Should We Worry About Battle for Vedros?

vedros-collage-horz
No matter which way you slice it we are currently experiencing a good time for wargaming so why should we be worried?

Not much has been made of the Battle for Vedros after its initial release, if you aren’t aware, Games Workshop has repackaged a number of kits including snap fit Space Marines and Orks and sold them to toy and game shops to cater to a 8-12 year old audience.
It seems like a harmless venture, Workshop is trying to open up a new market using its existing IP and pre existing plastic moulds and selling them to toy shops who then sell onwards takes up virtually no resources and won’t disrupt the good work they are currently doing with large boxed games and releases.
It was probably an easy sell when it was presented at the board meeting as the toy market is a much larger pool of money to jump into than the miniature wargame market which GW has locked down pretty tightly over the years (this chart is pretty old but I suspect its still valid in showing the plateau that a big business in a small pool hits).
battle
This is where my problems come in, the toy market is in fact so much larger than the miniature wargaming market that Games Workshop could easily dive right in if they see significant success.
The Money Made Here Won’t See its Way Into the Core Business
Ok, this is speculation on my point and if their staff see a massive pay bonus in the next year and hobby centers start to look like the amazing works of art they could easily become I will happily print this page out and eat it in penance but generally companies don’t let a plateauing part of their business eat up profits from a booming one.
14915267_929926000484414_8762412014917986760_n
Where Would this Money Go?
Workshop does invest some of that back into its stores but sadly around £15m of it goes into dividends on the shares held by their stakeholders. Only 60%+ of them are publicly disclosed and with the exception of Tom Kirby they are all investment companies.
Is the Battle for Vedros Even a Success?
Its going to be difficult to say until after Christmas but all Workshop has to do is sell the products to retail chains at Toy and Gaming convention to make a short term profit. If over 200 GAME stores are buying them for about $500 each thats $100,000+ or thanks to the way the UK economy works £100,000. If those stores go on to sell the products and come back for more then Games Workshop will have their runaway success.
vedros-1
But I want to Buy the Battle for Vedros for Someone I Know?
Remember that none of these kits are new, its all been available in Games Workshop stores for ages and those 400+ stores and the rest of the FLGS are the things that need to be protected because without them this hobby goes into a death spiral that it’s not going to pull out of.
Get a Grip you Fool you’re Panicking. Games Workshop Will Never Abandon its Core Business.
Probably not, but if you cast you mind back to the discontinuing of the original specialist games range or the rush to capitalise on the Lord of the Rings phenomenon they are certainly capable of grasping a money maker with both hands.
In conclusion it’s probably nothing to worry about for now but if the results of this experiment are good then it does bode ill for the future of company who can and will kill off perceived unprofitable lines.

~ Brave new world or existential crisis, what do you think?

More fun stuff over at:

Chilvers Industries

  • Josh Watkins

    I wonder if GW is doing this due to the amount of actual gaming stores cracking open the old black reach boxes an selling units independently.

    • CthulhuDawg

      If they had released the Blackreach Deffkoptas in their own box I would have given GW a couple hundred dollars instead of random dudes on Ebay. Money down the drain for them.

    • Horus84cmd

      I highly doubt it

    • NikosanPrime

      I wonder if it is due to the amount of actual gaming stores that have stopped selling GW’s products.

      Out of all the Gaming stores in Vancouver, BC only 4 seem to still be selling Gw’s products. The ones I have spoken to all said that GW was difficult to work with and there was little to no value in selling their products.

      Considering you cannot buy a large number of their products through independent stores I would surmise that GW does not understand how to build their business and instead of learning from their mistakes is trying to find other markets. This is usually a sign of eminent decline. But I have been saying that for years and I have not seen the GW world end yet.

      • DeadlyYellow

        Value makes sense. Retail cost is 55% for standard and 65% for webstore exclusives, but online sellers will offer the products at a 20 – 40% discount depending on the item. Wouldn’t leave much for a brick-and-mortar store to compete over. Not to mention the massive secondhand market that undercuts everything.

        As far as being a difficult company, it’s likely more the Canadian representation. The US side are one of the more pleasant distributors I’ve dealt with while working at a game store.

  • SilentPony

    I’m just worried it’s a soft release for the 8th edition simple rules. No more templates, etc. Flamers just get 3 shots, rockets just get 6, and so on.

    • Red_Five_Standing_By

      Templates are fun but they cause rules debates and slow games down.

      • SilentPony

        Yeah, but there are also armies built around them. Sisters, Salamanders, 30k Death Guard, various Chaos groups.
        It’d be a real kick to the nuts to say a Helldrake can only hit 3 models with its dragon breath, or a 10man Tactical Support squad all with flamers can only ever hit 30 times.

        • Red_Five_Standing_By

          I assume the whole system is being redesigned from the ground up. It will probably be like AoS in that the number of wounds is variable. Something like a flamer would be d3, where as a Hell Turkey or a Hell Hound would be d6 or even 2d6.

          • BurpinforDayz

            If templates are scrapped I’m pretty sure Astra Militarum are done for.

        • Josh Watkins

          Or that battle wagon loaded with burna boys pumping out 60 wounds on a 5 man squad… or even better a full 120 wounds on a densely packed nid unit … I kinda miss my burna’s now lol.

    • Horus84cmd

      Won’t bother me either way, random dice rolls or templates, as long as the mechanics for said weapons are intuitive with clear black and white boundaries.

      • ZeeLobby

        That’ll be a first, but maybe 8th will do it.

        • Horus84cmd

          I don’t know. Generally I find that when a new edition come the rules are, broadly, intuitive and clear. It is when more and more bits and bobs are added that causes the problems i.e. things that stray from the core mechanics; in a way its like the designers have lost sight of the original intentions.

          • ZeeLobby

            Isn’t there still an issue of clarity with templates and multiple levels of a building? I think it’s FAQed but it was a pretty big issue.

          • Horus84cmd

            Personal experience it that they were clear enough and no worse that other grey areas. I always feel a lot the issues arise with rules (for any game out there) for two reasons. There is split between rules that could have been worded better (or just included a illustrative application) and just plain gamers trying to bend and twist rules in their personal favour. I would hazards it is a 10/90 split, placing a lot of blame on people who like to abuse.

          • ZeeLobby

            Er. Pretty sure it was a 50/50. At least from how many times I saw it come up. They just didn’t even consider the interaction of buildings and template weapons, which are honestly two pretty common aspects of the game. I mean it’s just a lazy omission. Not sure if they missed it, or didn’t even try to tackle it, lol. And I’m not saying 50/50 as in decision made, I’m saying 50/50 as in half the time people looked it up and realized there was no answer, lol. That’s just Swiss cheese rules. Even years after no answer was given I remember people still trying to sift through the rulebook to find it. Concise and throughout rules have just never been the GW way. Only got worse with the designer exodus.

          • Horus84cmd

            10/90 split is my personal experience, certainly in within the groups I’ve played with. Ha, maybe I’m just lucky.

          • ZeeLobby

            Well within groups it’s always easier. Your group makes a group choice and your good to go. I’m talking about public pickup games and events. The places people usually learn about the game, start playing and first learn the rules. It’s one of the areas GW has always struggled with, but it’s gotten comically worse. They keep wanting to grow their fanbase and attract new children to the game, but do very little to fix conflicting or vague rules . As adults we choose a group ruling, or just give in to continue the game, but as a kid I remember heated arguments between friends often. Like I said, I hope it’s something GW fixes with 8th, but I’m not holding my breath, hehe.

          • Horus84cmd

            Again, never seriously had a problem in larger public pick up games with any rules. Me and my opponent may have a quick discussion through things like templates, scenery etc.. and then just get on with the game. Anything that crops up is dealt with it in a adult and polite manner and we move on. After the game we then may go back and discus more around it and provide the evidence for and against etc…

            When your kids it does not matter how well rules are written you will still get argument, your children – sheesh, me and my brothers would argue about the ‘Pairs’ memory game! which has, less rules than the fingers on one hand.

            Oddly, I’ve often seen the young ‘child’ gamers play games in a far more cordial way than the ‘adult’ gamers do.

          • ZeeLobby

            I guess most of the north east of the US is just unlucky then, haha.

          • Muninwing

            since you’re in the NE, i feel like i should ask you how AoS is doing in your area… since i too am in the NE-US and have seen its underperformance everywhere near me.

          • ZeeLobby

            I honestly never see it. I might just be in a dead area, but in general I think it’s something that’s just much bigger in Europe, or more specifically the UK. I mean some of the events I’ve gone to lately have had AoS events alongside 40K, but they’re pretty meager, much smaller than the parallel fantasy events in the past.

            This is all anecdotal ofcourse. Clearly GW and fans think AoS is exploding, so it might be. I just haven’t seen it.

          • Muninwing

            yeah… here in western MA there’s three gaming stores within an hour’s drive, and none of them have any AoS presence…

            and one of the store owners assures me that the same is true in many smaller non-gw-focused stores down the eastern seaboard. a game-store community he’s an active member of has been full of people angry and disenchanted with GW ever since the shift.

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah. I mean numbers would reveal all, but we’ll never get those… We’ll just have to see how the yearly sales total looks year after year, and make our own assumptions. I can only speak for the several stores near me, and they just don’t move stock of fantasy stuff. They didn’t before, but for them, not much has changed.

          • Ben_S

            I encounter very few issues with BB, so I don’t know what you’re referring to.

            I have, of late, seen many newcomers to the game asking rules questions, but all the ones I’ve seen as easily resolved by reference to the rules.

            Some of the new stuff, like the special play cards, does seem less than clear. These things haven’t been honed to the extent that the core rules have been.

          • Horus84cmd

            Oh yes indeed and I think BB is a very clear game and again personally I don’t have a issue. I was just pointing out that as well written as BB is considered to be, there are people, who still have issues – in this case prob erring on the people that are trying to twist a rule.

          • Ben_S

            Once you’ve played various editions of various GW games, all with pretty similar basic mechanics, it can get very difficult to remember intricacies of the rules.

            The writing doesn’t always help though. Sometimes GW make a significant change, without actually saying it. Like in 7th edition 40k a unit could only throw one grenade in the shooting phase, but use as many as they liked in combat. In 8th edition, GW removed the reference to the shooting phase, but didn’t give any indication that the throwing limit was now supposed to apply to combat until an FAQ came out.

          • Muninwing

            i hate that sometimes i’ll remember rules how they were in 4th ed… i never want my opponent to think i’m trying to cheat. but my memory is a fickle thing

          • Horus84cmd

            Why should it needed to be said explicitly that a rule has change occurred? If you READ rules in full and CORRECTLY i.e. don’t skim read it or skip bits and make assumption, then you don’t miss things. In all honesty it is a really straight forward thing to read something accurately, but people are, sometimes, inherently lazy!

          • Ben_S

            I didn’t say it needed to be explicitly stated that it’s a rule change. I said the change needs to be stated.

            Reading the 7th edition rulebook, it merely limits throwing. Nothing says that you throw grenades in close combat.

            I suppose this is making an assumption but it’s making an assumption either way. If you don’t make assumptions, then the rules are simply indeterminate.

    • Christopher Amezcua

      have you seen the rules for this thing? its clearly a super simplified ruleset for kids to play with warhammer minis. Honestly take 10 seconds and look around at the vedros page and come back and tell me it isnt a product aimed at kids

    • I for one am ready for templates to die. They slow the game down way too much and cause rage and arguments that I’d rather not have to sit through anymore.

      “No way dude its covering a nanometer of your base its totally a hit!”

      “No its not you’re holding it wrong, … {jiggles template} see now its not”

      “YOU CHEATING BASTARD”

      Give me “templates do D6 hits” anyday.

      • kobalt60

        You just need to start playing with opponents that aren’t jerks. I let my opponent place his template, and if he says it hits 7 models, it hits 7 models. If you rage about a game of little men, you’re doing it wrong

        • SYSTem050

          Exactly

        • Karru

          I go even further then that. I usually always add one more hit that my opponent gets against me while I subtract one from my total hits when there is a situation that isn’t perfectly clear. It makes the game run much smoother and template weapons would still remain relevant.

        • Horus84cmd

          #truthbomb

        • While thats great and all, and I don’t disagree, I do public events, and when you do public events you often don’t have a choice in who you are playing against.

          • kobalt60

            Surely the bad players must be in the minority, else why would you play? So getting rid of templates just to avoid the occasional argument seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face. You have my sympathies regardless. After the time,money and effort I’ve put into this hobby, to have to deal with someone whining about a millimeter of template….

          • I’d rather not deal with the argument at all in the first place. While those players are in the minority, it only takes one to drive off six or so players who wil lnever show up to your events again for fear of facing that one guy.

          • kobalt60

            Keep the six, remove the one. Be ruthless, drive off the idiots. I still say changing a 25 year old feature of the game just to please the idiots is a mistake. Oversimplification will ultimately ruin the game. Or not

      • OldHat

        Man, that was my one of my many loves of Dust Warfare. No templates! Shoot something like a Flamethrower and you do a certain number of hits based on the enemy squad size. Easy! Not even a variable d6 or anything, just 1 roll per dude! Man, I miss that game.

      • petrow84

        The “YOU CHEATING BASTARD” caught my eye. For a moment I imagined the following story:

        “And where were you, you pig?”
        “Hun, it’s gaming night, we were playing a match with the guys!”
        “For 6 hours straight?!”
        “Yes, he brought his 20 Wywerns, and we started to resolve wounds according to the rules!”
        “I’m not gonna buy that cr*p again, I know, you were with Stacy, YOU CHEATING BASTARD!”

      • Muninwing

        there’s a guy i sometimes gamed with, who was incapable of holding a straight line from a scatter on a blast. every time, it was nothing short of hair-pulling to get him to not twist the template in one direction or another.

        and not even for advantage. it was just that he couldn’t follow a straight line. and if you had him do it form different angles he’d place the circle in drastically different locations.

        i think that the flame templates are just fine… since they can be moved and angled when making declarations.

        but blasts? as much as i love using them, they’re such a pain.

        • Yeah that comes up a lot too. Arguments over the angle of the line etc.

  • SYSTem050

    Not quite sure if it’s quite as simple with the short term sales you mention. Some of bigger stores will have them on sale or return or purchased on credit etc. I would be amazed given its previous financial status if GAME had 30 pence in free cash to by an unknown stock item.

    Plus as has been pointed out for us old farts it was hero quest or space quest that started this decent into madness and my mum bought them from the local toy shop. That one outside purchase has seen quite a lot of direct sales to GW over the last 25 years

  • In a word: No.
    I can think of a few things that GW fans could worry about if they really wanted to, but the success of Vedros isn’t one of them. I can’t speak for the UK, but Vedros hasn’t made a big splash in the states. It isn’t in any big box stores. In fact, the only Vedros displays I’ve seen were in game stores. Where GW could make inroads would be craft stores like Michaels or Jo-Anns, but it isn’t in these stores either. Also, the profits for GW’s minis might be declining, but they are still profits. Vedros wasn’t a bad idea. It’s a good way for GW to make use of old molds, but in the US it wasn’t a game changer (no matter how much some people wanted it to be).

    • Red_Five_Standing_By

      I think Blood Bowl makes a better introduction to the world of wargaming than Vedors of AoS.

      There’s a Bloodbowl Facebook group where lots of parents are sharing the game with the kids, some as young as 3 or 4.

      • Muninwing

        a few years back my AP class was doing a project involving board games (they were building their own as a review for The Scarlet Letter… then they played them in preparation for the test).

        they did some research on board games, looking for starting points, and one of them found Blood Bowl.

        keep in mind that this was a class of 9 sixteen year old girls, most of whom were in the same churchgroup. talking about super-normality here.

        they all thought that Blood Bowl sounded awesome. they all wanted to play it. sadly, i didn’t have any yet.

    • ZeeLobby

      Gotta agree here.

  • Roughneck

    Here’s abit of knowledge from talking to people who work for Games Workshop at various levels:
    1- it’s to target the American youth market as it’s seen as a massive market for them to aim for.
    2 – it’s not going to impact 40k in any way shape or form in terms of rules etc.
    3- the reason it’s in Game as 3rd ed was in Argos is to tape into the video game player market as it’s seen as a cross seller by most parties.
    This article while stating some sound points is panicmongering and building mountains out of mole hills. One reason why articles as such and many more that appear here are bad for the hobby as it’s all conjecture and speculation ala 8th being like AoS and then is seen as FACT when it’s not.

    • Horus84cmd

      Truth!
      #post-truth #fake-news

    • Admiral Raptor

      If they want to target the American youth market, they should maybe think about actually selling Vedros somewhere in America (same goes for Canada).

      • DeadlyYellow

        Oh come now, it’s all over the US West Coast according to their Facebook page.

        Of course, if you live elsewhere in the country good luck finding a store. There is no unified map like for GW proper, just a collection of posts sprinkled amongst the page history to dig through.

        Or you could use Amazon.

        • Muninwing

          well, they shut down every GW store in New England a decade ago.

          have (re) opened three of them since, but the two big companies that own(ed) the majority of mall/retail properties became hostile to “kid stores” and upped rents to make them leave. so there aren’t too many inquiries into expansion here…

          so there’s no real vedros access here. AND there’s no access to store exclusives.

      • Roughneck

        Have to remember it’s just lunched and a lot of the stock will still be stuck in customs. But it is aimed to be in US toy stores, from what I was told by GW workers not Walmart like people keep saying.

  • Munn

    I’d give this more credence if it wasn’t completely impossible to find battle for vedros anywhere, at least in the U.S.

  • Sebastien Bazinet

    Never saw it in store here in Canada (Montreal area)

    • kobalt60

      Not around Toronto either, and I’ve looked

    • Admiral Raptor

      It’s hard to find anywhere in North America. I checked the Vedros website, nearest retailer to me is over 800km away :P.

      • Muninwing

        there’s one store that sells them northeast of PA…

  • Troy G

    Warhammer 40K is in a death spiral. GW’s answer to every problem for the last decade has been to raise prices. Sell 1/3 as much at 3 times the price. When you look around your game store how many eager 14-15 year old new 40K players are there? Almost none. 40K players are increasingly older. We mainly come from certain generation that was marketed to when GW had reasonably priced Starter sets, and a much, much lower barrier for entry.

    How many people do you know of who started 40K in 6th edition after Dark Vengence became the starter set? I can count the number I know on 2 fingers, and one of those started because of Battle for Vedros.

    Battle for Vedros isn’t the problem. It is the solution.

    • Adam Poultney

      Eager teenagers? Well there’s me I guess…

    • ZeeLobby

      I think GW has already given up on us older folks. We already own armies.

      • Nyyppä

        Likely so. The thing is that we have the money and honestly if I had a kid old enough to play these games I would not sponsor his/her 40k hobby while things are what they are.

      • OldHat

        That is what Forge World is for. Us adults with more money than sense and a need to broaden our collections beyond the common plastic plebes.

        • Troy G

          The other thing is all of the new factions are about catering to Grey Beards. Genestealer Cult, Deathwatch, Skitarrii, Etc. All of that is about convincing existing customers to buy more models.

      • DeadlyYellow

        The logical conclusion. Diminishing returns– a person who already plays the game is not going to spend as much in the immediate future as a person who could potentially play the game.

        Also publicly traded companies anti-consumer yadda yadda.

        • ZeeLobby

          Personally I think a system that supported all factions equally and introduced new models for each throughout the year would be more profitable. Old players want new models and new experiences. New player still need to buy factions to play.

          • DeadlyYellow

            Yeah, but who plays Privateer Press games?

            Excepting people who want a more balanced gameset; want a slimmer gameset; enjoy using models outside standard netlist cheese; would like to play a game in the time it takes to set up a 40k match, and several throughout the day; don’t want to buy and reference across several books; or prefers less obtrusive card readouts to full-page stats and rules.

          • ZeeLobby

            It’s like you can read my mind, lol

    • Nyyppä

      Alcohol is a solution too and It’s not a great one for fixing things.

    • Muninwing

      price whining again?

      please. just because you don’t account for inflation doesn’t mean that there’s actually any validity to this tired argument.

      because you sound like my grandmother complaining that candy bars don’t cost a nickel anymore.

      • Troy G

        It’s not just Price. Price is important as GW has recently started to realize, but it is Barrier for Entry in general.

        Complex, Hard to Learn, and generally Crappy army comp has done just as much damage as the price point. Chat with players at a game store playing a game other than 40K about why they didn’t choose 40K. The answer is usually either price or Army Comp.

        Then there is rules bloat, and general lack of effort / care when it comes to rules. If IG is the army the speaks to you, but you know they have rules that don’t really fit when compared to Eldar, or Tau, then you are waved away.

        When you look at starter armies, the armies that new players are drawn to, it is Space Marines, Orks, IG, and to a lesser extent Tau or Tyranids. With so many of those armies in terrible places rule-wise it raises the barrier for entry.

        Price is important, but only one of the many ways that GW has designed 40K to be Newbie unfriendly.

        • Muninwing

          see, you are using specific phrases. you have heard these phrases being used. you have agreed with them, so you repeat them.

          but… they are not necessarily true.

          what i have discovered about price?
          – this is one of the cheapest hobbies out there
          – it is priced according to hobby (thus luxury) pricing, not game/toy pricing
          – if you look at most kits since 3rd, and adjust for inflation, you get the current price

          meaning that the people most complaining about price and using “barrier to entry” as an argument are not answering the question of why it was never an issue before but suddenly is.

          i get bloat. 7th was an expansion era. next comes a streamlining. this is a pretty standard pattern.

          army comp isn’t hard. nor is it terribly complex. it did go through a change, and with any change some people freaked out because different=scary. but it’s pretty simple to follow. plus there’s always the FOC… i mean the CAD. i’m hoping some of the failed/unbalanced ideas for formations go away (like free razorbacks), and/or that they become part of the HQ’s cost, but that’s not the same issue.

          and i will argue on your side about poor balance/comp doing serious damage to the game. it’s been that way since Ward became a rising star, and it’s why he gets so much hate (since most of his works were what propelled the runaway “codex creep” in both games, and that creep in WHF is largely why the game faltered.

          but the “barrier to entry” argument was being used by GW execs to justify lowered sales rather than admit that executive meddling was ruining play… or that play influenced sales, since that was also the “we’re a model company” era of ignorance. so repeating the phrase is disingenuous.

  • Adam Poultney

    What I worry about is if this is a proto-8th-edition…

    • Adam Poultney

      Which would be a reason for GW to lose a tonne of customers…

      • Nyyppä

        The kids of our generation would be able to fill the gaps easily.

    • OldHat

      I think this is a dumbed down entry-level game for youngsters. That is why it is very simplistic. I figure 8th will be between modern 40k and AoS. I doubt they would dumb it down beyond AoS, though.

      • Muninwing

        honestly though, i think that that’s what AoS started as, and it supplanted the main line. so the fear is valid, even if it’s not the direction they intend…

        • OldHat

          It isn’t really valid, as AoS is the only real example of a major system overhaul we have and even it wasn’t dumbed down to Vedros levels. The fear is baseless, especially since we have no hard evidence to what is coming anyhow.

  • blackbloodshaman

    Worst case GW sucks even more than they currently do, and people drop them like a bad habit and play better cheaper games

    • ZeeLobby

      It’s currently an awesome time to diversify gaming. Just this year FFG is putting out a ranked combat game, steamforge a sci-fi skirmish game and Wyrd a wargame.

      • blackbloodshaman

        we are living in the golden age of wargaming

    • Nyyppä

      Well, it’s not like it’d be worse than the current 40k.

  • AX_472

    Its not the toy market. its the models kit market. The people who buy WW2 planes and such. still a niche market so i don’t see it causing the problems you are afraid of. The sky is not falling, chill.

  • Moonsaves

    Nope. Battle for Vendros is a gateway product. The entire point of it is to get kids who never would’ve sought out a Games Workshop store buying directly from them by introducing the brand.

  • Muninwing

    YOU SHOULD WORRY ABOUT THIS!

    well, maybe not.

    but… DOUBT!

    why does this feel like a tabloid splashpage instead of a worthwhile consideration?

    • Stealthbadger

      COULD BREATHING GIVE YOU CANCER?!?!!??

      Probably not but by using the dark art of Fox News and the cretinous habits of those who read a headline and ignore the body of the article and/or science then we can convince the masses it will.

  • Noah Jerge

    I doubt that these kits would be too successful unless they were pre-built/painted. I imagine that most children would become tired of building and painting the miniatures after a while, and those that would not would probably prefer to just start 40k.

  • Yes we should be worried, Vedros in the UK from my perspective is a failure.

    1st, it was released through GAME, big mistake, as GAME often overcharges for it’s products and this in fact did happen with the Vedros stuff, online, their prices were way different then instore, and some products were even more expensive then they would be from GW itself.

    2nd, very little talk about the game, seriously, I think in the 40k FB groups I’ve only seen 1 person actually mention owning or painting any of the sets at all (Besides myself), even the offical Vedros FB page has little activity, that does not bode well at all.

    Overall I think the biggest problem is down to availability, GW failed to get it into any of the big retail chains, such as ASDA or Tesco here in the UK, or Target or Walmart in the US (Based from what little I have heard from our overseas friends).

    The second problem is priceing here in the UK, I brought the starter set online shortly after it came out for £29.99 which for the amount of older models, I thought was a fair price, however now it’s around £40-£45 from Game (depending on where you source it from), this quite frankly is too much for it’s content, if they had included at least one of the missing Black Reach sprues (or both) then perhaps it would be worth that price.

    As for the Build and Paint releases, good luck finding any in the UK at all, seriously, London the Capital city of the UK doesn’t have a single store to my knowledge selling it!