40K MUST SEE: Primaris Marine Stats Revealed

Games Workshop has the new Primaris Space Marine Stats up for you to check out!

It’s coming in HOT today! Check out the latest from GW on the Primaris Space Marines:

via Warhammer Community

Couple of key callouts:

  • 2 Wounds
  • 2 Attacks Base
  • 5 models in the unit – not option to add more (for now)
  • Choose your own Chapter

“You can see on the datasheet too, that you can select a <Chapter> as a faction keyword. That means you can add Primaris Space Marines to your Ultramarines, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Iron Hands, Rainbow Warriors, or any other Codex Chapter you like, even one of your own invention.”

You may also notice that these Primaris Marines don’t have the option for any fancy special weapons or heavy weapons – interesting, no? So I wouldn’t burn all your Tactical Squads just yet…

Read the Full article from GW HERE

I’m liking what I’m seeing so far. I’m wondering if the Sergeant will have a close combat weapon option. I’m sure all will be revealed in time. Also, these Intercessor units are just the tip of the Primaris Iceberg. Get ready to see even more units in the days ahead!

…I wonder what the Jump Pack version will be like.

 

What types of Primaris Squads are you looking forward to?

  • El Boyo del Reko

    Huh. They look good

  • Luca Lacchini

    Crunch-wise they seem OK.
    Fluff wise, not.
    Instead of adding and subtracting as needed, GW is once again changing the baseline of the lore.

    They could have been Custodes-light or rebooted Thunder Warriors, improved to be able to fit into any imperial force as stand-ins, elite teams, or whatever needed… no, let’s go cheap and have them as bigger marines, making the older supersoldiers pinnacle of mankind effectively obsolete.

    Not happy.

    • Red_Five_Standing_By

      There is no difference between Custodes-Lite, rebooted Thunder Warriors and Space Marines+.

      They all render older Marines less valuable.

      • Cergorach

        Not really, Deathwatch didn’t make the other Marines less valuable, just different. This feels like Marines Mk.2 better in every way, except points.

        Now, they do look cool and the previously leaked early image is indeed true and not a photoshop as so many ‘experts’ claimed.

        Fluff wise I think it’s an interesting choice that might make inter SM politics a lot more interesting. SM chapters, companies and squads feeling cheated by their Primarch. Rebellion, strife, etc. Papa Smurf did not just now give the finger to all the SM out there, he did that 10k years ago when he gave the order to develop them and left with the order: “Wake me when your done.”.

        • Trey

          There have been other attempts to create New Marines – better than the originals.

          Gray Knights (success)

          Lamentors (partial success)

          Sons of Antaeus (success)

          Primaris may well be an upgraded Sons of Antaeus, or in the new fluff Sons of Antaeus were a trial run for Primaris Space Marine.

          • Red_Five_Standing_By

            I totally forgot about the Sons of Antaeus

          • Trey

            lots of fluff..(much of it poor) to remember

          • angelblade

            dont forget all the chapters of the 13 & 21st founding were experiments, attempts to make better marines. wouldent suprise me if it was crawl who did the tinkering, live tests of ideas

    • Jack Biddo

      plus those older supersoldiers pinnacle of mankind, that have been fighting for hundreds of years, would get punked by these fresh out gene-tube noobies in a fight. Fluff is dumb and will only get worse if they stop supporting the older size marines. An army of these guys would have no history/fluff behind it. You couldn’t say “this is my unit that fought on Armageddon.” All you can say is “This is my army and they are all younger than the Tau race.. wait I mean they are all younger than most of the current generation of Tau even though Tau have a very short life span. They just flew from Terra and are ready to fight!” Dumb fluff but really cool models.

      • georgelabour

        So in the advanced copy of the rule book and settings notes that you got (from your dad at Nintendo)…where does it say these primaris marines can easily defeat the veteran forces of an active chapter?

        • Tholric

          Are you kidding me? What part of “Bigger, faster, stronger than the marines” didn’t you read?

          • OldHat

            Custodes are bigger, fast, and stronger too. Didn’t stop them from getting killed in the Heresy by normal Marines. Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo…

          • georgelabour

            You did not claim they were bigger, faster, stronger. Nor is that being disputed.

            Please go read what you wrote, and then provide the appropriate references from the new material that proves they they will handily defeat more experienced opponents.

            Or just admit you’re engaging in a pointless tantrum which has no real basis in relevant facts.

      • wibbling

        I couldn’t care less. They’re fancy plastic toys with a daft backstory.

        Enjoy them, don’t. Up to you.

    • Trey

      Not a retcon, these are actully NEW to M41.

      Surely in the age of the Imperial Truth there were plans to upgrade things in the future.

      Bolt rifle= Stalker Pattern with kraken bolts. Still not as good as what death watch gets to play with but better than standard bolter.

      Mark X armor, no change in stat line really unless one things of the ARMOR itself having 1 wound and the Marine having 1 wound.. sort of like Terminator Armor.

      It looks like it is a revision of Mk IV Maximus Armor

      Its still a tiny upgrade from Space marine.

      Using extant fluff a better upgrade is possible..

      if cawl had set to the forge, make MK IV+ “Modernized Maximus” armor = Mk10

      Add refractor field
      Add “Artificer” quality

      Issue all marines with full load out of death watch ammo and Stalker Pattern Bolter (which is a bolt rifle really)

      You get 2+save 5+inf
      Kraken
      Inferno
      Hellfire
      Metalstorm

      And then you the Space Marine would be far more adaptable (RG’s favorite)

      • Red_Five_Standing_By

        So.. Deathwatch with terminator saves? lol/

        • Trey

          Personally as a I.G. player I always fount it odd that I could…

          Put a terminator in my basic APC/IFV
          Issue Refractor Fields to Jr Officers
          Have Heavy bolters / and storm bolters in normal formations when the Bolter is supposed to be a nearly “holy” relic
          Have my least best (Griffon) support better than the SM Whirlwif.

          The Space marine should have access to all IG equipment and in pretty much what ever quantity they wish given their status in the Empire.

      • Luca Lacchini

        It’s not a retcon problem.
        It’s a role (in the setting economy) problem, as they overlap something existant.
        Grey Knights and Deathwatch are specialized types of SM and do not invalidate anything.

        These guys are invalidating a type of figure in the universe – the elite, genetically improved soldier.
        Existing armies (such as mine) will still be workable, even competitive in the battlefield, but their weight in the overall fluff is diminished, different.

        As I said, the crunch and sculpt are OK, it’ the fluff tha sounds cheap, bland.
        Were they a specialized type of SM, it would be more acceptable, IMHO.

        • Trey

          Would more say they are PIP-Marine (Product ImProved)
          As I point out else where if R.G. could just get the Extant equipment better produced and moved forward Space marines would be a lot better per man.

          If one goes back to 3rd fluff Each marine was REQUIRED to train with xenos weapons each training cycle, given that a few companies using Tau weapons with “dress up kits” to make them look more imperial would be possible. What hold the Imperium back is the end of the Imperial Truth at least Tech wise.

          R.G. may allow Tech to move forward even if in only fits and starts.

          • Red_Five_Standing_By

            Tech became religion rather than Science. RG comes from an era of science and innovation. He probably would have expected that the Mechanicum would have created lots of new marks over the course of 10,000 years (instead of just 1).

        • grim

          so if GW came to you and said “we have these new larger marines in sweet new armor please write some fluff” what would it be? old marines in a new armor suit?

          • Trey

            my answer

            A vault deep with in the mars is opens there stand 9,000 suits of Mark X Novo-Maximus armour next to the next to them a 9,000 stasis locked geneseed each created from the Primordial genestock fro the 9 loyal primarchs at the request of the Lord Commander of the Emperium

            They have rested untouched by the passage of time or the corruption of chaos.. waiting for his call to reclaim the rightful possession of man

            How is that ?

          • Xodis

            Doesn’t really explain the size increase, but its about as Mcguffiny as the rest of GWs work.

          • Trey

            closer to the primarch. and there is of course the experiments by the adeputs mecanicus with the Sons of Anteus

          • Derek Lee

            They can give us true scale marines but not have to take responsibility of listening to the hobbyists, customers, etc.

          • Luca Lacchini

            First, I’d ask for the paycheck involved,

            Then, the timeframe given for elaborating a long and comprehensive enough fluff.

            Third, I’d try to come up with some reasonable stuff which adds them to existing imperial forces (again, Custodes-light, rebooted Thunder Warriors, maybe even vat-grown blanks ready to accept chapter specific geneseed, else), instead of just replacing what’s accepted as a given by players, thusly minimizing the perceived power creep.

            But first, the paycheck.

          • ZeeLobby

            Give this man a paycheck! Sounds lightyears better already.

          • Muninwing

            yeah — i’d think that it would have been pretty easy to have created some better fluff by just working with what already exists instead of cramming an already-existing idea into place and turning it up to eleven.

            the NuMarines could have been an experiment that the Primarchs and Emperor created to solve certain Geneseed problems, where the successes of creating the Custodes were then used to modify the Astartes process. The result would be faster bonding, easier recovery of geneseed, better product, fewer genetic throwbacks, and stronger skills.

            if the Emperor-created lab that started the experiment was still in existence, untouched and hidden, then RBG could reactivate it. if some of it is damaged, decayed from neglect, or missing, then the production might be slow, or difficult, or unwieldy… but ultimately worth the investment. this could start off the creation of the new generation.

            it would still feel shoehorned in, but at least it would fit the narrative and the theme.

          • Alastair Meek

            Easy. “Even before Ullanor, the Emperor knew that there would be foes that his Space Marines could not face. While creating superhuman warriors was no longer his primary goal, he still worked at improving their genome. Unfortunately, as the Heresy engulfed the galaxy, and he found his attention increasingly required in the Palace, he was unable to continue his work. Declaring the genetic alterations unstable, he ordered them sealed on Mars. Now, 10 thousand years later, Gulliman, in desperation, orders the alterations unearthed. Unstable they may be, and who knows what effect the years buried in long forgotten Martian vaults may have had, but in this, the darkest hour the Imperium has faced since Horus, what other choice is there?

          • Luca Lacchini
          • BioClone .

            For me even a full chapter in cryostasis lost during the heresy on a space hulk would become a much more interesting plot if you ask me.

          • grim

            ewwww come on man. Either way you should totally find a new hobby if this one isnt doing it for you anymore 😉

          • BioClone .

            well, I stopped painting and playing warhammer like 6 years ago so yes… I did, I actually 3d model (ironically a lot of w40k)

            https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/90469956950434377/A7722F341BA1FD72B06707CAACBB690AC311E3A9/

            Anyways, the fact I dont like this lore-related excuse to make SM 2.0 dont means I hate the hobby at all…

      • Crevab

        That they invented a genius Arch Magos, as old as the heresy, to move the story forward is also a problem

        • Red_Five_Standing_By

          Why?

          • Crevab

            Really?

          • Tholric

            The fact that he even needs to ask “Why” says it all.

      • angelblade

        i think Mk IV Maximus Armor was the most advanced. the marks after were inferior due original to the need to produce faster for the heresy and then after due to the simple loss of knowledge.

        what this represents most isnt about the marines really but about the ad-mech and imperium as a whole, this is the first technological advance humans have made in 10,000 years

      • Muninwing

        new — in an era of 10,000 years worth of backwardness for technology, and thousands before that where it was lost to barbarism and mad-max-level insanity.

        because Cawl is just that good, right?

        lame…

        • Trey

          think of him as Meowth.. he actually read the manual.. or maybe he has access to a more compete STC.

    • Bellumvinco

      Damn Terminator armor makes my power armor obsolete! Damn stormbolters make my bolters obsolete! Primaris Marines make my Astartes Marines obsolete! Oh wait, No; they don’t!

    • Moik

      Yep. OH GOD YEP. “…no, let’s go cheap and have them as bigger marines”

      This is what really gets me. The marines were already on the ungainly side of huge. An inch larger and they’d be unable to fit into… anything. It makes no sense to make them bigger! Stronger? Maybe? I don’t like it but at least it’s plausible.

  • ZeeLobby

    Wonder how many people I’ll see even wheel out their old garbage pale marines.

    • Agent OfBolas

      Those “Garbage” old Marines have access to special and heavy weapons – those new ones, don’t.

      • Xodis

        Plus being limited to 5 models seems like a very risky proposition in this game where weapons seem to be quite powerful.

        • ZeeLobby

          I mean who knows right. Splitting into 2 5 man squads forces split fire. Might be that it’s the better choice.

      • Cergorach

        Currently the Intercessor Squad don’t have access to special or heavy weapons, but expect the other types of Primaris Marines to have access to them…

        Also, not all options are displayed here, where’s the Primaris with the Powersword in this statline?

        • Red_Five_Standing_By

          The Power Sword guy has a different sized base. He is not part of the squad.

      • grim

        ill be pulling out my “garbage pale” sternguard and laughing all day. They’re going to be the sheet!

        • Mr.Gold

          just use NuMarines as stearnguard… job done.

      • ZeeLobby

        We already know they’re getting devestators. Just need Commissar’s Notebook 1 to suddenly allow them to be taken in 10s and bring a HW.

      • Tholric

        I can see a plasma primaris in the picture, though.

        • Agent OfBolas

          yes, GW plans to make new units for Super Smurfs. Just like for Sigmarites

    • grim

      thank god you only comment on this site 😉

      • ZeeLobby

        If your insecure about your own puny marines I understand 😀

  • Greg Betchart

    Blunder Warriors

  • ILikeToColourRed

    so these guys are valued around the same as 1k sons for casual play?

    • Xodis

      2 Points less than 1K sons actually. Rubrics start at 8 +6 for every 5 more, plus weapon customization.

      • Christie Bryden

        which includes a psycher, a invulnerable save, a special boost to there save against normal weapons and there higher ap bolters.

        in theory this could be done well, these could be the imperiums answer to the more powerful legion troops, but that ONLY works if legion troops are superior to your standard space marines.

        • Xodis

          Will definitely be interesting to see how it plays out.

          • Derek Lee

            Oh man. Will we get Primaris librarians?

  • Scatter 667

    I dont understand that people complain about new marines! For now they seem to be similar to deathwatch with new vehicles and gear and stuff. Yes they lokk very different and the fluff may be a bit strange, but the rules for the intercessors is not to breath taking. 2 wounds, but no special or heavy weapons? they have long-range boltrifles and wound better and break the armour, but what about all those bit beasts with invulnsaves, which most likely will not be modified by ap? I dont see them substituting the normal taq for now! Similar to deathwatch, they will be around and played, but hardly the new normal!

    • ZeeLobby

      Most people are complaining about the dumb fluff of the new marines, not the models or stats themselves.

      • Scatter 667

        i have the feeling that some think they might become the new normal in the near future and old sm minis will not be supported anymore. that might happen, but i dont think that gw is going to slaughter ist cash cow and piss all sm players off by invalidating there models. Fluffwise we will see the whole thing when they are out and fluff is available. the article is just a small teaser. The sculpts themseves are nice i think, nothing spectacular but and evolution.

        • ZeeLobby

          The problem is their “cash cow” has been milked to death. Why would I ever buy a tactical squad from GW when I can buy one off eBay for 1/5th the cost. I mean the SM 2nd hand market is beyond saturated, and you can only release new variants of SMs (DeathWatch) for so long. Financially it totally makes sense to phase out old marines and push existing and new players to new marines. I can understand why some want to deny this as a possibility, but it makes the most sense.

          My issue with the fluff is that it was completely unnecessary. Marines have been updated before in the past, and people have dealt with it. Now why would I go back and read an older 40K book when I can no longer buy those models, and only have the better new-marines to play? Just sloppy imo.

          • KingAceNumber1

            Agreed. I don’t hate the fluff change, I actively enjoy how the models look, but it seems like it was a bit of an unnecessary step to fluff-justify them when they could just redo the range. Hell, Plague Marines are getting a straight update and we’re all pleased as punch about it.

          • ZeeLobby

            A perfect example! And I’m sure the old plague marines will look lacklustre in comparison, but I don’t think players will care. They’ll be happy just to get new cooler looking models. Why they couldn’t just do this for SMs is beyond me…

          • Red_Five_Standing_By

            because they want to adjust the rules for Space Marines but do not want to grand father the old models in?

          • ZeeLobby

            Well of course, it’s totally a sales tactic. I meant for the love of their community, haha.

          • grim

            you really think re-doing the range would not piss a lot of people off? Also you realize each kit costs like 100K to produce lol

          • Scatter 667

            You are right that you can get used sm everywhere for cheap. The thing is that a lot of people still buy new miniatures and would never bother to buy, scrip, repair and repaint old miniatures. And they still sell a lot. In addition they would have to update all modells from all factions in reasonable time. and i think this is not going to happen.
            Again, the fluff is not out yet and we only have one article, not a chapter or a whole book! lets hear the whole story first!

          • ZeeLobby

            Er… I can find full sprues of tactical marines for less than MSRP…

            And why do they have to update all models in reasonable time? It’s not like people didn’t run old devestator squads next to new marine squads all the time in older transitions. Heck, some of the CSM line is ancient running next to the latest and greatest.

            And call me a pessimist, but there’s no way the story is going to somehow much magically make sense, lol. I mean I’ll be the first to admit it if i’m wrong, but it’s going to be dense and gimmicky.

          • Scatter 667

            Its all right and true about the used stuff, but every time i’m at the GW store people buy tons of sm stuff new. It works and they sell mostly sm.
            I play CSM and i run all i have, since its an old army with MK1 rhinos next to new vindicators, new spawn and the old berzerkers and oblits. But some dont do that but go for new and shiny.
            We can argue about the fluff, but i think we will get the explaination. As CSM im still waiting on a successful crusade from Failbaddon, who magically always fails;-)

          • ZeeLobby

            LoL. True. I do doubt we’ll get an explanation though. It’s simply going to be some side story about how geneseed can now only be put in new marines, and things will be phased out. Just think the story and fluff in general was totally unecessary.

          • BT

            Speaking of the story making no sense… look no further than the Orks…. Their stuff works because they believe it works due to their Psychic collective. Yet they have some of the worse Psykers in the game.

          • Red_Five_Standing_By

            Why would an army of latently psychic people have the best psykers?

          • BT

            Didn’t say best, said worst. Even Tzeentch doesn’t have psychic created weapons though. They got Soulblaze instead.

          • ZeeLobby

            There’s like cute, small, side snippets of stories that make no sense, and then there’s like the core of the 40K universe. Clearly you can bet which one I think this falls into, lol.

          • Xodis

            Again, I can see it going 1 of two ways.
            1) Its filler that will eventually be forgotten and even erased in the fluff, so the older fluff will stay relevant. And small marines go bye bye.
            2) Its a necessary catalyst to divide the Imperium, and small Marines will stay around forever.

            Im ok with either honestly.

          • ZeeLobby

            Definitely don’t see them going route number 2, they’d just cannibalize sales for those who are interested in power armored super warriors. And lets be honest, when given the choice, who is going to pick the smaller guys???

          • Xodis

            Thats a good point…unless they go with a narrative route where the non codex marines give the Super Sized Marines the fingers….like I expect they would.
            Its hard to justify the Blood Angels, Space Wolves, and Dark Angels allowing these “outsiders” into their ranks, then they also have to come up with a reason that *insert special character here* is still somehow relevant while being the little guy on the team.

            As for cannibalizing, I totally agree, but they said the same thing with all the non-codex marines before along with CSM. In the end I think we will have 2 types of marine players. Those with tons of models and those with a small elite force…the same guys who bring a Imperial Knight or two as their entire army.

          • ZeeLobby

            Why would it be hard to justify these “outsiders”. They’re clearly superior bodies to fight the enemies of the emperor. Sure they might have some deep-seated inferiority issues, but in the end they’re still devoutly loyal to the emperor, and his now walking testament Guilliman.

            And I’d normally agree with your “elite vs horde” concept except that mini-marines do both. Just take terminators instead.

            I don’t know, it just seems like a long stretch of the imagination to make the co-existence of both these factions work. I imagine we’ll see new releases for the big guys, and nothing new for the small ones, and eventually they’ll TK the small ones, and the only option will be big. Then that year they move the squad size to 10, and add more options.

          • Xodis

            Because those Outsiders are not part of the “same team” the way other Space Marines are. What are those outsiders going to think about the lunatic, blood drinking, Death Company? What will they do when they come face to face with a Wulfen? What will happen if they discover there all the mumbo-jumbo going on with the Dark Angels?
            These specific 3 chapters were pretty anti-Guilliman back in the Primarch’s days, so I wouldn’t expect them to just follow suit. Especially if other Primarchs start popping up, Leman Russ will probably be the most vocal about Guilliman being a heretic. Then we may have a divided Dark Angels depending on the whole ordeal with the Lion, and the Blood Angels have their own celestial being to worship.
            I agree that mini-marines (i love that) are already able to go Horde/Elite with Terminators, but so can Orks and ‘nids so its not far fetch to add some more factions into the bowl.

          • ZeeLobby

            We already heard that some of those chapters are getting new marines though. I mean I would find your approach more plausible if they weren’t…

          • Xodis

            True, but I’m hoping thats a reference to the game rules itself and not the fluff. Wouldn’t be the first time the fluff and rules were way off from each other. Let players call it “a loyalist Space Wolf company” or some garbage like that.

          • ZeeLobby

            True. Don’t get me wrong. A civil war, if a little copy-paste heresy style, would be an awesome way to mix up the 40K universe. I’m just not positive they have the elegance to pull that off. I mean who knows, maybe they do.

          • Xodis

            I think they can and probably will, they still have some great writers there, despite what some might say, and I expect this new era of 40K has been in process far longer than we think it was.

          • Shawn

            Yeah, I would hardly think the DA’s Inner Circle would have anything to do with these guys. I mean what if they find out that the #thelionisatraitor or something?

          • Shawn

            Uh, because the smaller dudes are cheaper on ebay, like you said. You can stll find old rhinos, and other tanks on sale there, so they must still sell. I see the same happening to small dudes as well, even if GW phases the smaller model out. Which, I think would be kind of stupid, since they just released Deathwatch, and their armor has a distinct style. Swapping out shoulder pads wouldn’t be enough for some folks.

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah. Although I’ve always wanted them to go closer to true scale marines, the current line seemed great. I mean it’s a clear case of wanting to resell the same product to the same customer. It’s like people who buy new smartphones every year. In sure they’d love to sell us new Space Marines every year, haha.

          • Shawn

            No doubt about that. Oh, by the way, had a chance to play any Shadow Wars yet?

          • ZeeLobby

            Im still building terrain, haha. It’s just so beautiful. I just haven’t decided if I want to glue it all together in some permanent configuration, or try to keep it modular. What did you do?

          • Shawn

            I’ve had so much going on, that I haven’t done much more than drool over the sprues! Although, I did build a kill team of Iron Hands scouts. I used the Salamanders because it was the closest to what I thought the Iron Hands should be. I don’t get why, once again, my founding chapter was left out to hang.
            As for the terrain, when I get to it, I’ll probably keep it modular in some way. I plan on buying more eventually, so I can have a big sprawl when I have the space!
            I plan on building an Ork kill team too because I can bring squigs! Yay for squigs!

          • Trey

            The fluf is not all that bad.
            R.G. who was a Follower of the Imperial Truth and set to create Emperium Secundus requested an upgrade to the space marines.

            Its not like he had not just seen 1/2 of the legions REBEL and might want something better in the future to deal with them.

            as an upgrade they are not all that impressive anyway. fitting out an entire chapter in artificer armor with A.M. (IG) refractor fields and Stalker Patttern Bolters with combi-Grenade launchers would have been more effective in the new rules (in as much as I understand them)

            If a A.M. Lt can have a Refractor Field EVERY marine should have one!

          • ZeeLobby

            Well, the difference is they’ll be getting all the new stuff going forward. Maybe the basic marine isn’t amaze-god good, but they’ll be getting any of the new stuff.

          • Alastair Meek

            More than half, he seceded as well, and dragged several other Legions with him. Gulliman’s a traitor.

          • Shawn

            I can see your point Zee. And what’s to say about the old marines in the fluff, if these new ones become the norm?

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah. I mean one of their big drives is bringing new players to the game. Why have two factions with overlapping appeal to a new player. Why would they chose the “inferior” marines. It’s not like their humans like IG. I dunno. Just a head scratcher.

          • Shawn

            Agreed. And they could have simply given marines all 2 wounds, since it is a new edition and all.

      • Tholric

        “Most people are complaining about the dumb fluff of the new marines”

        Ding ding ding we have a winner

    • Some of it is opportunity costs as well. If you don’t play marines, it can be mildly irritation to see the constant roll out of marine stuff while GW ignores stuff that is really dated and sometimes still metal. Personally, I don’t care one way or the other, but I get why some people would be irritated.

      • Scatter 667

        you are right, i play CSM world eaters and i still have to wait for a Berzerker update or decent havocs. But i dont think thats the reason. SM palyers tend to whine if something is changing and they fear they are lost behind and stuck. When they announced the errata and changed dreadnought attacks to 4 for vanilla, it took 24 hours and a lot of crying and everyone got 4 attack dreadnought, even CSM Helbrute;-) SM: What there is something new? my stuff is worse, only second grade? can’t be!

        • Red_Five_Standing_By

          To be fair, GW did screw non-Codex Marine players a lot by not keeping things the same.

          • Scatter 667

            i know, a friend of mine playes blood angels and i didnt know their scouts were worse than vanilla before their errata. But still the point is valid: everyone was crying and within 24hours, voila, kids here are your treats! I
            ‘m still playing with my 4,5 year old 6edition CSM codex, not because its cool, but because they don’t care to update! I’m not even talking about all the old heresy stuff, which just vanished and chaos has no access to, like cataphractii and such stuff. And for the new addition CSM lack sniper weapons to target characters and most likely won’t get them, no matter how hard they cry!

    • grim

      these dregs will complain about literally anything.

  • euansmith

    I’m liking the proportions of these new guys.

    “For Ultramar, and Ultrapa, and Ultrauncle too!”

    • Shawn

      Ulttradroll! Ha!

  • Milleniunmsword

    Next kind of Squad: Super Devastors.

    • euansmith

      Devastatorors!

    • KingAceNumber1

      Each Primaris Devastator just carries around a normal marine Devastator in each hand

      • orionburn

        And Primaris Assault Marines just throw other space marines at the enemy.

    • Milleniunmsword
      • orionburn

        One of the articles hinted that info on new assault and dev squads would be coming. Wonder if we’ll see an emergence of new heavy weapons for their devastators.

    • BT

      I was thinking Centurions the size of Dreadknights, and Dreadknights the size of Imperial Knights.

  • ZeeLobby

    The models are definitely an improvement. I like em a lot.

    • euansmith

      I’m assuming those are 40mm bases, like Stormcast.

      • ZeeLobby

        Yeah, looks like it. I mean I’ve been wanting true scale, and more importantly true power, marines for a while. They were the elite choice that never really felt that elite in the past.

        • Timotheus

          That’s like the only good thing about all this. We can use the rules for true power marines for our old guys (and the models for true scale if you are solvent and motivated enough) and blend out the fluff nonesense of the past months…..

      • KingAceNumber1

        The sergeant in the middle is definitely is on a larger base, which leads me to believe the numarines are 32’s

        • BT

          Sergeant also has a powersword, but there is no powersword listed as a option. No option for 10 guys either… so who knows if they are mixing and matching figs.

      • orionburn
        • wtfsuit

          he is not a sargent base is different and on the profile they cant take swords

          • orionburn

            They’ve said that not all weapons/wargear will be on the profiles due to all the options. Common stuff will be, but not everything. What else would he be other than a Sargent? I’d say it could be a new special character, but the photo sells it that it’s a unit, and since characters can’t join units it would give the wrong impression. I suppose for just advertising purposes it works.

          • BT

            I suggested the possibility of mixing and matching figs. Which would be a mean thing to do IMO. Boarders on false advertising on top of it.

            I say yes, that is a Sergeant. But is it a Tactical Sergeant? The profile above also doesn’t list more than 5 guys. I take everything about GW with a grain of salt.

          • orionburn

            I was thinking about that too. Even if you can take two 5 man squads of PSM in a Land Raider that doesn’t account for them being so close together if they’re capped at 5 per squad. It’s a great photo, but it needs to represent what’s possible in the game as well. Could be as simple as the photo being taken two months ago and not knowing all the rules at the time.

          • BT

            Yup, totally agree.

        • Xodis

          I think the Red Helmet is the Sergeant and the other guy would be the new Captain.

          • orionburn

            Ah…good point. That would make more sense than the sarge being on a bigger base.

        • euansmith

          Weird! I guess it really is all about the base.

          • Xodis

            No Trebble?

  • Chet Atkinson

    No evolution of power armour here – just a kitbash of older models. Still it’ll save a lot of peeps money cos they can easily use their old models

  • Farseerer

    They’re nice models, no denying it.

    I’m not buying the whole conspiracy theory on regular Marines being replaced. I’ll be the first to come on here and apologize if it happens but until then, I’m not going to be rage quitting 40k or selling my current marine army on ebay for peanuts.

    I can see why people might think otherwise but in my eyes there is little GW has done in the last 2 years to suggest that they would anger their customers like this.

    • ZeeLobby

      I mean if we hadn’t heard rumors of new Assault and Terminator versions of them I’d say maybe there was a chance, but the writing is on the wall. Why they put such dumb fluff on it is beyond me.

      But it’ll work like Tomb Kings in AoS (an example of this in the last 2 years). Sure you can always PLAY your old marines, but eventually buying them will be a challenge.

      • Farseerer

        The fact that there will be a couple of variants of these guys available doesn’t change much in my eyes.

        Until it’s stated by GW, I wouldn’t be saying the writing is on the wall about them stopping support for the current model range. There is an entire new set of Chaos Marines coming out at the exact same time as them in the regular hero scale.

        The parallels with Tomb Kings simply aren’t there. The TK range was very old already compared to regular Marines getting shiny new kits for both sides (DW+TS) less than a year ago.

        • Xodis

          I didn’t think it would happen either, but now they admitted to new vehicles and a Dreadnought for them….yeah all signs are pointing that direction.

          • BT

            DOH!

            Man, I still have Beaky Marines and old school lead Terminators. Man…that makes me sad. I even paid to have them re-painted.

          • Xodis

            There will always be a home for them under a Chaos flag 😀

          • BT

            Just have to strip them and re-paint them… dunno if that will happen. Eh, I am a Lamenters player anyways… so it is fitting to be kinda screwed like this. 😀

          • Farseerer

            The entire Marine range is just too new to stop supporting. I don’t think there is a single kit that isn’t a character that’s more than 5 years old.

            The Deathwatch models aren’t even a year old. Your beaky Marines are still valid m8

          • BT

            Rogue Trader Beaky marines? 😉 To be honest, they look terrible next to the current figs, the only thing left to them is the awesome looking Missile Launcher from those old plastic sprues. But I have been slowly expanding my collection, specially when 30k came out and those fantastic early armor kits for Heresy. I personally don’t care for most of the ‘marks’ past VI.

          • Xodis

            I was tempted in building a MKIV army of Red Scorpions since those are the only people that have them anymore. Now I dont have to though, which could be nice lol

          • BT

            Eh, you can always do Warp shenanigans and say a ship from the past just arrived in the current time stream when it came out of the warp. Or do both and get NuMarins and Mk IV. Might look interesting on the board.

            Do you do the traditional paint job? I saw someone paint them with white faceplates that looked really cool.

          • Xodis

            I was going to go with the traditional paint job, but I like your idea of adding the nuMarines to their roster. Hope the Chapter rules are fun, if so I might go ahead and commit. I have smaller forces of DA, Wolves, BA, and UM to use with my Deathwatch force as they come in to save the day.

          • Shawn

            Characadon’s use MkIV I believe.

          • Xodis

            Good to know, the special characters for them are totally cool enough to make a squad.

          • Farseerer

            I think it’s too early to know anything for sure right now.

            If this was GW of 2 years ago I’d be right with you but things have changed a lot since then.

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah, some people will say it never happened eve after it does, lol.

          • Shawn

            Greath, that doesn’t mean true-scale Landraiders? Where is everyone going to fit them?

          • Xodis

            Im sure Battlefoam will figure something out that costs about the same price lol

        • ZeeLobby

          Lol. They’re clearly never going to state it, but that doesn’t make it false.

      • BT

        God… I hadn’t thought about Terminator versions of these guys. They would have to totally change the fluff about Terminator armor again, because these guys would need brand spanking new Terminator armor to fit into. I was thinking the Centurion versions would be huge, and the Dreadknight even bigger… Terminator armored guys will be the size of Centurions.

        • ZeeLobby

          LoL. Yup. Get ready.

        • euansmith

          It seems highly improbably that Terminators could successfully navigate narrow corridors in their current armour. When these guys turn up, I think we are going to need a bigger Space Hulk.

  • euansmith

    They have weapon stats for Grenades. I wonder if they get to throw one per squad or one per dude? I’m guessing one per squad, as 10d6 attacks at 6″ seems a bit much for an undamaged Tac Squad.

    • Scatter 667

      its obviously a shortend data sheet, but we dont know the max size for the squad. for now its only 5.The frag granade stat is more than i expected, thought it would be d3, but hey i take it, pestcontol against the guard;-)

      • orionburn

        Actually they did say it’s a max of 5 at this point. Subject to change in the future of course.

        • Scatter 667

          oh didnt get the 5 man cap. did they say it on fb?

          • orionburn

            I’m just going by the profile. If you look at the Thousand Sons profile from last week it shows that you can add to the squad. With these guys it’s capped at 5. Won’t get as many shots, but you’re getting 10 wounds with 5 models compared to single wound marines, so that adds some durability http://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/cad271a4d6948f0502c81902c91c8dfd27b6fa44d4c0d02e2307fe8df6c449a3.jpg to them.

          • Scatter 667

            yeah, i know the 1k sons one. but as stated above, this one looks shortened and might just not contain all info…

  • ImmortalStrain .

    They also don’t have an option to increase unit size beyond 5 dudes! The Rubric Marines had that on the datasheet.

    • euansmith

      Oooh! Maybe this is the first step in GW moving the game is moving towards MSU?

      • ZeeLobby

        I mean 10 marines should be an unholy god-storm at this scale. I fully approve of the standard unit size going down to 5.

        • euansmith

          “Ünhöly Göd-störm”, there’s the title to my Metäl Album sorted.

  • Rob brown

    Heresy…. Bam!

    Where is a good old Amaranthian Inquisitor when you need one.

    In all seriousness, I’ve been using forgeworld Gal Vorbak and the Dark Vengeance chosen alongside normal chaos marines for ages without any sense of shame.

    The backstory is a load of Tosh though. Who is the Belisarius Crawl and how the hell did he get away experiementing on Spacemarine foetuses… I mean Geneseed.

    • Walter Vining

      Bobby Gs idea

    • BT

      And how can he survive 10 thousand years and not be a marine?

      • euansmith

        He’s like a hammer, you might change the head when it wears out and you might change the handle when it breaks, but it is still the same hammer. 😉

  • I just want to see them alongside regular marines for a size comparison

  • KingAceNumber1

    Whole lot of loyalist salt here.

    You know who loves each and every one of his soldiers and would never replace them with genetically superior duplicates?

    Papa Nurgle, that’s who.

    Information pamphlets available upon request, free crippling infection included with each consultation session.

    • Commissar Molotov

      Sez you. Didn’t you catch their comment about warp-powered Nurgle devotees? We’ll be getting our own “Nu-Plaguemarines.”

      • euansmith

        Nu-rglemarines?

      • Shawn

        Yes because once a disease has run it’s course it’s no good anymore. Time to reintroduce a virulent strain upon the masses!

  • Trey

    So a 5 man squad of Space Marine Captains with kraken bolts not bad..

    • Scatter 667

      only if they change the rule to everyone can throw grenades and not only one modell in the squad…

  • Walter Vining

    relieved, rifile……I cant take much more of this today

  • Arthfael

    And then it turned out Cawl had been a heretic for the last few millenia…

    • Xodis

      He is a puppet under orders from Fabius lol

    • Darth Bumbles

      No one mentions that he introduces himself as “Bellisarius A. Cawl” in formal occasions.

      Three guesses what the “A” is short for… (it’s not Abaddon).

      • Arthfael

        1- Alruphias.
        2- Aleph Raúl.
        3- Me. Because I am Alpharius.

        Now that you mention it, you could definitely fit one or two small Primarchs under those robes… And Roboute and him were always the best chums, weren’t they? BTW, who was the last person Alphie is known to have been seen by alive?

        I like where this is going… I will now start my little conspiracy cult and take over the internet. The Heresy did not happen. Tyranids don’t evolve, they were created like this. The Emperor was Keyzer Soze all along!

        • Darth Bumbles

          Bob never really liked Al’s tactics (thought they were both deceitful and wasteful IIRC).

          And Rogal Dorn was the last to see him alive, right before he Chainsworded his head off.

  • Agent OfBolas

    WOW! GW made it to introduce TRUE SCALE MARINES without killing old kits.

    Kudos for GW

    • davepak

      Well, depending on the costs, they may have killed old marines. we will see.

      If these (and their vehicles and dreds) are plainly better, and the cost is small – old marines are dead.

      if they are correctly point costed – then they are just new options. we shall see.

  • BT

    No CC weapon for the Sergeant too… and I have to be honest and say I am sad about seeing ATSKNF. God, I hope it isn’t the same as the last few editions.

    • Red_Five_Standing_By

      Not all weapons will be listed in the data slates.

  • Thalandor

    Nice marines, ugly name. Intercessor? Sounds like the name for some mental illness.

    • Red_Five_Standing_By

      Intercessor: a person who intervenes on behalf of another, especially by prayer.

      • euansmith

        Or by shooting people in the face with a 30″ range bolter. 😉

  • Crablezworth

    space marine space marines… I… this is getting old

  • carlisimo

    Given that scale creep continues to be a thing (Sisters of Silence are freakishly tall, for example), I think these are GW’s plan to make all Space Marines “true scale” in 10 years or so. By then, current marines will look to us like Rogue Trader marines do now. This is the kinder way to phase them in – give a fluff reason to run them both as different things and then merge their rules in a future edition once there’s a larger version of every marine unit out there.

    • Farseerer

      10 years – maybe.

      • BT

        How long has it been since the last creep to now? Not 10 years.

    • Iron Star

      Its a smarter, more warm and fuzy move

  • Rajak

    Ranged 30 bolt rifle. That is neat. But they are just tougher marines.

    • euansmith

      “If dey bleedz, we cun kill um.”

    • Shawn

      Yep, and GW could have simply said, “Ok, space marines have 2 wounds now.” I get why they’re doing this though. I think it would have been better to just start making the new ones and say you can still use your old marines. I mean what are they going to do in 10years? “Oh look, all the chapters are primaris marines. What happened to your not-so-tough buddies?” “What are you talking about? There’s never been primaris marines and these guys are still running around.”

  • Shenordak

    And why could we not just have had a redone space marine range without the horribly lame, 12-year old fluff? Seriously, they could have justified it simply with a new armour mark. And even if they do make them interesting by adding some dark flaws to them, I’m still pissed, as these are basically perfect both scale and ruleswise for representing how I guess almost every player has imagined the old Space Marines to be… and they had to make them THIS…

    Minis are great though

    • BT

      I know there have been hard-ons in GW for years about making Marines match the creators first thought about them. Grey Knights were the first step in that direction on what they thought marines really should be, so don’t be shocked that they guys make get even more potent psychic powers to boot or be Psy-sensitive.

      From what I have been told, they haven’t done it to this point because it would just blow game balance out of the water. I mean, look how bad Grey Knights were when they first came out? GW has been wanting to do 2 wound standard marines for 20 years…

      • Shenordak

        But they have done it! It’s just that they changed the names and fluff as well

        • Nilok

          I get the feeling that they want normal Space Marines to be more versatile and adaptable, while the Primaris Marines are more restricted in what they can take and do.

  • Red_Five_Standing_By

    I don’t get the hate for the new fluff.

  • Christie Bryden

    the moment Chaos begins to look good they bring out better space marines…

    ok grumbling aside if you read the entry on them they make mention that there are concerns about this, some chapters look like they may not accept them, the inquisition certainly isnt happy and some of the more unusual chapters there is concerns how it will affect the gene seeds, I suspect we may see more fracturing of the imperium as time goes on.

    • Red_Five_Standing_By

      I would love to see the Imperium fractured in three. You have Ultramar with Guilliman, the old Imperium lead by the Church (centered on Terra or Ophelia) and then you have the boondocks, the part of the Imperium on the far side of the Rift, which will be poorer, less well equipped and constantly hounded by predatory xenos armies and chaos.

      • Christie Bryden

        maybe not as much in game, but lore wise it does seem to be heading that way. It should also be noted the adeptus mechanicus seem to be on gullimans side, but its highly unlikly that the space wolves will be.

        • Red_Five_Standing_By

          Mechanically, I think everyone will just be Imperium (save for select units)

        • Xodis

          Definitely see the Space Wolves leading the “Guilliman is a Heretic” charge.

          • euansmith

            “Guilliman is a Heretic!”

            “Um, Svengar, Guilliman literally wrote the book on being a Loyal Space Marine.”

            “Vot are you sayin’? Are ve zee baddies?”

  • Shenordak

    I would have much prefered a simple scale creep. It’s less extreme than when theh updated the termies a decade ago.

  • Dan Wilson

    bwahahahaha I can’t wait to do some freehand polynesian tattoos on my NuMarine Carcharadons!

    • BT

      If we actually see any of them bare-headed. Well, at least you will have a bigger subject to work on to make it easier.

      • Red_Five_Standing_By

        The heads are the same size as current marines

        • BT

          Are they? So the marine inside isn’t bigger? So Terminators and Centurions will be the same size? Just bigger Mk X armor and that is what gives them the different stats?

          • Red_Five_Standing_By

            They said the Shoulder Pads and Heads were swappable with normal marine stuff but torsos, arms and legs were different sized (so not swappable without effort). .

          • Dan Wilson

            the current marines are “heroic scale” meaning the heads and hands are out of scale with the rest of the body. The nuMarines are more proportionately scaled, because the hands and heads are the same size, but the rest of the body is bigger.

  • blackbloodshaman

    All hail true scale Marines now time for true scale orcs

  • Cameron McArthur

    Bitter about 2 wound 2 attack w/ pistol and rending bolter as a TSons player.

    PL6 vs. PL8? Pound for pound NuMarine knockoff Rubrics come out ahead.

    I know it’s to early to tell but this doesn’t look like a good balance between similar units.

    • Farseerer

      We won’t know until the matched points come out though. The Power levels look like a massive approximation so most people who would be happy to play that way aren’t going to mind if it’s a bit unbalanced.

    • Red_Five_Standing_By

      I would not pay attention to the campaign points. They are generalized and not specific.

    • Xodis

      I disagree with that. Rubrics at PL8 also come with a Sorcerer, and they are only +PL6 for every 5 after which means that are equal really. Not to mention the advanced weaponry -2/-3 AP and Force Weapons are all taken into account.

      I think a bare Squad of Rubrics will demolish a Squad of Primaris, which they should having 2 more Power.

  • MarkD

    (1) Check out the FAQ before you freak out.
    (2) Apparently the Sergeants CAN carry a power weapon, since the model in the photo is wielding one…

    • grim

      Average games can only look at pictures and make uninformed belligerent statements.

    • Farseerer

      The base is bigger. Could be the Captain equivalent

    • Xodis

      I think thats a Captain. The Sergeant is probably the Red Helmet guy.

      • Thalandor

        Was thinking that too except it looks a bit too bland to be a captain.

        • Xodis

          Looks more stylish than the others with his shin decoration, maybe they are going for the less is more mentality.

  • Cristhian Mario Landa Rivera

    I don’t get it, how is that NOBODY IS EXCITED FOR THE RAINBOW WARRIORS RETURN?!

    THE SQUAT CLOCK IS RUNNING!!

  • Dan Dolan

    money move pure and simple. Terrible fluff. Their stat line should be the base marine. No need for super super humans. Already have options of specialized forces. Essentially its the same problems i had with centurions.

  • Darth Bumbles

    Weren’t the first generation of new Raven Guard in Deliverance Lost bigger than the originals

  • Nick Vaughn

    I would have rather these new marines form their own unique chapter that helps other imperial armies, versus them being able to join every single space marine army out there. It would make more sense to me from a fluff standpoint and it’s already kinda been done before with chapters like gray knights. They could be the super marines at the direct control of Guilliman.

    • Shawn

      I like that idea, but I’m not totally opposed to the way they are doing it. However, they just could have simply given all space marines an extra wound and then be done with it. They just want to sell more kits without “invalidating” all the older versions that everyone else already has.

      • Nick Vaughn

        Yeah that’s my fear in all this, and why I think we are on the slow path to existing marines getting phased out. It might not happen but who knows.

        Making just an all new beefy chapter that’s been developed over 10000 years makes way more sense to me than, “we have been cooking you all for a while and now it’s time for you all to report to your respective chapters, and yes, you do have to get on the ship headed for the rainbow warriors chapter over there”. It fragments the power.

        • Shawn

          Yep. And creates tension between super-super marine and super-marine. RG’s Civil War anyone?

    • Xodis

      Wouldn’t that be just like a Deathwatch++ though?

    • euansmith

      Unless Guilliman is using the Ubermarines to spy on the existing Chapters, to gauge their loyalty, and maybe assassinate their leaders if they turn against the Second Imperium?

  • James McGalliard

    Will be interesting to see if BA primaris can become DC

  • Marco Marantz

    “I’m liking what I’m seeing so far.”

    Oh really? I’m not. I was worried PSMs would be gross to the point of stupid. They are not. But by the flip side they aren’t really anything special either. IMHO GW screwed up with the Custodes stat line which i see as little more than pandering to loyalist players; custodes were never stronger, tougher space marines, they were always just the most highly skilled with gucci gear. Strength or Toughness 5 is a really rare stat even amongst marine characters. There was simply really no need for primaris marines except to sell a whole new range of space marines…who i recall sold more for that one faction than the entire fantasy line just prior to AoS.

  • This Dave

    This may solve a recurring “problem” with every edition of 40K. Since shortly after Rogue Trader came out Marines have been touted as genetically engineered superhuman warriors. But then when more and more armies are introduced Marines become more and more the average if not outclassed troops, with even regular humans even sometimes having better stat lines than these supposed super humans. The fluff says a single Marine could take on a dozen foes without breaking a sweat but on the table a single regular human could run up and brain them with a shovel on a fairly regular basis.

    Eventually a new edition of the game comes out with a new Marine Codex and all is good for a time until the power creep kicks in and suddenly no one wants to play vanilla Marines anymore because they’re outclassed again. Almost no one takes basic Marines in their armies if they can possibly avoid it.

    If GW keeps these guys as a step above everyone else’s troops then these Marines should act like the superhuman soldiers the fluff makes them out to be. It’s kind of annoying that the regular Marines are “obsolete” but that might make for some new drama and possibly a second Heresy down the line.

  • Nyyppä

    Apparently SM get what chosen should have been.

  • BlueRingedCephalopodofChaos

    C’mon Roboute, just make a next generation of Primarchs instead. It’d be more interesting. And it’s not like it didn’t go swimmingly the first time. Just tell them about Chaos. And give them mommies.

  • Alex Rowley

    No special weapons in the squads? not for any good reason other than “welp you still need tactical marines guys.” how foolish.