Warmachine Errata Hopes & the Next Months

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The Warma-Hordes errata is around the corner. What has been revealed so far and what we most want from Immoren-Santa?

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What We Know?

We know a few things from the few insiders that were  about the errata. Skorne is getting some love, Cryx is going to be more survivable to ranged armies, and each faction may see a small adjustment to their best/worst models.

Wow is all I can say. In my years of playing Warhammer Fantasy I was always stuck with an armybook for years at a time untill an update came out. I can say I am excited about a living faction ruleset that PP is proposing. This model that I bought is kind of lackluster, no worries in 6 months time it might have cool new bonuses.

skorne

Skorne:
Skorne really came out of the gate stumbling. I am never a naysayer about any faction. But, they do have some options that are not ideal. You are pretty much locked into a Gladiator for every list. Most of the casters don’t have a real presence on the field beside one key spell. Comparing factions can be tricky and caster comparison is even tear inducing but, skorne really had some limitations that some of the other factions didn’t feel.

cryx

Cryx:
Does Cryx really need some love? Probably. Skarre1 went from buffing a whole army to buffing a few models, Banes lost stealth, and infantry across the board are less prominent in the heavy meta. Outside retribution sentinels there are few auto include infantry in any army let alone the infantry based cryx. Banes are to slow, Mechanithralls can’t hit anything if they get there, and cryx jacks die to shooting let alone heavy retaliations. It is hard to swallow 10 points for a slayer if you look over to your buddies jack stable and see a mad dog for 7.

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Errata Wishlist by Faction:

Cygnar: Kara could lose something…maybe limit her battlegroup to lights. Kraye could use a buff, possibly a extra focus and point of ARM. Stormguard could use a discount or a point of ARM while Stormlances could use a DEF nerf.

Cryx: Would love to see stealth or a SPD buff on banes. If Tartarus could give +2 SPD again it would solve some issues. Maybe remove the upkeep from Lich2’s cloud to make him playable again.

Khador: I have seen rumored that Kovnik Joe would only give +2 instead of boosted attack rolls to winter guard which is a change I agree with. I could see Mad Dog going up a point or Karchev losing 10 jack points.

Menoth: Zealots could use some love as well as errants in general. Harbringer feat could maybe a fixed value instead of control area to bring her back to prominence such as 15″.

Mercenaries: Steelhead cavalry need to be brought back to MKII level of power. Constance Blaze could use the removal of morrowan on her spells so she could help other merc models.

Circle: Circle needs some major tuning. Tuna is a terrible play experience followed closely by Wurmwood. If you don’t have the tools to deal with these casters you are in for a sad time. The release notes for Kaya3 is synergy on her card which is insane in that faction…they new it was overpowered in MKII and is why Bradigus was nerfed to oblivion. Seeing sentry stones having a change like now combat action when a tree is put into play would be nice.

Legion: No combat action for the tentacle is put into play is the general consensus for the Hellmouth. I think more warlocks would see the table if safeguard animus or something similar would be on the protector for an animus. Removing Lylyth3s ability to trample and shoot could be something to consider.

Skorne: Can’t wait for the changes. I would love to see the armor buff back on the Krea animus.

Trolls: I think Trolls are pretty healthy. I could see a MadrakII limit on # of times he can chainsaw through the world but, I am not sure it is needed.

Minions: I like where Gatormen are. Pigs could probably use a small tweak or two.

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Theme Forces:

As it is hard enough to balance models today, soon factions will have access to their theme books. This could provide whole new things to consider with January’s errata. Was this model not buffed because it will be free most of the time, Why did these guys get a point increase,etc??? The errata books will definitely bring some fresh life into the Warmachine/Hordes meta. I have played a few games with Kingmaker, while it does limit what I can take, I still think it is a powerful combination it can bring to the field.

As of right now the next 3 theme books are Trolls, Menoth, Circle. I am not looking forward to Circle getting any love but, I am interested in what Trolls and Menoth might be getting.

Revenant’s Final Thought:

~It is a great time to be thinking of army lists. Fresh stats and books will be coming out in these next few months.

  • euansmith

    It strikes me that companies could do with splitting their rules and fluff in to separate books; so that the rules could be updated inexpensively as a pamphlet, while the fluff could be produced a lavish tomes. I used to really like the old Kings of War/Warpath rules that were released as little A6 with around 32 pages of rules and army lists.

    • Malisteen

      Putting fluff and rules in the same book is how you get fluff players to pay for rules, and rules players to pay for fluff. Split them, and not as many people will buy either. Fluff book sales in particular will suffer, to the point that ‘lavish tomes’ won’t really be feasible.

      • SupPupPup

        Do we have any examples backing that up? Seems a bit like guesswork.

      • euansmith

        Good point ;).

        The flip side is that you then end up with a big fluff book with out of date rules because they have been errattaed.

        I guess they could do the basic rules with fluff, but only put the unit rules on the cards, so that could they could be upgraded separately.

        Alternatively, the fluff aspect could be handled by campaign books.

        Though, with the release of apps; maybe physical rule books will become less of an issue.

        • Red_Five_Standing_By

          Warmachine doesn’t need physical rules any more between the rules PDF and the app.

          Same with Sigmar.

          It is the future.

          • petrow84

            Indeed. My only beef with War room is that there is no Windows Phone or Desktop port for it 🙁

    • ZeeLobby

      It works for PP. I know players who only purchase their faction card packs and the yearly update pack. Command books are mostly fluff at this point.

      • euansmith

        Do the Command Books contain the Theme Lists?

        • ZeeLobby

          Yeah. But they’re available on war room, and I’ve seen people print them off. Never had a case of “you must own book”. Now if they finally make theme lists themey instead if just avenues to power game, the fluff books and theme lists should have a shared audience anyway.

          • Hawt Dawg

            THREE YEARS!

          • ZeeLobby

            Haha. Three years for what?

          • Hawt Dawg

            To make Skorne suck even more…

          • Red_Five_Standing_By

            Lol.

          • ZeeLobby

            Nothing is flawless. If rather have them spend 3 years and get one faction and a couple casters wrong then spend zero time and create a whole system whose rules were written on the back of a napkin.

          • OldHat

            Tell that to us Skorne players who spend just as much on the hobby as anyone and continually get the shaft. 😛

          • zeno666

            Skorne was in a very good place in Mk1.
            And in a good place in Mk2 IMHO. There was some really strong lists. But sure, others where better.
            But I agree PP sure screwed most of the faction up in Mk3 thats for sure.
            Most of the good stuff was, again, overcorrected.
            And suddenly everything is just mediocre at best.

            Me myself is very happy to hear that the free charges are coming back, and that the Ancestral Guardians get the resonance-rule back.
            I was having a lot of “luck” with my Zaal1 lists in Mk2 😉

          • OldHat

            I was bottom rung in Mk2 and only got wins on the back of the usual Skorne tricks, which were very limited. So, I just see no future for myself in Warmahordes. For me, personally, it peaked. Right now, too many other games are pulling me towards them – Blood Bowl, 30k, 40k, AoS, X-Wing. Just tough to justify keeping them, even if they get a crazy good buff.

          • zeno666

            Perhaps its not the game for you then.
            You’ll have fun with X-Wing (once you get past the whole card thing…), its a good game!

          • OldHat

            I have been playing X-Wing for years now. lol I do enjoy it, even if it has some quirks that irk me. Right now, my big passion is moving towards the hobby end vs gaming. Starting a Kill Team project entirely based on painting it, with playing secondary. Maybe I am getting old. 😀

          • Hawt Dawg

            Isn’t the faction more boring than bad? I mean there is not much that pops up that screams granite, kicking hard, or shenanigany.

          • zeno666

            There are some boring stuff in Skorne for sure.
            And when facing Skorne I’m not really thinking “Darn I might face that/those X, I need a plan for those.”.
            Molik Kharn was sweet in Mk2, but he got nerfed a bit.
            Tiberion is still good, perhaps even better than in Mk2.
            And the infantry…. just field Nihilators :

          • Hawt Dawg

            Yes Will, I know you defend your game but really, do not brag about it and then apologize. MK3 is an awesome game, but lots of stuff missed the mark.

            Not for me though, Minions got a huge boost for the most part.

          • ZeeLobby

            Huh? I’m not apologizing for anything. 3 years if a small internal team play testing and I think they did a pretty good job. Sure once the player pool expanded to the thousands of WMH players it was going to be broken. I’m shocked so little was leaked of mk 3, but that’s likely due to the small number those actually in the know.

            Besides that’s point what’s wrong with having pros and cons for everything. I mean I realize GW fanboys don’t… But I still have hope for them.

          • Hawt Dawg

            I am the greatest fisherman that evah lived!

            I agree, but modesty is better than full-out failed brag (three years).

    • Gridloc

      Infinity does this, rules are free, same with updates, you can buy book with rules, but mostly you buy for the fluff. They seem to be doing pretty good, so business model can’t be that bad.

    • vladmech

      Warmachine/Horde rules are free online now though and outside of a bit of blurbs about the models featured in Prime/Primal, the rulebooks don’t really have fluff in them anymore. Almost all fluff and the whole living storyline is now presented through their Skull Island X novels and novellas.

      • Shawn

        That’s a shame, because I like to read other stuff as well. I page or two about a caster or unit, for that quick story seemed like a good idea. Then if you want to read about major adventures, then head to the print division.

  • Frank

    The sweeping, devastating nerfs Skorne received were pretty demoralizing for me. They’re my favorite faction, but in their current state they are just so unfun. The state of the faction is a big part of why I’ve lost interest in the game.

    • OldHat

      Same. Selling mine for this reason. The huge swing between editions and the mediocrity of the playest just made me lose my want to play Warmahordes. Hopefully, they get a huge bump in power so someone buys my army, since it is just gathering dust. 🙁

      • ZeeLobby

        I’m shocked people are so ready to drop. I mean every six months the playing field is re-leveled. Skorne won several events at the end of mk2. They received a beating in mk3, but they’re about to be brought back up. Just shocked that people are so flippant with their game purchases, especially when there’s a visible fix on the horizon.

        Now if you happen to have a very small number of opponents I could see getting rid of them make more sense.

        • Vitzh

          Skorne just didn’t have a rough start at Mk3. PP has done its best to see they’ve sucked for the majority of the history of the game. The brain trust in Seattle really pulled out all the stops for the third edition too.

          PP has been quite clear on this forever. It’s really Skorne players faults for not listening 🙁

          • ZeeLobby

            Haha. Not saying that they haven’t been maligned, but now seems like the worst time to leave. Youve stuck it out for X years only to leave the game right before what might be a monumental update for the faction?

          • OldHat

            So, “monumental update for the faction” might really only equate to being the worst faction still, but less overall awful. No thanks. I am rather tired of my brilliant-looking faction with decent fluff (by Hordes standards) being the crap faction.

            On top of that, the game doesn’t have the best rep in my area and not a soul plays it anymore. Opting for 30k, 40k, X-Wing, Blood Bowl, and stuff like that. Just no sense in keeping the army when I know it won’t get the boost it deserves (or even needs). As Vitzh said, PP clearly doesn’t want to see Skorne be worth a crap on the table, or it wouldn’t have its long-standing history of Skornergy.

          • ZeeLobby

            I get it. Your edgy and cool for giving up right BEFORE the update. Trying to beat out those Warhammer Fantasy players that burned their armies after AoS dropped eh?

            Besides the joking, your second point has definitely merit. It’s hard to keep any system thriving when the community is dead . The whole reason our group has switched primarily to other systems and away from GW’s. It’s hard to find people who even want to play blood bowl. But I’m in a pretty competitive area and no one felt like dealing with the point-less AoS or the broken 40K.

          • euansmith

            CoughcoughChaosSpaceMarinescoughcough 😉

          • ZeeLobby

            Oh. I still have my CSM and Eldar despite years of mediocre releases. and at this point I’m just praying that one day they’ll see the table again

          • Shawn

            Why aren’t you playing Eldar? At least GW loves them, if no other faction.

          • ZeeLobby

            Lol. I’m positive I put Dark Eldar. Even my autocorrect suggests Eldar as the only way to play.

        • zeno666

          Haha yeah it doesn’t take a lot for people to rage quit.
          But more often than not those are just empty words. Guess they’re playing the martyr game and just want attention 😉

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah. Especially to quit now, before the errata even drops. Lol

          • Shawn

            Well, I kind of quit before the new edition. No one was playing in my area (they are now), and it lost some of the appeal that got me hooked to start with, primarily the hobby aspect, and I moved on to 40k.

            I still have my models and might play once in a blue moon with a friend or two, but battling xenos to save the galaxy from the Enemies of Mankind is more exciting. I’m also a bit miffed at the nerf the B13 and Nemo3 got. That certainly didn’t help win me over.

            I’ll also add, that while I thought some models should have been fixed in MkII, I don’t think an whole new edition was warranted. Warhammer 40k, is in desperate need of a new edition with balance, while Warmachine didn’t really need it.

          • ZeeLobby

            Mk3 didn’t really do all that much, I wouldn’t be shocked if most of the rebalancing was due to trying to make warjacks more attractive. I mean they were pretty rare in most factions. Usually taking the bare minimum just to fill caster points. When you make a change that big it probably has impact across the board. I also think doubling the points was a good idea. There were plenty of support units that were too good to cost two, but we’re two expensive at 3. Being able to bump them to 5 kind of fixed some of those issues.

            I was a big fan of nemo3 as well. alas…

  • Drew

    I can’t disagree more about the Gatormen. The Posse itself is badly in need of something. It’s a classic problem of “in MkII they were too good, so they overcorrected in MkIII.” They lost so much that I just don’t think they’re worth fielding at their price point.

    I was really excited to start playing Blindwater Congregation at the end of MkII, but I’ve been really disappointed by them in MkIII. Yes, I know, I can mix and match minions freely now, but I don’t want to do that since they haven’t given me a reason why these forces are suddenly working together. Until they explain why in the narrative Gators and Pigs are suddenly on the same team, I’m treating them as two separate lists.

    • zeno666

      I agree, the posse took an arrow to the knee. Overcorrected in Mk3.
      Perhaps an UA that grants Prey. That would be neat.

      • Hawt Dawg

        My two units agree!

        I only use mine with Maelok for som extra armour buffs.

    • JN7

      Pretty much every heavy infantry unit needs to go back to eight wounds. They wanna make MOW different, pop ’em up to 10.

  • zeno666

    Retribution of Scyrah could use some toning down as well.
    Their ‘jacks are semi-beasts since every single one of them have a special ability. Sort of like an animus.
    Also their halbardiers are among the best infantry in the game. But they don’t really pay for it.
    And yes, I’m salty 😉

  • petrow84

    I’m amazed, it’s missing, but I highly doubt that Caine2 will retain his attack modes – especially Trick Shot.

  • Josh Watkins

    Kara BG only lights? thats a harsh kick in her clam. Circle (IMO) needs more ways to incorporate stealth by capitalizing on all of the prowl. You have any idea how ridiculous it is trying to argue for a bit of concealment in an urban battlefield? My god when i’m setting up the battlefield at my LGS an I throw down a forest … hell a single tree even then my opponent knows exactly what faction I’m putting on the table lol. Skorn needs some spice, Ret needs to be smacked with a foam nerf bat and the khador mad dog needs to be taken outback an put down like the rabid dog it is.

  • JN7

    Trolls have their issues. It doesn’t make for exciting list building when every list starts with Stone + CA, and a Mauler. That is particularly irksome when it takes up 1/4 of your points. The lights are generally garbage as well.

  • b00gnish

    Indeed, tuna IS a terrible play experience. It’s a real pain in the behind to get that smell off your models 😉

  • Shawn

    I haven’t played a lot of mark three yet, nor have I played Kara. What’s wrong with her, that she would need to be nerfed?