      Going to miss not being able look forward to any expansions of the excellent Warhammer Quest card game.

    • blackbloodshaman

      wait fury of dracula was licensed from gw? how? it has nothing to do with warhammer

      • Daniel Sundblad

        Ancient boardgame, mid 80’s…

      • Alan C

        Surprisingly, GW had a bunch of board games in the 80s that had nothing to do with Warhammer. I only found out myself when I found Curse of the Mummy’s Tomb at flea market a while back and was shocked to see the “Games Workshop” logo on the back.

      • Vomkrieg

        GW started as an actual Games Workshop. Making different games for different settings. It was the sucess of Warhammer and 40k and the minis thing that made them focus solely on that part of the business.

        White dwarf also used to have D&D articles in it.

  • tau4eva

    So many good games in that list

  • BranFromNM

    GW is licensing off more and more mobile game trash that weakens their IP, yet they discard one of the few license deals that strengthened their brand.

    I’m sure they’re hoping for FFG fans to come over and play their products, but it isn’t like GW is going to issue its own Conquest card game continuation and it has been out of the RPG department for quite a while. It couldn’t even issue rules for Age of Sigmar at launch… what are they thinking?

    • WellSpokenMan

      http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/03/industry-the-top-5-miniatures-games-are.html
      I assume they are thinking that they don’t want to be partnered with a company that it outselling them in North America. GW will be fine. They’ll just license some more iPhone games to make up for the loss in revenue.

      • Daniel Sundblad

        Doubt the FFG licences were that “valuable” to begin with, compared to the videogames, tbh.

        A more not GW-Hateboi’ish guess is that this ending, or more likely, non-renewal, comes from FFG’s side, what with them wanting to focus on their Star Wars licence.

        • WellSpokenMan

          It could be, but GW has a well earned reputation for being “prickly.” With model sales down overall I doubt management was too keen on helping a company that was a direct competitor.
          I don’t hate GW. I don’t understand anybody who has the time and energy to hate or adore a toy soldiers company. My feelings for GW are more on par with my feelings for Home Depot or Nissan.

          • Shawn

            I think it could be also, that GW wants to explore their game options in house with their new specialty games division. This division can be used to make new board games and roleplaying games. And, in the long run, might be less costly then partnering with another company to create them.

        • rtheom

          I would suspect this, but FF has already made a lot of games, as evidenced by the list above. They don’t need to put any more effort into those games aside from ensuring that production takes place. They’re very nearly pure profit at this point. GW, however, likely sees this as a chance to regain full control of their licenses and the opportunity to use them in production of their own games, which they’ve already started to do with the release of Deathwatch, Lost Patrol, etc.

      • Ross Allan

        Sorry dude, but got to challenge you on this again.

        The link you’ve posted doesn’t include GW’s own sales, by store or online – so to say FFG are outselling them in North America is pretty far from accurate.

        You may be able to work out more from their Annual Report, but whilst I know it offers breakdowns on sales method, and breakdowns by territory, I don’t think it offers both on a single breakdown?

        Plus, from the wording on the statement from FFG, it’s actually really hard to tell who dumped who in this relationship, let alone why. So it’s a matter of perspective. Two very broad strokes of which I’ll detail below.

        1. GW didn’t offer the license for re-tender. Having seen what FFG have done, they prefer to take it back in-house, and keep all that luvverly filthy lucre for themselves.

        2. FFG had the option of renewing, but feel the cost doesn’t justify the means anymore, given their more recent license developments (seriously, a Disney/Star Wars license, whilst inevitable lucrative? That can’t come cheap)

        3. Anything in between possibilities 1 and 2. It could even be both, because business isn’t a zero sum game.

        Now, what I’m interested to see is whether or not the license agreement twixt GW and FFG will allow GW to simply republish the fruits of other people’s labour.

        • WellSpokenMan

          Challenge denied. I posted a BoLS link with an article by ICv2. If you want to challenge them, take it up with them. Whether or not the numbers are accurate, I don’t think GW sees it in their best interest to provide a profitable IP to a company that is a competitor. I know I wouldn’t. That’s not even taking into account GW’s declining profits on their games. I was speculating on GW’s motivations, not FFG’s.

    • Brian Carraway

      I expect the board games to be redone by GW, as they are seeing good returns in their own board games. The card games will likely be licensed out, same for the RPGs. My guess is GW wanted the board games back but nothing else and FF wanted it to be all or nothing. Of course, it could be that GW and FF were at odds because GW will likely be bring back BFG which would compete against SW Armada, and FF is putting out their own tabletop war games which competes with AoS and 40k.

    • BranFromNM

      I’m such an idiot. Now that I’m back to thinking about it the licensing deal was too encompassing.

      What we’ll most likely see from this is individual licenses granted on a per title basis to anyone willing to agree to the terms and fees.

      I expect companies like Cryptozoic to bite on this and put out some weak products.

    • Alan C

      I think its more to do with Fantasy Flight’s X-wing game being such a challenge to 40k as well as the rumors of a Star Wars 40k-like game coming to pass. They’ll be direct competitors at that point. I know there’s a trend of streamlining complex game systems now but I think the threat of that is the big reason GW is making the effort now.

      • V10_Rob

        The much rumored and long speculated tabletop wargame in the same vein as Warhammer, IE, mass ground combat? If there’s any IP that can challenge GW’s, it’s Star Wars.

        Still a bit of a gamble. I’d be worried about the scale, myself. 32mm scale vehicles would be pricey and require a lot of table space for an epic battle. 15mm, along the lines of Flames of War, seems like it’d be a better fit, price- and presentation-wise.

        • Evil Otto

          If FFG produced a 28-32mm Star Wars miniature wargame with pre-painted minis I’d just go ahead and sign my paychecks over to them to save time.

      • Zethnar

        Well FFG’s Star Wars license is for ‘Miniatures games’ not boardgames. They’ve had to seek special permission to release things like Imperial Assault. It only makes sense for them to eventually branch out into a full blown miniatures wargame.

        GW’s license might have been more valuable to them had GW not placed so many restrictions on it. They really are their own worst enemy.

        • Vomkrieg

          “FFG’s Star Wars license is for ‘Miniatures games’ not boardgames”

          Source for that, because the evidence is really against that. They have the Star Wars LCG, 3 different RPGs, Empire vs Rebellion & Destiny which have no figs. And Imperial assault and Rebellion which are traditional boardgames with figs.

          They have a product in virtually every boardgame niche right now for Star Wars.

    • Neal Laxman

      I assume you don’t remember citadel combat cards then?

      THey were great, I haven’t played conquest so assume it is deeper but a precedent is a precedent

    • Dennis Finan Jr

      Those mobile games make alot more than those board games in-between and reach a bigger audience

  • OolonColluphid

    This what a stupid deal to end. Deathwatch/Black Crusade was pretty much the only real true to fluff way to play in the Warhammer 40k universe.

  • Nubu

    Sad to see no expansions for forbidden stars.

  • Raven Jax

    This is huge.

    Everyone keep in mind that for the past few years Games Workshop licensing off of its IP has been saving the financial health of the company. Now they don’t even have that. I doubt licensing for video games will be enough. And I bet the new CEO was counting on that cushion of licensing fees for a few years so he could right the ship. I suspect this is seriously going to hurt GW.

    Last year was also the first year that X-Wing surpassed 40K as the most-sold miniature game. Sounds like FFG is no longer interested in “helping” one of their biggest competitors. They already have the Imperial Assault board game. Wonder if they’re going to try to launch a Star Wars army miniature game to compete directly with 40K?

    • WellSpokenMan

      Just because FFG made the announcement doesn’t mean that they made the decision.

      • Raven Jax

        Fair point. I just can’t imagine GW making the decision themselves to end the financial relationship. That would be a pretty bone-headed business decision on their part.

        Okay, so maybe it was GW.

        • zeno666

          GW is well known for making very bad decisions.

        • Evil Otto

          You just described Games Workshop’s marketing strategy for the last three decades.

  • Xodis

    I blame Asmodee

    • m3g4tr0n

      You’re correct. They probably wanted a bigger piece of the pie, or more control. GW doesn’t share the sandbox well.

      • Muninwing

        you have no proof that it was them. it could just as easily have been GW’s short-term thinking that wanted out of a long-term strategy.

        their business decisions have not been stellar for a long time now, so they probably own some blame even if they won’t admit it.

        • m3g4tr0n

          That could very well be. They’ve been releasing hybrid board/tabletop games, and they’ve been fairly successful. I can see them wanting more of that pie.

        • Xodis

          We know a couple things that are concrete about GW.
          They love money
          They will get their money or cut you off trying.
          They made quite a few bucks on licensing.

          It would be out of character for them to end the relationship unless Asmodee/FFG just wanted either more control or more cash. Not saying its a bad decision on either’s part, but the simple facts paint a pretty easy to understand figure.

          • WellSpokenMan

            I see it the other way. The first and third of the top 5 selling miniatures games in North America are from FFG. With GW’s miniature sales flat for the last couple of years I don’t think management wanted to be seen as helping a rival. Those IPs were likely worth more to FFG than GW. That’s a substantial chunk of their product line.

          • Xodis

            Thats possible. I still see prepainted tournament games (Xwing) as being in a slightly different, yet closely related, market than GWs though. I just hope it leads to a StarWars styled Skirmish/Wargame that can rival 40K/AoS. No need to play nice now lol

          • An_Enemy

            See it however you’d like. To anyone else in the world they’re just oddly expensive toys whether you paint them yourself or not.

          • Xodis

            True, but those not already in the hobby probably find a game that requires no glue or paint much more enticing. I know I did before I got sucked in. Hard to defend $15 for a painted and ready to play model over a $15 model that requires at least 30 minutes of work.

      • Ragnar Black

        I believe it is similar case like when Black Library was withdrawing the license from the small book publishers for the non english speaking countries. Thay are smelling money and I believe they are afraid of the Old World stigma around and the possibility to do some interesting End Times RPG / Boardgame.

        Another question is that this might be the reason why the BB will be released next year.

  • Jice

    Well then…that was..really unexpected. But I guess the good news is I’ll know when I’ll be done collecting 40K Conquest.

    It was pretty interesting with the Warhammer card game when it finally was done releasing new cards, it made people buy it more, cause then they knew they had everything available to them. So in a weird way I’m kinda looking forward to the end of Conquest in the same way. Once it’s done I’ll have everything and it will just feel more complete.

    • Ragnar Black

      I got same with Warhammer Invasion.Sad is that this is more like bloody end to Conquest than the slow decline of WH Invasion.

  • m3g4tr0n

    I wish they had at least allowed the expansion to Forbidden Stars to be released. Maybe GW will release something similar to use as a launching pad for Battlefleet Gothic.

    • Ragnar Black

      I would really doubt that. FFG have preatty fresh ideas for boardgames in comparision to the GW.

      Hehe, where is the statement “We are just model company, We are nit interested in making rules.”

  • Luca Lacchini

    Well, there goes the most awesome licensing of the early millennium.

    WHFRPG 3rd Ed., while hotly debated for its innovative style, was awesome. The whole WH40K line of RPGs is a great example of what you can do with multiple thematic titles (Rogue Trader + Only War + Dark Heresy = WIN).
    Warhammer Disk Wars and the recent Warhammer Quest the Card Game kept the whole Old World alive and very much kicking on the tabletop.

    Hope for the best, but fear the worst.

    • Muninwing

      is that perhaps part of the problem? the Old World was such a success elsewhere that it’s a reminder of how they squandered it?

      • Luca Lacchini

        Don’t think so (with no hard data, just gut feeling).
        Moreover, keeping the Old World as a setting for tabletop games or RPGs published by another company wouldn’t affect the sales of a miniatures game too much, IMHO.

      • NovaeVox

        I don’t forsee GW cutting ties with Sega or Focus Home Interactive any time soon over that trifle.

    • Grasshopper

      WHFRPG 3 was indeed a misunderstood gem. I mean it seriously. Didn’t play much of it but I thought that it did blend roleplaying and game very well – and at least helped to develop FFG’s SWRPG.

      • Ragnar Black

        I played it three years and it was much better than the SW rpg thar followed (played it as well).The cards, custom dices, decision making on the outcome was the biggest improvement I have seen in RPGs in past decade.The only sad thing there was that there wasnt any big expansion for elves.

        • Grasshopper

          It was a bold (and imo greatly needed) design decision that was not so well received by the traditional rpg audience (and hey: who is more stubborn and unflexible then us TT and RPG guys?). Same goes for D&D 4th edition that had similiar elements in its design philosophy: An RPG that has its “gamey” part clearly fleshed out but that put also a great emphasis on group storytelling and decision making. Both systems were ahead of its time.

  • Muninwing

    so FF pulled a GW with GW stuff.

    sucks if you’re a fan. get your copies now…

  • Sebastien Bazinet

    Damn this sucks. Now I need to hurry up and get those Relic expansions, that and Fury of Dracula…

    • Vomkrieg

      Ordered “halls of terra” today 🙂

    • Ragnar Black

      Ahhhh ni Relic expansions…Now I feel even worst. But for me the most pitty is that there won’t be any WH Quest Card Game expansion.

  • rtheom

    Wow, this is bad. I wonder if it was GW or FF that called it off. My money is on GW since FF would only benefit from keeping games they’ve already made around.

    If it is GW, then that’s just dumb. I get that they’re trying to return to the board game market themselves, but they’re never going to be able to even come close to the level of quality that FF did, being completely devoted to stand alone game production.

    Well, time to focus on grabbing up all of those GW FF games I’ve been ignoring before they’re gone and/or millions of dollars on ebay.

    • georgelabour

      Consiering FFG hasn’t released any new RPG products ofr well over a year, and really had just been rehashing things in the last few books I’m more inclinded to beleive they’re the ones who ended it all.

      Much like WOTC and the Star Wars RPG liscence I bet they just didn’t see enough profit in renewing their GW one. Especially when they have other cash cows to milk, and then discard.

      Plus FFG has this history of picking up other company’s products. Squeezing them for some cash, and then dumping them.

      See: Confrontation, At-43, Mutant Chronicles, etc.

      • rtheom

        Hmmm fair enough. I suppose GW may have seen the success of the FF games and decided to up their licensing fee dramatically, which FF certainly wouldn’t have bent to considering Warhammer wasn’t their only major product line. Hmmm…

      • WellSpokenMan

        You made FFG sound so nefarious it made me giggle. Do you feel that GW squeezed and dropped Blood Bowl, Gothic, Epic, Necromunda, Mordheim, or WHFB?

        • georgelabour

          Actually yes. Yes I do.

          I feel the same way about WOTC and their handling of the star wars license as well.

          However they’ve not made a history of mishandling other company’s IP’s the way FFG has.

          Which is why I’ve not invested in any of their miniature games since the mutant chronicles and AT-43 fiascos.

          • WellSpokenMan

            Fair enough, but nearly every Fantasy/Sci-Fi IP has been bungled at some point. It seems to be just part and parcel for the industry. I won’t deny that FFG has a certain swashbuckling style to the way they go about things. This doesn’t seem to be a case of that though. The extent of the properties that FFG has to abandon and GW’s general way of doing things makes me think that this was probably GW playing hardball.

          • Shawn

            Hmmm, I’ve heard of AT-43, but never bought into it. Just looking at the minis it seemed stupid. This is an FFG game? Can you tell me more George?

          • georgelabour

            Much like Dust, Confrontation, Mutant Chronicles, and all these GW products it was a licensed game from another company.

            FFG picked up the distribution rights for the states. Then pushed a lot of stock on stores. After a couple of years they made a lot of promises abouyt upcoming content, followed by huge sales.

            A couple months later they’d stopped supporting the game, hadn’t released a lot of the things they’d promised, and left retailers with a lot of junk for a game they never intended to support in the long run.

            They did that with a few of the other games I mentioned as well, and as you can tell it’s left me a bit leery of the company on the whole.

            It actually wasn’t a bad game either. Much like Confrontation which was done by the same company it was pretty good. Heck it overshadowed 40k in my local group for a while.

          • Zethnar

            “Stopped supporting the product” doesn’t really follow on from “Huge sales”. Do you think it’s possible that there weren’t, in fact, “Huge sales”?

            I have the core set and I don’t recall ever seeing or talking to anyone else who ever bought into the game. I can tell you I’m certainly not going to continue to support a miniatures game I can’t find opponents for.

          • georgelabour

            Huge sales as in they sold product for a big discount. All while promising new content and continued support.

            You know, the things internet know it alls claim is the key to real gaming success, and is the reason GW is the most evil corporation this side of a Gibson novel.

          • Shawn

            Thanks. What company did AT-43? Did the company itself go belly up or refused to produce, or was it FFG lack of interest that killed the game?

          • georgelabour

            Rackham. They also did Confrontation, and an earlier incarnation Dust.

            While they did have their own issues they didn’t go under entirely until well after FFG had pulled their bait and switch tactics multiple times with all those properties.

            Now obviously it’s not all FFG’s fault but they have shown a penchant for doing the same things over and over again with their product lines. So it’s left me a bit leery of the company.

  • I’m really curious to see if GW will try to release products to fill the nitches these FFG products had filled. My overwhelming presumption is that they will not, and that this is a “if I can’t be the only one to make money off this stuff than no one will make money off of it”.

    I’m really tired if gearing about how GW is (please read the quote with a sarcastic voice) “so protective of their IP for licensing”. They aren’t, for the last two years we’ve seen an ever increasing number if crappy digital games based off their IP that obviously weren’t quality controlled at all. This isn’t a move to protect their IP, it’s a move to try and hurt a fast growing and adapting rival.

    The thing is that FFG has already begun to create games which are very close to direct competitors to GW’S main products (look up rune wars). They’ve outgrown the need for GW’s IP in a lot of ways, and they have the license for Star Wars now. That license could also be seen as a liability though as Disney could always decide to pull it.

    What I’m curious to see is over the next year or so is whether if not FFG decides to invest heavily in creating their own sand box universe to build games within. They’ve managed to avoid going this for a long time now, most if their products use licensed IP and aside from netrunner I don’t know of any huge hits since twilight imperium which used their own in house IP.

    I agree that this was inevitable she to GWs increasing nervousness that FFG will outcompete them. After all just because FFG hasn’t made a product line to directly compete with 40k yet doesn’t mean they won’t, hence GW’s nervousness. While it may cause short term pain for FFG we shouldn’t forget that it will ALSO hurt GW. They are losing licensing fees and the free advertising they gained from FFG’s promotion of their products.

    Also one if the biggest strengths of the 40k universe has always been it’s shear scale and scope. The thus choice is SHRINKING the GW universe as now you have 1 way to play in 40k. Want to roleplay in 40k? Nope, sorry there’s now no supported game for you.

    For anyone who thinks that GW will rapidly roll out new products to fill these nitches I agree it’s possible, and makes great sense business wise, but it’s not how they are set up as a company. They don’t have roleplaying game makers working for them. They have no infrastructure to make card games. Doing so requires a rather huge investment and development of whole new departments within the company in a very short time frame.

    We all no GW isn’t a very rapidly adaptive company, but even if they were they would have had to have begun spinning up these departments nearly two years ago to have products ready got market within the next year.

    We know from their financial releases that they haven’t done that, so that means this isn’t a case of them no longer needing FFG to fill up gaps within their product line. This is why u say thus is a choice made primarily to harm a rival rather than benefit GW. the inevitable result if this decision in the short (6-12 months) to medium (12-24 months) term is that GW will make less money.

    Now the positive thing it could do for GW is that it could buy them time to do all those things I mentioned they should do by slowing down FFG’s growth. That will only work though if they start investing big time in building the infrastructure and knowledge base to fill those other nitches. The single biggest sign that they are moving in this direction will be if they buy out a smaller game company. It’s what big corporations do when they need to become more agile.

    In the end I don’t see this harming FFG for more than 6 months as they are such an agile and innovative company. Add to that that they still own all the game systems that had GW’s IP glued to them means that rolling out new product lines will be pretty simple really.

    What do you guys think?

    • WellSpokenMan

      FFG has plenty of options. They can expand an existing IP or license (most likely Star Wars), the can make a new one(the least likely option), or they can buy one. Personally, I’d look into CGL. BattleTech and Shadowrun are both great IPs that are underutilized. Wyrd and Corvus Belli might be interested in card games/board games as well.
      The positive for GW is that they stop helping a competitor. That is all, but with GW’s management getting increasingly defensive in the face of flat sales that is enough.

      • Sythica

        This could also be FFG killing off underperforming product lines. They probably weren’t making that much money off the GW stuff anyway. It will allow them more room to grow other lines, which should be considered a good thing as well.

        • Zethnar

          That doesn’t make a lot of sense. Some of the cancelled games were less than 12 months old (such as the new Fury of Dracula and Warhammer Quest card game). You don’t a lot of effort into new games if you are planning to drop the license. In fact they had GW products in the list to be reprinted as little as a week ago, I really don’t think this is something FFG had in their long-term plan.

      • Richard Mitchell

        If FFG got the BT/Shadowrun license, I would throw a part right now.

        • WellSpokenMan

          Assuming you meant “party,” I would too.

          • euansmith

            I thought it was a cyberpunk thing, “I would throw a part”, like, “I would shed a gear” 😉

        • Vomkrieg

          Unlikely, you’re more likely to see an Android RPG. Shadowrun, even with all the magic, is too close to that home grown IP for them to really get into it.

          • Ragnar Black

            Android RPG would be nice.

          • Vomkrieg

            I wouldn’t say no. This reminds me, I really need to pick up “worlds of android”, it looks very nice

    • Richard Mitchell

      Well true, it has to do more than just with the IP license, it has to do with who has the license to the game mechanics. My bet is that GW owns the license to there IP fluff side, but FFG owns the IP for the actual mechanics.

      • Vomkrieg

        Yep, and FFG have track record for holding the game mechanics and reskinning if they can’t get the IP.

        Rex is the old Dune boardgame reskinned.

    • Admiral Raptor

      Do we know who killed the deal? That would help us determine the motivations behind it.

    • They have kind of competition to 40k.
      The Star Wars tabletops pulled a lot of players from 40k and at least three gaming groups I know completely replaced the 40k Tabletop with the 40k RPGs (mine included).

  • Matt Razincka

    After the announcement of Runewars plus GW focusing more on producing board games, honestly not that surprised.

  • Sythica

    They weren’t really competitors when this agreement began. Now they are very much competitors. It makes sense for both sides to end this agreement, and that’s without access to product line sales figures, or terms of the agreement.

  • RS TROUT

    Good for FFG, but sad for us gamers.

  • Knight

    Does this mean they are no longer producing existing product? So not more batches of the currently released books? When they sell out, they’re out.

    • Boondox

      Yup. Some of the DW RPG books have been “awaiting reprint” since 2013. No chance of getting them now except for Ebay….

      • Ragnar Black

        Yes yes.

  • Xodis

    Does this mean we could possibly get a Star Wars tabletop game (possibly built upon IA) that may rival 40K/AoS? I mean now that they are no longer partners……I dont see FFG not trying to take better advantage of that SW license.

    • Admiral Raptor

      That’s quite an idea! Woe betide GW if they pull it off. FFG already has a Fantasy miniatures game in the works, I’m sure it won’t take them long to get the Star Wars angle going.

      • Xodis

        Exactly, Im not sure how it couldn’t sell.
        If they go the prepainted route with models…..GW is in a lot of trouble.
        If they go the GW route with models….It might not be as successful or it could be explosive.
        If they go the IA route with models…..probably the least successful of ideas, unless those models came with IA rules and IA models also got the wargame rules, then GW is in a lot of trouble again lol.

  • AdeptusAstartes

    Silly GW. Unless they’ve got a secret division of boardgames developers squirreled away in Nottingham that nobody has spotted, then it’s surely better to continue to receive revenue from a segment of the market that you have no current expertise in, than to squander that opportunity. Are they hoping that Lost Patrol will be the springboard to greater things?!?

  • Lhorgrim

    Hate to hear this. I became interested in Only War at Adepticon this year, but the core rulebook has been listed as “out of print” on the FFG website since March. I guess there wont be another print run now.

    • Mira Bella

      You can allways find them online. 🙂

  • Horus84cmd

    *Adopts David Attenborough voice*
    and now…we watch and wait..for the…great internet guessing game on how this parting of ways went down. In this dance of theory and …counter conspiracy, we will have the rare chance to see..the..inanity of the internet in it most graduate of displays.

    We will, likely see, small groups form – know as “fanboys” – taking sides in a war they don’t even realise they are in. We may even have the opportunity to hear the meek cries of the young alongside the brutish rants of the old.

    We must also keep our eyes on the look for the infamous “Troll”. A curious species, that are easily baited and highly aggressive

    • rtheom

      And don’t forget, waiting on the edges, like ravenous scavengers, are those that mock them all for holding intellectual discourse, acting as if they are aloof and above the fray, yet still dramatically curious. They attempt to hide their interest with witty remarks about how all of the other members of this war are pathetic for trying to piece together the reasoning behind the dramatic change in the environment that they’ve just experienced, but they are guilty of the same sins as the rest. A desire to feel meaningful in a forum that does not even consider them human.

      • Horus84cmd

        it seems I may have attracted the attention of one of the, what I think may be, a “Troll”. As this event unfolds I will have to tread carefully…for it..seems…this curious creature..can’t take a joke…and others may be attracted

        • rtheom

          Actually, I believe I am mistaken as I watch the animals of the wild from the sidelines… It turns out that I may actually be the troll… of course, this only makes sense as trolls often do not realize the effects of their own actions, nor can they take jokes very similar to those that they have attempted to craft themselves… What have I become? When will this cycle of madness end?

          • Grasshopper

            What? Why end? I just now got myself popcorn and soda! :'(
            Aww, man.

          • rtheom

            Alas, in the harsh jungles of internet forums, all good things must come to an end. And so, like the setting of the sun, or the parting of mists, we grow tired of our silliness and settle down for a long, 5 minutes rest before heading over to the next comment section.

            Until next time, dear adventurers. :: tips hat and walks into the distance ::

          • Horus84cmd

            it is perhaps a harsh oddity that, like two gorillas in the mist…two innocent… nature observers…can confuse one another for the very precious creatures they are following. Mistaking each other for the very creatures they follow. Alas the vagaries of words are lost in miscommunication, under the constant dull hum of the “fanboys”, before mutual appreciation can be reached. It can be the sad reality of the wide world internet, that, as one watcher walks into the distance, back into the mist, it is only the soft outline of a hat that reveals their true self

          • Grasshopper

            *eats popcorn sobbing*
            “God, I love nature documentraries”
            *munch munch*

          • rtheom

            And the strangest oddity of all is the reality that it was just one observer the entire time… struggling with his own inner truths…

  • blackbloodshaman

    yet another part of gw’s crumbling empire breaks away

    • Anti-Gravity

      Right on cue, blackblood is in a GW article trolling with his terrible anti-GW rhetoric. Wasn’t GW supposed to collapse 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago?

      • Hawt Dawg

        Yup and tomorrow.

  • Krizzab

    sad news, the card games, warhammer and conquest where pretty fun and no very expensive. 🙁

  • Chet Atkinson

    I’m assuming GW will want to carry it on themselves in some form or other. Makes good biz sense

    • dinodoc

      The RPG was originally with them IIRC. I don’t see them having the experience to make the rest of the properties work though.

      • kafkadreams

        They published the first ed Dark Heresy core book (and I think that’s it) which was about as mechanically broken a percentile system as I’ve ever seen. FFG cleaned it up and made it so so much better with 2nd.

    • Crevab

      That’s why I assume GW will just let it die :p

  • Arthfael

    This is sad really. It feels that in recent years a lot of the best material for 40k in terms of background or illustrations has originated from FFG publications.

    • Admiral Raptor

      This, for sure. The Warhammer RPGs were a particular favorite of mine. The IP will suffer without the supporting products.

      • Arthfael

        See, as a 40k player, I don’t understand why people want GW to advance the timeline. Take a single Dark Heresy or Deathwatch book by FFG, they are full of ideas for campaigns, conversions, etc… there’s a whole galaxy out there.

  • silashand

    Effing stupid IYAM. Conquest is one of the best LCGs out there behind Netrunner. The board games are awesome as well. I seriously doubt GW would be able to do anything better than FFG has done with them.

    • Aezeal

      Is it GW’s choice?

      • Gorsameth

        The fact that FFG already sold tournament packs for the next season leads us to believe they wanted to keep going.

        • silashand

          Indeed. I suspect this is entirely GW’s doing. They likely have the notion that products such as Stormcloud Attack are how they will approach that market. Unfortunately most of GW’s recent “board games” are mediocre at best. Sure, they have nice miniatures. But most board gamers want a good game first and nice models second. Somehow I don’t think GW realizes that, but oh well.

          • Ragnar Black

            So true.

          • Not to mention that their board games *start* at 50€, go up to 140€ (165 even if you count Renegade) and are hidden away somewhere on their webpage.
            AND they need extensive assembly before playing.

            Yeah I guess they don’t sell well to people that don’t play GW stuff anyways.

        • Vomkrieg

          Yep, FFG develop those LCGs several cycles in advance. There are probably hundreds of card designs that will never see the light of day now.

  • Anti-Gravity

    Wow, I don’t even play anything from FFG but this is really too bad imo, because I knew the value FFG brought to the lore/background/fluff as I enjoyed a lot of the writing (know nothing of the game, though).

    GW will fill this vacuum with something else. It’ll be interesting, for fans and fluff lovers alike!

  • Simon

    I wonder what this means for GW. Their IP licensing was the saving grace in their yearly financials.

  • dinodoc

    And thus ends my dream of a 40K version of X Wing and Armada.

    • Bryan Ruhe

      Of that system, perhaps. But I’d be shocked if we never see Battlefleet Gothic return.

  • NovaeVox

    I suppose this emphasizes the renewal of the Specialist Games division in GW’s bid for future success in expanding it’s library.

    • Ragnar Black

      In far far horizon.

  • Boondox

    This has taught me a very valuable lesson. Don’t buy GW licensed products from other companies because they never last….

    • Vomkrieg

      Compared to GW games from GW itself which go on forever? Like Necromunda, Man’owar, Warhammer Fantasy Battle etc etc. 😉

      The good thing about most of the games that are discontinued is that they are fine as they are. Chaos in the Old World is a great game and doesn’t need any more parts.

      The LCG is the big one that will annoy people as it just got rolling.

  • Admiral Raptor

    This makes sense with FFG’s coming fantasy battles miniature game. The two companies will be competing far more directly than they have been. It’s a shame that the RPG’s will no longer be supported though, FFG always did a really good job with them.

    I wonder which company pulled the plug?

    • Bryan Ruhe

      Matter of semantics, really, but neither of them “pulled the plug” – the licensing agreement reached its end. Just a question of who wasn’t interested in renewing the contract. Could have been both parties.

      • TheNickelEye

        My guess is that regardless of who “pulled” out, FFG wanted to continue it if they could.

        In just the last year they started a new LCG with WHQ Card game and a new version of Fury of Dracula. They also had already taken money for Q1 2017 tournament support kits from retailers that now need to be refunded.

        If FFG wanted to discontinue the partnership they would have known years ago and not invested in the art assets, rules development and production of games they wouldn’t be able to sell long term. And, they wouldn’t be trying to set up tournaments after the license expired, they would have just let it fade away.

        • Defenestratus

          Eh I disagree. The writing has been on the wall for a while. FFG stopped releasing Conquest packs apparently earlier this year – and Star Wars is both 1) MUCH more profitable IP than GW’s and 2) Working with Lucasfilm/Disney has been 100x easier than working with GW as far as IP is concerned. They basically invented a new ship for the star wars universe that became official canon.

          Basically the GW license was too expensive for what it got FFG and the trouble of dealing with GW’s IP department was very much a sore spot over at FFG from what I’ve heard.

  • Valegorn

    Why, why does GW have to be such a bad company. So many of their decisions lately have been so bat poop crazy and backwards that I just don’t understand it anymore.

    What kills me is I just got into Warhammer Conquest, looks like I need to hurry up and finish my collection before its too late.

  • TheNickelEye

    My half-assed predictions for the future:

    GW will push out Fury of Dracula and Talisman in house with Talisman receiving a AOS makeover like WHQ.

    Card games will be farmed out to the highest bidder with a company like Cryptozoic or IDW where some will lament how much worse they are than the FFG games but defenders will say people are being to harsh. (Maybe even split the IP’s with 40k at one company and WF at another).

    The card game thing will get awkward when Asmodee continues buying the entire industry and ends up with the card license again when they acquire Crytozoic or whomever.

    FFG will adapt and retheme most of the games but few if any will be Star Wars. WHQ card game will come to Terrinoth(Runebound Universe). Forbidden Stars will be converted to their newly acquired Legend of Five Rings universe and Chaos in the Old World will become an Arkham game.

    Or, most likely I will be wrong about all of this.

    • Vomkrieg

      Chaos in the Old World will become an Arkham game.

      Heh, it already kinda is. Cthulhu wars and CITOW are very closely related games.

  • DeadlyYellow

    Oh hey, looks like I made the right call choosing Netrunner over Conquest.

  • Daniel Fox

    ZWEIHÄNDER Grim & Perilous RPG – WFRP’s spiritual successor/retroclone/loveletter/heartbreaker/OSR – lives at GrimandPerilous.com. Call it what you will, but ZWEIHÄNDER will feel familiar to players of WFRP 1e and 2e. We funded over at Kickstarter @$61K, were featured on Forbes.com and are accepting late pledges at CrowdOx until October 31. You can even get a taste of our adaptation of Warhammer 40K in the GM section with our Dark Astral expansion!

    Warhammer’s not dead; it’s world lives on through its fans and it can easily be adapted to ZWEIHÄNDER Grim & Perilous RPG ruleset. Come see what the community is doing over at http://grimandperilous.com/

  • Dennis Finan Jr

    Disk wars actually got me into buying figures. It was a great game. But the figures ad so much more

  • frankelee

    Perhaps GW wishes to bring game production back in-house. That and FFG/Asmodee may wish to crush them.

  • Azrell

    not smart GW, not smart.

  • Marco Marantz

    This is the complete opposite path GW needed to take. FFG should have been brought in to manage game design, not completely cut them out. IMHO FFG was one of the few hopes to fix 40K.

  • MightyOrang

    FFG makes games that people buy. GW made a mistake here.

  • Michael Wells

    All i hear when i read this is, “FFG GW stuff will soon be on sale” They’re going to have stock that they want to get rid of before that date.

  • DJ860

    Pretty bizarre reading all the comments of people saying one company was “helping” the other or that one or the other company is doomed without this.

    It sounds to me like a business partnership that had run its contractual length and one or other party decided it wasn’t in their best interests to continue the partnership.

    I don’t think it needs to be a soap opera.