Goatboy’s NuHammer Thoughts

Hello once again with another article fanning the flames of desire for the new edition of 40k.

This isn’t going to be a rehash of new rules as I am writing this a bit early due to my weekend being filled with moving, more moving, cursing how much crap I have, and finally getting settled into a new house.  This means I won’t have a chance to catch up on the tidbits that GW will drop throughout the week as I am spending too much time dealing with the real life nonsense that comes with moving myself, my kiddo, and my wife.  Oh yeah and an old cat too who is a pain in the rear.  With that out of the way will ask the question – what the heck am I going to talk about?  Let’s just go with a wish list for the future.

Goatboy’s Wishes

Morkanaut with KFF and riggers is more points than a Wraithknight with two wraith cannons. Yay points!

First of all – I want all the armies to be good.  I want every time I get to the table top I could play something completely different instead of the same ole armies.  I want to feel the fear of trying to figure out how to win instead of going – oops got the combo time to crush your spirits.  I want to wonder what the heck those Ratlings do or what does a Kroot Shaper actually do.  I want the chance to build and break different factions instead of the same ole nonsense we have been used to with the coming of 6th and the ending of 7th.  I get the feeling some things will be better as they always are in any game – but it does feel like everyone’s collection will get a chance to shine.

I want the game to finally start to push into the limelight again.  I want to watch games on Twitch or read a Battle report where I didn’t already guess the outcome based on the army lists.  I’d like to see more then just a combo of nonsense abilities or a ton of free stuff ruin the game by overloading each of their turns.  I want events to be exciting to go to for new lists and reading about those events take up a good deal of my random phone internet browsing time.  I just want this game to fulfill the old “competitive” itch I had when we initially had 5th edition.

Armies wise, please make Orks good!  I of course have a huge Ork army so any hope to get that faction working is a dream come true.  I wasn’t nearly as good/lucky as Mr. Bad Touch Ben Mohile with those Orks so I was always feeling like I couldn’t bring them to the table top.  It sounds like they got a switch kick the pants and set them up to be truly terrifying again so I am exciting.  It also doesn’t help that I haven’t painted an Ork in over a year so the desire to slam a bunch of random stuff together and create a super bad a$$ Ork Warboss is huge.  It also helps I grabbed a Morkanuat/Gorkanuat when it was on specially locally as a bit of conversion fodder and never used it for said conversion.  I also have a crap ton of Ork bodies from my constant bits hording mentality so I should be fine to make any and every list I could ever imagine.  I even have some Flash Gitz somewhere.

Death Watch being decent – maybe? The good guy army I am excited about the most is finishing a Death Watch army.  I randomly grabbed some kits when they came out as they looked cool and thought the scheme was easy enough to mass replicate.  I even did a small commission and found their build potential to be pretty awesome.  This leads me into having high hopes my old Grey Knight Purifier army might work again too.  I don’t know how well the army builds will be and if multiple big detachments are usable in this game.  If so I do think I need a crap ton more rhinos and other vehicles to ensure I have proper transportation.  I have a ton for the Space Goats army – which again might see the light of day if I feel like reliving my youth and the constant barrage of using and reusing Goats as the Counts as Kings.

STOMP STOMP STOMP – NIDZILLA! As I was packing stuff I even found my old Nidzilla army.  I don’t think will see that army come back but it is fun to remember the good times with that list.  I built it right when I got back into 40k as it would let me win local events and thus get more goodies to build the armies I wanted too – Chaos Space Marines.  The idea of massed TWL Dakka fexes shooting out a ton of grubs is very exciting.  I don’t know if they will stay the same but will see.  I always loved big monsters and bringing them back out would be a lot of fun.  The paint job is pretty hot garbage as I wanted to get them done fast so I could ruin someone’s day on the table top.

CSMs as Dangerous Villains. Finally the dreams of actual Chaos Space Marines hitting the table top keeps me going.  I want to build some new models but no space, boxed stuff, etc means I have to just wait.  I had started a Death Guard army and the rumored boxed set plus army book is making it hard to count down the days.  I haven’t been this excited about a release in a long time and my poor wallet is crying that I need to buy some furniture and a Fridge for the new house first.  Damn you adult decisions!

Hopefully next week we get a locked in date for the release and maybe more information on how will be playing in the future.  I do like the “previews” we are getting and the push to give more concrete information for specific factions.  Everyone has their pet group and if this edition lets everyone’s collection sing again on the table top then will be in for a rather glorious set of time throwing down on the table top.

~What are you exciting about?  What armies are you wanting to bring back to futuristic landscape that is 40k?

  • Karru

    One can fully expect the Chaos Space Marines and Tyranid Monster lists will be useful in the next edition. Even with weapons that do more damage than 1 and everything can wound everything, Tyranids doing nothing but Monster spam will be hard to stop.
    6 ‘Fexes with 6-8 wounds each with Trygons and Mawlocks popping all around the enemy, laughing as the enemy doesn’t have enough multi-wound weapons to deal with all of it will be strong.

    CSM will enjoy from the heavy favouring elite armies are getting this edition, so regular CSM will be useful once again. I do feel for those that wanted to play useful and thematic Word Bearer armies, summoning Daemons into the field during the game, but since it really isn’t a good option any more and isn’t different from taking them in Reserve, except being more unreliable to bring in.

    Orks on the other hand will be in a mixed position. On one hand, those that enjoyed playing them this edition, which was large amounts Trukks and Bikes and really nothing else, will have great fun this edition. Since one-shotting is basically gone from the game against vehicles, taking multiple Trukks, around 6 minimum, will be nigh impossible to stop before they get too close to unload all their Boys.

    The unfortunate people are those that would like to see Green Tide Orks return. Since Cover was nerfed against low save armies and Morale system punishes armies that have to sustain large amounts of casualties during their march across the table, Green Tide will unfortunately remain mostly unplayable.

    I’d still like to see people use more balanced armies and more varied. Since they seemed to do the same thing they always do, which was lower point cost of armies, so we won’t be seeing much else outside elite armies especially amongst new players because not that many people get excited about the fact that they have to pay three times the amount just for their core units compared to your standard elite army.

    • “Second paragraph about Orks”. Challenge accepted.

      Honestly I think a Gorka/Morka list will be more balanced than either extreme vehicles or foot. It’s worked well in 7th in the last few games I played last year, I’ll be attempting to reconstruct the list I used to fit into Newhammer. I’m not sure it’ll be as good I’m not sold on Orks suffering negative to hit modifiers but I’m willing to try it for a few games. 20 shoota boys in a mob seemed like the magic number and was working well. I’m Really looking forward to using Durable Dreads too. Ultimately the list will have to take the majority of the missions into account more so than the possible opponents. But, I’m actually looking forward to using units I’ve skipped over for years. I may even buy some flashgitz. I think it’s the only unit I never bought or tried. Could be good.

    • euansmith

      On the World Bearer’s front, I don’t think we’ve seen the actual summoning rules, just a comment that it uses up your points and is different to deep strike. Maybe summoned daemons will be able to charge on the round they arrive, or won’t scatter within x” of a sorcerer.

      • Karru

        The problem still remains that it’s massively worse to just Deep Striking. You have to pay the points in advance, but instead of getting them guaranteed, you’ll have to go through multiple factors before you get them. First you have to have someone on the table that can cast the power to summon. Then he has to succeed in manifesting the power. Then your opponent might have a shot at stopping it. Now you get to deploy them.

        That is very risky and unreliable, even if they give it the rules you described. Especially since I can already see people starting to do “hit squads” whose only mission is to deep strike deep within the enemy lines and just kill enemy Characters. This will make Summoners extremely risky dudes to use as they will most likely be quite expensive but not really that destructive.

        • euansmith

          Do we know that you will have to cast Summon, or that you will need a Sorcerer on the table? The rules might be substantially different to the current ones, or even the ones in AoS. It might be that the Sorcerer simply acts as a beacon to make the Daemon’s “deep strike” more accurate. Or the Daemons arrive like the Flying Stormcast; just turning up and being placed x” away from the nearest enemy unit.

          • Karru

            We don’t know yet. The likelihood that it’s going to be just like AoS though is most likely the correct assumption.

            The problem is that they already said that Summoning is done very similarly as it is done in AoS. You spent X amount of points just for Summoned units. You decide what those units are. It would be pretty OP if you could just take your core units + summoners and then just automatically bring everything to the table without having to worry about a thing.

            It’s most likely going to be something like 5-6 to cast the basic units and then go all the way to 10+ for bigger brutes.

          • euansmith

            With General’s Handbook v2.0 coming out I guess we might even see some changes in AoS summoning rules. They seem to be a bone of contention at the moment, so maybe they are going to get overhauled. Everything is so up in the air at the moment 😉

          • Muninwing

            the old (3.5) model was that summoning was not a psychic power. it was an aspect of the daemon army.

            and it wasn’t psykers who summoned, it was units with banners.

            now… that meant on one hand that if all the banners are killed, points are lost. not unlike mishaps. but it also meant that having multiple units with banners meant that the daemons could come through anywhere that was needed.

            suddenly having a beatstick unit between you and a setup charge, or having a unit of flamers in the backfield to wipe out a unit of scouts was great. when Daemonettes were rending, a unit of we could pop out of the needed unit and take down a landraider (they really could). or nurglings could tarpit that combat HQ and ready it for a countercharge.

            just like Deepstriking, it has its benefits and its drawbacks. right now, it’s got no drawbacks, only limiting factors that keep it from being less effective. that’s what needs to be fixed. and the 3.5 version isn’t necessarily the be-all end-all, but it worked — i played Word Bearers back then (who had 9 FOC troop slots, 3 extras for daemons… and i had 1-3 packs of every kind to bring in).

            the big issue is if they can move, act, shoot, or charge the turn they are summoned. if they are psyker-summoned, or deepstrike-like summoned, there are different implications unless they make sure to restrict.

          • Karru

            Also, since AoS doesn’t use the Scatter die and templates are gone, one can assume that there is no more Scattering on DS. I remember seeing something about if you DS within 9″ of someone, they can fire Overwatch on the unit that DS’d.

          • There’s just so many cool things that can be done with summoning.
            I’d love to see things like , replacing one of my own units/characters like possession.
            Or a chance for deepstriking modes to be possessed, like it happened to warp spiders during second…
            (Maybe with a price adjustment to the cost of the daemons. And a few extra rules for “balance”.)

          • Karru

            Yeah, but the problem is that it is extremely difficult to balance out properly.

            You can’t do “automatic” things like you just call in something, you need to roll for it. If you don’t what says that one just doesn’t really bring in an army and hides his Psykers into a bunker somewhere and once he has seen the opponent’s army, he can just hard counter it by summoning different units “for free”.

            You can’t make it “free”, because that would just repeat the problem we currently have where people summon entire armies during the game.

            In my opinion Summoning should have always been done in a similar way as it was done with VC in Fantasy. Only units you got to Summon were trash units, Zombies, Skeletons and Dire Wolves. These units didn’t do anything beyond tarpitting. The real damage was done by your elite units that you could only heal during the game. If Daemons worked the same way, where they could bring in their basic Daemon units like Plaguebearers, Daemonettes, Horrors and Bloodletters in low numbers OR they focus on healing their old units. You would have to choose between healing your existing units, the ones that do the damage, or summoning new units to maybe put more pressure on the enemy. The entire army could be and thus should be balanced around this idea.

            Heck, they could go so far as to give us even more “weak” daemons like the Blue Horrors/Brimstones and Nurglings are. Having to choose between bringing a unit of 10 Blue Horrors and healing something like D6+2 models into an existing unit could be something that might work.

          • Muninwing

            i 100% disagree with you. trash units? nah. i want thematic units.

            if i’m playing Thousand Sons, i want my Screamers and horrors and flamers. i don’t need them for free, but i don’t expect to lose a fun theme army because you have a misunderstanding of systems.

            you need to keep in mind…

            1. deepstrike is a risk-reward. you have a benefit of better placement, but drawbacks such as availability and mishaps. you don’t get those units for free, and nobody complains about their balance, because it gives options but they do not always work.

            2. daemons being summoned by a psychic power is not the only model, certainly not the only one that Chaos has ever used. and while i doubt that they will go back to the old 3rd/4th model, it did work and there are other methods that may work as well.

          • Karru

            If you are playing your Thousand Sons and want your Chaos Daemons, you have this wild option to take them as part of your list normally. The key here is to understand that the requirements for a Battle-forged army is this:

            “All units must be from the same Faction.”

            Screamers for example will most likely have the following Faction Keywords, Chaos, Tzeentch, Daemon.

            Meanwhile Rubric Marines have Chaos, Tzeentch, Heretic Astartes, Thousand Sons.

            They share the same Keywords of Tzeentch and Chaos, thus can be fielded in the same army. No need for summoning there.

            Also, Deep Striking was a risk-reward system, this is correct, but Summoning in AoS is huge risk-low reward system. When it comes to Deep Striking, the things you had to worry about normally were getting the unit out of reserve and then the rest was mostly up to your placing. If you placed your unit right next to a piece of terrain or right in the middle of the enemy army, you can go ahead and blame yourself if you wanted to take such a huge risk.

            The odds of rolling more than 7″ AND scattering were quite low, so it was reliable as long as you didn’t just smack your unit right next to something. On top of that, you could ease the DS by using different rules that were available to some armies. Locator Beacons and Teleporter Homers of the Space Marines for example.

            Meanwhile Summoning requires three factors to go your way in order to succeed. First of all, you need to have a summoner on the table to cast the power. Then you need to cast the power. Finally, your opponent must not stop the power by nullifying it. Almost none of these are in your hands and pretty much completely rely on dice and the odds aren’t exactly the best in some cases. Summoning in AoS is a huge investment with little pay-off.

            Then again, my comment was mostly aimed as an alternative way to deal with Summoning without doing it the current way or the way AoS handles it. Basically the way I have seen it work extremely well.

          • Muninwing

            summoning is not high-risk-low-reward.

            low risk. unless Perils is a serious worry for you. there is in fact no risk to anything but your opponent’s patience as you sit and roll a few dozen dice they cannot do much about and gain stupid numbers of extra units that you have not paid for to dominate the game… then do more next round, because the units you summoned actually can boost your summoning abilities!

            sorry, it was a stupid system. not balanced. not fair. not worth keeping. not worth feeling like you lost something because anyone paying attention should know that it would disappear in the next revision.

            summoning was better for on-the-fly choice than deepstrike, with none of the drawbacks save that occasionally you might miss a roll or have one blocked by an opponent.

          • Karru

            Oh, there has been a misunderstanding here.

            I am extremely against the current system on how Summoning works. I was talking about how AoS does it. That is high risk – low reward.

            Current Summoning needs to go, but replacing it with the AoS system isn’t the solution in my books. That was what I was referring to.

          • I’m looking at a fewthings too. The player with the Daemons will want to score points for objectives as early as they can to keep their score in a winning position. A summoner may very well only be able to summons one unit a turn and on top of that summoning spells could very likely be like spells in AoS. In AoS there are no repeat spells on a given turn. So, we’d have Summon daemon infantry, Daemon Monster, Daemon Cav., That sort of thing but with unit name keyword association for the unit of Daemons. Which to me seems limiting in the amount of fresh units a turn.
            In my post above I was thinking units summoned and deployed via my examples would cost anywhere from one and a half to twice their cost based on how powerful of a mechanic that turned out to be. My thinking about possessing an enemy unit while it was deepstriking at the appropriate points cost for the Daemons seemed not too much stronger than it the deepstrikiing unit had been killed via interceptor as soon as they landed but it did cost the Daemon player points.
            I’d be pleased if Daemons had to be summoned by points earned through a separate mechanic, maybe trough wounds inflicted or enemy models removed via Morale. I don’t know exactly these were just the things that came to mind at the time.
            As an alternative we could..put faith in GW’s Newhammer..

    • Steven Hyche

      Cover didnt get nerfed vs bulk fire. Since even bolters do not have rend they will be getting 5+ saves. I think orks will be in a good spot.

      • Karru

        Since I guess one of us forgot, would you care to remind me what is the current 7th edition cover save? You know, the one Orks got against ALL shooting attacks?

        Wait… I quickly checked it and it was – *drum roll* – 5+!

        Orks got nerfed. While they get a 5+ save against the enemy Overwatch fire now, instead of none, against everything else the save remained the same or got worse. Against Heavy Bolters, Autocannon and other old AP4 weapons they are now getting a 6+ save, instead of a 5+. Against a anything that was AP3, they now get no save, instead of a 5+.

        Go ahead and tell me what makes Orks somehow be in a better position because of the changes to Cover. Oh yeah, something to point out, instead of getting a 3+ save against most Ork Shooting attacks, Marines are now getting a 2+ or a 3+ save. Isn’t that one massive improvement for the Orks.

        • You lost me. that 5+ cover save you mention. The KFF? Or cover? Which doesn’t jive for me with all the different LVL’s of saves.
          Don’t forget the change to the KFF to a 5++.
          Kinda a nerf due to model coverage rules but really that just made it more difficult to use.
          Unfortunately Orks have/had to game the rules for 7th. using everything from Look out sir to tanking to cover to the Kff all in the same unit…and that only ever goes so far.
          It’s funny when it work. Ghaz _ Lucky stick Mega boss + pain boy + no save nobs + Kff. Majority save 6+… Just because Grav. lol.

        • Steven Hyche

          The main buff is they will get a save in the open.

          • Karru

            Ah, yes, the massive 6+ save in the open where you will catch an Ork only when they are about to charge will compensate for the lose of a save from everything else!

          • Steven Hyche

            AH yes the massive 5+ cover save. Since nothing had ignore cover these days. ANyone one down play a post. Truth is you have no idea how orks will play now.

          • Karru

            I can always make a prediction. That prediction is that Orks will continue the way they have worked now. Massive amounts of Trukks and the Green Tide will remain home. The rules just don’t support large, squishy units. Especially since one-shotting is now gone, people can’t just shoot an Autocannon at a Trukk and expect it to blow up. 6+ Trukks supported by Bikes will remain as the go-to Ork tactic.

          • Steven Hyche

            So your prediction is that losing 16% chance to save sometimes but gaining an extra 16% chance other times is going to negate the charge striking first (despite bad ork int) and other bonuses. Gotcha

          • Karru

            My prediction, since it seems you missed my point completely, is that it won’t change Orks at all and that’s the problem. I would have liked to see Ork Green Tide armies return and other non-mechanised Ork lists. Charging first in CC and other bonuses won’t help when your army is annihilated long before they get there.

            You do understand that instead of having to destroy 30 Boys, the enemy has to kill around 15-20 of them in one round to completely wipe them out, right? Anyone knows that killing that many Boys isn’t exactly difficult, even if they happen to get a save against it, something they now have harder time getting thanks to how AP and Cover works.

            Orks Mechanised Lists will become even stronger than they have been since vehicles got buffed. Orks won’t be completely unplayable, instead for a first time in a long time they will be competitive. Problem is that they are restricted to one type of build.

          • Steven Hyche

            Silly assumptions normally do lead to silly conclusions. Mob rule will probably still have an effect on bravery. For example Skaven in Aos have many ways to mitigate lots of deaths causing bad battleshock losses.

          • Karru

            Which will most likely be dependant on the amount of models in the unit at the start of the Morale Phase. This means that your Bravery 6 Boy unit will most likely be 6 still, even if they get that +1 for each 10 models in the unit as it works in AoS.

    • davepak

      A lot of the surviveability of big bugs will depend on how well they fix grav.

      Between salvo and the low ap it can erase just about anything on the field.

      When I play my marines against a buddy who has nids – I can’t even field gavguns much less centurions- its just that pathetic.

      • Karru

        That is something we have to wait and see. One has to hope that GW understood that Grav was ridiculously overpowered and needs to be nerfed greatly.

  • AircoolUK

    Alas, no game as complex as 40K will ever rid itself of power builds. GW may be on the ball with points and rules fixes, but power builds then just become flavour of the month.

    I don’t mean to sound negative; I’m really looking forward to the new edition and dusting off all my armies. For most of us, things are looking good, and digital editions of codexes etc… will make staying up to date with new rules a breeze.

    However, we’re all human, we are going to look for cheese where and when we can, it’s how our brains are programmed. And there will always be those who look to the internet for cheese builds.

    Hopefully, this time around, the playing board will be somewhat level. Cool models will bring cool new rules which will no doubt be called out as OP until someone finds the cracks.

    What I really want is for flexible build to actually be flexible, and dedicated builds coming with a large risk factor.

    I’ve started collecting Kharadron Overlords because of the terrific models and cool rules. I was looking at the Arkanaut Company, which is the main unit tax for army building, and wondering how to take as few as possible. Then I thought further, and wondered how they might actually be useful, rather than just a tax, and to my surprise, I could find many ways to make them useful.

    I want this in the new 40K, to be able to look at the tax units in a formation and see good reasons to take more than the minimum required. Currently, my Tau army is severely handicapped as I have a lot of Fire Warriors, the majority armed with Pulse Carbines (why, because I like them, they also used to be ‘pinning’). I’d like to look at the formations and rules and see how those Carbine Equipped Warriors would work for me.

    • orionburn

      I agree. I’ve been really hopeful for everything we’ve seen thus far. The stratagems and change in characters has me a bit worried that there will still be room for silly abuse, but as you said you can’t stop everything. What keeps my spirits up is that we don’t have to look at it as being stuck in a crappy rules set for 3+ years. A year down the road we’ll see what is and isn’t working and get an updated GHB for 40k.

      Hopefully GW doesn’t go crazy on the steroids for those units/models that never saw the light of day in 7th ed. I’m sure hobby stores would like to actually sell a Vespid kit to get rid of inventory…lol

  • ZeeLobby

    I don’t mind power builds as long as negative play experiences are gone. Anything that you can never hit, wound or keep alive is just a negative play experience. Those were the gaps that opened between units and factions in 6th and 7th. I mean 40K has never been balanced. And with the sheer number of factions now, anyone deluding themselves that the new edition will be has a rude awakening coming. But I’ll take something shifted closer towards balance anyday. I’d be fine with pre-game moans being limited to a single spammy build from each faction again (aka Nob Bikers) than entire factions (aka Eldar)

    • orionburn

      Those things are what’s made me hate 7th more than anything. Formations never bothered me that much. It’s the invisible Wolfstar crap and the seemingly never ending 2+ reroll saves (and FNP) in certain Chaos builds.

      • ZeeLobby

        Yeah. I mean the true sign of a well written game is that there should never be moments of confusion or frustration. Interacting with certain things in 6th and 7th were just frustrating. Not because your opponent pulled off some tactically challenging maneuver, but because the rules just made the interaction with those units frustrating to begin with. FMC are a perfect example. 6s to hit with your entire army while praying for a fall down just so you have a chance to kill something significant in your turn. And then watching them leave the table edge. And ofcourse as you said, invisibility in general.

      • Graham Bartram

        One rule I would honestly love to see is; “Invulnerable saves may never be better than a 3+”.

        • Fergie0044

          Same for FNP. And maybe a cap on re-rolls? Like its half the previous value rounding up. so a 2+ re-rolls on 4+, 3+ re-roll is 5+ etc?

          • Graham Bartram

            Cap Invulnerable saves and FNP at 3+,re-rolls at 4+ , re-rolls are a time wasting mechanic anyway, better to get rid of them like they have for twin linked.

    • Troy G

      One driver of Negative play experiences was the horrible design decision to make Imperial knights their own faction, and allow an army comp that is nothing but super heavy lords of war.

      Generally games vs knights are decided before any dice are rolled. you’ve either got the tools to win handily, or you can scarcely interact with them in a meaningful way.

      We run local organized play events for a wide range of players with different views on what they want out of tournaments. Almost every rage quit we had in 7th was either a knight player getting schooled or some other army who didn’t want to play multiple knights.

      I was hoping this design decision would be rectified in 8th, apparently it won’t be. Let’s hope the game mechanics make these unfun games less fun.

      • Derptau

        I don’t know if they’ll be quite as bad in the new edition due to not having the super-heavy rules. Even if you haven’t optimized your list against them you’ll still have, an albeit, slight change in that everything can hurt it. This is where I’m actually confused on how they’ll be treating poison in the new edition.

  • Graham Bartram

    I’m not an unreasonable kind of guy, all I want is Adeptus Arbites and for the Ad-Mech to find a back-up chip in the head of Ferrus Manus that they can put in a custom knight, thus creating; Ferrus Manus, Imperial Knight Primarch… ……..ahh.. … wish-listing.

  • petrow84

    “The idea of massed TWL Dakka fexes shooting out a ton of grubs is very exciting.” – Speaking as someone, who had them: no, it isn’t and honestly, I don’t want them EVER to come back. Totally invalidated every other elite choice above 1500 pts, and the weapon itself made 90% of the biomorphs on the Hive Tyrant pointless. Make CC Carnies viable, pretty please. They are supposed to be line-breaker shock monsters, not “standing 18″away and vomiting mind-grubbing spaghetti worms upon you” bugs.

  • Christie Bryden

    im wishing the legions to be more devierse… well thousand sons atleast could use new vehicles, think a psychic powered engins of war.

  • Vepr

    I just want Nids to be fun and semi-competitive and I will return to the game. I don’t have to play a top tier army I just want an army that does not generate looks of sympathy when I try to use genestealers. The last few codices have been soul sucking messes.

    • Ebsolom

      Me too. I have 60+ Genestealers ready to pounce. I’m pretty hopeful with the new rules so far… no longer will boltguns ignore our armour, we will strike first on the charge coupled with an improved movement characteristic : )

  • Heinz Fiction

    There will always be stronger and weaker units but the gap doesn’t have to be as huge as it is today. When a player looks up the point cost of a certain unit and thinks: “holy crap, that must be a typo”, something went very wrong in quality control.

    • Muninwing

      there’s some hints that they actually changed the points values in the new edition.

      if they took the opportunity to ditch the “Jervis model” (or “who needs points?”) and actually create a quality product, they will have created and tested a working algorithm to determine points.

      i don’t have a lot of faith that this is what actually happened, but it is a longtime necessity that they at least have created the opportunity for. not doing so would be a huge waste, but it’s also GW.

      • Troy G

        Jervis did an interview last week where he crowed about helping design 8th. So i’m a little worried.

        • Muninwing

          it’s a bit sad that he’s the guy they’ve kept on, when they’ve had so many talented designers leave and share their skills with competitors…

    • davepak

      Agreed – it will never be “perfect” but it can be a LOT better.

      Many people have the attitude “it will never be 100% balanced” – with the implication of why care. This is silly.

      As stated – the “gap” just needs to be narrowed from units that are too strong, to the too weak.

      Players should have a hard time deciding on what they want, or the decision should be based more upon role (or how cool the model is) than how good or bad a unit is.

  • Agent OfBolas
    • Graham Bartram

      Hmm… I’m not a marine player but they do look nice.

  • AircoolUK

    Have you seen the new Primaris Space Marines? F*****g AWESOME!!!

  • 301stFeinminsterArmoured

    While I’m holding out hope for better Deldar, Nids and Orks, I’m waiting to see what Forgeworld does with its own sub-factions, especially Armoured Battle Company and Renegades and Heretics.

  • BT

    I want Ork Clans back, with their own version of ‘Chapter Tactics’. Because you know they will be keeping something like that for Marines. Then you can do something like that for Guard, Eldar, Necrons, Tau, and even Nids, since they are suppose to change based off of what they eat… thus the Ghoul Star fluff…