Fall of Cadia: Imperial Characters Rules

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Some lucky gamers have the book in hand and the beans are spilling. Take a look at the heroes of the Imperium:

Rules via B&C’s goonbandito 1-11-2017

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St. Celestine

200pts, comes with her 2 Geminae Superia included.

  • HQ choice for Faction: Adepta Sororitas
  • 5wounds, up from 3 otherwise her statline is the same.. AND SHE HAS ETERNAL WARRIOR!!! (technically she doesn’t have the Shield of Faith special rule any more, and neither do the Geminae, but Celestine gets Adamantium Will to make up for it)
  • The Ardent Blade now has the Armourbane rule, otherwise the same.
  • Celestine gets a once per game Orbital Barrage called The Emperor’s Vengeance! Range Unlimited, S8, AP3, Assault 1, Barrage, Large Blast, Orbital.
  • Miraculous Intervention is unchanged from the ebook, other than that it specifies she can use Healing Tears to bring a Geminae back to life on the turn she ‘resurrects’
  • Geminae Superia are WS5, BS4, S3, T3, I4, 2W, 2A, Ld10, 3+ Armour
  • Celestine can join units along with her Geminae!!
  • Geminae have Divine Guardian rule. This gives them a 4+ Invuln, and whilst any of them are alive all wounds against Celestine are resolved against the closest Geminae instead!
  • Healing Tears: At the start of each of your turns, set up a single slain Geminae anywhere within 2″ of Celestine! Looks like mum isn’t the only one who can come back from the dead!

Saintly Blessings: Celestine can give a 12″ radius buff to friendly non-vehicle Army of the Imperium units at the start of each of your turns. Each buff can only be used once per game, and affect units based on their Battlefield Role (independent chars get effected as long as they stay in the unit):

  • HQ Units: Zealot until the start of the next turn
  • Troops: FNP 6+ until the start of next turn.  If models already have FNP, they get a +1 bonus to FNP instead…
  • Elites: Counter-Attack and Furious Charge until start of next turn
  • Fast Attack: Crusader and Fleet until start of next turn
  • Heavy Support: Relentless until start of next turn
  • Lord of War: It Will Not Die for the rest of the game.

In addition to all that, any army that contains Celestine (or is from a Wrathful Crusade formation or Castallens of the Imperium detachment) lets characters take items from the new Ecclesiarchy Relics list.  Choices include a 35pt Eternal Warrior relic, 15pt S4 AP2 pistol that ignores invulnerable saves, a 35pt relic that gives a 4+ invuln save and stops Deep Strikes within 12″ (if they scatter within 12″, auto mishap!) and a 30pt Power Sword that on a pass Ld Test becomes S+2, AP2.

Celestine, Inquistor Greyfax and Belisarius Cawl can be included as an HQ choice for any Army of the Imperium Combined Arms or Allied Detachments (specifically), regardless of faction! In addition, Belisarius Cawl can replace any Tech-Priest Dominus in any existing Cult Mechanicus Formation, and Inquisitor Greyfax can replace an Inquisitor in any Inquisitorial Formation.

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Belistarius Cawl

Belisarus Cawl (HQ, Cult Mechanicus) – 200pts

WS5, BS5, S5, T6, W5, I3, A3, Ld10, Sv 2+

 

Wargear:

  • Arc Scourge: S+1, AP4, Melee, Haywire, Master-Crafted, Machine Scourge: can re-roll the result of the Haywire rule
  • Solar Atomiser: Range 12″, S10, AP1, Assault D3, Master-crafted, Melta (this is his relic gun)
  • Master-crafted Power Axe
  • Mechadendrite Hive:  When a model with a Mechadendrite Hive makes it attacks, it makes an additional 2d6 attacks with its Mechadendrites (S4, AP-, Melee), and a single attack with its Dataspike (S User, AP-, Melee, Haywire), at the initiative 10 step.  Does not grant an additional Pile In Move.
  • Scryerskull
  • Refractor field

Special Rules

  • Canticles of the Omnissiah
  • Canticles of the Archmagos (see below)
  • Feel No Pain
  • Independent Character
  • Very Bulky
  • Artificer Self-repair Mechanisms: At the Start of each of your turns, Belisarius Cawl recovers D3 Wounds lost earlier in the battle
  • Warlord Trait – Masterwork Bionics: Belisarius Cawl can re-roll failed FNP rolls.

Belisarius Cawl also gets some new Canticles, called Canticles of the Archmagos.  They can only be used if he is on the battlefield, in exactly the same way as regular canticles, except they also affect friendly Army of the Imperium vehicles within 12″ of Belsarius even if they don’t have the Canticles of the Omnissiah rule.

Harmony of Metalurgy

  • 1-3 Units: It Will Not Die
  • 4-7 Units: It Will Not Die.  Make two ITWND rolls for affected units instead of only 1
  • 8+ Units: It Will Not Die.  Make three ITWND rolls for affected units instead of only 1

Utterance of Neutralisation

  • 1-3 Units: +1 Ballistic Skill
  • 4-7 Units: +2 Ballistic Skill
  • 8+ Units: +3 Ballistic Skill

War Hymnal of Fortitude

  • 1-3 Units: 6+ Invulnerable Save
  • 4-7 Units: 5+ Invulnerable Save
  • 8+ Units: 4+ Invulnerable Save

 

Celestine, Inquistor Greyfax and Belisarius Cawl can be included as an HQ choice for any Army of the Imperium Combined Arms or Allied Detachments (specifically), regardless of faction! In addition, Belisarius Cawl can replace any Tech-Priest Dominus in any existing Cult Mechanicus Formation, and Inquisitor Greyfax can replace an Inquisitor in any Inquisitorial Formation.

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Inquisitor Greyfax

Inquisitor Greyfax (HQ, Inquisition) – 150pts

  • Standard Inquisitor Statline, comes with power armour.
  • She also has a Master-crafted Condemmor Boltgun and a Master-crafted Power Sword, and a Psyocculum.  Frag, Krak and Psyk-out grenades
  • Preferred Enemy (Psykers).  Which is funny because…
  • Psyker Mastery Level 2!  I love the hypocrisy in that!  She is a true Inquistior
  • Indomitable Will: When making Deny the Witch attempts, she always counts as a higher mastery level than the enemy psyker.
  • Warlord Trait is Master of Interrogation (the “enemy cannot set up infiltrators within 24” one)
  • She always knows the Aura of Oppression psychic power, and can generate two more from Telepathy.
  • Aura of Oppression: WC 1.  Malediction that targets a single non-vehicle unit, which must immediately take a Pinning Test.  Even if they pass, they cannot Run, Turbo-boost, Sweeping Advance or Overwatch whilst the power is in effect.  Alternatively, you can choose to manifest it at WC3, in which case it targets all enemy non-vehicle units within 12″.

Celestine, Inquistor Greyfax and Belisarius Cawl can be included as an HQ choice for any Army of the Imperium Combined Arms or Allied Detachments (specifically), regardless of faction! In addition, Belisarius Cawl can replace any Tech-Priest Dominus in any existing Cult Mechanicus Formation, and Inquisitor Greyfax can replace an Inquisitor in any Inquisitorial Formation.

~How do you think these stack up?

  • Glenn Gkjgkjg

    Sweet

  • Luca Lacchini

    Celestine and Belisarius have awesome stats for their point costs. Almost too good, and I’m (Kill Team excluded) an Imperial kind of player…

    • J Mad

      For 200pts I’d say its on par with a Riptide. She will live longer but do less damage.

      The biggest thing she has DS potential and you can just DS her in a backfield to harass all game.

      But buy her self she wont do as much damage as many other 200pt units will.

  • Painjunky

    I hope the CSM and xenos characters get an equal amount of super-awesome-cheese-buff-special rules too.

    • euansmith

      Hope leads to disappointment.

      • Shawn

        Disappointment leads to fear, and fear leads to the….oh wait…never mind.

    • mrbleak

      Hope, in reality, is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.
      – Friedrich Nietzsche

    • Adam Upson

      More fun Ork characters please, I’m not to fussed about the cheesiness but we need some awesome unique special rules.

      • ZeeLobby

        Just wait for 8th edition’s Orruks!

    • Gabor Fazekas

      well the removed darkeldar and IG characters could get but im sure they wont, just countinue being squatted

      • Harthelion

        Cawl and Celestine are characters that can be used as HQs for any army of the imperium.

    • Josh Felstead

      There’s already Magnus and he’s badass!

    • Plaguenumber3

      Wrath of Magnus.
      Also no matter what white dwarf says, Abbie v Celestine, abbie wins.

    • Deryk Rodwell

      Ummm Magnus the Red????

  • Jerin Price

    This is just ridiculous. Anyone writing a fandex that had suggested anything half this powerful for the cost would be instantly derided for making something so unbalanced. These HQ’S (mind you) far outclassed many LOW choices. Imotek, grimnar, the avatar of Khaine.

    I am a huge GW fan boy. Self professed, and this blatant power creep sells mentality is disgusting and the utterl antithesis of game balance.

    • Gabor Fazekas

      most probably cus Khaine sucks unfortunatelly 🙁 only good in very specific builds (melee aspects mass storm guardians in raiders and Wraithlords), but thats weakish even against fun BA army with the new rules

    • Frank Krifka

      we saw the sort of thing in WHFB with some serious power creep in the new models and combined dexes. The triple elf build alone were insanely powerful for their cost.

      But like the ET, I expect this power creep will be greatly re-balanced when 8th drops. If the rumors and precident tell us anything about how 8th is going to look re: army selection.

  • Christie Bryden

    I do find some of this a bit silly, chaos clearly looked like they were trying not to make something too op (even with magnus) yet… a constantly regenerating flying troop that comes back from the dead and has eternal warrior? yet they couldnt make thousand sons 5 points cheeper?

    • Victor Hartmann

      Two things.

      Generally, GW hasn’t been changing the points costs of units in established codexes. So there’s no point wishing for that, it’s not happening until new codexes are released in 8th Edition.

      Second, Magnus is mighty. He can wreck armies single handedly. But that’s not really my point. My point is, there are more books coming out right? I fully expect something ridiculously powerful for Chaos that’s similar to the Triumvirate (although maybe Magnus really was their balance point). Xenos too but not sure how that would fit into the current sequence.

      • ZeeLobby

        Eh. I totally expect some Chaos triumvirate that slightly more expensive and worse. But you made two good points.

        I doubt we’ll see any Xenos until 8th though, and I’m praying 8th just drops with a Commanders Handbook rather than waiting 4 years for all faction codexes to be released.

        • Djbz

          Abaddon, Kharn, Ahriman, Typhus and Lucius
          Abaddon must be warlord and all the characters get to re-roll on the eye of the god’s table……
          (And hatred)

          • ZeeLobby

            Haha. Sounds about right. Where is Lucius anyway? Haven’t seen anything about him in a while, but maybe it’s because they’re just reworking Slaanesh still.

          • Karru

            Nah, it’s going to be even worse than that. Lords of the Black Crusade. It will be a new cool looking plastic release, costs around 100€ because it will include Abaddon, 3 Chaos Lords and 1 Sorcerer. It will be the only way to get a new plastic Abaddon mind you.

            As for the rules, Khorne Lord will be 200pts, 3+ save, 5++, Lord stat line except +1 attack and has an AP2 Unwieldy Daemon Weapon that rolls 2D6 for extra attacks, on doubles does nothing but suffers one automatic wound on himself.

            Nurgle Lord 225pts will have 3+/5++ save, FNP 5+. CC weapon that has Poisoned 4+ and AP4, also a Daemon Weapon. Lord stat line still except Toughness 6 with the Mark of Nurgle.

            Slaanesh Lord 200pts, 3+/5++ save, Lord Stat line but +1 Initiative and WS base. Daemon Weapon that has AP- but Instant Death in a Challenge.

            Tzeentch Sorcerer, costs 250pts. Mastery Level 3, but can only take powers from the Tzeentch Discipline. 3+/4++ with the Mark of Tzeentch. Can manifest Warp Charges on a 3+. Has a Force Staff.

            If they are in a unit together with Abaddon, gain Fearless, Hatred (Imperium) and gain extra roll on the Boon Table that they have to take.

          • Harthelion

            So sad this is so possible =/

          • Price

            You left out that they WON’T ignore Spawn / Dark Apotheosis

          • Karru

            It’s not like they can normally do so.

      • Christie Bryden

        well magnus himself is acualy awesome, have people not realized how powerful a level 5 psycher who ignores perils and does things on a 2 plus witha streangth d beam, monsterus flyier and a weapon that turns things into spawn is?

        I was more meaning the thousand sons themselves, since the rubric marines replace them they could have done with a lower point cost.

        • Harthelion

          Yeah Magnus is pretty OP to me, for the right points. To me Rubrics are good priced because of all the stuff they have. The only points I think are bad with rubrics are:
          – flamers cost 7 pts, just to much (in the base price we are already paying the AP upgrade)
          -You can only take the soulreaper in a unit of 10 like if rubrics were a horde type unit (of course GW needs to mock us csm players). Hope they fix it in a errata like in Noise Marines.(had same problem)

          -Maybe the sorcerer could be some points cheaper or at least be able to generate 1 extra power staying as ML1 or something like that because the CSM Tzeentch’s primaris sucks so much

        • Victor Hartmann

          Agreed on Magnus. I know some pretty good Chaos players and they are literally cackling with glee over all they can do with Magnus. I pity the poor shmoos who run into those guys. Their discussions have already switched from “what can we do with Magnus” to “maybe we shouldn’t play him since it won’t be any fun for our opponents”.

          True, they could have costed the Rubric marines down since they are a new entry. On the other hand, they’re already better shooters (AP3) with more psychic options (not limited to 2 preselected powers) than Grey Knight Strike squads. Not as good in melee since Grey Knights aren’t limited to a Force Stave, but shooting is better this edition anyway. Plus, they have a 5++ Invulnerable save base while GK strikes have nada. The cost per model seems pretty fair.

          Thinking about it, they can easily gain 4++ Invulnerable saves if they cast blessings on themselves. And the sorcerer would be 4++ base due to Mark of Tzeentch so he’d improve to a 3++.

          23 pts a model seems almost cheap, all things considered. But I understand the frustration of being pointed out into a low model count army. GK units, Legion of the Damned, Scions, and others are in a similar boat. Too pricey for the current meta. Maybe next edition will rebalance points. Wouldn’t count on it though.

          • Christie Bryden

            however I must say iv been reading the new psychic powers, Some of them are really good, I feel people are over looking those too.

      • Kolobius

        I haven’t seen Magnus do this. We did an ITC tournament with 14 players. 1 brought Magnus and all 1k sons. He lost every game by a large margin. I played Dark Angels and took most of his wounds off while he was in the air using Black Knights Plasma Talon. Succeeded his grounding check but in the next turn he died to boltguns from a tactical squad

        • Victor Hartmann

          Any good unit can be played poorly and/or fall to bad luck. Bolt guns should only be wounding on a 6+. Magnus should be sporting a 3++ Invulnerable save at all times since that’s incredibly easy to do (thanks to Blessing of Tzeentch) while re-rolling 1s on his saves (thanks to Daemon of Tzeentch). With 7 wounds (and Eternal Warrior plus It Will Not Die) and flying around all the time, killing Magnus should be very difficult. Very difficult indeed.

          Meanwhile, casting 5 powers a turn (many of which are highly effective – including ranged D and being able to take over your best shooters and use them against you), harnessing on a 2+, never suffering Perils of the Warp, having the Omniscient Eye so nothing can hide from his attacks . . . Magnus should have no trouble wreaking havoc.

          Sorry, I don’t think Magnus was the weak link here.

          • Kolobius

            He rolled a LOT of 2s. And we were discussing that point. He can reroll 1s and has the 3++ but nothing to do about 2s. At least that was my game. His other 2 games I know he lost and Magnus died but I don’t know how

          • Victor Hartmann

            Sometimes the dice are against you and there’s not much you can do. Frustrating at times but also occasionally epic. The lone hero standing up against incredible odds or the arrogant warrior brought low by the trenching shovels of the guard. Gotta roll the dice and take our chances.

    • piglette

      Don’t worry, chaos will get a new Cadia supplement that grants the fear special rule to all units- at no cost!

  • MarcoT

    Belistarius Cawl is an independant character? With those stats and rules? Ok…. He’s rediculous on its own, let alone with those Utterance of Neutralisation shenanigans.

    Celestine looks cool though. Powerful, but cool.

    • Prisoner 42

      How do you kill this guy d3 wounds back I’m a mechanicum fan but I’d feel a bit guilty bringing him.

      • Yout Elling

        Forceweapons, instakills him.

        • Prisoner 42

          Yea guess that would work can you look out sir force and D weapons? Celestine seems like you’d never hit her with the body guards coming back to life each turn as well as being hidden inside another unit.

          • Djbz

            You can look out sir almost anything, Force and D weapons included.
            Unless you are in a challenge. (But you’d need a character that’s powerful enough to kill him and/or survive his return attacks)
            No fearless though, so a sweeping advance could kill him…

          • Prisoner 42

            He also has 2d6 +1 initiative 10 attacks could be useful in a challenge if you roll high.

        • Jared van Kell

          Indeed. He can still be insta-killed by strength D weapons and any weapon or rule that causes instant death.

      • Mr.Gold

        I forsee many people taking him in a War Convecation (free upgrade one), giving all the mechanicum +3 to BS, a 4++ Save etc… combine that with the regular canticles and that in this formation the Knight also has the canticles special rule, this will hurt…

    • Djbz

      What really gets me about that is that there are monstrous creatures that are weaker and less durable that cost similar but can’t hide in a unit so can be focus fired easily.
      (Only upside is his T6 will almost always be knocked down because of majority toughness rules)

      • OldHat

        Could tuck him into Kataphron (T5) or Kastelans (T7) to make it not as much a detriment as say T3 or T4.

        • Djbz

          Kastellans can’t be joined because they’re monsrous creatures.
          Unless using that one formation that allows it,

  • 40KstillRulesTheTT

    Greyfax is fine, but the other 2 I think are for “apocalypse games” only, or at least very large games like 3000 points.

  • Maitre Lord Ironfist

    I now have something outside of Dominions that is awesome? x)

    • Reven

      Jacobus 😀

  • ZeeLobby

    Hoping this is a last hurrah before 8th changes point costs for everything cause these seem ridiculous for their cost… Just highlights Imperial favoritism to it’s fullest. Based on their latest financials their fanbase may simply not care about rules though. This game might just not be for me anymore :/.

    • Moonsaves

      I’d love a 40k General’s Handbook that totally changes point values for everything. That way it’d be easy for Forgeworld to do an update and do the same for their own stuff, too.

      • ZeeLobby

        Yeah. I’m hoping that’s where we head, cause nothing I’ve seen so far screams “we’ve thought about the imbalances of the game”. So I’m expecting special characters to get more and more OP (just wait for the first Imperial primarch with GMC XD), and then hopefully they’re toned down by the rules, costly in points or simply removed when 8th drops.

        • Hedwerx

          Next release is a real-life, man portable, Hellfire missile. It’s 1850 points and you just fire it at the table after your opponent sets up.

    • Matthew

      Just highlights Imperial favoritism to it’s fullest.

      Have you faced Eldar, Tau, or Necron? Wrathknights are one of the best units in the game with a point cost that is criminal. Tau Riptide formation is stupid good, and the Necron decrion is almost unkillable.

      Imperial favoritism when xeno armies are some of the best in the game? Cry more why don’t you.

      • ZeeLobby

        That’s cute you can cherry pick. And favoritism as in good units added year round. Necrons are great but when’s the last time they’ve gotten any update that’s been interesting?

        And of course your ignoring Tyranids, DE, Orks, AM, etc. But you didn’t come here to discuss. You came here to complain about complaining.

        • Matthew

          As opposed to ignoring obvious truths? Alright, i won’t Cherry pick. Let’s see… How much D do eldar get again? How about Wrathspiders? Or Bikers? Or the Aspect shrines?

          How about RP on Wraiths?

          Ever face 2 Stormsurges in one game? Or Overwatch shannagains with Tau? How about marker lights that don’t even allow cover saves?

          Or are these examples of ‘okay’ OP units, but if another army gets units that are anywhere near as good it’s not okay? These units exist, this is the power armies are up against, they need something to compete.

          You say imperial favoritism, I say leveling the playing field. Just a matter of perspective really.

          • ZeeLobby

            The fact that you still consider Tau OP is laughable. They’ve not been a top competitive army in a long while. Drone net or 5 riptides being the preferred load out over two stormsurges.

            Necrons are definitely a strong army. God forbid Imperials have a strong opponent (or now Ally?).

            Eldar are broken. They’ve been broken and have been since their book came out.

            But none of these get updates throughout the year, each of which is something ranging from good to great. And of course you ignored half the playing field that get no updates and are downright dismal (listed above) or factions like CSM that get updates but still won’t compete. That’s what cherry picking is. To say that GW doesn’t play Imperial favoritism is denying a century+ long truth. One that they continue to reinforce. They continue to try to level the playing field for imperials while ignoring the rest. That’s favoritism.

            Obviously you’ve just had bad play experiences within your local meta, and for that I’m sorry. Show me on your Imperial Knight where the mean Xenos player hit you. Lol.

          • Karru

            What about some facts? Let’s look at some facts. Here we go!

            Imperial Book releases during 7th edition:

            Codex: Space Marines
            Codex: Blood Angels
            Codex: Dark Angels
            Codex: Space Wolves
            Codex: Imperial Agents
            Codex: Skitarii
            Codex: Cult Mechanicus
            Codex: Imperial Knights
            Codex Deathwatch

            The following supplements were released during 7th edition for Imperials:

            Space Wolves: Champions of Fenris
            Astra Militarum: Cadia
            Space Marines: Flesh Tearers
            Space Marines: White Scars
            Space Marines: Raven Guard
            Space Marines: Angels of Death
            Warzone Damocles
            Warzone Fenris: Curse of the Wulfen
            Black Crusade Angel’s Bane
            Gathering Storm: Fall of Cadia
            Death Masque (Technically)

            Imperials also got the following new kits during 7th edition:

            Stormhawk Interceptor
            Updated Imperial Knight
            Entire Deathwatch model range
            The Triumvirate of the Imperium

            What did Necrons, Eldar and Tau got during 7th edition:

            Codex: Craftworlds Eldar
            Codex. Dark Eldar
            Codex: Harlequins
            Codex: Necrons
            Codex: Tau Empire

            The following Supplements were released for the previously mentioned armies:

            Warzone Damocles
            Death Masque Campaign (technically)

            Eldar, Tau and Necrons also got the following new kits:

            Tau KV128 Stormsurge
            XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuit
            Fire Warrior Breachers
            Eldar Warlock/Farseer on Jetbike
            Harlequin Skyweavers
            Harlequin Solitaire
            Harlequin “Weavers”

            Starting to see the favouritism? This is not “levelling the playing field”. Space Marines already have the tools to deal with the Eldar BS. They have Grav, Grav counters both Wraithknight and Jetbike Spam. All Campaign releases included Imperials in some way. So yes, there is favouritism going on here and it is aimed at Imperium.

          • NNextremNN

            Even as Tau player I don’t care that they get much more which they can much more easily ally. And I agree that those HQ models are OP but my real question is “How long did this take to type/research?”

          • Karru

            Maybe 30 minutes. I am a walking GW wiki when it comes to releases, since I’m always looking for excuses to start new armies so I study them a lot. All I usually have to do is go quickly fact check before I open my mouth. Of course, usually when I think I am right I mix it up with something similar very easily.

          • NNextremNN

            That’s incredible I wouldn’t even knew for what I should google to get all this. I aspire to be like you one day … on a second thought maybe not XD … just kidding.

          • Karru

            It’s one of those things that amaze people, but then you realise how utterly useless it is in real life and suddenly it’s not that great. 😀

          • NNextremNN

            It’s part of your hobby so it’s not useless. Anyone knows something others would think is useless.

          • The Rout

            There is definitely favouritism towards imperials but that’s based on sales so it actually OUR favouritism. Maybe not yours but the community made this decision and continues to make it with their wallets.

            We cant really be angry at GW for giving us what we so clearly want.

            They are trying to level the playing field though, chaos gets a lot of (admittedly kind of lack luster) releases. Hopefully xenos will get their time in the sun this year.

            Modern GW really is trying, give them time 🙂

          • Karru

            I was just arguing against Matthew’s comment about GW “not favouring Imperials”. I know that they do it because we “want” to. They are the most supported faction so of course people gravitate towards it.

            I’m still hoping for more fun Ork releases. I’d love to see a Kommand/Tank Busta dual kit or new kits for the ancient fast attack choices Orks have, Warbuggies and Deffkoptas.

            I personally don’t really care that much about rule releases these days. I don’t care that they release so much Imperials, but I would like to see more updated model kits, like the Ork kits I mentioned. Then there are the Eldar Aspect Warriors, Guard Infantry and Heavy Weapon squads and Cult Marines for example.

            Current GW trend is to release more and more new kits instead of updating old ones. They release a bunch of plastic characters and clampacks but they ignore the ageing models completely. I get it, it’s better to sell something new than update something old and hope that people buy it. Even if it was just 1 updated kit per release, I’d be happy.

          • The Rout

            Oh i know i was agreeing with you, there definitely is favouritism but its also pragmatism. And i definitely agree with what youre saying about kits. Wolves got loads of new HQ kits except the one i actually wanted, Ragnar.

            I started playing this game and this army because of his books and ive never owned his model because its THAT UGLY!

          • ZeeLobby

            It’s really theirs though. Sure they show favoritism to Imperials because of sales, but that’s their choice. If anyone is going to break the cycle it has to be them. You can’t sell an ipad and piece of paper for similar prices and then expect people to suddenly start buying the paper, lol.

          • Joshua Gregory

            Maybe they’re hoping we might just be appreciative of some of the fantastic models they release for us to collect and paint…as opposed to immediately complaining about how any given release didn’t quite go this or that persons way, based on what that individual currently collects and/or wants to be released from the fluff.

          • ZeeLobby

            Haha. Thats quaint that you think they care about our complaints when they’re sales are up, and they’re secretly just pining for us to show our appreciation to them. That poor poor GW :(. There’s enough people praising them. Nothing wrong with feeling that your faction is unsupported either. I’d argue the whole game would be better if all factions saw equal love year round. That’s all.

          • Joshua Gregory

            I didn’t write that they cared about our complaints.
            I implied that they’re perhaps far more interested in the community praising the new releases from a hobby standpoint, and are far less interested in people complaining about rules balances’ after every new release.
            It’s not balanced in the fluff, so why does it need to be balanced on the tabletop?
            If you don’t like that fact then you need to grow up. It’s a tabletop game for crying out loud, you win some and you lose some, take your hits and wins as they come.

          • ZeeLobby

            I mean actually the models directly contradict the fluff as far as balance goes. There’s no way an Imperial player ever feels “trapped on all sides, about to meet their doom”. If anything it’s like the Great Crusade never floundered and they’re just plowing through the final pockets of resistance, lol.

            All that said, you seem be having a similarly passionate discussion about “a tabletop game for crying out loud”. Personally I’d have no issue if I won some and lose some. It’s when I win 10% and lose 90% with a faction that I used to win at least 50/50 with, that I have issues. Most people who have no issues with this play armies that simply don’t have this issue. But I’ve had 2 Ork players that were super narrative/fluffly players leave the game because they simply never win at this point. Add that to the fact that they haven’t seen anything interesting for their faction in years, and should we not feel bad for them?

          • Joshua Gregory

            I feel bad for the Ork player, but that’s because on a personal level they’re both the most fun to play both with and against.

            On this release these characters make sense to me, the imperium would send it’s best to defend a planet from a crusade hell bent on the destruction of the imperium. Are they under-costed? Probably, but this might be good as people will actually field the models as who they are in their actual lists.
            I play Raven Guard and Shrike hasn’t been redone to reflect he’s a chapter master, and still costs 185 points for 1 fear-causing model w/ Lighting claws…sure I think Shrike should be redone because I imagine a lot more people might field him if that were so. But he’s not defending Cadia, and he mostly go’s around saving IG troops in the fluff, so maybe they haven’t fleshed out how powerful he truly is, having said that I haven’t read that hardback that came out a couple months back.
            But I kind of don’t mind so much if GW is pushing stuff out constantly, it just gives me more of an incentive to paint something new and try a different army.

            What army are you playing with that now loses 90% of the time?

          • ZeeLobby

            Dark Eldar. They’re just in a dismal state right now, and I honestly don’t consider “just ally in Eldar” as a valid solution. Just because GW is likely to roll them into a single faction in the future, doesn’t mean I want to give in yet.

            It’s not the rate of stuff they’re pushing out, and this has nothing to do with the quality (which tends to be awesome). It’s just the inability for them to spread the love. AM, Orks, DE, etc. These factions are almost non-existant at my current store. People own them (those that didn’t sell them), but nobody plays them, because theres nothing new/exciting to try anymore.

            I’ve played every Dark Eldar formation to death, and the only way I get close games, is by asking every opponent to dumb down their lists. I personally love a mix of narrative and competitive play, and I want my opponents to bring their A game. If I do this (opponents are primarily Eldar, Admech, Tau, Daemons and SMs) the chances of winning just fall extremely short. It’s one thing when you lose repeatedly on turn 5, i can live with that. But when half your army is shot off the table repeatedly, it gets depressing. And most opponents aren’t OK with you building a wall of LoS blocking terrain on your side of the table, lol.

          • The Rout

            I get what you mean but if you were the CEO would you really risk profits for that ideal? Would/ could you really risk your company on the concept of “fairness”?

            It may way well work but it may well not, pouring money time and effort into projects that dont work would quickly kill the company. Codexes are fine because they are cheap but new model runs arent and without new models new codexes become less of a priority.

            I understand the frustration (even if ive never had to feel it myself) but i also understand that GWs hands are kind of tied.

          • ZeeLobby

            It depends how much I actually cared about the world I was creating, or the community that supported it. Good CEOs balance risk and reward. The assumption that a companies soul purpose is to just generate wealth is a false one. That’s definitely it’s biggest purpose, but other massive companies have also done a lot to insure that they offer the best products possible.

            I mean if GW never offered bad products, then we wouldn’t see the current boom in alternatives, so maybe it’s not a bad thing GW does this. It’s just disappointing for someone who doesn’t play any imperial faction.

            But their hands are definitely not tied by anyone but themselves. A good example of this is their reluctance to spend the resources to balance units within a codex, yet they spend many resources producing sculpts for sub-par units. If they just fixed the internal balance of units, sure it would involve initial costs, you may see units selling across a faction instead of just the several that are actually good. The ork walkers are a perfect example. Amazing sculpts, but hardly sold at our local GW cause the rules were just bad.

          • The Rout

            What you say is fine in theory but not in reality.

            In our scenario your the CEO, okay so you may care about the community and the integrity of the game. those are good things.

            Now tell me how you explain those concepts to your shareholders? Okay lets say you are really luck and your shareholders either trust you or share your ideals, that was lucky!

            Now tell me how you explain those changes to the bank?

            GW are trying we can likely agree on that but their are definitely restrictions to what they can and cant do. I for one believe they really are trying and im hoping that effort will bare fruit but its not as simple as a CEO making a choice unfortunately because its a company as well as a game.

          • ZeeLobby

            Those things are just as easily explainable as Kirby claiming that diversity on the board (originally asked concerning the age of it’s members) could only hurt the integrity of the company by deflecting remark (making it an issue of sex/race). If GW wasn’t having trouble attracting new players they would have never launched Vedros. There’s no reason a re-balancing of the game and factions couldn’t be word smithed into an increase in player base and size. They’re already planning on mixing things up in 8th, I mean how did they get that discussion going?

            As for the bank? No contract is entered without some understanding of costs and term length of profitable goals. Business loans are given with the clear expectation that profits will not necessarily be generated immediately. Not to mention the capital GW already has in place. They could definitely put forth a loan request stating that they may not be immediately profitable but will have a greater return on profits several years down the road, and put their capital as collateral, and most banks would be completely fine.

          • The Rout

            This is true but thats a few hurdles to jump for something when theres no way of knowing if its even worth the effort for the company.

            For the record i agree with you, i not only wish that xenos especially would get more support but i also wish there was more of them in terms of factions.

            But the problem is is that there are 2 main player bases, imperial and chaos. Everything else is kind of a niche within a niche to a greater or lesser degree which means the amount of support tends to match this.

            Codexes can and should be fixed but supporting things with models is pretty risky. Your example of the ork walkers is an excellent one. Beautiful models, terrible rules so no sale. Same but opposite issue with father grimnar. Pretty good rules (for a small game) but nobody liked the model so im guessing that doesnt sell.

            This means you are always aiming for the sweet spot of both model quality and rules but they tend to overcompensate on the latter hence the GW effect. And even when they get it all right someone who plays a different army is still annoyed.

            So they do what they know will sell and make new things harder to make them sell to. Its far from ideal but it keeps the lights on.

            I think that the way to fix this is with the rules all coming out at once, but not just once, every year or 2 we get the full range of new rules. No more codex creep then its its just based on the models. Might even get my wish too 🙂

          • ZeeLobby

            Gonna show my age here, but “back in the good ole days” it really wasn’t just Chaos VS Imperials. Orks were a huge part of both the game and playerbase. You’d go to events like Games Days and all you could hear in the gaming areas were Ork Waaghs. Since that point there’s just been a gradual funneling of all factions towards Imperial ones. Heck, even CSM went through a LONG period of inactivity prior to these latest releases. But now there’s been massive sales of their new CSM content.

            If anything I think this shows that GW CAN lead us in any direction they want, and I don’t think they have to neglect what we love for years before leading us somewhere else.

            I guess I would have more sympathy for their plight if they were actually struggling to keep the lights on. Having some friends who worked for GW and now work for other companies in the industry, GW could have massive losses and still stay afloat for several years. They have a substantial safety net, and I just wish they used it to take more risks. It’s not like they couldn’t have a Xenos year, and if it failed miserably, go back to pumping out marines left and right the next.

            But in the end, I don’t we’ll ever see that kind of movement from GW. They’ve weeded out most of the questioning/dissenting voices internally, and will simply go wherever the captain leads them.

            I do agree, there will most likely be a “Commander’s Handbook” in 8th, and hopefully yearly refreshes of points values and/or rules. So far I’ve seen little movement towards tighter rules and balance, but there was no indicator in Fantasy before it was swept clear and AoS was born, so who knows…

          • The Rout

            We might get a xenos year but not soon with the 13BC just kicking off. I want a campaign on that planet where the orks and nids are fighting so bad!

            And everybody love orks, if they dont then arent people IMO :p

            Modern GW is trying to give us what we want and theyve started listening, just gotta hope it affects change.

            Gotta appreciate the endurance it takes to deal with angry divanerds on the regular. Id have hid under a rock for a few years too haha

          • ZeeLobby

            Man, I wish Orks got some love, ever… My 2 friends who played them sold them at this point. Just got tired of both losing and waiting.

            I mean I would guarantee that a campaign not based around Imperial factions would sell well, I just don’t see it ever happening though. And it’s that fear of risk taking that will prevent them from trying it :(.

          • The Rout

            Just read my response back and tone was a bit off so please take it the way it was intended 🙂

          • ZeeLobby

            Oh, no worries :D. Sorry if mine seems harsh. Definitely just having a good discussion. And your points are definitely valid. I still think vision and goals could drive a lot of changes, even with initial upfront costs. But alas, I’m not privy to the full details.

          • The Rout

            Same on all parts 😀 im just mindful that these discussions can go off the rails quite quickly and id much rather have a constructive discussion than a slanging match

          • ZeeLobby

            Agreed :D.

          • Valeli

            Lots of games have been sold on the basis of fairness…. I don’t think there’s all that much risk involved when choosing a business model that’s been around since well before the release of Chess.

            That model certainly wouldn’t be breaking any new ground and people, apparently, like it.

            PS: If you want to try an sell a new version of Monopoly where whoever plays the hat has exclusive access to “contacts” and “insider trading” though, be my guest. That could be fun, for a laugh. Make sure the dog is unable to get bank loans too, because banks don’t sufficiently trust the canine demographic either. … kids will love it, and get great life lessons at the same time.

          • The Rout

            I get the frustration mate, im not saying i AGREE with gws policy im saying i UNDERSTAND it. It sucks but it makes a lot of sense too unfortunately.

          • Maitre Lord Ironfist

            You missed Jeansstealers and their range, since they are not Imperial but Xenos.

            An Jeanstealercodex was, at least in some Batraps, the most funny thing i saw in a while.

          • Karru

            The infamous Fashion Burglar Cultists are not Eldar, Tau or Necrons. He did say “Xenos” at the end, but his main focus was on Eldar, Tau or Necrons. There were no mentions of Orks or Tyranids in either of his arguments. Like ZeeLobby mentioned, he was cherry picking the strongest Xeno armies that happened to get very lucky with their book. There has been no major release for any of them after their Codex updates, outside the Damocles one which really didn’t even give that much to Tau.

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah. It just gets boring, and I play Tau. I’m bored because I know it’ll probably be another year or 5 before I see anything interesting for my faction… While in that same time span I expect to see multiple new Imperial factions and updates.

          • Karru

            Yeah, the good thing is that they have currently “top of the line” models. They are up-to-date with lots of options and poses available. Downside is that you should never be expecting any updates.

          • ZeeLobby

            Haha. I’d honestly take worse sculpts for new and exciting things throughout the year. I simply don’t have the money to do what GW dreams of and purchase every new faction. But they would get more money out of me if they just occasionally released things for the factions I play.

          • caldera02

            annnnnnd one Imperial release later and GSC(JSC!) now has a hard counter. Yaaaaaaay, thanks GW!

          • ZeeLobby

            LoL. Yup.

          • Maitre Lord Ironfist

            allready had, since this is a WLT and Servoskulls (wich are gone from some Tournaments now) also Corteaz.

    • Graymantle

      Something to keep in mind regarding Imperial faction support. In terms of entertainment IP, we typically see some alliance of good vs an alliance of evil. Whether you see the Imperium as actual good guys, they do represent humanity (us) and who we as humans would identify with in a galactic struggle for survival. This puts xenos and chaos together into the bad guy category. In order to roughly balance the forces of good with the forces of evil, the Imperium naturally has a great number of subfactions (and thus, a wider product range) to give the good guys as much variety as the bad guys. So if GW were to equally support players on both sides, they would balance good guy releases (always Imperium) with bad guy releases (everyone else)—which is fairly close what we have.

      • ZeeLobby

        Even in those groupings I’d argue that they’re not fairly close. Imperials get more updates, rules, stories and releases in a year than all other factions combined. This is also ignoring the fact that 40K USED to be more than just a black and white universe. The Orks, Eldar, etc. all had their own clearly distinguished backgrounds and places in the universe. If the future of 40K is black and white good vs evil (with Blood Angels and Necrons bro-fisting), then I guess it really isn’t the game for me anymore.

        • Graymantle

          You’re missing my point. I’m not ignoring the past, citing percentages, or seeing anything as black or white. I’m speaking in generalities to illustrate a sound rationale for the Imperial alliance being supported above all others. It’s not some odd play at favoritism, it’s a common trend with entertainment franchises to support the “good guys” with more product and content than the “bad guys.”

          • ZeeLobby

            I never said YOU were seeing things in black and white. I’m just saying that it’s silly for them to see the world as Good vs Bad. And back when the game was originally created, it’s not like the trend was present then as well. Not to mention there’s plenty other gaming systems (pretty much all of them) that don’t fall into this trap. I’m just not sure your explanation really justifies the current dichotomy’s existence. It could be the reason they choose, but it’s a choice, not something to be expected. They choose to favor Imperials over other factions.

          • Graymantle

            I don’t think they are seeing their universe that plainly, either. And I wouldn’t say reducing a product line down to good vs bad is “silly.” It’s a way of distilling down their stable of armies into simple target demographics (14 Imperium, 13 other, BTW. Pretty even). It’s just good business sense, in general. This trend has existed for decades. Look at successful video game franchises, like World of Warcraft. Their Alliance vs Horde is basically good vs bad, but that’s mostly a convenient grouping as well. There are giant a-holes in the Alliance and compassionate heroes in the Horde—and all sorts of layered moral ambiguity in between. But that top-level view is still good vs evil—the ultimate conflict. I’m not just talking about gaming, either; I’m referring to all entertainment-based consumer products. Just walk down the toy aisles in your Target or Walmart. Look at the ratio of heroes vs villains from any popular IP. Marvel, DC, Transformers, Star Wars… The closest you’ll see is 50/50, but in most cases the “good guy” products will outnumber the “bad…”

            Look, I’m not trying to convince anyone of what’s right. I’m just trying to provide context and insight into the business. I’ve worked on global entertainment brands for 20 years—the last 10 in the toy industry. This parsing of brands works. Yes, this is their choice. Everything is a choice. But this shouldn’t be unexpected either. In general, people want the good guys to be represented more favorably and more often. That’s exactly what we’re seeing.

    • Ryan

      Imperial favoritism? Like at Cadia and Fenris?

      • ZeeLobby

        Exactly. You’d think they were entire sectors and not just 2 planets out of millions.

  • Sage

    Not having an AP2 sword is the only chink to Celestine’s stats. I find this an incredibly bizarre oversight given how OTT the rest of her rules are.

    • mrinquisitor

      its cool though… for 15 points you can get the pistol that’s AP2 ignores Invul from these “leaks”

    • hazal

      expect her to be annoying, if she isnt deadly.

  • Adam Upson

    these models are insane for the point cost Cellestine is ridiculous! its cheese but its fun cheese the kind that your opponent won’t mind because they are all damn cool models and they have fluff attached to their data cards.

  • Jared van Kell

    I love those rules. All three characters are actually worth their points.

  • Deacon Ix

    So the inquisitor counts as a higher level than Magnus when trying ot nullify his powers…?

    I find all these stats a little too self pleasuring…

  • Nonparity

    5 wounds!? Dang…

  • Kolobius

    Anybody else think that the point costs for these guys is weird? for 200ish points you get badass HQs that are beatsticks and army buffers and for only 50pts less you get a relatively weak HQ choice that doesn’t do much in comparison

    • Djbz

      Yeah GW is terrible a point costing when it comes to Characters they are either far too much, or not pricey enough for their abilities 90% of the time

  • Iron Father Stronos

    Are you kidding me….. +1 FnP army wide to all troops? The Iron hands are already broken, and now for 200 points, you get an unkillable jump buffer that makes the Hands even more durable. I see abuse central potential here.

  • Harthelion

    You see the true colors of GW and how they don’t care about balance and make fun of us, when they release something cool for xenos or chaos. And immediately they release something op and absurd for imperium that is perfect for any faction inside.

  • piglette

    I’ve been waiting for a decade to start a Sisters army. Now I will and I’ll be called cheese for it! Too bad!

    • Harthelion

      Nah, actually celestine is something the codex of sisters needed, the problem of her is that affects all armies of imperium, so cheese superfriends may be coming.

    • Runefyre

      it just sucks that she lost act of faith 🙁

      • Reven

        She lost act of faith? Then what is her Miraculous Intervention now? Just a special rule?

        • Runefyre

          yup :/

          Miraculous Intervention is now just a usr that allows her to take a LD. check against being removed as a casualty.

          So Seraphim bodyguards become less appealing now :/

          I guess you could just keep her with the seraphim until the turn you wanna charge, then detach her and have both charge the same unit.

  • 301stFeinminsterArmoured

    Looks like Wraith spam is still the easy button for dealing with this game, especially for dealing with Cawl.

  • Troy Dean

    Can we take Celestine without the Super Twins?

    • Runefyre

      nope.

  • Mr.Gold

    01000001 01110111 01100101 01110011 01101111 01101101 01100101 00100001

  • Mr.Gold

    any idea if you can use the Archmagos canticles as well as regular ones (one of each) on the same turn?

  • Dexter Kingsford

    Balisarius replacing the dominus in the deepstriking breacher formation <3

    • Mr.Gold

      put Cawl in a unit (e.g. of Skitarii) along with another Dominus, the Dominus could take one of the new relics, with this: Cawl heals D3 wounds on his own, and the Dominus fixes him up further in the shooting phase…

  • AnomanderRake

    On the fence about the other two, but Greyfax seems like an expensive downgrade on Coteaz from the information here. Fifty more points for no artificer armour, a slight upgrade on denial tests, a mediocre power, worse weapons, and none of Coteaz’ extra effects? I hope there’s more to her.

  • Shawn

    Okay, I’m sold. Here’s my money GW

  • Tothe

    I want Celestine and Greyfax.