40K RUMORS: Armageddon Shadow War Latest

There’s some word doing the rounds on the upcoming Armageddon: Shadow Wars.

There has been a slow trickle of info on the launch of the upcoming game these last few days. Here’s the latest set:

via faeit 3-22-2017

1) Participating stores will be getting an organized play kit on the 1st  
that includes everything you need to play including a complete rulebook  
just like the one from the game box.

2) In this game “hired guns” are called “specialists”, those are what the  
cards you’ve seen for the Deathwatch Veteran and Flash Gitz are for.

3) The rulebook will only contain rules for Space Marines, Imperial Guard  
and Orks. The other faction rules will be on the website.

Previous Info

Game Basics

Here’s the basics from our BoLS reporter on site at the GAMA trade show:

  • Necromunda will re-released in a new reimagined edition.
  • Titled Armageddon Shadow Wars
  • Rules will be almost identical to the original.
  • Organized Play support will accompany the new game.
  • Unlike Killteam, there is a point-based system for buying your gang.
  • The game does NOT use the 40K rules, stats, etc at all.
  • The game will ship with 12+ factions.
  • The core box will contain Blood Angels Marine Scouts and Orks

Here’s the cards referenced in the rumors handed out to retailers at GAMA:

 

And of course the pics from GAMA:

 

 

~ More Armageddon: Shadow Wars info as it comes in.

  • Roughneck

    Doesnt use the rules and stats?
    Funny I’m sure I saw in the pic WS, BS, A, I stats etc. Do we no that use them in 40k? I’ve been playing it wrong for years then.

    • Jimi Steele

      I think they’re referring to the fact that the stat lines are unique (see: Ork boyz) and the weapons use Necromunda style stats. IE, the mechanical rules are separate from core 40k

      • Roughneck

        I get your point but it’s not what they are implying.
        Of course it will use the core mechanics of 40k for rules and stats.
        Like saying someone’s car isn’t Ines because yours is petrol fueled and theirs is diesel powered.
        But stupid to say it doesn’t use the stats or rules when it’s quite obvious it does.

        • Evil_Adam

          To some extent perhaps… but, for example, it’s using old school 2nd ed close combat rules, which are a bit different than current. http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/03/40k-return-2nd-edition-close-combat.html

          • Roughneck

            We don’t know what combat system it’s using for close combat.
            This is BoLs trying to put two and two together.
            We know it’s based on necromunda which was based on 2nd ed but it’s had tweaks.
            Until we see a play through or the actual rules we haven’t a clue and are just guessing which isn’t fact based but opinion based.

        • TenDM

          What they seem to mean is that it won’t use Warhammer 40,000 rulebooks. Ie, you get the stats for the Orks from Shadow War books, not Codex Orks.
          Similar to how Heralds of Ruin doesn’t use Warhammer 40,000 stats.

          • Roughneck

            Your missing the point of what I said being very sarcastic.

        • Jimi Steele

          Look, I understand what you mean, but they mean that you can’t take a 40k statline and use it in Shadow War. Its the same concepts, but the stats are tweaked. Sure, the statement makes it seem more than it is, but its not that hard to see what they mean.

          • Roughneck

            Your missing my point.
            An article should be clear cut and say what it means not hype something that essentially isn’t true

          • Jimi Steele

            But is *is* true. You couldn’t use a ‘Space Marine Codex’ in a game of Shadow War. They are separate *games*. Their rules, and by extension stats, are independent. The article states that. Compare that to the current Kill Team, which *does* use core 40k stats. How does this not make sense?

          • Roughneck

            Your honestly going to tell me they aren’t going to use the BS table or WS table or wounds.
            Of course they are going to use the core mechanics of 40k like necromunda used the core mechanics of 2nd ed 40k.
            Just because you don’t use a 40k codex doesn’t mean you dont use the core rules of 40k like rolling to hit etc.
            Anyone can say you think they meant it that way but the only person who knows how they meant it when they wrote it is the authour. Who still hasn’t clarified how he meant it.
            If your looking for an excuse for a poorly written article to be correct you’ll always find them.
            Sorry that I expect a higher standard.
            The final thing is it’s been said to be a reimagining of the necromunda esq rules by Andy Smilie he’s never definitively said and neither has GW this is the new necromunda. If I’m correct he called it an espionage game not a gang skirmish one in the video interviews

          • Jimi Steele

            You’re an idiot, I give up.

          • Roughneck

            No I just expect better and don’t fanboy like you clearly do.
            Everything I’ve said is a valid response and if you don’t like it don’t reply. It’s not my fault your response is easy to shoot down.
            Because you “know” how it was meant which you don’t, just like I don’t but to save the argument the authour could have written a better article articulating what they meant which they didn’t.

          • Jimi Steele

            Clarifying a statement based on an article from a website we are both currently on is not “fanboying”. You are being pointlessly confrontational.

          • Roughneck

            No your a fanboy and can’t take it when someone who played necromunda shoots your arguments down.
            Ask anyone before this about necromunda and they will tell you all it was is second ed with a campaign system.
            What I’ve said is correct and your final childish response showed you knew you were wrong

          • Jimi Steele

            >Arguements
            I want you to carefully reread every post I’ve made in response to you. Completely ignore the fact that its a GW game, or that its 40k related, or even that its claimed to be a Necromunda reboot. Okay, now…

            Let’s recap.
            -Article claims Game X features a ruleset seperate from Game Y. (IE, using rules from Game Y within Game X wouldn’t be legal within Game X)
            -Your first post claims ‘I’ve played Game Y for years, this new one clearly uses rules from it.
            -I responded with ‘Well, there is some mechanical crossover, but Game X is said to be designed to be a standalone game’
            -Your next point follows up that you disagree, and I returned with another clarification.

            There’s no ‘fanboying’ (which is a pointless straw-man fallacy anyway). This was a discussion of viewpoints regarding a new tabletop game, and whether *a single line from an article* was correct or not. My points only offer to clarify the line from the article, which I believe is not misleading. It is a new, separate game system, whether or not its based on older systems or features mechanical crossover from another well known game, the line states that they are intended to function independent from each other, and this in my eyes is factually correct.

          • Roughneck

            You can’t offer clarity on something a) you didn’t write or b) don’t know the persons intentions.
            You are surmising which is fanboying of the highest order.
            You have no facts to back up what you have said where I clearly have.

          • Jimi Steele

            Neither of us have all of the facts. We are posting comments about rumors, based on snippets of leaked information. We both have the same amount of information regarding the new game. Whether or not you agree is up to you, but claiming that I am ‘fanboying’, when you yourself are using anecdotal evidence to begin with, is clearly off base.
            You’re being pointlessly confrontational, as I said before.

            The core argument, which I would like to remind you yet again, is whether a single sentence from an article is correct or not in stating ‘Shadow war does not use 40k stats or rules.’

            I’ll provide you with my evidence for thinking this is indeed correct, at least from what pieces of information are available.

            -Ork Boyz have modified stats. Therefor, an Ork codex (which would count, in this case, as ’40k Stats’) would not be appropriate to use in play within the new game.
            -Additional stats and game unique gear options. Featured in the Genestealer Cultist leaks, we can see that models are equipped differently than in the core 40k game. Therefor, one could not likely use the 40k Rulebook (which would count, in this case, as ’40k Rules’) would not be appropriate to use in play within the new game.

            Now, tell me, from those pieces of evidence, one could reasonably state “The new game uses a featureset unique to itself, and therefor does not use the previous game’s Rules and Stats”. The argument you’ve made may indeed be valid, from a semantics basis, but it does not mean the article is either ‘lying’ nor ‘hyping’.

          • Roughneck

            My comment about using 40k rules is fact though as it is.
            Your the one trying to devine someone’s intentions from what they wrote.
            I’ve made comments based on what they exactly wrote and used sarcasm with it as it was a stupid statement to make when everything shows it to be incorrect.
            Will the game use roll to hit tables and roll to wound tables? Yes it will. Are those the same in the 40k rulebook, yes they will be as was necromundas with 2nd ed so hence it will use the core mechanic ruleset from 40k, will some things be adapted? Yes, I never said they wouldn’t be.
            I pointed out a stupid and incorrect statement that you jumped up to protect, without anything to back you up.
            As I said I’ve facts to back up what I’ve said.
            All you have is your opinion of a sentence, which isn’t a fact I’m afraid. So that equals fanboyism as you haven’t a leg to stand on.
            Also let me put this out there, I might just know more than you think.

          • Jimi Steele

            I had plenty to stand on. I literally just provided two pieces of evidence to support my claims (and, side note, you made two statements which you cannot back up. Whether or not they are likely, you claimed I made unsupported arguments, and then returned with some of your own).

            The point of the comment section is discourse. So yes, I attempted to clarify the statements made in the article. How you see this as ‘fanboying’ is beyond me. Its also a very poor way of carrying out a discussion, by trying to dismiss someone’s points by claiming they’re a ‘fanboy’. Try and dismiss me all you want, I’ve provided sufficient arguments. I even started out polite.

          • Roughneck

            I’m not dismissing it at all, there you go again devining what I meant in a sentence.
            You can’t clarify a sentence you didn’t write, your assuming you know which you dont. The only person who can clarify it is the author which you are not. So until that happens you take it as written, hence the sarcasm.
            Actually I can back up all I’ve said and have done.
            Actually you weren’t polite as you called me an idiot for disagreeing with you, which was first shot fired
            So please tell me more of your alternative facts. Are you sure you don’t work for the White House press department as your quite good with them?

          • Jimi Steele

            If I asked you to provide evidence that the new game uses rollable tables, you could? Its an assumption. A reasonable one, I would agree with, but an assumption. I can literally provide you evidence that the new game uses a proprietary ruleset, which the statement in the article claims. Claiming I can’t divine the author’s intention from their statement is ridiculous. Your first post does literally that.

            This is the core of the argument. We are talking about whether a game does or does not use a ruleset from another game. Why is this statement even relevant? Because, many people could assume this new box carries over from the recently released Kill Team, which, unlike Shadow War, DOES use 40k Rules, even going as far to include the rulebook.

          • Roughneck

            You mean kill team which is now a direct only product? Which also means it’s not selling well.
            The whole point of this has really been a poorly written article that is in essence factually incorrect.
            Tbh that’s half of the problems here anyways.
            You toon issue with me saying that you can’t possibly know what the author meant as you aren’t them and I said as much for myself, but all I could go off was what they stated in their poorly written article, which wa fact. I wasn’t going off my interpretation of what they wrote but what they wrote.
            The tables yes as if it’s reimagined necromunda which BoLs keeps forcing down our throats as a fact it will have them as original necromunda used them as you don’t have BS, WS, T stats etc if you won’t use a table mechanics for roles. That is just game design 101 otherwise there is no need to have them.
            We can agree to disagree which is fine but you weren’t polite at all. But your issue of what I said is your opinion on what they wrote not what was physically written which is where my sarcasm in the original comment was based.

          • Jimi Steele

            I could accept ‘I was being sarcastic’ if you didn’t then continue to defend your point. So, whatever, we’ll agree to disagree. You’re completely wrong to say the article is ‘factually incorrect’, but again, its irrelevant.

          • Roughneck

            I’m not incorrect at all and What’s the point of this comment to backtrack half way through it.
            It is factually incorrect as it’s not based on fact but speculation and grains of truth. If you have 99p or 99cence you don’t have a pound or a dollar.

          • Javier Martinez

            In fact, there are multiple hints to demonstrate that it uses old 2ed rules. Like “attack roll”, “critical”, and so on. It can be a known mechanic for old players, but for the ones that started playing at 3rd edition or after, it will be “a new” game rulebook to learn. Where initiative does not dictate the order in which the minis attack, where the swords can block, and so on.

            It is not “exactly” Necromunda because it uses regular 40k miniatures instead of gangs. And yes, it is an “espionage game” because basically that is what a Shadow War is. It is about the background they have chosen for it, not about its rules.

            One cant say that Warhammer Fantasy Battles and 40k used the same rules just because they had the same stats, as Fantasy did not have AP, 40k doesnt use rank and file formations nor amour reductions, and so on. So yes, the “It does not use 40k rules” may sound a little bit propagandistic, but it is true nowadays.

            Sorry if bad written, not my native languaje.

          • Xodis

            No you wrote it beautifully.
            Just like all the editions of D&D used the same character stats, doesn’t mean they use the same rules. Most new RPG players would be really confused if I told them my characters STR was 18/67 or had an AC of -3.

          • Javier Martinez

            +1

          • Muninwing

            imagine their heads exploding if you tried to explain thac0 to them…

          • Xodis

            Oh I’ve seen it, its amazing! lol

          • Roughneck

            The second ed rules are still based in 40k and are core rules of 40k. The roll to hit etc had t changed since 2nd.
            While it is a new game, which I agree and might bring back 2nd aspects of game play, that we don’t know yet as it’s all speculation so far.
            My point is saying it won’t use 40k rules is incorrect and irresponsible reporting as of course it will as all 40k games use the basic 40k rules for shooting and leadership etc.
            Some might be adapted true enough but if your going to write an article as fact be clear and concise and report exactly that facts.
            The other point is it has never been stated this is the new Necromunda at all but a ruleset adapted and brought up to date from the old.
            By the way your English is fantastic and it was a well constructed response.

          • Xodis

            It was the first 2 bullets
            “*Necromunda will re-released in a new reimagined edition.
            *Titled Armageddon Shadow Wars”

          • Roughneck

            Games Workshop have never said it’s the new necromunda.
            Andy Smilie said it’s based on Necromunda in his interviews, no one of note has ever said it’s new necromunda.

          • Xodis

            Isn’t the BoLS reporter reporting from his interview with GW at the GAMA?

          • Roughneck

            I take it you haven’t seen the interview on YouTube? I have, I suggest you watch it.
            Also check the community site it’s never once said this is new Necromunda

          • Xodis

            Not all interviews are done on camera, and I didn’t think that interview on Youtube was even a BoLS interview only something they posted?
            Just because the Community didn’t state it, didn’t mean another GW employee did not state it in his interviews there at GAMA.

          • Roughneck

            You have no clue it was a live stream and Andy Smilie mentioned Necromunda and everyone’s been going it definitely is but can tell you this if it was Necromunda they would call it that.
            Blood bowl was called blood bowl after all no sports arena combat. This is an espionage game not a gang combat one which is what Necromunda is

          • Xodis

            I have a very good clue about how interviews are done and how news progresses since I actually work in the News business, but I may not have seen the video YOU are referring to. The video I saw on youtube with the GW employee did not seem to be a BoLS reporter, at least not on camera. So there is a high chance that there are other sources and other interviews have been done. If you believe that is the only source of information, it does make sense why you are so adamant about your views though.

            Bloodbowl was a direct reboot of the game which already had a large following in both the digital and physical games…changing it isn’t good for business since they knew it would sell.

            Necromunda is a little more risky, which is why they seemed to have done the smart thing by releasing a similar ruleset that plays with models everyone already owns.

          • Roughneck

            Necromunda isn’t risky at all,
            It’s one of the most popular games they ever did. More popular than blood bowl.
            Have you seen the prices necromunda minis go for on eBay? You do know BoLs doesn’t have reporters right? And I can point out the Horus Heresy Gladius article when the last update to the red book happened to prove this and how little research they do. Everything is fan based. Clearly you don’t know Jews well to think BoLs has dedicated reporters
            Everyone have seen the interview as it’s where these articles have come from.
            Why do you think specialist games came back? So I’m guessing titanicus is risky aswell keeping its name? That’s hilarious.
            Please GW are so over protective of their IP it’s untrue ala chapterhouse to name one example that you really think they wouldn’t use a name they hold the rights to?
            Whatever you say…….

          • Xodis

            Do you have anything to support those opinions of popularity? I hear a lot of hype for Necromunda, and I personally want to play it, but I’m not sure how you even go about measuring or determining how true that is. As for eBay prices, its just because they are rare and OOP, look at HeroQuest or any of the garbage 80’s board games that sell for a lot.
            They dont? Then who actually does these reports and articles? Oh you mean like dedicated reporters on the clock…yeah you dont have to have that to have reporters. Pick up a phone, make a call, and publish some information and BAM…you have a reporter.
            If everyone has seen that interview, and those are not quotes from the interview….doesn’t that further prove they are either A) Pulling out of their rear or B) have another source?
            You’re right, so its only a matter of time until its no longer Warhammer since that can’t be under copywrite either…..yeah that will happen.

            “Clearly you don’t know Jews well to think BoLs has dedicated reporters” And on that note, I’m done talking to an anti-semite.

          • Roughneck

            As I said read the Horus Heresy Gladius article where people intentionally trolled BoLs with false information to see if they did research.
            I was there for necromunda and still see it played more than it was back in the day due to it being a proper skirmish game ala Mordheim.
            eBay prices when it comes to bidding is actually a very accurate yard stick for how popular a gaming system is that’s no longer made.
            Think you will find Warhammer won’t run out anytime soon since all store are being rebranded to that name gradually to stop people ringing about video games consoles. Warhammer can actually be copywriten and last I checked actually is.
            BoLs has contributors but no actual reporters as when they get flagged about inaccuracy it gets noted they aren’t a news site which I personally would say they are but reporters as such that they pay to go to events etc….. none.
            Ok then where’s the proof to these bullet points such as a recorded conversation or a name to the comments….. prove me wrong go to YouTube and watch it since these articles first appeared 10 minutes after it happened. But wait that means you have to do some research to your comment that I have.

          • Xodis

            Dude, you’re a bigot for your comment…Im done with you.

          • Roughneck

            https://youtu.be/cvgv2aFfy9w
            There’s your link, also you might want to read a dictionary or look for a new job as you clearly don’t know what a bigot is.

          • Xodis

            Bigot: Someone that is intolerant of others views.
            Anti-Semitism: hostile to or prejudiced against Jews
            Jewish: relating to, associated with, or denoting Jews or Judaism.

            Yeah 2+2= You being a bigot and anti-semitic.

          • Roughneck

            Never said anything about Jews? Think your projecting there.
            Bigot, for what knowing what I’m saying and you not

          • Xodis

            REALLY!!!!????

            Let me quote it for you AGAIN!

            “Clearly you don’t know Jews well to think BoLs has dedicated reporters”

            So what DID you mean by that?

          • Roughneck

            You mean spell check but Jews instead of news, as that’s what happened.
            Talk about 2+2=5
            Read a full sentence and look at context before commenting.
            Oh wait isn’t this you doing what I said about a bullet point?
            Taking something literally rather than intended?

          • Xodis

            Oh yeah, it was a typo…..

            In the context you could have clearly meant both….and you intending to mean news and typing Jews isn’t really any fault of mine. I figured if it was a typo it would have been corrected and addressed when I FIRST mentioned it.

            As to your comment, of course I know News, as I said its actually my business, but reporters get things wrong…just look at all MSM currently. So no I dont expect a website like BoLS to get it 100% every time.

          • Roughneck

            Hahahaha yeah of course, projecting again. Think you need to get that chip off your shoulder.
            In the context I couldn’t have meant both at all, wow I pity whatever news outlet you work for as they must have a certain special place for you as it can’t be anywhere important.
            Actually I didn’t get what you meant till you showed the sentence and did correct it but again I’m Jewish so to me it sounds like your projecting.
            It can’t be your business as when I said research what I said you wouldn’t, any person worth their salt in that industry would have. I even gave you the link to the video to prove me wrong.
            Your ignorance is astounding

          • Xodis

            How would I be projecting when I read YOUR words?
            You clearly could have meant both, as there is a stereotype of Jewish people being stingy with money and you could have been saying they would never spend the money on a reporter, which makes sense seeing as you replied to my comment about having dedicated reporters on the payroll.
            Actually I did, and it’s the same video I knew you would link, which goes back to my ORIGINAL point that you don’t seem to grasp, so I’ll break it down to a Mickey Mouse level for you: “News Sites” or whatever BoLS wants to classify itself as usually have MORE than one source….did you get it this time? Your entire argument is based around BoLS having only 1 source.
            Yes, if that is their only source then they clearly lied and made stuff up…but what are the odds the GW guy ONLY talked to that guy?
            Shouldn’t call others ignorant when you have major spelling issues (seriously I hate calling people out on it because its weak but in your case it needs to be said) backed up by a constant stream of unnecessary aggression, coupled with a narcissistic need to be right at all costs. Seriously you continue to move to goal posts in this “discussion” and make assertions that can’t be substantiated in any meaningful way.

          • Muninwing

            he accused me of being a liar when i was a redshirt because “GW would never hire someone like me”

            and this was all because he kept repeating a potentially off-topic comment as if it was gospel truth, when two seconds and some basic logic would have made him realize he was being foolish.

            he might just be a slightly more evolved troll, who really likes to try to exert dominance in a really petty way.

            though in this case, i’d assume it was a typo… though if he wasn’t quite so antagonistic and illogical he’d be more likely get the benefit of the doubt that we both are less willing to give him…

          • Xodis

            That’s exactly my point, his entire demeanor during the conversation with me(although I do understand the anger when someone calls you an idiot, but I didn’t) was far from a simple “here is my point of view”, so it fits that aggressive people would most likely be a bigot.

          • Muninwing

            you’re beating your head into a brick wall… he’s always right, he’s willing to contradict his own point to confuse you into agreeing with him, and he isn’t bound by such paltry human concepts like basic logic or continuity.

          • Xodis

            I’m just glad someone else sees it.

          • Javier Martinez

            Thanks

            well, in fact it uses other rules, like injuries, Silencers and all. I can agree in that “not a 100% identical rules doesnt make it a totally different game”, of course, but I dont think that makes the article’s statement absolutely false either(In fact, it is not the unique statement, and the rest of them seems accurately enough). More like…just a little marketing to mainatin the hype. But that, obviously, is just my subjective opinion.

          • Roughneck

            My point is if you wrote an article you need to be clear and concise and factually correct.
            To say it uses no 40k rules or stats is a false statement which is the issue I’m raising.
            Like I said regarding classic Necromunda if you want to play it GW employees in high places tell you just use 7th and add a campaign system which is all Necromunda was to second ed.

          • Muninwing

            in writing, intentions don’t matter if they don’t carry in the text. we’re not psychic. the author is dead.

            but surmising isn’t fanboying — you’re jumping to conclusions that are not stated.

            you need to make a decision. should you care about intent? because if so, then you’re being crass and antagonizing in your responses because you are not giving others the leeway you are demanding. if not, then you have no point to start with.

          • Roughneck

            I get what your saying but my original comment that I got jumped all over for saying was something was written incorrectly and implied something that wasn’t correct.
            When I provided facts to prove my point I got jumped over even more.
            Crass not at all, antagonistic even less, I can be both which me and zee have both done to each other in the past.
            The fanboy comment was on response to being called an idiot which admittedly I shouldn’t have risen to.
            I took his point on board which is why I said I was only commenting on what was written not interpreting how it was meant to be.
            I’m not going to take stick for what I say when others do the same to me. Why should I? Apart from these two people I think you’ll find I’ve been accommodating to others views and said they would be right if it was worded how they had written it.
            While I respect your comment you have to compare the response to others and theirs inkind

          • Xodis

            “antagonistic even less” That’s cute, please show me where I started antagonizing you prior to your “typo”?

          • Roughneck

            I could say the same.
            Your projected views offended my sensibilities greatly.
            But you provided plenty of entertainment with them.
            Truest me if you think that’s antagonistic you’ve obviously never played competitive sports or anything of that ilk.

          • Xodis

            Conversations are not competitive….. but nice Strawman I guess.

            Good job dodging the question though, and by all means say the same so I can show you the string of conversations where you were openly rude and crass (like you denied) before the “typo” where I stopped caring if I offended a bigot or not.

            Did you just contradict yourself by saying you were both offended and entertained by me?

          • Roughneck

            You miss the point.
            I can still be offended by what you said about a certain percentage of the populace and then be amused by your lack of knowledge yes.
            As I said that’s not crass at all I just don’t suffer fools lightly.
            Again you don’t know the meaning of the word bigot as others made a similar point to you and I actually agreed with them as they knew what they were talking about just I didn’t with you as you didn’t know what you were talking about.
            And then lied about not seeing or knowing a video you knew about.
            Who said a conversation was competitive but a debate is.
            Also being rude is open to perception as is crass, opinions are like butt holes everyone has them.
            Though please keep responding your making mine and the guys night

          • Xodis

            Debates are only competitive if you don’t have facts to support you. Otherwise there is only a right or wrong answer. The competition isn’t in talking points or whatever you may believe, its in getting a fool to understand why they are wrong, that’s not in the conversation, that’s in the fools comprehension.

            I didn’t lie about not seeing a video, I said I did see a video, but said there may be a different video (as multiple videos exist on the internet) that you were talking about. Then you linked the video, and yes I had seen it.

            Weird how I don’t know the meaning of the word yet specifically quoted the dictionary for you…. still being hostile and aggressive even in the wake of you being wrong about most things here. Weird “Again you don’t know the meaning of the word bigot as others made a similar point to you and I actually agreed with them as they knew what they were talking about just I didn’t with you as you didn’t know what you were talking about.” So you agreed when other people called you a bigot? I guess it wasn’t a typo after all.

          • Roughneck

            No when I stated there was a video where Andy Smillie was interviewed you said you hadn’t seen it at all which was a lie.
            Hostile Jesus, if anything I’m trying to not just put hahaha to everything you say.
            Again if you think this is aggressive, I hope you never enter the real world as you in for a shock. I’d look st yourself before pointing fingers at ones behaviour.
            Not at all I couldn’t agree with you if I tried as I don’t think I could comprehend living in a dream world where someone thinking your talking rubbish is a bigot and offends you.
            I couldn’t care less if you agree or don’t and like I said at this point it’s just funny seeing your replies.

          • Xodis

            Actually I didn’t state that at all, the great thing about the internet is how one can go back and read everything that was typed out.
            RN – Games Workshop have never said it’s the new necromunda.
            Andy Smilie said it’s based on Necromunda in his interviews, no one of note has ever said it’s new necromunda.

            Me – Isn’t the BoLS reporter reporting from his interview with GW at the GAMA?

            RN – I take it you haven’t seen the interview on YouTube? I have, I suggest you watch it.
            Also check the community site it’s never once said this is new Necromunda

            Me – Not all interviews are done on camera, and I didn’t think that interview on Youtube was even a BoLS interview only something they posted?
            Just because the Community didn’t state it, didn’t mean another GW employee did not state it in his interviews there at GAMA.

            RN – (This is where you start being your normal crass self btw) You have no clue it was a live stream and Andy Smilie mentioned Necromunda and everyone’s been going it definitely is but can tell you this if it was Necromunda they would call it that.
            Blood bowl was called blood bowl after all not sports arena combat. This is an espionage game not a gang combat one which is what Necromunda is

            Me – I have a very good clue about how interviews are done and how news progresses since I actually work in the News business, but I may not have seen the video YOU are referring to. The video I saw on youtube with the GW employee did not seem to be a BoLS reporter, at least not on camera.

            Is that it? Is that the phrase where I stated I hadn’t seen it? Reading comprehension goes a long way btw.

            Seriously man, English, can you type it? Its getting harder and harder to understand your dribble.
            “Insult, insult, inslt (misspelled purposely for you), I’m better than everyone, inlts (again its on purpose to imitate you) hahaha.”
            What’s really funny is how you still try to be superior when you cant even spell it….and I TYPED IT SO YOU CAN COPY IT!

          • Roughneck

            I’m trying to not laugh at you constantly going on about this.
            BoLs haven’t interviewed anyone regarding the Game. Let me ask you like I did before where is the proof, oh wait you avoided that and couldn’t give me an answer, because guess what? They haven’t interviewed anyone.
            Again pleas keep up your childish antics with the insults, technically I haven’t insulted you yet. There’s thing when your typing on a smart phone it auto corrects things. Kinda hard to type while laughing.
            Keep it up…..

          • Xodis

            Well I’m glad we both are having such an entertaining conversation….but refrain from excuses…that’s just sad.
            Where is your proof they didn’t? When a news agency puts out “news” it’s understood that they have a source to get this information. I never stated that they did or did NOT have another source, only that anyone with a smidgen of credibility wouldn’t pull things from their rear…so the burden of proof is on you little one.
            Maybe not but “you offended my sensibilities”. lol

          • Roughneck

            They even have said they haven’t, if I remember correctly they say their source or to such effect.
            Again show me where they sent a reporter or interviewer? Oh wait they haven’t, keep deflecting. I’ll keep lauging

          • Xodis

            Deflecting? What am I deflecting? You can’t just google some terms and use them, you need to know HOW to use them and use them properly.
            Oh have they? That would be a great piece of evidence to support your case….why not try and find it so you actually have something to support your case? Ill make a good reporter out of you yet 😀

            Also, like I just addressed (reading comprehension…seriously try to work on it) the burden of proof isn’t on me because I never said they DID or DID NOT have a reporter or other source than the video…..you made the allegation YOU have to prove it.

          • Roughneck

            Still don’t answer the question.
            They stated themselves it’s not someone they sent.
            Believe me if you only knew half of the hobby information I do from people but thats neither here nor there.
            I proved it earlier by stating the timeline of events as these bullet points appeared within 5 minutes of the livestream.
            But I guess because you weren’t here when that happened it didn’t.
            And now whose being condescending? Enjoy being a hypocrite much?
            Good to see you enjoy trying to force others to answer your questions but don’t answer others, there’s a term for that sort of behaviour that has started more than one war throughout history, but I digress……
            As I said believe what you will and have fun with it………
            you have your views I have mine, you think mine are wrong, I think yours are. I don’t really care much beyond that and don’t take any of this personally as what’s the point?

          • Xodis

            So tell us more about how you work close with the industry and peak behind the curtain? I love Tweedle stories.

          • Roughneck

            See this is the point, why should I?
            If only you knew how wrong you were…..
            Surely since you work in the news business you must know what I do and who I am.

          • Xodis

            Of course I do, how can anyone not know about Roughneck the BoLS Troll! Once he gets unmasked by Scooby and the gang we all see that its really Tweedle in disguise!

          • Roughneck

            Ohh…. how witty
            Come up with that one buy yourself?
            Or you just getting mad someone won’t play your game?

          • Xodis

            Nope I went ahead and googled “how to laugh at internet trolls” and luckily enough a whole page specifically about you popped up.

          • Roughneck

            I’m flattered, truly.
            Funny thing is anyone can be brave behind a keyboard…….

          • Xodis

            Really…how DOES one be brace behind a keyboard?

          • Roughneck

            Check again warrior😊

          • Xodis

            Awe! You care so much you edited your response….that’s pathetic.

          • Roughneck

            Have you seen your last few responses? Predictive text is a pain sometimes
            Try again……

          • Xodis

            Try again what? I’ve already got you so frazzled you actually deleted your typo comment and retyped it just to prevent me from saying anything. No need to interact with you further. Bu-bye!

          • Roughneck

            You haven’t got me flustered at all. I do believe that is the word you were looking for Mr. News man.
            Clearly you can’t handle someone who is disinterested in you anymore and not rising to the bait.
            Prey tell how. Did I delete it? Think you’ll find I corrected it as soon as I posted it as again I’m doing this on this wonderful invention called an iPhone.
            Shame you were going so well

          • nuggy

            wow dude are you ok? You seem to have some serious projection issues.

          • Roughneck

            Dude this was just down to me playing along with someone who took my autocorrect changing a word to big lengths. As someone of the Jewish faith I find it highly insulting to be called antisematic

          • Muninwing

            don’t be surprised. this is par for his course. i swear he gets his thrills picking pointless fights over minutiae…

          • Roughneck

            Can’t help it that I know alittle more than others and when I get jumped on for disagreeing When I know I’m right.

          • Muninwing

            yeah… if everyone is jumping on you, then maybe you’re *not* right? or at least not communicating what you are trying to say in such a way that is functional?

            this is a geek hobby. most of the people who are here are geeky. often, that means we are well-read, able to do our research, and well-schooled in intellectual matters. sure, not everyone. but enough. and many of us were the smartest people in our respective environments, grew up as outsiders due to our intellect and our love of things that “smart people” are into.

            trying to be top-dog, when you might very well not be one, only makes us hear derision and antagonism when you start strutting.

            i’m writing this from a grad class. we’re using Lacan’s theories to analyze Eliot (Prufrock). i’m contributing to that discussion while juggling comments with you. i don’t care if you have a petulant need to feel like you’re smarter than others because of some sort of childhood damage — you’re having a hard time keeping up with your own logic. but we don’t care if you’re the smartest, either… it’s not an identity that we particularly are invested in. most of us here are old enough to have gotten over that childish need.

            roll with it. if someone doesn’t understand what you mean, rephrase it. don’t attack others for the very same guessing that you’re doing with the limited information. you don’t need to be the authority, especially in a (metaphorical) room full of those who are at the same level of authority as you…

          • Roughneck

            Ever thought I work closely in the industry and hence get to peak behind the curtain more than most.
            I got jumped on for pointing out a incorrect statement that is disproved by the pictures in the very article, which I believe you commented on with the stat line?
            Ever thought the fact that this is entertainment, and I like to be challenged with what I and others say?
            I could Big up my own education but that seems alittle petulant in this as it’s always being book smart has nothing to actually do with this at all.
            Since the two people I’ve agreed with actually played Necromunda they have authority but people trying to disagree about a game they have never played is kind of folly. That would be like me trying to tell you how to participate in your class when I don’t know a lot about it or you trying to tell Tom Brady how to win a Super Bowl.
            Also you’ll find again I didn’t start out this way and did agree with people at first but say this is written wrong and got jumped over.
            As they say it takes two to tango

          • Xodis

            OMG Is this Tweedle’s new account!!!!! We have all been trolled hahahahaha

          • Muninwing

            it might take two to tango, but it only takes one to stand on a streetcorner and scream nonsense at people.

            if you are continually in situations that escalate, and you are always getting into verbal scuffles… what’s the common element? it’s you.

            and no, since you only come out with grandiose statements without real support, it’s hard to believe that you’re the industry insider that you like to hint that you are.

            and i wasn’t trying to brag or impress with the gradschool comment — merely trying to show you what level you are on. there’s plenty of others that post here regularly who are at the same level or higher, and many who have been involved in the relevant hobbies for decades. condescension just makes people not take you seriously.

          • Roughneck

            Actually me and zee had a discussion before and it was fine as where the three others I’ve had on here today out of 5.
            Actually I’ve been proven right on a few things quite recently. Just because I know a few things and when I say it people get upset about it doesn’t mean I have to take it just like they don’t.
            Believe me it didn’t come across that way but if that was how you meant it I can only take your word for that. Doesn’t mean I have to believe it but I will. I could say the same to you but then again that is my opinion on how you come across and as I said early opinions are like butt holes everyone has them and not everyone has to like them.
            Difference is I don’t get preachy about it or care that much to argue about it. If someone tried to bait me and I know I can do it in return why not?
            I understand your point but just because I do doesn’t mean to me your not coming across the same but opinions are subjective.
            Problem is people don’t like it when you disagree and take it personally and I feel sorry for people like that. You could argue with me till your blue in the face and 5 seconds later I’d be fine as who really cares apart from socially awkward people who can’t take it.

          • Muninwing

            so what you’re saying is either:

            a) you think very highly of yourself and low of others — which is the very definition of arrogance, and which is the tone with which you approach every conversation

            b) you have connections that you desperately want respect for, real or imaginary, and somehow think we owe it to you

            or
            c) you’re just trolling for the lulz, and like to strut into a reasonable conversation and pick fights… or have such bad communication skills that you are unaware of doing so intentionally — which, really, have the same result.

            “when i know i’m right,” given how often you actually change your point or argument really just points toward you having a tragic sense of unearned and undeserved self-importance. communicating with other people about a common topic of interest is all about leaving that inflated pomp at the door.

    • carlisimo

      lol, this whole thread consists of Roughneck needing to be right, no matter by how small a measure.

      The core concepts may be similar, but normal people would not say that the rules and stats are shared with 40k if you can’t use the current 40k rulebook to correctly play this game. Initiative, for example, is likely to be thoroughly different despite sharing a name with its 40k equivalent; in the older rules, close combat was simultaneous. The presence of the movement stat suggests that we’ll be going back to those old rules.

      That actually bothers me a little bit, though. I find that tabletop games usually work better with higher movement rates, otherwise deployment is too important to the battle’s outcome.

      • Roughneck

        To be honest it started with a sarcastic remark about how an article was worded.
        And the fact I’ve played classic necromunda and know that it does incorporate a fair chunk of 40k rules.
        I’d agree with your second point if it was said that way but it wasn’t, as I said I criticised how it was written as none of us know how the author intended it.

      • memitchell

        Remember, models can run in Necromunda (up to double move, but not fire). Charge distance is also double move distance.

        • captkaruthors

          Yup. You also couldn’t perform a run move within a certain distance of the enemy I think.

      • captkaruthors

        If the rules are a direct port from Necromunda, you can run in the movement phase which doubles your movement. So a 4″ move is an 8″ run. That makes races like Tyranids and Eldar faster. Their base movement was better than a humans or ork. It was cleaner than the dumb fleet move they have now.

    • ThorOdinson

      Except they don’t work the same. That’s like saying that because current 40k has a rule called “Overwatch”, it’s exactly like 2nd edition Overwatch. It’s not. At all. Likewise, 2nd edition and Necromunda use many of the same stats, but they work differently in many different ways. For instance, WS is added to your Attack dice to get a result. It didn’t determine whether hit on a 3+, 4+, or 5+. BS can be modified by cover, which doesn’t offer a saving throw in lieu of armor. Initiative didn’t work the same, either. And current 40k doesn’t even have the Movement stat.

      A lot of the NAMES are retained, but the way they work, in almost every instance, is very different.

      • Roughneck

        He’s the thing while that is correct to a degree. It is still the core mechanics of 40k
        Two we don’t know if overwatch will be in this or not. We also don’t know how the combat phase will work. We don’t know how any of the rules will work and I haven’t said how they will I’ve just said they will use the core mechanics of 40k as every 40k game does.
        I agree necromunda was set in second ed and it worked differently, I never said otherwise, it would be folly to think it hasn’t been adapted to 7th.
        Also it does use 40k stats that’s my point to say it uses none of the rules and stats which the article states is wrong and was my original point till I got jumped over for saying it. So you are right and you are wrong to a degree.

  • “Rules will be almost identical to the original.”
    So to compete against the likes of Guild Ball, Malifaux, Infinity, and other quality skirmish games, GW is releasing a 20 plus year old rule set. Sounds totally legit and not at all like a nostalgia money grab.

    • Jimi Steele

      And yet there are legions of people demanding its return. There’s people on both sides.

      • ZeeLobby

        I think most people who did pine for Necromunda wanted the gangs/fluff back though with it.

        • Graham Bartram

          ZeeLobby sees the truth.

        • Commissar Molotov

          If it really is the old rules-set, then we’ve already got the gang rules, eh?

          • ZeeLobby

            True. But people wanted a reboot. Some fresh awesome looking ganger minis. Some updated story lines about hive life, etc. A new perspective on the current 40K timeline. The grungy underside of Imperial society, etc. Not Space Marines vs Orks in a city. Sure some players of the original brought other factions in with custom rules, but no group I know who still play (of which i know several) are all that excited about this, especially if it’s just a reprint of the rules they’re already using.

          • Roughneck

            Zee I must be going mad as I agree with you here.
            I don’t think this is necromunda, I’d bet it’s the replacement to Kill Team which is now direct only.
            Andy Smilie said it’s an espionage game in his interviews.
            If this sells well I bet necromunda will be back.

          • ZeeLobby

            I hope so. I mean these will likely sell just for the terrain pieces. I imagine there will be a MASSIVE influx of scouts and ork boyz on eBay shortly after this release, haha.

          • Roughneck

            Also heard a rumour that lost patrol is now OOP so this is most likely it’s replacement.
            Too much of Andy Smilie mentioning Necromunda has been linked to this like Shadespire is Mordheim but that’s an arena combat game. What has arena combat got to do with Mordheim and it’s make lots of money aim

          • ZeeLobby

            True. I guess the issue people have most with these games is that they aren’t what they’ve been waiting for. Especially after getting Deathwatch and GSC and other things which were EXACTLY what they were waiting for. If Mordheim or Necromunda remakes now never see the light of day because these games were released instead, I think a lot of people will be upset. Either way, I think people wanting those things are probably screwed (just guesswork). If either of these do well enough, then they have no reason to release the older game worlds, they’ll just add more to these. If either of these fail, it’ll be a sign that maybe they shouldn’t re-release the older games.

            What Mordheim and Necromunda offered was something completely different to their core games. They were set in previously undefined and poorly detailed sub-worlds of the overall story. It was a great break, a whole new world for players to immerse themselves in. When Mordheim first dropped we stopped playing Fantasy/40K for several months as we explored the dead city. I feel like these are more like supplements to the core game, rather than standalone games themselves, which imo is a shame. It means they’ll fall into the Death from the Skis, Kill Team, etc. category where you may play every once in a while, but most times you just decide to play a regular game instead.

          • Roughneck

            I can agree and I loved necromunda and Mordheim and we still play them both regularly.
            As for necromunda we brought it inline with seventh by following design studios and Jarvis johnsons advise and just add the campaign system from necromunda to 7ths rules which as well all know necromunda was exactly the same but with 2nds rule set( sorry if people don’t want to hear that but it’s what it was)
            Personally I’d like GorkaMorka back aswell.
            I hope both sell well and lead to bigger things as I know Andy Hoare was keen for all the specialist games to comeback and to have them all interlink to 40k etc for campaigns.
            I also think a lot of the articles here have been clutching st straws due to the leaks drying up because of the community page, so they need to try and get the views and discussions going to bring people here now.

        • Iconoc1ast

          I dug out my old book.
          It isnt my original one but it will suffice.

          My hardback version got a lot of abuse.
          My dog actually thought it looked tasty and ate half of it…

          It was a sad day retiring that as it had outlanders in it as well. This version only has the core rules and the goliath and orlock gangs were replaced with the crappy 2nd ed models.

          That said. I know i have an unhealthy obsession with necromunda and was miffed at the initial news of shadow war, i am really excited about its release. http://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e137817793a1b32b31a9299588fdace2260eea957de1bc07c62d12e210667221.jpg

      • I have no doubts it will sell well. I just have doubts that it will sell to people not already playing 40k. Picking the outdated Scouts to be in the starter doesn’t bode well for grabbing the attention of new players.

        • Jimi Steele

          I can absolutely agree with that. It’s a poor choice to use the models they selected, I think there are dozens of kits more suited for it. I can also sympathize with the folks who wanted the return of the Gang models. That said, I wouldn’t rule out their possible return.

    • ZeeLobby

      Take new models (the more currently underselling the better). Smear with old nostalgia. Profit?

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    • Valegorn

      Not everything GW makes is to get new people into the hobby. They do make stuff for us old geezers now and then, and that’s completely ok. No need to be sour.

      • Not really sour so much as indifferent to GW’s nostalgia plays. I started gaming later in life. If the rules from 20 years ago are really that good, it makes me wonder how GW got so far of track.

        • Valegorn

          My mistake, fair enough. Its not so much that the rules from back then were way better, just different. I think the current rules evolution is mainly to do with a combination of making new stuff work, streamlining it for larger games (model wise), and fiddling with different ways to do the same thing.

          Most any of the rulesets are completely playable, and extremely enjoyable (they kinda had to be in order to keep 40k alive). Necromunda came about during 2nd/3rd and it worked very well. It was a really cool niche game that had a ton of stuff going for it (which can be said for almost all of GW specialist games). Problem was, it’s hard to compete with 40k. So the only people who really played them were the guys who played both 40k AND the specialist game. If you entered the hobby with Necromunda, it wasn’t long before you were playing more 40k simply because with 40k the skies the limit, the other games tend to cap out, that and there were always more people who seemed to be playing 40k, so it’s only natural you’d swap over.

          I can understand how it could be seen as a money grab for GW to revisit the old games, but they’re not really putting that much effort into it, and like Blood Bowl, it’ll give us something new until the next time they think about doing something with them again.

    • Admiral Raptor

      It’s a classic GW cash grab move, but not a bad one. Necromunda had a good rule set so a ground up rebuild probably wouldn’t have improved the game much. I’m a little butthurt that they moved from gangs to the regular 40k races, but it does mean I don’t have to buy anything to play this new game.

    • Old zogwort

      Pfft feel free to call it a money grab. Me and all the inq 28 guys are going to have a blast with the rest of the community : D

      • I was hoping for more, but as I said in another comment, I didn’t play the original. I’m the odd person who doesn’t hate GW, but also isn’t a fan. I was hoping GW would go all in with new gang minis and really try to compete with newer skirmish games. Instead they dug something out of their closet and called it a day. You could call it a bone thrown to longtime fans instead of a cash grab, but to me it feels a bit lazy.

  • Err I thought in the GW video it said rules for 12 factions come in the box. Plus thats clearly a pic of printed Genestealer cult rules at the bottom and in another pic I’ve seen on BoLS there was printed Skitarii & Dark Eldar rules.

    • EnTyme

      It’s easy enough to print off rules you find online.

    • Xodis

      Probably part of the Organized Play Kit to help drive interest. I would buy a Chaos/ShadowWars codex myself, but free PDFs will really go a long way in getting people to dip their toes in the new water.

  • Xodis

    “…Rules on the Website.” The best piece of information to sell this.

  • memitchell

    We’ve been told it uses Necromunda’s rules (that is 40K Second Edition modified to fit small skirmish combat, and a campaign). We’ve been told that system changes, if any, are so slight a Necromunda gang would slot right in. We’ve seen what looks to be a gang roster sheet (or playtest aid?) that does not make room for stat increases or additional weapons. But, has check boxes for “missions.” It wasn’t designed for erasing old entries as they change, but, It could be this player prints up a new roster after each game? The only gang rules we’ve seen are for the Genestealer Cult. Only three entries. We don’t see Juves, or their equivalent. That leaves open the question what ganger progression (it any) will look like. The promo cars show “specialists.” They are “Hired Guns.” In Necromunda, Hired Guns were added to gangs, but did not advance with experience. With no proof of ganger advancement yet, that leaves open what a campaign will look like. Will it be full-frontal like Necromunda’s, or simple and slight like Gangs of Commorragh? That leaves a lot unknown.

    Finally, although the setting is the Third battle of Armageddon in Archeron Hive, the game is not confined to that battle’s opponents. No doubt the setting can be manipulated to allow for 12 diverse factions from everywhere in the Galaxy (or, whatever). Again, the skill tables that accommodate both Termagants and Immortals will be interesting, indeed. But, this points to a generic game like 40k (or Blood Bowl). Rather than a specific game like Necromunda.

  • Admiral Raptor

    It’s got potential. If it sticks close to the original Necromunda it should be a lot of fun. I just really wish it had stayed a game of gang warfare. The underhive was an amazing setting.

  • memitchell

    Oh, and the driving force behind it all is probably the terrain.

  • Muninwing

    “The game does NOT use the 40K rules, stats, etc at all.”

    cards: show statline

    ???

  • Marky

    Doesn’t look like necromunda to me. Looks like a better version of kill team.

    Was looking forward to some gang war… but I was more excited by the early info on the Re release of bloodbowl… might not even buy this!

    • Haighus

      I think it is basically Kill Team with Necromunda rules.

  • d316lev

    how do you find out what stores are participating?

  • This Dave

    Well drat. I got excited when I heard about the Deathwatch guy as I was hoping to be able to use a Kill Team in the game. This sounds like exactly what a DKT would be doing after all.

  • Hell-Nico

    Well it suck that we loose Necromunda background, but if we can gain in exchange a game that can use most of the standard 40k factions and figs I think it’s net gain.

    I imagine we’ll see the genestealer cult in here.

    • Solaq

      The factions at launch are:

      Space Marines
      Imperial Guard
      Orks

      Tau
      Skitarii
      Necrons
      Eldar
      Dark Eldar
      Chaos Space Marines
      Genestealer Cults
      Grey Knights
      Tyranids
      Harlequins

      • Hell-Nico

        Grey Knights ?
        What ? How will they fit in the middle of battle between some scouts and orks ?

        Anyway, that’s a way sexier roster than the old gang from necromunda, and it will be way easier to get figs.

        • Solaq

          They don’t. The first three are the thematic factions for games set during the Third War for Armageddon. The others are just to open it up to more players/models (their rules aren’t even in the rulebook).

          • Hell-Nico

            Wait… the other faction don’t have rules ?
            So… how are you supposed to play them ?