40K: To Kill the Emperor

emperor-goldenthrone-horz

Abaddon wants the Emperor dead. It’s going to be a tough climb even for the Warmaster.

Reading in between the lines of Traitor’s Hate and Wrath of Magnus, Abaddon is coming.  All his plans are lining up, Prospero is back within the Imperium, and a daemonic rift that could pave the way from the Eye to Terra is a ticking timebomb.

So as we await the next chapter of the story from GW, let’s think about this from the point of view of the Emperor.

Say that again after 10,000 years Terra is invaded and the Imperial Palace besieged.

abaddon-despoiler-horz

The Invaders

You will be facing the following:

  • Chaos Fleet
  • Chaos Cultist hordes
  • Chaos Marines Renegades
  • Traitor Legionnaires
  • Chaos Daemon masses
  • Dark Mechanicus (this means Traitor titans)
  • Greater Daemons
  • Deamon Primarchs

Imperial_Palace_Terra2-e1449677390585

The Defenders

Let’s take a look at what forces you have to win the day. I will try to organize them from least effective to most.

  • Imperial Fleet
  • Ecclesiarchal Masses
  • Astra Militarum
  • Adepta Sororitas
  • Knight Households
  • Adeptus Mechanicus (and Titans)
  • Space Marines
  • Death Watch
  • Ordo Assassinorum
  • Grey Knights
  • Sisters of Silence
  • Adeptus Custodes
  • Primarchs

You can cancel out the fleets and lot of the crappy masses on both sides right away. They won’t last an hour once combat begins. You can read all about the original Siege of Terra here, but I have to say this one seems way more lopsided in favor of Chaos this time around.

On the Chaos side, almost every primarch is still kicking and even more powerful in Daemon form.  I’m sure some of the loyal Primarchs will return, but probably not all.  Last time, Chaos was facing the well ordered might of the Imperium at their height of their power and scientific knowledge – led by the Emperor in person.  The Imperium has fallen a long long way since those times, while the forces of Chaos if any thing seem stronger ten millennia later.

I have a feeling looking at that lineup then if a 2nd siege of Terra occurs again, the Emperor is going to need a secret ace in the hole to pull it out when push comes to shove.

I have an inkling what it may be and GW loves to drop hints all over the place, but want to get your thoughts.

~What do you think the Emperor would have to pull to throw back Abaddon once and for all?

 

  • Darth Bumbles

    If Abaddon can pull the traitor legions together, and HOLD them together, along with allowing the Daemon Primarchs freedom to roam…. the defenders will need a literal miracle of the “Emperor gets up off the Throne and he’s mightiy pissed” proportions to survive.
    Defeating one Daemon Primarch leaves worlds decimated and the Grey Knights dangerously under strength (either Angron or Mortarion). five of them … Terra is screwed.

    I’ll take a Legion of thousand year+ veterans who’ve already done it once over legions of comparatively barely trained soldiers who can’t fire their guns without uttering prayers to their gun asking it nicely to fire.

    • Seienchin

      You know that Chaos Space Marines also die, right?
      Most legions are far from being as numerous as when they attacked terra. The loyalists on the other hand have multiplied and spread over god knows how many chapters but I am pretty sure they outnumber the CSM

      • BurpinforDayz

        Oh yeah by a mile, the difference is chaos has warp shenanigans and an endless tide of daemons pouring out from a massive rift in reality next to terra. Well that’s what should be continuing on from traitor’s hate. The daemon primarchs are not to be scoffed at. Angron alone wiped out 100 grey knights (out of a chapter of 500) an endless sea of guardsman and is as powerful as Anggrath himself. No amount of space marine chapters would be able to fell him anyday and even the grey knights would not be able to handle him X6 for all the other daemon primarchs + all the rest of the daemonic horde. Logistically Terra should be extinguished no questions asked but nope that ain’t gonna happen because plot armour.

        • Ross Allan

          10,000 years of fortifying Terra. 10,000 years of stockpiling all the filthiest weapons possible. 10,000 years of preparation.
          So not the doddle for Chaos many might think. Who knows what orbital defences there are? As I mentioned below, what’s preventing The Imperium from having secret Legions on Terra? The armouries of Mars belong to The Imperium, and you can bet they’ve got some proper snacky toys in there.

          • BurpinforDayz

            There’s only so much you can do to fortify and the tech advancements in the imperium are almost non existent.

          • Ross Allan

            That we know of. According to the Twitch Video that GW just did, the new Archmagos Dominus dude (size of a Carnifex, nice!) has been beavering away on *something* for 10,000 years…). And it’s not as if the Heretics toys are in the best of shape, no?

          • Xodis

            That sounds like Plot Armor though, hes working away for 10K+ years on this 1 item that just happens to save the Imperium from annihilation? How is that not plot armor lol

          • Ross Allan

            How is being successfully defended by the ridiculous amount of armed forces of The Imperiurm *not* Plot Armour?

          • Xodis

            Well if there was enough armed forces that were as strong or better it wouldnt be plot armor at all but a logical conclusion to the outcome. Abaddon isnt going to hit them with the same or less, he is going to hit them with more. CSMs are *supposed* to be better trained and skilled than loyalists, but even if we were to dismissed both SM’s and CSM’s in both of size and quantity, Chaos still comes with a hosts of Deamons and cultists who are more than a match than the Imperiums specialist troops and IG.

          • Ross Allan

            Where has it ever said Traitor Marines are better trained? They’re under equipped, and poorly placed to replace losses (candidates aplenty, shame about constant geneseed degradation from Chaos mutations, and the know-how to implant)

            Dude, I get it. You’re a Chaos fan. And why the bloody hell not, Chaos is pretty damned cool. But this isn’t the doddle you claim, or it would’ve been done long, long ago.

          • Xodis

            Traitor Marines trained with the Primarchs themselves and all but a few Loyalist Chapter Masters can even say they saw them in person, CSM also constantly live in a kill or be killed environment, only the strongest and greatest can even survive. There is no “Scout” process so they can get their feet wet, they get to live if they learn to swim in the toughest of waters. Hence better trained for combat.
            Yes their lack of regulation equipment (which has been supplemented by Deamonic equipment as well) is an issue and a clear advantage the Loyalist have. In all honesty though a regular “VotLW” CSM should be equal to at least 2 regular “ATSKNF” SMs. Meaning their inability to replace losses effectively keeps them balanced with the Imperiums ability to pump out more SMs.
            Im actually a fan of both CSM and SMs (and Eldar), but regardless of the rules (which are horrible admittedly for CSM), the Narratives mostly have CSM lose usually when they become too “arrogant” and make a mistake the SMs can capitalize on. This fatal character flaw is used despite the lack of numbers, or lack of equipment arguments, meaning its not really that big of a set back for them.

          • Ross Allan

            They’re also fractured, and selfish. Currently, it’s just Abaddon that’s able to weld them into some kind of coherent fighting force. Yet when you consider even Horus couldn’t get his brothers to do his bidding all the time (and it’s a strong argument that Angron in particular cost him the Heresy), what chance does Abaddon have?
            Pretty much nil.
            And that’s the main weakness of Chaos as it stands. Take out Abaddon, and you fracture their crusade, quite possibly beyond repair.
            Of course there’ll be an unholy mess to clean up in the aftermath, but the cohesion and drive needed for a concerted siege of Terra is more or less the first thing out the window. They won’t co-operate. It’s not in the nature of Chaos, or indeed the Daemon Primarchs.
            As for Traitor Legionnaires? How many are there still out there? Between the events of the Heresy (lots of geneseed lost forever), the Scouring and 10,000(ish, because The Warp) years of internecine warfare and attrition at the hands of the Imperium, I’m betting it’s shockingly few. And of those who remain? How many are in any describable way actually still sane?

          • Xodis

            Thats not true, all of the Primarch Princes have kept their own large factions of followers, then there are the mortal CSM Leaders with their own followers. Yes they are all selfish, but Chaos works by following the strong. Angron was a wild card when he was mortal, now that he is a pawn of Khorne, probably not so much as Khorne has favored Abaddon. I completely agree that if Abaddon gets killed the 13th Crusade would fall apart and we might not ever see CSM band together in large numbers again….the problem is causing that. Abaddon doesnt lose in the narrative, and wont until the Emperor himself takes him out. I would put money right now Abaddon takes out a Primarch (Loyalist or Deamon) if one ever stands in his way….maybe not Guilleman since he is the new Emperor it seems according to Ward lol.
            There are still plenty of Traitor Legionnaires, not as many as they want of course, but we know the Chaos Gods own their soul and can freely give them back their lives, then all the other methods give them fresh grunts.

          • lorieth

            When there’s a plot hole?

          • jmaximum

            there’s a lot of speculation that the Emperor already knows what’s going to happen (as when he knew his children were going to be stolen away and let it happen).

          • Xodis

            That would be neat to see that expanded to find out why, and what he has planned, etc…

          • jmaximum

            There’s all sorts of speculation about it…. it ALMOST comes to light in the book in the series (can’t remember which one) where one of the Primarchs has a flashback, or gets to watch from a third perspective, as the Big E enters the lab, watches the chaos maelstrom happen, and does nothing.

          • Iron Father Stronos

            This thought scares me. Abbadon knows he needs an Ordinatus weapon to breach the walls of terra. Hell, there were campaigns where this was Abbadons sole goal and was thwarted. 100$ says hes got one up his sleeve. OR has an STC for something stupid.

          • nurglitch

            He has the Eye of Night.

          • Blackmane

            An Archmagos working on something for 10,000 years.

            The Golden Throne is 10,000 years old.

            Hmm.

          • Havik110

            Of course if the imperium made a deal with Vect…

        • Craig Bradford

          There are approximately 1000 Grey Knights, not 500.

          • BurpinforDayz

            Oh right , but still it takes a squad of purifiers to lock away a daemon primarch or a certain kaldor draigo and im pretty sure there are only around 20 purifiers.

          • Craig Bradford

            44 purifiers plus Crowe iirc. They’ve still got the manpower to take on all 6 Daemon primarchs though.

          • BurpinforDayz

            Yeah I guess

        • Craig Bradford

          Also – a hundred sisters of Silence walk up to a Daemon Primarch. That Daemon Primarch is immediately banished back to the warp just because of their Null auras.

          • BurpinforDayz

            I thought they had to be psykers for that to happen.

          • Craig Bradford

            No, if anything Null Auras are even more vicious against Daemons – do a ctrl+f on the following page for “daemon” http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Blank

          • BurpinforDayz

            Fair enough although I suppose it would take quite a few to take out a daemon primarch in fact it’s most likely there aren’t enough anymore.

          • Craig Bradford

            Depends entirely on how many of them are hanging out in the Imperial Palace as of the end of WoM, I guess.

    • Jared van Kell

      Six daemon primarchs. You forgot about Lorgar.

      • __

        Everyone always forgets about Lorgar 🙁

        • BurpinforDayz

          Funny because Lorgar is the most powerful primarch rules wise after Horus in the 30k setting in his transfigured form, would of thought he took a bigger stand with Horus gone

          • Xodis

            Seriously right?!?! Whats he been up to for 10K years except for growing his hordes of followers and minions and increasing his power? He should be just as instrumental as Abaddon himself if not more so.

          • BurpinforDayz

            I mean it’s not like he’s got much to lose throwing himself into the fray being a daemon primarch and everything.

          • Xodis

            “Oh after I slaughtered 40% of your military you finally “killed” me? lol Thats not how it works…Ill …be….backkkkkk” or something like that.

          • Severius_Tolluck

            Never understood why Abaddon became the golden boy when other primarchs could have easily taken over. I guess it was to keep gods off the table I suppose. But that is out the window now.

          • Xodis

            Which is a very good question, especially since some Primarchs like Lorgar are not bound to a single god. Which makes me believe even more that Abaddon is a Horus clone and not just some random with anger issues.

          • Severius_Tolluck

            Although my reply came off more philosophical then intended. LOL I meant to keep gods / primarch models off the physical table top due to how powerful they are. Although, yes I do agree on someone like Lorgar should have been a natural choice. However their(primarchs) whims for the most part may beyond that of mortals now that they are pretty much all immortal demons.

          • Xodis

            Oh well, both are fun conversations lol. Im ok with Primarchs on the table or off, I just hope there is a type of limitation though. No Primarchs below 2K points or something along those lines. Following AoS’s “narrative mission” approach, would be great to have a Primarch vs a small “assassination army” or something like that. Make those battles more flavorful instead of just “My Primarch can kick your Primarchs butt!”

      • bobrunnicles

        Five daemon primarchs – Alpharius is working for the Imperium 🙂

        • nurglitch

          You mean Omegon.

          • bobrunnicles

            Yes I don’t 😉

        • ZEROStryfe

          4 Primarchs after it looks like chaos is gonna win, and the Wolves get REKT. – Magnus will help Imperium, thats change you can believe in

      • nurglitch

        Lorgar is the golden figure defending the Emperor in Dante’s visions.

        • Dan Wilson

          Plot twist, lorgar is trying to stop loyalists from killing g the emperor so that he is reborn as the star child.

    • Ross Allan

      If we assume that, you know, the Imperium hasn’t got far more on Terra than we ever thought possible….after all, they take a tithe of Geneseed from every Chapter. Who’s to say they haven’t reconstituted Legion strength forces, held in cryo suspension for just such an eventuality? And this time, they’re (so far) not having to worry about Mars at the same time.

      • euansmith

        Return of the Thunder Warriors? A whole new army for one last stand?

        • Peripheral

          “Sisters of Silence” , the name indicates why no one has heard anything from them.

        • Hedwerx

          SoS Legions evenly mixed in with Legions of Astartes+ would be a pretty big middle finger to an invading Chaos horde

      • Xodis

        That would increase their numbers to an even footing, but experience would prevail IMO.

        • Ross Allan

          The experience of whom? The shattered remains of the original Legions, who after barely surviving the original failed siege would’ve lost much of the materiel, and then set about knocking seven bells out of each other once they reached the Eye, and lost all pretence at cohesion?
          Not to mention they lost an awful lot of Geneseed during the siege, never to be recovered. And about the only one really capable of producing more (as opposed to maintaining what stocks they do have) is Fabius Bile?
          Or perhaps the loads of Cultists. Those mostly there as walking Duracells for Daemons?

          • Xodis

            Who after barely surviving the original failed siege continued to fight the Imperium winning and losing for a millennium while only the strongest and most deadly continued to rise to the top followed by some of the most deadly and experienced combat veterans ever created…fixed it for you. Also they might not have to cohesion they had during the Heresy, but neither does the Imperium. They fight, squabble, and trust each other as much as Chaos does.
            There have been plenty of stories of raids on Geneseed supplies, and other acts of acquisition to keep them at a good size force. Not to mention opening up any type or warp so Deamons can flood the material plane, using cultists and IG troops alike.

          • Severius_Tolluck

            Ones of which Gaunt’s ghosts killed by shooting in armpits, or by dropping explosive necklaces on their heads.. Smetimes Arrogance gets you killed 😉

          • Xodis

            Arrogance is a weakness I agree, the “heroes” need a way to defeat something thats obviously beyond their capability. Arrogance has been the go to for many narratives for many many years lol. Still seems to be rule 1 in the Villains handbook though “Arrogant to a fault”.

          • 6Cobra

            Xodis.. get real, man. 10K years of ceaseless war makes you an incredibly experienced veteran, but it also kills pretty much everybody. It’s really not an exageration to say that 99.9% of the original Legions have gotten killed by now. They’ve captured some geneseed? That accounts for how there are more than a bakers’ dozen of them alive, but it doesn’t give them enormous numbers – certianly not nearly as many as the first Seige of Terra. Plus most of their titans are gone, most of their Knights are gone.. They better hope they have a warp rift full of daemons ’cause they’re gonna need it.

          • Xodis

            Except all the narratives clearly point out that the veterans and leaders are all from the heresy making your argument null.
            Dont worry they have some Knights, and Titans, and a bunch of Hellforged monstrosities to fill the voids, and plenty of the deamons you mentioned so yeah….thats why they are a threat.

          • Ross Allan

            Erm….pretty sure The Tyrant of Badab isn’t from the Crusade era. Nor the various warbands of Traitors turned since.

          • Xodis

            Yes they are the poster children for Loyalist who became traitors after the Heresy, there are also books with full Deamons and not CSMs at all, those are obviously not the books I meant lol.

  • Benjamin E

    Oh yeah, Terra sure is doomed, there’s no way they could POSSIBLY stop the forces of Chaos from leaving the Eye of Terror and getting to Earth…

    Oh, wait, there’s a solid 10,000 years of imperial history where they’ve done exactly that, over and over and over again. But y’know, ignore all precedent or whatever.

    • Djbz

      Except they haven’t really been able to keep them in the Eye of terror at all.
      Fleets get past all the time. For raids/full blown assaults on imperial worlds
      Add to that that the Imperium is spread thin dealing with Hive fleet Leviathan,
      Multiple Ork Waaaghs,
      The Tau’s (third?) sphere expansion

      Add in any traitor forces that have not yet revealed themselves (remember Istavaan 5?)
      Chaos has a better chance than you’d think.

      Abaddon hasn’t been failing with his black crusades, all of them acheived the intended goal (acquiring certain items/information/weakening certain areas etc)

      • Seienchin

        I Agree with Benjamin here and calling the black crusades no a “fail” is being very generous. For the majority of warhammer 40k lore Chaos has not been very succesful at defeating the imperials… You might even say the tyranids were a bigger threat.

        • The background is explicit that up to now Abbadon hasn’t been trying to get to Terra, he’s been achieving other goals

          • Severius_Tolluck

            Heck he even got into the Black Library where he saw something and began to laugh manically and then recalled all his forces. Granted this was the last 13th Crusade. Let’s see how much oft hat carries over this time.

          • euansmith

            Was it a Garfield Cartoon?

          • Severius_Tolluck

            “Oh that Dastardly cat, look at him as he bullies that insufferable dunce of a dog, I sure could learn a thing or too about abusing my peers psychologically and physically as that adorable orange ball of fur and fat”

          • euansmith

            “Tell me more of this mystical substance; this La-san-yah?”

      • Moonsaves

        Oh man, that’d actually be pretty cool. I want a few of the lesser-known Chapters to turn renegade at the worst possible moment in a bitter recall of Istvann.

  • CMAngelos
    • Djbz

      Those look great.
      A bit odd that they don’t match the Seraphim armament of two pistols (fir the side ones anyway)
      I assume the centre one is a new Celestine model

      • CMAngelos

        Celestine (or ‘generic living saint’ not confirmed) and the two seraphim are rumored you be Celestial guard not standard Seraphim.

        But we will have to wait and see for sure.

    • Kritarion

      My heart <3

    • petrow84

      Are her parchments really form an L for loser?

      • nurglitch

        “Lady”

    • Seienchin

      Thats truly awful. Sorry to be that guy but those are laughable miniatures… Really wtf is this???
      Did they put a “female” head on some failed Storm Cast eternal prototypes?

      • Stephen Pearson

        They are near identical in design to the old models, only the Saint’s wingpack is a new design.

      • Just because they are painted in gold and in full plate armour? That doesn’t make them Stormcasts in design by far yet.

      • nurglitch

        You missed the boob-plating.

    • crugglesworth

      amazing

  • Shane Cottrell

    Eldar will offer support to the imperium to thwart chaos, maybe tau, for the greater good and all that, dark elves too, orks might join chaos but who knows, they just wanna fight, nids just wanna eat, or maybe the hive mind communes with slaanesh to some agreement for whater reason. and emperor gets up too, probably with the help of the eldar or…OR, no I just had this idea this very second based on what’s happened to major figures in age of sigmar…the golden throne fails, shuts down and the emperor dies..but..his consciousness or soul or whatever is swimming in the warp but he’s the emperor, too powerful to bend to the whims of chaos or to be held by the tides of the warp…I give you the emperor ascended, as big or bigger than the daemon primarchs, made of psychic energy and pure strength of will, and whatever such things..anyway, the throne was actually hindering the emperor all this time, keeping him in a form of purgatory. dont get me wrong, I started imperial and have a few marine armies but my chaos are my favourite army, however I don’t know if I want to see them win, don’t want them whiped out either but the story cant stagnate any longer. tiz a pickle. just some ideas, not sure if they’re good or not, just throwing them out there

    • Moonsaves

      I reckon the Orks fight both sides.

      In terms of Tyranids, it would be a great boost to their threat to have them come in on the other side of the Terran invasion, and both sides are grimly aware that whatever surviving side emerges has to then also fight them.

      • euansmith

        “I reckon the Orks fight both sides.”

        And each other. And some rocks and stuff that looked at them funny.

        • Old zogwort

          Deff to funny looking rokks

      • Old zogwort

        Orks will fight both sides but I don’t believe they will fight for either side.

      • Iron Father Stronos

        Orks lead the last big waaag against terra to “beat chaos to the punch” and only orks get to exterminate their favourite enemy the ‘umies.

        An INQ will use a space hulk filled with nids and hurl it into the path of the orks WAAAG. The nids and orks get codex updates, a box set, and the story gets tied up there!

    • Old zogwort

      Are you sure that all of the eldar will support the festering chaos feeding IoM? Eldrad might disagree but those who still believe in the ideas of the Cabal might wish it gone quick.

      • Shane Cottrell

        This is a good point, maybe they just help defeat chaos so that it doesn’t grow and while the imperium is weak they attack them, or leave the weakened imperium to be devoured by nids, just remembered genestealer cult, devoured from within and without!

      • Ronin

        If I recall correctly, it was Eldrad who led the coalition of the forces of order against the 13th black crusade (and died).

      • euansmith

        I would expect that Chaos plans to slay the Emperor alone and as few as his subjects as possible.

        That way, without the Astronomicon, the worlds of the Imperium would be cut off and thrown in to turmoil.

        All those souls, crying out in terror, would provided a substantial banquet for the Ruinous Powers.

        • Xodis

          Leaving Chaos with new followers who are desperate, and new victims who resist.

    • Damistar

      Don’t forget the Necrons. The Silent King is no fan of Chaos. Even Imohtek the Stormlord would probably see the rise of a Chaos Imperium to be an obstacle to his plans for reestablishing the Necrontyr Empire.

      • Shane Cottrell

        Oh jayzis I can’t believe I forgot necrons, was only recently thinking of starting a necron army. I can’t imagine them siding with either party, they seem the patient tactician lying in wait for one to win and then swoop in and finish the victor. but then again not all that familiar with their fluff and lore, only the basics, so not sure where they would stand

        • Damistar

          I think they would be in the “enemy of my enemy” camp for the Imperium. They have a long history of despising the warp and it’s denizens (the Old Ones were very psychic and were the first to weaponize the warp). The out of control Chaos following the War in Heaven was a major driver of the whole 65 million year hibernation thing. I’d enjoy the irony of seeing the Necron and Eldar fighting on the same side.

  • MarcoT

    Given your logic Fenris should’ve been dead and buried in a day. Just two chapters (incomplete) and some grey knights vs a 10.000 year old Legion with tons of helps and magic-a-boo.

    However, as loyalists always have more point of view characters they also have more plotarmour, so the bad guys didn’t really stand a chance in the end.

    • Seienchin

      + The CSM legions are severely depleted and disorganized.

      • BurpinforDayz

        To differing degrees but yes. Don’t the traitor legions also have that HUUUGE crack in reality that should be opening up right next to terra with an unlimited horde of daemons from traitors hate?

      • __

        Word bearers would disagree with that

        • nurglitch

          The Word Bearers are too busy engaging their arch-enemies, the Word Bearers.

    • Drew

      You say this like it’s a bad thing, but in most literature, the whole role of the antagonist(s) is to be eventually overcome. In fact, IF the protagonist(s) can overcome them isn’t really the point; the point is what will it cost them to do so?

      I get Chaos players wanting to have a good time on the table top (they should!), but expecting them to “win” in the narrative is foolish, both from a literary and practical standpoint. If Chaos wins, the story’s over. Congratulations, the “Imperium being favored” that is so often complained about on the internet is at an end. So is the entire setting. Time to go play another game…

      • Xodis

        AoS begs to differ, sometimes when the bad guy wins, its so a new narrative with new heroes can begin.
        If CSMs complete their mission, whats to stop them from turning on each other? They no longer have a single cause to fight for anymore because they won. No longer does the Imperium hold the “higher ground” but now must fight, skirmish, and scavenge like the rest of the races. Heroes win to end the story, Villains win to change the story and move the story forward.

        • Drew

          In my opinion, at least, AoS is NOT a good narrative example, given that they’ve utterly failed to establish compelling and individual characters or locales. I really wanted to like it, I really did…but the Stormcast Eternals have come across mostly interchangeable and bland, and most of the other Order races still don’t have a place in the setting, a year and a half after the release. Worse, the locations described are vague and bland- there are no cultures to speak of, no settlements of meaningful identity…where are people’s armies supposed to be FROM? What are they fighting for beyond Sigmar’s “we have to strike back against Chaos”- if there’s nothing to fight for, why do we have to do that? AoS has really failed to define a new universe in an engrossing way in the 18 months since its release- and this is coming from someone who really tried to support the setting and enjoys the game itself.

          I agree with you, though, that the 40K story could be advanced by some level of Chaos victory, but I am always surprised by Chaos players who don’t seem to understand that they’re playing the bad guy and should expect the according narrative role. Not that this is a bad thing; relish the antagonist position (it’s great), but understand what it is and don’t complain that it’s somehow unfair for the protagonists of the setting to ultimately triumph.

          • Xodis

            AoS’s vagueness is intentional, no it wont always work for everyone, but for those it does work for its amazing. Many of the areas have been fleshed out just not to the extent you probably would like. The campaign books have done more than enough of giving players an area to work with so they can build their own stories, which is the point of AoS right now.
            As for 40K I disagree with who the Protagonists is, and fully believe that the Imperium is just as bad if not worse than Chaos itself. I think a lot of fans agree that the Imperium isn’t the “good guy” either, its why we want them brought down a peg or two. Maybe then we can see some real protagonists pop up.

      • MarcoT

        Ultimately you’re right, but being for or against it is part of the fun, right? It means we cares and are invested in this story of theirs.

        In this case I feel Fenris would make a great price, to really show Chaos getting an upper hand. What fun is it if Loyalists win without real loss? The best stories have very deep lows before the good guys win. And the very best stories make sure the loyalist wins through some smart feat, abusing enemy arrogance or something, instead of plotarmour. I have to say Wrath of Magnus did a pretty good job at that, as the Axe of Khorne was a nice find.

        And getting Prospero back seems like a cool result too. Completely unexpected.

    • Fenris was a ritual of sacrifice to raise the planet of sorcerers into real space, it succeeded. Fenris is being purged by the Imperium now, ironic punishment

  • Graham Roden

    They will probably do something with the missing or nearly dead primarchs, expect to see all bar 2 of the goodies and possibly 2 and 11 returning to the fray.

  • Old zogwort

    Why cancel out the fleet any real warmaster would just double his fleet and blast Terra out of existence from the void. Who cares for all those high and mighty earthworms when you have planet destroyer ships.

    • Djbz

      I believe a potential problem with that would be planetery shields. (I assume they exist, I don’t recall an exact mention)
      Assuming Terra has them, they’d be the best the imperium had to offer and (because plot armour) they’d last long enough for the imperium to destroy the attacking ship(s)

      • Old zogwort

        The beast arises didn’t mention those. But they shouldn’t be a reason to stock up on land troops even if they existed. What is the need of them if you can just replace the cargo of the first drop ship that makes it with virus bombs. There is no need to be subtle here they just need to eradicate the cancer that is terra.

        • Seienchin

          Yes but that is because the best arises is lore garbage. Sorry for the harsh words but it is really awful despite being written very well. Dont forget that Horus didnt simply destroy earth. There is a reason for it whatever it may be

  • mattystans000

    Cypher beats Abaddon’s whole crew to the Golden Throne, gets permission to enter from the Custodes under the guise of a loyalist, presents an already reforged Lion Sword to the Emperor & strikes a fatal blow. At the same time, the Ordo Illuminati of the Inquisition go all Order 66 on the Emperor’s Sensei Sons to give birth to the Sensei-Emperor, only it doesn’t work as instantly as they’d hoped. A massive psychic backlash occurs, saving Terra but crippling the Imperium across the Galaxy. Enter the new age of 40k…

    • BurpinforDayz

      I think you might have got it spot on.

      • Seienchin

        I dont because the Sensei arent cannon since at least 15 years ago…

        • BurpinforDayz

          It’ll be the thorians will pull some shenanigans to make it happen. Either way the emperor is gonna die and then he’s either going to become a god or resurrect I’m almost certain.

        • mattystans000

          I’m not so sure that the Sensei have ever been made non-canon or even retconned. Not mentioned for 15 years since, sure, but the fluff still stands I believe.
          Not that I think that actually matters so much to the GW of today.
          Although with the way they’ve been bringing their retro history into the 21st Century lately, I wouldn’t be surprised if their new chapter of 40k went along the lines of something like or close to the above.

  • Spacefrisian

    I predict Abaddon being backstabbed by Huron in his moment of victory, and while Huron celebrates his deed mr Abaddon will rise as a new Chaos god entity it would be a GW thing to do, and totaly not something seen in that original Berserk anime.

    • BurpinforDayz

      Why would the chaos gods elevate abaddon to their power and make him a rival. Gods need to be worshipped, I can’t imagine anyone worshipping Abaddon. Much more likely to be discarded and die.

  • Aezeal

    The Defenders
    Let’s take a look at what forces you have to win the day. I will try to organize them from least effective to most.
    Imperial Fleet
    Ecclesiarchal Masses
    Astra Militarum
    Adepta Sororitas
    Knight Households
    Adeptus Mechanicus (and Titans)
    Space Marines
    Death Watch
    Ordo Assassinorum
    Grey Knights
    Sisters of Silence
    Adeptus Custodes
    Primarchs
    It’s a list… but your…. organization is BS on all levels. you put small chapters ahead of all marines. you put the small contigent of custodes … and saying you’re looking at individual persons /machines doesn’t make sense since you put titans and fleet low on the list.

    • Jared McWilliams

      I agree, the AM is above all space Marine chapters in power they are just slow to relocate for a conflict. However there is likely a large AM presence near Terra already. The entire GK chapter is 500 in number. They along with the custodes and sisters of silence although individually more powerful are the weaker forces.

  • Corran

    The Imperial Fleet is one of the most formidable military organisations in the galaxy and was instrumental in containing the original 13th Black Crusade. Its inclusion at the very bottom of the effectiveness list does not make sense. I would consider it at the top along with the Astra Militarum and Adeptus Mechanicus. The other organisations are specialist ‘spear tip’ forces that are restricted by their limited numbers.

    Imperium wins with its military-industrial complex. The only thing Chaos has to tip the balance are daemons and magic which could be considered inexhaustible, but would be reliant on mortals who would first have to slog it all the way from the Eye of Terror.

    • BurpinforDayz

      Or will they?

  • euansmith

    “And then the Emperor spoke.”

    “What did he say?”

    “Git offa mah lawn!”

    • Seienchin

      Then he used his holy sawed of shotgun to purge those CSM motha ***** from his backyard.

  • Oliver Grimwood

    His plan isn’t to straight up attack Terra. The reason he is attacking Cadia is to destroy the pylons that keep the Eye of Terror in check. Then use the massive bloodshed that will result from the battle for Cadia to cause the Eye to grow engulfing Terra and allowing an unending stream of daemons to attack it.

    Of course though the Emperor is a perpetual so once he actually dies rather than being kept in a state of half life be the Golden Throne he’ll be reborn and boy will he be grumpy

    • DJ860

      Hadn’t thought so much about the perpetual element.

      Makes you wonder if perhaps they should have let him die after the battle with Horus.

      • Oliver Grimwood

        I know just imagine the implications it the Emperor didn’t ask Dorn to put him in the golden throne, could be an interesting twist.

  • Emprah

    If the Daemon Primarchs go to Terra, its bad.

    But a lot of books mention that Terra and Mars are defended in M41 to a ludicrous degree.

    After the Horus Heresy and the Beast, the High Lords upped the defenses extermely and I think unless some Chaos magic somehow disables these systems, the Chaos armies would be lucky to land a quarter of the strength of troops they bring in to the Solar System.

  • Dan Brown

    No matter what happens, there will be a bunch of gamers going, ‘You have killed my game and I will never play again!’.
    GW could drag this final invasion of Terra out for a few editions.

    • nurglitch

      They’ve been doing it for four so far.

  • Marcelo Mercado Despot

    No matter what happens we the entitled will complain.

  • OrbitalHammer

    no way abbadon is making it through the solar defences that easily. A big deal was made in the master of mankind that the defences of terra had been stripped bear by years of war. If we remember our heresy history as well, Horus had to get his business done before the dark angels and space wolves arrived, meaning he barely had it in him to take the palace.

    fast forward 10,000 years. Earth is wrapped in steel, without having had a heresy to grind it down. A recall would be given to every fleet, every chapter of marines. While i dont expect every marine chapter to respond, every ship in the fleet would (mainly because the commissar on board will execute every captain that wouldnt obey). That puts abbadon between terras defences, vast numbers of imperial ships returning, and i would say at least 500,000 marines on the way back.

    Also, this is my own head canon,i beleive dorn is not as gone as we believe. the ultimate defense would be one you never see, and i think he is there, watching the palace.

    From a story perspective, abbadon would have to make it to the planet, but i dont think it will be a cake walk.

  • WhenDidVicesBecomeVirtues

    Well I think a huge portion of the fan base would be in an uproar if Terra fell and/or the Emperor was killed (if he is even still alive?).

    If the story arc involves Terra falling, the Emperor is moved to a shelter temporarily and then the storyline comes back to retaking Terra from Chaos?

    • Deathwing

      Possibly. Remember the fluff on the emperor and how he was created. There is a distinct possibility that once his current physical shell dies his warp essence simply takes a leadership test and reincarnates on the spot.
      He is basically a perpetual after all.

      • nurglitch

        If that was the case he wouldn’t have ordered his own confinement to the Golden Throne. As it is he’s the only thing keeping the breached webway portal closed. If he takes the time off to die there isn’t going to be a Terra to reincarnate on.

  • Defenestratus

    Don’t worry.

    The Eldar will show up in mankind’s hour of need and save you loyalist bahstahds.

  • Dominic Pirrello

    You all act like the fleets don’t mean anything but they do, and you can dam well be sure the eldar don’t wan terra destroyed. There might be some xenos scum helping both sides this time. The orc for chaos and eldar for terra. The fleets are where these battles will truly be won or lost. I’m imagining nova cannon armed warships making short work of the chaos fleet unless Abbadon has some way to negate their effectiveness. Teleporting Daemon ships come to mind. Then, assuming he wins the space battle he can just blow up the planet with the planet killer or destroy earths sun with the remaining black stone fortresses.

  • Homeskillet

    Abaddon won’t be in charge of the Legions once the Primarchs start coming back. There is no way immortal Demon Primarchs are going to follow a mortal Space Marine, even if he was Horus’ second-in-command.

    • Deathwing

      except as part of his getting the combined super mark of chaos he had to secure the cooperation of all the traitor primarchs. They have sworn oaths to help him. He is the HMFIC for this, the primarchs might not follow his orders per se, but they are chaos/oath bound to follow his lead.

      • nurglitch

        They are ultimately Slaves to Darkness, and will follow where the Champion of the Four Powers leads because their Gods command it.

      • Evil Otto

        Because Tzeench can be counted on to keep his word, right? 😉

    • Jared McWilliams

      Or the 4 gods elevate him to the first primarch of all four powers. Incoming 130$ model 🤣

    • Nyyppä

      Oh come on. Abaddon will be able to backhand most of those primarchs back in to the Eye of Terror with impunity.

  • Deathwing

    It is called the terminus decree, and it sits on Titan, accessible only by the supreme grand master of the Grey Knights

    There is also the slight chance that what the purifiers guard could be relevant here. What if they are not guarding a warp tainted thing but instead something like Malcador, or one of the primarchs that is missing? We also have the mystery of Cypher and his relic sword to think about.

  • TheWanderingJewels

    IF the emperor Dies. Having him ascend and come back as a Chaos God of Order would be cool. With Sanguinus and the Living Saints at his back

  • Simon

    If it’s anything like the End Times, the Emperor will return to fight in some form.

  • Rajak

    I can see GW letting Abaddon kill the Emperor. Then upon his death the Emperor reincarnates into a new Chaos God and steps off the throne to destroy the chaos hordes. Then in his new god form starts to rally humanity once more. It is just the “ace” GW could use to sell a Model of the Emperor the Lv 6 pyker with laser-beams eyes.

  • BurpinforDayz

    Let’s be honest here this is how it’s really gonna go down XD

    Captain General of the Custodes: You there, the heretics have mustered around Terra have you finished with the fortification of the planet’s defences?

    Chief Enginseer: Almost sir , only the final piece to be put back in place, in fact I feel almost entirely safe just thinking about it!

    Captn. General: Safe! You can’t feel safe in the face of Abaddon’s forces and the endless horde of the daemonic that want to disembowel you!

    Chief Enginseer: Why wouldn’t I, this recent development in planetary defence technology will leave holy Terra invulnerable!

    Captn. General: What are the specifics of its design, we can’t be having it daemonic or anything, that wouldn’t do at all?

    Chief Enginseer: Well you can see for yourself it’s being put on the planet as we speak.

    (A large indiscriminate mass of blue, white and gold shrouds Terra, the planet goes dark and many people scream as a mesh of various ultramarine craft, buildings, and marines float suspended in the sky fused together to form a sort of shield)

    Custodes Captain: Holy Emperor…

  • Agent OfBolas

    Space Marines will win.

    Because of free transports 😛

  • Frey Jepson

    Making a deal with the devil and releasing the star god(or machine god) Mag’ladroth from Mars to finish his work against chaos would help immensely. I really hope things don’t go they way they did in the End Times fantasy storyline.

  • Baldrick

    This………….beckons the return of the……………Squats……….nicely played GW

  • Subb

    If the “End Times” of 40K happens, we’d find out what the Terminus Decree is and I’m guessing that it would be the miracle “last gasp” save for the Imperium.

    Or the Ordo Chronos comes Tardising back.

  • Joe

    You would think Abaddon knows the Emperor is already dead

  • Nyyppä

    GW needs to make this plausible in game terms for it to have any credibility. At the moment BA has finished BL off in the twin supplements and suffered pretty much no losses at all. It is apparent that the rest of the campaign rests on the shoulders of DG while the 7 surviving mook legions suck their thumbs while lamenting the eradication of their emo brethren.

    Can DG do it alone? Not likely.

  • lorieth

    He has to die. Come on, sing it with me:

    There’s a Star Child, waiting in the sky,
    He’d like to come and meet us
    But he thinks he’d blow our minds…

  • Hakon

    What if the 2 unknown chapters and their primarchs rock up? What if that is where the other primarchs have gone in search of, and what if the rumours that Cyphus may actually be an imperial agent answerable only too the emperor are also true? Could that be enough to give the imprials a chance?

  • DJ860

    Imperial Fleets, least effective.

    I do not agree.