Night Lords (40k) Raptor Talon Formation

night-lord-horz

Today I bring you a brand new army list for Chaos Marines using the Raptor formation…

Hi everybody it’s your ever friendly Black Blow Fly swinging through your neighborhood again to to spread some mischief and discontent !!! Today I bring you a brand new army list for Chaos Space Marines (CSM) using the Raptor formation… These flying Devils can assault straight out after deep striking which I think has some application.

night-raptors1

I know a lot of people are still unhappy and to each their own but much of this type of feeling stems directly from a sense of false entitlement. CSM have some good things now such as the Cabal which has access to all of the new Space Marine psychic powers and Renegade Knights. Still no Grav or free transports as yet… Me, I’m not holding my breath and I’m more than willing to work with what we’ve got on the table. If you still want one super uber codex I think you’re probably going to be waiting a really long time.

So when I saw the rules for the new Raptor Talon I got all excited about CSM again and decided to build a new army list so I can give a whirl. Is it top tier… Don’t really know and don’t really care to be honest. The Raptor Talon beckons to Night Lords and that’s the theme. Belakor ghosts this warband for whatever reason… Hey that’s how the Dark Master likes to roll. If you don’t like him he could be swapped out for a jump pack Cabal. There’s even some crazy Khorne cultists hiding in a bunker to cheer on all the bad guys too ! If you like to model, convert and paint this could be a really fun project.

pad-night-lords

Night Lords 40k

++ Chaos Space Marines: Crimson Slaughter (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment) (1389) ++

*Units marked as such form the Raptor Formation

 

+ HQ (500) +

Be’lakor, The Dark Master (350) /Warlord

Chaos Lord* (150)
Lightning Claw – Power Fist – Melta Bombs
Mark of Slaanesh – Sigil of Corruption

+ Troops (310) +

Chaos Cultists (75)
9x Cultists – Mark of Khorne – 8x Auto-Pistol – Flamer
Cultist Champion – Auto Pistol

Chaos Space Marines (235)
9x Chaos Space Marines – Missile Launcher – Plasma Gun – 9x Bolt Pistol – 9x Boltgun
Aspiring Champion – Bolt Pistol – Boltgun – Power Axe – Melta Bombs
Chaos Rhino – Combi-Bolter – Dirge Caster – Dozer Blade – Searchlight – Smoke Launchers

+ Fast Attack* (579) +

Raptors (197)
5x Raptor – 5x Bolt Pistol – 5x Close Combat Weapon – 2x Flamer – Icon of Excess – Mark of Slaanesh
Raptor Champion – Combi-Flamer – Melta Bombs – Power Fist

Raptors (207)
5x Raptor – 5x Bolt Pistol – 5x Close Combat Weapon
Icon of Excess – Mark of Slaanesh – 2x Meltagun
Raptor Champion – Combi-Melta – Melta Bombs – Power Fist

Warp Talons (175)
4x Warp Talon – 4x Twin Lightning Claws – Mark of Slaanesh
Warp Talon Champion – Twin Lightning Claws

++ Fortifications and Stronghold Assault (2013) (Fortification Detachment) (80) ++

+ Fortification +

Imperial Bunker – Escape Hatch

++ Chaos Renegade Knights (Chaos RK Forsworn Knight Detachment) (375) ++

+ Lord of War +

Renegade Knight – Avenger Gatling Cannon and Heavy Flamer – Heavy Stubbe – Ion Shield – Reaper Chainsword

1844pts

ImperialKnightsRenegade_ProdSlide

~Give it a chance… CSM are on the rise.

  • Alan Doyle

    ‘If you like to model, convert and paint this could be a really fun project.’ Lets face it, that’s the only reason to collect CSM and Orks this edition.

    Thanks for the interesting list. You had better role well on the reserves. 235pts for a crappy unit make me sad.

    • Wrong

      • Alan Doyle

        Right.

        • So you agree you were wrong.

          • Alan Doyle

            Wrong

          • About time you admitted it.

          • Alan Doyle

            About time you stopped writing terrible articles for BOLS.

    • Andrew Webb

      Another whiner. Any charge from DS is nasty

      • Nubu

        It can be. It is not in this case though. Bad AP, low strength, low number of attacks and low survivability.

        • Andrew Webb

          And that is different to assault marines how?

          • Thomas Gardiner

            Yeah, nobody’s saying Assault Marines are good either.

          • Andrew Webb

            Well they are the DS assault that SM get unless you are Raven Guard and then there is a scout tax

          • Charon

            The difference to assault marines is: they are cheaper, get actually special rules and in the case of the Ravenwing detachment, they do not scatter, can choose the turn in which the come from reserve, and assault from deepstrike without counting as disordered.

            So. That is how it is different.

            And before you start whining about the scout tax: I would love the scout tax as it enables DS without scattering. Unlike this formation that is prone to mishap. If you want to know what an actual tax is: 3×200 points that might never even hit the table.

          • Andrew Webb

            Ah Charun the whiner. Yeah if the scouts evendors last a turn

          • Andrew Webb

            Ah…. Charon the whiner. The scuts will be lucky to last a turn. And I play BA, so I don’t get SM power level formations at all. I can’t see the next book being better than yours. Seriously you are just a whiner that wants a return to push button winning ala Chaos 3.5…..

          • Karru

            Yeah, considering that scouts have so bad saves, especially with Raven Guard. 2+ Cover Save is sooooooooo bad.

            But again, going back to Assault Marines, tell me how are they equal in effectiveness to Raptors or how the Raptor Talon even compares to Skyhammer Annihilation Force?

            Let’s look at some key facts here:

            Raptors cost 17pts a piece and have Fear special rule which in most cases is useless since the most played army in the game is SM and they have ATSKNF.

            Assault Marine is 14pts a piece and have Combat Squads, Chapter Tactics and ATSKNF. 3 points cheaper right out the gate.

            Next up, the formations. Raptor Talon requires you to take at least three units of Raptors and/or Talons + a Chaos Lord. This allows them to Charge on the turn they Deep Strike, but it counts as a Disorganised Charge. Units charged by 2 of the units from this formation suffer -2 to their LD as well.

            A minimum formation without any upgrades costs 350pts. This formation cannot reduce Scatter at all and require an outside source to help with reserve rolls.

            Skyhammer Annihilation Force, 2 units of Assault Marines and 2 units of Devastators in Drop Pods, no more, no less. The formation gives the Assault Marines the ability to use their Jump Packs in both phases, allows them to charge normally when they arrive from Deep Strike and they can re-roll all failed to-hit and to-wound rolls if they charge a unit pinned by the Devastators. The Devastators get Relentless on the turn they arrive and regardless of casualties, the target unit has to take a LD check on 3D6 and if they fail it, they have to go to ground.

            Minimum price for this formations is 350pts. Oh look it’s the same price. Both are now without any upgrades and once those start to pile up, I have a feeling that the Skyhammer ends up cheaper. Also, the Talon now has 4 units, if you count the Lord separate, and the Skyhammer has 6. That’s already an immense advantage. But wait, there is more! Space Marines can infiltrate a unit of Scouts with a Locator Beacon for 60pts close enough to the enemy lines so that the Assault Marines have a guaranteed Turn 1 Charge. Also to add to that, those Assault Marines are getting their bonus attacks, so 15 Attacks compared to the Raptors 11. (Both units are assumed to be only 5 strong at this point.)

            Finally to your lovely comment regarding wanting a “to push button winning 3.5 codex”, I know this will be in vain as you definitely don’t have the required brain power to comprehend it and much rather just base your trolling on bs, but go look at the changes done to CSM throughout the years from 3.5 to the current book. Then compare it to books like Tau, Space Marines and Eldar from similar time to now.

            I did this last night and by the gods it was depressing. People say that CSM players whine because they don’t have the SM tools and their own tools to boot, but if you look the change you realise it is much more.

            CSM is currently the only army that has LOST more than it has gained over the years. When the 4th dropped, here is what we gained/lost

            Gained:

            Huron Blackhearth

            Lost:

            Legion Rules
            God Specific Rules
            Lieutenants
            Mutations
            Greater Daemons (not generic “summonable” as they became in 4th.)
            Daemons (same as above)
            Nurglings
            Daemonic Beasts
            “Basilisk” (This was understandable)
            Mark of the Undivided
            Cultists
            “Dark Apostles”
            God Specific Vehicles
            18 Unique Psychic Powers
            Every single God Specific “Relic” and Wargear
            Chosen “veteran skills”

            Let’s compare that to the change for SM codex from 4th to 5th edition:

            Gained:
            Pedro Kantor
            Vulkan
            Kor’sarro
            Cato Sicarius
            Tellion
            Master of the Forge
            Sternguard and the Special Issue Rounds
            Ironclad Dreadnought
            Legion of the Damned
            Thunderfire Cannon
            Land Raider Redeemer
            Chronus

            Lost:
            Chapter creation
            Tyrannic War Veterans
            Terminator Command Squad
            Wargear (but so did basically everyone when 5th rolled around)

            That’s just comparison between CSM and SM. You can go ahead and be ignorant and scream “CSM PLAYERS ONLY WANT I-WIN-BUTTON 3.5!!” all you want, but the fact still remains that when CSM lost the 3.5 codex, the army as a whole died with it. We lost everything that made us Chaos and now we are nothing more than way worse Space Marines.

          • Pyrrhus of Epirus

            the only time i ever see reference to codex 3.5 is when some clueless non chaos space marine player brings it up when hes losing an argument. Chaos players know its never going to be 3.5 again, but well take atleast being able to play a game with our toys without the result arleady being predetermined as a loss due to a garbage codex.

          • Andrew Webb

            Lol. I remember idiots like you from those days. You whiners are not the only ones with substandard codexes Blood Angels. Tyranids. Dark Eldar. Guard. Orks. But hey, you are a sniveling little brat so no problem

          • Karru

            Even though I know it’s pointless trying to argue with you since as soon as logic and facts get thrown your way, the only way you can react is to ignore them and just go for the insult.

            Blood Angels and Imperial Guard both enjoy from a neat thing called being Imperial. They can ally their problems away. Need good AA? Ally with SM to get a Stalker and if you want to throw in Tigurius to boot! Need heavy hitters? Here is a nice range of Knights to choose from! Need that sweet sweet Grav? I gothu fam, here are some Grav Centurions and I’ll even throw in a Drop Pod just for you!

            Imperial Guard also doesn’t suffer from extreme prices and enjoy from variety of options and ways to deal with problems. They have high Str and AP Large Blast in greater numbers than basically everyone else. They have insane amounts of decent infantry and can buff them further with orders. As someone who has played a lot of Guard, I can say I have literally no problem with them. Thanks to the current “I can just glance everything to death” mentality and thus the lack of heavy AT, my Russes enjoy being nigh indestructible.

            Dark Eldar can work, but they do need a new codex, not just a supplement. I’d prefer if they didn’t get the gutting treatment they got when this one rolled around, instead they should actually get something decent for a change. Orks suffer from being in 7th edition. The army itself isn’t bad but the problem is that the current GW trend is to spread Ignore Cover Saves around like candy and Assaulting being what it is doesn’t help them. This is also something that Dark Eldar suffer from since they lost their lightning fast assault transports thanks to the “you cannot disembark if you move more than 6″ herp derp”.

            Also, as far as I am aware, BA doesn’t suffer from being overpriced. Again, I know this is pointless since you won’t be doing it since it might cause you to realise something and we don’t want you to hurt that single excuse for a braincell in between your ears, but compare your BA units to SM units and tell me the price difference. All you lack is the latest weapons and tools that SM got and the chances are that you are getting them with this supplement. The only difference I was able to find was the Assault Marine costing 3 points more than the SM ones. It must be hard, considering that we CSM players have it soooooo much better since our Raptors cost the exact same but don’t have Furious Charge, ATSKNF and Combat Squads which everyone knows is 10x times better than what out get since we have Fear and Champion Tax!

            All of the stat issues (Scouts and Dreadnoughts) got fixed in the FAQ’s which means that the only thing needed by BA is to get the new toys. Centurions and Grav, which once again are most likely coming with this release.

            So, let’s recap real quick, BA has access to the entire Imperial arsenal thanks to being BB with everyone. They are getting 2 Detachments, new Relics, updated rules and new Dataslates. CSM players are just whining because they don’t know the real pain of suffering from a substandard codex like the Blood Angels so they are not allowed to complain. After years of painful suffering and constant CSM releases we are finally seeing something for Space Marines which isn’t super bad and then BA might have a chance to be even useful! Good for BA players, it’s good that CSM players finally get to see how it feels to be ignored! But hey, we are just snivelling little brats so no problem.

            I’m sure I’m getting your message correct right? If not, then please go ahead and use your wide vocabulary of 20 words that mostly consists of insults and enlighten me.

          • Andrew Webb

            Funny. I have to ally to get useful units. Serously crybaby… you can ally BB with Daemons and KDK. 2++ re rollabe invulnerable saves. Mass Daemon summoning. Greater Daemons. Blood tithe. You can play allies too. Now let me guess…. your whiney reply will be “but then my army isn’t CSM!!!!” Well guess what, allying in everything you need from other imperial armies means you end up not playing BA any more.

          • Karru

            Well, I’m mostly referring to the fact that why should I play CSM if I can just go full Daemons and do everything better. The difference between BA and CSM allying is quite big. BA doesn’t need allies to be effective, they have Sternguard for every battlefield role outside AA. Only thing you need to ally for is AA and the best part about that is that you can take maybe a Techmarine and a unit of Scouts and you BA army doesn’t seem odd since in a logical situation a Stalker wouldn’t look weird in the army. KDK armies never include CSM units outside Dinos/Heldrakes which is why they are so effective. So the difference between CSM and BA is that in order to ally away our weaknesses we have to remove all Chaos Space Marines, the actual model named Chaos Space Marine mind you, out of our army and replace them with Daemons, since they are so much better. How is that the same?

          • Andrew Webb

            Why take BA sternguard when SM ones have far better chapter tactics? Why take BA vanguard vets when SM ones get their power weapons for 1/3 of the cost and get chapter tactics. Why take BA devastators when SM ones get grav and cheaper weapons options. Etc etc etc. It seems you have a very very poor understanding of how bad the current BA codex is.

          • Karru

            And judging your other comment regarding “taken away”, you suffer from the same lack of understanding. Go and read the list of stuff taken away from CSM codex when 4th edition dropped. You think BA is anywhere near comparable? Also, the difference is that your units might be slightly more expensive but it still doesn’t change the fact that they are effective in what they do. Sternguard still have their Special Issue Rounds and Grav. Vanguard is still useless, even in the SM codex since they are an Assault unit. I’d say that the chances are your Devastators are getting the Grav Cannon in this release.

            SM book is what it is, but your army is still BA. Would you prefer to be rolled into it like Black Templars did? Would that make you happy?

          • Andrew Webb

            Listen. You have a singular lack of understanding of how much got taken away from BA since 2ed. You are a hypocrite. First you say BA are no more expensive than SM and now it is “slightly more expensive” well idiot, simple maths for you. 15 points for a power weapon instead of 5 is not “slightly” nore is 25 for a power fist instead of 10. Nor is 30 for a thunder hammer instead of 15. Then the SM ones get to charge from DS with formation benefits.

          • Karru

            Care to give me a list of what BA lost? Remember, only what they actually lost. Then make a list what they gained. I’ll wait for you to enlighten me.

          • Alan Doyle

            Boo-hoo what a cry-baby, whingy whiner!

          • Andrew Webb

            Also CSM complain about all the things “taken away”. Well you are not alone there. BA get to see unique equipment and units given to other codexes in improved form

          • Indeed

          • Wa Bell

            Instead of trying to convince him how good his Meh core book is, why not offer strategies for how to use them better.

          • euansmith

            Off topic, do Chaos Space Marines get Scouts? I don’t remember them being an option back when I used to play, which is a shame, because they could be a great conversion project.

          • Karru

            Not in anyway, this has never been the case. There is no unit in the CSM book that even has the Scout special rule and there are no units that get something that assists Deep Strike units.

          • Charon

            Nope. No CSM scouts.

          • Nubu

            Other than assault marines having better gear that makes them an actual threat and survivability? Not much.

          • Andrew Webb

            Better gear? Like plasma pistols and flamers?

          • Nubu

            Huge chainswords and so on.

          • Andrew Webb

            What? The two handed unwieldy evicerator? Well my assault squads don’t get them.

          • Nubu

            Too bad.

          • Andrew Webb

            See that’s the thing that is funny. Plenty of other armies are as bad or worse than CSM. But CSM players are the biggest whiners.

          • Karru

            Only army that has it worse is Tyranids. They don’t enjoy from things like Allies. Most of the book consists of useless units thanks to the glorious 7th edition. I won’t even mention Sisters since they are literally just waiting for that nice bolter round to the back of the head behind the shack next to the squats.

            I posted a nice long comment regarding CSM and the changes from 3.5 to 4th edition and compared it to SM from 4th to 5th. I’m sure you ignored it since having to read more than two sentences causes immense problems for the singular brain cell between your ears. But please, go ahead and keep calling CSM players whiners.

          • Don’t troll

          • Fail

          • Nubu

            Care to elaborate?

    • Jared van Kell

      I disagree. I have the same such unit in my army and it performs its role well which is to seize/contest objectives and soften up other units for a charge by my assault elements.

      • Karru

        Indeed, I’ve seen units of 10 CSM squads wreck people, maybe it has something to do with the mind set that they are absolute garbage. The fact that they can take 2 Special Weapons in a 10-man squad is a real winner in my book.

        • Jared van Kell

          Indeed, the ability to take two special weapons is one that is underrated and often overlooked when considering the value of normal Chaos Spacemarines. They also get to take icons and marks of chaos as well.
          Whilst this can make the unit expensive, it means you can tailor the unit to any role.

          • Karru

            The Icons and Marks barely give CSM squads any benefits that they need. Slaanesh and Khorne are mostly useless on them, since you are better off with the Cult Marines. Nurgle is the same deal and Tzeentch is just plain useless for them. It’s lot better to take them undivided.

          • Jared van Kell

            I know that unit of CSM with I5 or extra attacks regardless of whether you charge or are being charged, especially when playing the likes of Spacemarines and Eldar, is not to be sniffed at. The Mark of Tzeentch can be useful but it is situational and requires something that grants an invulnerable save to begin with to get the most out of it. The Mark of Nurgle is highly underrated, I have won games thanks to my opponent now having to wound my 10 Chaos Spacemarines on a 5+ instead of a 4+, a fact compounded by them being Fearless due to the Icon of Vengeance.

          • Karru

            The only issue I have with your reasoning for Mark of Nurgle is that Plague Marines are so much better survivability wise. A unit of 10 CSM is 195pts with Mark of Nurgle and the Icon of Vengeance. A unit of 10 Plague Marines is 240pts, so for 45pts more I get Feel No Pain, Blight Grenades and Plague Knife. I won’t be losing the Fearless as well if someone happens to get a lucky Precision Shot. Most of the Marks are “useless” on basic CSM squad thanks to the Cult Marines, since the relatively few extra points you spent on taking them over a regular marine with a Mark is worth it.

    • Stealthbadger

      Orks are not that bad, perfectly playable. Going to win In tournaments? Probably hard. In a normal game? They do just fine.

      • Karru

        Indeed, the problem with most complainers is that they don’t see the game from casual point of view AKA the most played version of the game. Even if I won’t be winning the game, I’m usually still having fun. I started my Orks a while back and have yet to regret it, since they are very fun to play thanks to the variety of options they have.

  • Ryan Freivalds

    Wait, can you really have the Chaos Lord of the Raptor Formation be the HQ in a combined arms detachment? I didn’t think formations worked like that.

    • Shawn

      Normally, it doesn’t work. However, I know from C:SM that the Gladius Strike Force and the Fist of Medusa Strike Force from Angels of Death allow a model to belong to multiple detachments that form that formation. it’s possible that CSM got something similar in Traitor’s Hate.

      • Ryan Freivalds

        “Although units cannot normally belong to more than one Detachment, units from a Formation that is part of a Black Crusade Detachment are an exception.”
        And you’d think that would seem to make it okay, until the ext sentence says “They count as part of both their Formation and the Detachment…” which just seems like the normal Detachment-of-Formations deal.
        Or am I missing something?

        • foulestfeesh13 .

          No the Chaos Lord can’t be part of a combined arms detachment and the Raptor formation. It’s just a very bad way of writing out a list so it looks like he’s part of both.

          • The Lord and Fast Attack form up the formation not actually part of the CAD… Shorthand notation… Don’t have a cow.

        • Andrew Thomas

          Their combat role doesn’t change, but they do remain separate.

    • Jeramy Bailey

      It’s the body spray scent.

  • Boondox

    Is there really a weapon in the CSM armory called a “Boltgun Poser Axe”?

    • Wayne Molina

      Pretty sure that is meant to be “Boltgun – Power Axe” but a Boltgun Poser Axe sounds like something for the Slaaneshi guys.

      • Sure

        I’m holding out for the Boltgun Poser Axe. Don’t ruin my dreams.

    • silver843

      Trendy Night Lord only kills you with weapons you have never heard of before.

    • Fixed.

      • euansmith

        Aw… 🙁

    • euansmith

      There is now.

  • Wayne Molina

    So let’s see… named daemon prince as Warlord, Renegade Knight… what makes this a Night Lords force exactly? Okay the Raptors are cool, that makes sense. There’s a CSM squad, cultists can still work (frothing murderers, that’s right up the Night Lord’s alley), there’s a bunker but fluffwise the Night Lords jumped in and took it over, so that makes a bit of sense I guess. Even the Knight can work because those guys are likely as power-hungry and (Chaos ones anyways) as cold-blooded killer as the Night Lords themselves, could see that alliance happening.

    Eh, I’ve seen worse. It looks fun, at any rate, but taking a Daemon Prince in a legion known for essentially flipping the bird (or should that be bat?) to Chaos in general is about as bad as taking Slaanesh/Khorne or Tzeentch/Nurgle together. The rest doesn’t look that bad, honestly. I’d play it.

    • Ian Bush

      The 10th company in the Night Lords trilogy was lead by a daemon prince (or possessed, it’s not really hashed out), but despised by his subordinates for becoming one.

      • Wayne Molina

        That… makes a lot of sense, can see them calling him a sellout etc. for doing it.

    • You can swap the prince for jump pack Cabal… Potentially better army.

  • Zingbaby

    I’d swap out Be’lakor but otherwise try this list. The book is good. Some of the expectations here were quite unreasonable I think, so far it’s one of the biggest ‘Supplement’ ruleset updates we’ve seen.

    • Nubu

      It’s good for something but thus far nobody has been able to point out what that something is. Do you know what it’s good for?

    • Spacefrisian

      I think i would like some dirge Rhinos in it as well, LOS block and overwatch prevention.

  • Painjunky

    Way to go BBF!
    Keep polishing that turd!

  • Hunlow

    Can someone please get the Dimensional key to work with the Cabal geomancy powers and then have like 2 raptor talons drop in. That would be my chaos dream.

    • Nubu

      Insert key to killy lord, insert a dog+sorcerer+electrodisplacement-combo. Scout, move, successfully cast electrodisplacement, charge, kill something with the lord, survive. The last part is tricky.

    • Charon

      If you got the cabal and the geomancy erm… geomortis power you dont need the raptors anymore.

      Oh look I moved my lord with the useless item up front so he has a chance of a turn 2 activations so my raptors can mybe come down (If i get the reserve roll) and do an disordered assault with 2 attacks on your unit!

      vs

      Oh look I moved my Juggerlord and 5 posessed up and assaulted your unit with way too may attacks for you to survive. Look… first blood and Bloodtithe points.

      The second option is not only easier and cheaper but also way more effective.

      • Hunlow

        Well yeah it’s not the most effective piece of wargear but I’ve wanted to see that stupid key in a list for forever. Now that turn 1 charges are a thing I think it could be goodor at least really silly and the raptor talon seems like a good fit with it. Think of all the 1 inch charges with HoW from their jet packs!

        So yeah I get its not the best but this is CSM and if you’re still playing with them then clearly your motivations aren’t WAAC attitude.

  • Blight

    You talked about beating tau and eldar recently.
    Would actually be interested in hearing about that. Was it using the new formations? What kind of list did they use? Tactics used by you?
    I’m a CSM player myself and I see potential in this release. Tried out the formations at least. Barely won my game against a combined Imp guard (super artillery formation ) and space marine army. The raptors won me the game in the end by taking the fight to his guns but they came in bits and pieces thanks to poor reserves. My warband faired poorly in the time it took them to wait for the drop troops. Won by linebreaker in the end.

    • Versus Eldar deep strike units took out the jetbikes… Got luck… WK charged into cover vs my Knight and I rolled a 6 to wound swinging first in melee. Some of the warp spiders got to close to the bunker and got mulched by the cultists of all things… Bit of luck there.

      Versus tau hid most of the game and beat them on objectives.

      • Nubu

        That is not a “bit” of luck. That’s godly luck combined with opponents that had less than good understanding of tactics.

        • They were both very hard fought games yet you dismiss them out of hand. Did my opponents have some luck too – most certainly.

          • Nubu

            it’s an uphill battle, no news there. That being said your eldar opponet threw away his(her?) WK and you just happened to throw a 6 against it. Your tmtau opponent did not go for objectives in a game of points.

            I’m not dismissing your victories. I’m saying that you did not win because you had a playable force. You won because your opponents failed epicly and you got very, very lucky.

          • But that’s just your opinion

  • 40k… *sigh*… I really don’t like all these lists which include an Imperial Knight and fortifications. Really, who brings his bunker to a battle? I like the 40k of old where bunkers were just terrain somewere in the middle of the board and not something you bought and put up to your own benefit where you need it the most during deployment… Does a thunderhawk come down and drop the stuff or what? Meh.

    • Find a time machine… Go back and play 4th edition. 😒

      • Nobody else does, so I’d indeed need a time machine. Besides, 7th is quite good. Except Knights are everywhere (aren’t there other lords of war to pick instead?) and those fortifications…

      • Admiral Raptor

        When 40k was popular and fun? Sign me up! Although my time machine’s at the shop, so I may have to borrow yours.

  • Nubu

    I don’t want to be a nitpicker here but nothing in this list is night lordish than the 3 over priced squads in the raptor formation.

    • Andrew Webb

      Funny. I don’t recall the night lords being restricted to only jump pack troops any more than Blood Angels are.

      • Nubu

        They are not. If there is a point you wanted to make I missed it.

        • That’s your problem

          • Nubu

            Not really a problem. I wish my life was so easy as it would have to be for me to see this as a problem.

    • Karru

      Considering that the last time I read about Night Lords, they were all about lightning fast terror tactics, which is why they are known for their Raptors, it is quite strange to see things like fortifications and lumbering Imperial Knights in the army. Also for a Legion that doesn’t like Daemons, that Be’lakor seems a bit odd fit. It’s almost as if the author missed the entire point of Night Lords.

  • Painjunky

    Whats the SM formation that can DS and charge? Skyhammer something something?
    Is this not just the slow, ugly, dumb step brother of that?
    You know, like everything CSM when compared to SM.

  • Fukushim

    Here’s my take on it:
    Crusade Detachment:
    The Lost and the Damned:305
    Dark Apostle 105
    10 Cultists 50
    10 Cultists 50
    10 Cultists 50
    10 Cultists 50

    Aux1: Raptor Talon:545
    Chaos Lord; murder sword, combi-meltagun, jump pack, sigil of corruption 135
    5 Warp Talons 160
    5 Raptors; 2 meltaguns, combi-meltagun 125
    5 Raptors; 2 meltaguns, combi-meltagun 125

    Aux2: Raptor Talon:660
    Chaos Lord; power fist, burning brand of Skalatrax, jump pack, sigil of corruption 145
    5 Warp Talons 160
    5 Raptors; 2 meltaguns, combi-meltagun 125
    5 Raptors; 2 flamers, combi-meltagun 115
    5 Raptors; 2 flamers, combi-meltagun 115

    Heldrake Terror Pack:340
    Heldrake; baleflamer 170
    Heldrake; hades autocannon 170

    Essentialy it’s “make sure cultists survive the first turn, maybe deploy some of the raptors on the board” then”wreak havoc on turn two”. Bonus points for charging a unit which failed invisibility 😀

    • Karru

      My only problem with that list is the “make cultists survive the first turn” part. Unless the board involves some major LoS blocking terrain like a giant building without windows, those cultists aren’t going to see the second turn. 40 Cultists die about as easily as an ant when facing a flame-thrower.

      But compared to the list in the article? I’d much rather play this one since it makes a thousand times more sense than the 2 knights and fortification deal. I’d drop one of those Raptor units and all the Combi-weapons to either increase the size of the Cultist units for survivability or make a 10 man unit for one the Lords. It will be risky to drop that 10 man unit anywhere, but the damage would be something to behold. I’d also maybe include the Mark of Slaanesh for the Lord and pretend it marks the skill in combat more than the actual dedication to a specific god. That’s how I mostly use them for, since the benefit doesn’t really fit the God.

      • Andrew Webb

        Good luck killing 40 conga line cultists with a flame thrower in one turn…..

        • Karru

          I didn’t mean that you kill the Cultists with a flame-thrower. You kill them with everything else. Drop Pod with 10 Sternguard, combat squad, pretty much two dead units or at least they ran away. If the Cultists are placed in a way that they all get the “Demagogue” Special Rule from the Dark Apostle, it will be even easier to achieve.

          That doesn’t of course include things like Thunderfire Cannons, other Drop Pod units, Skyhammer Annihilation Force and everything else from the SM book. Against Tau you have the problem with the high amount of Ignore Cover Save shots and long range fire power. Eldar just laughs as the Jetbikes slaughter them or just see as rows of cultists die to Serpent Shields.

          I wasn’t bashing the list per say, I was just thought that the risk might be too big and the chances of surviving to turn 2 with that army is slim as it stands. That’s why I suggested on larger units, that way you also get more out the formation special rule!

      • Nathaniel Wright

        If your board isn’t set up with major LoS blocking terrain then you’re doing it wrong. God damned lazy tournament officials.

        • euansmith

          Yeah, 25% of the board should be covered in terrain. I’d expect half of the that to LoS blocking.

          • Karru

            Exactly, but there are still units that can get around the board fast and pick a few casualties. Then there are the Drop Pods and Barrage Weapons.

    • Admiral Raptor

      Much better list than the one presented by the author. This list says Night Lords loud and clear!

    • Nice !

  • euansmith

    Cultists, “Khorne! Khorne! Khorne! Khorne”

    Raptor “When are you thinking of telling them this is a Slaanesh Force?”

    Champion, “I was going to save that for the after party.”

    • Wayne Molina

      That is one thing I really hate to see. People saying they’re using a legion Army and taking marks all over the place. Especially when it’s a legion known for not dealing with the chaos gods. Pretending that taking the mark mean something else does not and never has set well with me

  • Jared van Kell

    I have to say that I like the list. It may not be the most powerful list out there but it is fun and most importantly it is how you want it. Ignore the whiners, play the army how you want and make sure to obey the first rule of gaming while you play…

    ….. Which is to have fun.

    Oh and I love the fact that you are using a renegade knights. I have one with two Avenger gatling cannons and a Stormspear rocket pod that I call the Reaper because it just scythes down units.

  • SYSTem050

    Gotta love blow back fly’s and goat boy approach to new formation’s. “this would go nicely with a imperial/renegade knight(or two)”

    • Painjunky

      Don’t forget belakor and psychic spam coven.

  • Admiral Raptor

    What an amazing thematic force. I’ve always loved the Night Lord’s affinity for bunkers and titans, and mark of Khorne cultists in an otherwise Slannesh marked army is icing on the cake!

    Boy oh boy! How could someone pass up the opportunity to run such a fun fluffly list?

    • Wayne Molina

      Precisely. I guess the common approach is to take a mark and then say it represents something else fluff wise. That just feels like playing against the spirit of the game to me but then again the type of articles on this site probably know nothing about the spirit of the game

  • Andrew Thomas

    Sticking with my Homebrew, because GW has lost it’s mind.

  • Andrew Webb

    Charon the boy fiddler. 2+ cover save? Yeah very helpful with so much ignores cover out there. Necrons, Tau. Eldar for that matter. But hey. You are the deep sea diver of players. At the bottom of the Marianas trench as we can see.

    • Charon

      Eldar? Much ignore cover? What are you smoking?
      You realize that the Nightspinner is a good vehicle just because it is one of the few sources for Eldar that provide ignore cover?
      Crons? Ignore cover much? Really?
      The only thing from your list that actually has a decent amount of ignore cover are tau. Congratulaions you found an army out of 20 that actually provides has little trouble with 2+ cover.
      So go back under your bridge.
      Again baeless claims and personal insults. Stay classy baddie.

      • Andrew Webb

        Most Necron players have hordes of tombblades. Guess you don’t play them much. But hey. You are too busy whining to play I suspect.

        • Charon

          “Hordes”
          On average you need 10 Tomb blades to get rid of 5 scouts turn 1 (you need to get rid of them turn 1 or they already did their job). If the scouts happen to go first, you cant even do anything to them before they deliver.
          Thats 220 points out to hunt 55. Good deal. Very good deal. Prevents them from shooting at anything of value.
          And even then. Learn to deploy properly.
          You place them AFTER the tomb blades, you have infiltration AND scout. It is terribly easy to place them properly.
          I know your gaming skills are lacking but you are getting ridiculous.
          Stop making a fool out of yourself by calling a mechanic bad because a unit can possibly be killed. Every unit can be killed somehow. Even a Wraithknight. That does not make him bad “because there are tons and tons of D weapons around”
          Get good.

          • Karru

            Dude, it’s no use trying to argue with him. When you give him facts, he just says some random BS and say you are just a pathetic whiner who knows nothing about pain like he does. I mean, I asked him to give me a list of stuff BA lost since 2nd edition and he got overwhelmed since he realised that it was nothing compared to CSM and decided to ignore it. The slim chance is that BOLS isn’t letting the message trough.

          • Charon

            the pigeon/chess comparison springs to mind.

  • Gian Carlo Peirce

    Mark of Slaanesh for a unit with no assault grenades?