Traitors Hate – Maelstrom of Gore Review

khorne berzerker

Howdy Heretics! It’s time to see if the latest Chaos Marine formation has what it takes! Today we talk Maelstrom Of Gore.

Dean from Blog for The Blood God here with a new weekly review / Tactical article series for the formations found in the new Traitors Hate Chaos Space Marine Suppliment!

If you have any ideas / tactics you wish to contribute / discuss head over to my Facebook Page and shoot me a message! Without further adue lets get into the first installment!




1 Chaos lord or Kharn the Betrayer

4-8 units of Khorne Berzerkers


Blood Crazed: Fleet + 3″ to all charge rolls

Red Rain: one use only, used in movement phase and all units already locked in combat can make a round of attacks immediately.



First lets discuss the units, what to take and how to equip them. So your first choice is Kharn or a Chaos Lord, in my opinion if you can afford him take Kharn, he is an absolute beast in combat which is hard for a Chaos Lord to match. If you spend lots of points on a Chaos Lord he will end up more expensive and likely worse than Kharn. Save the Chaos Lord as your budget option and only use him if you cannot afford Kharn.

Then you must decide how many Berzerker units you want and how many models per unit. Personally I would not take more than 4 units. Berzerkers have a limited battlefield role due to their low AP weapons, limited anti tank options and lack of shooting. I would give each Skull Champion a powerfist OR melta bombs in case you get stuck in combat with a walker. Keep units small enough to fit in a transport and if you can, give them a Land Raider or two to prevent them from going splat turn 1 from a Battle Cannon.

Another funky trick you can do is give them Dedicated Transport Rhinos with Dirge Casters, use the Land Raiders to transport your Berzerkers and the Rhinos move flat out to screen the Land Raiders and deny overwatch


So is this formation good? Hell Yes! Is it over powered or game changing? Not at all. Giving Berzerkers fleet and +3 to charge makes them significantly more likely to make it to combat, here is a breakdown of the units approximate chances of making a charge at any given distance:

Factoring in 2D6 with Fleet and the +3 charge

5″: 100%
6″: 99.3%
7″: 97.9%
8″: 95.8%
9″: 90.2%
10″: 81.2%
11″: 68.7%
12″: 54.1%
13″: 37.4%
14″: 18.6%
15″: 6.1%

Combine this with 6″ Land Raider movement and 6″disembark you have a decent chance of getting a first turn charge if your opponent deploys on the front line. Here is a little trick to ensure they do…

Objective placement is a HUGE part of making this formation work, place the markers 3″ out of the deployment zone, this way if your opponent wishes to hold it turn 1 he MUST deploy right on the line. Giving you that highly important turn 1 charge!

Now! That covers the Blood Crazed rule, now lets discuss the brutality that the Red Rain brings! Basically at the start of your movement phase you can declare the Red Rain is here, you then immediately make a round of close combat attacks with all units that are currently engaged in combat! This can work both FOR and AGAINST you so be very careful when using this.

As most combat players know you want to try to kill your opponent in THIER assault phase, this frees you up to move and launch another charge in your turn. Using this ability could result in you killing your opponent in your turn and then being left out in the open to be shot at. This is also why I recommend smaller units.

The other thing to consider is that if you use this ability to destroy a unit in your movement phase you are free to move and then declare a charge in your next assault phase, so 1 unit of Berzerkers could potentially destroy 2 enemy units in combat in one turn! It has a pretty large threat area too as you get D6 consolidation off the first unit you destroy then 6″ move, then 2D6+3 charge into the next unit giving you a possible 27″ bubble of bloodsoaked fury!

Strangely enough there is a lot of finesse to this formation, knowing when to “do a raindance” will require lots of practice and planning. But this can be absolutely brutal.



This formation, as with all formations has some glaring weaknesses. Very little Ap2 (which is why I reccomend Kharn and Powerfists on Champions). It is also very costly, especially if you pair it with another detachment to gain access to Land Raiders. It has zero anti air capacity and a single dreadnought will walk through it laughing. I would suggest combining this with any number of other formations, the Fist Of Chaos is your best way to access Land Raiders for your Berzerkers, an allied Gorepack is a good way to get some more MSU fast combat units and cheap access to Melta Guns on the bikes. Alternatively you could take a Combined Arms Detachment from Chaos Space Marines to get up to 3 Land Raiders as well as access to Terminators, Heldrakes and the like

And as always the Cyclopia Cabal would pair well and possibly give the Berzerkers some psychic boosts, just keep the Sorcerers unmakred and prepare for people to have a sook about the fluff.


So what are your thoughts on this formation? Have I missed any fantastic uses? How would you equip them an what tactics would you use? Chuck some comments below or join the conversation on Facebook.

~Lets show the false emperors lackies what the power of chaos can do!

-Dean Sinnbeck

  • Aezeal

    “This can work both FOR and AGAINST you so be very careful when using this”
    How does it work against you?

    • Nubu

      That depends on the target.

    • Charon

      Red rain works against you if you want to end the combat in HIS turn and have to activate it in your turn.
      You basically want to assault -> draw (or little damage so the opponents tays) -> next player -> Rain -> attack -> destroy -> consolidate -> your turn -> move -> assault

      As you can activate the rain only in your turn this is not gonna happen as you have to be locked already in combat (for full 2 subphases, which is pretty long for a dedicated assault unit) and then you might win the combat in your turn… which means you are in midst of the enemy army now and their turn starts.
      You dont want to get shot in between. Red rain makes sure you will get shot.

      • euansmith

        Consolidate in to combat would like it would have been a more useful ability.

        • Charon

          Only as a one use ability. Previous editions have proven that consolidate into new combats over and over is toxic.

          • Blight

            I don’t know if it’s that bad anymore considering overwatch is very much a thing.

          • Charon

            10 MEQ at overwatch will cause around 0,5 wounds, if it is not Tau or the attacker is some GEQ overwatch is not terribly useful.
            Also they would have to reword it as consolidation is no delared assault.

          • Blight

            Well between overwatch (tau, dark angels, and flamers are all good protection) and only consolidating d6 I don’t imagine it will be too strong unless your opponent seriously failed at positioning.

          • Charon

            It is as always. Armies like space Wolves with strong melee units themselves do not fear the tickling of the berzerkers anyways.
            Armies that are easily swiped in melee are most of the time also armies that like to castle up. So yes an elite army would have been guilty of bad positioning (but the berzerkers should not even be able to beat them in melee anyways) a hord army doesn’t have this luxus.

          • AmasNagol

            Dirge Casters are also a thing

          • Djbz

            I keep hearing that, but I honestly cannot recall it ever actually happening in any game I played while it was possible…

          • Charon

            Talk to IG players in 3rd who played against BA rhino rush armies.
            Assault -> eat through the army without ever getting shot at (also remember that consolidation was different).
            They changed it in 4th (?) so you could still shoot them for one round despite them beeing in a new combat already.

          • Pyrrhus of Epirus

            I played tons of games where melee units got first turn charges and bounced from one combat to the next the entire game. It made for garbage games and had it stayed, i wouldnt be playing or commenting on this game today.

            anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.

          • Muninwing

            see, i’d love to get rid of any rule giving assault on the turn a unit comes in. that would include turn 1, deepstrike, flyers, infiltrators, etc.

            i’d also love to see a D6 roll to try to consolidate into a combat. not a full charge, not a separate move. just a D6. a slight advantage, not reliable, but enough to affect situationally.

            heavy-assault armies could try to exploit it at potential cost. it might not become an issue regularly, or unless you get lucky.

          • Muninwing

            see, i don’t agree. it’s only bad for people who aren’t very mindful of where their units are. or for people who play defensively, hunkering down where they can get chain-charged into.

            on the other hand, especially with overwatch being a nettling in the side of combat armies, what used to be “sweeping advance” would actually do wonders to resurrect the weak-outside-of-combat units (think DE Wyches) and force an opponent to react to them and play differently. it would add variance and consequence, which would broaden the game.

            and, with marines being only so-so in CC, other armies would get benefits and it would shift balance. not as much a real solution (fixing their points and rules), but enough to be interesting.

          • Charon

            All it really would do is promote beatstick units even more. Wyches are not only bad because of overwatch, they are bad because they wont kill anything with the S3 attacks. 10 Assaulting Wyches (you dont get more into a raider, which you need) will do 1,6 unsaved wounds to MEQ. That is hardly enough to do anything. The MEQ will probably even kill the same amount of wyches.

          • Muninwing

            that’s not all the unit needs… but it would be a necessary start. only having armor in cc means they’re just never going to be effective until they can avoid or override shooting.

            but yeah, the idea of throwing some power options to deal with MEQ, or some specialized weapons to deal with armor, would not be too out of hand either.

            i’d love for the Sgt to have the weapon equivalent of grav, and more members of the squad need more varied and more effective special weapons to deal with their actual opponents.

            but that would take a competent rehaul, so no time soon…

          • Charon

            Actually giving all that mandatory champs out for free would be a good step. You could even go further and give them free equipment. That way the forced challenges are not too terrible and champions are no longer just a tax.

      • Daniel Grundy

        Nope I don’t see how red rain can work against you. If you kill them in the red rain you get full move and charge which from the middle of the board should be fine for new targets. If somehow you’re more than about 18 inches away from any enemy after red rain something odd has happened or you’ve slaughtered most of the opposition anyway. The only way I can see it being an issue is if they get a charge on you and the bezerkers don’t wipe them with red rain but do so in your assult phase or if your luck truly sucks and the opponent survived 3 combats including the red rain and then you kill them in your turn.
        Timing will be critical but you don’t have to use it turn 2 if the risk is too high. Also the odds of all units using the rule getting screwed by it is incredibly low. Depending on circumstances you may sacrifice one unit to enemy shooting if the other 3 get to make new assults.

        • Charon

          When should that happen? Once in a blue moon? To activate it you have tbe be already locked int he same combat for a full round. If you did not destroy your opponent after assaulting and fighting another player turn, why do you think the third time will be the charm?
          The best case is actually GETTING charged as you might get some damage in in his turn and then activate to get rid of him in your turn before you move.

  • petrow84

    ” a single dreadnought will walk through it laughing”
    Well, the Dreadnought will not laugh for a minute when meeting with Kharn… 7 attacks on the charge with AP2 S7 Armourbane – nearly any dread will be as good as dead, before could even swing its weapons.

    • Charon

      You have one kharn, for the price of the formation (minimum + kharn) I get 6 dreads. He can’t be everywhere.

      • LordRao

        Wait, are we now suggesting that Dreds are good in melee? Or at anything, really?

        • Charon

          They are pretty damn good against anything that cant harm them and is not allowed to run away due to fearless.
          Thats why he used the dread example as in “a single dreadnought will walk through it laughing”
          You can also pick Maulerfiend, Wraithlord, Wriathknight, Imperial knight,… or whatever can’t be wounded in melee by them.

          • ZeeLobby

            Lol. Yup. Let’s see this formation chew through those imperial knights you see on every table.

        • John Barber

          Dreads now have 4 attacks base… So yeah, pretty damn decent in melee. Especially if you play the ‘official’ unofficial rule that you can only use one grenade in close combat.

      • petrow84

        Erm, yeah, but the 6 dread will have to face against 4-5 units, so it’s kinda a tarpit for them.
        Not to forget, his comrades can still pack frag grenades in every turn (provided, it’s not an Ironclad), which gives them some chance of grinding down the HP from the dreadnought. I know, FAQ might change it, but it’s not released yet.

        • Haighus

          Since Dreads had their base attacks upgraded to 4 they have become harder to tarpit though.

        • Charon

          The dreads had their attacks upgraded so tarpit from 5(!) models (I went with the minimum requirements here 4×5) is not gonna happen. Yes they may use ONE crack per combat turn that glances on a 6. They are dead before they grind through

  • MPSwift

    If you get the turn 1 charge and miraculously are still in combat at the start of your turn 2 you’d be laughing. Red Rain in your movement phase, hopefully wipe out or break the units you’re stuck in combat with, consolidate and then move and charge into almost anything in your opponents deployment zone. Even if you use them like a ballistic missile it is definitely going to keep focus off the rest of your army as they move up and take objectives…

    • Nubu

      Or you could take. Khorne knight and it would do the same thing, better and for lower cost.

      • MPSwift

        True, but you’re limited to a single unit per turn (or multicharging but requires units closer together). Imagine taking 4 squads and have them all splinter off in different directions in your enemy’s deployment zone, could cause all kinds of havoc. Even if they die horribly the next turn the rest of your army has had 2 turns of relatively light attention from the enemy and you’ve likely killed a reasonable amount of theirs.

        • Nubu

          How do you plan to get them in to the enemy’s deployment zone?

          • MPSwift

            Merely speculative and I don’t play tournaments so points aren’t such an issue. As such, I’d probably go Fist of the Gods with land raiders for rule of cool.

          • Nubu

            Roger that. I hope that works for you. In my environment I would not get out of the deployment zone with those.

          • MPSwift

            I’ve played in similar environments mate, I feel for you! Maybe try a Spartan with ceramite and flare shield?

          • Nubu

            Does not stop sD or s10 melee attacks.

          • MPSwift

            I’d say the melee is less of a worry as once it’s delivered 20 zerkers+Kharn it’s just a very large land raider which doesn’t cause much threat. The sD at range is an issue but it is for almost anything; it is a fair point though 🙂

          • Nubu

            I meant ranged sD. Sorry about the lack of specifics.

          • MPSwift

            That’s ok, I assumed you were haha.

          • Blight

            Well chaos can’t have the flare shield unfortunately not that that would help against ranged D shots we see now.

          • MPSwift

            Didn’t realise the flare shield was a no go. That’s annoying. And aye, doesn’t help ranged D.

  • Nubu

    For 50% off this would be playable in friendly games.

    • Stealthbadger

      Wouldn’t that be at minimum a beat stick hq and 20 bodies for 280 points?

      A 20 blob of stock ork heavy armour boys and war boss with klaw is what? 285.

      Seems fair.

      • Nubu

        Orcs are not the right comparison. SM are. 20 marines cost 280p and come with 4 razorbacks.

        • Stealthbadger

          Not at 280 points they don’t, plus Razorbacks. The great melee unit.

          • Nubu

            Unless the formations have changed since yesterday marines get a free razorback per 5 man tactical squad. The tactican squad costs 70p. 4 of those would be 280p

            Is my math wrong? If it is where did I make a mistake?

          • Stealthbadger

            Ah I see, you’re working on someone going full battle company. Well to be fair, you said friendly game, and that is not in my view a friendly formation to bring.

            Plus it’s not just a free razorback, I have to bring 6 tac squads, two FA and two heavy, etc. So it’s not a straight up points comparison.

            Really my point is:- Your expectation of 50% is a little unreasonable. You can’t just bench mark against one faction. How will that ever lead to balance?

            I fully accept though that transferring this to the table is tricky as I don’t think you can clump 4 groups into one landraider so transport is your real issue here. I don’t think the base point cost model for model is a problem.

          • ZeeLobby

            Lol. The Full Battle Company is not a fluffy formation? I’m sorry but this is what I hate about the game at the moment. The cool fluffy formations to take are also the one with broken rules. “Here’s the tablet of 25 formations thou shalt not play.” Let’s be honest, you’d have to limit your opponent to some pretty boring crap to get this formation to perform.

          • Stealthbadger

            To put it more accurately, I wouldn’t bring it but if my opponent did I’d be fine about it.

            I’ve just never seen it played because a) contrary to the view on here not many people I know play marines b) they also don’t think free stuff is fair really when playing lower tier armies.

            I think the structure is fluffy but I just don’t want the free units.

            If the formation is completely fair why is there so much rage about it on here?

          • Nubu

            I think there is no rage about the BC. The rage seems to be about the comparable things that do not measure to it or even close.

          • ZeeLobby

            Maybe it’s because you don’t see a lot of SM players (which is a rarity for sure), but a lot of fluffy SM players wish they could run that formation, and honestly you can without it being overbearing assuming you don’t follow it up with an imperial knight and/or grav centurions.

            And this formation is under-powered vs one half of the armies in the game, and overpowered vs the other. I think that was the original point. It will decimate some armies which have been shafted forever, and will dominate others.

            I shouldn’t comment too much though, I’m basically keeping my hand out of the cookie jar until 8th drops. If they can’t re-balance I’ll be pretty much done with the game, but they do throw darts blind-folded as far as power level goes, and this thing is pretty weak. Wake me up when CSM start winning tournaments with this formation. It’ll be a LOOOONG time before that happens. The thing it will do is crush some fluffy BA players dreams (although GW might be throwing their power level all over the place soon anyway).

          • Stealthbadger

            Fair enough. Yeh it is weird, i tend to not see them often and I’m the only ultramarines player I’ve ever met. Yet apprently SM are 50% of the armies and ultramarines are the bestest marines.

            Me I just love that blue and gold.

          • Nubu

            I don’t see how battle company is something that is not available in friendly games. I have nothing against it. It’s also very fluffy.

            6 squads are 420p. Thats 6 razorbacks and 30 marines. The cost is still lower than 20 footslogging zerkers and Kharn. I’d take those tacticals instead if I’d have the choice. 20*22p plus other upgrades and kharn is…600+ points? That leaves the marines with around 200ish points to spend on those other mandatory stuff to get the benefit from those razorbacks. Over 900p worth of SM with chapter tactics, obsec, heavy weapons and so on vs. 20 ground pounding marines and a glass cannon lord.
            It’s a points game so I’d take the SM. But that’s just me. Others might choose something else.

          • Stealthbadger

            Ywell that’s fair enough, as I said below. Going by the rage it induces I thought the Demi company was seen as OP. A false assumption.

            Unless I’m wrong full Demi do is 810 points minimum. Plus as I keep saying, you can’t just compare it to one faction. If you had it your way what happens when you play guard, orks, sister (jokes we know they don’t exist), etc.

            I have the same conclusion as you, the formation is not super. Just I don’t think it is tied to points cost, more to delivery.

          • Nubu

            Against guard the formation will fall to massed flashlights just as easily. Actually I can’t think of a faction that would have hard time killing 20 marines.

          • Stealthbadger

            I’m not saying they’d be hard to kill (Thoguh I assure you forgetting mathhammer for a moment BS3 str3 and then 3 up armour needs a hell of a lot of flashlights in my experience sadly. Hotshots aren’t bad but harder to span).

            I think the simplest I can say is that wanting 11 point berserkers is a little unrealistic.

          • Nubu

            3*3*2=18. That’s how many flashlights. Considering how cheap they are and all the orders available that’s not too bad.

            It’s not realistic. That is true. It would make them viable in the current meta. Not awesome but ok.

          • Stealthbadger

            Agreed, FYI the maths thing is driving me nuts as to how you got there. Am I being dumb or is this right?

            If I had 18 las guns or 9 rapid firing that would mathematically give me 9 hits (50/50), 3 wounds (1/3), with a 2 out of three chance to save right or one in three to kill depending on how you look at it? So one wound per 18 shots.

            So to wipe a squad of 5 I’d need either 90 guardsmen or 45 rapid firing. I’d need 4 of these as I can’t use one for all four if I needed to drop all four squads in one turn without even worrying about Kharn or the Lord!

            Thats 360 guardsmen or 180 rapid firing. To kill 20? That is at minimum 900 points of guard!

          • Nubu

            I did it bacwards. 1/3 saves fail, 1/3 hits would and 1/2 shots hit. 1 killed marine per 18 shots. On average.

            You do not need to kill them all. Your blob will thin them out and it is fearless so melee finishing is viable tactic.
            There’s 50 guys firing one turn normally, 50 guys firing one turn with rapid fire. 50 guys snap firing the unit that charges and you can add first rank second rank to it too. That’s 300 normal shots plus 100 snap firing. That’s 2 squads dead, one thinned out and one in full health.
            Also they can buy time by moving away from the zerkers.

            That’s the theory in a vacuum . I might remember the rank-order wrong though but I think it’s just double shots.

          • Impy

            One additional shot

          • Nubu


          • Impy

            “I might remember the rank-order wrong though but I think it’s just double shots.”

            It is one additional shot.

          • Nubu

            Roger that.

          • Stealthbadger

            Yeah its all vacuum anyway. Truth be told I’d have tried to whack them with pask in a punisher tank and a punisher buddy. That’s 20 str 5 shots at bs4 with rending and proffered enemy with a split fire of 20 further shots at str 5 bs 3 with preferred enemy. Add 6 heavy bolsters from each tank to taste.

            And all for 400 ish points. Nuff dakka 🙂

          • Nubu

            Did you succeed?

          • Stealthbadger

            Sorry I meant that was the approach I WOULD take if faced with it. I can say in the past pask has usually served me well at erasing termie squads.

            Yanother option is a coupe, of wyverns at 130 points, although they only do str 4 blasts everyone can be rerolled and they then have shred. Simply piles on the wounds and barrage and ignore cover mean nowhere to hide.

          • Nubu

            Yeah. Those are broken.

          • Muninwing

            in one round…

            it’s not their whole input the whole game.

            we like alphastrikes, but that’s not always how things turn out.

          • Stealthbadger

            Not sure if my tone comes across. I was merely musing on the odds here of what you’d need. I totally accept that 900 point guardsmen alpha strike is never going to be thing. This edition…

          • Damien Coté

            My problem isn’t the 20 marines, its 20 marines plus 4 razorbacks all with objective secured. I just can’t win that war of attrition with my daemons (lack of anti tank) or my guard (my anti tank weapons are my anti marine weapons), especially if the razobacks are upgraded with assault cannons (goodbye weapons teams) or las cannons. My 1500pts armies just can’t keep up with 1500pts + 10 razorbacks (all with objective secured). Don’t even get me started if they are White scars and just book it from combat once I finally get there. I honestly have no fun because I can’t play the objectives or try to slaughter them. I do my best to have fun, but getting steam rolled like that every time by overwhelming numbers is hard to enjoy.

          • Nubu

            It is what it is. I got bored with all that and went on to spectator mode. My wallet likes me again up until GW fixes the game, if that ever happens.

  • Painjunky

    The tax is FAR too high.
    Even if it was “only” 2 units of zerkers you still have to get them across the table in an uber shooty edition.
    If you think buying 3 landraiders is the solution… well good luck is the only polite thing I can say to that.

    • OldHat

      Free Land Raiders would have helped make this a competitive formation. 😀 And driven the sales of Land Raiders through the roof. Missed opportunity, GW. Sad!

  • ChubToad

    Rivers of tears and waves of hate all over because of these formations. Exactly what Khorne wanted. Well played GW, well played.

    • euansmith

      Unless those tears are tears of blood; Khorne will not be happy.

      • ChubToad

        Will it be possible that they actually are doing this on purpose? I mean it’s fluffy and all. All over chaos players are like “kill, maim, burn” because of this book. Hope the BA book is not better, because we’ll have infinite whining till Christmas..

        • Nubu

          It’s better by default just because of the inherent features that SM have. What could save this book is a new codex that makes this book work.

          Let’s be honest, if VotLW was preferred enemy + atsknf/fearless/free choise of any one USR and the codex units had reasonable price tags and all the dumber down sides from the formations were dropped this would not be bad. As it is the formations seem to be more agaist the player than for the player, which is pretty unique feature in these.

          I’m guessing that they saw what they did with SM and Eldar rormations, got scared and went over board on being careful that these would not follow the same line of brokenness.

          • ChubToad

            Or a new codex is coming. Or GW will go bankrupt. Or I win the lottery and I stop playing with little plastic men and crate my own game with blackjack and hoockers. Chaos is everywhere!!

          • Nubu

            Nothing is true, everything is permitted.

          • Pyrrhus of Epirus

            i dont see many people complaining about eldar formations, maybe the aspect host (and if warp spiders did not exist, would people complain about any of the other aspect units? i doubt it). Eldar units shine without need to be in a formation, look at scat bikes and the wraithknight, niether has a useful formation.

          • Nubu

            Eldars gonna eld.

  • Blight

    Something I could see for this formation is not turn one assault but more turn two or three hammers. Combine them with the raptor formation and you have a dual melee threat. The warp talons and raptors take out or tie up key targets then the Zerks rush the remaining once the bug guns are occupied. Might be better ways to do it but when not fighting tau interceptor spam could be good.

  • OldHat

    “And as always the Cyclopia Cabal would pair well and possibly give the Berzerkers some psychic boosts, just keep the Sorcerers unmakred (sic) and prepare for people to have a sook (sic?) about the fluff.”

    No. Khorne does not approve! Nor do any editors.

    • Lee Williams

      Editors? We don’t need no stinking editors…..

  • Mr.Gold

    Article No.1 on the tactics of the Traitors Hate Formations.

    I recon Bols can spin out at least another 13…

  • eehaze

    Chaos Land Raiders are an inefficient use of points. If I were to run this formation, I would:

    A) Run Huron Blackheart in order to give D3 of your Berzerkers infiltrate.

    B) Run 4 Dreadclaw Drop Pods

    I’m hoping there’s an IA update to go along with the Black Crusade releases. Forge World units are downright necessary to make the CSM codex work like GW wants it to.

    • Nubu

      It would be nice if GW would acknowledge FW in these formations. For example rapiers in cult of destruction would both make sense and be viable.

  • Simon Chatterley

    Never tell me the odds

  • Karru

    I gave my assessment of this formation in the “reveal” article, but I’ll give a more detailed analysis.

    It’s not that great. It suffers from the same problems that most melee oriented units/formations suffer thanks to 7th edition. There is no cheap/reasonable way to get them to CC. Taking this formations + Land Raiders and possibly Rhinos eats pretty much all of your points. Would it be fun to field? Heck yeah. Will it win? With astronomical luck, yes. The formation is too big and non-flexible for what you get. 4 units of Khorne Berserkers is very expensive and they damage output isn’t that great as was mentioned due to lack of high AP. I also somewhat question the effectiveness of the Red Rain. How often do you have ‘zerkers stuck in melee in the next movement phase? From my experience, if you get your ‘zerkers into CC, they will most likely break the unit or they do absolutely nothing since the target is something they cannot kill, like an Ironclad Dreadnought.

    The Fleet and +3″ to charges is nice, but I would’ve liked to see things like re-rolling Charges or rolling three dice and picking the 2 highest. This way they would’ve been more effective and reliable to get into CC.

    • Skathrex

      Fleet lets them reroll charges as far as I know

      • Karru

        Oh, so it does. Whoops.

  • John Barber

    I feel that if you depend upon the successive round of combat then you’ll be more often than not bogged down due to how lacklustre zerkers are in sustained combat. Kharn excepted of course. Especially with only 5 of em. Maybe the best way to deal with this would be to combi charge something with two squads.