Goatboy’s 40K: Rating the 9 Traitor Legions

wayne.england.chaos.terminator horz

Goatboy here and I do have to say it is a glorious time to be a traitor of the Imperium – let’s look at the Legions!


I told a 40k buddy of mine that we would see Traitor legion rules by the end of the year.  He informed me that I was in fact a dumb dumb for thinking that.  Well guess who is wrong and owes me a Coke.  Thankfully GW has decided to give back to their community and bring about some true “Traitor Legion” rules.

First Thoughts

Overall I am pretty happy with it because the new book still had to live within the terrible confines of the original Chaos Space Marines Codex.  It does do a lot to help “fix” them and while it doesn’t rework any of their unit rules per say – it does tack on enough stuff to at least let these “bad” guys reside at the top levels of the Mid to bottom Good tier.  The real interesting thing is that if we actually get a point fixed and updated CSM book – this book will still work as long as all the unit choice stay the same (i.e. Cult Marines, Cultists, etc).

I will end up doing a deeper dive into the book as I eventually give a – Traitor Legion list extravaganza in the coming weeks.  Not everything is awesome in this book – but like I said earlier there are enough glimmers of hope to get excited to bring actual Chaos Space Marines to the table top.  Most armies either force you to take a Mark based on their Legion or not have a Mark.  Veterans of the Long War comes to you free if you follow what your legion needs – Mark or no Mark for those legions not affiliated with a god.  From there most of the special army build lists have the Warband as a core, 4 Leaders of Chaos (Daemon Prince, Chaos Lord, Sorcerer, etc), then the same 8 Aux options you have seen in the Black Legion book.


Death Guard

First of all – we’ll start with what I think is the best of the listed Legions.  The Death Guard got a real nice boost to their army.  They got their own core formation detachment as well as a plethora of rules to help boost them up.  Just like every other Traitor legion – if you pick Death Guard you all have to take Mark of Nurgle on any unit that can take them – but you do get Veterans of the Long War for free.  From there VoTLW gives you Fearless, FNP, and Relentless all for the tax of losing a point of Initiative.  This is pretty dang awesome as your Chaos Space Marines become cheaper Plague Marines without a Knife.  The next neat thing is their new Core Formation that if you take a full 7 units of Plague Marines you can make units have -1 Ini, WS, and Toughness.  This is the start for a crazy combo that could take down a Toughness 4 models as Nurgle also gets a spell that can cause a -1 T to a unit. Enfeeble, Grotti, and heck Tallyband.  Watch a Bark Bark star melt.  The Decurion gives some other fun abilities as well – like reroll failed FNP rolls of 1 and even Stealth when an opponent shoots you from 18″ due to the cloud of flies.  Overall I give this army a good chance to show up on the competitive scene.


World Eaters

Next up the other army that could see some play on in the competitive scene as it seems simple and fun to play is the World Eaters army.  They get the Maelstrom of Gore as a Core choice – and while interesting it is the Warband that I really think has more power here.  As per some of the other legions – you have to take Mark of Khorne and you get VoTLW for free.  It grants you Fearless, Furious Charge, and Admantium Will.  This lets you have “cheaper” berserkers that still have objective secured, decent gun options, and again cheaper.  There is also an item that grants the bearer and his unit +3 to his move, charge, and run rolls.  This is pretty spicy for sure when you mix it with their decurion that gives all your non vehicle units a free 2d6 move after deployment and infiltrators.  Overall the army isn’t amazing but it feels very fluffy and World Eaters.  Plus you could set up huge hordes of Angry red jerks who won’t leave your opponent alone.


Emperor’s Children

Next up I do enjoy the new Emperor’s Children rules.  They also get their own Core Formation that is based on 3-6 Noise Marines and Lucius/Chaos Lord as your leader.  The Noise Marines gain Split Fire (Good to shoot a Blast Master at someone) and if you have a full 6 units of Noise Marines everyone’s sonic weapons get a +1 strength.  You can combo this with one of their spells to get another +1 (Str 10 Ap 3 blasts sounds pretty neat).  Of course you all have to take Mark of Slaanesh and you automatically get VoTLW.  You gain Fearless and 6+ FNP (4+ if you have an Icon of Excess).  This is one of those armies that I feel could have a very interesting foot print with loads of fearless troops, lots of FNP, and some decent weapons that can punish an opponent.  A few rolls of Endurance could mean wonders for some big units of Noise marines putting down a blistering guitar solo of death.  They also get the return of Combat Drugs that the entire army gets.  All of them are good and some Toughness 5, Initiative 5 warriors could be pretty awesome on the table top.


Alpha Legion

From there we get into some of the interesting choices.  Alpha Legion seems like one of those armies that someone will bring it and kick the crap out of you.  They all get infiltrate, their cultists always come back on a 4+, and you can never get their Warlord as whenever you kill him another Character in the army takes his place.  You even get to roll up a new Warlord trait too.  The ability for an entire army of Infiltrators is neat – and you even get  Chosen as troops.  VoTLW is free if you don’t take any marks etc.  This again is an interesting army but probably won’t be the best on the table top.

pad-thousand-sons 200px-BlackLegionIcon2


Black Legion & Thousand Sons

These two are the same as before.  The Black Legion will end up being a Cabal factory as before.  The Thousand Sons are much more a stand alone army and I think will see some Magnus builds based around the newish Tetrad showing up.  Still it is nice to have them all in the book and lets you not have to buy the Wrath of Magnus to get all Thousand Sons rules.


Night Lords

The Night Lords might be an interesting army as they get the Raptor Talon as a core choice.  The army doesn’t get Fearless for not having a Mark and gain VoTLW for free. They instead gain Stealth, Night vision, and cause fear checks at -2.  Raptors become troops and you have he return of the old massed jump pack army of death. Its almost like they mixed in Raven Guard with some old school Blood Angel goodness.  The army can reroll failed charges too and has some decent wargear.  I think there is something that can done with this list as the Raptor Talon as a core has some strength to it.  Mix in some Rhinos from a warband, use some dirge casters, and get mixed in with a ton of evil Chaos Lords.


Word Bearers

The Word Bearers seem rather lack luster.  They feel like a weird Crimson Slaughter with a neat ability to do Malefic spells on a 3+.  That is really kind of annoying as while it is cool they can cast like that – they will still have issues with perils.  It would be neat if they had some kind of daemonic cabal option or at last some Daemonkin mix in abilities.  It is rather annoying as they are one of my favorite legions and they feel just a little left out of the game play.  Its like they are the Salamanders of the Traitor legions.


Iron Warriors

Finally with have the Iron Warriors.  This legion also feels a bit lackluster except for a few interesting things.  They all gain 6+ FNP  and with no mark get VoTLW for free.  It lets you hate Imperial Fists and buildings.  If you take the special Army you get Stubborn as well.  Overall it is kinda of meh – but the one shining bit of rules changes is the addition of Obliterators or Multilators as troop choices in the army.  This could make for some serious nonsense when you have like 18 Obliterators that are objective secured and can shoot the crap out of something.  All mixed in a CAD with some Chaos Lords, Sorcerers, and heck some Maulerfiends or two.  I doubt it works but it is at least something to think about.



Is this book worth $35.00?  If you play Chaos and have any love for the Legions then it is a resounding yes.  It is books like these we want GW to come out with as they are cheap, add good but not broken stuff to the game, and finally give the players something they have wanted for awhile.  I get the feeling the new 13th Crusade campaign that is getting hinted about will add more and might bring with it a new CSM book that makes this update feel a lot better.

~We shall see.  Until then – death to the false emperor!

  • ILikeToColourRed

    so when they fix the noise marine upgrade (currently requires a fair bit of work to fit onto the marines) i may find myself playing emperors children

    • Ian Bush

      Just buy cacophony man!

      • ILikeToColourRed

        the issue i have there, is i already own 10 noise marines, so they wouldnt match 🙁

        • Ryan Adams

          Why does chaos have to match?

          • ILikeToColourRed

            because the emperors children wouldn’t have mismatching wargear 😛

            i like when a weapon is clear what it is

          • Moik

            Are we talking about the same army? Because most EC I’ve seen don’t have pantlegs that match one another: http://heresyandheroes.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/noisemarinert.jpg

            Half the point of the army is to have the most garish assault on your eyes possible.

          • ILikeToColourRed

            you seem to have misunderstood – the reason for the “:P” face is that its an ironic statement

            the real reason was also supplied: I, personally, prefer clearly defined weapons for clarity in the game

  • disqus_CktyL7rKWJ

    Welcome to another 4 years of playing your Iron Warriors with Death Guard rules -.-
    What barrage and Ordnance weapons exactly do I get to re-roll that are part of my “special” decurion? Vindicators and BS2 Fortification turrets?
    Word bearers at least get some decent summoning Daemon princes…

    • Nyyppä

      The undivided got shafted again. No news there.

      • BurpinforDayz

        Night Lords and Alpha legion were some of the best of the bunch. You can re roll demolishers and the defiler’s battle cannon.

        • Karru

          Shhh… Don’t say that. Their Legions didn’t become obnoxiously broken so this release is completely worthless.

          Just agree with them, smile and nod.

        • Nyyppä

          And? It’s not good enough.

        • It doesn’t make the defiler less terrible, though, so it is just vindicators that benefit. It should’ve been an army wide rule so it affects stuff from IA 13

      • Malisteen

        Eh, I wouldn’t say shafted. They’re not as strong as Death Guard, sure, but Alpha Legion and Night Lords both got some very playable, very fluffy, very fun looking rulesets to work with.

        And while Black Legion didn’t get much, they didn’t get nothing either, with free vets even outside of the TH decurion (15 points cheaper for cabals, at the least), a decent core formation in the hounds of abaddon (yeah, the formation existed before, but it didn’t have free vets and it wasn’t the core formation of a decurion), and, if you want to live dangerously, the chance for some alpha striking shenanigans with raptor talons and deep striking terminators that can arrive on the first turn.

        As for Iron Warriors, I feel like they’re going to want to stick to CADs anyway for FW options, so the perplexing barrage & ordinance bonuses won’t matter anyway, though they will miss out on stubborn.

        But if they stick to CADs, which case while their oblits won’t be as tough as death guard ones, they will be spammable in CAD obsec troop choices of single oblits without needing extra warpsmiths as babysitters or separate CADs to buy HS slots.

        So yeah, spam a bunch of solo obsec oblits, deep striking maybe a third of them, bring in some undivided sorcerers with the marine lores (death guard sorcerers have to burn power slots on nurgle), a warpsmith or two for fluff, and a whole lot of heavy support and lord of war slots to spend on rapier platforms, sicaran battle tanks, fire raptors, mauler fiends, daemon knights, etc.

        No, not as strong or tough as Death Guard (then again, only one legion can be the strongest/toughest in the book, so hard to begrudge them that), but still workable and fluffy enough, imo.

        I mean, you guys arguably got more than my Black Legion did, and I’m ok.

        • Nyyppä

          Yeah, the problem still is mostly the codex.

          BL: Forced upgrades that cost were always a bad idea, especially when the upgrade costs a lot and does nothing like VotLW.

          AL: The WLK denial shenanigan is cool. They got nothing worth mentioning on top of that though.

          IW: Also nothing worth mentioning. Not because of the supplement but because the units in the codex simply suck. Mutilators are cheap troops but cultists are cheaper and have more staying power in the end so…why take mutilators.

          Oblits are still just poor mans centurions.
          Also some idiot thought that it was a good idea to give more USR help to the opposing hard counter.

          NL: Raptors are, well, lacking. Also fear in a game in which none of the viable units care about it is just worth nothing.

          WB: Yeah. The biggest thing is the giveaway hatred UM get. That’s about it unless somehow they do not perils on doubles when summoning. Other than that there is nothing worth mentioning.

          WE: They get in to melee pretty nicely now. Too bad they have nothing that does something in melee even now.

          DG: It’s ok. Most used weapons are ap3 or better or have huge amount of shots fired which FNP mitigates at least partially. Other than that nothing special. At least 15p fearless FNP marines are worth the points in theory.

          TS: Well, we have seen their rules and if we forget the costs the Magnus is still the only worthy unit.

          ES: With some luck they can be ok in casual setting.

          Anyway, it’s better but not good enough. Especially the legions that give boost to enemies.

    • Julien Huguenin

      Hm the leaks i’ve read gave Tank Hunter to oblits and havocs…Which is quite a strong bonus imo.

      • disqus_CktyL7rKWJ

        Oh, TH is good, no question. But have you seen any Imperial fists armies that field Devastators or Centurions because they get it, too?

        Oblits also lose T5/4++ with IW …

      • Nyyppä

        That’s great against WKs, right?

    • Zingbaby

      Wow I’m surprised to see CSM players complain about stuff.

  • Deacon Ix

    (As a WB player) I haven’t seen the full rules yet so may be wrong but from the info I have read on teh interwebs I can see myself taking a few Daemon Princes to be my summoners, 3+ casting and perils on normal.

    • Malisteen

      Honestly, having your army led by daemons who spend their time summoning *more* daemons doesn’t sound entirely unfluffy as a way to go for word bearers, anyway.

      • Charon

        The problem is that it is not “Word Bearer Space Marines” but “Chaos Daemons” again.
        Let them count as daemons for summoning puropses and here we go. Some actual CSM.
        Another would be a Dark Apostle Lord (and gibe them goddamn equipment). Because the only way to fit one of those derp apostles into your detachment is via cultist spam as the warband does not allow derp apostles.

        • Deacon Ix

          ^^ indeed, basically I play WB with Daemon Allies currently and while I think this is fluffy it doesn’t sit well and I can’t bring myself to nerf down my army, your suggestions are spot on.

          • BurpinforDayz

            I think if you want to play a WB army the crimson slaughter rules work far more thematically.

          • __

            Yeah, their possessed table is soooo much better than the normal one

          • BurpinforDayz

            If only GW would faq the VotLW thing, that would make the favoured of chaos formation pretty great.

          • Alpharius

            Hmm could you take Crimson Slaughter possessed in that formation where they get all the results simultaneously?

          • Karru

            Unfortunately no. Daemon Princes have VotLW as a default and Crimson Slaughter are not allowed to have any VotLW’s in their army.

          • Brian Griffith

            Except they can’t take anything that has Veterans of the Long War.

            Word Bearers meanwhile are the definition of Veterans of the Long War.

        • Malisteen

          Word Bearer daemon princes are still ‘word bearer space marines’ in my, or most books. And considering that the cultist formation is the cheaper of your core formations, apostles are likely to see use there. I don’t know if they allow apostles as command choices in your decurion or not – I’ve heard mixed reports on that – but if so you can get one or two for fluff there. And iirc there’s a crozius artifact that you can give to a lord (or sorcerer, or prince) to have your apostle lord (or sorcerer, or prince).

          I wouldn’t at all claim Word Bearers are towards the top of the pile in this release. They’re definitely towards the bottom, actually, down here with black legion, iron warriors, and thousand sons. But it’s not nothing, and it’s not entirely unfluffy. After all, really the only thing Word Bearers got back in 3.5 was ‘more troop slots for daemons’.

          • BurpinforDayz

            I wish the dark apostles could have been demon summoning bad asses but alas no.

          • Malisteen

            yeah, me too. Apostles and Warpsmiths were both really lazy ideas, but they could have been interesting anyway. Sadly, their mechanical execution was just as lazy, and apostles in particular are pretty terrible as a result.

          • BurpinforDayz

            again closest thing is the CS prophet of the voices.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            I think they are both overpriced. Should be 70 points. Also should be in Elite slot, with 3 wound version available as HQ choice for 110.

          • Malisteen

            Apostle shouldn’t just be cheaper, it should do different things. CSMs have numerous sources of hatred and fearlessness already.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            Cultists don’t. DA should buff cultists, thats what he’s there for.

          • 301stFeinminsterArmoured

            If anything, they should do better than free Boons rolls.

          • 301stFeinminsterArmoured

            One-wound HQ ICs should be errata’d out of the game.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            They have 2W.

          • 301stFeinminsterArmoured

            Didn’t know, but still.

          • jonathon

            I honestly expected the WB to get something along the lines as “All IC’s have the Daemon USR, Dark Apostles count as lvl1 psykers and can generate powers from Malefic Daemonology” – but I guess that would have been OP, right? I mean, army-wide Crusader is far more balanced and thats why every Marine army you face is nothing but Black Templars…. right guys?

          • BurpinforDayz

            That wouldn’t of been op , it would have been great , oh well guess no ones playing WB then… shame they’re my favourite legion with the death guard.

          • Charon

            Which is ok. I would have taken that (daemon troops in a CSM cad) too.
            Sadly it is not “nothing” it is even less as 4 units (cults) got canceled.
            The whole bonus is basically:
            Zealot in 6″ around the apostle
            3+ on summoning
            can not use plaque any of the marked cults.

      • ZeeLobby

        Also doesn’t sound like a Chaos “Space Marine” army, haha.

  • SWISSchris

    As a Death Guard player with at least 7 units of plague marines, this should be interesting… : )

  • Alfie Phillips

    Infiltrating bikers. Yes please!

    • BurpinforDayz

      T6 FNP Bikers re rolling FNP of 1!

      • Alfie Phillips

        That’s disgusting!
        I love it.

        • NightShade2k

          if you get the +1 toughness spell off i saw on SB you have T7 bikes with 6+ FNP rerolling 1s

          • BurpinforDayz

            If you get endurance you get T6 4+ FNP fearless bikers re rolling 1s with eternal warrior. Not to mention the 4+ jink :P.

  • Malisteen

    The Black Legion are decidedly not the same as before. Not as changed as the other legions, sure, since they’re still stuck with the same artifacts, but things Black Legion have gained:

    – free vets, even outside of the Traitors Hate decurion. Sure, every other legion got this anyway, but the final death of the hated vet tax is a welcome relief for Black Legion players.

    – Hatred: AotI with rerolls in all rounds of CC, not just the first. Not a huge deal, but not a terrible one for a melee leaning faction, either.

    – Troop Terminators in CADs. In today’s formation saturated environment, it’s not as big a deal as it once might have been, but considering that you still need to field CADs to access FW goodies, having ObSec termicide to fill those compulsory core choices isn’t a bad alternative option to the usual cultists.

    – New Black Legion Decurion. Now, for generic undivided CSM armies, that decurion isn’t as good as the one in Traitor’s Hate, since the Black Legion Warband formation, if it’s the same as the one in their recent supplement revamp, isn’t as good as the regular Chaos Space Marine Warband.

    However, if your Black Legion warband leans khornate – not at all a bad option given the melee boosts in the Black Legion traits and the fear and crusader boosts offered by their new decurion – then you can take the Hounds of Abaddon as your core instead. Yes, this formation existed already, but it *wasn’t* the core formation of a decurion, and it *didn’t* have the new legion and decurion traits.

    With free vets, free mark of khorne, hatred: AotI (in all rounds of close combat), crusader, fear, 1/game run and charge (sadly not in the first turn), and +1 strength if you roll high enough on the charge dice (with khorne icons to help you roll high enough and stacking with the furious charge those icons grant), this is a nice little core formation. With an emphasis on little, bottoming out at 1 squad of berserkers, one squad of CSMs, a lord, and a unit of bikes. The zerkers are a bit of a tax, but even so, this is much less of an investment than many of the other legions will end up putting into the core formations of their decurions, leaving you more points to put into auxiliaries, command choices, and allies.

    And if you want to life your life a bit dangerously, the chance for first turn deep striking gives Black Legion Raptor Talons an edge over those of the Night Lords, even if they can get them as core formations. I don’t support it personally, deep strike without scatter mitigation is a comedy of errors, but it’s certainly an option.

    If you don’t want to field the hounds of abaddon, then yeah, things don’t look very changed. You’ll still end up playing most of your army out of traitor’s hate, so the only real changes will be that your cabal is 15 points cheaper, and you’ll still have hatred rerolls against imperials after the first turn of combat. But we weren’t expecting as much for the Black Legion as the other legions, since we’ve gotten more attention over the years already. I’m not going to begrudge the other legions their day in the sun.

    And if Chaos Marines in the future ever get their long sought after deep strike scatter mitigation, watch out, because Black Legion deep striking armies will suddenly become a very dangerous thing indeed.

    • Alpharius

      Chaos Damocles?

    • nurglitch

      They can get the Dimensional Key into play in the first turn now. Neat.

  • MarcoT

    Death Guard sound really powerful, since they get two abilities that are always useful. The rest seems more or less balanced and pretty cool overall. Some great fluffy things in there. Good job GW.

    • Malisteen

      Some are better and worse. I know a few world eaters players annoyed at how useless the legion benefits are for beserker units overall. And while I’m ok with it, since I wasn’t expecting any changes at all for Black Legion, I know of a few Black Legion players who are annoyed that they didn’t get any new items, or re-pricing of some of their existing, way too expensive items.

      So there’s definitely a spectrum of Legions that get more or less out of this, and as usual Nurgle comes out on top, especially with relentless out of nowhere, they would have still looked like one of the better Legion options even without that. But all in all, a pretty nice release.

      • E65

        Just have to wait for the new CSM dex.

    • Alpharius

      Kind of sad about the Cult units though, marked generic CSM are flat better for Khorne and Nurgle, while Tzeench and Slaanesh doesn’t even get that. Their mark benefits are bad and the Cult units are outrageously costed.

  • Simon Chatterley

    What on earth is going on? This was far too sensible to be a Goat article.

    Smells of shenanigans.

    • E65

      Except for the bit about 18 Oblits!

      • 301stFeinminsterArmoured

        But then I can’t get the 3 Terminators, an Hellbrute, a ‘Smith, and 1-2 Achilles I want for Purge. not at 1850, at any rate, and with that, I can field up to 24.

  • Jonathon West

    It’s cool that this finally is a thing but I made the switch to 30k years ago, I’m not coming back. This still doesn’t fix enough. And Legions are still way cooler in 30k IMO

    • BurpinforDayz

      30k legions are cool , but so are the 40k ones now. More of a focus on gods in 40k for the traitor ones. I will say the WB in 30k are far more thematic.

    • Malisteen

      30k is a better game, but an even less affordable one, and it gets boring with so many marine on marine matches with both sides using essentially the same models. The chaos marine models might not be the best, but at least I can tell them apart from loyalists.

      • Jonathon West

        We have mechanicum players and Solar Auxilla in our group, cults too.

      • Alpharius

        Eh, 40K is basically Marine vs Marine too, with obnoxious showings by the occasional Xenos. And the Legion perks and rites result in very distinct and thematic differences between the various Marine forces.

        We have plenty of Mechanicum players, IG/Stormtrooper players get a huge slew of options between Militia and Auxilia and can use 40K plastics.

        And then “dead” codices in 40K like Tyranids, Orks and Dark Eldar, are all quite playable in 30K using their force organization chart. Even Necrons and Tau aren’t as horrible if you take formations out of the picture.

        So really, if you take off the blinders of “oh 30K is just 20-man tactical blobs trading volleys”, it has far more depth in options than pre-formation-madness 40K did, and the balanced tactical play is literally the most enjoyable Warhammer experience I’ve had since 2nd edition.

  • Steve Winyard

    World Eaters seem like they can pull off 1st turn charge quite easily!

    • nurglitch

      Also Black Legion Raptor Talons.

  • LunaWolf

    I know my Word Bearers are all changing their names to Alpharius for a while – their rules are fluffy, but do absolutely 0 for my typical builds. What I get for playing them off of a 30k style Legion structure I suppose.

    • Steve Winyard

      They have potential with the Deamonkin flesh hound formation they could give armies problems T1.

    • Alpharius

      You know you were one of us all along. We are all Alpharius.

    • jonathon

      I guess it would be too much for us to ask that GW were to simply remove the “all doubles are a perils” for Chaos aligned psykers using Malefic. Or hell, maybe for the 5 legions who would typically consort with the pantheon (BL, WB, TS, DG & EC) – hell, wouldn’t it have been great if they’d simply said “all Word Bearer’s (independant?) characters have the Daemon USR”? Would it be too powerful to give out that 5++ to a handful of models on the table?

      • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

        That would have been cool.

  • Agent OfBolas

    it’s totally NOT worth the price.

    First of all, it would be valid just for few months, up to a time when AoS 40k will happen – this release is just like books made for WHFB End Times.

    The second thing … it’s still referring to current CSM book. And this book is terrible. Full of dumb rules and limitations. Not to mention absurd pricing.

    • Alpharius

      Well I can see this book applying to any new codex since it just references units.

      As for 8th, I don’t know what to do to be honest. On one hand GW really screwed Fantasy players with a year full of expensive books and models only to throw it all away. On the other hand, I don’t think they will torpedo 40K the same way.

  • Zack Seiders

    basic thing with the death guard is now you can have virtually every marine be a type of plague marine now. From cheapo plague marines “regular csm with mark”, plague marine bikers, plague marine havocs “they also get relentless which will matter for them and the regular troops”, plague marine chosen “in case you want them to be running around with heavier weapons… which would make the tax unit VERY useful”, plague marine terminators “2+ armor, 5+ invuln, t5 and +5 fnp” plague marine chaos lord “4+ invuln, plus t 6 plus being able to jink on bikes 3 wounds (one warlord trait makes it 4 wounds.. other iwnd and eternal warrior)… I know there is a type of cheese that has nurgles tough… it is starting to smell like such.

  • nurglitch

    I’m very happy with my Night Lords. Even moreso now.

    • Steve Winyard

      With choosing nightfight, stealth and the +1 cover for non vehicles during night fight it makes them decently resilient going second.

      • ZeeLobby

        That’s true. It’s sad we need 2 USRs and a buff just to survive first turn, but that’s where 40K is right now.

      • nurglitch

        Being able to re-roll charge ranges is big too, I think.

        • Traitor8

          Kind of shows the sorry state of the faction when we’re happy to get +1 cover save 🙁

          • nurglitch

            Who wouldn’t be happy to get +1 cover saves, on top of Stealth? And the ability to choose Night Fighting? And re-rolling charge ranges?

          • Traitor8

            Well, you have to run the Murder Talon detachment for the re-roll charges so that’s no Obj-Secured troops. Night Fighting is first turn only right so yeah a +2 cover save for a turn is ok I guess but nothing too exciting tbh.

          • nurglitch

            The Objective Secured comes from the Chaos Warband, one of the core choices I think.

          • Karru

            Night Lords can take Raptor Talon and the Chaos Warband as their Core Choice. I personally would go with the Warband, since you can also take Raptors with it and give them Objective Secured. It also gives you more options in terms of units you can field.

          • nurglitch

            I have an army list based around both I made using the Black Crusade, although I suppose I’ll need a new auxiliary choice.

          • Damien Coté

            Dude… you should write articles. I love your positivity! Keep it up! Wish you were in my local gaming group haha

  • Steve Winyard

    This release improves chaos and brings us closer in competitiveness to space marines, I think realistically that was all we could have hoped for in this release.

  • ZeeLobby

    I’m glad legions finally got some love. Wish they could have made 1KSons OP for once, would have been nice. Especially since this will all be reworked 6 months from now anyway…

    • Djbz

      The basic Thousand Sons marines may be meh but most of their formations make their sorcerers very dangerous.
      3+ for them to cast most of the time, plus re-rolls for the inevitable spell familiar and the fact that all the psykers in the formation(s) can cast with a mastery level of (up to) 3.
      They actually outdo the Librarian conclave psychicly (which they should)

      • Indeed. The real test will be once Imperial Agents is released though. The guys in my area are hoping to spam sisters of silence and Callexus assassins to hard counter the psyker armies. If they can do that, then Thousand Sons will largely be rubbish.

        • ZeeLobby

          LoL. Yeah… Maybe i’ll hold off on buying any.

          • nurglitch

            I feel like common Thousand Suns marines with bolters will make life pretty hard for Sisters of Silence.

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah. They’re just so expensive and easy to remove. I don’t see it being that hard to get a collexus or SoS where it needs to be.

          • BurpinforDayz

            Thousands Sons are the true slayers of the Nuns With Guns :P. (SoB of course).

          • ZeeLobby

            True. I’d be fine with seeing them across the table. Haha

      • ZeeLobby

        Yeah. I just miss the dust cans :(.

  • Alpharius

    I got like 30 2nd edition noise Marines. I think they are still too expensive after you add sonic weaponry, but split fire and +1S is cute.

    The Iron Warrior Oblits are also tank hunters for whatever that’s worth.

    • BurpinforDayz

      +1 strength and shred.

  • 301stFeinminsterArmoured

    IW Purge sounds like a thing now. A mean, nigh unkillable, thing.

    • nurglitch

      IW Purge?

      • 301stFeinminsterArmoured

        Purge Detachment, from Vraks. With Iron Warriors, even without Mark of Nurgle, you’d still get a wall of walkers, massed TEQ, and even without Quads and Achilles, you’d still lay on a world of hurt with up to 24 Oblits (but 8-16 is plenty, tbh). And everything potentially can have a 2+/5++/6+ fnp, depending on where you spend your points. Luckily, nothing in the list is Very Bulky, so if you choose to buy Land Raiders or bigger, you don’t need to foot-slog.

  • gbc343

    I know the rules are trying to sell the Iron Warriors as siege masters with tank hunter Havoc/Obliterator and all but I really see them as more of a fortification and objective sitter. I just can’t quite see them matching Imperial Fists in terms of siege breakers on the table top. Or matching the assualt prowess of Night Lords or World Eaters. But in a fortifcaiton they will very difficult to move, along with bonuses to Barrage and Ordnance.

    That said I do find it hilarious that Emperors Children actually have the potential to arguably be more durable than Death Guard. But then again I like how they are moving them back to the idea of plague carriers, with options for better poison with clouds of flies and the ability to create plague zombies without Typhus.

    For Word Bearers someone is really going to at least playtest whether they make better Possessed Marine armies than Crimson Slaughter, though to be frank I never really pictured WB as a mass Possessed force.

    Maybe there is a fluff article I am missing.

    • BeastOfShadow

      I think the whole World Bearer = massed Possessed thing has been a thing they’re pushing since the First Heretic World Bearers book.

      • gbc343

        Oh Yeah I forgot about that. The one with the cover with the Possessed fighting the Custode. I guess thats true.

        I just assumed they were going to go with the heavy buffs for apostles with the option for massed cultists to serve as cannon fodder with big buffs to daemon summoning.

        Perhaps they did it this way to make sure every faction felt unique. Otherwise there would be some overlap with Alpha Legion and Thousand Sons in terms of rules.

        Now they are the only Legion that can at least say mass possessed.

  • ncathers

    The III’rd are in 3rd place. I dig it.

  • disqus_CktyL7rKWJ

    I feel sorry for you, man. Obviously this need to set yourself above your fellow hobbyists by means of fake, condescending pity is a way to compensate deep-seated life issues I wouldn’t want to cope with. If 40k doesn’t provide you the self-affirmation you so desperately crave, maybe you should try to listen to substantiated gaming advise instead of downplaying it as WAAC-devilry?

    • Alpharius

      Why bother, the guy is an unending pall of negativity over everything Chaos, and kinder souls than mine have tried what you suggest. His gaming experience seems governed by the most potent of potent, for which I am genuinely sympathetic.

      • Nyyppä

        Hey, I’m not responsible for you thinking that reality is negativity.

    • Nyyppä

      Well, since you think wanting some semblance of balance in the game makes me all that in your eyes then I guess I am all that in your eyes.

  • FF5271

    Missed the mark on Night lords evaluation. Night fighting all the time and the rule that gives minus to opponent save effectively means minus 2 all the time when being shot at then charged…..

    • jonathon

      it isn’t night fight all the time, just the option to make it night fight turn one by default, which yes improves that coversave to a 5+ in the open. The biggest problem is of course the fact that the bulk of their rules surround fear – Sure it’ll be nice to punch Tau and eldar in the face with them hitting back on 5’s but was that ever really a concern? Getting there is still a problem even with a boost to coversaves. And as we all know, the imperium ain’t afraid of no….thing…

      • FF5271

        I would say there is an errata on the way. The Nocturnal Warfare says in part, If the Night Lords player wishes the Night Fighting rules to take effect, they are automatically successful, there is no need to roll. While the night fighting rules are in effect, ….the cover is -1 etc,…… In the main rules there is a roll of a 4 plus on turn 1 and if it fails turn 5 it is done again. My point is I think there is a bit of grey area that will need to be addressed. It still is not a bad group with the right build. I just think the assessment of it being near the bottom is too early much as those at the top.

        • Traitor8

          If there was the ability to extend Night Fighting that would be really cool! Unfortunately I believe the rule was changed in 7E to only one roll at the start of the game.

  • Frag. we’re not getting the basilisk back.

    Oh well. IA 13, I love you even more.

  • Nyyppä

    All I want is a fair chance for all factions. TS are too costly. Nurgle are ok the rest of the legions seem just weak. I play nids and CSM does not impress.

  • Aaron

    I am not a typical cheese player, but I can see some potential here, a minimal CAD of either word bearers or alpha legion can be powerful eg: Alpha legion: tooled up chaos lord, 2 squads of chosen with melta/plasma= outflanking awesomeness without taking Huron or Ahriman, also big tarpits of outflanking cultists lead by a minimalist dark apostle is just annoying (maybe buy a meltabomb for the apostle)

    Word Bearers: 2 Daemon princes ML3 with spell familiars, both using maleific= daemon spam
    Iron Warriors: 1 sorcerer; however you normally kit one, tonnes of scoring deepstriking obliterators