Goatboy’s 40K: The Rules Mother Load Arrives

Goatboy here and it looks like this weekend saw a full leak of the 40K 8th’s new rules. Let’s talk.

Of course it isn’t the full rules as each individual unit has its own plethora of rules that interact with the simpler and easier new edition of 40k.  Now of course simpler does not make it less exciting, it just allows you a better avenue to generate new customers by letting the game settle in their minds easier.  I have never been a fan of overly complex rule sets as while sure you can have rules that generate outcomes for any situation but do you really need that level of detail?  Strategy and skill come from a game that is simple enough to allow for quick play but detailed enough to let you generate outcomes beyond just having the better gun, unit, and army.

This is what excites me the most about the new edition.  It didn’t feel like a completely new game beyond a few things like no more IC’s and an overhaul and return to the older style “psychic phase”.  What I mean is there isn’t a pool to generate, control, and abuse. There is also a decent reworked assault phase as well that feels similar but different enough to hopefully warrant a return of decent assault armies.  The big overall rework down the entire line is also a great thing as everyone will be on the same page as we all get ahold of our armies rules.  Let’s go over some of the things I saw in the initial leak and what I think.

Mortal Wounds

Mortal wounds are pretty interesting as they are like D weapons but don’t completely murder your face.  They also break the whole only wounding a single model and will splash out into the unit themselves.  This is a pretty big difference from the norm we see in the new 40k with weapons doing “X” wounds per shot.  But models are pulled per shot – so while mortals spill out regular ones only kill per amount of shots they produce.  I am alright with this as Mortals break the overall wounding roll and since ignore all saves beyond some extra fleshy grossness or powerful toughness.  Its one of the things I saw from AOS that could have really helped 7th edition but I am happy to see a new rework instead of trying to band-aid what I thought was a pretty rough set of rules.

Codexes On The Way?

The chatter from GW is that there are 15 more codexes in the works to help get everyone up to snuff with Command Point usage, other rules, and a better special feeling for their army instead of just using the combo book for your rules.  I am really interesting in seeing the price point on the FW book but my first event with 8th isn’t allowing them so I am happy to wait a bit to see them.  The Leviathan rules has me jonesing for that kit so I am happy I don’t need it right away.  I heard small bits and pieces about Warhammer world with the big feeling is everyone’s army looks good, feels like their army should, and lets you play with your collection versus just playing with what is supposed to be good.

RUN RUN RUN!

The movement rules are a bit of a bummer as I did like the run move in the shooting phase versus smashing them together into one phase.  Though the power of assault weapons and how you can go full bore into moving as fast as you can for some armies has me excited.  I am sure there are a ton of “advance” and still charge units in the game.  It also seems like the turn limit is set for 5 turns so I suspect everything to be faster, deadly, and just a better time spent game.  There is nothing worse then spending 2 and a half hours getting beat up by 500+ extra free points your opponent had.

Speaking of points – we haven’t as seen a ton of it beyond a small little leak in how armies are built.  The points look a bit weird and I am wanting to compare them to the listed power levels to try and generate a scheme GW might have used.  The power levels are an interesting set of rules in building armies and if there is some bit of connection that stitches them together then we have a good way to judge new units.  It looks like points are left off the initial data slate like the AOS stuff so if power levels give a good idea we can actually test “leaked” stuff a bit more.

Psychics

The lack of units ability to Deny the Witch unless they have that ability is a bit of a bummer.  I am hoping we see a better reigning in of Mind spells but with Death stars effectively nerfed it means there is less of a “worry”.  But who knows what kind of “blessings” units will have and how they will set up other spells for the army.  I suspect each Faction will get a list of spells they can assign out to their casters as well as some locked in benefits for their own librarians/sorcerers/mind bullet jerks.  The Ork jump spell sounds awesome to me and I hope we have other flavorful spells.  All I know is the Blood Angels better have every spell have Blood, Angel, or Darkness in all their spells.

I had a buddy at Warhammer World and he said games are pretty dang bloody.  I think this means will see a heck of a lot of bubble wrap coming back especially with being able to pick wounds from anywhere in the unit.  This gives you a ton of ability to control the battlefield, bait your opponent, and deny so many things.  It is an extra level of complexity that will determine the good from the bad players.  The buddies who jumped to AOS love the fact the game is heavily defined by movement and I expect this new 40k to be the same thing.  There will need to be bodies in the way to allow you enough time to keep your enemies horde of Nids, Orks, and Berserkers at bay.

Datasheets

The data sheets leaked from the Death Guard set look pretty good.  The Bile Drone is going to be a problem with the ability to always leave combat and still keep shooting.  Its guns seem pretty brutal and its close combat is pretty rough too.  Plus it looks pretty tough with a large amount of wounds, multiple saves, and just being a pain in the butt.  The pics for the Death Guard seem to show Mortarion himself with what looks like Nurgle Maulerfiends.  In fact I just want to see Maulerfiends as I am sitting on some kit bits to throw together some Nurgle ones.  Heck I have 3 I have painted for other stuff too.  I just moved so I finally got a better set up to show case all my models.  It also let me see that I have way too much stuff.  When I get my walls covered in pictures I will take some better pics to show case my cave.  The Plague Marines and the Leader both look promising too.  I was able to look at a painted Plague Marine and Primarius Marine and those kits are pretty friggin amazing.  They are huge, full of detail, and really showcase how GW just kicks butt with plastic kits.

I’m Excited!

I can’t tell you the last time I was this excited for a release.  I feel like the old days when I got back into the game, got excited to play a game or two, and felt those jitters whenever going to a big event.  I remember getting ahold of some Chaos Space Marine rumors and seeing the power of Lash of Submission.  I remember seeing the initial Grey Knights and thinking in ways to make some kind of counts as nonsense to match the nuttiness of my Space Goats.  Its been awhile since I was excited about rules instead of just new models and it will be great to play a game that feels like everyone has a chance to win with their favorite models.

~What do you think of the revealed rules?

  • el_tigre

    “There is nothing worse then spending 2 and a half hours getting beat up by 500+ extra free points your opponent had.” Opponent? Really? Who were you playing, Yobtoag the backwardly handsome?

    • Dan Brugman

      Don’t decry the great name of Yobtoag!! He who lurks at the threshold of the table!! Iä! Iä! Yobtoag fhtagn! Ph’nglui mglw’nfah Yobtoag BoLS wgah’nagl fhtagn!

      • Matt Halkos

        Isn’t it yobtaog?

        • Dan Brugman

          Look at you trying to rely on Euclidean spelling

  • Crevab

    Any word on missions? Cause unless they’ve made big changes there, that set game length is going to see the return of fast armies having a massive advantage last turn

    • MarcoT

      Having guaranteed last turn which you can plan on is a nice balance to guaranteed first turn. Going second should have an advantage too.

    • Randy Randalman

      There’s scoring all throughout the game, and objectives aren’t suddenly worth more in the last turn like in 5th or 6th edition. GW specifically wanted to remove that as a means to victory.

  • Crevab

    Heh, I much prefer Run being added to the Movement phase and Deny the Witch not being for everyone

    • benn grimm

      I think that’s how a lot of people played it anyway tbh, (run moves in movement phase) so makes sense.

    • Red_Five_Standing_By

      It never made sense to me to move models in the move phase, then move them again in the shooting phase. Running them while moving them makes more sense.

  • Luca Lacchini

    Template-less weapons still bug me sick. But I’m willing to trust the common opinion that at the table they work as intended, it’s just gut feeling.
    The fact that armored vehicles don’t have a facing anylonger (or any rule that we know of) I find just stupid. I know that it’ll make the game a tad more complex and cause stops in gameplay, but I like my Demolisher Leman Russ to have a strong front, robust sides, and vulnerable rearside. Pun intended.
    I still think that Primaris are scale creep and power creep ham-fisted into the game and community (with great sculpts); no, the cheap trick “they’re grounded into vague and inconsequential references in the fluff” doesn’t work on me, sorry. Try harder.

    Pretty much any other thing I find ranging from good to at least interesting. Overall, very positive about this edition.

    • Nesred22 .

      Is there any kind of limit to how much/often a vehicle can pivot during a move? And do weapon arcs still matter?

      • Luca Lacchini

        I like to limit my worries to things I know.

        • Nesred22 .

          Lol sorry, I don’t actually know how it works currently in 7th either ;D

        • Randy Randalman

          Except you’ve done nothing but express worries on things you’ve admitted you don’t know yet, certainly haven’t played, and/or are “gut feelings”. And no, you aren’t the exception that has a gut that knows better.

          • Josh Heinz

            Except, he didn’t?
            Concern 1: Template weapons. He trusts them, for now.
            Concern 2: Vehicle facing; it’s gone, some people don’t like that, and find it an unfortunate loss.
            Concern 3: Primaris Marines are representative of powercreep in the new edition. Again, many people agree with this. This might be the only thing we don’t know for certain that he listed.
            Also, their fluff is dumb and weakly justified. That is absolutely known by anyone with a cursory understanding of the fluff.

      • Rob brown

        I don’t know about the weapon arcs but no point of the vehicle’s Hull can move further than its move characteristic in inches.

        So pivoting costs movement and no more moving forward and then pivoting 90 degrees to get extra movement. This will affect some vehicles more than others.

        • Koonitz

          This was also true in 7th Ed. I believe an FAQ clarified that no individual point on the hull can move more than the stated move distances.

          This came out to prevent the abuse of Necron Ghost Arks (and other long vehicles) getting a full 2-3″ extra movement on the first turn by deploying sideways.

        • wibbling

          This cheat was never permissible. Such was carried out by extrmely poor players who were simply cheating.

    • GrenAcid

      It wass all nice and dandy with Imperoim and their brick shaped vehicles but play some xenos and you find it rly dumb and clunky at best. I miss tactical options of flanking a tank but overall im happy there will be less rule abuse with WAAC players and such.

    • benn grimm

      That’s funny, because all of your sentences bar the last two tell a different story.

      • Luca Lacchini

        One thing I’m not sure, one thing I can live with even if I dislike it, one thing I can ignore because I really dislike it.
        Not willing to cry “the sky is falling!” just because of them.

        Everything else is fine (so far). I feel alright, and think it makes sense.

        • benn grimm

          No need to jump from one extreme to the other. Your concerns seem reasonable, not sure why the disclaimer.

          • ZeeLobby

            Probably just a preemptive warning to avoid hater labeling or fanboy attack. It’s hard to criticize without being labeled these days.

          • Crevab

            His preventative measures were insufficient

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah. It never really works unless it’s blind praise, but it helps.

          • benn grimm

            I guess it works both ways.

          • AEZ

            As it should be after the last 2 years here on BOLS.

          • ZeeLobby

            Well 2 years of a bad game totally justifies it in my opinion. 8th is still an unknown in many cases. Could be good. Could be bad. Doesn’t mean everyone must love everything they’ve heard just because they’ve been abused for 2 years.

          • AEZ

            I don’t mind critical, I just meant people being critical of critism here on BOLS is deserved.
            Too much screaming and yelling about a game people don’t play (anymore – explayers seem the worst) and they just want to burn to the ground. To much screaming and yelling based on nothing etc. This is not against you btw.. your posts (usually) include at least some reasoning and arguments.

          • ZeeLobby

            I just don’t think there’s as many of these comments as you seem to be implying though. I mean most people seem to post valid criticisms. Theyre guaranteed not the way everyone feels about the game or it’s mechanics, but it doesn’t mean they’re just screaming and yelling. There are def some, but no more than the number of Randy’s that run around attacking. I’d say BoLS is actually pretty level headed. People just tend to gravitate towards comments they can fight with regardless of their prevalence.

          • Shawn

            Well, Instead of wounds on vehicles, they could have simply called them hull points or armor integrity. In any event, that’s how I’ll view it going forward. I’ll miss templates too, because it was kind of unique, but also helped visualized that explosion a bit better.

    • MarcoT

      I wasn’t happy about facing either, until I remembered all these vehicles making 180 turns just to get their facing right. Looking dumb in the proces. I prefer a more cinematic look even if at the cost of a flavor-ful rule.

      • AircoolUK

        Maybe, finally, armies have advanced their anti-armour missiles to explode above the target, or invented squash head shells (still used by the glorious British Army) which don’t care about armour strength; doesn’t matter how thick the bell, it’s still gonna ring when hit with a massive hammer.

  • mrbleak

    Deny the Witch for everyone made no sense. Mages are supposed to dispel magic.
    Imagine some average farmer just swating away Dumblerdore´s fire-storm. Yeah, ridiculuos just like DtW for everyone is.

    • Rob brown

      It makes sense but it means that psykers will become prime targets I think. If you have a psyker it can do a lot of damage easily unless the enemy has a psyker too in which case 24″ range on deny the witch and only having to beat the casting score means stopping magic will be common for psykers.

      If things like special rules, Adamanite Will, librarian hoods etc increase this chance of denying then getting magic off could become very difficult for psykers – as it sounds it looks like approx 50% chance of getting a power off if the enemy has a psyker in range. I sense psyker heavy armies with snipers being very effective.

      • Malisteen

        Eh, theoretically it could balance out. If only one side has a psyker they can do stuff, but you paid to do that stuff. If both sides have psykers then they can prevent each other from doing stuff, but then both sides paid points to not do stuff.

        Mostly just depends on whether psykers are priced appropriately for what they can do if they’re free to act. If they are, everything will be fine. If psykers are given a discount based on the possibility of getting dispelled, then problems will crop up when only one side has them.

    • Diagoras

      Always was a bit confused by that.

      “Look out! Warpflame!”

      “Nah. Don’t think I believe in that. I didn’t see anything.”

      “Huh. Guess you’re right.”

    • Shawn

      Well, call it natural resistance, or a knack of surviving against magic, while wizards/psykers have the means to outright make it disappear. That’s how most rpgs that have spell casters work. Of course, the more powerful the magic, the harder it is to survive against, or dispel.

  • Karru

    A mixed feeling really, mostly tipping on the positive side of the spectrum.

    It is unfortunate that it currently looks like GW is doing the usual “make everyone more powerful” rather than the more wiser option, which is to weaken those that are powerful and bring them to the level with everyone else.

    There is also the intentional power creep that is the Guilmarines. GW wants to sell them and GW is known to play favourites, especially when it comes to something they really want to sell. They know that the best way to sell new Marines to old players in great amounts is to make sure that they are extremely powerful, basically bordering on the broken side of things.

    The final gripe I have with the coming edition is Blasts and how worthless they are now. Since it is shots and not hits, it makes vast majority of them absolutely pointless to take over most weapons that get solid amount of hits. There is only few exceptions where you would take a Blast, but that’s about it. The real problem for me comes from the fact that they could have done it so much better. Give blast weapons certain amount of shots, in this example, we use the Battle Cannon. Heavy 1 (2D6) and everything else is the same. You roll to-hit like you would with a regular weapon, such as a Lascannon. If you hit, you roll the amount of hits indicated by the number in brackets. If you miss, you roll half of that, so 2D6 would turn into D6 and D6 hits (which would be small blasts) turn into D3 hits. This indicates two things, first is the ability of the gunner. If the gunner hits with the weapon, it means that the shell landed where it was intended so the explosion itself would do damage by itself within the unit or against the thing it got shot at. Second is the shrapnel and the blast itself. Even if the shell misses, it still has a potential to hit something with high probability, but the amount of hits is more limited. This would have made 1000x more sense and made sure that blasts were useful in the coming edition, now not so much.

    Beyond those, I’m pretty positive about the coming edition. Those are something that our group will just house rule and none of us actually have any interest on Guilmarines, so those won’t affect us really.

    • Red_Five_Standing_By

      GW has to power creep, I think, because the audience does not respond to “reasonable power levels”. I very much think this is why GW went from making 7th edition codexes enjoyable but not crazy to wildly insane – because people were not buying models or codexes.

      • David Leimbach

        Yep. The begining of 7th ed was like “oh they’re finally balancing the new books, nothing exessive over the last codex”.
        Then suddenly. Formations! Free units! Free points!!

    • 301stFeinminsterArmoured

      You did call it right about the risk of Spamming Interceptor Squads. I can see someone doing an Outrider Detachment centered on them, a Jump Chaplain, and some dedicated anti-Armour, like Centurions or Land Raiders being pretty rough to deal with.

  • AEZ

    About multiple wounds:
    If I have a unit that inflicts 4 unsaved wounds that do D3 damage each against models with 2 wounds. How does this resolve: If I roll a 1, 1, 2 and 3 damage. Can the defender say : first 1 damage on a model, then the 2 damage on the same model (dead), then 1 damage on new model and then 3 damage on that model (dead) = 2 dead models? Or is it 3 kills a model, 2 kills a model and 1x 1 kills the last model? Apparently 3 damage never hurts more than one model so you can’t just add it all up and say 3 dead models and 1 wound on another. Or do you have to do the damage roll one after the other and resolve it that way?

    • Andrew B

      You need to roll the Damage value for D2/D3/D6-Damage wounds one at a time and apply the damage to any model that has already taken wounds before choosing any unwounded models to take damage. This is why the core rules say to resolve attacks one at a time. Obviously this isn’t neccessary for weapons that do a fixed amount of damage.

      • AircoolUK

        At least it’s really quick for single wound models. No point in rolling for damage unless is triggers some other rule.

      • AEZ

        Hmm ok, that makes for quite a bit of separate rolls. Personally I’d just have gone AoS style on that so there is less delay if this happens.

        • Koonitz

          Remember that this was the same thing in 7th Ed. It’s why we sometimes have to roll armour saves individually or a small number at a time. Or penetrating hits on multi-vehicle squadrons one at a time to see if an explodes result comes up (allowing further pens to carry over sooner).

          • AEZ

            The word we while not neccesarily incorrect might indicate you think I play 40K.. but I don’t. But the fact the rule was messy in 7th doesn’t mean it should be kept messy in 8th anyway 😀

          • Koonitz

            It’s a method of avoiding confusion and abuse. A minor delay compared to all the other streamlining done.

            You may wish, then, to introduce a house rule method of being able to roll them all together while still determining which one technically came ‘first’.

            For instance: If you have 4 ‘d3 damage’ to roll, roll them together. Resolved first to last by: Left to right, top to bottom (in case two left/right are tied) as the dice lay after being rolled.

        • Red_Five_Standing_By

          If you did not force people to stack damage on already damaged models, then you would run into something like 5th edition where units filled with multi-wound models would rise up in terms of playability because they would be much harder to kill compared to single wound units.

          • AEZ

            Didn’t say I wanted that. That is a really lousy mechanic. Just wanted wounds to stack and then remove models based on that at the end.

    • 301stFeinminsterArmoured

      roll after wounds are allocated, and saves are taken.

  • Dalinair

    Cover saves only +1 none of this 4+ cover save nonsense anymore, I feel bad for armies that needed them!

    • Koonitz

      Weak armour save armies got not a little bit shafted by this against high pen shots. As well, some armies (especially those with a 6+ save standard (orks/gaunts) are going to get, at best, a 5+ save from cover instead of 4+ from ruins.

      At least the “Must take in guard armies” aegis wall may not be as ‘must take’ as it used to be….

      I also point out that “going at initiative 1 if charging through cover” is gone. Charging units will hit to full effect (and still first), even through thick rubble or over that aegis wall.

  • Hawt Dawg

    Knight spam!

    Nuff talking.

    • benn grimm

      Lol.

    • Ryan Miller

      1000000000000000000 flashlights can kill them!

    • 301stFeinminsterArmoured

      4 does not qualify as Spam. Now, maxing out at 11, that is more rightly called Spam.

      Wonder if you can still take Stormsurges in 3s.

  • AircoolUK

    tl;dr – new 40K rules are influenced by the logical process in which video games are constructed, and can be altered (patched) quickly and easily without disruption to other aspects of the game via the keyword/datasheet system and online feedback loop.

    New 40K is what I like to call a ‘modern game’. Not just because of the way the rules are presented and the design philosophy behind the game, but the level of support the game receives online.

    We’ve seen that there’s going to be an errata forum and constant updates via a feedback loop alongside articles and guides from the Warhammer Community site and Warhammer TV.

    Why do I call it a modern game? They’ve taken a lot of design cue’s from several decades of video game design. Particularly in the early days of PC gaming, memory restrictions limited the design of PC games, and many took their ideas from board games and tabletop games, producing such classics as UFO: Enemy Unknown and the Battle Isle series. With the release of Dune 2 and the subsequent Command & Conquer series, real time games shoved most turn based games into the background.

    However, there’s been a resurgence of turn based games in the last few years (even though they never went away), once again ignited by the XCOM series. Now, turn based games and tabletop style games, along with card games have now become popular again.

    Due to the way video games have to be designed, they make excellent templates for tabletop games. You can see the influence in AoS and 40K with the keyword system and bespoke unit rules. This allows a very tight core set of rules and a massive, almost unlimited depth and breadth to the game via keyword interaction. It also allows rapid fixes to balance or rules issues as each unit has its own rules.

    This is why I call new 40K a modern game. With design influences coming from the logical build of video games, and the feedback loop via the internet and stores, GW have laid the foundations for a successful ruleset.

    • mrbleak

      The New 40k is basically a simplyfied 4th-5th edition, not modern It´s a step forward by grabbing from way behind.

      • ZeeLobby

        Yeah. No real revolutionary mechanics. Would have loved to see them go to alternating activations or something. Not that it has to be novel, but it would have been interesting to see them try to blaze trails.

        • AEZ

          Alternate activation.. like you one unit, me one unit? I suppose it’s another mechanic but seems very gamy to me, not neccesarily less realistic.. but certainly not better either. Activations based on initiative might make most sense.. but not even that much 😀

          • markdawg

            In Bolt Action each unit has a die of one color placed in a bag your opponent does the same. These dice are drawn out of the bag one by one.

            If your die is chosen they you may give your unit an order to run, go Down,(take Cover), Advance move and shoot, Rally, take a test to remove pins (a suppression mechanic), Ambush sit and wait till someone moves then fire. Last but not least fire.

            This Mechanic really helps set up the fog of war it was innovative when it was released.

            Things like this is what I would have liked to see.

            Letting someone move shoot assault their entire army before you get to move a model is really lame.

          • ZeeLobby

            I mean initiative or alternative make WAY more sense then you go I go. I mean in how many real battles does one side stand and wait for the other to shoot at them and then respond? Many new games use one of those two systems and it’s a lot more fun. much better than waiting an hour while your opponent does his turn, just waiting to maybe take saves.

            I mean one of the biggest issues in 6th/7th was the ability to basically alpha your opponent off the table. Alternating would have helped with that.

          • Ryan Miller

            How many real battles took place with wildly missized people on a 4×6 tabletop?

          • ZeeLobby

            Doesn’t change the fact that both systems are more representative of real-time combat simulation than I go you go. Which is the relevant topic of the argument. But good effort! 😀

          • kloosterboer

            I have no illusions to WH40K being a ‘representative of a real-time combat simulation’.

            It would be a mistake to assume this is the intention of this game system. Or that it ever will be.

            Enjoy it for what it is, not what it isn’t. I’m paraphrasing, of course.

          • ZeeLobby

            That’s just plain dandy. I didn’t say that they’re equally realistic though. I mean people play checkers, which is pretty boring for me. Still doesn’t mean games can’t be made better or worse. I’ve just never heard anyone say alternating activations made a game worse. Everyone seems to love being involved the whole game through

      • AircoolUK

        Whoa…was that insult directed at me?

        I’ve never done games design. However, I did work in the Tactical Analysis and Adversary Studies Element in the RAF for most of my career (now retired) and was one of the Chairs for the annual UK Tactical Analysis Team for the 5 Eyes community and the annual Combined Qualified Weapons Instructor course, now known as Exercise COBRA WARRIOR.

        So, when I have something to say, you sit down and listen, ok?

        • ZeeLobby

          Second part of his comment was def uncalled for. I still wouldn’t call this a “modern game”. Not sure it even moved in that direction. It’s definitely based on some pretty basic and ancient mechanics. The one thing you could probably claim is true of the video game comparison is their new willingness to patch their system.

    • markdawg

      How can a game with an IGOUGO mechanic be called modern? It still seems suck in the past. Is it better than what you had sure.

      Have fun sitting through that 30 minute shooting phase. 🙁 while you haven’t even moved a model yet.

      • AircoolUK

        I was talking about the keyword and datasheet system, aspects of which are used in many games. I’m not calling 8th a revolution in gaming, but I am calling it a modern game with specific design and support principles.

      • PRAY FOR MOJO

        Alternating moves have been around forever. Neither mechanic is more modern than the other.

    • Jabberwokk

      Agreed.

      It is an interesting thing….the balance between imagination and logic. Though I’ve always believed the best way is a house of imagination built on a foundation of solid logic.

  • Jaunito

    If Games Workshop had took a carp (y’know, like the fish) on a piece of paper and smeared it around for a while (like 3 years or so) it would still be better than the current state of the game. Literally anything would be better than how it is now. My FLGS is more excited about 40k (so basically… willing to give it a slight chance) than it has been in YEARS. Dont screw it up GW. It’s your last chance.

    • euansmith

      A Carp? That’s a handsome fish. I thought they’d started with one of these guys.

      http://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c57984c2ede39c8aae70a861543be063bc9218e892f7cebe80409db08c281d3f.jpg

      • Porty1119

        One would certainly think so given the clusterduck (like the bird, clustered) that was the last edition or two.

        • euansmith

          A “clusterduck” 😀 I imagine something like a Rat-King, only with ducks. FUBAR indeed.

    • LeroyJenkinss

      7th is fun if you play with fun people. And are mostly drunk. And forget 75% of the rules most of the time…. Yeah 7th sucks

  • Due to the git gud nature of the community busting the game, my excitement level for new 40k is only slightly higher than the excitement I would garner from being told I need to walk across broken glass.

    So I’m going to wait a half year or a year to see how the git gud community busts the game before I invest any more of my money or time into it. I’m not interested in Spreadsheet 40,000.

    • Jabberwokk

      Salt. You had your ‘forge the narrative’ chance and all you accomplished was the most outrageous levels of power gaming, possibly, in all tabletop games ever. Leafblowers, Deathstars, riptide spam, wave serpent spam, taudar, greyknights, Imperial knights,….and on and on.

      Your time is over and I am looking forward to “gitting gud” in a game that rewards me for doing so.

      • The game has always rewarded power gaming and gittin gud.

        The level of powergaming in 7th was no different than any other edition.

        Every edition has had its trifecta of only-played armies.

        So your spreadsheeting abilities won’t be affected. You’ll still be able to play Spreadsheet 40,000 to figure out which army is busted and take that. I don’t see how anything will be any different than it has been over the past 25 or so years.

        If you think starcannon spam, rhino rushing, leaf blowing, lash prince, draigo star was somehow not powergaming (all pre 6th edition artefacts of gittin gud) and is somehow overshadowed by current death stars (a death star is a death star, and the word has been a thing in 40k since 3rd edition Blood ANgels honor guard death stars were a thing in tournaments) or taudar or imperial knights… they are all the same thing.

        Busted builds that squat over the entire game and teabag it repeatedly in the name of “skill”.

        • Josh Watkins

          110% agree. Ever since mid 5th ed this game has done nothing but reward players who spam or have very deep pockets full of cash. There was one point during the shift to 7th that my local group switched to Warmachine for a month or two and the 40k power gamers where constantly squashed as many of the low tier 40k players ended up being really decent WarmaHordes players and the top tier 40k players ended up selling most of their PP models and ran back to 40k with their tails between their legs.

          It will be interesting to see what new dynamics 8th brings in but since Matt Ward looks to be calling the shots now I’m starting to see D-cheese already.

          • AircoolUK

            I would spend ages working out ‘awesome’ combo’s and the like. It was actually good fun.

            However, when all is done and finished, I went out an played with my Dark Eldar or Necron Warriors most of the time.

        • 301stFeinminsterArmoured

          Deathstars are still a thing, they just don’t form a single unit.
          Tide Spam is still a thing, they just got saddled with an HQ tax.
          Wraithknight Spam: still a thing.
          Barkstar: still a thing.
          Superfriends: still a thing, plus Bobby gets to tag along.
          Grav Spam: marginally worse, but comes in 5 flavours now.
          Air Superiority: risky but doable now.
          Spider Spam: we’ll see if it’s worth it, but it’s still here.

          I can do this all day, but the punchline is that from a composition side, the cheese is still there, just how bad it stinks is subject to interpretation.

      • As to “my time is over” – you obviously no jack and **** about me. Because I played 7th edition all of three times and each time it disgusted me. My models have been in their cases for a good four or five years.

      • AircoolUK

        😀

    • JPMcMillen

      Question, would you rather walk barefoot across broken glass or Lego bricks?

      • Fair question. I think those are both equal.

  • Talos2

    Can a room full of small tables with the new edition being played on them be considered a leak? The headline writer on here clearly dreams of working for the sun

  • Jennifer Burdoo

    Two things I’m concerned about:
    1. 15 codexes? I thought they were printing just a few, each with multiple armies?
    2. Have they removed tactical objectives, that make it impossible to stick to a plan? (“I want to go around my enemy’s left flank – oh, no, I just drew a TO that says I have to attack the right in CC to get d6 VP this turn!”)

    • 301stFeinminsterArmoured

      The Indexes are just cheat-sheets to get you playing with what you got.

      Pretty sure they’re fixing ridiculous TO draws.

  • Boondox

    Sh1t. I mistakenly clicked on boatgoy’s lame diatribute of useless crap. Negative cool points for me. I could get better 40k commentary from pornhub…

  • Antoine Henry

    Probably worst game ever. People complaining about 7th Edition but if you have been reading rules correctly, you can see that this edition will probably be 100% worst for the one complaining about old deathstar/unbalanced etc. The only good point is that it is an okay version for casual players that wants to have a quick game, without really taking care of lists/tactics and depth of play, just to have fun pushing miniatures. You will then have real players that wants to make the best list and the powercreep is already here and unbalanced like hell after just seeing a few codex leaks lol… You will see the whining less than one month after the release :).

    I’ve seen someone say “modern”. Modern means average, mediocrity, no room for perfection and reflexion. Just follow the mass and think less, consume more.

  • chris harrison

    I really don’t like the templates being replaced by a dice roll and the target unit’s player being able to decide where shooting hits go. It makes model placement (Which should be all-important in a miniature wargame!) all but worthless.