40K BREAKING: The Primaris Space Marine Unveiled

Don’t call them “True Scale” – Games Workshop introduces a brand new breed of Super-Super-Human!

After months of rumor, speculation, and some WIP screenshots, the truth is finally here direct from Games Workshop: The Primaris Space Marines have been announced!

via Warhammer Community

The Primaris Space Marine is a new breed of hero for this, the darkest age in the Imperium’s history. These new warriors are the next step in the evolution of the Emperor’s Angels of Death – genetically altered from their brethren to be bigger, stronger and faster – timely reinforcements to the Imperium’s armies as their enemies close in for the kill.

To aid them in battle, these new gene-forged warriors are equipped with new arms and armour forged on holy Mars itself.

These new Marines will come standard with the latest Mk. X Armor and the new Cawl-Pattern Bolter Rifle. The stats on the new weapon have also been revealed:

Range 30, Strength 4, AP -1 and Rapid Fire

Read the Full Article HERE

However, not all the Imperium is excited about this. While most of the chapters that were devastated in the events leading up to their uh…announcement (see Fall of Cadia) have welcomed the new reinforcements, some are suspicions of these new warriors. Some even worry about the long term effects of their respective Primarch’s Geneseed could have on these new warriors:

“Though they are a step removed from their brothers, the Primaris Space Marines still bear the gene-seed of their Primarchs, and some dissenting voices worry how this new type of warrior will react with the known genetic quirks and flaws of some of the more unusual Chapters…”

 

Now, I know folks have a LOT of questions. Well GW expected as much and they have put together an FAQ as well.

Read the FAQ for the Primaris Marines HERE

Are all my current Space Marine miniatures redundant now?

No way! Primaris Space Marines do not replace regular (if a superhuman killing machine can be described as ‘regular’) Space Marines. These guys have a few extra genetic enhancements, thanks to Belisarius Cawl, and serve as additional reinforcements in the Adeptus Astartes arsenal, not replacements.

Will there be multiple types of Primaris Space Marines?

You bet. So far you’ve seen the Intercessors, the line infantry clad in Mk X armour, but there are plenty more on the way. And likely vehicles too…

I have an <insert favourite Chapter> army. Can I field Primaris Space Marines?

Any of the galaxy’s many hundreds of Codex Chapters can use Primaris Space Marines, along with many of the less Codex-compliant ones like Dark Angels, Blood Angels and Space Wolves.

But I play Chaos! Where are my super-super-human reinforcements?

First off, that’ll teach you for turning your back on the Emperor. Secondly, did you not see the Death Guard teaser video? The Chaos Gods have not been idle – we guarantee there are some warp-charged hulking warriors on their way for you guys in the not too distant future.

There are many, many more good questions and answers at the FAQ – as well as some teasers (Primaris Dreadnought, yes please) so go read them for yourself!

 

How do you feel about these new Super-Super-Humans? Will you be adding a squad or ten to your Space Marine army?

  • CthulhuDawg

    Lame. Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo lame.

    • Seienchin

      I would rather say its absurd… Completely strange and anticlimactic… What?

    • Muninwing

      genetically engineered super-soldiers weren’t enough — they needed to be geneticallyer engineered superer soldiers!

      • KingAceNumber1

        Even soldierier than last time!

        • euansmith

          More geneticier too

          • Moik

            TWICE AS MANY CHROMOSOMES

      • Karru

        Now all we need is some genetically engineer regular soldiers! You know, something that wears Power Armour but isn’t really a Space Marine, but still looks like one.

      • georgelabour

        Sort of worked for Halo…

        They couldn’t make enough ‘real’ super soldiers so they made a different kind that was easier to mass produce, Got newer gear, and who are arguably better in some ways.

        • Muninwing

          that’s almost believable in its direction. almost like armor marks when it got to the Crusade pattern, which was debatably inferior product cobbled together from extras to fit need.

          in a game whose principle convictions are that technology is not only in decline but has been for thousands of years, a sudden jump forward is… incongruent.

          • georgelabour

            To be fair there are improvements in technology. There are even more horizontal shifts using existing pices to create slightly better gear.

            MK 8 power armor is in fact superior to several marks behind it, but was made post heresy. Several patterns of las gun are far far better than the cadian or mars pattern but are simply to expensive or only produced on one forge world. Etc.

            The Stormraven had been ready for over a millenia before it was given to the Blood Angels and Grey Knights for beta testing. Once they’d shown it was free of ‘techno-heresy’ full production had it going everywhere within decade.

            The Mechanicus has also been tinkering with the gene seed for a while. the 21st founding was the most noted one but they’ve done other less noted work according to the fluff.

            Mow we have Mars’s Gene Seed Banks, The seat of Both Mechanicus, and Administratum right next to on eanother, AND a guy who was put to work by GUilliman himself for 10,000 years all in the same place. So It’s a concentration of pretty much the best of everything required.

            Then Guilliman shows up in the armor Cawl made (as a precursor to the MKX it seems) and does to Imperial red tape What Alexander did to the gordian knot. With the emperor’s flaming sword no less.

            So while I’m not really digging Primaris marines I can see where all the puzzle pieces fit.

          • Moik

            I hate to be a dink, but ‘horizontal shifts to create better gear’ is how technological improvements work usually. There’s no such thing as an original idea.

      • Moik

        Double marines. Double stuffed?

    • Stephen James Hand

      Super space marines! What a refreshing concept! Well, as long as we don’t count Grey Knights or Adeptus Custodes or first company veterans or Thunder Warriors or… Geez, I bet poor old regular ‘Joe Astartes’ has a raging inferiority complex at this point.

    • Imo GW should simply have said: “Guys, we’re going to make Space Marines better and bigger as we think that better reflects the fluff ingame”. That’s what many SM-players have been asking for anyway for a long time. And it would have been more honest and less crippling for the fluff.

      • Talos2

        They effectively did, just they’ve done it in an overly pc way so that they don’t upset people that have just bought a load of regular marines that are now out of date. I’m guessing,in time, they will replace if they go well. I’m betting a lot of people will replace their marines even though they dont need too. It’s an interesting dilemma for heresy era players as I’d bet a large amount of those are the guys that really want true scale marines but can’t have them as it’s not heresy era armour.

        • Xodis

          Ya, we wont see Heresy era armors in Primaris size until the mini-marines all written out of the fluff lol

          • Talos2

            Also means we can’t get away with using our resin primarch in 40k as he won’t look big enough next to the marines so we’ll have to buy the plastic version too

          • Xodis

            Really? I thought the Primarchs were big enough already that even at Truscale it would look fine.

          • Talos2

            Yeah maybe. Guilleman is a little smaller and Magnus Is very much smaller though than the plastic versions but I’m just being mischievous about money motives lol

          • Xodis

            Oh no need to justify there lol. Money motives ALWAYS matter in this hobby.

  • Raven Jax

    So…what happened to Mark 9 armor?

    Also, I kinda don’t like the helmets. Hopefully there are modeling options to use Mark 6/7/8 helmets.

    • ImmortalStrain .

      They did say in the FAQ the heads and Shoulders are compatible with current marines.

    • Geko747

      Its probably on the ‘normal Marines’ New guys get X the old guys get IX. Just be a few years before we see any models.

    • Goatsplitter

      The reason there will be no Mark 9 is due to a flaw that was recently discovered by the programmers. Anytime the system attempted to reference ‘Mark 9’ it defaulted to some old legacy code mistakenly referencing the old Power Armor Mark ’95. Since the tech priests were neck deep in crunch, they decided a simple rename was best.

      • ZeeLobby

        Lol. Great reference.

      • KingAceNumber1

        A+

        The real question is whether the Mk10 armor HUD will have a small Martial watermark in the bottom right corner asking you to register it at all times

        • Goatsplitter

          Brother Marine…

          …Would you like to review your privacy settings?

          Click Here for ‘Yes’

          Click Here for ‘Annoy Me Again & Again & Again Later With This’

          • KingAceNumber1

            I can see it now, Marines freezing in their tracks across multiple worlds as the system update they forgot they scheduled 12 hours ago kicks in and reboots their armor in the middle of a pitched battle.

      • Severius_Tolluck

        LMAO as a programmer that raised my hackles lol!

      • euansmith

        Wasn’t there Power Armour Vista too?

    • Evil Otto

      Mark IX power armor is still downloading updates. It will be done in 27 years.

      “Downloading update 56,996 of 977,452,300. Thank you for your patience. Please do not turn off your power armor until this process is completed.”

    • KingAceNumber1

      The same thing that happened to the 4th sphere expansion, I guess.

      That is to say, something something warp.

  • Christopher2004

    so what is Mk iX armour then?

    • Sam Nolton

      Isn’t MK IX Maximus Armor? With the neck-shield gorget?

      • SWISSchris

        Mk viii errant has the neck shield.

  • mgdavey

    Ugh!

  • phobosftw

    For everyone hating on the whole numarine thing, how about just using the standard sm rules with the new models and viola – truescale marines ftw..?

    • LEGION3000

      Give it a year and Numarine will be the Onlymarine as the old marines are wiped out as “casualties” in the war. And guess what? if these follow Sigmarines a box of 5 is going to be a whopping $50-60. What a bargain!

      • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

        I fear you may be right. I remember the first rumour about a year ago about these abominations said that GW would make them so much better that people would feel pressure to upgrade their collections. Its kind of a way to invalidate old collections and reduce the competition for buyers provided by their own old merchandise’s afterlife on ebay

        • euansmith

          The Shoulder Pads and Heads are the same size as the old kits, and they are a substantial part of the after-sales market. Maybe GW missed a trick in not making them a little bit bigger?

          • Xodis

            Hopefully that was part of the “good faith” agreement as they slowly replace everything else and hope leaving shoulders and heads will keep the fans from rampaging too much lol

      • Munn

        They reboxed them and now that’s what 10 cost.

    • mwnciboo

      That’s what they are doing, it’s a soft launch so as to not alienate the tens of thousands of us with normal space marines….10 years time, it will be all 32mm and the old neck beards will say “I remember when it was 28mm scale, bring back the good old days”.

  • Horus84cmd

    Phew! Glad these new Primaris Space Marine aren’t the “true scale” marines that the rumour-mongers were peddling.

    Personally I like them. The background ok-ish. The Mk10 armour is a solid design. The Bolt-Rifles are awesome.

    Interesting stuff

    • ZeeLobby

      Well they had to leave room to upsell the primer primaris space marines in 9th edition 😀

      • Vachones

        Probably the same models with a cape added.

        • KingAceNumber1

          Don’t be so cynical, I’m sure that the backpack will be slightly different too.

          • ZeeLobby

            Well, and they’ll be a head taller. That’s when they’ll move to 6×8 as the standard table size (with the new at-MSRP 12-tile realm of battle bundle).

          • KingAceNumber1

            Inb4 the 150 dollar space marine statue on FW becomes the standard space marine in 9th

          • LOL. You forgot the best thing though, GW is going to intruduce a new measurement. Not metric-system, not inches. Lets call them Wards. Numarines walk 8 wards and shoot 30 wards far. The new battle board will be 72 wards by 96 wards. And the best thing about it? GW will offer new measuring tapes! 120 wards long for only $35! What an offer!

          • ZeeLobby

            Hahaha. I bet Ward pitched it.

          • euansmith
          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            they’ll shift the whole game to 54mm scale and these models will become the new Squats.

        • Wampasaurus
    • euansmith

      I’m like the unfussy design of the MkX armour. It looks like it will be a doddle to paint, while leaving loads of flat areas for people with the inclination and hand to eye coordination to indulge in freehand work.

  • petrow84

    I sense a great disturbance in the force. As if millions of tru-scale marine converting hobbyists were screaming… and then, silence…

    • Raven Jax

      I’ve got a stupid question: What’s not true-scale about them? I seem to be missing something obvious everyone else is seeing. They look correctly proportional to me.

      • Severius_Tolluck

        If you look at the art, and then look at the models, some features are exaggerated or too bulky. Plus the marines are scaled in height to all other models. So a guardsmen model is roughly as tall as a marine. A marine should be at minimum about 8 feet tall. Average guardsmen should be 5.5 feet tall. so.. if a guardsmen is 1 inch tall. A Marine should be like 1.3 inches tall etc etc…

        • Crevab

          It’s largely the Guardsmen that are too big. At 8ft, the Necrons a a bit taller than your average 7ft marine and a hunched Ork is a lil shorter.
          But going from metal to plastic, Cadians gained a handspan and marines have been getting taller plastics since

          • Severius_Tolluck

            True, but they are modeled that way as an analog, same with vehicles. They are set to a scale, not to a scale to one another. Which is why people make true scale conversions, to make the marines more imposing. Which is easier then making your guardsmen smaller.

        • Nwttp

          Why would a gardsman be an average of 5.5? That’s significantly less than world average now, and they say we keep getting taller.

          • Severius_Tolluck

            When you speak of billions, that have much larger extremes the average is gonna fall somewhere in the middle. I was throwing a much closer number to avg human height then a super genetic creature that in old fluff stood at 9 feet tall with armor on or greater.

          • twincast

            Well, make it 50:50 male:female guardsmen and the overall average would about fit.

      • petrow84

        Actually, nothing for me. If I wanted to play with less chunky figures, I would choose another system.

        • euansmith

          GW has pretty much ruined me as far as minis go. If minis are not chunky monkey heroic scale I feel short changed. Even some 32mm minis, because their realistic proportions look weedy by comparison.

          • twincast

            😂😂😂

  • I’m excited!

    • Sam Nolton

      Finally, someone else who is XD me too! I really like the look of these, and I think they fit well into the lore.

      • The look yes. But nothing else imo.

        • SWISSchris

          If GW just wanted to do marine replacements, a new mk, the should have done exactly than. None of this primaris, 2 tier marine system.

      • Karru

        Yes, I too think that it is completely fitting in the lore to see an Adeptus Mechanicus dude basically one-up the Emperor. Yep, fits right in.

        • Sam Nolton

          The Mechanicus are absurdly proud, arrogant, and borderline god-complex when it comes to their mastery of technology. You forget that they are allies of the Imperium through a treaty, not because they believe in or worship the emperor.

          It makes perfect sense for Crawl, who is over 10,000 years old, to develop a new breed of Astartes as a contingency plan, or even in a secretive plot to one day replace the Emperor’s Astartes with ones loyal to himself and the ad mech.

          • Thomas

            “not because they believe in or worship the emperor.”

            Except for the fact that they worship the Emperor as the Omnissiah.

          • Sam Nolton

            No, they grudgingly accept that the Emperor MIGHT be considered an aspect of the Omissiah, to appease the Imperium and prevent war. They do not, in any way, truly believe in or care for the Ecclesiarchy’s God-Emperor.

          • Karru

            It. Literally. Removes. The. Entire. Core. Of. The. F’ing. Lore.

            The core of the problem with Imperium ever since the Emperor fell was their waning technology and the resources the dilemma regarding their defences. Imperium is massive and they have enough resources and manpower to keep their enemies at bay. The only thing keeping them from becoming the “true masters of the galaxy” was their idiotic worshipping of the Emperor.

            Adeptus Mechanicus considers it heresy to invent anything and the largest of any crime within the Imperium is the copying of the Emperor’s Design, the Space Marines.

            Guess what Cawl did and “magically” got away with?

            It is basically another BS explanation for GW to bring in more Space Marines. “Look guys, the galaxy is in great peril and Abaddon accomplished his grand plan! Surely the Imperium is in its last gasp!”

            “Wait… False alarm, Mister 10.000 Years Old just popped a massive army of new generation Space Marines equipped with new technology. Don’t worry guys, Chaos will return one day!”

          • ZeeLobby

            LoL. Thank you! I just can’t comprehend those who think this is suddenly a great development, lol.

          • KingAceNumber1

            AdMech isn’t a single united faction. There are many, many sub-houses inside the AM organization, and not all of them are averse to progress. You are correct that for a long time the most influential houses held progress back, but Cawl has spent a lot of time and effort taking those dissenters out of the equation so that the Imperium can move forward.

            You’re right, it WAS considered heresy to copy Marines, back when the Emperor was widely considered deific. Guilliman doesn’t worship his father as a god, nor does Cawl, and they are the two most politically powerful members of the Imperiam+AM ruling body. Who’s gonna stop them?

          • Karru

            This minor little faction that holds extremely little power within the Imperium called Ecclesiarchy.

            I don’t know if you have ever heard of them, they don’t come up that often in the lore. To give you a small summary, they are the organisation within the Imperium in charge of the Spiritual side of the Imperium. They are the religious side, which makes sure that Imperium worships the Emperor as a god. They have massive armies at their command. They also happen to be the ones in charge of schooling the citizens of the Imperium.

          • Xodis

            Yes, but are they willing to go toe to toe with the son of their god who commands the greatest military might the Imperium has? Especially right now with literally everything else at their doorstep trying to eat them?

          • Karru

            Yes, if the writers would remain faithful to the old lore.

            Considering that the Ecclesiarchy is aware of who Horus was, they would consider both Guilliman AND Cawl a threat to the Imperium. They are both doing something that is against everything THEY believe is to be grand heresy.

            For Ecclesiarchy, only purging the Heresy is what matters. Their Fate in the Message of the Emperor is strong. The idea is that the Ecclesiarchy isn’t smart and they are willing to go to any lengths to make sure heresy doesn’t spread. This includes the willingness to go to war against Guilliman and Cawl and their heretical ways.

          • Xodis

            Which is probably why we will have a Civil War storyline. They even hinted at it in the FaQ.

          • Severius_Tolluck

            As well as in Gathering Storm 3, where Robute was not happy how things were, and others were not happy he was back.. like the Lords of Terra.. Those same lords who are the only ones who can authorize major assassins to be set in active service…

          • KingAceNumber1

            The other thing is the Celestine, arguably the most influential member of the Ecclesiarchy currently living, has thrown in with Cawl pretty much wholeheartedly. Doesn’t leave a lot of room for the rest of the priesthood to argue.

          • euansmith

            “Who’s that knocking the front door?”

            “It’s Arthur O’Pod from down the street. He want’s to know if we accept the Four Armed God as our personal saviour.”

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            and they are equipped with New MKX Plot Armour, tougher than ceramite!

            In effect, as you say, they have taken the whole ‘grim’ bit of grimdark and replaced it with what, hope? Positivity? Hopedark? Does that work?

            Utterly awful.

            If anyone wants me I’ll be painting WWII Soviets. The Soviets knew how to do Grimdark properly…

          • Drpx

            The whole Guilliman Returns thing is an effort to subtly update the fluff to 2010s expectations.

          • Muninwing

            “update”

            as in…

            “we don’t have our own good ideas anymore, let’s see what other companies are doing and copy it, even if it’s inferior”

            for a company that was well-established as the leader in immersive, deep, rich backgrounds and world-building, they have no need to copy the “there are only a few people in the world that matter” bad writing of games like Warmachine.

          • David Leimbach

            Not only this, but with the technology needed to develop new technology and the scientific method lost and replaced by superstition, this shouldn’t be possible. You don’t go from chanting before pressing the on button to building the next level of power armor.
            If you can make a new suit of armor, then you’d have to know all the science behind the old armor too.

          • Sam Nolton

            You realize there are new foundings of space marines all the time, right? The ability to create Astartes has never been lost. There were dozens of foundings based on chapter gene-seed from the Heresy and continued well into the 41st millenium.

            Mechanicus continue to take tithes of gene seed from chapters to assess their purity, and in some instances have tried to improve on the Astartes genetic template via projects like the 21st Founding (the Cursed Founding). They sought to improve the Astartes template, and made some mistakes. That was in the 36th millenium and new foundings have continued up to and including the 41st millenium.

            It is 100% lore-friendly and within the mechanicus’ power to create a new space marine such as these Primaris, and while “invention” may be forbidden for most mechanicus priests, there are MANY different sects who have different viewpoints, and Crawl being 10,000 years+ old and a senior member on Mars would be able to dictate doctrine and do as he pleases.

            As for the worship of the Emperor, if you’d read the Gathering Storm, Gulliman DESPISES that the Emperor became worshipped against his well, but also knows full well that the ecclesiarchy and imperial cult is holding humanity together, so he grudgingly accepts it.

          • KingAceNumber1

            This. Pre-heresy, the Emperor had to negotiate some sticky territory to get the Mechanicum involved in the great crusade. They are functionally a separate entity from the Imperium entirely, bound by trade agreements and alliances. They’re the only human-based civilization that’s allowed to exist outside the Imperium, and are not held back by its aversion to progress. Certain parts of AdMech are definitely mired in the “perfection” of dark age tech, but there are just as many houses and factions within AdMech as within the Imperium and many of them believe in advancement and progress.

          • Karru

            Yes, Imperium and Adeptus Mechanicus actually has a name for these people that “would like to advance the technology they have”.

            Heretech.

            It is heresy within the Priesthood of Mars to modify or “advance” any pre-existing technology. That has always been one of the core lore reasons why Imperium is in this very strange situation where they have massive resources and manpower, but the technology they use is very ancient considering how old the Imperium is. There is a good reason why Imperium has gone to s*it in the past 10.000 years.

          • KingAceNumber1

            One man’s tech-heresy is another man’s Primaris marine. Who’s gonna argue with Cawl and Guilliman? Legit question, I would actually really like to see some resistance to the Primaris gene step forward.

          • Xodis

            “There is a good reason why Imperium has gone to s*it in the past 10.000 years.”
            Also makes sense that in order to survive that would have to change that. If Guilliman didn’t give the ok, this would all be purged in cleansing flame, but the new boss says its cool so now we will have 2 Imperiums, those who follow the old ways and those who conform.

          • Karru

            Which would have been an interesting plot point but we all know that GW doesn’t do these things when it comes to lore.

            A smart man would have made the entire core of 8th edition about another “Civil War” raging within the galaxy. Imperium split in two, with the Guilliman led new Imperium on one side and the Ecclesiarchy led Old Imperium on the other. During this time, Abaddon would have ravaged across the galaxy tormenting both, biding his time until the defences of Terra were weak enough for his invasion.

            This won’t happen because GW wants the whole Imperium as one happy family, because sales.

          • Xodis

            It very well could be, we haven’t seen anything yet, now you are just making assumptions.
            GW still has some excellent writers on staff, and this could have been in the works for years already.

          • Karru

            Judging from their most recent stuff they’ve released, I tend to disagree about the “excellent writes” comment.

          • Xodis

            And thats your prerogative, ADB, Gav Thorpe, and John French are still around, so I disagree.

          • Severius_Tolluck

            They did re hire Ward shortly before we saw the Gathering storms books hit shelves so… yeah.. that is where these ultra ultramarines probably came…

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            *chokes on tea*

          • euansmith
          • Fergie0044

            A shame I can only upvote this once

          • Severius_Tolluck

            Bless you sir.

          • So which Primarch is going to come back and challenge Guilliman? As cool as a split would be, I don’t buy it. I think this is cover for a slow phasing of marine models. I don’t really think this is a horrible thing. It had to be done somehow. I’m a little miffed that they haven’t updated some of the remaining metal and outdated plastics before doing this, but by GW standards, this isn’t a bad rollout. The fluff for this is stupid, but it’s not like there wasn’t already some stupid in the fluff. People just need time to digest the new stupid, accept it, and move on.

          • Xodis

            Lemun Russ is my first thought.

            I think its a cover as well, but I hope its a Civil War in the making.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            hmm, shall I move onto Infinity, Warpath, Deadzone, Gates of Antares or something historical?

          • Infinity is a cruel mistress, but I like it. Seems to be more popular in some places (US Midwest, Poland, Spain) than others though. I think I remember you saying you liked larger battles, so maybe one of the smaller scale systems might be better, like Dropzone, Halo, or FoW/Team Yankee.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            true , I do like bigger battles, I am flattered you remember 🙂

            However due partly to a lack of 40K players where I now live I’ve been playing SAGA and Bolt Action lately and I have to say a slightly smaller battle can be fun too, three T34s can feel pretty powerful in BA in a way that three predators don’t in 40K, and a SAGA army costing £20 means I can try several.

            8th has me really confused. Some of the ideas I like a lot and I’ve advocated for myself for years, but some seem poor and unnecessary simplifications (though we won’t know till the full rules are in hand). Anyhow I’m glad I consciously thought to try some other games when AoS came out in case of the worst…

          • Yeah, I realized a couple years ago that it was a good idea to diversify your hobby. Fortunately there is a lot of good stuff out there now.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            As others have said, we are lucky to be living in a golden age of wargaming.

          • Andrew

            Gates of Antares looks good, especially if you like Bolt Action. Also, Konflikt ’47.

          • euansmith

            Maybe each new returning Primarch can go to Cawl and demand even bigger marines; culminating in the titan sized, “Super Mega Uber Salamandoror”.

          • amaximus167

            The Lion would be fluffy, given the events of Secundus in the HH series. The two really don’t see eye to eye.

          • SWISSchris

            You have a good understanding of the lore. Thumbs up from me!

          • Muninwing

            you ever read Anthem by that nutcase Ayn Rand?

            there’s a bit where the council (AdMech) acknowledges that they were perhaps too lenient approving the move from torches to candles, because the deliberation only took a few years. so when the narrator “invents” (in reality, discovers in a subway) the lightbulb, it is rejected as moving too fast.

            i’ve always wondered if this was the inspiration for the AdMech…

        • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

          hey what did that old Emperor guy know anyway? This fluff is sensible and in no way absurd or stupid. No siree.

        • Muninwing

          Cawl, though?

          why’d it have to be the guy who is already involved in too many various things?

          there are more than twenty main characters when there are billions of planets and many of them have billions or trillions of people on them.

          it’s stupid enough for Warmachine to have held on to their D&D setting roots and (at least in earlier editions) only really had about twenty characters involved that weren’t unnamed mooks on the national or international level.

          it’s a whole new level of ridiculous for the same few people to be involved in everything spanning across a galaxy. more when it actually takes months or years to cross a segmentum, and they appear in more than one in a short period of time while simultaneously discovering/inventing new tech…

          phoning it in. just like the AoS initial release stuff. very unprofessional.

          • euansmith

            Unless we only hear about these few guys because they are the focus of this bit of the fluff, and, really, there is loads of totally awesome stuff going on off screen? I mean, where do you think Grav Centurions really came from? 😉

          • Muninwing

            perhaps?

            i get that they’re looking for the feeling of consistency, and that a new age is built upon the shoulders of great people who do great things…

            but there are more notable and interesting “special characters” among the human armies of WWII than there are in a galaxy-wide spanning imperium? the scale is waaaaay off.

            and yeah, while we don’t know anything about which engineer at ALC that designed the final body design of the M-5, but with some military history of the US, we know who General Sherman was. so maybe it’s not Cawl’s doing? except that’s what the release says…

          • euansmith

            “Ten thousand fecking years my design office worked on that upgraded bolter, generations of us sweating every detail, and he’s got the feckin’ nerve to call it the “Cawl Pattern Bolter”!”

      • orionburn

        I think the new minis look pretty solid. The rifle is bad as hell. The rage is always entertaining when there’s nothing forcing you to buy them. There isn’t enough Preparation H for all the butt hurt.

        • Karru

          It’s mostly due to this thing called “knowing GW” that people rage about.

          For the next year or so, instead of getting updates for older models and armies, we’ll be getting more and more of these guys. On top of that, we already have Space Marines. Basically the next edition will be worse than HH when it comes to model variety.

          “So Timmy, would you like to play Space Marines, Spiky Space Marines or Larger Space Marines?”

          “I’d like to play something else! How about those Soldier looking guys?”

          “No no no… You don’t seem to understand, it is Space Marines you want, now all you have to do is pick your size!”

          • orionburn

            I understand the frustration, but Marines are always going to be their bread and butter. I don’t like the idea of having to wait until next year to see my Nids get some love. I’ll be happy enough for the time being if 8th at least makes them competitive again.

            What I’d love to see is if we do get an annual updated 40k GHB that we see a different set each year, such as Tau vs Necrons or Nids vs Orks.

          • Karru

            But you won’t be seeing that happening for the reason that is the topic of this article! Since now GW has two bread and butter factions, how much attention do you think others will be getting?

            I mean, go look at how much stuff Sigmarines got in AoS since release. Then compare it to everyone else.

            Now imagine that in 40k where they have TWO of the same thing but with different names and scales!

          • LEGION3000

            Oh don’t worry. I’m pretty positive that regular old space marines will be getting absolutely NOTHING from now until they are phased out. Congratulations oldmarine players, you now own Bretonnian space marines.

          • Drpx

            Well it’ll be proxy my old marines as numarines than my Bretonnians as Sigmarinez.

          • Not only size though, also colour!

      • amaximus167

        I love the look and rules, but hate the lore. They should have just released these as redone marines that fit the fluff. I fully understand why they didn’t, but I still don’t like that they didn’t.

    • euansmith

      +1 like for your name 😀

      • Haha – thanks! Feel free to try my youtube channel of the same name at youtube.com/c/horusheresay 😛

    • Private Skittles

      http://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/310ea7158c58a234444163d3bad09e49e86221f2d3d31c511b032a591fe38719.jpg

      I want towering primaris Dark Angels Knights! Kind of envisioning the increase detail allowing to bridge the gap between the models and drool-worthy artwork (codex or otherwise).

  • JJ

    Well at least I can use Stormcast Eternals with my space marine army now!

    • Muninwing

      sounds like you just discovered a leaking sewer pipe in your kitchen and are saying “at least i can now use poop in my casserole now”

      • Vepr

        I am not sure if this is an accurate analogy but it made me laugh so kudos regardless of accuracy. 🙂

      • JJ

        No font for Sarcasm…

      • KingAceNumber1

        As a Death Guard player, I don’t see the problem.

      • Drpx

        When life gives you poop…

  • Raven Jax

    10 Internet points to the first person who assembles a Stormhost of these Marines and paints them gold.

  • Suave

    FAQ adds how new Astartes Chapters will be founded based on the Primaris Marines. Here’s hoping for a brand new marine faction codex that has never previously existed.

    • Heinz Fiction

      Yes, this game desperately needs another Space Marine codex!

    • LEGION3000

      There are no codexes in 8th edition. Didn’t you get the memo?

      • Suave

        Old ones are all out. New codexes are coming for sure.

        • Muninwing

          nope. faction books, not codexes. possibly only 3 (chaos, imperium, xenos). but no mention of codexes.

          • Suave

            See AoS

          • ImmortalStrain .

            GW has already confirmed Army Specific books are coming later over time. They will add special ways to play each Army outside of the core books at launch.

          • Walter Vining

            Yup, codexes will still be around. did you not watch the live q&a

  • Carey_Mahoney

    BOOOOORIIIIIING!!!!!

  • Luca Lacchini

    With the Primaris Marines getting a full range (troops, vehicles, etc) I wonder if the older, obsolete Marines are getting phased out.
    In a few months or a couple of years.

    I like the design (armor and bolter are great, helmet so-so), but very much on the fence whether to include them in my Crimson Fists army or even if it’s reasonable starting a whole new SM force – maybe Black Templars replacements.
    Wallet is not happy and I’m inclined to listen to its reasons.

    • Aura1

      Although I dislike these as a fluff stain, they will be much higher points cost and can be fielded with Guard armies as a high level tactical add on. I guess it’s more like beefy Terminators than a total revamp (though we are going to see entire Primaris chapters so maybe I’m totally wrong)

    • Warren Grady

      I’m excited. My Crimson fists have been fighting the good fight and trying to rebuild ever since Rynn’s world. I’m rolling with the punchs.
      Me complaining won’t change nor stop the march to replacement war lol. So I will add slowly to my existing force until I feel the need to finally retire my older marines to the top shelf like on Toy story lol.

      • Luca Lacchini

        Opposite side here. I’m rounding out my force with some vehicles (a Stormraven first and foremost, my termies need a ride!), and calling it even at 2500 points total.
        I’ll keep the Primaris from the box and think about a small detachment of super troopers to field along my guardsmen, sisters and skitarii – with a new color scheme, possibily.
        But no mix-and-match in the chapter.

  • True, I won’t call them true-scale as the legs are too short imo 😀
    They still look amazing though. Really bulky monsters.
    I still wanna see how big they are compared to the other recently released Marine kits.

    • Luca Lacchini

      In the last pictures shown in the video there are some “older” Marines in the right side… and they look a whole head shorter than the Primaris at their side (I guess a size difference similar to Marines in PA and in Terminator armor).

      • Ou, gotta re-watch it then, didn’t spot that. Thanks. I’ve only seen the Orks and how thew Primaris already look a whole bunch bigger on the 32mm base alone (as I basically already say for 4+ weeks anyway, lol).

  • Xodis

    Eh, with the mention of a Dreadnought this seems like a fluffy way to stall crossing over to Truscale completely. Its going to be hard to swallow for most, but I do like the nuMarines.

    • ZeeLobby

      I mean the new scale was definitely better, but why not just say “hey, these are the new marines”. This looks even worse imo. Adding a shallow plot twist to avoid hurting feelings. It’s not like we can’t see through it.

      • Xodis

        Yeah, but maybe it will help some conform…I mean Wargamers arn’t really known for thier understanding when it comes to changes lol.
        That being said in that final image there seems to be nuMarines mixed with old ones and the scale isn’t THAT out of line. They probably should have switched scale like ripping a band-aid.

        • ZeeLobby

          The issue is that now they’ve differentiated these two different factions of marines. Now there’s a whole heap of old fluff and fiction which is technically only referencing the old guys. They basically just lost a ton of promotional fiction for different chapters, etc. If they make the new marines identical in performance, then why the break in fluff, if they’re better, than why read about the old crappy marines. It’s just a really odd choice.

          In the past they just simply did it. And most people didn’t mind short of some minor griping (32mm bases for example). Now they’ve just made your space marine army fluffily inferior. And you signed on to be a SM cause they were humanity’s best and last hope… Well… Til now, haha.

          • Muninwing

            yeah. this is phoning it in.

            they’re starting an all-new edition. with all-new books and stats. why not just make SM with the stats to fit the new game? we all know that they are a shadow of the fluff when they’re in game, so just fix that.

            this is why i cannot get excited about 8th for too long. unless i knew that the people writing rules and fluff are on completely different teams with different standards, the optimism gained from seeing much-needed changes is overshadowed by the truly amateur job on the fluff.

            how can i trust GW’s new releases when they can’t seem to create new fluff that might be more at home in a middle school creative writing class?

            it was the same issue i had with AoS — the initial fluff was bad in whole new ways i didn’t think could exist. and much of it is still not very good nor in any real way defined.

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah. If anything this is what will permanently kill 40K for me. The fluff/models are what made it great (the rules have always been medium to poor). Now the fluff is starting to read like fan-fiction, and while the models have tons of detail, sometimes I feel like there’s no longer character in the models.

          • euansmith

            People like to ready about the crappy IG. 😉

        • LEGION3000

          There are no oldmarines in that picture, those were all numarines. And yeah, wargamers who have spent decades building up entire chapters worth of marines are probably going to be resistant to an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT SCALE of marine. I saw this coming after putting together the new deathwatch stuff. Even they were about a head taller than common marines.

          • Xodis

            It looked like the models with the older styled Helmets were still using the old legs and torso, and they looked slightly shorter.

            You should be resistant to change your army, its a good thing its not mandatory though right?

          • LEGION3000

            Look at the knees. If they have that little flair plate above the knee they are all Numarines. I’ve never seen that on any older model before.

          • Xodis

            I am. There isn’t a flair plate on a few of them, only those vents or whatever. Even the helmetless SGT doesn’t have the flair plate.

          • Yes, he does. It’s just the angle. They all have that plate on the knee.

          • ZeeLobby

            They’re all over Stormcast though XD

          • Luca Lacchini

            At 0:38 you can see older SM on the right side.

          • And shortly after a whole bunch of the old ones on both sides.

          • Luca Lacchini

            True.
            By Crom, the size difference is quite blatant for those closer to the Land Raider front.

          • SWISSchris

            But marines have already grown in size so much from RT and 2nd ed days to now. This is just the next step. I’m happy to see new models, there can always be reasons to use them in your forces, or ignore them and continue to use to use your existing marines. It’s all good.

        • Basti Schreyer

          I’d definitely have preferred them calling it what it is. An overhaul of a miniature line that is quite old and could profit from an update. But instead of having them be updated marines, GW felt the need to hype them up to be better than the original.

          It may seem to us like a paper thin veneer of fluff to justify a rescaling but I fear a much more horrible truth.

          What if GW actually think that nuMarines make for great fluff ?

          I would have been fine with them outright calling it an update but this smells of the AoS treatment. First they say that all armies are totally valid and will be supported. Then a couple months or a year down the line the old gets phased out tacidly while GW push heavily for their reimaginings of the old factions. After the nuMarines who knows what foul spawn will claw out of the design studio to rear it’s ugly head on tables worldwide. NuDar? NOrruks? Nuranyds? Who knows…

          P.S Now it’s time to take off the tinfoil hat. I must say the new models don’t strike me as particularly good or bad. I just own a lot of marines already and have no real desire for new or nu ones.
          It’s just a shame that they decided to open 8th with marines.

          • ZeeLobby

            Haha. Have you read their core stuff lately. They probably thought this was the best fluff ever. Expect much much more of this.

          • Basti Schreyer

            Actually I have not read any of the new books. The last time I bought anything from GW proper was when the current CSM codex released.

            I opted instead for Forge World books. And I must say that I enjoyed Siege of Vraks a lot.

            I probably won’t buy any 8th releases either if I don’t have to.

          • KingAceNumber1

            To be fair, Fall of Cadia was a pretty slick piece of writing IMHO

          • Alastair Meek

            Fall of Cadia was fine. Fracture was ok. Rise of A Mary Sue was absymal.

          • LEGION3000

            I agree. Just call an apple an apple. Everybody that played 40k knew they had to remake the marines eventually. That base switch in 7th ed. was a dead giveaway. The fluff for these is absolutely terrible. But 40k fluff has been utter crap for a decade now so why should that change.

      • orionburn

        I don’t know if I’d call it shallow. I think it’s eventually going to turn into a bigger story with them. Despite them saying all chapters will have access to them I really have a hard time seeing my Dark Angels welcoming them with open arms. To me it smells of something eventually going wrong with this new geneseed. Personally I kind of hope for a civil war to happen within the Imperium to further the story line. I just don’t want it to be the Horus Heresy 2.0.

        • Xodis

          Civil war is my hope too.

        • ZeeLobby

          That sounds awesome. But let’s be honest here. The last time GW writers pulled something like that off with any integrity was the Horus Heresy, lol. These are simply the new marines. I expect new dreadnaughts and terminators, and I expect the older box sets to eventually wither away. Every chapter might have some new foot note about accepting the new marines, but they’ll all do it with little fuss. SMs are their money maker, they aren’t going to potentially divide their customers over 2 factions, they’re just going to gradually push every SM player to upgrade.

          • orionburn

            Honestly I don’t care where they take the story line (to an extent) just as long as the story is actually progressing. What matters is to man up and say “this is our plan/story for the next 5 years” and stick to it. GW obviously knows they aren’t going to make everyone happy no matter what they do. They just need to keep a backbone and avoid getting wishy washy on the story.

          • ZeeLobby

            Problem is they’ve already gotten wishywashy. Cawl is 10K years old, but for some reason technology is degrading everywhere… I mean couldn’t he fix it or simply just tell the others. I dunno. Their whole new theme is wishy washy. It’s one of the reason they took AoS to bubbles. They can do anything and just have it revert or change, or a new bubble open up when they need them. Now you have portals through time/space opening up around the warp rift that conveniently spreads across the galaxy… It’s like a bad star trek episode, lol.

          • Xodis

            Actually that could make sense the other way too. Tech is degrading everywhere so what gives? OH! Seems like the smartest person in the galaxy was not only working on something else but funneling billions of resources into it, makes sense why its so hard to get new equipment.

          • ZeeLobby

            And he can’t save the specs to a CD and hand them to a buddy. I mean there’s like stretching the imagination, and then there’s like DERP moments…

          • Xodis

            DERP, Like most pivotal moments in 40K?

            I can see someone thinking that what they are working on is too important to bother with the problems currently happening. Real people do it all the time.

          • LEGION3000

            Not for TEN THOUSAND YEARS. This is like an immortal dude in egypt working on a super soldier up till now and not noticing that someone found an entire whole continent on the other side of the planet. This is the biggest DERP fluff I can remember.

          • Xodis

            What is 10K years to a robot? Absolutely nothing.

          • How many robots you know still working after 10k years? I still have problems to find a harddisk which even survives 10 years. Or a smartphone which doesn’t die after 3.

          • Xodis

            Should have bought a Nokia lol

          • Funnily, I do have a 15 year old Nokia and I still use it. XD
            http://www.swotti.com/tmp/swotti/cacheBM9RAWEGMZUXMGK=/imgNOKIA%203510i2.jpg

          • Xodis

            Looks ugly, doesn’t have all the nicest features….but still works like a champ. Would probably take it 10K years to work out an improvement over regular Space Marines as well lol.

          • Alastair Meek

            Effectively a full quarter of all human history. It doesn’t matter if he’s immortal, it’s still a REALLY long time.

          • Xodis

            It should be, hes not exactly the Emperor now is he? If it wasn’t for perfect plot timing, it should probably take him 10K more to get it right. I think the fluff will probably include something like the Emperor was working on the new Primaris Space Marines but never got to finish to explain how someone could actually improve his work.

          • LEGION3000

            So you have the imperium falling apart for 10,000 years and one dude advancing technology and building, lets face it, MASSIVE amounts of super marines and new tech and vehicles, and he just gives it away. And then the shiney happy people hold hands across the galaxy.

          • Xodis

            Gives it to the new guy in charge, yeah that seems about right, especially since the old guys (lords of Terra who are unhappy Guilliman woke up in the first place) would have burned him alive, and the new guy is on the same page with him.

          • euansmith

            “We have always been at war with Eurasia.”

          • Who controls the past controls the future!

  • Defenestratus

    I like the models – its just too bad that the fluff for them is dumber than dogsh*t.

  • Inco Gnito

    GW pulled off a textbook move from Hollywood:”Hey guys, remember we had that one great idea before? Let us reuse it. Like… change a few things about so it looks a bit different, but essentially is still identical to our awesome first idea. People seem to like it, right? So let’s just do it again. Who cares about artistic integrity and a cohesive intriguing plot, the stats show people like this one thing. So let us just clone it and repeat the process.”

    In the far future of the 41st millenium, there is only copy&paste

    • SilentPony

      I wonder if JJ Abrams was creative consultant.

      • Inco Gnito

        “Guys … what do you think? Can we get a lense flare effect on those plastic miniatures?”

        • Yes, we can!

        • LEGION3000

          OMG they actually put a lense flare on the eye piece on the email from GW this morning. Seriously go look. Its the ABRAMSPOCOLYPSE!

    • Carey_Mahoney

      Word!

      • euansmith

        Ward! 😉

  • 301stFeinminsterArmoured

    Releasing next month, or thereabouts. Cool.

  • SilentPony

    Little disappointing their just Ultramarines…again. I was hoping for remade loyalist Death Guard geneseed marines to throw down against the plague marines.

    I mean ALL that work and its just dudes in Mrk9 armor with a mrk4 and dorky looking bolters?

    • ZeeLobby

      What makes them just Ultramarines (besides the abysmal fluff)? These are the new space marines. Eventually BA, etc. will follow.

      • The FAQ already says they will be additionally and for all chapters.

    • Xodis

      Yeah, the QnA states that all Imperial Factions (even non codex ones) can get these guys. Space Wolves, Blood Angels, UM, IF, etc..

      • SilentPony

        My point is there’s nothing special about them. They’re just Marines…again.
        I mean are they going to get Acute Senses to be Wolves or any of the rage rules to be Blood Angels?
        And if not, if they’re just generic neo-Marines you can use alongside other Chapters, that’s just disappointing.

        • Xodis

          Yeah, its just a fluffy reason to slowly phase out the old models. They should have just pulled the band-aid and told everyone to suck it up. I think its a catalyst for removing the old ways of “you cant improve that because its heresy” to something a little more believable like “hey we can kill things better with that, LETS DO IT!”

        • “faster, tougher, stronger with a better weapon and costing more points” – more or less what the FAQ said.

  • BaronVonYoloing

    Meh. Not a fan this time out of what’s come of 8th ed.

    Sorry, quick clarification, the models look fine. Then again they look like marines with slightly better body proportions (which is a gripe I have with the current range).

    BUT the fluff behind them leaves a lot to be desired. Could anyone answer this?

    1. For years we have been told how being a space marine is the pinnacle of humanity. They were the best of the best and designed by the big E himself. Do these marines mean that he just wasn’t trying hard enough compared to Archmagos Plot God?

    2. About Archmagos Plot God (Cawl). Why has he suddenly become the answer to every issue that crops up lately? Need a leader on Cadia? Found it! Need to resurrect Guilliman? Found someone who can do that too! How about make marines better than the big E’s own? Guess what he can do that too! Just gets boring. Not to mention stupidly unrealistic and mary-sueish to have one guy capable of solving everything.

    3. These can be used by any army. Blood Angels are specifically mentioned so how by fluff has this tech reached the other half of the galaxy which I understand is heavily cut off at the moment?

    4. In the logistics of making said marines how is it even possible for MARS ITSELF to not notice the material or other energy consumption required to make better marines than the big E? Yes this has occurred over 10,000 years but having worked in administration how is it not possible for anyone to not notice this going on?

    5. Does this constitute Heresy by saying that actually the big E is wrong? I doubt the Ecclesiarchy is going to take the news that he can be overshadowed by Archmagos Plot God very well.

    I do have more but I can’t be bothered to type them all down. It just reeks of laziness and bad writing. If the design team wanted to make better proportioned marines there must be a better way than described to go about it.

    In the words of Ebert and Siskel I give this a tumbs down overall.

    • Xodis

      Even the Emperor continued to improve on his original Thunder Warriors, so its not too out of line that after 10K+ ears that someone could come along and tweak what he did for the better.
      That being said I very much think that its Heresy and would like to see the Imperium split over it.

      • BaronVonYoloing

        That’s fair enough and understandable that they could be improved over 10,000 years but it just seems rushed in. Not to mention again the logistics of making enough of these new marines (not to mention guns, ammunition, dreads and other vehicles) over 10,000 years without anyone noticing it is absurd. Especially since something like this would be shut down instantly if found out in that time.

        Then again from what I see the Imperium seems to not really mind that Guilliman is back thanks to Xenos related sorcery so what do I know?

        • Xodis

          lol, Yeah it doesn’t surprise me that no one noticed all the billions of resources that were funneled into the creation of these guys though, the Imperium barely recognizes anything out of the ordinary until its possessed and eating people.

          • euansmith

            “We are expending ten trillion units per year on “miscellaneous office supplies”? And we purchase it all from this manufactorum called Cawl Industries?”

            “Yes, Prime Auditor.”

            “Fair enough.”

        • LEGION3000

          And where were these guys being tested. I hate when they just throw out numbers like 10,000 years to make it seem like this was some long standing plan instead of GW boss saying, ok make Numarines like tomorrow. 10,000 years is longer than all recorded earth history. This is like developing a soldier in secret from the time of Egypt until now and SUPRISE out pops several million of them!

          • Muninwing

            never mind that the Age of Apostasy would have hampered their progress, as would have a number of other events…

      • Thomas

        It’s very much not in line with the theme of technological stagnation that’s been the core of 40k since it’s inception. It just doesn’t *feel* 40k to me.

        • Xodis

          I’m honestly glad they got rid of the “stagnation” of tech, time and time again we hear about how a long forgotten blueprint was found for this amazing new tank or weapon and all it was is adding some different weapons or just adding more.

          • Thomas

            Meh. That’s one of the cool, defining traits of 40k to me. The one that made it a fantasy setting in space, rather than just sci-fi.

            Take that away and you just have a violent, comic book-y sci fi setting.

          • Muninwing

            but that only means there’s a problem here.

            is tech stagnant? or are things being invented? can it be both?

            i think that they did a little too much of the “i just found this!” additions, particularly from 5th onward. the “land” in “land raider” and “land speeder” were named for Arkhan Land as a retcon, after all…

            it’s an interesting idea. but to release this without leading up to a change implies a mistake or an oversight.

          • Xodis

            Im hoping that the actual fluff makes it better than the initial ideas we are getting from the teasers, but as I have already admitted, I can see this getting retconned away in a few years and Truscale becoming the only scale.

          • Muninwing

            yeah, there’s a certain critical flaw in the transparent attempt to just move on.

            i’m wondering if we are soon (as in, with the debut of 8th) will see a fast-forwarding of a thousand (or three) years…

        • It’s basically an “age of happiness” since The Gathering Storm. Primarchs return, tech improves massively, the empire going back on expansion instead of being at the edge of extinction. It all feels so bright and rainbowy to me instead of grimdark 40k.

          • Xodis

            lol yeah that Warp storm that now divides the galaxy was all sorts of “Rainbowy hehe

          • That Warp Storm didn’t do anything yet apart from ‘suddenly being there and nobody knowing why’ and no, it kind of didn’t help to improve my feelings towards: “ok, this sounds dangerous”. Like… at all.

          • Muninwing

            that warp rift is also a good example of misunderstanding the setting…

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation
    • Thomas

      Thank you for pointing out the stupidity of Belisarius “plot armour” Cawl.

  • helter266

    soooooooo if “normal” marines die, and newly made are “primaris” than there is a point in future, where all old marines will be dead. Phase-out?

    • Probably. GW wants you to buy the new Malibu Stacy with her new hat.

    • ZeeLobby

      Ofcourse it’s a phase-out. If the fluff weren’t so dumb I probably wouldn’t care.

      • euansmith

        Space Marines phase out? They were Necrons all along?

    • Luca Lacchini

      I fear so.

    • LEGION3000

      I’m guessing it will be 3 year max before Numarines are Onlymarines. Probably about the time they revamp for 9th ed. I have also noticed that across the board all models are getting out of scale with 3rd party sellers so you cant combine Mantic, or Pig Iron, or any other ones.

    • euansmith

      “We’ve got new orders, all Space Marines are being recalled to Holy Terra. The Primus Marines will remain to hold the line against the Xenos Mutant Terrorist Threat. Apparently there is trouble brewing and we’ve all got to report to some place called Mount Ararat.”

  • Arthfael

    This is the first post-Gathering Storm new thing that I must say sounds reaaaaally boring and that I just can’t fit with anything else than “we need to sell you more plastic crack”.

  • Thomas

    Good lord, these are just dumb. It’s like a 5 year old came up with the idea to make Space Marines even more SPACE MARINE-Y so that they’re like SUPER MARINES and they’re totally the toughest, most powerful SPACE MARINES in the galaxy!

    • memitchell

      Peruse the GW websight, and witness the veritable plethora of “Special” better, bester, bestests Marine types. SternGuard, Vanguard, Death Company, Wolfguard, etc. Nothing new about Super Marines.

      • Thomas

        Veteran space marines or marines with special training =/= SUPER MARINES THAT ARE EVEN MORE GENTICALLY MARINE-IER MARINES BECAUSE THEY HAVE SUPER GENETIC STUFF IN THEM.

        • memitchell

          The background also has super duper Thunder Marines and straight from the Emperor’s DNA Adeptus Custodes. I agree it’s just dumb.

  • memitchell

    NOT Truescale!

    Whew, dodged that bullet! I think. Right?

  • Vachones

    Strange all the hate for these. Is it the models, the background, or the fact that they are more marines? I’m guessing its the last two?

    There are so so many models that need to be updated but clearly GW sees more profit in creating new rather than re-sculpting old models. There have been some updates to old models (
    Rubrics, Celestine, soon to be Death Guard), but for the most part they are packing these with new models to sell. I can’t blame them really, but the list of old models is growing at this point.

    But for me it comes down to the look of the model, and I love the way these look. The current squatty posed marine was never a favorite of mine.

    Now please figure out some convoluted storyline that gets me new Aspect Warriors and/or Phoenix Lords…

    • Yep, people hate the background and that they are Marines+10. I am part of that group of people. I like the models a lot, but that’s it.

      • Vachones

        I can’t disagree with hating the background (I’m neutral on that myself). But yeah, more marines, I get that.

        But they look good…

        • memitchell

          More, better, bestest Marines. I guess EVERYTHING has to be A.D.D. these days.

          • Graham Bartram

            I’m just going to refer to them as MUHREEENS! … always upper case.. ..it seems appropriate. XD

          • memitchell

            MUTHAREENS!

            No, save that for super duper genetically enhanced Sisters.

        • It’s not about them being “more Marines” for me. But “bestestest Marines ever!”.

          • Vachones

            They do love to keep going over the top, don’t they?

          • ZeeLobby

            “made by Guilliman” – Matt Ward.

          • You meant “made by Matt Ward” – GW.

          • ZeeLobby

            Touche…. Sigh…

    • Luca Lacchini

      Design looks good (not so much the helmet and kneepads, but that’s me).
      Background sounds simplicistic.
      More marines is boring.
      Bigger stronger better ‘roidmarines, awful.
      Integration with existing forces… hazy.

  • Balor

    So the thing I find funniest about the New marines is they are going to make a dread for them(talked about in the FAQ). So these guys are basically noobies with all the super cool new toys. Does the mean one of these primaris noobie marines almost died on one of their first missions and someone thought it would be a good idea to put him in a dread?

    • Thomas

      HA!

      “Venerable brother Cassius bravely stepped on a rock during training and split his skull open. He died like a hero.”

    • Vachones

      Because they absolutely have to have a new Dreadnought at every opportunity. I think Drednoughts are half of what FW carries. There is a Custodes dreadnought after all.

      • Balor

        #needscoutdread 😛

        • Thomas

          Pfft, I want a Centurion Dreadnought.

          The size of a Warhound titan with gigantic grav cannons. And inside this suit of mega armour is a regular dreadnought.

          • Evil Otto

            “Yo dawg, I heard you like dreadnoughts…”

          • Thomas

            “AND WE FITTED IT WITH A BITCHIN’ SOUND SYSTEM!”

    • Graham Bartram

      Well maybe Primura Dreadnuts can take a healthy pilot. Just saying…. maybe.

      • Balor

        Wait does that mean we might see SM Primaris DreadKnight ……

        • Graham Bartram

          Is there any money in it? XD

        • euansmith

          Nooooooooo! X)

  • phobosftw

    Hello everyone!
    I am Alpharius and boy have I got a surprise for you..
    #chaosroidmarines

    • KingAceNumber1

      There’s only one problem with your post… you aren’t Alpharius, I’m Alpharius.

  • Badgerboy1977

    They look seriously good to me, well proportioned, crisply detailed and pretty much what original Marines would have looked like if GW were designing them now rather than all that time ago, which I’m sure was part of the idea behind them.

  • KombatWombat

    Gotta say, for all the models are beautiful, I *hate* this, and I’m sure I’m not alone, for one simple reason: Space Marines are supposed to be the best of the best, the exemplars of humanity and the shining light in the darkness. It’s one of the big pulls for collecting Space Marines for a lot of people. Now they’ve gone and made something slightly better. So now whenever a non-nuMarine arrives, they’ll no longer be the very best; it’ll always be ‘oh hey the B-Team has arrived to save the day. I mean I wish we got the new better guys to save us but hey! You guys are still cool!’

    Yes there were the Custodes, but they were so small in number they could never be called soldiers. I feel like I would have been perfectly happy with ‘Guilliman has figured out how to mass-produce Space Marines more easily, and here’s a new armour mark and updated weapon technology to boot. But they’re still regular Astartes inside the suits!’ Instead, all Space Marines just got taken down a peg.

    I dunno man, it just feels like the ugliest kind of cash grab, with resources that would have been better spent joining the 21st century with a useable female army, or updating some oooooold xenos sculpts.

    • Thomas

      Wish I could upvote this a million times. Especially the part about STILL having no females.

    • Testar

      And the worst bart is that it could be a reasonable business decision. Why even care to do proper SoB, new Guard or Xenos while everyone will buy marines! They are the safe choice

    • Martin B

      Yeah the models are nice, but, I want to see a size comparison here. Just how much bigger are these guys? I’ve played marines since the Rogue Trader days and my current Space marine army Is 3 companies strong (Veterans, battle company, Assault reserve company). So now we’ve effectively moved from an elite front line force to a second line unit. Space marines in this edition (whatever chapter you play) are going to be crap. I can just see it coming. I guess we know now though why bolters don’t have the -1 save modifier lots of people thought they should have, because the Numarines have it instead. Space Marines just get a rapid fire 1 boltgun. Way to go GW, way to dump on your flagship line from a great height and long time fans as well. http://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/94fcc30a6dad918c26e05ebdf6cccf276d56d496efa3d9daf50748e58fde0cba.jpg

      • Frey Jepson

        Are you actually complaining about space marines?

    • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

      well said

    • euansmith

      I like to see this like the change between RTB01 Beaky Marines and their replacements, only this time with a bit of fluff so as not to invalidate the older minis.

    • luke-vdv

      Agree with everything but the part that amounts to “it’s 2017 guys, get with the diversity programme” as if you just need a female army to be successful. Why don’t you just say: or make the Sister of Battle playable again…

      • KombatWombat

        It was intended to very deliberately draw attention to GW’s wilful lack of diversity. Only one female faction to a dozen or more all-male factions, and that faction has been neglected more than any other faction. Leave alone that the sculpts for that faction are the only remaining metal faction and often predate many players’ births. Seriously, its about damned time GW, as you put it, got with the program.

        • Thomas

          And we also need female Guard models. Good lord, do we need female Guard.

        • Frey Jepson

          Just grab some female heads from the various bits stores out there. You would be amazed.)

  • Testar

    I would be okay with the new marines replacing the old ones. Just the new line of models. But the Marine 2.0, and incoming Drednought 2.0 and Rhinos 2.0 wtih the “Better, faster, spacier” narative just feel so cheap…

    • generalchaos34

      Im sure they have been waiting and chomping at the bit to roll out newer kits for some of the old stuff without making everyone rage quit and this is the BEST way they could have done that. Imagine the fallout if they released a big marine kit and just said, “hey these are bigger but just the same marines” either no one will be because they are already stocked up on marines or everyone gets butthurt because they feel they must replace their old stuff to be viable.

      • euansmith

        A Rhino large enough to actual hold 10 Marines could be nice.

        • The FAQ said vehicles may be added for them too. So… I’m looking for Grav-Raiders for them. Because, ya know, the Imperium remembered suddenly how to build grav stuff.

          • euansmith

            “Magos, I’ve been looking at these Grav Guns we’ve been turning out from the new STC, and I noticed it has three settings; “Safety” (we never use that one), “Squish” (the standard setting) and, um, “Push”…”

    • Scatter 667

      i think you got the numbering worng:-) we are riding around now with the rhino MkIIc and there were a few Dreadnoughts too;-)

  • Evil Otto

    So I wonder how the Blood Angels are going to explain this to the techpriests.

    Techpriest: “Your new primaris marines are now shipping out to the front lines. The will arrive shortly. One curious matter… the new marines with Blood Angel geneseed kept complaining about how ‘thirsty’ they were all the time, no matter how much water we gave them.”

    Commander Dante: “Err, umm, yeah… that is odd. Oh well, I’m sure it isn’t important.”

    • Graham Bartram

      In the meantime the new Iron Hands Primaris get busy with the bone saws and chop a few hands off. Nutters.

      • Xodis

        Imagine what happens when the nuMarine drinks some Canis Helix…that should work out well lol

        • Graham Bartram

          A new Imperial saint is born, Saint Bernard.

      • Evil Otto

        Iron Hands Chaplain: “Welcome to the Iron Hands, primaris. If you’ll kindly hold out your left hand we can begin.” [Holds up chainsword]

        Primaris marine: “Err… what?”

  • Nico Jürgensen

    Would love to see Black Templar in this Armor

    • KingAceNumber1

      I’m curious how they’d react to it, they’re so into the whole purity aspect that they look with suspicion on the genetic quirks of chapters like BA and harbor outright hatred towards even Imperium-sanctioned mutants like Ogryn and Ratlings.

      • Xodis

        I say unless they perform Seppuku, they are hypocrites.

  • Sonic tooth

    As long as theyre not just ultramarines but taken from other primarchs geneseed as well I’m happy

    • Graham Bartram

      Confirmed already

  • Kostas Pap Gus

    However, not all the Imperium is excited about this. While most of the chapters that were devastated in the events leading up to their uh…announcement (see Fall of Cadia) have welcomed the new reinforcements, some are suspicions of these new warriors.

    A new heresy is coming..

  • Adam Warnecke

    These guys won’t replace regular marines just like GW won’t Age of Sigmar 40k.

    • ZeeLobby

      I’m hoping this was /s.

  • LiftTheFog

    The Imperial split is coming. These marines are not ‘lazy’ fluff. They are going to be the catalysts. Many chapters will reject these marines and there will be another rift. Just like when Guilliman enacted the Codex Astartes.

    • Thomas

      “These marines are not ‘lazy’ fluff. They are going to be the catalysts.”

      Then they’re a lazy catalyst. For a lazy civil 2 electric boogaloo storyline.

      • euansmith

        You were doing fine until you added, “Electric Boogaloo”, now it sounds cool. 😉

    • Graham Bartram

      Yup, then as the little marines die off or go to Chaos and get warp charged up we are just left with big MUHREEENS! on the imperial side and big Chaos MUHREEENS! on the chaos side. Truescale achieved by stealth.

  • Monty Ithes

    So I see that chaos marines will get imbiggened due to getting “warp charged”

    • Xodis

      Thats my assumption. Otherwise there are going to be a lot of smaller marines that may be coming to the darkside lol

      • Monty Ithes

        That fit with this new part of the warp opening I guess, all such terrible fluff. Sad

        • Xodis

          Terrible only if its a placeholder to completely replace the old Marine models, could be awesome if used to start Civil War.

          • orionburn

            The Dark Angels player me keeps hoping for somebody to say “Okay, we need to wake the Lion up so he can see this crap” and spark something between him and Robbie G.

          • Xodis

            Would be cool IMO too.

    • Graham Bartram

      I voted you up for using “imbiggened”

      • Evil Otto

        It’s a perfectly cromulent word. 😉

        • KingAceNumber1

          A great vocabulary really imbiggens the smallest man.

        • Muninwing

          lousy Smarch weather we’re having…

    • generalchaos34

      Its a good way to move out new models for all the cult marines, bigger palgue marines, cooler noise marines, the Rubric Marines are already big, not ugly beserkers!

      • Monty Ithes

        A better business practice is to not try and hide something in plain sight to your customer base.

  • Monty Ithes

    Let’s say it together, deus ex machina.Gw seriously just should have said 8th is here with a new scale.

  • KingAceNumber1

    You guys are missing the real spoiler here. Primaris Marines are now Marine Marines, Marine Marines are now Squats. It’s all coming together.

  • mgdavey

    For every 5 Slightly Bigger Marines in a squad one may exchange his Slightly Bigger Boltgun for a Slightly Bigger Special Weapon.

    • euansmith

      Bigley. ‘Uge. #makespacemarinesgreatagain

  • Greg Betchart

    Blunder Warriors 40k

  • Dalcor

    I call them Gullymarines. Realy? What Gullymarines will say when they saw Blood angels opening throat of the enemy drinking his blood? Hello Guilliam – you know Blood Angels are mutants. How will any battlebrother accept new supermarines. It will be like NKVD troops for Soviet Union. In doesnt make any sense fluff wise, it does make sense in any way. THis is really so LAME for a game which should be interesting but is again the same like in the past….

    • JJ

      Same for the DA. Hmm.. the super secretive chapter is going to be oh..so welcoming to a bunch of new “Brothers”.. yep come on in enjoy the tea! lol

  • Just like the centurions. More pointless SM minis. Try something new for a different race plz!

  • Xodis

    Stats are up for a basic Primaris squad called Intercessor…these are TOTALLY just a replacement lol

    • Link to stats?

      • Xodis
        • Thanks.
          So now that Marines dropped to 13 points, the Numarines will cost 15.

          • Xodis

            Yeah, Ive been comparing them to the Rubric Marines that were released. They are still 2 Power Levels below them, but they have no options. I think that was intentional as well, not that they just didnt show us their options. I can see Regular Space Marines being Power Level 5 since they are weaker but have options, although maybe that makes them Power Level 7…who knows.

          • Numarines are Power Level 6. So like 13 vs 15 points. Basically Space Marines just got better in 8th and got an additional ‘reduced’ version. Kind of the opposite of what the fluff said. 😛

          • Xodis

            Rubrics start out at 8, but its only +6 for every 5 more Rubrics….I guess the Psyker is bonus 2 points then? Seems like a lot for a novice.

          • Well, he got smite after all. On the other hand, smite ain’t much better than Rubrik-evil-Bolters either.

          • Xodis

            Yeah, I’d say its pretty close to being worse since Smite forces you to target the closest unit….but ignoring armor is a bonus….the Dark Lords giveth and they taketh away I guess.

          • euansmith

            This is great for the Botch Job Not Quite Space Marine Chapter I’m planning on running for 8th.

          • Tell me more.

          • euansmith

            They come from an isolated part of the Imperium with no access to a geneseed. They use condemned criminals juiced up on a lethal cocktail of combat drugs and degenerative gene-spicers. Kind of like the first mention made of Space Marines back in Rogue Trader. They do, however, own an STC capable of producing MK IV Power Armour and other obsolete kit.

            I’ve just noticed that Betrayal at Calth appears to have fallen off the GW Webstore. I’d better pick up a second copy from somewhere to give me some extra bodies.

  • Fergie0044

    Model/game wise I don’t really mind. Not a loyalist marine player so meh.

    Fluff wise this is terrible for so many reasons and unless its part of a build up to a second civil war within the Imperium then it is just lazy writing to excuse a new range of marines.

  • Talos2

    I like the truer scale space marines. It’s something a lot of modellers have been wanting for years. It’s a real improvement imo

    • Agent OfBolas

      if not decades 😉

  • Drpx

    That’s it? Lol.

  • Agent OfBolas
  • m3g4tr0n

    So glad I play Orks. I don’t need retconning.

    • Evil Otto

      “Ghazghkull is got deez new supra-orkz in ‘da workz. Deyz bigga den regula orkz, but deyz not gonna replace ‘da regula boyz. But itz a seekrit, so don’ tell no one.”

    • David Leimbach

      Nobs are now boys.

  • Private Skittles

    I understand the dissonance in people’s minds, but I bet people will be absolutely drooling over the Primaris models on deck.

    I’m thrilled to see what the chapter variants looks like, and love the “distrust due to enhanced flaws” angle for the possibilities it opens up.

    • Muninwing

      i’m still working on a whole company/clan of Iron Hands. i’m already rebasing them after the issues with that change. i have no desire to buy new stuff for the project.

      and i already have a whole company of DA; it was my “i’m not playing 5th anymore because this imbalance stuff is getting stupid” project. i’m not even rebasing them.

      and with that, i have enough marines. so no, not going to buy any to make my new project.

      i suppose i might buy a set if they’re an Elites choice… but even then, do i really need them?

      • Private Skittles

        I believe they’re an elite’s choice but it says there are new chapters dedicated just to these guys in the new fluff.

        I’ll be picking up close combat options or variants if we see them soon because models :*)

        • Muninwing

          i have my chapters. i need no new ones.

          • Nyyppä

            A legion maybe? I’m looking at these hoping that possessed are cool in 8th and my bitz box gets some use again.

          • Muninwing

            all possessed need are points-bought options instead of randomness and they’re cool again.

            even if they got one of three categories (movement, combat, ability), you’d at least know their role. or know whether to buy them a rhino.

            i do miss the 3.5 version… my Thousand Sons Possessed were modded to be on mini-discs, took the daemonic flight option, and as Chosen they were Sorcerers… so they all got Doombolt. i basically had nine raptors with heavy bolters.

            but i had options, not randomness. i could resin-cast mini skyboards i sculpted myself, instead of having the cobbled-together kits of now that have no consistency.

          • Nyyppä

            That. Even the current ones would be ok if they were beasts and had all of those random things active all the time.

          • Muninwing

            they’d be awesome. but if properly assessed they’d be expensive, points-wise.

          • Nyyppä

            I meant with the current points in the current edition. What is to come is….well, we will see.

  • Jabberwokk

    God more of them?

    well then all i can do now is Troll.

    Need more variation in your product line?

    Spaceary Sphess Mahreens

    with Boltier Bolters

    and steelier steel rains

    PRIMARIS INDRICK BOREALE OR RIOT

  • Aaaaaand I’m out.

  • Chumba

    I didn’t think Ward worked at GW anymore?

    • Aura1

      He was rehired as a consultant about a year back. If you were wondering about the curly cheese scented hairs you found in your fall of Cadia pudding…

      • Chumba

        Ah makes sense now, I wish they’d just be honest with the players “Guys we want to make new marine models closer to the correct scale, so new releases will now be made to this size, feel free to continue to use your old models” not come up with terribad fluff and say “Yo dawg, we heard you like super humans so we put some more super on your super humans!” this is so weak…the fluff is basically what’s kept this game alive through the bad rules and competitors improving model quality, feels like they are setting themselves up for a slow decline.

        • David Leimbach

          “Guys, we want to slowly increase the scale as long as we produce miniatures so the newest ones will always seem slightly More Heroic (TM)”.
          There’s your honesty.

      • Muninwing

        thought he was hired by BL, not GW proper…

        • Aura1

          BL at the time had been given the Codex/rulebooks to author. A move that annoyed most of BL as they felt they were there for fiction not rulesets. Recently BL separated off to be purely stories and not rulebooks. Matt Ward was never a fiction author and he was there to ‘develop’ the 40K renewal. So the UM/Guilliman/Grey Knights/Super Marines are all Wardian in flavour. Whether he came up with the whole thing or just threw a few ideas in I don’t know.

          • Muninwing

            he’s a fiction author — he tried releasing a book after he left GW, and his website is full of his fiction.

            i’m wondering… do you have any sources? because i’ve never heard BL developing rules or relaunches. though his involvement would explain the terrible quality of the fluff writing for the last year or two…

  • Sweetcurse

    Gathering Storm III plants the seed for Roboute to come into conflict with the ecclessiarchy. So I agree with others that a new civil war is brewing. I’m firmly on the camp to move the storyline forward. As far as Gullymarines, love them, they look a million times better than the goofy looking classics.

    • Muninwing

      all the more reason to need updated Sisters models and an army list that isn’t terrible…

  • Chuck

    Models are great, but I’m not a huge fan of the way this fluff looks. It feels thin and somewhat iffy.

    But I think people are missing the boat on the POTENTIAL future of these Primaris Marines by assuming they’re going to go horribly wrong. I think the bigger problem is that they might go horribly right.

    If you’re Robby G and you set your pal Cawl on a ~10,000 year mission, what is concern #1 you want addressed? Strength? Speed? Toughness? No, no, no – loyalty. You don’t want your Space Marines to be as susceptible to Chaos-funtimes and betrayal. That was what kind of ruined things 10,000 years ago. So maybe Primaris Marines are specially coated with anti-Chaos fluid, or their brains grow loyalty-nodes, or something like that.

    So now, Roboute and Cawl are possibly introducing a bunch of goody-goody loyalty officers into all the Space Marine Chapters. They might be there to make sure the Space Marines Chapters aren’t murdering random citizens or making blood sacrifices or building thrones out of the skulls of their enemies and whatnot.

    If these Primaris Marines just go out there and fall to Chaos and cause Horusy Heresy II, then I will be sadpants disappointed. But if they go out there are start giving the Space Marine Side-Eye to weirdos like the Mortifactors and Minotaurs and so on, then maybe that could be a fun way for the story to go.

    I would love for the Imperium faction to continue to have splinters and cracks despite Roboute Guilliman strong-arming everyone to stick together, but I really hope there’s never some new faction introduced as a part of that. Imperium versus Chaos, both with lots of internal strife – that’s the struggle I’d like to stick around.

    • Aura1

      It’d be nice if they mixed up the geneseed. Send some Lion tinged Primaris to live with the Wolves, etc.

    • I’m with you. I LOVE the models, but I hate the implications for the fluff, both going forward and going back to Guilliman’s time as Lord Commander after the Scouring.

      It feels just lazy and contrived, cheapens the whole point of the Adeptus Astartes being the final bullwark, and having a 2.0 the way they went about it just..

      Nevermind what this means for Chapters like the Space Wolves, who have access to Primaris now but… with what geneseed? The Wolves can’t recruit off-Fenris due to the Canis Helix. They tried. So these are either Fenrisians taken away under Russ’s nose, or non-Fenrisians that don’t work with the Canis Helix. What about the Blood Angels with the whole Red Thirst and Black Rage? I mean, they’re flaws that the Chapters have been trying to hide for 10,000 years, and it stands to reason that Cawl and co knew about them if they ever tested that geneseed.

      There’s so many different angles that make this seem so shoehorned and blatantly unimaginative, I could write an essay about it. As somebody who was all-fluff for years and years and reads an unhealthy amount of Black Library fiction, this doesn’t fly. It certainly makes me reconsider jumping back into the game with 8th, though.

      • Chuck

        This is an opportunity, too, so we’ll have to see how it goes.

        If GW does it right, maybe Cawl comes to the Space Wolves and says, “No, we fixed all that. Here. Here’s Space Wolves gene-seed that will take with all kinds of people. Male people, at least. Go forth and multiply! Pay no attention to the loyalty nodes in their brains…”

        It really depends on how they tell it. The Warhammer Community reveal is flimsy. I want to see a real treatment of how this story goes.

      • euansmith

        I guess some Chapters will have to keep secrets from their new recruits.

        “Hey, guys, is the Sweat Lodge some sort of gnarly sauna or something? Cool!”

        “Um… it is only for us locals, sorry… cultural… ethnic… you know…”

        “Well okay, do you mind if I take the wolves for a walk?”

        “There are no wolves on Fenris.”

      • Xodis

        Those are good points that could lead to those factions separating themselves from the Imperium even more than they do already. So now we have Chaos, Loyal Imperium, and Traditional Imperium, gives us a reason as to why Space Marines are killing themselves other than the classic
        “You are the Heratic!”
        “No. You are!”

        There is also the chance that the Geneseed used from those Chapters, mixed with the new Space Marine building science creates NuMarines with even cooler abilities. Maybe Blood Angels get their normal Death Company and maybe some NuMarines that a bit more controllable yet monstrously fast. The Canis Helix could react positively and now we have NuSpace Wolves that are like a better Wolfen without the freakish look of Wolfen lol.

        Honestly it could be really bad, or really awesome.

    • euansmith

      That is a cracking idea.

    • Muninwing

      xee, i’d love to see this go the way of Fabius Bile — that the experiments go horribly wrong over time, much like most everything in this setting.

      they start as paragons, they go intense or change or want to start their own new thing, and become the monsters they never thought they’d be.

      • Xodis

        Bolt Rifles with Inferno rounds!

        Primaris Plague Marines that are bigger than ever!

        Bloodletters riding Primaris Marines into battle!

        Its all so Chaotic!!!!! lol

  • Aura1

    Interesting to see they didn’t take this opportunity to make the Pauldrons bigger. I thought that was GW’s primary ambition?

    • Orgeston

      As we know, GW has completely lost track of the original vision of 40k. This is solid proof right here.

  • James Tompsett

    Hmm. Odd. Choice.

  • Chumba

    http://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5032cb887c9719f69c33bb5c12b6f4450a7bac28456771741d092e4d095b1474.jpg Although I think the new helmets have nothing wrong with their design this comparison is stuck in my head >_>

  • Alex G

    Actually from in-universe stand point it makes sense. All the other forces advance and adapt- yet space marine gene seed is many millennia old. What once was cutting edge is becoming outmatched and outdated. It makes sense for space marines to develop a more improved gene-seed to stay competitive.

    • That’s kinda the point, innit? The Emperor made them this way and was even planning for them to become obsolete. He didn’t make them better, he didn’t need them better, and to have some mechanicus adept do it just feels… off. I mean, Corax tried and took the gene-tech from the Emperor’s secret vault, and was the only one ever to get that opportunity. He had the templates themselves, the Primarch material, and he destroyed it. What did Cawl even work with?

      • Alex G

        Emperor made them thousands of years ago. Maybe he didn’t need them better back then because he initially planned to use them only for the reunification crusade. Requirements have changed quite dramatically since. As for how he did it – I’d assume that even technologically stagnating imperium can come up with something over ten thousand years. Frankly, we don’t even know if it was l impossible or just a taboo that no one had attempted. For all we know mars could upgrade space marines long time ago, and just waited to get a definitive approval from Astartes, which they finally got with Gulliman.

    • Orgeston

      Ahhh, I get it, so they’re completely against the fluff of the Imperium! Good point!

      • Alex G

        Existence of the Imperium is against the fluff of the Imperium. A society that does not evolve can not survive in a hostile universe that does. There are only so many chaos crusades that can be beaten using the same weapons and the same tactics before it becomes completely ridiculous (and 40k is way past that point already)

        • Orgeston

          And that’s why I personally would prefer if the plot did not progress. Better to have a nebulous time-span of several thousand years with a bunch of mythological battles and heroes and regimes floating around in it.
          And if the plot were to progress, the Imperium should fall, or splinter, or something. Not magically become “BETTER!!”.

          • Alex G

            There’s no reason why gene-seed can not be improved. The only reason is “they just wouldn’t” and “it’s against their character” – which is a silly argument in the face of annihilation. Gulliman spent quite a bit of time meditating on the emperor’s corpse, i can easily conceive how he could have had a revelation. A new idea about the purpose of astartes. And a living primarch would definitely have enough authority to disregard the doctrines of ecclesiarchy (which is by the way itself is strongly against emperor’s vision).

            I personally hate status quo mentality of never moving forward.

          • Orgeston

            “It’s against their character” is not a silly argument in the face of annihilation. It’s not like the authors are going to be killed by aliens if they don’t write the Imperium to be more powerful. You’re committing the fallacy of conflating the author’s motivations with the character’s motivations. That’s like saying “But the boy shouldn’t cry ‘wolf’, that would lead to his death!” They’re completely separate. I say let the Imperium fall. It’s a fitting conclusion to a saga about corruption and stagnation. No reason to ruin the archetypes, morals, and symbolism of the original story to just be able to write some more chapters. That’s called bad writing.

          • Alex G

            Lack.of character advancement is also bad writing. They could explode the Imperium, but that would be far less practical as it would obsolete about half of their model range. And GW is a company that sells models first and foremost.

          • Orgeston

            Which character advanced? The character of the Imperium? That wasn’t advancement, that was it getting a bunch of power dumped on it. Character advancement happens when you reach a greater understanding through some means. They don’t understand anything more, they just have bigger guns. That’s bad writing.

            But yes, I completely agree with you that power-boosting the main faction to artificially keep the story running is exactly what they should be doing to sell more models. I don’t know if that was ever a question.

  • BloodAngel

    Base size? Anyone know?

    • 32mm

      • BloodAngel

        Does it say that anywhere? if they are larger, and looking at the spread of their legs, I can see them being 40mm easy.

        • They are the same base-size as the regular Marines in the video. So 32mm it is.

  • Nick Silver

    Im looking forward ti seeing Primaris marines inside a Primaris marine.

  • David Leimbach

    In close combat – the primaris guys have this move, Locked Arm With Hand On Enemy Marines Forehead. The primaris holds the marine by head while he flails about helplessly trying to punch him.

    • Evil Otto

      This is followed by the “Stop Hitting Yourself” maneuver (2 CP) in which the primaris grabs the attacker and forces him to strike himself at his own strength. This can be repeated in multiple turns.

  • Iconoc1ast

    I really like these minis. I had honestly thought that released pic was a fake but i feel like i am going to like the range. If the new dread is like a contemptor……

  • Orgeston

    Hang on, these guys are the true sigmarines! Look at them, they have Stormcast knee pad rims, Stormcast pectorals, and Stormcast gorgets! The Stormcast were Sigmar’s answer to space marines, but these guys take the cake in unoriginality as 40k’s answer to Sigmar’s answer to space marines.

  • archangeleong

    Thanks GW for invalidating 30 odd years of collecting your finest. 10 thousand years of history and lore is just wiped out like that – what a joke. So sad you care not for my miss spent passion. Good bye and thanks for the good times.

    Hope the player base boycotts this lame and hobby ending grab for cash. But the newbes will probably buy it hook line and sinker. Although with the ludicrously high costs this hobby has gotten to (esp in southern hemisphere) it will be a hard slog and I kinda hope it fails.

    Indeed I feel like an obsolete grunt myself best left forgotten to the annals of history. I will grumble away quietly into the night and spend my few remaining spare pennies on more productive pursuits.

    • georgelabour

      Where did they wiped out the entirety of the setting and start anew?

      Is it in the special advance copy of the rule book you got from your Dad that works at Nintendo?

      If so which page does it say all old models are now unuseuable, and all old factions are extinct?

      Also did you have this opinion when you realized that the marines from the 2nd edition boxed set wouldn’t look the exact same as the original models released back in 1990?

      • archangeleong

        Never said they wiped out the setting nor that my old models can’t be used. Please georgie boy/girl don’t jump to any conclusions based only whiff of information and a casual comment… lol!

        Dad doesn’t work at Nintendo. Do you? Maybe you can enlighten me with the truth or dissuade my end of the world is nigh fears?

        I have collected every edition of marines from RBT01 to the current range and have welcomed every change and improvement throughout the years (even went black Dark Angels to Green). However what irks me with this current iteration of the mighty marine is not the models but the fact that it invalidates the history behind the original, whose appeal (to me at least) was the heroism of a mighty, but flawed, few defending the light of humanity against an all encroaching darkness.

        Now that will all be dust since the new guys on the block, by their very existence, render that past mythology and lore irrelevant. Once the new creeps in the old is always phased out eventually (Prove me wrong mister Nintendo).

        • David Leimbach

          I expect these giant marines will have flaws too.
          Perfectly perfected perfect marines would be utterly bland and boring in any setting.

          • archangeleong

            Likewise I’m kinda expecting this. I hope they have unusually short life spans or some such due to an accelerated gene program. I life that burns twice as bright… burns twice as short… yada yada

        • georgelabour

          Your words: Thanks GW for invalidating 30 odd years of collecting your finest. 10
          thousand years of history and lore is just wiped out like that –

          So yes. Yes you did.

          And now go google “my dad works for nintendo”.

          • archangeleong

            I, like you, love the the fact that you can quite literally “copy and past” text using the word processor. It is such a wonderful tool!

            Also, it’s nice to see that you agree that I said what I said and this proves to me that you are a sentient creature

            However I don’t think I will be looking up any goolgle nintendos or some such nonsense since I’m actually rather a bit of a Luddite, prone to irony and bouts of bathos ,despite my aforementioned love of the word processor and it’s wondrous functions.

          • georgelabour

            You also won’t be providing any facts that might make your posts more than a hyperbole laden tantrum.

            But hey, that’s okay. Everyone’s entitled to an opinion. Even if it’s being delivered in a childish manner which brings nothing to any real discussion.

          • Orgeston

            Jesus, the guy is just asking you to explain the dumb meme.

          • georgelabour

            No he threw a verbal temper tantrum and was called out to provide some manner of proof on it. That it was done sarcastically and with a meme that he’s obviously to young to have knowledge of does little to change the fact.

            If people are going to claim to have special snowflake knowledge that’s utterly at odds with the subject theyr’e moaning about then they need to take responsibility for the inevitable responses.

            Or..you know…not spew venom like a dakkafex, and then whine about how people are mean to them.

          • Orgeston

            I doubt that a 12 year old would know the word luddite or to use it to make themselves look older. Also he said that he had been collecting marines since RBT01, the original box of plastic beakies. Pretty sure this guy isn’t a little kid.

          • georgelabour

            COnsidering he’s using a computer and complaining about plastic toy soliders on a blog I doubt he’s familiar with what a luddite actually is. He merely tried to string together a bunch of big words to lend import to what was merely a refusal to provide the information originally requested.

            As for claiming to have this or that on the internet….well there’s another meme about that.

            And in the end unless he can provide the requested page references from the unreleased rule book that’d be required to prove his point his ‘woe is everything and get out the lighter fluid’ whinging is just impotent spew.

          • Orgeston

            Well, I suppose I don’t really know enough about the guy to argue any further with you about him.
            Did you have any response to the longer comment I made yesterday?

          • archangeleong

            Dear Georgie, I never stated that I had any facts to deliver as I have none. Like you, yourself, I’m simply voicing my opinion within a forum that is designed for voicing opinions on topics that we are interested and passionate about.

            I’m a little upset that you’ve accused me of hyperbole and childishness as I’m a thoroughly serious person! However I’ve come down with my first serious case of nerd rage on this particular topic, because the rebooting of a beloved franchise (even if the reboot is happening within cannon) that is now occurring in such an unsubtle and clumsy way has really irked me…. it must have touched some deep psychological nerve within the core of my being…

            In any case old sport I’m thoroughly enjoying our conversation, even though I fear that the subtleties of irony are lost on you poor fellow. Please keep up the good fight and indulge me some more fuel for my nascient nerd rage.

      • Orgeston

        There is a very big difference between these models and the models released in 1990. Those were an update to the look of the marines. Purely aesthetic, and certainly an improvement. The old design was polished up a bit and got to exist alongside the new one as an equal. They were completely interchangeable.
        These new models herald the introduction of a completely new unit being introduced to the canon. These models put the final nail in the coffin of the set-in-their-ways, rotting-from-the-inside, stalwart-anachronism-clinging-tenaciously-to-the-galaxy-like-a-barnacle archetype of the Imperium. No more. We’ve made the final step to anime superheroes. It doesn’t matter if the marines didn’t change, they don’t exist in a vacuum. How they relate to the things around them certainly has a bearing on their archetype and what they symbolize in their universe. Now all of the importance of what the marines represent has been significantly kicked to the side. The 10,000 years of culture, the individualism of each chapter, the pieces of power armor being passed down from marine to marine, each set telling its own story. Every time they release something like the centurion or the primaris, they’re diminishing that character.

        • georgelabour

          Sternguard , grey knights in power armor, The Deathwatch, Honor guard, The current design of the Astartes Dreadnought, Dreadknight, Baal Predator, Predator Annihilator, Storm Raven, Thunderfire cannon, etc, etc, etc.

          All did the same thing and did not ‘invalidate everything evar1111’ as seems to be implied by these hyperbole laden tantrums people are throwing.

          Now are the original metal and plastic marines from the 90s entirely interchangable with the current tactical squad boxes. Which also did not ‘destroy all things good with the game’.

          As for anime superheroes…that’s just your inner racist trying to justify your pathetic desire to find flaws without actively putting much thought into it. It’s not GW’s fault you dislike asian influences and try to project them into places where they don’t even exist.

          It also shows your ignorance of the extant fluff.

          • Orgeston

            None of those things can do the Space Marine’s jobs as well as they can, or if they do they’re just regular space marines that are more experienced in some way, or they’re specialized to a very specific task. So none of those are equivalent to a new breed completely overshadowing the existing one as an all-purpose soldier.

            Every kit for the tactical marines they released was at least somewhat backwards compatible. You could run the current box with the last box and it would be just fine. Besides, I don’t know why you’re still talking about sculpt upgrades, since it has nothing to do with the fluff, which is what I’m actually talking about.

            I happen to love anime. Ghost in the Shell, Akira, One Punch Man, Evangelion, I can’t get enough of it. But I don’t need anime heroes in 40k. That is not what 40k is about.

            What shows my ignorance of the fluff?

          • georgelabour

            Grey knights are all psykers who are purpose built to fight daemons. Fighting Daemons is also an Astartes job but the knights are given specialized everything and do it better to boot.

            Originally the Grey Knights were a small select band that only operated in small squads fully outfitted with terminator armor. In fact the original tabletop versions ONLY came in terminator squads, and would ONLY deploy if there were chaos units on the board.

            Deatchwatch also receive specialized training and are singled out from other marines to do one thing ‘better’ than their fellow Astartes. They may still be ‘normal’ but they do in fact do their job better than their fellows.

            So again, both are meant to be ‘more astartesriffic than astartes’. They have also all received new model kits.

            Neither of those things have suddenly made previous models unusable in the game. Nor have they superceded extant marine forces in any real form.

            Just point to someone winning a tourney with maximized dreadknights if you wish to prove me wrong. on that last point.

            And again you insist that high level heroics and intense action are somehow anime. That right there is an indicator you are both familiar with the inspirations of, and the extant material written about the setting.

            In one short story published in Inferno Ragnar slide dodges between a Screamer-killer’s legs, hacks up a couple gaunts before he turns and climbs up onto its chest. He then shoves a grenade down its throat, and does a backflip right before the Screamer-killer explodes.

            That was written in 1993. Hardly the height of anime fandom for the British Wargaming scene. It was also right around the time the first Space Wolf army list was introduced in White Dwarf.

            Furthermore last time I checked not a single 40k character makes a habit of screaming out overly dramatic titles for their attacks.

            Nor do they have a tendency to visit hot springs and end up naked in front of their sempais.

            So again your attempt to deride things as being derivative of asian influences is not just inaccurate it shows a profound ignorance of what you’re attempting to critique.

          • Orgeston

            I’m not too crazy about the modern over-represented Grey Knights or Death Watch either. Fortunately, there aren’t nearly as many of them in the fluff as there are Space Marines, and they’re limited to doing their particular jobs. In moderation, they’re pretty awesome.

            Another point, I am not talking about the tabletop at all, nor have I ever been talking about the tabletop previously in the conversation. I’m not talking about the rules, I’m not talking about the models, I’m not talking about who wins tournaments or how many players there are or how much the kits cost, I’m talking about the story.

            I never said anything about high-level heroics, nor intense action. Those are fine by me. This is a war story, after all.

            The similarities to anime I’m thinking of is modern 40k’s trend of slipping away from its grimdark roots and focusing more on super powers and shiny new gear. That’s all we get nowadays, is all these new toys being showered on the Space Marines. 40k used to be about making the most out of what you have, facing a chaotic dizzying universe with limited resources and enemies on all sides. Every cloud had a black lining, and every victory came with crushing losses. The more powerful an ally was, the more dangerous they could be, and you had to keep your guard up to protect yourself from the enemy within as well as the enemy without. I don’t appreciate all these shiny new marines, the “new form” of the Astartes with a new look and a “higher power level”, fresh and unsullied as if the war had just started in spite of the thousands of years of corruption, heresy, mutants, xenos, and chaos. When a legion strong of Super Space Marine X!! suddenly make their debut on the battlefield as if the crumbling descent of the Imperium and the desperate sacrifices of the Astartes mean nothing, that feels really phony.

            And I don’t want to hear about how Cawl had this up his sleeve all along or anything. That’s called a retcon, and it’s super lazy. Yes, it is a retcon. There aren’t any easter eggs or hints along the way to show that this had been the plan all along. They made this up very recently and then retconned in the fact that it had been in store for thousands of years in-universe. The fact is that it’s anti-climactic and, while it may make sense within the purview of the retcon, it does not suit the archetypes, theme, or general plot of the original story. It wrecks the dichotomy of the varied warriors of the 40k universe, and boots out the marines from their slot in the hierarchy of archetypes. Because let’s face it, these guys are the Space Marine’s Space Marines. They are the Emperor’s finest, his bastion of will, the last hope of the Imperium against the forces of Chaos.

            And no, Custodes didn’t do the same thing, they’re the Emperor’s private space marines, and have their own completely different thing going on. Grey Knights didn’t do the same thing (to the same extent), because nobody even knows that they exist, and they fight a shadow war in the warp. Death Watch didn’t do the same thing, because they’re the same old space marines who get picked to go on special missions, and have to learn to get along with each other and work as a team with strangers.

          • Orgeston

            I wrote out a long reply to you a couple hours ago, but it was detected as spam, so it might take a bit to get through their system to you.

          • Orgeston

            Dunno if it notified you, but the comment got through their spam filter.

        • thereturnofsuppuppers

          so… Why can’t the new marines be symbols of a facist, religiously stagnant warlike society.

          Its not like a certain religion had a new savior appear, transform the doctrine, create new ‘warriors’ and still suffer from chaotic infighting inquisition and stagnation.

          • Orgeston

            That is what I am hoping for, that these new marines will have tremendous flaws to balance out their flawless conception and pristine facade, and there will be great consequences that wrack the Imperium. If that happens, like when Konrad Curze made the new marines, I’ll take back everything I said. But somehow I doubt that it will be the case.

            Unless you’re asking why they can’t just slide into the role of the current Space Marines. In that case, why create them in the first place? Why create a new race of warriors that have fewer interesting flaws and none of the 10,000 years of culture, history, and tradition?

          • thereturnofsuppuppers

            Why create them? To soften the entitled nerd rage?

            Because we don’t really have 10,000 years of culture, history and tradition.
            We have a couple blokes in Nottingham who want to sculpt true scale marines.

          • Orgeston

            Are you referring to the nerd rage that would ensue if they changed the marine sculpts? There’s been a size creep since 2nd edition, all the way up to the Deathwatch minis being taller than the current tactical squad box. Everybody I’ve seen who doesn’t like these new marines agrees it would have been better to just release true-scale marines instead of shoving aside the Space Marines as the bastions of the Imperium, the enforcers of the Emperor’s will.

          • thereturnofsuppuppers

            So, couldn’t you play these just as true scale marines then?

          • Orgeston

            As I was saying to GeorgeLabour, I’m really not that concerned with the tabletop aspect of this at all. I’m interested in which way they’re taking the fluff.

        • georgelabour

          Yeah because anime invented guys in armor fighting aliens….

          And ancient empires run by god-emperors with freaksih human mutants serving as navigational systems because everyone feared AIs….

          And elves…

          and orcs….

          And eldritch horrors trying to escape into our reality and consume mankind’s souls….

          And chainsaw swords….

          Yep, so much asian stuff I can see where a ‘pure-blooded’ person like yourself might start feeling insecure about his place in the wargaming world.

          But don’t worry I’m sure there will be some company out there that’ll make a more ‘white-bread’ style setting for you to feel comfortable with. And it’ll have no guys doing heroic things, or using exotic tehcnology. Definitely no psychics or magics because only peeek’muns and silly things use those.

          Heck I’m sure it’ll also lack women so you won’t be offended by that either.

          Also I’ve yet to see any actual facts regarding GW saying all previous lore is going away and is no longer canon.

          • Orgeston

            Your rhetorical charity is staggering.

        • archangeleong

          Agreed Entirely. Seems like you actually understand the point I was making and see the real implications that these new guys have on the future of 40K

    • thereturnofsuppuppers

      Surely if your collection only has value because it relates to the current rule set it was a valueless collection to begin with.

      • archangeleong

        Actually I value my nigh on 30 year old collection rather highly. The point of my post is not any quibbles with the rules dear fellow. Indeed the 7 iterations of rules so far are almost entirely irrelevant to my collection. I have played them all and found good and bad points in each.

        The issue I have that is upsetting me so much is the changes to the 40K setting, around which the Marines are such a pivotal part, and I feel that the fluff going forward is not the right direction and is making moot all that has gone before.

  • MechBattler

    No more crab legs.

  • Jacoby Steffey

    So give it to me straight? (Seriously) are my normal SM’s going to be phased out?

    • GnomesForge

      Haha of course. Anyone who believed otherwise was just lying to themselves. Just try and say it out loud: Games Workshop would never invalidate my current army. Does that sound right to you? http://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/878388492fce204fb74058d4841905991f3979ca0a772b4a54101e5ac5d6926b.png

    • David Leimbach

      Phased out is the wrong term. Die out in the fluff is the correct way of saying it.
      The imperium can make marine 2.0. Why continue to make the old smaller weaker version? Sure every chapter will use their old stock as long as they last, but marines 1.0 die like flies. Shouldn’t be too long before they’re all gone.

  • Josh Watkins

    Whats next primaris terminators in centurion armor encased in dreadnought plating wrapped inside a dreadknight with a transport capacity of 5 that counts as an MC with jump? Bake at 350 for the next 2 years and top it off with fresh cut Matt Ward D-cheese and wham! you got your self a desperate GW hot pocket …

    • Orgeston

      Only $210 dollars!

      …Plus $45 for the book and $20 for each supplement.

  • Frey Jepson

    How did the flavor get so watered down? This game used to conjure ultra-violent images and had a mystique about it. This game is now for the kiddies.(

    • Orgeston

      John Blanche needs to come back.

  • Juan Bautista

    they relesed tons of new stuff before end times on WF. im worried…

  • This Dave

    Seems kind of odd that these are bigger but the heads and shoulder pads are the same size as the current models. Wondering if this will give them a pinhead look.

  • Cyril Barthelemy Guillaume Sco

    Nobz in power armor… Just for convert my khorne teeths …

    • Cyril Barthelemy Guillaume Sco

      Can’t wait the centurion versions

  • Fantaman

    NOW WITH 100% MORE SUPER