GW: Forge World Datasheets in 8th Edition

Games Workshop is back to show off how those fancy Forge World datasheets will work in 8th.

In case you missed it, GW showed off a ton of new models yesterday and then they announced their plans to support Forge World’s vast range in 8th. From the announcement they GW is shooting to support FW’s Adeptus Astartes and Chaos forces with two new Imperial Armor Books day one. For the other model’s rules, they are pushing back their release date to the end of June. Read the full announcement HERE.

Considering the official release date is June 17th, a two week delay for the rest of the Forge World line-up doesn’t seem unreasonable. It’s certainly faster that previous editions. In terms of delays, I just found out that Red Dead Redemption 2 was pushed back from a 2017 release in the Fall to a Spring release in 2018. While that’s an apples-to-oranges comparison, that still means I have to wait to get the thing I wanted…but patience is a virtue. And it’s not like I’m not going to be busy for those two weeks with the new edition.

Anyhow, the datasheets are going to look very similar to what we’ve come to expect. The icing on the cake for this teaser is that it’s also the first look at a Dreadnought’s rules…

via Warhammer Community

Uh…Brutal! Not only do we get a good look at a Leviathan Dreadnought’s Datasheet, it’s a Chaos one too! And while this one is certainly beefier than say a typical Dreadnought, it’s still a good gauge to see what rules we might find on one of it’s smaller cousins.

It certainly looks down right terrifying on paper. That Damage chart looks promising as it really doesn’t lose any effectiveness until it’s below 1/2 it’s starting wounds. All the weapons seem appropriately deadly and we even get a look at what a Meltagun will do. I’d also like to point out the variable Invulnerable save from it’s Hellfire Reactor rule. I’m expecting to see more of this type of invulnerable save in the game depending on the unit.

I also like it’s ability to heal itself through killing enemy models – it IS a Chaos Dreadnought after-all. We also get a glimpse at what could be the proto-type vehicle explosion rule with Containment Breach. Now, I don’t think every vehicle will have a “super nova” option, but I could see certain vehicles getting this type of rule when they go BOOM.\

The last thing that has me curious is how the Grav-flux rule works. I’m wondering if a similar type of special rule will be applied to other type of Grav-weapons. Could be fun!

 

So what do you think of this Walker Teaser from GW. Sure it’s for a Forge World model, but that doesn’t mean it won’t share themes or rules with other Walkers…

  • Farseerer

    Wow, that Leviathan is a beast! Interestingly, this is also the first look at Grav in 8th and it’s on a Chaos model. My, how things have changed.

    Also, here’s hoping this ground up balancing of units means that people won’t see an issue when you bring FW models to casual games of 40k.

    • Peter B

      No, that’s not the same “Grav” as in 40K. The GravFlux Bombard isn’t a grav weapon.

      • Farseerer

        You’re 100% right. My apologies.

  • Xodis

    While this is awesome, the Drill needs a -1 WS to balance it, under the Power Level rules, there is literally no reason to NOT field 2 of them. Im sure it will have a points cost…but thats FW for you.

    Also WTH on that Grav thing. Hope that isn’t setting a precedent for other Gravy weapons.

    • Farseerer

      I’m not too worried about the power levels. I would be worried if the Drills didn’t cost big points though.

      • Xodis

        True, but with this set up…why is there even a Claw? No one ever thinks “well we have this thing thats 100% better…but lets not equip it.”

        • KingAceNumber1

          Only thing I can think of is points difference. Outside of matched, you’re right.

        • On Facebook they have said that the power level – which is intended for narrative play – is based on a ‘tooled up’ model, so for the Leviathan the power level assumes you are taking (in this instance) the Drill and one of the guns. In Matched Play all options will have a points cost, so the Claw will be the cheaper option.

          • Xodis

            Still doesnt explain why a completely weaker weapon even still exists from a narrative point of view, its like keeping a musket for war when we all have AKs.

          • euansmith

            Claws are cool 😉

          • True. I have never understood why some dudes in 40K wander around with lasguns when bolters exist…

            From a narrative point of view maybe the logistics of running a drill mean that the claw is more frequently seen on the field?

          • Xodis

            I thought Bolters were too powerful for Guardsmen to use and the kick would just rip their shoulder off?
            I can see there being some logistics to it like that, which explains the price difference we SHOULD see. However I think there is a difference in the requirement of billions of lasguns and maybe….2000 Drills tops?

    • Emprah

      Yeah, the Drills are a straight upgrade. I thought a -1ws against infantry would suit them.

      • Xodis

        Thats even more balanced and fluffy than my idea. +1 to that!

  • Bayne MacGregor

    So does this mean we’ll get all the 30k Mechanicum units in 40k?
    Sure Thallax, Myrmidons and Triaros are meant to still exist in 40k by some sources, and the Cyraxes book was meant to give us some of the Automata but i’d really like the Knight Styrix too please 🙂

  • orionburn

    GW: “Let’s really take this next year to balance out all those OP weapons that plagued 7th edition.”

    FW: “Let’s undo everything they just did to balance things out for 8th edition.”

    • Durangil Estalio

      yeah the grav gun i feel is sooo much better and basically an auto take

    • ZeeLobby

      Which is ironic, because FW does a lot more game development than GW proper does. Everything is just balanced to a higher lethality. Sadly GW then made everything from FW kosher in 40K. That’s when things broke.

      • Vachones

        I don’t know why you say that FW does more game development that GW. I see rules all over the place with FW and that includes 30K as well. They make beautiful models with really interesting rules, but I see errors and very little attempt at an FAQ.

        With the FAQ for 7th edition and the play testing they have done for New 40k, GW is showing that they are working with the community. They are putting things in place that, in theory, should keep the game as balanced as its going to get. I just hope FW gets on board and can keep up now.

        • davepak

          ^This

          As a person who owns thousands of dollars of FW product, the power levels are all over the place – even in the same faction.

          I have 8 superheavies, and dozens of standard units – some are amazing, and some are utter gack.

          I don’t want OP crap – its worse then weak stuff. If I field a Tau XV107 suit, I am martyr, but when I field a 109, I am being a jerk.

    • Farseerer

      Saying the Leviathan is unbalanced when we’ve seen datasheets of less than 1% of the units in the game and have seen points values for an even smaller percentage is totally nonsensical.

      • orionburn

        It’s a joke man. I don’t buy into the “pay to win” mentality that many people see FW models as being. What I don’t want to see is everything else get balanced out fairly well and then see some rush to a new weapon that pretty much ruins the game (like grav did in 7th). For all that hype of Predators being viable again, or not worrying about your Land Raider blowing up on T1 things like this make me a bit nervous.

        • Farseerer

          Ah right. Ok. There have been some bigger jumps made in the comment sections in the past few weeks so sorry for thinking you were being serious.

          I hope the only advantage you get from taking FW in 8th is being able to use a sweet model.

          • orionburn

            I do have faith that the model will cost appropriately. The single thing I want more than anything else in 8th is for armor to actually survive past T1. I’d just hate to see new super powered weapons creep into the game to take us back to the bad old days. I think for all the excitement we have there’s that lingering fear that something is going to eff it all up…lol

          • On the other hand that also means you can’t take out your opponent’s stuff before it may hurt you plenty either 😛

          • There were quite a few FW-units/models that basically were only that: pretty & expensive, but not worth taking.

      • davepak

        If this was the first thing we see, then yes, you are correct – but it is NOT.

        We have seen the gorkanaught, the swarmlord and the knight. This does not fit into the information we have from those. (the power levels).

        This thing is absolutely insane in that context..

    • They said it will be better balanced. But somehow I don’t see that becoming reality yet.

      • KingAceNumber1

        How? Primaris marines die like 10 marines and have the number of shots of 5 marines. Granted those shots are more effective, but they’re not THAT much better.

        • Well, it comes down to costs, ya know. As always. And that’s exactly where I see the weakness in all of this. Moviemarines is what people were asking for for a long time and I don’t see them being balanced yet. I hope they will be, trust me, I do.

          • Matt Halkos

            primaris marines have the downside of being more vulnerable to multi damage weapons. weapons with 2 damage are better investments when when they can kill 1 primaris vs killing one standard marine

          • True. Still, it all stands or falls with the costs assigned to these dudes.

          • Munn

            This is a stupidly obvious, completely pointless and irrelevant statement. YOu wasted your own time and everyone elses with this tripe. You’re literally not saying anything at all. It is frankly baffling how pointless this is and how you could possisbly think ‘cost might determine balance!’ is somehow news.

          • Outch, now I’m hurt plenty. I really thought I would post some true news here. I wonder which comment was more pointless and irrelevant here actually. Yours or mine. But go ahead, it’s the internet, let your rage have a good day.

    • Nick Cathers

      You know this thing is historically costed like a knight, and not like a dreadnot right? It’s big bad gun is not dissimilar to strong large blasts rn, and it’s on an 18″ range. Don’t see the fire personally.

      • orionburn

        Yes, I’m aware. My Leviathan kitted out is nearly as expensive as taking my Knight. Hopefully the points for those weapons are costed accordingly, because they’re way more nasty than what a Leviathan can currently take.

        • Munn

          pfft you say broken other people say worthles, no one actually has any freaking Idea if he’s good or not and I wish everyone would stop pretending.

          • davepak

            Those other people are not smart.

      • KingAceNumber1

        People see the word “dreadnaught” and assume 135-150 pts.

      • davepak

        You know its got significantly less power level than the knight? This thing is 16, the knight is 24.

        This is easily on par in the 20 range, and easily wipe out the swarmlord or a gorkanaught.

        • ILikeToColourRed

          16 power being the same as 15 ish 1k sons, which would be around 300 points currently

        • I actually don’t think it would wipe out a swarmlord. The Swarmlord is so quick that there is basically no chance if the fight is one on one of the Leviathan even getting a shot off, and in CC the Swarmlord looks to be a real beast.

          Additionally the Swarmlord at the very least is able to hand out a movement buff and is a psyker with all the attendant advantages of that, while the Leviathan is a beat stick but in no way a force multiplier.

  • foulestfeesh13 .

    With no explanation as to why the xenos books from Forgeworld aren’t being released till later it is unreasonable since the said in the FAQ article about 8th edition everything was getting rules from day one.

    • ZeeLobby

      hehe, yeah, and numarines aren’t “new”marines.

    • Xodis

      It specifically stated all *Citadel* models would have rules from day 1. FW models are FW models, not Citadel models.

      • Didn’t they say the same about Forge World models explicitly? Or they just said they will have rules, without saying from day 1?

        • Xodis

          The didn’t mention day 1, and even left a tag so explain to use the old rules currently.

          “**A few of you might be wondering how the new edition of Warhammer 40,000 affects Forge World’s Horus Heresy rules and army lists. Well, for the moment, it won’t! You can carry on using the existing Warhammer 40,000 ruleset for your Horus Heresy games.”

      • Duncan Parker Newton-Gaines

        in the FAQ, they specifically did call out Forge World models as having rules from “the get go,” just like everything else:

        Can I still use all my models?
        Yes. Every Warhammer 40,000 miniature we sell today will be usable in the new edition of Warhammer 40,000. What’s more, they’ll be supported with new rules, which will be available from the get go in handy, low-cost books.

        Even Forge World models?
        Yes, even all of your Warhammer 40,000 Forge World models

        • Xodis

          You seemed to have missed a very important ** at the end of
          “Even Forge World models?
          Yes, even all of your Warhammer 40,000 Forge World models**”

          “****A few of you might be wondering how the new edition of Warhammer 40,000 affects Forge World’s Horus Heresy rules and army lists. Well, for the moment, it won’t! You can carry on using the existing Warhammer 40,000 ruleset for your Horus Heresy games.”

          If rules were going to be available on day 1…why the need for this?

          • Duncan Parker Newton-Gaines

            because Horus Heresy (Warhammer 30k) is a separate game that GW has no input on. I haven’t missed a thing here.

          • Xodis

            Well, as I said in another post, if they release them digitally like in AoS, they kept their word.

        • Xodis

          Also, just because the Xenos book wont be available, doesnt mean the datasheets wont be posted online and available for everyone to use.

    • Farseerer

      Really? There are many reasonable explanations as to why a couple of books are a couple of weeks later than planned.

      Maybe there was typos and they did a re run.
      Maybe there was an issue with the printers.
      Maybe something else totally reasonable.

      It’s 2 weeks. Stop acting like a brat.

      • foulestfeesh13 .

        The issue isn’t waiting a couple of weeks it’s the fact that they haven’t given us any explanation as to why there’s a delay when they said we would get the rules day one.

        • Farseerer

          It boggles my mind that you feel like you’re entitled to an explanation over something so trivial.

          • Michael Bradbury

            aka ‘the internet”!

  • TheFunnySide

    I am getting this feeling that every big boy got an invul save.
    That should not be nessessary in an edition with save modifiers.
    Those weapons that have -4 to armor wont ever have full effect as it seems.

    • Yea, that’s why they also came up with ‘mortal wounds’. Basically an in-built rule to ignore another in-built rule.

  • Walter Vining

    why cant chaos get anything good

    • Not sure if sarcasm.

      • davepak

        If not, it should be.
        For 16 power, this thing is insane.

        It will easily wipe the floor with the swarmlord, and can quite threaten an imperial knight.

        This is disappointing – I was hoping FW stuff would not be OP – this is crazy op. Should be 18 or 20 points.

        • MechBattler

          We don’t actually know if that power rating is the actual point cost of the model yet. Could be something else.

          • Ghaniman

            It is something else. The power rating is used to work out relative power levels of narrative or open play.

            Points will be elsewhere, including one would seriously hope an decent increase in points with some of those weapon options.

          • MechBattler

            Weren’t those things already well over 300 points in 30K? That seems plenty to me.

          • Ghaniman

            Points will exist for matched play. And yeah I’d expect around that sorta point level.

  • Brian Murphy

    More fodder for the mill here. As it seems the rule is fairly consistently that big models don’t degrade until they’ve lost half their Wounds, it makes the math on when to use which gun variable. Before you’ve whittled this big boy down to 8 or 9, there’s no point in plinking at him with a mob of lasguns, but when when you’re on the cusp of a step, it might be worth the risk just to push him over the edge. And those steps come more frequently below half.

    • KingAceNumber1

      Interesting observation. You’re right, from full health lascannons will be the things chunking vehicles but if you’re one damage point away from dropping the stat line of whatever you’re shooting at, those regular ol’ bolter shots might just be worth tossing out

    • ILikeToColourRed

      thats a great point, and I hadnt considered this ^_^

  • Nyyppä

    The only issue I have with this is that yet again GW has missed the status quo that exist between CSM and SM in terms equipment. CSM has old equipment. SM has new quipment. The Leviathan is old equipment. This is not reinforcement for CSM. This is reinforcement for SM. This should have been in the CSM lists from the start and be a new thing for SM if both could not have it.

    • Nyyppä

      Also: So, grav continues to be a problem for the entire game.

    • When you see it from a 40k-perspective, yes. When you see it from a 30k-perspective, no.

      • Nyyppä

        This is 40k, right?

        • ClarenceThomas

          You mean 30k style grav, of which the bombard was by far the most powerful. Normal grav blasts are mostly AT right now; they do haywire, but to dudes cause a ST test or they suffer ap 4 wounds. The bombard causes ST on 2d6 together or ap 2 Ignores Cover.

          1 model has a bombard, and its this one, which costs almost as much as a knight.

          • Nyyppä

            High strength high ap shots are the reasons why grav is a problem in 7th and the trend continues.

        • Since it’s a Leviathan, it’s both.

          • Nyyppä

            I meant that we are talking about 40k.

    • Alpharius

      This IS for CSM…

      What’s your point exactly?

      • Nyyppä

        That GW has gotten the gear status of both CSM and SM backwards.

  • SilentPony

    So objectively worse. Good. That’ll show everyone who bought a Grav-Flux thinking it was good!

    • Nilok

      You do realize that you can’t use the grav-flux bombard in 40K, only 30k, right? These are rules only for 40k.

      The weapon can deal up to 15 wounds to any Monstrous Creatures, Vehicles, and Titans. Furthermore if you shoot the bombard at at a 10 man unit, you are shooting up to 9 shots at a time, each dealing 2 wounds. The weapon also completely negates an armor save with that -5. To put that in another way, the grav-flux bombard can one-shot a Leviathan Dreadnought.

      If this is is so much more obviously worse than it was before, I find that a little insane.

      • SilentPony

        In 30k a Leviathan with 2 Grav Flux is more than enough to destroy an entire 20 man tac squad, and then some, in a single turn, depending on scatter and if the Leviathan uses a the rest of its payload.

        • Nilok

          Cool, now I have a reference. Also, all of the numbers I was using was from a single grav-flux bombard. For two, you a dealing up to 30 wounds to a heavy target.

          Since you mentioned a 20 man tac squad, read the special rule for the grav-flux, +D3 shots for every 5 models in the target unit. A single grav-flux does 5D3 shots vs a 20 man unit, up to 15 shots, each dealing 2 wounds, and with two, you have 30 shots pumping out 60 wounds. That won’t just kill a 20 man unit of tac marines, that will kill a 20 man unit of Primaris Terminators.

          So no, even in your own example, it is potentially better. Also, you don’t lose attacks in the new 40k version for swapping out the Siege claws for guns.

          • Xodis

            I think you can only swap 1 Claw for a ranged weapon and not two by the way it is written.

          • Nilok

            Ah, was reading the drill replacement. Still removed the reducing in attacks for swapping any melee weapon, and I still argue that as a single weapon, it is stronger.

          • MechBattler

            Yeah. Though the wording seems a little clunky, it looks like it doesn’t allow doubling up on those guns.

          • SilentPony

            While I get the point of potentially dealing more wounds, the average of 5d3s is 9-10.

            And I haven’t seen, but do wounds still spill over? Like is each wound from the grav does 2 wounds, and there’s a 1 wound model, does the spare would stop or bleed over?
            ’cause if it bleeds over, then those 9-10 average are actually 18-20 against anything smaller than a Primaris.
            And that I will admit is better. 18-20 AP2(or whatever, -5) per flux is pretty good.

          • BaboonKing

            No, excessive wounds don’t spill over (and I think that’s for the better; it leads to more specialized weapons).

    • Munn

      This is a completely different game.Trying to do a 1to1 comparison is like comparing Haley2 and Abaddon.

  • Braden_Campbell

    Please include the Sororitas Repressor….

  • 301stFeinminsterArmoured

    More curious about how they’ll be handling Infernal Relics. I’m pretty certain Legacies are gone, but I wanna know how hard it will be to run my Achilles (also curious about if I made a good call not magnetizing the Volkite sponsons).

  • MechBattler

    YIKES.

    Those are some savage weapons.