40K Editorial: Do We Need Another Primarch?

With Guilliman and Magnus back, do we even need another Primarch?

There has been a lot of speculation on the returning Primarchs to 40k. So far we’ve gotten Magnus and Guilliman. Both of them have some really amazing models and rules to match. Now it seems that fans from every founding legion are hoping for their Primarch to return next. Everyone is speculating on who’s coming back and the discussion has been pretty engaging so far. But, with all that speculation there is one question question that very few people seem to be asking: Do we even NEED them?

Every race has always had a “leader” figure – a “Face” so to speak for the race.

  • Chaos has Abaddon
  • The Orks have Ghazghkull
  • The Eldar have Eldrad (and now the Yncarne)
  • Tau have Farsight
  • Tyranids have The Swarmlord

…and so on, but the Imperium, specifically the Space Marines have never really had a “Face” – Calgar is arguably the closest. However, because of the structure of the chapters not ever Marine player even identifies with him as the “Face” of the Marines (looking at you Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Grey Knights…well, you get the idea).

Now that Guilliman is back, he’s supposed to be a rallying figure for the Imperium – so if that’s the case having more Primarchs will just muddy the waters. You’ll end up with a “Chaos” situation where there are Sub-factions trying to be the “Face” of the faction – and model wise, Abaddon just doesn’t compete with The Lord of Change, Magnus, or even the Bloodthirster model theses days.

Yes, this is an excuse to post this picture again. I want a new Abaddon model!

So do we really need that same thing to happen to the Imperium? Do we really need 21 flavors of Primarchs to match the Baskin Robbins-like flavors of Space Marines? Perhaps…but at what point is it just so overwhelming that it crosses that line and it just becomes redundant. Given the fact that Guilliman also has the Emperor’s Sword, does that mean all of the other Primarchs will need to have a piece of the Emperor to be viewed as a legitimate Primarch? How much wargear did the Emperor even leave for this children to fight over – there can’t be a lot left!

I Know You Can…But Should You?

Games Workshop has the power to bring all the Primarchs back – they literally can do whatever they want. However, just because you can do something doesn’t always mean you should. Besides, doesn’t anyone else remember what happened the last time a Primarch was left in charge of the Imperium…

 

Heresy. It was Heresy.

I mean, I get it – I think everyone wants their Primarch to come back because, let’s be honest, that’s a pretty big stinking deal! I have a Blood Angels Army that’s been on the shelf for awhile but if I got a Sanguinius model you can bet your socks I’d pull them out for a spin (but he’s dead – and I know that). But think of the mental gymnastics and retcons that would happen for Sanguinius to even come back – and think of all the other lore that would have to basically be flushed to make room for it. That, in my opinion, is not worth it.

Lore-crushing aside, think about the implications for the rules side of things. Guilliman got some pretty bonkers rules and he was the first loyalist to come back. Magnus also has some pretty insane rules. So how much “crazy” are you willing to put-up with when there are Primarchs from all the other chapters running around? “But they are showing up in 30k, what’s the big deal?” That’s true! But ask a Heresy-Era player and they will tell you, things are different on their side of the time-stream. Having a Primarch works for them – will 40k players be so lucky?

Corrax Lives….

Sometimes pumping the brakes for a little restraint isn’t a bad thing. With Gathering Storm wrapped-up we have seen the building blocks for a pretty big shift in the 40k universe. At this point, I’m pretty sure other Primarchs are coming back and it’s only a matter of time. My hope is that the ones that do come back are “revived” in such a way that makes sense and respects the established lore but still leave room for growth. I don’t think GW wants to “Nuke the Old World” with the 40k lore – they learned a lesson in that – but they do want to carve out some new stories and advance the plot. Not everyone is looking forward to the change, but it’s coming – are you prepared?

 

So what do you think? Is MOAR PRIMARCH MOAR AWESOME? Or is it getting to be too much?

  • Luca Lacchini

    Dorn, with an augmetic hand clenched as the iconic Fist.

    Wishful thinking, BTW.

    • Joshua Boyle

      Plus, if GW releases Dorn in a year or two the 30k players will finally get a Dorn model to go with the rules. 😉

      • Red_Five_Standing_By

        Except he may have giant robo-hands!

        • Luca Lacchini

          http://www.motuportugal.com/motucv/Fistoloose.jpg

          No, thanks. Regular augmetic will do. 😀

          • Honest Kairos

            His furry underwear is a little disturbing. Just sayin’…..

          • Luca Lacchini

            It’s pretty much the least disturbing pic I found. The ones from the cartoon… brain bleach material.

          • palaeomerus

            It’s a mini-micro-kilt!

          • ruleslawyer

            It’s a merkin

          • Honest Kairos

            You win. Everything. You win all the things.

          • Big Fat Fred

            It’s his hair.

          • vlad78

            Don’t mix AOS and 40k so soon please, leave room for hope.

    • palaeomerus

      Dorn with a synthetic reconstituted Ferrus Manus head sewn onto his neck.

    • Ben Smith

      First dreadnaught primarch?

  • Honest Kairos

    I’d say yes, if for no other reason than to let players who play SM or CSM not feel pressured to play Ultramarines or Thousand Sons.

    As a fluff player who does play Thousand Sons, it’s really awesome having Magnus on my table. I’m sure Ultramarine players will feel the same.

    I don’t see the harm in letting Raven Guard, Salamanders, Death Guard or Emperor’s Children players get the same experience.

    • vlad78

      I’m not aainst a Ragnarok experiment, as long it is well written.

      • Honest Kairos

        Exactly. I agree, as long as it’s well written and the end result is fun, I can’t see any reason not to go for it.

    • BrianDavion

      as a UM player I’ll confirm it feels awesome to just have the OPTION. I won’t always deploy him but…

      • Honest Kairos

        I’d actuallly really like to test out a Roboutte vs Magnus match up. People seem to be giving RG a hard time, but when I look at his stats/abilities in book 3 he seems pretty great to me.

        • BrianDavion

          keep in mind Magnus has like 300 points on RG, a fairer match up might be RG and 2 tatical squads vs Magnus. or something.

          • Honest Kairos

            I love how you make up the deficit with two tac squads instead of instantly going to Calgar. Actually a good choice though. Just thought it was funny “hmm… How to Balance this out? Calgar? No, screw that guy. Tactical Marines! That’s it!”

          • BrianDavion

            just grabbed the first units that came to about 300 points that came to mind. I happened to have a half assmbled tatical squad on my desk. that said, Gulliman is supposed to be a unit buffer, so it’s proably a good comparison in that regard. that said perhaps a even better companion unit would be 2 10 man sister of silence squads 🙂

          • Honest Kairos

            …..Magnus does not like Sisters of Silence.

          • BrianDavion

            part of why I noted it, I was looking at them and like “jeeze they’re only a PPM more then a SM tac squad and can completely shut big red down”

    • Timotheus

      Of course. Because it is unbearable to play WITHOUT a shiny new primarch in your army.

      • Honest Kairos

        Alright, I figured at some point someone would make that statement; but here’s the thing, the answer to your statement is Yes. For any Army in the game. There’s absolutely no way around the fact that at least half the enjoyment comes from the minis themselves. Whether it be a recast here, new sculpt there, Triumverate characters, Primarchs, or reincarnated Death God(ess), yeah, it’s a big part of why many people play 40K and not Checkers.

        • Timotheus

          Yeah for me too. But giant shiny models with legendary fluff are not the ones I prefer. I know I am a minority and we had this topic over and over again these days, so….

          • Honest Kairos

            I wouldn’t say you’re in the minority at all. I mean, Minis are minis and I think it’s safe to say we all like new and cool minis. I’m not making the statement that bigger is better, just saying that it’s not worse either.

    • Valourousheart

      I’d also say yes… but for a different reason.

      Of the 18 primarchs, 13 already have models and rules. And Roboute Guilliman has 2 models and rules for both 30k and 40k.

      It seems cruel to deny those last 5 chapters their primarch model.

      FW or GW, 40k or 30k, it doesn’t matter to me.
      Just make the last 5 models.

      • Honest Kairos

        I think this is also a perfectly reasonable way of thinking.

  • Sonic tooth

    yes, why should it always be about the ultramarines.

    • Jared van Kell

      But when you are Lord Commander of the Imperium you are more equal than others. I think Corax will be happy to let Guilliman take front and center stage but the Lion will be less than happy about it.

      • Sonic tooth

        True, would make for some good stories tho. I did enjoy the gathering storm narrative.

    • BrianDavion

      except they’re not really equal. all the primarchs are awesome, but stepping back from personal preferances etc, if as a writer you where told “we wanna ressurect ONE Primarch, and we want it to really shake the IoM up and change things” Gulliman really is the best choice.

  • Seamus McIntyre

    A few more Chaos primarks would be nice as I just want to see the models, but seriously, there is no ambiguity about the Lion, he is getting a doze on the rock and it would be rather easy for a watcher to pop on down with an alarm clock and wake him up.

    • Honest Kairos

      Well, if they brought Lion back, they’d have to create a new faction: Chaos Undecided.

      • Seamus McIntyre

        Would it though, the Lion has been shown to be loyal time and time again, the fallen? It still remains to be seen.

        • Honest Kairos

          You’re right, he hasn’t explicitly done anything that damning. But, I mean, something went shady with his Legion and the guy was in charge. Just saying. Either he was quietly complicit, or he was just terrible at keeping things in check with his ranks.

          • Red_Five_Standing_By

            Well, the Lion’s best friend did betray him.

          • Honest Kairos

            Ok, I’ll give you that….. But I’ve still got my eye on Lion.

          • Red_Five_Standing_By

            I think the Lion was cunning in that he wanted to see who won the war and then declare his loyalty for that person. He probably wanted the Emperor to win but that’s no reason to make it so you can’t become Horus’ best friend if he won.

          • Honest Kairos

            I don’t think that makes Lion sound less sketchy. lol

          • Dennis J. Pechavar

            But reading the HH books that was never an option for the Lion, as far as I’ve read, and he was loyal. Yes he was over the top with going after the Night Haunter but when he was kicked out of the New Imperium he saw how badly he had acted. Never said he wanted to chum up to his traitor brother.

          • vlad78

            Until we learn the fallen were the loyalists and the Lion was betrayed by those who became modern dark angels.

        • Evil_Adam

          Which, if you’ve read Gathering Storm III yet… leads to a question, why does RG shudder at the sight of Cypher’s sword… if it’s really the Lion’s?

          • william timonen

            Would guess so, it has the size of a primarchs sword.

          • Keith Wilson

            that’s the million dollar question …. it got leaked that rowboat recognized the sword …. but the shudder park was not in the leak ….. what could make a primarch shudder?

          • vlad78

            Anathame.

          • Honest Kairos

            Man, if Lion was armed with an Anatheme, he’d need Johnny Cochran to prove his innocence.

          • vlad78

            Indeed. lol But if you have any other idea… What kind of weapon can make a primarch shudder?

          • bobrunnicles

            “If the Power Fist fits, you must acquit!”

          • Honest Kairos

            Thank you for that. I laughed. God I’m a nerd.

          • Because he broke it. Guilliman was the one to break the sword during Angels of Caliban.

        • Dennis J. Pechavar

          Especially since the fluff from the books in HH have all had the Lion being loyal. His troops since his trip to Avalon are also loyal just more to redemption than anything else.

    • Jared van Kell

      Chaos Primarks…… it this where you can get Chaos artefacts at dirt cheap prices?

      (Sorry, I could not resist. :P)

      • Shawn

        I think “Primarks” are Okish warbosses, and Primarchs are human, lol.

        • Luis Otero

          No, that would be “Primorks”.

          • Shawn

            True enough, lol

      • Honest Kairos

        Isn’t that PriMart?

  • Sage

    Farsight isn’t the leader of the Tau Empire. As of the current canon he is leading a notable exile faction and hasn’t returned to lead the Fire Caste. With Aun Va dead Shadowsun is the leader fgure of the Fire Caste.

    • william timonen

      Yeah, Shadowsun is closer to being the face of the Tau empire.

      • NNextremNN

        And both couldn’t be further away from being compared to a primarch.

  • Andrea Andy Martini

    On top of all IRON HANDS.

    • DDisforDangerous

      Maybe as a servo-skull for Fullgrim.

      • Nicholas Ranégie

        Daaaaaayum!

      • Honest Kairos

        *mic drop*

    • Shawn

      Wish I could uptick this several hundred times.

  • DDisforDangerous

    Just having a big bad plastic Abbadon model would be good enough, thanks.

  • OptimusDerf

    If GW wants to make money, yes, we need more. I don’t like the smurfs, and don’t have any desire to drop cash on a model to sit on the shelf. However, I do want a giant model to hang out with my dudes, so The Lion needs to come back too.

  • Parthis

    Yes, more Primarchs. The Ultramarines may as well be the imperium at this point.

    There are so, so many great armies, chapters and stories out there that are constantly drowned out by the Ultramarines. Exploring the rest would be great.

  • Spacefrisian

    Or GW reveals brand new Primachs, cause the Emperor had spare time before Horus did his thing.

  • Parthis

    Can we all agree that the two missing Primarchs and their legions are off-limits?

    • Honest Kairos

      I can agree to that.

    • Fixer40000

      but E̸͈͇͉̙̓R̵͉̞ͨ͗̅̿ͨ̑̇́R̵̖͙ͫ͋̎́ͥ͑̑̄Oͧ̉̈̿̒ͯ҉̭̹͖̤̲͘Rͩ͋̓̎͏͕̮̝̻̭̰̖͢ ̶̴̱̫̮͔̾̾͟-̱͙̞͖ͤ̈́̏ͫ͑̑͡ ̩͈̞̟̹̫̭̇̂͗͛ͅR͇̯͖ͭͤ̍͗̈̈́͊̓͟E̵̪̟͓̻͕͇̯ͦͨ͠C̞͉̼̅̽̽Oͧ̿ͣ̋͑̚҉̰̤R̶̛͓͎̲̬͖͚͎̦̄ͦ̉ͦ͘ͅD̷̄ͨ͒̍͆҉̠̼̮ ̡̞̫̳͔̯ͭͭ́ͣͪͧ͠Eͬ̅͏̵̨͙͚̪X̡͉̣̥̪͓̟̲̋͆ͬ̃̓̎̓̚͡P̵̥͉̹̰̟̔ͪ̈ͅȔ̧̱͈͎̱́̾ͮͣ̎ͩ̐N͒̒͂͏̼̪͘G̴͍̝̗̼̹̲͍͚͆ͤ̐ͦ͐̋̓ͬE̹̤̼̯̻̠̊ͭͥ͌̌̚̕D̡̰͙͙̝ͯ͂̒͑̏ is my favourite primarch!

      • Jared van Kell

        I mean he was Primarch to two legions both called E̸͈͇͉̙̓R̵͉̞ͨ͗̅̿ͨ̑̇́R̵̖͙ͫ͋̎́ͥ͑̑̄Oͧ̉̈̿̒ͯ҉̭̹͖̤̲͘Rͩ͋̓̎͏͕̮̝̻̭̰̖͢ ̶̴̱̫̮͔̾̾͟-̱͙̞͖ͤ̈́̏ͫ͑̑͡ ̩͈̞̟̹̫̭̇̂͗͛ͅR͇̯͖ͭͤ̍͗̈̈́͊̓͟E̵̪̟͓̻͕͇̯ͦͨ͠C̞͉̼̅̽̽Oͧ̿ͣ̋͑̚҉̰̤R̶̛͓͎̲̬͖͚͎̦̄ͦ̉ͦ͘ͅD̷̄ͨ͒̍͆҉̠̼̮ ̡̞̫̳͔̯ͭͭ́ͣͪͧ͠Eͬ̅͏̵̨͙͚̪X̡͉̣̥̪͓̟̲̋͆ͬ̃̓̎̓̚͡P̵̥͉̹̰̟̔ͪ̈ͅȔ̧̱͈͎̱́̾ͮͣ̎ͩ̐N͒̒͂͏̼̪͘G̴͍̝̗̼̹̲͍͚͆ͤ̐ͦ͐̋̓ͬE̹̤̼̯̻̠̊ͭͥ͌̌̚̕D̡̰͙͙̝ͯ͂̒͑̏.

        • Shawn

          How did you even post those. Those are brilliant.

    • william timonen

      But I want (Traitor) BLAM! and (Mutant) BLAM!

    • Xodis

      I agree with that. Just leave that whole mess alone.

    • Keith Wilson

      nope … that would be the best IMO

    • vlad78

      Nothing is off limit for the dollar god.

    • PrimoFederalist

      They’re dead, so…. yes.

  • Dennis J. Pechavar

    Janus shows up and reveals himself as Omegon! RG peals back his mask to reveal himself as Alpharius. Just as planned!

    • Honest Kairos

      I’m secretly hoping Alpharius has disguised himself as a giant chair for the past few thousand years and reveals himself to be the God Emperor.

    • Red_Five_Standing_By

      We already know who Janus is.

    • Jared van Kell

      Actually Janus was who Ruveal Arvida became when his soul merged with one of Magnus’s shattered soul fragments.

      • Dennis J. Pechavar

        Seriously? Good Lord that’s horrible. Oh well it’s what happens when I don’t keep up with current fluff.

        • The story revealing it is actually pretty amazing. The shards of Magnus thing is still not fully explained, as The Crimson King is not out til summer.
          It does appear to be a psychic fragment of the Red that splintered off when he breached the psychic wards of the Palace. There is also the heavy implication that the Tutelaries held by the Thousand Sons (see: ATS) were actually not simply daemon-beings, but part of Magnus’s soul in the warp.

        • Jared van Kell

          It was the only way to save Arvida from the flesh change.

  • Red_Five_Standing_By

    We will get every Primarch who is alive but they will not be like their 30k counterparts. Something will be different about each of them.

    The traitor Primarchs will be tainted by chaos (be they Daemon Princes or merely empowered by the gods).

    Dorn will likely have giant robo hands. I imagine Russ will be full Wulfen/Werewolf. Sanguinius is likely a spirit-angel whom the Blood Angels call the Sanguinor. Corax will have Frankenstein body guards. The Lion will fall asleep at random times on the battlefield. Ferrus Manus will be a human head atop a transforming robot body. Khan will be some kind of motorcycle-centaur. Vulkan… Well he’ll be normal. He’s a perpetual after all.

    • Jeramy Bailey

      NO!!! The Lion will not fall asleep at random times on the battlefield. Those times will be tactically brilliant and precise!

      • Honest Kairos

        I’ve been known to engage in Tactical Napping from time to time. It’s a perfectly valid strategy.

        • Deathwing

          codex approved. even the codex author did it

        • vlad78

          It’s called the ostrich strategy. All dark angels are taught how to use it.

          • Honest Kairos

            Guerilla Napping and Snitches get Stiches. The Dark Angels way.

      • Red_Five_Standing_By

        “My lord, we are being overrun, what are your orders?”

        “Grab my safety blanket! I require a strategy session!”

      • Jared van Kell

        Though the Lion will be filled with a secret jealous rage that Guilliman is in the position that he wants.

        • Nah, the Lion won’t care about Guilliman being in charge as long as he makes him Lord Commander of the Armies of the Imperium (aka Warmaster without the filthy heretic connotations) because tactically speaking, Lion El Jonson was among the Best of his brothers as well being a renowned fighter earning the moniker of ‘The Duelist’.

    • vlad78

      I liked your post, but it started derailing after the word sanguinor.

  • SilentPony

    The reason they brought only Guilliman back is that every other Primarch would flip the F out at the Imperium. Guilliman is pissed sure, but Russ, Khan, Corax, Dorn, Vulkan would have cleaned house. Reconstituted their Legion, kill all the High Lords, destroy the church, purge the Inquisition, etc…

    Guilliman is the most compromising of the living Primarchs.

    • Honest Kairos

      Can you imagine if Russ was the returning Primarch? Look, I’m not sure what “Wolftime” actually means, but in no way would it be a good thing for stabilizing the Imperium.

      • SilentPony

        It’d actually be an interesting character study if Russ had to learn patience and compromise a few things.

    • Red_Five_Standing_By

      Guilliman made the Imperium’s government, so of course he is the least inclined to burn it down and start over.

      • Patrick Boyle

        He’s not exactly happy with what they’ve done in his absence though. He’s woken up in a nightmare mockery of the Imperium he left, he barely recognizes his former legion in the modern Ultramarines and is aghast at all the trappings of religion everywhere. He’s putting up with all of it because he needs the support of various Imperial organizations to even keep humanity alive and out of the clutches of Chaos, but that’s the only reason he puts up with stuff like the church confirming his divinity. One of his first acts after meeting with the Emperor is to kick half the High Lords off the council. Dealing with the Imperium’s internal issues will have to wait until things are more stable, basically. He’s otherwise all about doing all of those things.

        • Red_Five_Standing_By

          Theres’ a difference between cleaning up the Imperium’s government and getting rid of everything and starting over, which is what other Primarchs would be more inclined to do.

    • Karru

      This is the biggest reason why I was always in favour for Guilliman to be the one to return. Russ is the least likely candidate to actually help Imperium as he would just continue his hunt for Magnus, especially once he learns what he did to Fenris system. Beyond that all the other Primarchs would have either lost their mighty sh1ts and go nuts. The current Imperium is nothing what the Emperor pictured and they will stop at nothing to see it fulfilled.

      • orionburn

        Which is why seeing other Primarchs come back would really shake things up. Not that I want a repeat of HH, but to see the Lion return and find out Gulliman was hanging around with Cypher…yeah that would cause some friction. It would be an interesting story line to see how the different chapters would react. Let’s say the Lion would want to burn it all down, but his chapter has been trying to redeem themselves for how long serving the Imperium. Would they toss that aside to follow their Primarch, or would they remain loyal to the Imperium?

        I personally am hoping for a mix of the Imperium either turning into another civil war (without Chaos really being to blame for it) and seeing the Xenos races bringing some serious hurt.

        • Karru

          That would be the ideal scenario, but knowing GW they won’t do it. The problem is that it would have to be followed by some major shake ups to the Imperial Mega Alliance, which would lead to their favourite armies losing power. That’s why it won’t happen.

          I always hoped that when Guilliman returned that he would start a reform of the Imperium towards the original idea of the Emperor. This would lead to a split of the Imperium. Two factions that cannot ally with each other in battle bros. One led by the Ecclesiarchy and the other led by Guilliman. Once again it would lead into splitting of the Imperium which would lead to the design teams favourite armies getting less powerful, so its a no go.

    • Shawn

      You may have a point, but it would still make a good story. I can just imagine Ferrus Manus “fixing” the Imperium. LOL.

  • Jay Doggett

    Yeah, the Lion!

  • Damistar

    I agree that GW should be careful in releasing more Primarchs. Even though I generally play Imperial, I think they should stop at Guilliman. Releasing the other 3 Daemon Primarchs would be a good idea however, as CSM could use the boost for cult armies.

    • Jared van Kell

      I would say that the Lion, Vulkan and Corax would be the best Primarch’s to return to the fold. I would be inclined to think that Corax would be the one to take the fight to Abaddon, slowing his advance towards Terra. Vulkan would be the one to deal with the problem of Ghazghull and the Lion, well I think the Lion will do as he pleases.

      • Keith Wilson

        i think it will be the Lion and Russ for sure as that will sell more models ….. after that either Dorn or Vulkan so 4 good guys and 4 bad guys since its pretty much a given that the demon primarchs are coming

    • vlad78

      There are lots of deamon primarchs out there, Magnus, Mortarion, Angron, Fulgrim, Perturabo, Lorgar, and even maybe Omegon. And they were roused by Abaddon to commit against the Imperium. All except maybe Omegon are deamon primarchs, how do you expect the Imperials to stand against them unless other loyalists primarchs reveal themselves? Guilliman reminded us the gap between humans, astartes and primarchs in the quick purge of Macragge. The gods are just starting to wake up.

      I just hope GW will be able to add more tragedy and epicness to this story.

  • Byungwook Kim

    You wont see guilliman on serious table top. Because he walks. That is why we need Sanguinius back.

    He was the emperor of imperium secundum. Maybe that will happen again.

    • Honest Kairos

      It would be hard to find a way to bring Sanguinius back, he, unfortunately died pretty definitively.

      • Byungwook Kim

        So does girliman. In the third book. He first dies and come alive again through Yneeds power.

        Sorry for the spoiler.

        • Honest Kairos

          Oh, no spoiler, you’re fine. But, RG never technically “died” though, he was just taking a REALLY long stasis nap.

          • Byungwook Kim

            No… the party of Ynnari, Cawl, and others first destroy the stasis cell, kills RG, and brings him back like a zombie.

          • Honest Kairos

            Oh you’re right! I forgot about the whole “Big Bobby G is only alive now because we brought him back from kinda killing him and stuffed him in this weird (redacted) absolutely amazing heretical (redacted) Xenos (redacted) suit.

          • Jared van Kell

            Guilliman did actually die. However the whole process of resurrecting him was more akin to “Have you tried turning him off and back on again?”.

            Hmmmm maybe they could try that with the Golden Throne. 😛

          • Honest Kairos

            Power Cycle the Golden Throne. Sounds perfectly feasible.

      • Sanguinius could reincarnate through the Sanguinor, as a Lesser version of himself, but still a worthy force. Either that or perhaps Mephiston could somehow function as a Psychic bridge between Sanguinious’ soul and real space allowing him to become Sanguinious’ Avatar or some such?

    • Deathwing

      Oh just throw him where you need to with Voldus or a liby conclave. its not hard to get him where you need him.

  • Admiral Raptor

    40k is already utterly overwhelmed with ridiculous rules and models, a few more aren’t going to make a difference. If Marine and Chaos players want their legendary characters to make an appearance in the game, then GW would be silly not to grab that easy money opportunity.

  • Jared van Kell

    The return of Guilliman will be a beacon to the loyalist primarchs. I certain that Lion El Johnson will be returning, facing off again Lorgar as he does. Others that will more than likely return will be Vulkan (He will have a hard on to kill Ghazghull methinks) and Corax.
    In terms of the Chaos Primarchs I am 99% certain that Mortarion, and Fulgrim will be getting models with Angron rounding out the list afterwards..

    • Keith Wilson

      id put $$ on Corax NOT coming back … Lion, Russ, Vulkan and Dorn will bring more sales

      • vlad78

        Most of us will buy all of them. They will come back sooner or later.

    • Shawn

      If they bring Fulgrim back, then it would be a real disservice to Iron Hands players not to bring back Ferrus Manus.

      • Honest Kairos

        It would be cool to have a truescale Primarch Head on the table.

  • Carey_Mahoney

    “We don’t need another heeeero…”

  • Deathwing

    Lets not forget a new version of the game is inbound. How insane were the rules for some of the End Times super 8 compared to what we got afterwards in the next iteration of the game?
    If they are working on a truly massive reworking of the game, stream lining the rules, re-balancing the armies etc, you can wager a gamble that the primarchs we have now wont be quite as big a beat stick as they are for the en..i mean gathering storm event.
    Once you take them back down towards the balance they have in 30k, not all the way but part of the way, then you start getting into a scenario where they CAN bring some more primarchs back from each side.

  • Nogle

    I have 20,000+ points of 30k/40k world eaters that need demon Angron!!!!!!!!

    • Honest Kairos

      With 20,000 pts of World Eaters, do you even need Angron?

      • Nogle

        If course I need him. I need to have every 30k/40k option 😉

        Plus one thing on my bucket list is “Angron kills the emperor”, figure demon Angron has a better chance of it

        • Honest Kairos

          I approve of this logic.

  • NNextremNN

    “Every race has always had a “leader” figure – a “Face” so to speak for the race.”

    are you kidding? The examples you give can’t compare to a primarch and all the stuff eldar and IoM got in Gathering of Storm I, II and III

  • Derek Lee

    Kahn should be brought back, the WS deserve it as much as TS did Magnus. He’s not even dead. Let’s give WS something to get new players besides bikes and a painting white challenge.

    Just to maintain parity – at least one Alpha legion primarch, so that AL players know what the heck they are fighting for besides being meme fuel.

    • Honest Kairos

      “Meme Fuel” should be in the Alpha Legion Armoury.

    • vlad78

      Omegon will be for the chaotics what Dark Angels are for the loyalists.

    • “at least one”? Not like there’s more than one left, potentially 0.

      • Derek Lee

        He could have cloned himself, but if they are all dead, that would be the most waste of potential I’ve ever seen in a game/lore.

        • How so? The whole point was that one of them died to Guilliman, and the Legion keeps pretending. A catchphrase meant as a joke turned into an ironic philosophy.

          Alpharius and Omegon were arrogant and at cross purposes at times. Them failing because of it, because of underestimating their opponents and thinking themselves too clever is on point and hammers home the grim reality of the setting.

          Their failures twist the Alpha Legion to this day, where their allegiances and true goals are incomprehensible. A lot of the overtly tainted stuff we see for them in 40k is a direct result of their Primarch(s) intentions going wrong and confusing business becoming even more tangled.

          Neither Alpharius nor Omegon need to be around to make the Alpha Legion what they are in M41. Their death(s), however, can be the catalyst for it, and it is utterly fitting. As Horus put it, their blindness places a knife at their own backs. They’re so committed to shadow games that they struggle to tell what their purpose is, beyond further obfuscation.

  • benn grimm

    Daemon primarchs yes, dead loyalist ones no.

  • Devourer

    At least there would be a lot of trouble going on and background for battles of SMs vs SMs if other primarchs came back 😀
    I would love to see Bjorn and Russ reunited to fight!

  • pokemastercube .

    as a blood angel player i do not accept calgar as the fact of the marines, that should go to the long living dante (tho i will give bjorn a deacent argument for it) and if any other primarch comes back it is sanguinius, after all he is the ultimate in being “angel of death”

  • ZeeLobby

    God, anyone else, just to make things interesting again.

  • Ravingbantha

    I can see the surviving traitor primarchs, since they have supposedly been active this entire time. Not sure about the loyalist Primarchs though. Chaos should feel like it’s always got a slight upper hand in the game, otherwise they are not exactly the boogieman they are supposed to be.

  • Emperor’s Champion

    I’d love them to revive the tension between Gilliman and Dorn since he originally didn’t agree with the codex astartes and now he has the opportunity to point and laugh (with a giant augmented fist obviously) telling him his imperium has failed.

    • Then the Fists point out that they’re now almost fanatically Codex-adherent and aren’t even the original Chapter anymore

    • __

      I think there is a slightly bigger tension between Guilliman and Lorgar, but no one cares about word bearers 🙁

  • Kinsman

    What difference does it make? The game is a jumbled mess of rules, we may as well get some amazing models out of it.

    I am more excited about 40k than I have been for YEARS. All because of Guilliman and Cypher. The more the merrier, I say.

  • Clint Mərs

    i think all the primarchs that are still around, per se’, in the lore should be represented. All the ones that said they would be back in the end times. Russ, Corax, Khan, Vulcan, Dorn i know im missing one… All the Chaos primarchs and their generals should be represented. They have the ability to do this right and flesh it out to the point where everyone is happy. You know that as well as i do. Hell im a blood angel myself i could deal with sanguinius staying dead. If they came out with a vulcan that would push me into a whole new army. And thats just one example. If they made a story grand enough to bring Sanguinius back and it wasnt completely stupid i could get in on that. They have my attention. Im a smurf hater. Last army id do as of 2 months ago. Im doing Scythes of the Emperor thats as close as I would have got. Now ill be getting Guilliman and some Red Marked. Some Suzerains for honor guard… Or bubble wrap in this case. Maybe Victrix Guard even. I would had never thought. Thats the power they have now. They have to see that

  • Tlhswallow RGN

    Iron Within! Iron Without!

  • G Ullrich

    It may be fluff crushing…but Primarchs aren’t any more crazy for 40K then the other stuff and frankly might be really fun if all Chapters and factions) have access to something a that level…besides.VULKAN LIVES!

  • Dragons Claw

    Corax Corax Corax Corax Corax Corax give me Corax and ill even buy the current set of rules and I might even play again

  • Talos2

    Yeah we need all those that should still exist. And all the Phoenix lords, and all other major characters.

  • Keaton

    Farsight is not the iconic leader of the Tau. He isn’t even a part of the Empire! Shadowsun is the figurehead.

  • PrimoFederalist

    I don’t want to hear it. You don’t get to cheer on advancing the timeline then start bitching and moaning about too many primarchs returning. That’s been one of the whole schticks the whole time – the loyal primarchs are going to return eventually and the daemon primarchs are chilling in the Warp waiting for the “big one” to go down. You called down the whirlwind, now I want my 40k Leman Russ.

    • Honest Kairos

      Leman? Is that you?

  • Dennis J. Pechavar

    So are the Wolves and numerous other chapters. Never understood why people get their panties in a bunch over the DAs. Since 2nd Ed I’ve seen almost as much hatred towards them, mind you their fluff was better then, as I see against Ultras now.

    • Loki Hargreaves

      It’s not hatred, as you say, all legions have their flaws.
      Just DA players seem to have a genuine superiority complex about their legion, and refuse to accept any criticism of them. Despite the fractured and shady back story.
      Yes, you have cool robes, and loads of awesome special units.
      No, you’re not the most loyal or reliable chapter.
      Back to the trolling; it’s fun to wind them up because they always take the bait and can never take a joke. Simples.

  • Rich

    I would MUCH rather a total mechanics rewrite then retconning the whole story. by total mechanice rewrite I mean changing out from a d6 to d10 or d20 and having the statline mean more.

  • MechBattler

    There’s nothing I dislike more than loose ends. With the plot line started during the Horus Heresy now picking up steam toward a conclusion, whatever that may be, a concrete conclusion for each of the Primarchs needs to happen. Having most of them remain MIA is just sloppy and lazy. They either need to be confirmed 100% dead or alive.
    Whether they come back as models or not is up to GW, but personally I feel that bringing them back into the game for round two as daemon primarchs vs loyalist primarchs is the best way to illustrate how much has changed and eventually finish the plot thread started 10,000 years ago.

  • David Mayfield

    #bringferrusback

  • Andrew

    This is literally the dumbest question someone could ask: “Do we need more primarchs.” In a single post you have achieved the impossible coming off as both asinine and pretentious. Just as a business stand point for GW: in order to remain in business they need to continually expand their product range adding more models.

  • jazeroth

    Sanguinous can come back as a angel primarch like celestial is. That would be cool and Gw could do the same for any dead chaos priamarchs

  • eehaze

    CSM has a plethora of unique characters, but they are all melee-focused. What CSM lacks is a reliable way to get those characters into combat.

  • Edward Blaylock

    Let two in, ya gotta let the rest in. The horse has already left; shutting the barn door at this point would only leave non-smurf and non-1Ksons players angry and feeling neglected. Bring ’em all in, says I!

  • Arianod

    *Tina Turner voice* We don’t need another Priiimarch