40K: Eighth Edition has Arrived – Get your T-Shirt and Free Battle Primer

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Eighth Edition has landed. Time to start arguing about how it’s the best/worst edition ever. Here’s some free rules to start you off.

Eighth Edition’s out for real! Games Workshop is celebrating the launch with a big old party. Well, they’re celebrating by releasing a free Battle Primer so that everyone who wants to can get started, as well as by offering up a swanky t-shirt.

The Battle Primer is a nice packet of information–and it does exactly what it says on the tin. It comes with all eight pages of the core rules, but goes beyond just the basics. In addition to the basic rules (which, we’ve mentioned previously, are pretty streamlined and accessible), you’ll also get a sample turn of play, complete with diagrams and step-by-step walkthroughs of some of the most common situations in the game (as well as a couple of weird rules interactions). And on top of that, you get a sample mission so you have the framework you need to crush your enemy as he sits across the table from you, looking smug because he bought a t-shirt.

Of course, once you’ve read the rules, you should check our series on rules you might have missed. There are some interesting rules interactions out there. And especially considering how fast the game is, you might need to have a handy list of questions and answers ready in case you need to settle a dispute on the tabletop.

Good news! GW has got you covered once again. In addition to the Battle Primer, they’ve also posted up their designers commentary, so you can get a look at the thought process behind some of the rules, as well as get a look at some interesting, corner-case rules analysis. It’s a little more like a FAQ, so if you need some cold hard facts to back up your arguments, it’s the place to turn.

via Warhammer Community

The Battle Primer is designed to be a foundation for the game, available to all players. While you’ll need the rulebook for the advanced rules and three ways to play, the Battle Primer contains the Core rules of the new edition, as well as an example of a game turn. There’s even a scenario for you to play! Download the Battle Primer in your language below. Future releases will contain rules in the box, so you’ll be able to get stuck in as soon as possible.

If you have questions about the rules in the new edition, you’ll want to read the Designers’ Commentary. We’ve had all sorts of queries about the rules and our team have written a document designed to explain the core principles behind the game, from coherency to characters, to dice rolls themselves. Whatever your level of experience, it’ll be sure to be a valuable resource in any of your games.

Check out the Battle Primer and Designer’s Commentary here

Want to see more 40K? Check out our Twitch stream and see some gameplay in action.

  • euansmith

    Neato. GW dun gud ag’in.

  • Montserrat

    So…where are the unit datasheets? They say they’re included in every box of miniatures for free…so i have 500+ miniatures on my shelf…if they expect im gonna buy the indexes they are very wrong.

    • Shinnentai

      The Indexes total almost 800 pages – did you really think they’d be providing all that info in the boxed game?

      Also, could you please link to where they make this promise? I suspect you’ve misinterpreted what was written.

      • Heinz Fiction

        However, without any datasheets the usefulness of the battle Primer is rather limited…

      • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

        although I paid for rules for my armies very recently, they want us to pay for a temporary set of rules that aren’t as good, before paying again for a slightly better set. Hmmm.

        • Shinnentai

          How recently? Are you outside the voucher window? (25th of February 2017 to 22nd of April 2017)

          • Stealthbadger

            This does kinda suck but in the end I figured £12 and some of the rules are great for me to figure out armies I don’t play such as eldar. I’m not sure why people think the codexes are going to massively change the rules though. I expect unit profiles will remain the same and we just get warlord traits, relics, and maybe a formation but I really hope not on the last one.

          • Probably a few small tweaks here and there is all. Most of the AoS stuff is fairly consistent between the alliance books and battletomes I think.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            if it were £12 it would be fine. I play two armies- Iron Hands SM with Skitarii allies and a couple of FW units, and Chaos Space Marines with a Renegades and Heretics part and again one or two FW units. I find I need to spend about £75 for the rules, and they aren’t even the permanent rules, and compared to what they replace they are bland and boring.

          • Stealthbadger

            Then why play if it’s boring. Clearly your money is limited and time is precious, which is understandable. I’d say buy one index and just play a single army until you get proper rules but maybe you’ve just outgrown 40k? Just a though. Not trying to be snarky just trying to think what might work in the circumstances.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            I’ve been playing for 30+years, and haven’t grown out of it yet! However I will indeed sit out this edition, or this part of the edition, until the permanent books come out. I’ll try it again at that point, but going from Traitor Legions to the abomination that is the Chaos Index is just too much of a step backwards.

          • Stealthbadger

            Well I hope it turns out ok for you dude.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            cheers mate. I’ll be fine. I live on a relatively isolated Scottish island and there are limited gamers here, but there are people who play Bolt Action and SAGA and some of the 40K gamers are just getting into 30K, so I’ll get my fix of 7th edition with them hopefully. I’ll be building some Zone Mortalis terrain so we can play small games as forces are built up.

            GW have always gone to extremes, and then reversed. I expect in 9th they’ll bring back armour facings and damage tables and a bit more detail.

          • AircoolUK

            …and in the Highlands, a five-headed dog will eat the sun.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            so best wrap up warm. True story.

          • Iconoc1ast

            My postcode apprently tells everyone that i am in the Highlands. Cant wait to see this dog though!

          • georgelabour

            Having all your forces updated in one go instead of waiting up to 14 years for a new codex is a backwards step.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            it is when you have to a) pay for them in one go and b) some were updated with very cool rules a few months ago and the replacements are totally bland.

          • georgelabour

            In this case I was more pointing out that having it all done at once is in fact a huge step forward for them.

            Just how many years did it take to get a second Dark Eldar codex? Something like 10 years and two editions IIRC.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            well they have done it before, in 3rd ed 40K they released all the army books at once, just like this in a temporary format, likewise in 3rd and 6th Ed WHFB. I think it was essential because the old codexes simply won’t work, so you can hardly say its an improvement. Lots of complaints about them and blandness/imbalance. What would have been an improvement would have been releasing finished actually non bland army books.

          • georgelabour

            I don’t recall it being done as extensively as this in 3rd. Though I was far more into Space Marine and Battletech at the time so perhaps I am misremembering something here.

            And while I of course agree that having brand new codices full of pretty pictures for everyone would have been nice we both know that’s simply not practical.

            Not to mention people would instead be complaining about ‘having’ to buy hundreds of dollars worth of books on day one instead of having them spread out over a year or two. Kind of a gaming catch 22 for GW really.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            I think it was third, it might have been second, anyhow one of the editions had a book of army lists with the main rules, all included.

            I don’t see why it wouldn’t have been practical, it would have meant delaying the release, thats all, and foregoing the extra money made from the temporary indexes. I think that might be the real reason actually. GW has become addicted to the easy cash from rules churn.

          • georgelabour

            I do beleive you’re thinking of 2nd. Though even that required you buying Dark Millenium for a lot of the information.

            As far as practical I mean that the logistics and cost of producing, printing, and then shipping a new codex for each and every faction is just not something you can honestly expect. Certainly no other games producer I know of could be expected to put a dozen hardcover rule books for a new edition on launch day.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            Well the obvious answer to that is why have a dozen books? Seems to me the current index format would be fine with perhaps 20 more pages per book giving chapter tactics and equivalent etc. More care simply needed to be given to unit entries and overarching rules, not necessarily more ‘bulk’ of pages.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            I bought Traitor Legions and Angels of Death when they came out, which wasn’t long ago.

          • Spacefrisian

            Look Simba all the interwebz complains are yours as far as you can see.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            plenty of other unhappy people even on this single discussion.

        • georgelabour

          Bought my Astra Militarum codex some years back. I wouldn’t call that very recently.

          Skitarii, Knights, spave wolves, etc, etc…all got put to use in numerous games since their release.

          The most recent rules heavy book that I bought was the planetary onslaught book. Which I got a refund on.

          That really just leaves the gathering storm books as things which had a short shelf life in game terms. As I bought those mostly for the narrative it’s not a huge loss.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            Traitor Legions, Angels of Death and the Gathering Storm books is not an insubstantial sum of money. Enough to make me say I’ve had it with GW and not pay more for the temporary bland replacements. I’ll wait until the permanent codexes are out and reevaluate then.

          • georgelabour

            I’ll concede the traitors legion thing. Though they did give us a grace period where we could gain some compensation for buying things so close to the end of this edition.

            So it’s not like the first Knights codex which became obsolete within four months of its release, and not even a token gesture from GW on the matter.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            it doesn’t seem so dissimilar to IK to me, I’ve had relatively few games with Traitor Legions. It only came out in December 2016 and here we are 6 months later and its gone.

          • georgelabour

            I’m actually in agreement with you on that one. I was also somewhat annoyed at the speed with which the first IK codex was rendered obsolete. Though obviously I’m not as disheartened about the game as you are.

            But let’s remember that there was an attempt to compensate folks who’d recently purchased books that were soon to be replaced. I honestly haven’t seen anything quite like that from any other company besides Battlefront.

            However Battlefront’s program was basically ‘bring in your 50 dollar hard cover, get a tiny softcover that’s falling apart even before it’s out of the box’. I believe I was given three of those things as the first two didn’t even make it out of the gamestore that night.

            Heck the first one fell apart as it was being handed to me. XD

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            the compensation didn’t include the Gathering Storm books, which had the shortest life of all.

          • georgelabour

            True. But then I got mine just for the pictures and my lore obsession.

            I also managed to get my money back on planetary onslaught thanks to my LGS being stand up folks.

      • Someone on BoLS said they would in one of the rumor articles. Index 1 was well done though so really the $20 is worth the price.

    • Mike X (Official)

      I was under the impression that we’d get free datasheets, too. I guess 8th edition is the one I skip. Glad my group and I found other systems to play.

      • Stealthbadger

        Long term the data sheets will be in the boxes apparently according to a FB response. Maybe they’ll put them up online too. But in any event why the expectation of the rules for free? I’m just curious why people seem so expectant on this. Did the other systems you guys moved to have free rules and is that what drew you in?

        • Because of AoS and I think one of the articles here “speculated” that the unit rules would be free as well. Seriously bough, the indexes aren’t expensive (and cheaper digitally) and very well done. It’s just another excuse to nerd rage and hate GW for some people. The game looks solid (haven’t played yet) and I’m happy with the new edition so far

          • ZeeLobby

            The indexes are pretty bland though. Itd be cool moving forward if the rules were made free at least. Wasn’t all that excited to pay for holdover rules, but meh.

          • Stealthbadger

            I don’t get the bland though, I’ve yet to play a game so maybe I’ll see it then but I wonder is it coloured by you army? E.g. Because SM are temporarily without chapter tactics but then most armies never had them so reading the ork index or necron one I don’t see how it’s more bland. Not saying you’re wrong I just wonder if ‘bland’ is becoming the 8th ed. buzzword.

          • ZeeLobby

            Tau lost a lot of cool wargear and tactics. No more jet packs. No more buff commanders. Marker lights are pretty basic now. And with all this the gained very little in flavor. Chaos feels the same way. Especially after all the cool content they released with the legion books. I don’t know how you could look at these and not see the blandness. I mean maybe SMs were bland to begin with? (I haven’t played them since 6th).

          • Stealthbadger

            I guess balance has to come at this sort of price though. It was pretty obvious that if you want balance you’re going to have to standardise the armies a lot more.

            The things you listed were what made Tau such a groan fest to face. I’m amazed eldar kept there we get two shooting phases thing to be honest.

            Maybe they’ll flesh things out for you though in the codexes. It’ll be interesting to see what the Septs bring.

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah. I’ll believe this until the first codex comes out and suddenly that single faction has a lot more flavor. That’s not blanding out of necessity, but blanding for simplicity. It was just easier to balance a bland game then it is to balance a complex one. That said, with no games under the belt, I’ll be shocked if 8th is balanced out the gate. At least internally in some factions there are clear winners and losers already.

            And how was a buff commander and jet packs a “groan fest”. If anything Tau was a “groan fest” because things weren’t costed correctly. They were unique mechanics to a faction that gave them variety. Now their kind of like overpriced guardsmen, at least from first glances. Marker lights may have needed a reworking, but as they stand now they’re very dull.

          • They have to be bland though. There are so many armies crammed into each book that in order to keep the prices down ($20 isn’t that much) GW couldn’t really do huge volumes. All the fluff and so on will be in each codex

          • ZeeLobby

            I mean I was talking rules not fluff.

          • I’m sure as the codices are released things will have more flavor to them. These are just to get players started. If the pace of releases is anything like AoS there will be more than enough over the next year or so

          • ZeeLobby

            Most likely. I’m sure just like AoS, some factions (those without new releases) will most likely get stuck in bland rules limbo though.

          • Dude, you are entirely too negative. Unlike fantasy, 40k armies sell really well in general. Granted some sell better than others, but I don’t see most of the armies being as neglected as you predict

          • ZeeLobby

            Negative or honest? I mean 50% of factions sold have been Space Marines. I mean we’ve seen GW skew sales towards imperial factions for the past 30 years. There’s no way Orks sell even a fraction of what SMs do. I mean that’s pretty obvious when you walked into any store this past weekend and saw stacks of Xenos 1/2 while Imperial 1 evaporated. Will they be neglected as long as some fantasy armies have, probably not. Will some factions still be waiting for their codex 3 years from now? Guaranteed.

          • Judging by AoS’s release schedule, certainly not. There are somewhere around 14-15 battletomes released in the last 2 years, plus the collected order/death/chaos/destruction collections AND path to glory, the generals handbook and skirmish. I think the 40k release schedule will be paced somewhat similarly

        • Shinnentai

          Data sheets in boxes makes a lot of sense. I hope they’re nice cardstock ones rather than an extra page in the assembly instructions (this is likely a forlorn hope).

          • ZeeLobby

            That would be awesome.

          • Stealthbadger

            I think probably printed on back page of instructions is the way they’ll go. Like now for current out of codex stuff like the storm hawk.

        • Heinz Fiction

          Which system doesn’t have free rules nowadays? 😉

          • ZeeLobby

            I was trying to think of one, but really can’t at this point.

          • Stealthbadger

            Are infinity and war machine/warmahordes free? I think armada and x wing were charged for, but that’s hard to call over whether you count the cards etc.

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah. Infinity and WMH are both free. I know plenty of X-Wing/Armada players who simply print out cards to play as well. Officially at events I think you’re supposed to have official cards, but both systems fall into this weird category of tabletop wargame/board game/collectible card game.

          • Stealthbadger

            Well I guess GW just don’t think they need to offer completely free rules as a loss leader. Time will tell on who got this right out of this and those systems I suppose.

          • ZeeLobby

            Uh. Those systems. From a consumer standpoint. Definitely those systems. Lol. I will always argue what’s best for me, “there just a company” be damned. I’d argue that things like that are just bits of what has helped those systems grow during GW’s stagnation.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            Agreed. Even free or very cheap books if you owned the previous edition, like in Flames of War. No alienating customers with rule churn for them, unlike GW…

          • ZeeLobby

            I mean thank God these companies came along. I don’t think GW would ever have done this on their own. If anything GW has gotten worse with rules churn over the years. But maybe 40K will eventually follow AoS.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            Lets hope so. Rules cost is one of the main reasons I’m sitting this edition out, along with the blandness of the indexes.

            I might get back in when the ‘final’ books are released. Or not. There is 30k and a lot of more grown up games to play.

          • Red_Five_Standing_By

            Hold up, Zee, the base rules for Warmahordes are free but the vast majority of the unit rules are not.

          • ZeeLobby

            http://cards.privateerpress.com/

            Anything with an update is. And cards come with the units. I guess it’s true you have to pay $20 for warroom and every unit in game.

          • georgelabour

            If you have to resort to what is basically theft in order to get the tools to play the game then they’re not free.

            So no, X-wing/Armada cards are not free. Unless you can show where FFG has a spot on their website or an app for such things.

            Which really just leaves Infinity. And that ain’t exactly exploding with popularity. Nor is it known for its simple to understand rules.

          • ZeeLobby

            LOL, printing google images is theft. LOLOLOLOL.

            Man you guys are hard pressed. Breathe homie.

          • georgelabour

            Welp..

            If i ever need someone to text responses to cute cat pics I know whom to turn to.

          • ZeeLobby

            Just trying to help you out. You appear to be going out of your way to wrap your body in GW gaming mats (don’t forget to iron first), lol.

          • georgelabour

            Avoidance may be a great tactic in dodge ball. However it’s never done much when it comes to the matter of affirming one’s statements.

          • ZeeLobby

            I mean it’s a good thing that FFG allows places to provide images of all their cards right. I guess you can print their cards and play without “resorting to theft”. lol. But carry on with your known agenda.

          • georgelabour

            You can also just stick GW models into your pants and get them ‘free’.

            Or torrent their books off a site that’ll hopefully give you a few viruses in exchange for being a selfish scrub.

            So by your own logic GW is also giving you things for ‘free’. Thus any complaint about buying rules for a new rule’s set are thus moot.

            After all Duncan isn’t going to rappel SWAT style into your house if you rip off a few boxes of Hormagaunts. Which means they’re totes okay with such actions..

          • ZeeLobby

            So GW has OKed those actions? Didn’t know that. Do you have a link?

          • georgelabour

            A link to the comments you made that I then replied to? Sure. here ya go.

            http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/06/40k-eighth-edition-arrived-get-t-shirt-free-battle-primer.html

          • ZeeLobby

            LoL. What was that you said elsewhere about avoidance? Nice dodge!

          • georgelabour

            You’re the one who made the claim that rules are free because some guy can get something off of google images.

            I merely pointed out that such logic is incorrect.

            I also pointed out that apparent inaction aimed at individuals is not the same thing as acceptable of the act.

            Nor is it proof that the producer of the item in question is purposely providing them for ‘free’.

            At no point did I make the claim you yourself asked me to show. That you seem to be unable to comprehend such simple things is not due to avoidance on my part.

            So unless you can show where FFG is in fact providing all of its published X-wing material for free then I once again must reassert that the ONLY relevant example is Infinity.

        • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

          Many systems have free rules and lists these days.

      • kingcobra668

        So you invented an “impression” and got yourself disappointed by it. Your fault. Good riddance.

        • Red_Five_Standing_By

          Amen!

      • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

        There will doubtless be some army builder apps that include the rules.

    • AircoolUK

      I went ahead and bought every Index. Now I have the rules for every unit and army in the game. Awesome 🙂

    • georgelabour

      Wait, you mean Duncan isn’t going from house to house and injecting datasheets into all the boxes I’ve bought over the years?

      Then who was that guy in the ninja costume rummaging in my fridge last week?

  • Defenestratus

    The game isn’t that fast. Played two 50pl games yesterday that ran 2.5 hours and 3 hours respectively.

    • Stealthbadger

      I’ve seen a few bat reps now that seem to wrap up in 90 minutes or so. Guess you get faster the more games you play.

      To be honest was speed ever 8ths biggest selling point?

      • ZeeLobby

        I mean kinda. It was the justification for them removing a lot of stuff from the game. Most of their discussions talked about speeding up the X phase, etc.

        • Stealthbadger

          I think it’s a plus. It’s just not what I thought most wanted, judging by comments on here the biggest demand were balance and removal of complication.

          • ZeeLobby

            Oh. I’m not saying I wanted it. I don’t mind a 3/4 hour game. I set aside nights to play anyway. I was just pointing out that there was this implication from GW that games will be faster. Not even stating that it’s incorrect. Totally a fan of balance. Didn’t think the rules were complicated at all once you removed everything tacked on from 6th and 7th, and maybe just wrote the USRs to be more clearly. I do remember looking up a rule last night that took several minutes only to realize it was Feel No Pain, lol.

          • Stealthbadger

            Ha, I think the first rule in the brb for 8th should be forget everything you know about 7th. Many of the issues I’ve seen from rules conundrums to unit efficacy seem to be as a result if ‘thinking 7th’ e.g. The leman russ battle cannon. It’s more a MC and vehicle wrecker now than horde control.

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah. I mean I totally get that. This just seemed more like a name change for no reason though. I imagine most of 8th time lost will be spent looking up individual special rules on your opponents list of units. It’s a shame. Well written USRs would have been great.

          • Stealthbadger

            Yeah agreed. Matt at MWG did a summary video on the pros and cons and I think he pretty much nailed how I feel. Some things are a bit dumb but they fixed so much I’ll take it.

          • ZeeLobby

            Ill wait til I play 10 games before I start making any claims, haha. Things look promising though.

    • Horus84cmd

      and how much of that time was looking up rules and stats etc.. because its all new and not yet committed to memory?

    • kingcobra668

      So you can’t fathom getting quicker after knowing the rules better after maybe more than 2 games?

    • EvilCheesypoof

      For me and my group at least it’s much faster, even when referencing rules, so I imagine once you start memorizing stats and rules it’ll go quicker for you too.

  • Azhrarn

    Why is everyone talking about PL games though, you use the normal point costs I would hope, PL has no consideration for wargear and as such would quickly devolve into nonsense due to people min-maxing the hell out of their armies with the free upgrades.

    • Ebsolom

      It’s just one of the ways you can play the game. It’s quicker to choose units for your army and it’s more suited to open and narrative play. Matched play caters for those of you who want to go into further detail with points granularity.

    • Heinz Fiction

      If you play with power level and think of min-maxing you are already doing it wrong. PL are for people who just want to leisurely throw dice at each other. If you think list building is part of the fun, use points.

    • ZeeLobby

      PL only really work if for the past 10 years you’ve been building the example armies GW puts in every book (one of each unit with no optimization/synergy).

      • Stealthbadger

        Or play with a friend or two and are too lazy for points (I.e. Me) Hopefully the app/BattleScribe will remove this issue

        • ZeeLobby

          Yeah. I’m sure they’ll be out soon. Having written lists since the beginning of time, I’ve never seen it as a struggle, but I’m also lazy. Just don’t know if I’m that lazy :D. But I can totally understand.

          • Stealthbadger

            It’s the fact that for some things you have to ‘add’ basic gear. That’s just odd and I’m not sure the reason of ease adjusting the points really makes sense. I mean the current ‘bad’ units seem more bad through lacking rules rather than points. E.g. Leman Russes are ok but the moving thing reeeeeealy hurts them. But space marines? Machine spirit got you covered yo!

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah. Def imbalances for sure. I don’t mind adding basic gear. It gives a flat value to everything that can be tweaked when needed. Now it gives them somewhere to go with basic weaponry if it’s too powerful. That said. I still think they’re ignoring how platform effects cost. A Leman Russ’s lascannons should probably cost differently than a guardsman.

    • Malisteen

      The upgrades aren’t so much free as you’re required to pay for them. EG, a minimal 5 man chaos marine squad is 5 battle points, an investment approximately equivalent to 100 points even though five naked CSMs with default gear are only 65 points using the points system. The PR system assumes you’re going to be spending around 35 points on the unit between icon, weapon upgrades, & stuff for the champ. If you take the most expensive stuff there’s a bit of an effective discount, but not by that much. In effect, it creates a situation where you might as well take all the cool upgrades and weapon options because you’ve already paid for them regardless, as opposed to the points system which, as in the past, can end up discouraging the upgrades that would make a unit interesting to begin with.

      Would you rather see CSM squads with icons and special weapons and tooled out aspiring champions who actually look like they might aspire to something, or would you rather see the CSM squads of 6th or 7th – with maybe a special weapon, maybe a combi weapon on the champion, and otherwise as boring and generic as possible? I’d rather more interesting units, with upgrades and special gear just assumed as part of the points you pay for the squad in the first place.

      • Heinz Fiction

        I would much rather have the choice instead of just saying: “yes, all my tyranids have adrenal glands and toxin sacs, why wouldn’t they?”

        • Malisteen

          Points can take away options as much as open them. with PR I can give a daemon prince claws or a sword or an axe and they’re all interesting options that mostly amount to a cosmetic choice fitting whatever I think looks coolest. With points, I can only give them claws – the most boring option visually, imo – because the other two options are arbitrarily taxed some 30 extra points for no reason. Heck, the sword is objectively WORSE than the claws, yet costs 30 points more. Where’s my choice?

          But more generally, for my money more upgrades is more fun. I’d much rather live in a world where every tyranid has venom sacks, every sergeant has a power weapon, and every chaos marine squad has an icon, than in a world where no units have any of those things because of the fun tax inherent within any granular points system.

          • Heinz Fiction

            Thats really more an issue of putting the appropriate price tag on certain things than of using points in general.
            And while this surely IS an issue, it is the lesser of to evils in my opinion. Unlike in previous editions, when I read through the indexes of my armies I see lots of interesting choices and only a few no-brainers. Whithout points though, half of my weapons have no reason to exist anymore and every option which doesn’t replace something else becomes an auto-include.

          • Malisteen

            I would say that’s a flaw in the design of your weapons, then. As I look through the CSM index, the primary default weapon options are either bolters or chain swords, both with much to recommend them. The primary special weapons are flamers, plasma guns, and melta guns, and again each has much to recommend them and even without any points differential I still imagine all three would see use. The primary heavy weapons are heavy bolters, missile launchers, autocannons, and lascannons, and again even without any points difference all are distinct enough to see use apart from maybe the autocannon, and the granular points system doesn’t help the autocannon – in fact it makes its comparison to heavy bolters even worse. Champion upgrades again all have their value. The plasma pistol is kind of default if you take a melee weapon, but that’s only because the poor wording of the champion option list doesn’t allow you to take a combi weapon with one.

            And, yeah, even if the balance between special & heavy weapons, & between weapon options on the champion, are good enough, there’s no reason under PR not to take them (again, not because they’re free, but because the PR system already made you pay for them when you bought the unit). A naked squad with no upgrades is technically allowed but highly, highly discouraged under PR. But, dang it, boring squads should be discouraged! IMO every champion should have the gear to stand out! Every CSM squad should have an icon! The game is better for it! I don’t want a system that even tries to put dull, boring, generic choices on equal footing with cool, interesting ones!

          • Heinz Fiction

            Yeah things are a litle different within the hive fleet. You have the fleshborer as a cheap basic weapon and then the devourer which is a fleshborer with 2 more shots and 6″ more range and then the deathspitter which is a devourer with 1 more strength and 1 more AP, so it’s a none-choice which to take if you don’t have to pay for it.

            Things are a little (but not much) different with my Eldar, as there are certain cases where the bright lance or the scatter laser outperform the starcannon which is still the best weapon overall (and therefore the most expensive). The shuriken cannon ssems to have it’S place as it doesn’t get the modifier for moving but if points are a non-issue it’s still hard to justify.

            Sure GW could have attempted to make all weapons equally strong but it’s very clear they haven’t and chose to balance them out via points instead.

      • Azhrarn

        the loss of granularity opens the game up to massive abuse.
        The PL system literally does not work unless you know you can trust the person you’re playing against. At an LFGS you can not rely on this system at all, and the matched play rules would be the only viable option. Among friends and with prior discussion for narrative, I can see PL working.

        • Malisteen

          It really doesn’t, though? Again, the PL system has cost of upgrades built into it. What it does is discourage naked squads by tacking the cost of upgrades onto the cost of the squad to begin with, which I for one prefer, because naked squads are boring as heck. And the difference between weapon options isn’t really that huge, and in many cases is dramatically less than what the points system implies.

          Right now a heldrake’s flamer is priced 30 points higher than the autocannon, and yeah, it’s better, but not 30 points better. The daemon prince’s sword is priced 30 points more than a pair of claws, and the pair of claws are OBJECTIVELY BETTER than the sword. Or let’s take havocs. Lascannons are a lot more expensive than heavy bolters, but even in the PR system there are lots of jobs that heavy bolters are just better at, so even then you might still field them over the lascannons. Do you really think melta guns and plasma guns are so different in quality that melta guns need to be more expensive for people to field plasma? Heck, plasma’s better for a lot of jobs, so why should melta pay an extra tax?

          I admit that I haven’t absorbed much beyond the chaos marine rules yet, but I don’t see any major balance problems arising from using PR instead of points there. Some options arbitrarily get relatively better, some relatively worse, but the same could be said for the points system, and even in pick up games against min maxy waac type players, I’d rather the rules be pushing that player towards an army full of neat gear and upgrades than a boring vanilla one that shies away from interesting options because they come with a point tax for having fun.

        • ILikeToColourRed

          im finding PL great for learning the game, as there’s no reason not to take all the cool upgrades and wargear (and find out what is worth having)

    • GrenAcid

      PL is for normal people wanting stupid fun with plastic supersoldiers.
      WAAC and other perverts have standard pts system.

    • Red_Five_Standing_By

      PL are actually costed at the mid point between the unit fully kitted out and the bare bones version of the unit.

    • ILikeToColourRed

      PL is great for getting more games into an evening

      for example: my group got together on saturday with the new rules, and played a few 35 PL games just to work out how to play without worrying about winning

  • Slackermagee

    Can’t include this on the “commonly missed rules” article because it locked: There is no +1 attack charge bonus now, universally. Specific units get it but not everyone.

    Maybe don’t charge with your Tacs into Genestealers expecting good things.

  • GiftoftheMagi

    I saw the rules, what is planned. I saw all the changes, the renaming. I read the terrible, terrible fluff and stories.

    Yeah. After playing this game for about 20 years, I’m done. The rules are at best average, the story is now godsawful and I just don’t have the energy anymore to reboot all the history and names in my head simply because GW forgot to hire decent writers and are on an IP rush. I know the response will likely be “Leave, we don’t care” and that’s fine…it is pretty much the general mentality of the community that they don’t care about their community. I really tried to hold on but…there are better, cheaper games with better rules and fluff out there.

    • Horus84cmd
    • Malisteen

      I’m confused about when exactly you thought the fluff was better. It has always been shared universe game license fluff, and has always suffered from the flaws of such, with one or two gems standing out from the pile of tropes & cliches & in jokes. That hasn’t changed. Maybe you’re just old, now? I don’t mean to be flippant, but it’s a goofy toy soldiers game and always has been. It hasn’t really changed that much through the years. If you’ve been playing as long as you claim, then you should know 8e really isn’t a major departure. Far less of a jump in rules or tone than 2e to 3e was. I think the change here is more you than the game. Maybe you’ve just outgrown it. Nothing wrong with that.

      • ZeeLobby

        I dunno. If you really see no difference between the fluff of 3rd edition and the fluff of 8th, it might just be something you don’t get. There’s Deus ex every 3 pages now. Theres no sense of isolation and distance as before (Guilliman here just to save the day) etc. It’s very different writing. Heck, it’s different writers.

        • georgelabour

          So which novel written at the beginning of 3rd edition do you feel is the closest equivalent to Dark Imperium?

          How did it convey this sense of isolation and distance to you while also ignoring a focus on a main character that you seem to think was a failure of Dark Imperium?

          • ZeeLobby

            I mean where to start. Gaunts Ghosts, Eisenhorn, Ravenor. Dan Abnett wrote gold back then (and won awards for it). The Inquisition Wars Trilogy was great grimdark. I mean really 3rd was the start, the literature was pretty solid through mid-5th. Storm of Iron, Ciaphas Cain, Brotherhood of the Snake, etc. Graham McNeil put out some great stuff as well. And some of these won awards given by the sci-fi fiction community as a whole.

            Contrast that with the Beast Arises, and some of the other recent god-awful series, and I just don’t know what to say, lol.

            This is all regardless of the point that I was discussing the fluff, AKA, the codexes and content therein. Black Library writers still do a pretty solid job (though I really wish HH would end, as I think that sucks up a lot of their time). But the codex and campaign fiction was just so much better back then. The Tyranid 3rd edition release was just amazing. From all the fictional shorts in White Dwarf, to the Imperial perspective of the codex, it just oozed unknowns and a sense of helplessness.

            The new stuff is super trope-heavy and comic booky. Good lord, no one I know thinks the Gathering Storm series was a good read. Most people i’ve talked to had to slog through books 1 and 2 and I think I only know one that made it through 3. It’s just all over the place. And good lord, the last minute gimmicks to keep characters with models alive, or introduce the latest release, are just peppered throughout.

          • georgelabour

            I asked for one novel and you gave a library. Many of which were not written in the time frame specific. It’s also worth noting very few of those were written with the intent of fleshing out ongoing events taking place during the edition they were published in.

            Nor did I bring up anything outside the singular example of a novel written specifically for the new edition.

            So I am afraid you did not fulfill the request made of you. Please try again.

          • ZeeLobby

            3rd through 5th is when most of those were written. And back then 40K didn’t have a ton of “ongoing events”. That was just the state of the universe.

            I mean you’re the one that injected that novel, my whole discussion never involved that novel in the first place. So way to ask for answers to questions that were never part of the discussion. Please try again.

          • georgelabour

            You’re the one whining over how terrible the fluff in this new edition is.

            As that is limited to a rule book and one novel I fail to see how I’m asking to much. Especially when you yourself made the claims you’re now being asked to provide support for.

          • ZeeLobby

            So I lump gathering storms into 8th edition fluff. To be honest most of 7th edition fluff was pretty tosh as well. Beast arises was a pretty horrible series of novels, but occasionally their novels are good, but gathering storms was just dreadful, and the new BA incident is just sad. I mean I never started this conversation with you to begin with, so you can just continue it without me if you like. I don’t see why I have to prove anything to you, when I wasn’t discussing this with you in the first place.

            And I know you love the word whine, but it’s OK for people to have opinions different than yours and discuss them. One day you’ll grow older and realize this, but it’s OK, you got tons of angst to keep you going until then.

          • georgelabour

            Ah, so you cherry pick which edition gets what fluff based on what you want your outcome to be.

            Interesting.

            It still doesn’t actually meet the simple criteria requested several posts ago but I’m sure you’ll get around to that eventually…

          • ZeeLobby

            LoL. you really don’t have to respond to my comments anymore. You clearly want to just pick fights. I’ll ignore yours if you ignore mine. That’s fine with me.

      • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

        it is really poor now. The whole feeling has changed. I’ve suspected for a while that GW had actually lost the sense of what the core features of their own franchise were. Latest developments have confirmed that suspicion.

      • GiftoftheMagi

        I started with Rogue Trader aka 1st edition. It was the lore and stories that got me into the game to start with, and the stories that drove me to make my own in my matches.

    • memitchell

      You have valid points. The rules do seem austere. Haven’t tried them, I might love them. Or, not. If by “renaming” you mean Ynnari, or whatever Eldar are called, then yes. And, I’m not sold on the Nasty Gash splitting the Imperium into Candyland and Chaosland, either. So, meat for discussion. Now, threatening to leave does sort of put a damper on further conversation. Don’t blame us if the messenger shoots himself.

      • GiftoftheMagi

        The Ynnari is newish so I give it a pass, but renaming the Eldar into the Aeldari, the Dark Eldar into the Drukhari, the Tau to the T’au, etc doesn’t make a lot of sense beyond “we are changing this because of IPs”…which they already owned.

        And it is more that…I am leaving the game as it is now because there is no more appeal to me in it. In a way, it is fatigue over a rush of barely-formulated changes in the story and structure of the game, added in with rapid changes to the very armies we play.

        Maybe I will come back to it after a while. Give it a couple of years or so and see what happens. And yeah I get it. But without the story, without the logic and structure…without the ability to weave a story in my mind as the battle plays out…I find no joy in a game. It’s not fun for me to just move pieces around a board to win. I can do it, but I don’t find any pleasure in it. And at that point, I have to ask myself “why am I doing this?”

        • memitchell

          I liked the 40K background( kind of eroding, but whatever). I like the 40K boardgames. I like painting the minis (for the boardgames, painting armies is a chore). I don’t like list building. I don’t like bloat. And, I didn’t really like the rules from 3rd on. And, I do like the new Genestealer Cult. And, Shadow War (it’s Necromunda, except I don’t have to supply opponents with figs). Maybe I’ll like 8th.

    • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

      I sympathise. I have no desire to buy bland rules when I’ve recently bought brilliant ones. I liked 7th, it was fine between friends. Now the game is boiled down into a tournament game with none of the awkward things that annoyed TOs, templates, angles etc, no sudden freak results (explosions etc) that tournie players hate. Sadly this has taken all the fun and tactics out too.

      Recent IP changes and plot developments are very poor.

      I’ll be sitting out the start of this edition. Maybe all of it too, depends on how the codexes are. There are indeed loads of other games to play.

  • uatu13

    Maybe I’m completely blind, but how do you actually buy the t-shirt?

  • Spacefrisian

    Same song again “havent played since edition X. I will start this edition anew”…Or….”dont like it, i’ll sit this one out”. Dont change interwebz folks.

  • eMtoN

    I played about 10 games over the weekend and couldn’t be happier with this edition. We spent far more time actually playing the game And far less time deciphering rule interactions.

    I got started with 40k in 5th edition. During 7th I was just about ready to give up because it was just one incredibly complicated mess. Every single game felt like a chore. This one is different. I’m not flipping through page after page just to figure out movement or a particular rule interaction. Nor am I spending an hour pregame just to get started.

    Everything is much more clear and certainly easier to understand. I think it’s a home run.

  • Xodis

    Im really loving this new edition, but its a seriously big step back to not provide free datascrolls on PDFs. I dont really think it would have hurt their sales of Indexs too much (a lot of people just hate the idea of going digital, but the acquired goodwill from doing so would have been more than enough to make up for it.

  • georgelabour

    Wow. The nit picking brigade has gone full on crazy homeless guy with some of these comments.

    People complaining that GW’s new rules set requires them to…go and acquire new rules.

    Because apparently every other company out there just beams them straight into their brains.

    Whinging over how GW didn’t sneak into their houses at night to plant datasheets into boxes of product distributed over the last few decades.

    I guess they were still using the Dark Millenium booklets for army building or something.

    And of course the guy who in previous threads pined for the days of blander, simpler, more balanced editions , AND who like to complain about having to wait for books to bring a faction in line with other forces…

    Whining about the books that updatse every faction at once being blander, simpler, and updating every faction at once….

    And I’m sure that some of those chaps will be along shortly to justify their irrational and or inconsistent antics with spurious claims about how one novel lacks as much information, and depth as all the material written across the better part of a decade….