Goatboy’s 40k: Another Week of 8th Hints

Goatboy here again and we got another week of delicious 40k hints. Let’s look at the big hints we got this week and what this means.

The tidbits given have me very excited for this new edition and right now I am just chomping at the bits to see the full rules.  Its killing me that I can’t brew up new lists and think of how some my older armies might be good again.  This is the biggest frustration now as everything is pointing towards a June release so I am going to have to wait a bit longer to see how I will fight on the table top in the future.

Shooting

The shooting phase information came out right after my article and while it doesn’t have a ton of difference then before – it still gave some decent information.  We got direct info on not being able to shoot after advancing.  This is the same as before for the most part with just a few armies getting allowed to run and then shoot.  There also is a bit of information that says you can’t shoot if an enemy is within 1 inch of you unless – gasp you have a pistol.  This means all those Plasma Pistol they give out to every new plastic clamshell character actually has some use.  Cover goes towards the AOS model where they just effect the armor save of the model so I suspect the entire unit needs to be in the cover to actually get it like AOS.  You can’t shoot into combat and out of combat beyond pistols so that is a big difference from AOS.  The removal of snapfire mechanic for a flat -1 to shooting if you move with a heavy weapon is pretty interesting.  It at least means you can always move and shoot and don’t feel like you are wasting your heavy shots by needing a 6 to hit.  No info on how you hit flyers beyond some chatter that says their rules of flying high will be on their “data sheet” whenever that comes out.  Overall the shooting bits make sense and don’t seem to shift much from what we have played with before.

Charging

The Charge phase is up next and this isn’t a direct copy of AOS as well.  It would appear you need to target an enemy so that implies that if you shot at a unit first you most likely have to target them with your charge.  The big update is that if you get within an inch of the enemy you have engaged them.  This gives you an extra inch of assault so the average on a 2d6 is 7 so it would mean 8 inch charges will be the norm.  The cool bit is that when you activate the unit you can move them 3 inches and engage other units by pulling within an inch of them.  This will be something that will catch new players if they misplace their models and your assault squad gets to ignore a units overwatch.  Overall it is the same sort of mechanics and didn’t give a ton more info other then those small tweaks.  We only know charges get to go first but no info on bonus’s, weapon effects, etc that might be coming to the data sheet we are wanting to see.

Assault

The continued fight save with the locked in “to hit” rates is a pretty big change.  The ability to hide behind a high WS is gone and instead it is just replaced by that model hitting things really well.  I don’t know how good that is because we don’t know how many more wounds some of these bad ass fighters have now.  I suspect will get a direct bit of info on how Characters and IC’s will work soon.  Depending on how they will engage combat and interact will be important.  Speaking of combat – the addition of “battleshock” to 40k is a huge one.  If you haven’t played AOS, at the end of a player turn every unit that lost models needs to make a roll and adding the amount of models they lost in that turn.  They match it to their Leadership and every point they lose by there is a model lost in that unit.  If they unit has a Leadership of 7, they lose 5 guys, and roll a 6 they end up losing 4 more models from the unit.  Depending on how they deal with Leadership bubbles and other effects this could be very devastating to a unit.  I don’t expect things to last long once they start to lose models throughout the game.  It makes me think will see lots of bubble no battleshock or high leadership abilities.  This also leads me to think IC’s have been removed from the game as the tiny hint of a Dark Apostle ability really makes me think they don’t join units anymore.  Plus it would mean that a unit who takes a ton of battleshock damage won’t randomly lose a character in the unit that is not part of the initial unit.  We’ll see if they hint more about it.

Army Construction

The final bit of rules info they dropped has me very excited as it finally gives me a hint of how to build armies.  The lose of Formations is a good thing as they really caused a lot of issues.  I remember playing an event where I had 3 formations without any hint of “building” an old force org style army.  I was lucky that my faction would allow me to do it while a ton of others just couldn’t build the type of armies that you need to do well on the competitive scene.  It also means most of the broken 7th edition things were removed and leaves us with a more locked in army building system.  They say there are 14 different force org types listed and more will be coming when they start to release more army books.  I am surprised they didn’t do the AOS method which has basic Force Org you have to use but formations can count for “choices” within the force org.  IE troop choices in a formation would be troop choices for the force org.  Still this all east feels like a concentrated effort to bring some kind of overarching balancing to the armies.  The hint that command points will be heavily used and needed to compete makes me think the basic force orgs will be most likely used.  I guess it depends on how good the command points end up being but any form of ability that lets you control rerolls and generate effects should be a strong thing.  I just hope we don’t see anything “free” or as devastating as some of the old formation abilities.

 

Overall the hints and bits has me ready for this new edition.  I also hear a lot of events are excited to move to 8th edition as well.  There is nothing worse then trying to play 2 different versions of the game depending on where you are at in the tournament scene.  I know a lot of events are ready for a balanced rule set that lets everyone’s army work.  This means every game is a challenge and it comes down to the general versus the strength of the army/list.

~ Until next time – roll 6’s.

  • Big Fat Fred

    8th may just get me back into 40K after many years in the wilderness.

    • euansmith

      I read the start of your comment, “8th May”, and though, “OMG, is the new edition coming out today?!”

      • Big Fat Fred

        I’m sorry to raise your hopes and then cruelly dash them. Mu ha ha ha ha.

        • Gunther Clone C

          Chaos, in it’s purest form, if there is such a thing.

      • EnTyme

        See? If you Brits would just structure your dates like proper American English (MM/DD), you wouldn’t have this confusion :p

        • Muninwing

          yeah, who cares if its in ascending order, it’s still just right because it’s how we do it!

  • euansmith

    I’m guessing that the Space Marines, who, quite famously, shall know no fear, will have some Stormcast Eternal style methods of avoiding Battleshock. Quite fluffy if they do.

    • Fergie0044

      I dunno if they’ll avoid it – the GW article on morale did say it “will apply to almost every unit”. Its not just for running away but is meant to cover the myriad of reasons why someone could no longer fight.
      Probably they’ll be more resistant to it than most other factions, like a re-roll or something?

      • euansmith

        The Stormcast suffer battleshock unless buffed by a character. I could see this being an ability for the Chaplain, “I don’t care if you are dying in agony, Battlebrother, kill the enemy!” 😉

  • Djbz

    I was kinda dissapointed with the Ws changes.
    The highest Ws only advantage has been hitting on 3+’s and has been practically useless defensively sice 3rd edition came out.
    I was hoping they’d finally make it so that super high Ws models (such as a dark eldar succubus) wasn’t hit by a standard space marine as easily as they hit an Ork boy.

  • jasonsation

    Has it been stated anywhere about shooting while in melee like in AoS? I know it’s a problem a point of contention for some in AoS.

    • Djbz

      One of the GW articles said that pistols (and only pistols) could be fired at enemies a unit is locked in combat with.

  • Grieux

    All this 8th new gameplay and storyline advancement has me more pumped out for 40k than Horus Heresy which hadn’t happened in more than 4 years.

  • David

    Formations is one of the main things that separated 40k from other systems and their loss is a disaster they also helped balance some factions such daemons who struggled to compete without

    I’m not saying some weren’t individually to powered but they wereally a great way of ensurring fluff based compositions (within formations) and the toolbox nature of the game which is 40k”s greatest USP

    • Simon Chatterley

      Their loss is a disaster???

      I think we’ve been playing different 7th editions. Formations were everything that was wrong with the game.

      • EnTyme

        Well that’s just, like, your opinion, man. Big Lebowski quotes aside, the problem with formations was that they were free and not everyone had them. Formations could have been balanced if GW had tried. AoS formations are (mostly) fine with only a couple outliers which are expecting nerfs in GHB 2. I agree with AEZ. We’ll probably get AoS-style formations before long, which is a good thing.

        • euansmith

          That quote really tied your comment together, man.

      • generalchaos34

        agreed, formations basically took the core problems with the 7th ed ruleset and turned them to 11.

    • AEZ

      Well if balance is good formations won’t be neccesary. And I think 40K will get AoS style formations where you pay points for them anyway.. which will make the formations better balanceable(?) too.

    • Farseerer

      Yes, because Ravenwing armies rolling around with a free re-rollable 2++ jink was not a disaster. Or War Convocations. Or the hundreds of points of free stuff the Gladius variants gave you.

      Formations are a good idea in theory, they just are terrible for the game overall when only a handful of factions get really powerful ones forcing the tournament meta torwards extremely boring variants of Ynnari/Eldar vs Tau vs SM Gladius vs. DA Jinkfests vs. Summoning psychic spam Tzeench

      Let me guess, you have one or more of the above and are worried you will have to put a bit of thought into building a list with counters to more than the limited number of lists you see now.

      • Muninwing

        if you’re worried about the RW jink (which means they forego shooting, and cannot use it when a weapon ignores cover) instead of a ton of more overpowered stuff, perhaps your focus is a bit off?

        i’d say that major changes to Eldar in the last two editions (waveserpent shenanigans in 6th, scatterlaser and D in 7th, warpspider mechanics, and the wraithknight in general) outweigh whatever bone the DA players finally got

        not all the problems were related to formations.

        • Farseerer

          Ah i know Ravenwing aren’t top tier, just very very unfun to play with/against.

          If your faction isn’t great in combat and doesn’t have much access to ignore cover then you pretty much have lost before deployment.

          To me it’s a very good example of how the idea of formations was twisted from play something fluffy for a small bonus to huge buffs for no reason.

    • ZeeLobby

      Er… A bunch of other games have “formations”, theme lists in WMH, platoons in bolt action, etc. I mean formations were extremely limited detachments with bonus rules. Assuming the new detachments provide command points for bonus, you can really recreate what you had then. All you’re losing is the “fluff” block behind each formation (which was usually just a paragraph about how awesome it would be to buy those models, lol)

      • euansmith

        The Allies Matrix in Bolt Action is too limiting 😉

        • ZeeLobby

          hehe.

        • Matthew Pomeroy

          some necrons would really add fluff to the german army! 😀

    • Brettila

      I’m not the only one who believes you need better ventilation when you use super glue…

    • Muninwing

      formations were definitely one of the things that separated out 40k… but not often well in comparison.

      1. the “freebie” formations (get free vehicles, for example) became stupid advantages and invalidated point-cost balancing mechanics

      2. the “new rule” formations that granted inaccessible abilities — such as first-turn deepstrike-and-assault — became overdone and kind of terrible

      Had formations cost points, not given freebie models/units away, not broken earlier ‘you cannot…” rules, and worked well integrated within the system instead of tacked on, then maybe i’d miss them.

      i like the idea that there are many kinds of detachments that are not specific per army, and i think that if they can reasonably combine a number of things — the command points, warlord trait, points costs, and HQ choices as roles and therefore influencing the other aspects — then they will have the ability to tweak army strength based on command points alone

      imagine for a moment a SM army… led by a commander, a chaplain, and a librarian will all be different and fight differently — they would be assigned different missions and have different ways to achieve goals. so they should also have different constructs of command. a commander might be more likely to be found at the head of a traditional company, whereas a librarian might join specialists… and by doing so each could access different special abilities (command traits now). or defensible vs offensive.

      more options without adding much (and with the ability to take more tailored choices too)

  • chris harrison

    Orks should have some sort of exemption to battleshock if the unit is still big enough, sort of like the rules for their unit size counting as their LD in previous editions. But I haven’t played with the most recent Orks codex so maybe that’s gone too.

    • Curtis Baldwin

      To make a battleshock test, roll a dice and add the number of models from the unit that have been slain this turn. For each point by which the total exceeds the highest Bravery characteristic in the unit, one model in that unit must flee and is removed from play. Add 1 to the Bravery characteristic being used for every 10 models that are in the unit when the test is taken.

      This is how AoS does battleshock and if you notice the larger the unit the higher the leadership bonus. This helps orcs and goblins who have low leadership. Plus their warscrolls have banners that buff their leadership under certain circumstances. So it is harder initially to remove models from horde units with battleshock in the beginning of the game but as wounds add up bravery goes down and more models are likely to flee.

      • Shawn Pero

        Bosspoles will likely allow you to reroll battleshock tests or something similar

      • chris harrison

        Interesting. Never played AOS, would rather die by picking my nose too energetically. if they do the same thing to 40K, I’m out permanently.

    • Raven Jax

      I think Mob Rule could be very flavorful if it was well done and wasn’t the “Orks do more damage to themselves than the opponent” rule it is right now.

  • backoos

    Who is goatboy and why should I care about his 40k opinions?

    • Muninwing

      who are you and why do your opinions matter?

  • Mourz

    Meh, why dont we just flip a coin and call it good? There is no strategy in this game… Just dice rolling. I was hoping there would be fixes in the 8th ed.