40K: Eighth Edition First Impressions

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After getting in a game or two of Eighth Edition, I have become an expert.

It’s true–where last week I was but a humble n00b, greener than a frog in an algae factory, this week I come before you a seasoned veteran, already grown weary and jaded with the whole thing. After all I killed a single tyranid in battle? What’s left to do? Like Alexander, I am now weeping for there are no worlds left to conquer.

But, before I let the ennui of it all consume me, I figured I’d pass on a bit of the wisdom I gleaned from my eighth edition experience (two games). Here’s the gist of it–the system is a ton of fun. It’s fast, it still feels like there’s a lot that’s potentially viable, and the hope has yet to be ground from the mechanics. The core rules are simple, but the advanced/terrain rules and the individual unit listings add a lot of depth to the base mechanics. So without further ado, here’s what I, former n00b, now seasoned expert have to say about eighth.

Eighth Edition is Fast

I mean this one in every sense of the word. The game plays fast–it took a little bit to get past the hurdles of learning how to setup a game, but once that was done the game didn’t take long to play out. Individual units are fast–the first game I played on was on a 4 foot table, and by the end of the first turn a unit of Genestealers charged basically all the way into my deployment zone, and a Mawloc Edit:Trygon and friends were on my doorstep. And–perhaps most importantly–the game can be picked up pretty fast. It didn’t take long to get the hang of the basics of the game. Now mind you I’d had a little wargames experience before, but by and large the rules were straightforward enough that I understood how they were meant to interact. Building an army wasn’t super tedious–admittedly we used the Power Rating Rules instead of the actual point costs which I’m sure makes me a philistine, but it was easy to get a sense for what a well-filled out army list might feel like.

Eighth is Furious

Odds are real good that something exciting will be happening every turn of the game. It feels like they’ve stripped away a lot of the tedium–there was never a moment where it felt like there wasn’t something to do. Never a turn that was just “oh I guess I’ll shove my guys over here.” Like we said, the units are faster. Their threat ranges longer–even for supposed “short range weapons.” Whatever your army you’ll have no trouble bringing your weapons to bear on your foe. Which is another thing about the game–it feels like there’s always some option open to you. It feels like everything has the potential at least to hit hard when needed–whether the harvesting talons of Genestealers, the choppas mixed in with a mob of Boys or the massed fire of a squad of Fire Warriors–everything can be deadly. At least to some small degree.

Eighth Edition is Fun

Pictured, a whole council of people having “fun.”

Eighth Edition is fun to play. Even though I got swarmed by a horde of literally 70,000 Genestealers on turn 1, I still had fun with the game. I never felt like I was denied any options because of the rules–I never felt like I was completely and irrevocably hosed by them either (I mean there’s only eight or so pages of rules, not counting all the others, what do you expect?). It felt like even though I had been charged there were still decisions to be made–who should overwatch, which target do I try and hit, etc. Each of these decisions felt like it mattered. And that makes the game feel fun.

Eighth Edition is Flexible

This last point might be a little more contentious. Because admittedly right now we only have the Indices, and have to wait for the various Codices to get released and an actual metagame to start forming–but it feels like the rules can support a wide variety of army types. Even the strictest battle-forged, matched play force org chart has a ton of options available to you. Want to take a lot of elites? We’ve got you covered. Fast attack guys? Sounds like you’ve got an Outrider detachment. And–at least right now, during the heady days of everything being new–it still feels like things have had enough of an overhaul to make just about any unit effective. I don’t know that there’ll be any one army list or faction that dominates the tournament scene–the game can support such a wide variety of playstyles, I feel like it’ll always keep the meta shifting and growing and interesting.

What about the rest of you? Have you played/watched people play the new edition yet? If so, how much did your mileage vary? What do you think of the new edition and how it plays?

  • Mike X (Official)

    Wait, 8th is out already? The web site says “pre-order”. Where can I download the free rules/stats for my army?

    • Nathaniel Wright

      Shops have demo copies available, most are open to running demo games.

      • Daniel R Weber

        Watched some guys playing with the shop review rulebooks last night.

    • Spacefrisian

      With all these youtube vids and articles you would think it was.

      • piglette

        It’s a bit annoying tbh.

    • Daniel R Weber

      Shop copies, rules leaked on line, review copies for blogs and websites…it’s ‘out’ sorta. Mere mortals have to wait for this coming weekend.

    • Karru

      Google around, the all 8th edition rules, including Indexes, leaked last week and many have been playing with those. If you can’t find it, you can go check the stores, they should have demos available to test out.

    • uatu13

      GW sent out preview copies for the indexes and Dark Imperium to most stores on the 3rd, so it’s not that hard to fine the rules or a demo game.

      I’ve played 2-3 8th games so far, and it’s been pretty damn fun. The game is really fast and vicious, but highly entertaining.

      • Tshiva keln

        2-3 games seems an odd thing to say. Doesn’t feel like you should have lost count by then! With a name like Uatu I would expect you to be more precise 😉

        • uatu13

          Well, one game I half played on the side of someone that was just learning 8th, so I guess it’s more like 2.5 games if you demand precision 😉

      • mathhammer

        Unless your shop is trying to sell the demo indexes….

    • ZeeLobby

      There’s even some photos of entire books floating around the webs.

    • NNextremNN

      The internet? Do you live under a rock?

      • Mike X (Official)

        Where on the GW web site? Otherwise it’s ILLEGAL.

        • NNextremNN

          Several stores also have demo books they show players. So even if you want to be Mr. Whiteknight it’s not like these rules are still unknown.

  • Crevab

    I hope the codices will be rather different than the indices.

    • Karru

      They will be. A lot better.

      The Battle Tomes are much more fleshed out and interesting for the armies that have them, compared to the Grand Alliance books. The Indexes were released so people can start playing the game.

      • Crevab

        I’m also hoping they change stuff that was changed for the Indices. SM example: No more dreadnought or thunderfire droppods. Or they brought back the land raider terminus ultra and made it the marine super heavy! For the Ultramarines faction…

      • AircoolUK

        Yeah, I do like the Battletomes. Plenty of fluff (which is where you’ll also find background on the units), nice artwork, miniatures then usually six different ‘factions’ (such as Marine Chapters, Tau Septs, Necron Dynasties etc…), along with their colour schemes and bonus rules. Then there’s the battalion warscrolls which give you a bonus for taking the required minimum units (you actually have to pay points for this warscroll as well).

        There’s also all the charts needed for a Path to Glory campaign as well as some flavourful scenario’s.

    • ZeeLobby

      I just hope they get here sooner rather than latter. Some AoS factions have just been neglected at this point.

  • Karru

    I am still pretty positive about 8th edition and very excited about the future of rules for it. The codices are needed fast if GW wants to keep players interested, as the current books are very, very bland. Now, before anyone jumps to the “IT’SASTOPGAPSOPEOPLEGETTOPLAY!!!” comment, I know this. I’m just stating a fact here and that GW needs to focus on the codices first and foremost after release. The reason why I emphasis this is because of AoS. For every old faction, they release 2 new factions, at least that’s what it seems. Oh, you’d like to play Empire? Too bad, here’s some Steampunk Top Hats instead! I don’t want to see the same happen in 40k. With Guilmarines coming down the pipeline, I am worried we’ll see another Sigmarine inspired release schedule, where pretty much every 2nd release for the game is Guilmarines, instead of, you know, an old faction people would really like to play properly.

    My biggest gripe is still the blasts, but ignoring that for now as I am sure that, at least the regulars have heard enough of my ramblings about that, so I’m going to talk about the second biggest. Unnecessary splitting of certain units. The biggest is Command Squad for both SM and Imperial Guard. Both are now basically worthless and you are much better off with taking the “important models” outside of it and just take some other “bodyguard” unit instead. The Imperial Guard one especially stings as there is literally no reason to take it over a Commissar. You no longer need a Vox-caster in the Command Squad as the rule itself states you only need to be within 3″ of a Vox-caster, which includes the Vox inside an Infantry Squad. The +1 Ld from the banner is pointless as you can get a Commissar for 3pts less who does the same but better, while also being protected as Commissars are Characters, unlike the Command Squad and as such cannot be targeted.

    The biggest annoyance from this is Snipers. Because Company Commanders no longer can remain within units nor can they shout out orders from a Chimera, they have to stand “out in the open” so to speak. Sure, you can stick them behind LoS blocking terrain as the Orders no longer need LoS, but you still need to move. Static armies no longer work and the moment your Company Commander steps into the LoS of a sniper, they are basically dead. Toughness 3, 4 Wounds and a 5++ save won’t be protecting the Commander for long. You are basically forced to spam them, because otherwise you will find yourself without a Commander.

    • Steven Hyche

      Thats my main AoS gripe. Needs more Khorne releases

    • Tshiva keln

      I’ve not seen the rules for this splitting of units but have heard several complaints and it does seem odd. With most rules, even if I don’t like them, I can usually see where they are coming from. I don’t see the reason behind this (other than flexibility of less models) and would be interested to know if there is one you are aware of, having read them?

      • Karru

        Personally, I seriously have a hard time seeing where they are coming from in most cases. The SM Command Squad for example is now 4 Entries, the Company Champion, Banner Bearer, Apothecary and 3 Veterans. Excluding the Veterans, all of those are now single model characters, so they benefit from the character “bonus” which is more wounds and the 12″ “you can’t target me” rule. SM Command Squad at least as the rule for protecting Characters, but the Guard Command Squad does not have this rule.

        The Guard Command Squad honestly feels pointless. 4 guys with a guard statline, Toughness 3 and a 5+ save, and each can be upgraded like before. Medic, Standard Bearer, Special/Heavy Weapons and Vox-caster. The medic is nice, but not worth the investment. On a 4+, he can attempt to heal a character or a unit within 3″. If he succeeds, he heals D3 wounds or returns one model to the unit. The banner gives a +1 Ld to units within 6″ and the Vox gives the 18″ order range, when within 3″ of an Officer.

        They don’t have anything that would help an Imperial Guard character. The healing could be considered one, but the Command Squad is so weak that it can be one-shotted very easily. Meanwhile they lack the most important special rule which is the “bodyguard” rule that the SM Command Squad has which would protect the Commanders from Mortal Wounds.

        The other annoyance is the amount of Elite slots people now have to spam. With Guard it really isn’t a problem as our HQs are 30pts a piece and you need a lot of them, but SM is having a harder time. Their HQs aren’t exactly the cheapest and if you want more than just Support Characters, you are going to need to take that extra detachment for Elites most likely.

        • Tshiva keln

          Hmm, sounds odd. Guess you have to surround yourself with guard blobs to block Los? Thanks for the reply.

          • 301stFeinminsterArmoured

            Or hide behind a tank.

        • Andrew B

          You mention the ’12” ‘you can’t target me’ rule’ for characters, but it isn’t actually in the rulebook. It just says that characters can only be targeted if they are the closest unit in LOS; nothing about having to be outside 12″ range. http://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/25037b5bfe882d1d35c0402f4e8a36ecb1d1479410fa4dd3784f5007400ba823.jpg

          • Karru

            Oh… Well now, it seems that a while back when the rumours were flying about, there was the 12″ “you can’t target me” rule rumour going strong. Seems I just “assumed” it was there.

          • Andrew B

            I remember seeing that as well. I even thought it might have been the Warhammer-Community post on Characters but I went and checked and it doesn’t mention 12″ either.

          • Randy Randalman

            That’s because a lot of your “gripes” aren’t based on actual game play or anything in the rulebook, but instead on the rumors from the angry few who hate everything. To that end, Astra Militarum are probably the strongest faction out of the gate and don’t need special bodyguard rules. Besides, you can’t target the characters anyway if any other units are in the way (and Conscripts are the best infantry for the points in the game right now).

          • Karru

            Of course this is the case Randy, of course.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            Guard are a ridiculously strong faction if you have an artillery park surrounded by 200 conscripts. Try using Leman Russes and you’ll find your army seriously nerfed. Balanced edition GW?

          • Titus

            There was one. That particular leak wss deemed false with some truth. A couple days later all the leaks happened, so I can see why there was confusion.

      • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

        It was the ultimate way to fix death stars by making multi character units impossible.

        Like the grav fix for monstrous creatures it will doubtless cause more problems than it solves.

        • 301stFeinminsterArmoured

          It didn’t really fix Death Stars, though, because you still get all of those buffs, are still dealing with characters being hard to single out (even with snipers and the Death Jester, there are ways that all but 4 armies have to counter headhunting units), and, unless their unit entries say otherwise, you can run multiples of each character to layer the buffs. And if you deploy right, singling out is nigh impossible.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            Well it has fixed the multi-faction-multi-character unit Death Stars. But I think what we have now is single characters who function like a Death Star. Charge Girlyman and a supporting squad about and there isn’t much that can deal with it.

          • 301stFeinminsterArmoured

            True, keying buffs to subfactions helps in that regard.

        • Charon

          To be fair they just traded deathstars for deathballs. As there is no mechanic for punishing multiple units in the same place and plenty of buff auras there is nothing stopping you to concentrate all your “reroll hit, wound, saves, moral,…” in one place.
          Papa Smurf is a prime example of this buffing even every unit.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            True.

    • AircoolUK

      Just try and keep your characters out of LoS of the snipers. The new game requires a lot of positioning and remember that intervening models both enemy and friendly block LoS.

      If your opponent deploys his snipers before you’ve placed any characters, you know he’s trying to set up a kill box. You have two choices, take the bait and set up some sort of ‘trap’ or play his game and set up your characters out of LoS.

      Alternatively, bait his snipers by placing a tempting and tasty character first to force your opponent to set up his snipers, then park a ruddy huge tank in front of your character, or something that’s a serious threat to the snipers.

      It’s basic tactical stuff; avoid getting exposed and priorities threats.

      • Karru

        Some very minor problems here that I feel like I need to point out.

        First of all, any sort of elevation and infantry no longer blocks the LoS to your commander, unless you model for advantage (place your Infantry Squads on rocks to gain height, give your commander kneeling legs and so on). Remember, there is no requirement on how much of the model has to be visible. If I see something like the end of a cane or a Skull-probe attached to the guy, I see the model.

        You also need to move, constantly. You cannot, under most circumstances, remain static any more. You bunch up and fortify a corner, you lose. The damage output of Guard at range is no longer there. You need to be within that 12″ range most of the time, because you need to get those Rapid Fire 2 Lasguns working overtime.

        This leads to the third issue, most Snipers enjoy from cover bonuses. For example, Scouts with Camo Cloaks gain +2 from Cover. You are looking at 2+ save models before you get modifiers and that unit costs barely anything really. Then you have monsters like Tellion running around for SM, giving Scouts +1 to-hit while he is shooting 2 Strength 4 AP -1 gun with D3 damage each shot.

        That means that Snipers have 0 need to “go after tempting and tasty characters”. Stick them in a tall ruin, or a hill with trees on it and if nothing else, wait for the enemy to be forced closer and then just snipe the characters. Sure, you have the option to keep your characters behind LoS blocking terrain with a Vox from a backfield Infantry Squad, but you are going to need a few of those and you have to avoid leaving an 18″ bubble with your remaining squads.

        The main problem I have is the unnecessary splitting. There was absolutely no reason to split the Guard Command Squads. They have ALWAYS been their own unique thing, it wasn’t the same as SM with their Command Squad or Orks with Nobz and a Warboss. The Command Squad has been an iconic unit within Guard, Guard could never take an HQ outside the Command Squad in the past before Lord Commissar (excluding named characters), but now it is utterly irrelevant. You have 0 need for it, as it can be killed very easily and no longer offers any protection or anything else for that matter that other units couldn’t do better.

        • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

          My first game felt like AoS. Devolved into a big huddle in the table middle. With no tank shock and no choice for a risky deepstrike, bubblewrap reigns supreme.

          • Koonitz

            Remembering that AoS is predominantly melee, I feel the need to compare it to 40k games pitting two predominantly melee armies against each other.

            In most editions of 40k, those games tended to ‘devolve’ into a giant mosh pit in the “spot the first unit smashed into the enemy” (usually in the middle, but some fast armies can push that skirmish line into the enemy zone).

            That it’s happening in 8th Ed is nothing new. Play the mission, maneuver the board, don’t let yourself get trapped in that mosh pit.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            In 7th you could deepstrike behind the lines, push through with tank shock, multi charge was harder, you couldnt bring extra units in with consolidation. These changes add to the AoS bundle feeling.

            Conversely shooting games are more static because even though penalties for moving and firing are less there is no advantage in outflanking or getting rear shots or protecting side armour etc.

          • Crablezworth

            Yeah the loss of vehicle fire arcs and armour facings is a step in the wrong direction.

    • Charon

      3 major issues:
      PSI – the rule of one in matched is just stupid. It is not really different than before: pick your most powerful psyker to do the spells, all other can spam smite. Not really a difference to cast all spells with your bigges sorc and the rest is relegated to battery duty.
      Also No matter if lvl1 or lvl 3, no change in the casting pattern whatsoever. The difference between most psykers is that one can spam smite cheaper than the other.

      Summoning – While summoning was broken in 7th, it is not exactly the other side of the scale in 8th. Too much restrictions and downsides for no real gain. The praised flexibility is utterly random and it is worse than deepstrike in every single aspect. “sorry you could not bring in the units you wanted, your roll is too low, also you had to stop moving for a turn and you are not in range for a charge anyways as you have to stick within 12″ of the summoner. Oh yes, it costs normal points and you can still peril”
      Also it is inconsistent. While summoning new units does cost points, replenishing or reviving your imperial unit is free.

      Bland and boring – every unit basically does the same, you are basically always in range for whatever you want to do and the dame feels like it steers itself instead of you actually have an impact on whats going on.
      It is always amazing how these articles give examples of “new depht and complexety” and then resume to recite rules that were basic since at least 2 editions.

      • Karru

        Right on the money there. Summoning was again done wrong in my opinion. I don’t mind the point cost thing at all, as we have seen in both AoS and 40k what happens if you make Summoning free. The real problem comes from the risk-reward system it has, as the risk is quite high and the reward is mediocre at best.

        How they should have done summoning in the first place is just the way CSM did it in 4th edition. Instead of Icons, you use Psykers. You buy your Summoned units, then you place them onto the board at the end of your movement phase if you so desire within 12″ of the Psyker, no rolling as there are no reserves any more. Just make it so that the Psyker can’t do anything that round as he is too busy summoning stuff.

        As it currently stands, I find Daemons to be somewhat gimped. They have nothing they can DS without the Summoning and unlike DS, Summoning is risky.

        The bland and boring part is a given, but this has been discussed to death by this point. Indexes are a stopgap so people can play 8th edition with points. They couldn’t make each faction their own fully fleshed out army until the codices come out. Now the problem of course is GW. Will they do the smart thing and release codices for all factions as quickly as possible or will they do the AoS route and release 2 new factions and 1 Guilmarine release per Faction update.

        • Steven Hyche

          While I agree with your critique of some of the rules demoms are far from gimped. Ive played 3 games with demons and won them all. (Tau necrons and marines)

          Demons are in a much better place now. In 40k 7th summoning was the only thing that made them useable. Now they offer much more.

          • Karru

            I might have worded it badly, but I didn’t mean that Daemons were bad or anything as a whole. I meant that they were gimped on the DS department, as Daemons had ways to DS their units in before, but now thanks to summoning, that is no longer an option. It would open up even more possibilities for Daemons if they had some units with the DS ability.

            All other armies in the game have some way of delivering their units right into the thick of things, through deep strike or infiltrate, but Daemons have none of those, most likely due to the Summoning rule they are “supposed to” use instead.

          • Steven Hyche

            In theory the flexibility is nice. It supposed to (on paper) all you to pick the best unit for a job each battle. In a tournament that would seem strong due to not knowing your opponent each round.

            The issue is each demon faction is still pretty limited in what they can pick. Since as a whole they arent flexible that flexibility doesnt exist.

          • 301stFeinminsterArmoured

            Undivided CSM characters get around this limitation.

          • Charon

            Not really as the difference between the daemon units is minor. There is not a lot of difference between the different daemons and you are limited to your roll anyways. Bloodthirster would be awesone here? Bad news, rolling that 17 (1) to actually get the unit is not really going to happen anytime soon.
            Also you are limited heavily by transport capability. playing a 2000 points game but bringing 4000 points just to be flexible is not gonna happen.

          • 301stFeinminsterArmoured

            I disagree. Tzeentch is the majority of your shooting and ack-ack, Nurgle is easy to summon cannon fodder, Khorne dishes out the beats, and Slaanesh punishes your opponent’s aggro. Each allegiance does something different.

          • 301stFeinminsterArmoured

            Seeing as there is no longer any pregame movement, nor is there a 1-turn delay for putting units from reserve onto the Battlefield, I don’t see much issue in doing Daemons this way. The fact that any Chaos Character can summon now means that you can start with a pretty compact group of Characters, with or without a bodyguard unit (Terminators, or even a Typhon, if you have it), then grab whatever you want in your opening turn. Facing a gunline? Drop a mountain of Plague Bearers or Horrors (tbh, Plaguebearers are better at this because their resilience doesn’t eat your RP). Gonna get Charged? Bloodletters or Daemonettes. Only annoying thing I see, and it’s really just a game balance thing, is that Chaos has no Character models AFAIK in the Elites slot, so 5 units per turn is a basic cap for most summoning lists. Named Daemon characters are impossible to summon, but pretty much any other Daemon unit can be fielded via summoning, on average at double strength (20 lessers, or 3-5 Elite Daemons per roll).

          • Munn

            Bullcrap. By the end daemons were the most busted bullgak army in the whole game, especially when you allied Cabal. Don’t even bring that garbage in here.

          • Steven Hyche

            Why so salty you cant even stay on subject? This is 8th not 7th.

          • ZeeLobby

            wrong post.

          • Charon

            Ah… thats why Ynnari was winning everything left and right…. because daemons were so busted.

          • ZeeLobby

            Gotta agree with Munn. Demons we’re rock solid throughout 6th/7th. Like tournament solid. Flying circus was a top build, but even the basics like screamerstar, hounds and seekers were playable.

          • Steven Hyche

            THat was never in question… we are taling about 8th ….

          • ZeeLobby

            “In 40k 7th summoning was the only thing that made them useable.”

            Uh. That looks like 7th, lol. Summoning wasn’t the “only thing that made them usable”.

      • Munn

        The rule of 1 is absolutely great. There’s no reason you should be casting more than 1 each of the powers available, the days of winning the game in your first psychic phase are dead and good goddam riddance.
        Aww no more 1000pts free per turn of summoning? How will you ever survive.
        As for bland and boring, did you play 7th? Every unit in the game either did nothing meaningful ever or was frustratingly terrible to deal with. You actually have decisions to make now and it’s great.

        • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

          Rule of 1 is terrible. Why shouldn’t a psychic faction dominate using the psychic phase? Its what it is there for and will be weak in other areas to compensate.

    • Curtis Baldwin

      When AoS first came out I was worried they would squat everything. But I ended up liking the changes and enjoying the rules. Then I got excited when they released the fyreslayers, thinking they were going to update and expand on each existing faction. They did that with Chaos and added new units to define some of the different gods. But the steampunk dwarves really showed where the design studio at GW is headed. Same as with the ironjawz it seems clear (especially after reading the fluff for shadespire in the skirmish book) that GW is still going to use elves, men, and dwarves as their main races but is going to recreate or create new factions going forward more than adding on to established armies. Sylvaneth became its own force as an example or refreshing older models, but it seems pretty clear they are moving away from the old line to refresh and introduce new models. Whether that’s good our bad is a matter of personal preference.

      I don’t see GW doing this a whole lot with 40k. There are some older models that could be updated and there are some faction consolidations that could be made which would leave room for newer army factions if they so choose. But unlike the Old World which was destroyed, the 40k universe just underwent a shake up. It seems the main factions will retain who they are, even if there are some changes being made. The space marines were arguably in need of a model updat and these new marines were GWs way of introducing new models without destroying their established world and without (completely) invalidating existing SM armies. I have high hopes that each codex for each faction (or subfaction as we have for AoS) will add to the 40k armies that exist, while potentially giving room for new units or even factions.

    • Randy Randalman

      You don’t think GW is aware more than the player base that the codices are “needed” to keep people interested? The Frontline guys have already stated that pretty much every codex has been written and is ready to go in a prearranged release schedule. Furthermore, I disagree it will be needed for interest THAT quickly, as there a ton of different viable lists you can build already even with the so-called bland indices.

      These indexes are really what the game needed to give every army a bloat-cutting refresh.

      • Karru

        The usual. Not answering to you, ’cause you are the household troll, but for those that like to listen to an answer for a question of this type, I’ll give one.

        Yes. I do think that GW isn’t more aware than the player base which codices are needed to keep people interested. If GW wants to keep people interested, they release codices for the old armies first, then they start rolling out new factions. Why? Because this way the old guard will show the new blood how things are and aren’t going around telling them how bad the game is for most factions because they aren’t SM.

        AoS is enough proof that GW doesn’t really do research nor actually listen to what people are saying. I have yet to see one AoS release after GHB was released that doesn’t include a ton of questions that go along the lines of “So, when is Death getting a new Tome?”

        With Guilmarines released, it looks more like they are doing the AoS way of handling things than the one people would actually want. A good guess would be that 66% of the player base isn’t hopping with joy knowing that for the next year or two we’ll be getting mostly Guilmarines, Imperials and some Chaos while Xenos are left in the dust, until GW decides to release them a new faction while still completely ignoring the old ones, just like Death in AoS.

        This is what GW does these days. Instead of updating the old factions, they create new ones based on the old factions. This is thanks to one reason alone, money. GW believes that the best way to get customers to buy things is to make them have to buy an entirely new army for the same faction they collect just because GW can’t be bothered to release a book for them and the new army no longer has any of the old models in them. For example, the Steampunk Dwarves could have used most of the old Dwarven models on top of the new ones, but that would have been too sensible from GW.

      • Frank Krifka

        supposedly everything is ready to go and will be released within a year of the official launch

      • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

        If they are written already why are they risking goodwill by giving us a bland game? To gouge us for a bunch of cash for an Index they will soon replace?

      • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

        Also I disagree on the variety of builds. After Chaos Legions (a triumph) the Chaos Index is a piece of sh1t.

  • Chumba

    I wanted to continue to play my painstakingly converted ‘ard boyz army, I wasn’t “covered”. Bloodaxe shoota boyz with their own version of flak armour, instead eavy armor has been removed as a wargear option. Not every ork player wants to play green tide, I don’t care if it’s more efficient to swamp the enemy with 6+ boyz. To pull such a widely used piece of wargear with nothing to use the models for except basic boyz which looks stupid, is pretty inconsiderate. Wouldn’t have happened to marines.

    • Karru

      I feel you, as an Ork player and a Guard player. Guard players lost their Carapaces from everyone who could get them. Now our Company Commanders are nothing but target practice for Snipers because they have nothing to protect themselves as the Command Squad doesn’t do the protecting part very well.

      GW has taken this stand of “extremes” it feels like with the old “horde” armies. Orks either have the Green Tide or extremely expensive and low model count Mechanised available to them, there isn’t really any middle ground where you’d take ‘Eavy Boys on foot for example. Meanwhile Guard is in the same boat. You don’t want to “half-*ss” your army and go around 50-50 with your Infantry and vehicles, you really have to go hard with Infantry or you are severely gimped.

      • Chumba

        Agreed, pigeonholing factions like this is very concerning for me. Part of what drew me to orks was the customisation and creativity people could put into their army to make them unique. I don’t know what will be in to codices, but if we don’t get a 3rd troop choice in the form of ard boyz I don’t see myself playing 8th. My army just doesn’t fit the ork rules, might play kill team or something so I can atleast use some of the stuff.

        • Tshiva keln

          I think we will get lots of options as we look to be getting clan rules in the future. Just a case of how long a wait for the codex…

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah. This is really the issue. I’m sure flavor will come back eventually. The question is how long til it does?

        • LeroyJenkinss

          #ragequit! Do it… You won’t

          • Chumba

            Of course I will >_> nothing invested in 8th and like I said I have an alternative to use my stuff in the 40k setting. More a #dissapointmentquit tbh

        • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

          No customisation for CSM either. Now my Iron Warriors and Alpha Legion are identical. Such a backwards step after the excellent Chaos Legions book.

      • Darkcat

        GW: Why collect other faction when you can collect the best… Space marines and their new primaris battle brothers!
        Jk… I have AM leman russ tanks and veterans in chimera army… What pisses me is my rough riders still kind of suck imo…

        • Tyr

          Well, roughriders are much improved at least… maybe not a top-tier unit, but certainly usable. Much more so than theyve been in… possibly forever?

          Vets though… that just hurts. Only difference between vets and the usual grunts is they get more specials and BS3+. Yay. That really shows theyre battlehardened veterans… -__-

      • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

        Inquisition lost carapace too, so now my Ordo Mechanicum warband converted from Genecult+Skitarii is unuseable.

        • GrenAcid

          Why, your models have melted after you read them new rules?
          WYSWIG is rly stupid thing on anything than vehicles.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            They won’t feel like carapace guys and I converted them because I wanted them to look right, not wrong.

            First World problem I know but its thoughtless of GW.

    • 301stFeinminsterArmoured

      Nobz?

      • Chumba

        Then what are my actual nobz? We’ve yet to get Primaris nobz 😛

        • 301stFeinminsterArmoured

          Nobz with better kit? Just pointing out that Nobz right now are the only non-Character Infantry models in the Orks list right now with a 4+ armour save.

  • Byungwook Kim

    I have a question… Can monsters or vehicles go through a ruin? Or are they simply impassable to monsters and vehicles?

    • Karru

      They can. They cannot go up and down levels if the ruin has some, but they can “phase through” them.

      • Byungwook Kim

        Thanks

      • Crablezworth

        actually only infantry and stuff with fly can do that

        • Karru

          “Unless they can Fly, Vehicles, Monsters and Bikes can only end their move on the ground floor of the ruin.”

          Terrain no longer automatically cause any negatives to your movement, so a Monster can go through a ruin without any issues. They can also end their movement in the middle of the ruin, but only if they can be placed on the ground level.

          • Crevab

            Think he’s talking about how the Movement rules say you can’t go through walls, but the Ruins rules says Infantry are allowed to.

            It’s a rather big change as everything used to be able to Kool-Aid Man through anything classified as a Ruin

          • Karru

            Ah, that explains it.

          • Crablezworth

            Nothing lets vehicles or monsters move through walls.

      • AircoolUK

        Yeah, infantry will find gaps in the ruins, tank will just make their own.

        As for other intervening terrain, you measure the vertical distance as well as the horizontal distance.

        This means that some units (Eldar, Tyranids) will be able to scale large walls & terrain that other units (Space Marines, Guard, Necrons) cannot. Something that most people seem to have overlooked.

  • Manwiththedogs

    Anyone know how allies work in 8th?

    • Crevab

      For Matched play, you need to have at least one faction keyword in common. Like Imperium or Chaos

      • Manwiththedogs

        Gotcha, thanks.

      • AircoolUK

        Yep, really easy. No doubt that once the Codexes arrive (unless it’s already in the rules and I haven’t seen it), you’ll have to choose one overall Keyword for your army.

        For example, if you have a mixed Guard and Space Marine army, you’d need to use the Imperium keyword for picking units that fill out your Detachment.

        So you could have an ‘Imperium’ Battalion Detachment with your Command and Troops selected from Space Marines and your Heavy Support could be some Imperial Guard Tanks.

        However, if this were the case, then your Detachment would be classed as ‘Imperium’, so any rules that require the Keyword ‘Space Marines’, ‘Imperial Guard’ etc… when referring to Detachment abilities, you’re stuck with the ones that are for ‘Imperium’ Detachments only. This may influence whether Space Marines get to use their Chapter Tactics, if said Chapter Tactics require all your Space Marines to be in the same Detachment that share the Keyword .

        It’s a lot less complicated than it sounds, honest 🙂

  • Gustav

    Played my first 8th edition game yesterday. It was an absolute blast — I haven’t had that much fun with 40k in years. The indexes aren’t perfect, especially with only one store copy with 6 people playing, but I’ll take that.

  • Pete McGwire

    I have gotten several games of 8th in and I pretty much like all of the new game functionality. They talked about balancing ALL the units, but some of them went overboard and took a really hard NERF. Tripling the cost of a drop pod that can no longer deliver its occupants within flamer or melta bonus range seems absurd. I am sure many are happy to see that Alpha Strike capability gone but It is one of the most iconic Space Marine units but now will no longer be seen with that point cost and loss of utility. Also a lot unit options went away, like Deathwatch terminators with melta powerfists for instance. When you recently spent time making and painting these units and now they are gone it is very annoying.

    • 301stFeinminsterArmoured

      Meltafists are still in their wargear options. Check the leaks.

    • Parthis

      Drop pods needed the nerf.

      They were just broken for 35points. Marine Obj-Sec spammed Drop Pods, that’s your VPs folks… boring.

    • Parthis

      To be clear, no loadouts are invalidated. Your miniatures work as is. You may now prefer different loadouts, but your melta-fists are still a thing.

  • Majere613

    Posted my own impressions so far here: http://thetheleniccurriculum.blogspot.co.uk/2017/06/trying-8th-first-impressions.html

    The biggest takeaway for me so far is that multiple Overwatch can do one. I had no bother with it when you could at least fake it out but now units can overwatch everything Flamers are even more ridiculous. Quite how (or when) a unit is supposed to be firing at three units at once with the same guns I don’t know.

    • 301stFeinminsterArmoured

      Spray and pray, heavy on the pray.