Goatboy’s 40k: 8th Edition Hands-on First Impressions

8th is here and we can officially play with a paper book!  Let’s talk about how 8th is treating you.

May the false Emperor soil his golden throne and the true leaders of humanity come forth and bring about a true age of Darkness!  Or like – just do whatever you want.  8th is here and we can officially play with a paper book! I’ve played 4 games versus a buddy as we test Tournament lists for the upcoming American Team Championship next month.  The lists are extreme and no point in chatter on about the copy and paste nonsense.  Instead let’s talk about how 8th is treating you.

Personally I am having a good time with 8th edition.  It is a lot less stressful on movement and initial army building that is letting me have a lot of fun.  Its been a bit since I had fun – even in losing with a game of 40k.  But not everything is amazing.  There are a few things I hope will see clarified in the upcoming FAQs, thoughts, etc as people work through the rules.  In some ways the leak has been good for the game as we had 2 weeks of play testing to allow thoughts, rules, and other things to come to the top of the soup that is new the edition of 40k.

Blasts – Maybe?

Currently I do not like how Blasts have been handled.  The loss of a better chance to hit mixed with a lack of overall hits has really hurt them.  Look at how a Frag Grenade does d6 hits and a Plasma Cannon does only d3 hits.  It doesn’t feel right just yet and makes me think there could be some tweaks.  I do like how flamers are handled thought – as the auto hit mechanic makes them very interesting.  In fact I wonder if Blasts would be fixed if they allowed Auto hits of some sort back.  Like if they didn’t move or something.  I just don’t know yet as they just don’t feel right – or worth it right now.  I think that is because I am constantly rolling a 1 or 2 when I throw out a blast.  It feels like anything that is just a massed amount of shooting will end up being better then any sort of blast.  Looking at the Rapid Fire Battle Cannon versus the Avenger Gatling gun.  One is a guaranteed 12 shots that while not being as good at hurting a vehicle – does the same thing to most infantry.  The average on 2d6 comes out to 7 hits – and you still have to roll to hit.  It just doesn’t feel the same even though in most other 7th games you really only hit 3 or some models in any given unit.

Proofreading Please

I also feel some of the armies need some point tweaks as some things just feel to cheap.  Mix this with some “typos” and misreadings and we got some army issues.  I think this falls into the idea that while the game was heavily play tested – it was done in a way with more intent involved in using and utilizing the rules.  The competitive players look for ways to break/push the game into an advantage for their armies so instead of intent we look for pure RAW and that can generate issues.  If something can be read in multiple ways – you end up leaving a place for people to try and abuse the option.  We also need a good fine-tooth combing to see any typos, missing rules, and other things due to “combo’d” armies like the Ynarri and how things ride in their purchased vehicles.  The keyword mechanic is good – but when we have an over arching keyword that doesn’t have a consistent ruling across all options (Wraithguard and how they ride dirty in non Eldar vehicles). We’ll see as I feel this GW is a lot more prone to fix and change things as they get more data from events.

The Emerging Meta

I am also hoping events first try the initial rules, test out some things, and then make decisions to try and balance their own events games.  This comes from the push to remove low drop armies advantage of choosing to go first or not.  I feel that is an important factor to try and limit massed MSU armies and is a big factor in creating and building your own army.  I do think armies will end up being more balanced as events, missions, and game play start to work out good and bad lists.  But the first thing we need to do is let the game breathe, see if it has some sickness or not, and then look at performing surgery or engaging GW to help “fix” their game.

Hello Sisters

Overall I am pretty happy with most armies have some ability to work within the game.  The old good armies did get kicked down a few notches but as is usual with any game – there are better armies than others.  I am hoping army books will let some of these lackluster armies shine a bit more – but we’ll have to wait and see.  Currently I think a fixed army is the Sisters book as everything feels good, it has out of sequence abilities, good weapons, and the best keyword with Imperium added to all their units.  I do think there is some rules ambiguity with them right now – but will see if that gets answered or not.  It has to do with Acts of Faith and a unit that gives them more then one a turn.  When you get a bunch of these to activate and you got something that could be deemed a bit “much”.

Hopes and Dreams

I am hoping we see more Command Point powers.  I really like this bit of “management” and feel there is a lot of play with armies rules and abilities beyond simple rerolls.  It also means some armies will want more Command Points to use too – which again can make for some more interesting and balanced lists.  That is what I want most of the time – just balanced lists and games that let everyone have fun and a chance.  If not even a chance – just a good ability to remove as many of your opponents models as you can.

What have I found to be odd in the game?  The reroll & modifier mechanic is weird – but when you think of the amount of reroll 1’s and other abilities it makes sense.  It’s there to balance some reroll 1 options and still allow for some true misses.  It is a bit clunky but that is because are trying to break multiple editions rules that are locked in our brains.  In a few months this won’t matter at all as we have memorized all the internal bits and pieces and quickly devour any new “release”.  Right now I am excited to have some of the Chaos Space Marine legions filled in as that keyword feels lackluster beyond a few small character auras.

Currently I am playing Chaos armies as they are my bread and butter and take up the majority of my plastic crack armada.  In fact somehow I am building new Chaos guys with a ton of updated Berzerkers using AOS stuff.  Plus I bought a Lord of Skulls and finished building it last night.  It didn’t cut me like the last one I did for a client so I am happy.  It still has some time to stab me with the blood containers on the back.

~What are you building for the upcoming weeks?  Anything new or are you just bringing out the weird old stuff that might be good again?

  • Stealthbadger

    Criticises proof reading, on BoLS. Article repeats first line in paras one and two.

    Alanis, is this ironic?

    • orionburn

      Pot, meet kettle. I couldn’t roll my eyes hard enough at that.

      • Stealthbadger

        Goatboy if you read this I hope you don’t take offence. I just thought it was funny.

        Still, I look forward to next week’s article: Imperial Knights; Do people use them too much?

        • orionburn

          I do expect more for proper proofreading on a product that I’m buying vs a blog post, but still the irony is heavy.

    • ZeeLobby

      While a blog post and official rules to a game played by
      tens of thousands don’t really fall under the same caliber, it is pretty hilariously ironic :D.

    • SYSTem050

      Clearly boted and fixed now so i will suggest having a look at the last paragraph as well. Think you are missing the word we in this sentance ‘it is bit clunky but that is because are trying to break multiple editions rules that are locked in our brains”

    • Kreoss4u

      This is a blog post. GW is a publishing company. I seriously doubt that Goat Boy has in-house editors and proofreaders. It is seriously unreasonable to hold a blog post to the same standard as a publishing company.

      • euansmith

        Yeah, but it can be funny. 😉

    • Spacefrisian

      Dunno about proof reading, i wonder if they can count. Most say 12 pages core rules but i only see 8.

  • KreskinsESP

    I’ve played a few games of it, and while it’s not perfect, it’s as perfect as I think a game that works the way it does could be.

    It’s strange playing a GW game that I don’t have any major problems with, but it sure is nice.

    • UnpluggedBeta

      This could be the post-release hype carrying my high, but the games we’ve played generally gave us the same strange feeling, haha.

      • KreskinsESP

        I know a fair amount of my enjoyment came from the whole BRAND NEW GAME!!!! buzz, but I had enough fun to be confident that unless GW does something ridiculous to totally break the game, I’ll be enjoying it for a long, long while.

        Right now, I’m looking forward to a month from now, once everybody has had a chance to fully get their head around the game and which armies and units work and which armies and units don’t.

        • ZeeLobby

          My only concern is that, imo, the game has lost some depth. While The next several months will surely be filled with finding the best combos, I can’t help but already see some of the cracks of poor internal imbalance leading to stagnation (why take unit Y when unit X is just all around better? etc.)

          • KreskinsESP

            I’m hoping that the game will grow in depth as armies get proper releases.

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah. I guess my joy of 8th is heavily dependent on when the new Tau codex gets released, and whether they add the cool stuff back in, haha. Right now I have little desire to play them. I mean it gives me an excuse to buy more plastic crack elsewhere, but still, haha.

          • Severius_Tolluck

            True, but more units are at least tolerable. Before you would just not take Flagellants, or Rough riders! But now, especially with support squads / heroes, they become pretty decent.

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah, I mean there will be little gems here and there. I don’t know what I was hoping for, but it was disappointing to see some shelved units that probably still won’t leave the shelf. Who knows, maybe when everyone has new codexes it’ll be better.

          • Severius_Tolluck

            Hopefully so. At least all units can do something even if lack luster, versus nothing at all before.

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah, I mean that could have really been done by removing the negative play experience defensive abilities units had (flight, invisibility, etc.). I’m definitely glad those are gone.

          • Nyyppä

            Having played 2 games (not much but anyway) I’d say that it’s gained more depth. It’s now honestly tactical, not just netlisting.

          • ZeeLobby

            Now is definitely a fun time to play for sure, but the netlisting is guaranteed coming, lol. In order to avoid netlists there would have to be good internal balance, and right now that doesn’t exist. It’ll be interesting to see if GW can introduce new and flavorful codexes without them simply being better than the Index lists.

          • Shawn

            Here is an easy way to avoid net-listing that I’ve done for years: Never look for them.

          • ZeeLobby

            Oh. Agreed. It’s still coming though.

          • Shawn

            True enough.

          • Tushan

            Coming from the clueless kid who cant even figure out basic stuff:

            “it appears that chaos champions can summon chaos units to the field (using reinforcement points) by rolling over their power level on 3D6 (but khorne can only summon Khorne etc.)”

            “Nyyppä
            I missed that, though I have no idea why anyone would do that, ever, outside narrative matches.”

          • Nyyppä

            You’d have more traction with your bitter yet failing attempts to insult me if you’d just not been throwing multiple posts at me with your claim that 2 is more than 3 or 6.

            Anyway, I’m glad you came here the summoning though. Now, to illustrate how awesome that is let’s use an example. You have saved up the points to summon things you want/need and you are in a situation in which you need a lord of change to be summoned. Now, please do tell us all how likely it is to get the LoC summoned. Because that’s how useful summoning is in practice.

          • Tushan

            Poor little you, it has to be so dificult to prove blasts only hit at max 2 models in 7ed so you have to retort to lies and hyperboles.

            You have my sympathy.

            That you STILL cannot grasp the usefulness of summoning in 8ed is hardly my fault. genius that you aare you will surely figure it out eventually, ROFLMAO

          • Nyyppä

            Facts about max unit coherency and base sizes are lies and hyperboles? Right…..

            Thanks but I don’t need your projections.

            It’s not that I can’t grasp how it works. It’s that literally not one of the “summoning is awesome” crowd has been able to present any reasons why it’s better than or as good as just taking the right units with those points to begin with. You are right, it’s not your fault that you lack the ability to explain why additional risk for equal reward would be better than lesser risk for equal reward. I don’t think that anyone could explain that. I’m not sure why you even try though. It is without question logically just a lot dumber to try to summon the LoC instead of just taking it in the list. I mean it’s literally comparing my idea of getting the unit on the table in between deployment and turn 3 movement phase vs. your idea of less than 2% per turn to get the model on the table. Logic states that my 100% > your 2% and yet your claim is that this is not true.

          • Spacefrisian

            You need to think ahead now instead of conjuring a special rule out of nowhere., there is depth in a different way.

          • ZeeLobby

            HuH? I’m pretty sure I thought ahead way more often with jet packs then I ever have with any other army. Making sure to play the objective while finding intervening terrain to jump behind, while avoiding flanking assaults. It was a great rule, and a lot of fun and very thematic. I don’t see how making them more vanilla will make me somehow think more, or make the army any more fun to play…

      • Severius_Tolluck

        Ditto

  • somewhatdamaged

    Re-read the Ynnari rules Goatboy, only the Visarch and Yvraine get the rule that allows the rideshare.

  • Karru

    As many of the regulars here already know, I still don’t like what they did with Blasts and certain weapons. I’m also not that impressed with most vehicles in the game right now due to the amount of multi-wound weaponry and the price of vehicles compared to Infantry.

    I find almost all blasts to be utterly pointless compared to other heavy weapons in game right now as they usually offer better damage output against both Infantry and Monsters. It would be an easy fix to just make them Heavy X (D3 or D6 or 2D6 and so on). You roll to-hit, if you hit, you get to roll the amount of hits indicated by the bracket after the Heavy X. If you miss, your amount of shots is halved, rounding down.

    Now to those that aren’t regular here and think that I am just bashing the game, I absolutely love it. It’s not 5th edition, but it is billion times better than 7th was, that’s for sure. We did lose a lot of flavour with many armies and certain armies *cough* Tau *cough* basically lost their identity, but in time once the codices start to roll out, I’m hopeful that we’ll see the flavour return.

    So basically a good advice for everyone that is coming back to the game or are new to game, 8th edition is very good and solid. It offers a speedy game with fun army options and less BS. What it doesn’t offer really is flavour. Every army right now is diluted to their bare minimum. Chapter Tactics, Legion Traits and other similar rules are gone. Your army will most likely feel very grey the more you play it right now. Switching things around doesn’t really seem to affect the feel of the army that much.

    As for the things I have lined up for 8th edition in terms of building/painting, I’m expanding my Guard Infantry some more with additional Heavy Weapons Squads, Special Weapons Teams and Infantry Squads. I’m also planning on adding more Ogryns/Bullgryns, Commissars and Ministorum Priests into my army. For my Orks, I have to do some major restructuring. My old Mechanised Ork army isn’t really that fun to play this edition. It just doesn’t feel “Orky” any more. More Boys and Specialists with Kans in support. I might even get the Gorka/Morkanaut.

    My SM won’t be needing too many additions. It is already pretty solid this edition, only things I might add are those I was planning on doing in the first place, more Assault Marines, Devastators, Tactical Marines etc. My Eldar is in the same boat. Maybe more Dire Avengers as I only have 10.

    • euansmith

      I think Tau still taste faintly fishy; certainly not chicken.

      • Koen Diepen Van

        Tau is just anime type IG now. The whole flow of the army is dead.

        • euansmith

          Don’t crisis suits have flying?

          • Karru

            They do, but it doesn’t come up very often. Flying helps you hop over terrain, fight flying things in melee and Falling Back and shooting. I have yet to see a single Crisis Suit survive being charged and you don’t charge Flyers with your Suits.

          • Astmeister

            Some Crisis Suits should survive the charge of 10 tactical marines and such, right? I mean: Of course they do not survive being charged by 10+ Genestealers and guys in this weight class. But that is not suprising…

          • euansmith

            Maybe the Tau Codex will make them different to other factions by giving their battle suits Hull Points and a Damage Table 😉

        • Spacefrisian

          Stil no beamsabers and newtypes, its the wrong anim imo.

      • LordKrungharr

        IIRC the TAU are space cows

        • euansmith

          If that were true, their flyers would be called Bison and Longhorn 😉

          • Severius_Tolluck

            LOL just as Americans would be mostly insects or birds of prey by naming their aircraft?

          • euansmith

            Lions, tigers, bears, birds and insects, oh my.

          • Spacefrisian

            Texas rattle Cobras

    • Odras

      Curious, have you found Dire Avengers good? I thought they were quite overpriced at 17 points a model. Played a couple of games as well and didn’t get great results with them. How are you running them?

      • Karru

        I haven’t tested them out yet, I just want to get myself 10 more of them. 😀

        My Eldar army is pretty solid because I have basically little bit of everything with heavy emphasis on Infantry. I haven’t played with my Eldar as of yet so I don’t know how good they are though.

        • Defenestratus

          DA are pretty terrible. They aren’t very durable and their offensive firepower has gone way down as well.

          But at least they’re better than the “why are they even on the battlefield” guardians.

          • Spacefrisian

            Dark Eldar dark lance spam is back again.

      • electricsheep89

        I’ve found them decent in my first couple of games as eldar, but only when give invulnerable saves. Without them they’re far too expensive for what you get.

        In terms of being overcosted, Striking scorpions are one of the worst melee units in the game for me. 19 points for a couple of strength 4 attacks with no AP. Add to that, the scorpions claw is just a generic power fist and as it’s -1 to hit, it directly hinders the exarch’s exploding 6’s to hit ability.
        You may get the odd mortal wound on 6s with the mandiblasters, but considering how weak they are against armour/invulns otherwise, it’s unlikely you’re going to be targeting a unit with a decent save anyway.
        As a comparison, khorne bezerkers are 3 points cheaper and get upto six strength 5 attacks (as they can attack twice in assault). or for a point more can equip chain axes for upto four strength 6 attacks with ap -1.
        /endrant.

        • euansmith

          I see an “/endrant” there, but no, “/startrant”. What’s your secret?

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAYnwsKzIGA

          • electricsheep89

            Truth be told there was no definitive start, it just turned into a rant somewhere in the middle haha.

      • Spacefrisian

        Still les than the 40 points for a plasma Primaris dude, yup Primaris marines are thenew super elite force (936 points from dark millennium )

        • Odras

          Wow that is really expensive for the Primaris dudes. That is the same price as a wraithguard with wraithcannon, or 5 points more than wraithblade with swords.

          I haven’t played against or with Primaris marines yet, so I can’t tell if they are worth those points or not, but looking at their stats makes it hard to believe they will be.

    • Ronin

      Having played some 8th, I agree blasts feels really weak. The fact you have to roll for the blast radius and the number of hits feels cheap. I would rather it have been something like D6+3.

  • Frank O’Donnell

    I think you need to read the act of faith rules again Goat as no matter how many you have only one can be used by a unit a turn, also at 40pts for something you only get on a 4+ there not cheap.
    Even the free one requires a 2+ roll so the only one that’s 100% is the one from the saint

    • Munn

      His syntax isn’t great but I’m pretty sure when he says ‘a unit that gives them more than 1 per turn’ he means the army as a whole, not the individual unit. And if you play them RAW they’re worth WAY more than 40pts. Buying 2 for every 2 exorcists basically gives you half off an exorcist.

      • Frank O’Donnell

        Unless I’m missing something you could buy 100 of them & they still have no effect on an exorcist as they don’t have acts of faith only a shield of faith, but if I ever play you & you want me to use them that way I’ll be more then happy to lol

  • orionburn

    “I am hoping army books will let some of these lackluster armies shine a bit more – but we’ll have to wait and see.”

    I have to ask – what are people really expecting with the eventual release of codexes? Formations like those in AoS? Special rules? Is it going to be something that invalidates that army’s stats in the index? People keep hoping for some fix to their army with their release but I don’t get what they are looking for.

    • Stealthbadger

      Truthfully I hope none of the above as that’s how we got into the mess of 7th in the first place.

      • orionburn

        Oh, I agree, and I think the majority of people feel the same. With that being said I’m finding it more difficult to understand what benefit a codex is really going to add other than fluff. As a Dark Angels player I miss the more unique rules to Deathwing & Ravenwing. I actually liked formations but I didn’t agree with all the free things that were associated with it.

    • Odras

      I am hoping codexes give some more flavour to individual armies, and perhaps more benefit to individual key words. Quite a few of the keywords seem to have little to no effect and you can just use all the big ones such as Imperial, Aeldari etc without many drawbacks.

    • Crablezworth

      At this point I’d settle for a 100% carbon copy of the index with point costs and options listed instead of the power level jervis crap, at least pretend that adults used to play this game once lol.

      • Defenestratus

        I’m an adult and I only play power levels. In fact, it takes more of an adult to play a power level game than it does a points game due to the fact that you can’t be TFG and load up your vehicles with wargear options in power level games.

        It also takes an adult to see things from a perspective other than your own.

        • To play the actual game, you still need two adults. 😉

          • Superstew

            Do you mean “adult” as in “mature”? Or “adult” as in past the age of majority in your country? Because I have seen games where neither definition of adult is present.

        • ZeeLobby

          Huh? Power levels were added for laziness. I saw both kids and adults adding up points and having fun over the weekend. All PLs do is require the pregame discussion which became a necessity due to the imbalances of 6th/7th. I’d much rather talk about the game currently being played than the game about to be played. It’ll become even less of an issue with battlescribe and/or official app.

          • Shawn

            I wouldn’t say lazy Zee, I would have preferred the word convenient. You can use the power levels for quick set up and just pull out those units and your good to go. Besides, no one has a dozen or so lists made up ready to go, unless…nah, no one would use the Internet for any nefarious purposes.

          • ZeeLobby

            Lol. I dunno. I have 8 lists I want to try already written up. Our group always writes lists without knowing our opponents. Once apps are released (well besides battlescribe which already has 8th rules), point list writing will be even easier. It really seems like they wanted to emulate the static point values of WMH, without understanding that a fully loaded squad is very different from a default one as far as power level goes. So now we’re back to the pregame discussion of 7th.

          • Shawn

            Possibly. A friend of mine has been playing power level games and then seeing how many points they are, and they aren’t too far off the mark. There is some discrepancies,but it would appear that space marines are the ones that are really hurt in that regard. Everything costs more for us now and t-fire cannon is essentially useless. Oh, and figured out in the first game that while yeah, my LRC can assault, there’s no point, since they can’t do squat. I was hoping to just roll over a unit of boyz. And it would appear, that the ork vehicles fight better than orks and nearly on par with marines – messed up that is.

        • Odras

          I don’t see why there is so much argument about power level vs points cost.

          Power level is good for making it quicker to get a game started, but can result in 1 side having an advantage over the other. Power levels can result in a balanced game, but are also more open for abuse. Use it if you don’t care about those possible abuses or are playing with someone else who won’t abuse it.

          Points is better if you want to have a more min / max game. Use it if that is what you want.

          Neither is better, they are both applicable in different scenarios. I don’t see why anyone could say they would exclusively use one or the other. As always, the key is communication of expectations of a game with your opponent whether you know them or not.

          Exactly the same as in 7th ed. If I rocked up to the store with my tournament ready Eldar list looking for a pick-up game, that is ok as long as I say to my opponent beforehand, “hey are you ok playing my tournament ready Eldar list”. It is all about managing expectations.

    • Karru

      Personally, I’m hoping for the following. They add fluffy rules for the faction such as their own Psychic Powers and maybe some additional rules, like Chapter Tactics, Legion Tactics, Ork Clans and so on. Then you get unique Warlord Traits, Relics and other extra Equipment. Heck, we might even see GW put Stratagems in those books that the army can use.

      • orionburn

        I really like that idea of custom stratagems for individual armies. That would be a good way to work in some special strategies that ties in with fluff for each army.

      • Fergie0044

        Didn’t they say we’re getting faction specific Stratagems in one of their hype posts? If they’re going to push CPs as the new way of countering broken/unfluffy combinations I’d have thought they would get more attention.

        • davepak

          yes, they did. and it says in the main rulebook itself that we are getting codexes.

      • ZeeLobby

        If only they add jetpacks back to my Tau, lol.

      • Shawn

        Ding, ding, ding. Give this man a cigar! I bet you this is exactly what GW does. And, another index will be coming out in December called Chapter Approved. That shall be interesting to say the least.

    • gordonshumway

      GW claimed all existing forces would exist in 8th, that is kinda untrue for KDK. Yes you can mash some CSM and some Daemon units into the same detachment and call them “KDK”, but there is zero synergy and zero flavor. Hell for CSM alone there is no real differentiation or flavor between the Legions or specific chaos god alignments. The Marks of Chaos do next to nothing right now. I think most people are hoping armies will get interesting command abilities/stratagems that make some of the armies who got the shaft flavor-wise in 8th feel a little better to play. I mean the Chaos armywide is literal, actual garbage compared to almost any other army’s rule. It’s a corner case to get a 1/6 chance to get a 1/6 chance at another hit in CC. Garbage, plain and simple.

      I think if they include new special rules for fielding an all-any one god force it would feel much better for Chaos…and it wouldn’t be overpowered at all since Chaos essentially doesn’t have an armywide atm. Like give Mark of Khorne armies some sort of toned-down Blood for the Blood God-esque chart (like the DE power from pain). Hell have it replace DTTFE like the Ynnari one…PLEASE.

      All I can say is that unless Chaos gets a boost like this I will sadly be leaving my favorite army I have ever built, painted, and played in a box, because it is just too depressing to put them on the table right now.

    • Keith Wilson

      look to the AoS battletomes and you will have your answer

  • Defenestratus

    I can see why people think that 8th edition is better than 7th right now. People like Thomas here haven’t figured out quite how to make it miserable like they did for 7th but don’t worry, they’re trying!

    At my local LGS, by Sunday there were two guys who had figured out how to table people by turn two on a 50PL (700-1000points) games. That’s no fun no matter how you slice it.

    Blast weapons are terrible, I’ll agree – but so is the lack of variety. Of the games I played this weekend, there were no memorable moments and there were a hell of a lot of “broken” things going on. For example, my untouchable Shining Spears that would zoom across the table and literally remove a whole unit in one round. Or the hemlock that was smite-sniping characters because it could maneuver in just the right spot to get around the character mechanic – and if the smite didn’t do the trick, the 2D3 S10 AP-4 D2 shots finished the job.

    (Note for those of you saying, well I bet you didn’t use those units in 7th!!! Well you’re wrong. I used them all of the time because the spears are one of my favorite units in the book and my hemlock is painted gorgeously.)

    Anyways, my games felt empty… unfulfilling. Like I was just wasting my time. At one point in my first game I was so bored I started watching the America’s Cup on my phone while my opponent was moving… Of course these were introductory “just kill each other” games, but the game needs to be more than just a reduction of all unit interactions to just a roll-off against their stat lines. That’s what it was – and that was boring.

  • Crablezworth

    The whole thing feels lazy and shallow so far, I’m trying to stay positive and focus on the faction play and cool stuff like the new objectives box but it’s not easy. Prior editions were more about thresholds than gradients. But even with the evening out of the playing field in terms of units, the granularity gets tripped up by all the random, random shots, random damage, random charges. The biggest single core rules problem in my opinion that all a unit needs is range and los to a single model to kill a whole unit, and often the los part is just tossed out, regardless of the fluff being normal artillery or aspect seeking. Oh and tank shock being gone and vehicles in combat are simultaneously awful and embarrassing. It’s like that part was written by the relationship councilor while cruddace and jervis weren’t talking.

    • davepak

      As a long time wargamer (and even detailed stuff like squad leader, second fleet, etc.) I had some of these feelings.
      HOWEVER – after actually playing the game – its really good.
      There are ton of very subtle nuances there – placement and movement are even MORE important than before – especially with the pile in rule.

      Give it a chance, you may be surprised! 🙂

      • euansmith

        Squad Leader and Second Fleet? Real grognards play Harpoon and Air Superiority 😀

      • Crablezworth

        “placement and movement are even MORE important than before” Flyers… how is movement or placment more important now that they have a 360 fire arc?

        • Shawn

          Because if a flyer goes off the board at any time during the game it is considered destroyed, or it abandoned the battle. There is no more flying off the table and back on. Although, you do get to bring it in on turn 1.

        • davepak

          Play the game, do assaults, see the miracle.
          read the rules for pile in and consolidate VERY carefully – (and an open thoughtful mind, not “wft is up with that guy”) once the tactical nature of it sinks in, you will be amazed.

          Placement is more important than ever.

          Oh, but you need to actually play, instead of just throwing comments from the couch.

  • electricsheep89

    Now that the weapons have a bit more flexibility in their profiles, I was surprised with how blasts are handled.
    You could have d3/d6 where you roll two and pick the highest; give them more hits vs units with X+ number of models; use keywords that you can score more/less hits vs particular types of target.
    I hope we see such changes as we move onto proper codexes as blast weapons just can’t regularly do enough hits. Particularly massive ones like the battle cannon when you pair it with a pretty paltry 4+ BS.

    • orionburn

      Since there are certain things that gain a bonus going against big blobs of troops something like that would help. Say for troops of 11-15 it’s a 1+ D6, squads of 16-20 is a 2+D6, etc.

      I would have liked to see something like the old small blasts be a 3+D3 and a large blast be 3+D6. Seems like flamers won with the changes but blasts suffered.

      • electricsheep89

        The one issue with the 3+d3 method is that it can be a little too strong when firing at one (presumably large) model – that being said, it would still suit certain weapons, without templates it’s not like all blast weapons have to be the same anymore. But scoring more hits against larger units was fairly present in AoS so i was surprised this didn’t carry over more.
        Same goes for melee, more attacks would be too overpowered against individual models but I do think some larger models need more ‘crowd control’. The avatar for instance has heavy hitting attacks, but can be tar-pitted pathetically easily as he simply can’t do enough hits against blobs of infantry.

        • Defenestratus

          yep. My dreadknight ran afoul of that on Saturday.

        • orionburn

          Whoops..yeah I forgot to include that in my comment about reducing hits for smaller units or single models. Granted you could argue that pouring flames into a dedicated big target would be a realistic thing (like going hog wild with a flamer against a Carnifex) but you’re right in that there would need to be some sort of balance between big units of troops and smaller ones.

  • Danny Carr

    I really like 8th. It’s very basic right now but I do think it was the right move, it’s a lot more fun. I do feel “sorry” for Tau though….kinda. They’re much easier to assault before their shooting destroys you while charges by assault units like vanguard or berserkers will obliterate their suits before they can run. They seem like the weakest army right now.

    The biggest complaint I have is so much flavour went but that will hopefully return with codexes, I just hope they manage to keep everything balanced when the codex do happen.

    My biggest fear is that when them codices do get released the power creep start all over again, I like all the armies been able to win now. My second fear is that whatever gits wrote the 5th and 6th edition Tyranid codexes will be allowed near them again.

  • AircoolUK

    Ok, I have an idea for blast weapons. Someone has probably thought of this already, but hey…

    Quite simply, make a to hit roll with modifiers etc…, for every point the dice roll is over the to-hit number needed, add one to the number of hits when you roll for the number of hits.

    For example, a space marine needs a 3+ to hit with a missile launcher Frag (D6 hits), and rolls a 5. As the to-hit roll is two higher than the roll needed, you therefore roll D6+2 hits.

    This has the advantage of making good BS models more deadly with ‘blast’ weapons as they’re more skilled at getting rounds to land where they’re most effective.

    Like I said, there’s bound to be a ton of people who’ve already thought of this, but I just thought I’d put it out there…

    • el_tigre

      I like the sound of that, just seems so strange that no one thought to mention during “extensive playtesting” that a whole subset of weapons doesn’t really work anymore.

      My solution was a little different, doesn’t sound as good now though. It was roll to hit, D6 to see how many wound rolls you make unless there are more than 10 models in the target unit/ target has 10 wounds or more, in which case D3 + 3, to represent large units getting blown to smithireens/ tank taking the full force of the blast straight to the face

  • benn grimm

    Stoked for new ed, feels like a good time to start something new. Really enjoying building Feral Orks atm and coming up with cool/crazy looking counts as units. Nice to get back to basics without worrying too much about what’s ‘good’or ‘bad’.

    • ZeeLobby

      Yup. I’m picking up Deathguard. With one of the first codexes out, I’ll get the full 8th edition experience ASAP. Then I can make a good judgement on whether to invest more or continue playing other stuff. Def on the fence at the moment. Just looking through their rules, Tau seem pretty boring, which is unfortunate, but hopefully the DG will get some cool things on top of the starter.

      • benn grimm

        Mortarion is on the way pretty soon I’d say…)

        • euansmith

          If you listen carefully, you can already hear his wheezing cough.

          • benn grimm

            That’s what that noise is! Thanks, thought I was going a bit crazy for a min there…;)

          • euansmith

            I’m just hoping it will finally get loud enough to drown out the ticking sound from that feckin’ crocodile.

          • benn grimm

            Lol.)

      • Shawn

        Well, my Iron Hands got left out of the Imperium I Codex while every other vanilla marine, including some second founding vanilla marines got to see the new edition.

  • Tushan

    Finally people are starting to see the crap that is blasts. I have been talking about this for ages now and the only reply so far is an imbecillic “blasts are SOOOOO good”!

    • Nyyppä

      Small blasts had previously a max of 2 hits, now it’s 3. They are factually better now.

      • No-one Special

        That just isn’t true. If shooting at a perfectly spaced single line of troops, then yes, you may hit two. But how often does that happen under gaming conditions? More often units will be at least two ranks deep to minimise line of sight obstructions to their other units, bunched up to take adavantage of cover or firing lanes, limited by the space available etc. etc. etc.
        The maximum a blast can hit is more like 6 or 7 under ideal circumstances with no scatter, 3 being very common against spaced units with no scatter, and about 2 the average after scatter.

        • Nyyppä

          How often? Every single time if the was room for it….so every single time a skilled player played that army.

          • No-one Special

            That is a truly riduclous statement. You’re saying every time a ‘skilled’ player uses that army all the things that could possibly interfere with a perfect alignment magically disappear allowing him to keep all his models pefectly spaced in neat rows?
            That does not happen, it’s not even a debate. You’re even contradicting yourself in you’re own sentance ‘Every single time if there was room for it’ – how can it be every time if you’re acknowledging there are situations when it can’t happen?
            Every time this ‘skilled’ player moves a unit and it comes into contact with a piece of terrain he is presented with a choice – move around it sacrificing spacing or movement, or move into the terrain sacrificing spacing to maximise cover. And that right there is an example of the opportunities blast weapons take advanatge of to maximise hits. You must play on a flat empty field if this doesn’t come up in your games.

          • Nyyppä

            I didn’t even insinuate that. You are right though, there never was a debate. Max 2 hits is a fact when shooting against someone who is not a total idiot.

            I acknowledged that there can be a situation in which there may not be enough room. You can hit a random person in the face. Do you do it just because you can? I doubt that. You might now notice that things that can be and things that are are not automatically both.

            I have no doubt that there were plenty of things cramped in games. Those were invisible deathstars though so you could not shoot blasts at them anyway or the opponent had no blasts in range.

            Again, our respective kitchen table metas mean exactly nothing. This is a question of what is good and what is not. The local meta just is not the right place look for answers to that question.

      • ZeeLobby

        When taken in a vacuum, sure. I pretty consistently hit 3 or even 4 back in 7th. Sure you had to use tactics like tank shock, or funneling, but I enjoyed those. Might be the only one. Even in tournaments, blasts we’re pretty consistent. I never had the opportunity to only hit one, which your just as likely to hit with the new blasts as anything else.

        • davepak

          I RARELY hit more than 2.

          • ZeeLobby

            Then you my friend need more terrain on your table, lol. Either that or you’re playing an elite army, in which case blasts aren’t really your friend to begin with. With the new LoS rules since 6th, we’ve always loaded our tables with LoS blocking terrain. Eventually things need to move around/through it. Set up some great possibilities (and looked good too).

          • Shawn

            Which meant, never let the Tau player set up terrain, yeah?

          • ZeeLobby

            I was the Tau player, though without the jetpack rule they’d probably be a lot more boring to play in a city setting.

          • Shawn

            You must an anomaly like Farsight and not part of the enclaves. Just about every Tau player I’ve faced would set up little to now terrain and if they did, well they just bought the ignore cover markers or smart missile systems. In 8th, that wouldn’t be an issue, since marines get +1 save while in cover! Woot!

        • Nyyppä

          The things that were closer than that when facing good blasts were invisible anyway so yeah, 1-2 hits assuming there were any hits at all.

          • ZeeLobby

            Well I can’t help it if you only ever played armies with invisibility and they had it all the time on every unit. Those goalposts are just flying by!

          • Nyyppä

            7th was about tournaments. There is no way around that fact. Tournament meta was literally the only thing that mattered in the context of discussions of what was good and how good that thing was.

          • ZeeLobby

            Oh totally. Went to a couple GTs in seventh, used blasts, killed more than 2. Sure top 5 tables were invisible super friends deathstar, but the other 50 tables were a pretty big range. Saw plenty of blasts being effective, but maybe events were different where you’re from.

          • Nyyppä

            I have no doubt that there are people in tournaments that have no idea of…well….anything really.

            It’s about those “top 5 tables”. Probably it’s more like top 10 tables but what ever. The people who know how to play are the ones that define the meta, not the kitchen tables.

          • ZeeLobby

            Lol. Whatever helps justify your tunnel of an argument.

          • Nyyppä

            Facts be facts, brah. I get that you want to go for the “but the meta on my kitchen table” argument but we are not talking about anyone’s personal meta.

          • ZeeLobby

            And.your “facts”, as you clearly stated above, is that blasts don’t work vs 1/5 – 1/10th of the tournament meta, and less than 1% of the of the actual player meta, and somehow that makes them bad? Lol. Are you sure you aren’t arguing my side “bruh”. There were plenty of other competitive takes in 7th which were less effective. I mean I’ll take it, even without any statistical data to actually back up your “facts”. So, uh, Thanks!

          • Nyyppä

            As I clearly stated above blasts did not work against 100% of the meta. Yes, they may have worked against people with less than average level of intellect who did not play the meta, but blast did not work against 100% of the meta. If they had worked people would have spammed them. It’s that simple.

            Like I said, the kitchen table lists are meaningless. Only what wins matters when we are discussing about things that are good. If this is a problem for then too bad I guess.

          • ZeeLobby

            I mean you clearly stated a definitive comment t that the max hits a small blast gave you was 2 (false) You also agreed with me that small blasts we’re still effective vs 80-90% of a competitive event (true). I never stated that small blasts we’re 100% effective in 7th (dunno why you’re arguing it). People didn’t spam them (true) but people still took them (true).

            Of course I offered anecdotal information based on personal experience. You claimed you had facts based on no evidence. “Facts” that only support my assertion that blasts we’re effective at competitive events, even if they weren’t effective vs everyone.

            The reality is they still won’t be taken in favor of weapons which offer consistent damage, randomess is the plague of any competitive list, and now they also offer no advantage vs hordes, poor placement, or smart use of terrain and tank shock. So it looks like we both pretty much agree they’ve gotten definitively worse.

          • Nyyppä

            I presented you proof of the fact that max for a small blast is 2 hits. Now you are claiming that it’s false.

            What ever percentage of tournament participants who had no idea how to play the game were the ones you could effectively use blasts against. Those people do not man anything in this. We are not talking about theory here, it’s about practice. The pictures that I privided show that my claim is factually true.

            Your personal experience, or anyone elses is meaningless too.

            Whether or not previously blast weapons will be taken is, again, meanngless. It’s about the fact that they are better now than they were in 7th. Min hits is 0 then and now, back then the average was 1 hit and now it’s 1-2, max was 2 and now it’s 3-6or more for small blasts.

            It is what it is. Try to deal with it.

          • ZeeLobby

            Don’t really need to read the rest. I’ve hit three with a small blast, so your initial “proof” is false.

          • Nyyppä

            Against the top players of the top tables of the more prominent GTs? Roger that. Where’s the proof? Do you have pictures or something like that?

            My initial proof is based on an assumption that the opponent is intelligent enough to actually use tactics. Those people do not get hit 3 times with small blasts and the rest of the community are just chaff.

            I don’t doubt that you have done that against some of the less intelligent players or against infants but then again those matches are, again, meaningless.

          • ZeeLobby

            Saw it on table 6 at NOVA last year. Guy I knew was playing. Also pulled it off twice on table 11 personally at Da Boyz GT with my thunderfire cannon final round. How are these people “meaningless”? You still need to play and beat them to advance. Even the top tier players aren’t flawless. I saw Nick pull a crazy dumb move that almost cost him the tournament 2 years ago. It wasn’t blast related, but it happens, ergo, you can’t just make blanket assumptions and call them facts. That’s like logic 101. If you’ve never seen a tank shock tunnel for a thunderfire or plasma cannon, you’ve never played competitive 40K. Sometimes it’s just unavoidable if you want to plant on an objective.

          • Tushan

            Meaningless to debate with that little stubborn kid and his blasts-hit-2-max “proofs”. Dont know if its more sad or pathetic but it sure makes me smile.

            We can look at 40k channels like longwar or other even more serious tactics channels that run tournament trial lists seen from above and see how their blasts work, that alone kills little genius over here and his idiot claims about blasts only ever hitting 2 even in tournaments.

            Hell, the local meta doesnt even allow me (in 7th) to use thunderfire cannons due to the OPness of them when a hit is rolled even against congalined orks because even a congalines horde army cannot escape blasts effective when you tote 150+ guardsmen or orks etc..even a miss hits things.

            In 8th the same weapon is a pathetic joke just like the 90p whirlwind that can only kill 3 f*****g guardsmen a turn. And all units are supposed to be usable in 8th..HA!

          • Tushan

            What proof? Your self made pathetic picture of your tunnel vision?

            Want to make a poll asking all players in here who got blasts hitting far more then 2 models or are you to big of a covards for that.

            YOU claim blasts never ever hit more then 2 models max and now you painted yourself into a wall and its to embarassing to admit your wrongs so instead you continue to spew crap about tournaments etc etc and tote pictures and call this proof to your own crap.

            Blasts are worse now then in 7th and that you refuse to see it due to your own pride is well, your own problem. We didnt even have to roll separate blast hits previously but hey, lets forget about inconvenient things facts that.

            And all that coming from someone who cant even figure out why paid-for summoning is good in 8th, LOL

          • Tushan

            The genius never e v e r had a blast hit more then 2 enemy models EVER!

            I actually feel sorry for the poor kid.

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah. I dunno. Sounds crazy to me. Bet he’s never been near a top table. Not sure he’s even played the game with that record.

          • Tushan

            The best part is he really cannot manage to understand the benefits of summoning paid-for units in 8th and calls it a waste of points!

            And THAT kind of person is to be taken serious when babbling about blasts in 8th being better then in 7th when they even autohit things. Even the article mentions this and the mathammer crowd cries rivers over blasts and flamers. But hey..he IS right! lol

      • Tushan

        Really?

        A small blast ramming in to a mob or orks only covered at most 2 models?

        Check!

        • Nyyppä

          Yes, because orcs were on top of the food chain in 7th….no wait….

          • Tushan
          • Nyyppä

            Oh look, a situation that never existed against at least semi intelligent players.

          • Tushan

            Oh look ihave never placed blasts on massed ig armies and “prove” my point with a lame self made picture.

            Pathetic.

            And we still await your genius “proof” about blasts ever max hitting 2 models.

            Common everybody, anyone in here had blasts hit more then 2 models before? According to the kid above this is impossible and never happened.

            Then again if blasts are to be nerfed to hell why are they still costing tons?
            Previously those blasts at least auto hit, now you need to roll hits on top of your “soooo goood” 2 hit blasts.

        • Tushan

          7ed: Blasts HIT between 0 and 10+ models. Often a miss is rolled and it hits 0 or 1 and likewise if hit you can catsh 8 models that deepstruck or 4-6 massed infantry such as IG.

          8ed = blasts roll on average 2 SHOTS that still have to hit on BS meaning a SM plasma cannon hits on average 1.3 enemy models and little genius here claims this is better then previously despite the article AND the mathammer chart showing the crap blast average output.

          It must suck to have failed kindergarden math.

    • Nyyppä
    • No-one Special

      I think the issue with them now is you can’t take advantage of favourable circumstances. In those instances where an enemy unit (or even just a few models within the unit) would be bunched up for whatever reason, (cover, space, etc.) you could take advantage of that to maximise hits and damage, and this made blasts better than their numbers would suggest.
      Replacing all that with a flat roll has removed that element, but it doesn’t seem to have been factored in to the rules translation or points costing, and it’s just been done like for like.
      This I think is the reason for the underwhelming feeling surrounding them – they are worse, but it’s not in the numbers, it’s in the appilcation.

      • ZeeLobby

        At the same time it was very cinematic. Usually a unit was bunched up for a reason. To gain cover from a wall, to flank through a narrow ally, etc. It created situations where using blasts to demoralize and break a foe would be common. While the new way might be more “streamlined”, it’s definitely taken away that cinematic aspect.

        • No-one Special

          I completely agree, i feel 40k has lost a part of itself with their demise. I think the argument to get rid of them was very overstated, and was only a problem for a minority of gamers.

          • ZeeLobby

            I mean heck, our group occasionally argued over placement. It’s funny because most of the people who don’t care ran assault armies, and those who do ran shooty armies. It’ll be interesting to see how the game functions without blasts as a deterrent. There were definitely times I got 10 guys under a single large blast.

          • No-one Special

            Generally i’ve found the people who argue over template placement are going to argue over everything else too, all getting rid of them does is shift the debate on to something else rather than removing it entirely.
            I also maintain that with two tape measures being used to create a parralell, there shouldn’t really be much debate about where a scatter will fall – and again says more about your opponent than it does the rules.
            I think you’re right about the deterrent thing, 8th is already shaping up to be horde friendly and blast templates would have gone a long way to evening things up.

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah, got you there. Honestly we fell into a rare bunch that rarely argued about anything but templates. But it was only like once every 10 games.

          • davepak

            how many games have you played?
            They are fine – the problem is BS 3 armies.

            Also, people are bunched out now because they don’t care

          • No-one Special

            Yes BS3 is an issue too – but that’s an army specific problem which should/could have been addressed in the points values once the main rules had been decided – it seems to work for BS4, but the difference between 0-1″ of extra scatter and all shots hitting on 4’s instead of 3’s is significant enough that BS3 struggles noticably.
            Like I said, it seems pretty clear that the rule change has been executed on the assumption it is a simple switch with no consequences as it affected everyone in the same way.
            This is not the case.

        • Shawn

          I did like the blast markers for a visual, to imagine that cinematic feel you suggest, but on I still felt that cinematic feel in my first game when my t-hammer/s-shield termies, libby, and captain, just kept marching up the field killing unit after unit until they got to an objective:) Of course, by that time, it was just the captain and libby, but it was still exciting!

  • Yout Elling

    The Sisters are a now a force to be reckoned with.
    I played a tournament this weekend (1000pts) and placed 2nd. It was basically 3 Immolators, Celestine + Seraphims and 4 Retributors with heavy bolters. Heavy Bolters Firing 24 shots a turn and Celestine and Seraphims moving 24″ every turn just absolutely destroying anything in their path (Be’Lakor, Wolf Lords, Harlequins, Cawl etc).
    The Immolators and squads inside just mopped up whatever escaped Celestine.
    It feels really good to be effective again 😀

  • RAKSHA

    I hope there are will be a change for blast weapons there are just not right feel so underpower..shooting huge battle cannon and you have just max 6 hits>>>? really Game workshop guys WTF boys this weapon can desintagrate whole bunch off dudes in just a splash ..check what those guns could do ..in first World War..you try to speed the game by geting rid off blast markers but those blast clean a lot off models in a shoot dont get you…this ofcourse helped Orks tyranids astra militarum all those horde armies but there is no balance in there you make ordanace weapon useless>>GG..

    • davepak

      how often did you catch more then six models under the blast? Especially now with 32mm and 40mm bases common? Sure, maybe once that guy was not paying attention and you killed 8 termagants….but I am talking about how many on average marines did you catch?

      • RAKSHA

        avarage is 5 to 6 models dude with large blast i dont know how did you play 7 th ..lol…Blast in 8TH sucks

        • davepak

          In my area, at best we would get 3, maybe 4 on a really good day.

          I would suggest you are exaggerating – or perhaps the players in your area are not very aware or astute – the players in my area – took the extra effort to make sure this did not happen.

          now, no one has to bother any more. Thus, the new rule made the game faster, and less of a hassle.

          Also, blast got incredibly powerful against lower count units – you now do multiple hits to single models – this is very powerful.

          Perhaps, instead of looking at why things “suck” you may consider opening up to the potential of the new rules. Obviously, if you are looking for things to be unhappy about, you will succeed….

          • RAKSHA

            You are so silly kid..blast get stronger.? are you out off your mind..if I whant to kill multiple wounds models I’m gonna use lascannon ,melta or missile…you try to tell me vindicator is better then predator with lascanons?…don’t you see how pathetic blasts become…open your eyes…and again blast weapons are for killing mobs not single model..no any offence here..and have fun with your blasts..I know why they did that to help armies like orks or Tyranids but seriously they could give them some special rules to help them survive instead they get rid off templates to speed up the game..really…

  • RAKSHA

    there is sloution for blast weapons give them Mortal wounds so even you hit those 2 hits those wounds will spill …very simple.. job done ..i propably will play that rules in my games..

    • Nyyppä

      Mortal wounds can not be saved….

    • David

      3 mortars for 27pts would not be broken with mortal wounds.

      Easiest fix bring back templates

    • Lyca Atteneder

      I’d rather say 1 to hit roll and then d3 / d6 / whatever… hits. Although if this one to hit roll misses you hit nothing which would also be a little silly I think.
      Mortal wounds? just no. Something that works like mortal wounds but can be saved might be ok though.

    • KingAceNumber1

      That’s completely absurd. Mortal wounds allow no saves, you could kill an entire terminator squad with like 75 pts of blasts.

      • RAKSHA

        ok mortal wounds maybe bit to hard so invant then ..but wounds need to spill..and this we be ok

      • RAKSHA

        and what do you think huge guns do to a infantry>? kill one guy like is now make no sense to me …

  • No-one Special

    This may be a bit of a stupid question but I’ve heard conflicting opinions on this, maybe you guys can help clear this up for me. When totalling up points values, do you add on the cost of the weapons it comes with as standard – as in those listed as it’s basic equipment in the unit description? Or do you only add on additional weapon options/wargear/etc?

    • davepak

      YES – you pay for the weapons that are standard.

      You have to pay for everything – just some things cost zero.

      The only exception is usually the special characters, where in the points list, it says “includes wargear”/

      • Lyca Atteneder

        Also, everything form the Chaos Daemons list ‘includes wargear’ except Daemon Princes.

      • Mr.Gold

        although only total the points for the wargear that the model ends up with…

  • davepak

    I have seen plasma cannons do amazing things – especially in the hands of marines. The weakness here are the BS3 armies – they need a terrible boost with them.

  • KingAceNumber1

    Loving 8th so far. At times it feels a little basic, but it’s also functionally the first edition of an entirely new game. I’m more than willing to dick around with my friends and play fun thematic games until the Codices come out, and then judge the overall edition as a whole.

    Plus, my fiancee is interesting in playing for the first time ever, after seeing how pared down the rules are now, so that’s cool

  • Urban Bungledorph

    I nerd laughed at the proofreading paragraph because my reading had already been interrupted by two typos. Spelling for the spelling god!

  • Severius_Tolluck

    Yep ran some sisters, had a victory. My first army got to shake dust off its three almost 4 edition slumber. Those penitent engines are beast! With acts of faith, they are probably kinda broken? I can potentially with the correct support, I can get Two separate Engines Attack up to 4 times a turn! If they take a beating, spend a turn healing!

    • Luca Lacchini

      Penitent Engines do not get Act of Faith, nor Shield of Faith, neither War Hymns from a Ministorum Priest.

      They’re quite scary nonetheless, partuclarly if backed up by infantry units that benefit from AoF and/or WH (Repentia first and Death Cult Assassins close second).

      • Severius_Tolluck

        Yeah, I don’t really have any to use to break so was theorizing. Like you said, AoF supporting a unit to bubble wrap it would be nasty. Good there is nothing I can think of that can repair it followingg it. But still Unless you concentrate I do not see them going down too easy.

        • Luca Lacchini

          Yeah, for some weird reason, Tech-Priest Enginseers refuse to fix vehicles from the Adeptus Ministorum ranks.
          And don’t even ask a Dominus or Belisarius Cawl to care about stuff outside the Adeptus Mechanicus.

          It’d be simply fixed by using the “Imperium” keyword, nut naaah, let’s make things difficult and with less logic.

  • Nyyppä

    There are couple of hilariously stupid rules there and some not so slightly broken combos. Other than that it’s fine. Then again I must admit that I find traitor knights with the gatlings, hitting on 2s and rerolling ones, hilarious in no small way. All you need to pull that off is a bare bones DP, the knight, close proximity and a roll of 7+. That’s 22 or so hits. Can’t find anything helping with the wounding. That would be the answer to hordes for chaos.

    • Mr.Gold

      Cawl within 6″ of 2x Kastellan Robots with Protector (Shooty) protocols (if equiped with full phosphor) has 36 shots rerolling to hit at S6, AP-2, D1… Points wise this is 470, power levels of 25).

    • Owlbutts

      Prescience only works on Heretic Astartes. the Knight is Questor Traitoris.

      • Nyyppä

        You are absolutely right.

  • JD No7

    You’re doing blast wrong? You roll for number of shots first then roll that many dice to hit!