BONUS 40K Goatboy: Guessing Magnus’ Rules

magnus-large-horz-gw

Goatboy here again with a quick little discussion on what might be Magnus’ rules.

I was talking with my buddy about it and we were trying to piece together the rules for this new monster of the table top using science, guesswork, and just a bit of my long time player 40k mojo.  Of course this all could be wrong but its always a little bit of fun to see how much we actually get right when the rules finally come out.  With that – let’s start at the top – the easy parts.

magnus-the-red-box

Taking out the trash…

Magnus Basics

First – let’s look at the name listed on the box.  Thousand Sons at the top – which means that either they get their own Faction with its own set of rules/abilities or it is just a naming convention.  Looking at some of the new boxes – the top name does seem to indicate some kind of basic faction rule so who knows.  Still – we know that this guy is not just a Chaos Daemon he is instead some part of a rebirth of the Thousand Sons.  This might confirm the newest rumor will see all the Chaos factions getting some love so will see.  After that we see the word Daemon Primarch of Tzeentch.  This gives us a few tidbits based on current rules as well as the 30k rules for the listed big bad villains and heroes of the Heresy.

We’ll start with the Primarch rules.  A lot of them match up with the other 40k rules for being an Monstrous Creature so it is pretty easy to see the ones that will show up.  The extra rules will probably show up as well since while good – they are not completely game breaking.  It is when we start to look at the additional rules where we see some chances for a brutal monster on the table top.

lorgar1

Even Lorgar gets all this stuff…

Primarch Listed Rules from Horus Heresy

  • Lord of War
  • Fleet
  • Fear
  • Fearless
  • IWND
  • Eternal Warrior
  • Admantium Will
  • Independent Character

Lord of War, Fear, Fearless, IWND, Eternal Warrior, and Admantium Will all make sense as while they are a good mix of the rules – they don’t add anything weird or new to a MC frame.  Fleet will most likely go away as well as IC status.  IC is a no brainer as this guy is an MC and there are rules already governing how MC cannot join up with other units.  Fleet is something saved for specific Marks/Daemon of Chaos so it isn’t something I suspect will see for this big bad guy.

Over to 40K

From there will look at the guaranteed rules from 40k.  Since he is a listed Daemon of Tzeentch will have a good reason to think he will get the Daemon rules.  This gives you Fearless/Instability depending on which overall faction he resides in.  I am going to guess he won’t have Instability as his Faction is listed as Thousand Sons and anything CSM and daemon like is usually set up with Fearless.  From there we know he will have an Invulnerable save of a 4+ most likely.  This gives him the Mark and Daemon of Tzeentch rules which makes the most sense.  He also has wings and looks to be the size of an MC – so will add those rules to it.  I don’t think he will be a GC – but you never know as that could give him a ton of other rules to make him bigger.  Will stick with MC and go from there.

Current Thought Rules

  • Lord of War
  • Fear
  • Fearless
  • IWND
  • Eternal Warrior
  • Admantium Will
  • Smash
  • Move Through Cover
  • Flyer
  • Daemon
  • Mark of Tzeentch
  • Daemon of Tzeentch
  • Hammer of Wrath
ThousandSonsProspero

Yup – he’s magic!

Psychic Powers

After this we need to look at the idea of what kind of Psyker could he be.  He is supposed to be on par with the Emperor which means he is up there with many of the big time Greater Daemons of Chaos.  The current “champion” of the mind bullets is Fateweaver. This means that Magnus should be at the very least as “powerful” as Fate but has to be different in some way.  My guess is he would get access to all of the “Thousand Sons/Tzeentch Powers” as well as some kind of pick and choosing ability for the listed psychic disciplines.  It would make sense if he had some kind of “Book of Magnus” that lets him pick and choose before any battle.  Now I don’t know how many he would get but it would fit with what is supposed to be the greatest Psychic mind in the 40k universe.

Psyker – min Level 4 – some kind of access to all Tzeentch Spells with either an ability to pick and choose X amount of spells or some other kind of reroll to lock them in.

Wargear

After that – we would need to look at what kind of wargear he might have.  All the named characters seem to get some kind of artefact/hellforged etc.  He has a giant staff so that might have something to do with his abilities.  This might be the way he casts better, ignores perils, or just gets the ability to cast multiple copies of the same spell.  It could also just be a beat stick that gives him some additional close combat rules.  He does look pretty beefy and monstrous so I do suspect he will kick a bit of butt in any combat he gets into.  This is the set of abilities I have less clarity on as they could either be duplicates from other characters, rules from the Tzeentch Daemon Warlord Traits (all of them make for pretty good “Lord of War” powers), or something new but still locked within the common rules for Daemons/CSM/Bad A$$s.

magnus-horzStats

After all this discussion of rules – we have to think about his stats.  I suspect he will closely resemble a Lord of Change in most of the sections. The only big change would be to Leadership and WS/BS.  This would help connect the model to the Primarch rules as well as keep him as something that is usable in normal 40k.

WS 7 BS 6 S 6 T 6 W ? I 6 A 5 LD 10 Sv 4++

It seems most of the Primarchs are WS 7 so it would just make sense for him to be.  He wouldn’t be the crazy fighter we see in the other more CC orientated leaders.  His BS of 6 would fit with the idea of him throwing out a ton of psychic powers and hitting with the majority of them.  After that Strength and toughness of 6 matches up with the Lord of Change.  Wounds is an unknown as again – he could be come a GC and this would get pretty high.  If left as a straight MC I would see 6 wounds most likely.  5 Attacks falls right within the normal range for a Daemon prince/Greater Daemon.  Leadership 10 just makes sense as well – as he isn’t just a random Daemon Prince and was once the champion of men.

How Much?

Let’s bring it all together to somehow guess a point cost.  If he stays an MC – 400 would make a lot of sense as he should be more expensive then Fateweaver and the other Tzeentch Daemon Princes/Greater Daemons.  If he becomes a GC – then I would hope they would push him to the 450+ Range as we all know how rough stomps are when running around on a flying body.

Ok here’s where I end up:

Magnus – Daemon Primarch of Tzeentch
WS 7 BS 6 S 6 T 6 W ? I 6 A 5 LD 10 Sv 4++

Rules: Lord of War, Fear, Fearless, IWND, Eternal Warrior, Admantium Will, Flying Monstrous Creature, Daemon of Tzeentch, Mark of Tzeentch,

Psyker: Lvl 4
Psychic Access: Loremaster Tzeentch Discipline, Loremaster CSM Tzeentch Discipline, Picks 4 spells from CSM and Daemons available Disciplines
Item: Big Phat Staff of Tzeentch – Harness’s Warp Charges on a 3+, Golden Armor of Tzeentch – Ignores Perils of the Warp, Third Eye of Tzeentch – Can duplicate 1 Witchfire power per turn
Pts: 400 if MC – 500 if GC

magnus-the-red-EPIC

Magnus kicking butt in EPIC!

 

~So do how right do you think I am?  Do you think he will end up being more powerful then I talked about?  

  • Darth Bumbles

    He’ll be stupidly expensive, have three psychic powers all of which are watered down versions of Astartes Librarian powers and he’ll phase out if some arbritary thing happens.

    • Latro_the_Zombie

      don’t be so stupid dude.

      its chaos, he’ll be much worse than that!

      • Darth Bumbles

        Ohh a Chaos player can dream can’t he?

    • Djbz

      999 points (Because Tzeentch)

      • petrow84

        My guess:
        Special rule – One eye open (Because Tzeentch)
        With only limited depth perception, Magnus has to re-roll successful difficult and dangerous terrain tests, and his Hammer of Wrath Attacks miss on a 4+.

        • Guillermo Cordido

          He doesn’t need his eyes, he is a psyker.
          let’s give him mastery level 5 Ws10 BS10 as a regular Demon Prince. GC, Hate (Space Wolves) There is no wolf on Fenris Special Rule that let him deny any runic power on a 4+

        • euansmith

          Special Rule: Red Skin
          +1D3″ movement if your opponent is playing Orkz.

  • Ak318

    Also I suspect he will either have a 2+ or 3+ armour save as he was once a space marine. All demon princes have a 3+ currently.

    • ILikeToColourRed

      not stock though 😛

  • Joka

    He will probably have some nifty relic, most likely even a relic armor, i can easily see him get a 2+ armor with some kind of shenanigans on top.

    • Deathwing

      dont be so sure. He is a being of pure energy now, with no real set form. Id wager he gets a 3+ armor save and a 4+ invol save attributed solely to his daemon primarch awesomeness/difficulty to damage.

      Lets all also remember that Bjorn has beaten this guy back once before, so it will need to be reasonably possible for him to do so again.

      • Admiral Raptor

        If a dreadnought can do any real damage to him then the rules have failed us. Bjorn should have been annihilated. Too bad that plot armour is so thick.

        • Deathwing

          well, it did take a Great Wolf, 2 wolf guard, and Bjorn to take him on and beat him in the battle of the fang, and technically Bjorn was immoblized or “destroyed” at the end but his sarcophagus survived.
          So i would say if you throw logan and Bjorn at Magnus it should be a balanced battle. What do you say to that Admiral? Now we are talking around the 500 point mark, right at where goatboy has him.

          • Admiral Raptor

            That seems more reasonable. I’m a big 30k fan so the idea of a dreadnought and chapter master holding off a primarch seems kind of weak. I’m used to Helbrutes as my main dreadnought though maybe that has biased me against Bjorn. If his stats are significantly better than a normal dred then it’s not so bad.

  • Fluffy the destroyer

    One thing to note. The strength and toughness you just guessed at, are about on par with a primarch. A non daemon one. Hell, some are even tougher than that, so personally I think they’ll be higher than that.

    • OldHat

      10,000 years gives him a lot of time to Change. 😀 I figure he will be a GC that is far stronger than the FW Primarchs and is 999pt, because GW gonna GW.

  • Larry Odumera
  • cuda1179

    Too low on a lot of stats. He is supposed to far outstrip anyone else in psychic abilities, except for the Emperor. Logar can be mastery level 5, so Magnus should be 6.
    Also, Magnus was stated to be the physically strongest primarch, although by far not the best or most skilled fighter. Make him WS 6, 4 attacks, and strength 7.

    • ^^This.

      I also wouldn’t be surprised if he is classed as a flying gargantuan creature instead. If he is on a 100mm base, as the speculation goes, he’s larger than a monstrous creature as well.

    • Fluffy the destroyer

      Agreed. Plus one thing to note, 6 appears to be the MINIMUM toughness for the 30k primarchs, 7 on some of the tougher ones like vulkan, and Magnus was always bigger n tougher than a lot of em. Honestly given a few things, like the size of the model as we saw in the video, I’d honestly think his toughness at least would be closer to 8.

      • Djbz

        Considering the sizes of many monstrous creatures GW have released over the years when looking at the model(s) I’m baffled that they’re only T6.
        GW seems afraid to give monstrous creatures toughness higher than 6 (unless they are for a “good guy” faction)

        • Fluffy the destroyer

          true, but then again the wraithlord’s toughness 8 and its tiny so one can dream

          • nurglitch

            Yeah, but they’re also made of solid wraithbone.

          • Hunlow

            And that’s relevant because?

          • nurglitch

            Lack of organs, tendons, or dedicated machinery of any kind. They’re more like statues than robots. Meanwhile Imperial Robots are T7.

          • Hunlow

            How come Wraith Lords and Wraith Guard are T6 then?

          • nurglitch

            They’re smaller.

          • cuda1179

            I thought they brought them down to toughness 7?

          • Fluffy the destroyer

            no, only downgrade they’ve had in recent editions was their strength was dropped from 10 to 8

      • But Russ did “break” him- he is weaker than he was. When he arrives at the Planet of the Sorcerers he does seem weaker and slighter than before that battle.

        • Fluffy the destroyer

          That was before he ascended though

          • The Rout

            I think he is actually weaker since ascension. In Battle of the Fang (post ascension) he gets pretty messed up and only really starts to dominate the way he should when he remembers what he used to be and that he is just fighting astartes. I think the rules reflect this in a lot of ways since a demon prince is not really a match for a 30k primarch.

            Magnus’ strength in particular comes from his mind. I don’t think letting in all that chaos is exactly conducive with clarity of though. Just my opinion but it is supported by fluff. Whether the rules will follow is a different matter.

          • Fluffy the destroyer

            Maybe, but at the same time one has to remember, there is no way he’s JUST on par with a lord of change.
            Plus on the point of his mind…that’s an important factor. He’s the most powerful psyker I know of who is A) still breathing and B) not strapped to a golden toilet.
            That’s gonna be ridiculously powerful

          • The Rout

            Oh it most definitely will be powerful, the book of magnus should also give him access to basically every discipline but i wouldn’t be surprised to see the spell he knows be randomly generated every psychic phase because chaos= RNG apparently.

          • True- however both the Ahriman trilogy and the Battle of the Fang books shows that Magnus is “broken”, somehow weaker after the battle with Russ. In Ahriman he seems to be “fractured” as it were.

          • Fluffy the destroyer

            that…doesn’t make sense to me. I mean other primarchs went through worse and recovered. Look what happened to sanguinius after his fight with kahbanda for example. And he didn’t have the advantage of becoming an immortal demonic demigod.

          • Fluffy the destroyer

            Also having just read his lexicanum page, he’s capable of quote ‘dispatching scores of enemies simultaneously with psychic assaults, and single-handily battling Titans.’

    • The Rout

      Vulkan is the strongest primarch according to the fluff. Magnus is supposed to be the biggest though but since he can vary his size at will hes also the smallest.

      • petrow84

        – Lord Mangus, you honour guard boarded the Dreadclaw, but there’s no space spared for you!
        – No worries, sergeant, I’ll handle this…
        :chipmunk voice: Now, put me into your pocket, and release me, once we landed!

      • benn grimm

        Vulkan is a whole bunch of dumb conflicting nothing, mainly due to the fact that the guy they gave him to to write in HH couldn’t write his way out of a wet newspaper rag. He’s simultaneously more powerful than the genie from Aladdin and more useless than the captain of the titanic. Thanks to the Kyme, he can basically be added to the other two lost primarchs and be forgotten about. Bit of a shame really, but there we go.

        • The Rout

          I really liked vulkan lives. Not the usual HH books, more like Saw 30000 but still good. Maybe thats just me though. It does make sense that either he or Ferrus (the truly pathetic primarch) would be the strongest physically.

          • benn grimm

            Fair play if you liked it, nothing against you, personally I felt all the Salamanders books (30k and 40k) massively sucked, maybe it’s just down to expectations, maybe it’s a style thing.
            I think a case could be made for all the primarchs being the strongest, depending on given day, alignment of the warp, way the wind is blowing etc. Magnus beat up a titan, Lorgar singlehandedly defeated an Avatar and a Bloodthirster, Angron is pretty insanely strong also (titan bashing, primarch bashing and all before hyper evolving into a 30 foot ball of super rage) and Russ is supposed to be at least as strong as Angron/Vulkan.

  • I think using the stats from the Demon Lords in Apoc/IA:13 would be a better start for this type of mental exercise.

    A primarch is already a power house and we saw what they did with 30k possessed in the Gal Vorbak, their rules are fantastic and those are merely just possessed marines. The idea of primarchs being elevated to demonhood… i.e. to be even stronger than they were “mortal”… should be terrifying and hopefully the rules will reflect it to some extent.

  • Sparti67

    He doesn’t have the original epic chainmail loincloth so can’t be a 2++ armor save. The unholy loincloth is a 2++ and causes loyalists to soil themselves if they fail leadership checks.

  • Arthfael

    Or… we could just wait patiently for a few weeks to actually read about his real stats once he does get released.

    • The Rout

      If patience were an option this site would be out of business :p

  • euansmith

    I’d have though Goatboy would be calling for Magnus to the the USR: Spammable. 😉

    I like that he showed his working out. This is a fun little execise in what-if-ery.

  • Matthew

    Starting with a greater demon stats was a mistake, start with the baseline of a primarch from 30k and ‘ascend to demonhood’. Also, your point cost was FAR to low. At 400 points he’d be the same cost as Gilliman from 30k, and he’s supposed to be a demon primarch now, as well as the second greatest psycher. Him haveing the same ML as Arhman, Fateweaver, or Uthwan (sorry, bad spelling) would be something of an insult.

  • Ross Allan

    Gaze of Magnus from Epic was akin to a modern day Str D shot. I’d be surprised if he doesn’t have that anymore.

    • nurglitch

      It was almost the most powerful weapon in the game. For comparison, Volcano Cannons were 3+ to hit, and -4 saving throw modifier.

      • Ross Allan

        I can’t properly remember it’s rules, but I do it was a Super Heavy killer.

        • nurglitch

          I like how the Volcano Cannon was classified as a Macro-weapon in Epic Armageddon, removing Reinforced armour re-roll, and affecting all units, infantry and tanks alike.

  • Simon Chatterley

    If he’s anything like that stupid massive Lord of change that FW have I’ll not be playing against it. I had the pleasure of facing that before FW made it impossible to take in a normal game.

    I would have had more fun sandpapering myself then swimming in the sea.

    • Nyyppä

      That sounds like the gaming experience of anyone playing CSM/DE/Sisters/Orcs/Nids against people who do not play those.

      • Death Company Andro

        Blood Angels too…..

        • Nyyppä

          It used to be so. Now you have the Angel’s Blade.

  • Nyyppä

    Well, one must remember that we will have the loyalists that should not be much better than their 30k versions, actually they should be worse given the time gone by and GW, as has been seen many times, does not want to give a fighting chance to The Bad Guys.

    It’s either very weak or very over costed, like the Lord of Skulls.

    • DJ860

      Are you suggesting loyalist primarchs shouldn’t be better? Wasn’t sure what you’re referring to.

      • Nyyppä

        I’m suggesting that GW will not let the poster boys have a challenge against the black sherp of the family.

  • zeno666

    “Jump around and pretend to be an animal.
    If your opponent can guess which animal, you get 123 re-rolls!”

    Oh sorry, thats the rules for the new upcoming 40k game.

  • The Rout

    I’d like to see some special rules regarding his eye. My wish list would be that it causes fear and negates ATSKNF. Id also like it to be his weakness. To hit or to wound rolls of 6 mess with his save maybe? I’d also give a rule called “poor depth perception” that makes him re-roll to hit rolls of 6 or some such.

    • euansmith

      I think that binocular depth perception really only matters at very short ranges; but the rule could be fun.

      • The Rout

        Could just affect CC then but it should be taken into account but then his psychic abilities may more than compensate. This must be the first and only time tzeentch mutations have resulted in less of something, you expect him to have gained a few eyes really.

        • euansmith

          Maybe his mutation was actually “No Eyes”, but Tzeentch.

  • Matthew

    my thought would be along these lines. Start with the baseline of a primarch
    WS 7 BS 6 S 6 T 6 W 6 I 6 LD 10 A 4 Sv 3+/4++

    Adjust to match Magnus’ fluff

    WS 7 BS 7 S 7 T 6 W 6 I 6 LD 10 A 4 Sv 2+/4++ ML 5

    That’d be the starting point. Now, ascend to deamonhood. How? Well, there is precedent for this, compare a chaos lord’s stats to a deamon prince’s stats. After all, there’s NO POINT of becoming a deamon prince if you don’t get stronger.

    WS 10 BS 9 S 9 T 9 W 9 I 9 LD 10 A 6 Sv 2+/3++ ML 6

    He’d either be a FMC or FGC, I kinda hope for a FGC myself, just based on his size. And of course he’ll be loaded to the brim with special rules, things that make spellcasting easier, opponent’s dtw harder, probably knows every power in existence, and would come in around 999 points+ as a Lord of War choice. But hell, he’s a freaking DEAMON PRIMARCH. Anything less would almost be an insult.

  • He’s a chaos character so overcosted and underpowered is my guess!

    I would like to think a primarch that became a daemon prince ” should” be stronger than his previous incarnation, all the primarchs are st/t 6 base with the tougher guys being st/t7, I’d like to think that a daemon primarch that stands twice the height and 4 times the size of the other primarchs will be stronger and tougher than his 30k brethren!

  • benn grimm

    And just as was the problem with Nagash etc years ago, how do you put such a powerful being into the game without breaking said game (Nagash) and/or making them too weak to match their fluff (avatar of khaine) ?

    • OldHat

      Points cost, obviously. Same reason you don’t often see a Reaver in most games. 😀

      • benn grimm

        Good point, though I think they’d probably like to sell a few more Magnuses than they do Reavers…

        • OldHat

          Doesn’t mean it won’t be prohibitively expensive. I mean come on man, its Chaos!

  • Deathwing

    I think Goatboy may be pretty close here. My only adjustments to his guess would be as follows:
    Daemon primarch of Tzeentch – Harness warp charge on 2+
    “Staff of Tzeentch with cool name” – May double the range of a single witchfire or blessing power each turn, and may deny the witch as if equipped with a psychic hood”

    • Nyyppä

      Sounds fine but is 2+ casting not a loyalist thing?

      • Deathwing

        Its magnus. Hes either the 2nd or 3rd most powerful psycher after the emperor and in line with malcador, and that was before he became a daemon. Would only make sense that he can either reroll failed warp charge harnessing or harness it on a 2+, at least to me anyway.

        • Nyyppä

          All true. Also not a good guy in the eyes of the company.

          GW seems to do the reverse super hero storyline thing. The classic is that heroes are born in dire circumstances through overcoming the worst ods or by sheer happenstance. The GW way is to make the heroes incapable of losing against the baddies. Because of this I don’t think that GW will make him as good as he should be or even as good as Rowboat/Russ will be in power and cost. It’s just not their style.

          If GW wanted to make the good guys actual heroes the bad guys would have the upper hand. Not by much, bad balance is just boring, but by enough that victories feel like victories to imperial forces, Tau and Eldar. But, as far as I can tell, it’s not going to happen.

  • BigGrim

    Love all these attempts to buff what even Goatboy has suggested in comments. When a Mortal ascends to daemonhood he/she becomes both more and LESS than he/she was before.

    Becoming a daemon anything does not just make you better.

    • Nyyppä

      Are DPs not better in game terms than chaos lords and champions?

      • Andrew Thomas

        Arguably. Lack of access to 2+ armour, indeed paying a premium for power armour, being stuck at base Strength with little to no keyword access outside of Smash, or Gifts and Loci if you include CD/KDK, and no access to mundane Ranged weapons are a bit of a let down, but they do start out with impressive raw stats, and the option to be unassailable via flight.

        • Nyyppä

          Psychics are important too.

          • Andrew Thomas

            True, particularly for the non-Khornate DPs. Call me nostalgic, but I miss having a high degree of customization with my character models, and random tables at high point costs just don’t cut it for me.

          • Nyyppä

            If you look at successful codices there are 2 common elements in them. Cheap or at least not too expensive units and smaller than average amount of luck involved. Eldar psychics do not really perils, marines tend to cast on 2+, tau tend to hit on 2+ on top of ignoring cover or even line of sight, daemons have their tricks and a buckey of psychic dice. None of these have stupidly pricey units they have to use.

      • Djbz

        In addition to what Andrew said, Daemon princes are far easier to focus fire on than Chaos lords/champions as they can’t join units, and they have too low a toughness and wound count to survive even basic infantry weapons being turned their way.

        • Nyyppä

          The design is bad I suppose. Honestly though, if you put a CSM lord with a “regular” weapon loadout against a DP with the same “regular” weapon loadout, point for point who would win?

          Regular = not a daemon weapon or similar relic

          • Djbz

            Depending on the Marks and equipment I’d say it would be 50/50.
            Lords have access to a better invulnerable save (up to 3+ with mark of Tzeentch)
            And a Powerfist/Powermaul and/or Lightning claw to improve wounding chances
            (So either 2+, or 3+ with concussive, or 5’s with re-rolls)
            And he’s not even reaching the points of a “naked” Daemon prince with those….

          • Nyyppä

            If you’d use as many points to upgrade the DP would it be able to stand toe to toe against the lord. If it could or would even be better than the lord is it possible that the problem is not that the DP is stronger and weaker than the mortal form but rather that in game the chassis (naked unit) is just…badly balanced with the point of comparison?

            I believe that a unit should be worth it’s cost but not grossly more or less worth it’s cost than other unit of similar role. I’ll use nids here just for an example. Correctly priced Tervigon would be roughly as good as the copy paste Flyrant and Trygon Prime in power per point comparison. Now 2 Tervigons are more than one Flyrant in points and 3 Tervigons are roughly as good as the Flyrant. This based on damage potential, utility value and so on. Tervigons are pretty useless as units at the moment since they are weak, slow and are hard to hide thanks to their side and shape. I’d say that Trygon Primes are about as useful as Tervigons.

            Similarly you could go comparing units from different coidces, CSM to SM, eldar jetbikes to tombblades, SM bikes to orc bikes and so on.

  • Frank O’Donnell

    He be the new 2++ rerollable 🙂

  • Xodis

    2+/3++ because reasons. Probably end up being a better tank/skirmisher than a caster because that’s just how it works with CHAOS!

  • SilentPony

    He should have his own Psy Table he can roll on. A Primarch Power table where even the Primaris power is a devastating large blast, S8, AP2, heavy 2.

  • Commissar Molotov

    “Awesome Spray-tan: 5+ invuln.”

  • Carlos Allende

    step one:place on table
    step two: win game
    step three: drink the tears of your enemy

  • Prudent_Paratrooper

    No he will be 333 points, he will have a sligtly buffed Lord of Change stat line, he will be an HQ choice and NOT a Lord of War. They will naturally beef up his psychic abilities in some way. Maybe Mastery lvl 4 but can pick his spells or something like that. They will then give him some crazy special rule that makes 1k sons within x inches a bit stronger. That will ensure 1k sons players will all buy it and be able to field it, if they make him 999 points or something stupid like that he wont ever be able to be fielded in anything under 2500 point games and even then you wouldn’t field him.

    • Djbz

      This is a chaos model.
      Since 4th edition GW has had 2 methods with chaos, Underpowered or Overpriced.
      People won’t believe he’ll be reasonably powered/priced until it happens