40K: Primaris Marines are the Nü Black

Black Blow Fly here again to discuss the Nü Marines and I think they are the awesome.

Funnily enough it seems like they are receiving some push back and even more funny it seems to be mostly coming from Space Marine players of all places. Sure their background is a lil wonky but in the world of grimdark anything can and does happen from time to time. Nü Marines remind me a lot of Thunder Warriors and that works for me. My first 8th edItion army is going to be purely composed of Nü Marine units. I realize that some people feel threatened that Nü Marines will invalidate their armies but to me that’s a silly outlook and here’s why.

You Don’t Have to Use Them

First you don’t have to use them and until they get some transports I don’t see them being all that competitive… but sure they are still pretty good (refer to the 3rd point below). However if you do want to use them then they’ll integrate well into any Space Marine army. If you don’t want to use them just don’t worry about it. It’s not like GW is going to stop selling all the Beta Marine units any time soon.

They Will Settle Into the Fluff

Second I’ve already mentioned their background is a lil wonky. Some people have gone so far as to claim Roboute Guilliman is going to attempt a coup to overtake control of the Imperium… lol. Remember when Mat Ward was screwing up the lore for chapters such as Blood Angels allying with Necrons and Lord Draigo living in the warp ? How dumb was that but I seem to remember Grey Knights being extremely popular back in 5th edition. How about Phil Kelly and Thunder Wolf cavalry ? A lot of people thought that was silly too but again they are popular irregardless of whether or not these types of things are a good fit in the story line. I’m not saying the lore isn’t important as most people say this is what really drew them into the hobby in the first place… BUT things do change and you just can’t deny ole Tzneetch his right. Given enough time everything settles down and is accepted one way or another.

What Marines SHOULD Be

Third and this very important – Nü Marines represent what a Space Marine should be as compared to the old Beta Marines. Nü Marines’ stat line is in line with how I imagine a Space Marine should be in terms of game play. Look it all the great units xenos armies like Eldar, Necrons and Tau got back in 6th and 7th editions… it’s about time Space Marines finally got some love of their own. Also in many ways the Nü Marine is true scale compared to the old Beta Marine. Some people don’t want to admit it but it is what it is. So it’s best to get used to it and move on. I remember the first picture of a Nü Marine leaked onto the interwebz… it got passed off as being a shopped photo but turns out it is the real deal.

Made for New Players

Fourth and this is another big one… Primaris Marine units that have been released are easy to play in 8th edition. In many ways Primaris Marines are the first new army for the new edition. As an example consider a Captain in Gravis Armor buffing a squad of Hellblasters… being able to reliably overcharge their S8 2 damage guns since they can reroll ones to hit is amazing and they are a threat to any enemy unit. Intercessors can outgun enemy units with shorter range since theirs is a nice big juicy 30″… for example they can easily pick apart a tactical squad and never even take any return fire power. Inceptors are T5 with 10″ movement sporting heavy bolter pistols… sure they might get charged but they can fall back and still shoot since they are so FLY heh. They can deep strike so nothing is safe and terminators don’t like them since they have to roll a 3+ armor save.

I could go on but I think I’ve made my case so I’ll let it rest for now.

~If you love Space Marines then I bet there’s a place for Nü Marines in your heart too. Don’t be another hater.

  • Antoine Henry

    Nothing says that I can’t also say that my old marines are new marines. So i would recommend that we all agree that those Primaris are an heresy and just keep the name Space Marines for everything :). I hope that tournaments will allow old marines to be played as “primaris” :). I think they made the wrong story around these Primaris and that they made the worst story about them 🙂

  • 301stFeinminsterArmoured

    You lost me with Truescale. It bothers me that people think 2 meters tall is the height of some magical race of giants, that wield ridiculously big guns and swords. I know plenty of people that height, and mundane tools give them no trouble at all.

    • MarcoT

      Truescale usually simply refers to marines being a head taller than Guardsmen, and now they are. Lorewise it refers to 7 or 8ft. Ofcourse the size of the guns and such isn’t realistic, but who cares, it looks cool.

      • Heinz Fiction

        The look more like orge size to me…

        • Schnauzer

          Orgy? Where? When?

      • Son_of_Corax_XIX

        You do realise no plastic marine is standing errect at their full height right? So true scale is rubbish because of it

        • MarcoT

          Haha sure. That’s the criteria. Guardsmen, orks, etc don’t stand perfectly straight either, so how the feth does this matter?

          • Son_of_Corax_XIX

            Think you will find cadia a were remodelled to stand almost completely upright where no marine is.
            Also an Ork is supposed to be bigger than a marine.

          • deuce1984

            Orks have gotten bigger over time. The old Goffs were squatty little things and Ghazkull looked like a Gretchen in an over-sized skullcap. Maybe they are ripe for another upscaling in response to the Primaris but hey, this is a brave new world.

  • Timotheus

    You don’t need to buy them…that’s right. But you won’t be able to get new stuff for your existing army because of them. That’s the point for me. Otherwise maybe I would be able to ignore them…

    • OldHat

      How so? They have been out how long? You have zero evidence to back up that claim. They are getting releases now because they are new and not fleshed out, while the Marine range is bloated as is.

      • orionburn

        I understand wanting new stuff for your army every so often, but gotta agree…standard Marines have so much crap as it is. If I have to choose between existing armies getting a new model here and there or getting entirely new factions/armies I’m going with the later. Variety is the spice of life!

      • SacTownBrian

        Bloated implies bad. How can choice be bad?

        • OldHat

          One word: Centurions.

          • deuce1984

            I really hope they retire Centurions. No new sculpts and crappy rules for 15 years and then a silent sendoff.

      • ZeeLobby

        Every new mini-marine release from this point on will only be fractional. Primaris marines basically cannibalize regular marines. GW would have to be a pretty idiotic company to let the two continue side by side indefinitely. Heck, they even have written reasons into the fluff why we won’t see mini marines as much anymore.

        • OldHat

          Idiotic? Why? They have the molds and stuff. Why not keep selling stuff that makes them money? And the Primaris are apparently not that numerous even still. Makes sense to keep them as a unit option for Marines with their own trappings than to purge their long-standing and best-selling faction.

          Plus, they have said they wouldn’t be replacing normal Marines many times. I just think it is the fan-base overreacting to the nuMarines. Nothing indicates they would suddenly stop selling normal Marines at all.

          • Horus84cmd

            It blinkered to think they won’t be. See my comment above. Moulds will eventually wear out and GW have a limited space to hold stock as new products come out so I would expect them to be phased out.

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah, I mean it’ll definitely be a gradual process. But it really just makes little sense to continue producing both, short of trying to avoid upsetting a large fraction of their current 40K community. In a year or two, I doubt they’ll care as much (and most people will have started buying Primaris things even after trashing them because it’s the only way to get new exciting stuff).

          • OldHat

            Plastic injection molds are solid steel fabrications. They aren’t like FW’s molds, they likely won’t wear out for decades.

          • Horus84cmd

            Golly really injection moulds aren’t like FW mould….you don’t say….I mean I never would have guess…sheesh

            Indeed no, not after a decade, after so many cycles. Injection moulding moulds typically last around 500,000-1,000,000 cycles (less if they are made from aluminium, which some low run products can be; like characters). Now I would imagine for a lot of GW product, this enough for the lifetime of the product. Do you think the only reason GW have re-cut the SM tactical squad frame, every 7-8 years or so, was solely to update it? – no it partly to replace a failing mould.

          • ZeeLobby

            “They have the molds and stuff. Why not keep selling stuff that makes them money?”

            Because they just spent all this money on new molds for the new marines. Why doesn’t Apple keep selling the iPhone 4, or iPhone 5. I mean they have all the designs and factory molds right? It’s the same reason. They NEED to sell lots of new. It’s what generates profits, and justifies the decision to make these new marines to the stock holders.

            And I don’t think they’ll ever replace the “rules” of mini marines. Heck, I can still play tomb kings if i want. But the model line will definitely be phased out. I mean jebus, this is the first time we’ve literally seen the fluff provide justification for phasing out mini-marines (now the second best elite fighting force of the galaxy). It’s more shocking that people still think this won’t happen, haha.

          • OldHat

            Apple does keep selling prior iterations of the iPhone though. For quite a while.

          • ZeeLobby

            They sell the previous year’s, for a year. I’m fine with expecting that for mini-marines. Honestly I think it’ll even be longer. But please don’t try to pretend like planned obsolescence doesn’t exist, or that GW wouldn’t love to somehow introduce that into the gaming industry.

          • OldHat

            Comparing Apple – a tech company that must push innovation to sell its latest technology, to GW – a niche miniature company, is a bit off the mark. The iPhone3 isn’t being sold anymore because it is obsolete compared to the current generation. Tactical Squads don’t go obsolete so long as there are rules and people buying them. Seeing that the rules don’t make either one a no-brainer, I just don’t see them phasing out the standard Marines. Nor is there a fluff reason to do so.

            And these aren’t “older versions”. They are entirely different. That is like saying Marines were obsolete when Custodians came out. Or that Terminators were obsolete when Centurions came out.

            And at the end of the day, since GW has said they aren’t getting rid of normal Marines, all claims to the contrary are just fear-based speculation and not rooted in anything tangible.

          • ZeeLobby

            I mean the old GW CEO and board member meetings referenced Apple occasionally. I don’t see why more companies wouldn’t want to emulate their business practices. They’re not unique to a “tech company” after all. Many of their basic principles can be applied to other industries as well.

            LOL. They’re literally upgrading OLD marines into NEW marines in the fluff.

            At the end of the day, GW’s statement can be interpreted many different ways and is intentionally vague (like their entire ruleset, lol). All they have to do is come back 2 years from now and say that they weren’t getting rid of normal marines “with the launch of 8th”. It’s not like they’ve signed a contract with us binding them to their decision, lol. And 2/3 years from now, after old-marines have yet to receive another new unit, and molds are starting to wear out, most of the community probably won’t care.

            I mean you can choose the path that is incongruous with smart business, and we’ll just have to see if GW is as smart as I thought they were. Maybe they’re not, and will let a faction that was 50% of their sales be self-cannibalized from within.

          • OldHat

            “At the end of the day, GW’s statement can be interpreted many different ways” Only if you want to spin it for maximum sky-is-falling.

            And molds do not wear out that fast. These are injection molds, not rubber. They require maintenance, but not reworking. That is why you saw old kits stick around for over a decade without being touched. So that is a moot point.

            And it isn’t incongruous with this specific market. Tech strives to push forward, but in this niche market where collecting and “fluff” matter, I don’t foresee them removing their most prominent and important faction (or replacing it with nuMarines).

            Also, the fluff is not replacing them en masse. Still tens of thousands (or more) of basic Marines around.

            And I can’t wait for the inevitable story arc where nuMarines are judged Heresy. I feel like this is inevitable and would leave to a lot of potential new kits for Marines (and Sisters, lol).

          • ZeeLobby

            Lol. We’ll see. Like I said. It just depends if their business acumen exists.

          • OldHat

            You keep thinking it is bad business to offer both lines. It isn’t. And it isn’t bias. At this point, my position is based on the company’s word vs your unsubstantiated assumption.

          • ZeeLobby

            How does continuing to provide the rules but not the models not satisfy your statement? You can still play them sure. You just can’t buy them. I don’t understand how you can’t grasp that as a possibility…

            And my assumption is supported by basic business practices. You don’t offer two products which are almost identical in aesthetic and purpose.

          • OldHat

            Nothing to grasp though because that is not the likely reality. And “you don’t offer two products which are almost identical in aesthetic and purpose”. Tell that to… the entire Space Marine range. You could argue that one body kit and then upgrade kits would be “better”, but I sure do see box sets of Devs, Tacs, and Veterans.

            Again, it makes zero business sense to stop production now that the molds exist and the players still buy them. The IP is sound and they are the poster child for 40k. Stopping production of a key line would be foolish and I just don’t see them doing it. That would be bad business.

          • ZeeLobby

            “that is not the likely reality” lol, based on what? You can’t get on me for making unsupported assumptions and then say things like that. I mean Tomb Kings and AoS is an example with directly contradicts your assumption.

            And again, you keep saying “stop production” like it’s going to happen tomorrow, or that one day they’ll just flip a switch. That’s not how it works. Old products are always phased out. Stock is kept at minimal functional levels until sales hit a certain low. Just based on stormcast, we have a pretty good indicator of how hard GW is going to push Primaris marines. Do you really think kids who are new to the game are going to go for the second-hand dying super warriors or the brand new shiny super warriors, lol. Like I said, we’ll have to wait and see, but this one is pretty obvious IMO.

          • OldHat

            GW has made a statement that normal Marines are not going anywhere. Hard to compare their flagship model line to the Tomb Kings. I wouldn’t call that a contradiction. Nothing in Fantasy came close to the level of brand impact as Marines do for 40k. Plus, AoS was a full world reboot – this is just an edition change and story forward, so not at all the same.

            And “old products are phased out” doesn’t apply to this sort of niche market. It really doesn’t. They can push Primaris marines as hard as Stormcasts, but the Stormcasts didn’t phase out the Empire line (their nearest kin).

            Sheesh. You can stick to your opinion on this all day, but nothing really backs it up. It is just your hunch that isn’t really substantiated.

          • ZeeLobby

            But marines aren’t going anywhere. They’re just getting bigger! That’s the whole point. lol. And phase out DOES apply, we’ve seen across the GW range many times over the years. I mean we can just agree to part ways at this point. And yeah, sure, besides all the things I’ve backed it up with (business principals on cannibalization, actions of GW with other product lines in the past, etc.)

            You clearly have dug your head deep into the sand, and that’s cool if that’s what you choose to do. We’ll just have to wait and see.

          • OldHat

            “(business principals on cannibalization, actions of GW with other product lines in the past, etc.)”

            Comparing 40k and Fantasy isn’t going to work. Vastly different principles involved, plus IP issues. So that is moot. And your “business principles” don’t really factor in, as stated, to such a niche market.

            “You clearly have dug your head deep into the sand, and that’s cool if that’s what you choose to do. We’ll just have to wait and see.”

            Uh-huh. I am just basing what I am saying off GW’s claim that they aren’t phasing out the old Marines.

            C’est la vie. You keep on pushing your narrative though. Time will tell.

          • ZeeLobby

            yeah, like i said, we’ll have to wait and see.

          • Horus84cmd

            Just to be clear what the GW offical written statement, from Primaris Marine FAQ:
            https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/15/primaris-space-marines-faq-may15gw-homepage-post-2/
            “Are all my current Space Marine miniatures redundant now?
            No way! Primaris Space Marines do not replace regular (if a superhuman killing machine can be described as ‘regular’) Space Marines. These guys have a few extra genetic enhancements, thanks to Belisarius Cawl, and serve as additional reinforcements in the Adeptus Astartes arsenal, not replacements.”

            This statement leaves GW sat on the fence and leaving the door open to go either way.GW don’t explicitly state they are going nowhere and they don’t say they are not. Yet, with the way the fluff has been written, with regular SM being able to be “upgraded” I’m certainly erring on the side that they will be gone within the next 5 years.

          • OldHat

            “…not replacements.”

            Huh. Doesn’t seem much on the fence there.

          • Karru

            The statement was meant to assure veteran players that the new Guilmarines were a whole new faction and not just bigger Marines.

            The clever bit is that if GW releases better and stronger versions of old Marine units, they are still not “lying” when they say that Guilmarines are replacing old ones.

            SM army is still playable and in fact, you can’t play Regular Marines as Guilmarines due to the huge differences between the two. They just make Guilmarines better at everything that Marines could do and boom, still not lying. You can still use the models, you can still play with the old Marines, but it doesn’t mean they are anywhere near the level of Guilmarines.

            Case in point, AoS release and the statement about the armies during launch. “All of your models will still be usable in AoS”. Not a single lie was said that day. It is a different story though if I intent to start a Tomb King army or Bretonnians.

          • OldHat

            AoS is not 40k. Tomb Kings are not Space Marines. Terrible example.

            And the statement stands. They are not replacements. So again, this whole fear thing seems unfounded.

          • Rafał Pytlak

            Well i see in Stores a fair amount of Samsung Galaxy S2 even when there’s, what? S6 now? New doesn’t mean the death of old. At least not based on the example you provided…

          • ZeeLobby

            Sure. And 10 years from now I can find a vintage 8th edition starter box at my local gaming store. Lol. You do realize that just because a parent company stops production doesn’t mean that stock won’t continue float around for a while? Heck there were unopened Necromunda blisters on sale at my local store when Shadow Wars was released. Where on the Samsung site can I order a new S2? Where on the GW site can I order old ganger models?

          • OldHat

            I can find the Galaxy S5 and S4 still for sale on Samsung’s website, despite the fact the S8 just released. Different companies do different things. Applying tech company logic to a niche model company doesn’t work well.

          • ZeeLobby

            Why? I mean I’ve said I wouldn’t be shocked if mini-marines lasted for 2/3 more years. I think that based on core principals there is a ton of comparisons you can make across most industries. Especially consumer ones involving supply and demand (I mean there’s entire degrees devoted to those general principals).

          • Rafał Pytlak

            Dunno, I’m more of a “go to the store, touch the physical product guy” myself.

          • ZeeLobby

            Right there with yah. And all I was implying is that no company produces something indefinitely. They might continue to sell until stock depletes, but it’s illogical to keep something that directly competes with something else going in parallel.

          • OldHat

            Maybe for tech, sure. But I see some 10+ year old Chaos kits still being cranked out that basically undermine that argument. They produce kits that sell until they redo the sculpt. There is zero incentive to remove their most popular line, of which Primaris Marines are just augmenting. Even if they get a transport and a few more units (2-3 based on fluff), that is not well-supported line vs what they have now.

            Again, just seems like fear-baiting and unwarranted speculation to assume normal Marines are going away.

          • ZeeLobby

            I mean that’s simply a bi-product of offering 300+ items. If Apple released 50 phones each year, while supporting 250 other phones, of course there would be some that take much longer to refresh. And if you don’t think Primaris will receive the stormcast treatment, I dunno what to say, lol. GW has basically been practicing for 2 years now continuously pumping out releases for their poster boy. I HIGHLY doubt that once the Primaris codex is released we’ll never see them again.

            seems like fear-baiting to you, seems like reality-checking to me.

          • Rafał Pytlak

            As I see it it doesn’t need to compete with the Oldmarines. Just use them as the elite – instead if terminators or something. Maybe have them be the bulk of every chapter 1st company, and the rest mostly composed of the classic ubermen

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah, I guess then I just don’t get why they made them their own faction. Why not just make them new units for Space Marines?

          • Charon

            3rd best. The Elite of mankind is already overshadowed by the elite of the elite, which was the Grey Knights… makes the Primaris the Elite of the Elite of the Elite.

          • Drpx

            But Custodes still whoop all their hinnies.

        • euansmith

          “I met a traveller from an antique
          land,
          Who said—“Two short and thighless legs of stone
          Stand in the desert…
          Near them, on the sand,
          Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
          And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
          Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
          Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
          The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed;
          And on the pedestal, these words appear:
          My name is Calgar, Lord of Ultimar;
          Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
          Nothing beside remains. Round the
          decay
          Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare
          The lone and level sands stretch far away.”

        • zeno666

          Tell me, did someone pee in the old geneseed cans? 🙂

          I couldn’t be bothered to read the latest fluff.

      • Charon

        Every primaris release week is a week where no established race is getting a long overdue release (hell, most of the eldar range is not even from this century). Every primaris codex rlease means everything else gets pushed back.
        Also it is ridiculous to complain about a bloated marine range while at the same time cheer for the release of an “elite marine” range.

      • LEGION3000

        The problem comes when they phase out Beta marines. And they will…

        • OldHat

          Highly unlikely. Too profitable. Too much history. Makes no sense business or fluff wise.

          • Karru

            Highly likely. More profits if they do.

            Once the moulds get old and used, instead of replacing them and spending a lot of money, they will just prepare for it by increasing Guilmarine production and making sure that once they start phasing out regular Marines, Guilmarines will have all the “basic” units like CC Assault Variant, Biker Variant and so on.

            They will do this in around 3-5 years slowly as the old moulds get used. It will go just like AoS did it with Order. First they release a vague statement where they say that “your army will be playable and won’t be removed from the game” to assure their customers that it is still wise to keep spending money on them.

            Then they start giving lore reasons why certain armies are more “rare” or are going to be “rare” while at the same time making the new model line the centre of all the action and hype.

            After that, they start the phasing out. Little by little, they remove products from the store. Sometimes they do it without any warning or announcement, other times they just outright say “buy while stocks last, after they are gone, they are gone” and sell certain products so they can get rid of them.

            Then comes the final nail in the coffin, the one that funnily enough was actually there the entire time and most people just ignore it, rule support. They don’t get new rules as time passes on so those that collect said armies will gravitate towards the new products.

            And that is how you do business within GW. It is very subtle and clever, so I can understand how you can miss it so easily.

          • OldHat

            These are injection molds, not rubber molds. With regular maintenance, they will go on a loooooooooooong time. IE Chaos Space Marines are over a decade old and going strong.

            Plus, GW has said they won’t be replacing basic Marines. So they have straight up said so.

            It just doesn’t make sense financially to kill such an extensive, well-developed and profitable line.

            And as I said elsewhere on this one, you can’t compare AoS phase outs to 40k. That was a vastly different animal – a total reboot of fluff and a push towards a new aesthetic. This is not that.

          • Karru

            Are you seriously that blind?

            GW has said that Guilmarines won’t replace Regular Marines. This means that your SM models are still 100% usable as SM and not Guilmarines or vice versa.

            Nothing in there is assuring that SM won’t get phased out in the following years considering what GW has said in the past about their models and how they will still be usable once a new ruleset pops out.

          • OldHat

            “Are you seriously that blind?” Whoa tiger. Calm yourself.

            What I see is your panicking over something that the company has said won’t happen. I doubt they will be “phased out”. Time will tell, but it makes zero sense to do so.

          • Karru

            You are the perfect customer for GW. All I’m saying is that remembering the past does help a lot with the inevitable disappointment when GW pulls another one of their stunt. But you do you.

          • OldHat

            No, I am not. I am critical when it is due. This, though, is just unwarranted. The only time they have ever removed a faction wholly has been Squats. Otherwise, they continue to support existing factions even if they are barely hanging on by a thread (Sisters). Space Marines are their flagship model – while Primaris are a nice new shiny and will likely take the forefront, I can’t see them removing their highly profitable, most recognizable brand or replacing it (as they said they would do).

            And AoS is a horrible example to cite if that is what you mean by “remembering the past”. Otherwise, again, they haven’t really phased out a model line for an upgraded version beyond resculpts (which is not the same thing).

            Jeez folks. How about you stop fretting over this and only start actually caring if it ever happens for real.

      • Carey_Mahoney

        So what? Apply some common sense!

        • OldHat

          I have…? Not sure how I haven’t. Common sense plus you know… evidence.

          • Carey_Mahoney

            Nope. Neither.

    • Horus84cmd

      Now, I really like the new Primaris Marines and I looking forward to what the future holds for them. I looking forward to painting some and modelling them.

      However, frankly, it is being a tad absent minded if you think that SM won’t be going the way of the Dodo – the PM’s background make it clear the older marines can be upgraded. For sure, it will not be immediate and I imagine over the next 3-5 years or so, but they’ll be going. I won’t be surprised if we do not see a “huge” SM release again. Maybe the odd character here and there, but nothing big. If GW are on the ball (which they have been as of late); the SM will be phased out but will be made available every so often under the “Made-to-Order” banner.

      • ZeeLobby

        I’d even imagine we’ll see most redone characters return as Primaris characters.

    • Carey_Mahoney

      Totally true!

  • Luca Lacchini

    From my limited experience with a bunch of 8th ed. games, Primaris are just OK when fielded on their own (all Primaris force, just like the one in the DI box), but really shine if they’re alongside their stunty older brothers.
    Inceptors + Jump Assault Squad = awesome
    Hellblasters, Ancient&Captain + Devastator Centurions = Oh Sweet Wrathful Emperor
    Sprinkle Intercessors and Tacticals, plus Lieutenants, Apothecaries and Chaplains as needed.
    The Astartes vehicle park has gone up to 11, from Dreadnought to Landspeeder, from Razorback to Stormraven.

    The fluff still remains poor. That grav tank still looks stupid.

    The crunch IS there.

    • wibbling

      The fluff is what you make it. They don’t have 30 years of fiction behind them.

      The grav tank is nowhere near release and we’ve seen only one angle so your opinion is ridiculous. When we see more of it from multiple angles, then you can comment.

      • Luca Lacchini
        • dave long island

          Now cmon now, you boys play nice lol

      • OldHat

        One clear promo shot is enough to judge that thing by. The grav tank is ugly. You can disagree, but his opinion isn’t “ridiculous”.

        • ZeeLobby

          Anything that isn’t GW approved is ridiculous for wibbling.

        • zeno666

          Ugly indeed. Looks like Lego

          • OldHat

            How dare you insult LEGOs! 🙂

      • Commissar Molotov

        I know you regularly carry water for Gee Dub, so I’m not at all surprised to see you defending them. But yes, one angle is more than enough to see that grav-tank looks stupid as hell.

    • GWELLS

      For now anyway. I have a feeling when the new Codexes drop they are going to be changing up the rules for Primaris so they will be able to work more independent (they have already admitted that some units will be getting rule changes in the codexes.

      My theory is they made the rules in the indexes to intentially tone Primaris down so they wouldn’t be to off-putting on first release. They will probably tone them up down the line. There is already rumours of Intersessors getting bigger squads and heavy weapons, and the inceptors getting new weapons and close-combat weapons. Like an independent army should have.

  • Charon

    If even a famous BL author is not conviced about the primaris marines as the “actual elite of the elite of the elite” gets wonky and overshadows the former “elite of the elite of the elite”, I am completely on his side. It is plain stupid. I like the models, but the background and fluff is atrocious.

  • Silverbeast

    “it’s about time Space Marines finally got some love of their own.”
    I still can not decide this is a sarcasm or not…

  • Karru

    As many have pointed out, there are multiple completely valid reasons why Primaris are somewhat bad for the game.

    Their lore is atrocious and is on the level of the Wardfic from the past editions. Then there is the “fact” that hey were unnecessary to the game. We already had Space Marines so there was absolutely no need for a copy of the same army.

    My biggest gripe with them will be the inevitable fate of phasing out the old Marine line. It is clear that GW is giving Guilmarines everything they need to be a better version of Space Marines little by little. Once they have done it, they will stop supporting old marines bit by bit. Of course it will start early on by not getting any new models for old Marines, what they have now is all they’ll be getting this edition in that front. From there, they’ll most likely get a new book, but if there ever is any supplements or even new edition, Old Marines will most likely be excluded from it.

    This is what they’ve been doing on the Fantasy side. Most of the Order line is slowly being phased out in favour of the new factions. This will happen in 40k, GW is a business and businesses need to make money. What better way to make money than to sell veteran players their own army for a second time.

    The looks aren’t the problem for me. Like I mentioned, my problem is the inevitable replacement of old Marines. Expanding any old Marine army will be impossible at that point thanks to the fact that these guys are on a completely different level compared to old Marines and will stand out like a sore thumb.

    • wibbling

      They weren’t unnecessary, the proportions of the current marine range are silly. They’re all missing a stomach, for a start. Not to mention the spindly little thighs.

      • euansmith

        You shouldn’t knock someone else gym regime? Not everyone is up for Leg Day, or Ab Day. 😉

        • Fergie0044

          Black Carapace day is a real pain….

          • euansmith

            “Work that Betcher’s Gland, baby!”

          • 3AcresAndATau

            I’m just picturing some slacker IF skipping Betcher’s gland day one too many times during the Great Crusade, dribbling acid spit down his chin after trying to spit “Brother Hanz, I feel as if I haven’t worked my Betcher’s gland for months” “Because you haven’t worked it for months brother Fritz”. And a gene seed flaw is born.

          • euansmith

            The Emperor’s Drools.

    • euansmith

      I guess that, from GWs perspective, the old Marines where a bit of a dead end. They had got pretty much any units they needs (Scouts, Assault, Tactical, Devastators, Terminators, plus vehicles). Anything else they could add would have to appeal to a niche market, like adding a new Super Heavy or a new chapter. With the Primaris, they can sell their new kits to the maximum number of customers.

      • orionburn

        I agree. They’ve added a handful of new things over the past few years, but outside of redesigned models and/or new weapons (like assault & dev squads) there hasn’t been a lot of change. As a DA player I’ve pretty much maxed out what I want/need for my army. Where I would have stopped I now have the option to add the new Primaris stuff.

        For me I can choose to go one of two routes – focus on Primaris or if I wanted a “new” army I would start up a Xenos army like Necrons or Eldar. Either way GW wins, but I’m sure there are a lot of die hard Marine players that will only ever play Marines. This is a way to add to that player base.

        I get that the lore is a bit wonky and a lot of people hate it, but as a business decision it seems to be working pretty well. As to all those that are trying to play the “I’m leaving” martyr it isn’t gong to matter. There are more people that have returned to playing at my FLGS that I’ve ever seen before.

        • Adam Wright

          I tend to agree. GW is a business, and businesses exist solely to make money. The Space Marine armies have been around a long time, so veteran players probably have tons of them already. It’s hard to make money off those players if they aren’t buying much of anything new. So, in comes the Primaris Marines. Now, players of all types, veteran and newbies, can be purchasing entirely new Marine armies and units.

          New army+players-profit.

          (Yes, the fluff behind them is pretty hamfisted I agree, but the models look great and I’m so glad theyre actually bigger than a regular human model for once!)

        • euansmith

          I actually quite like the fluff. The idea that most of the Ad Mech are going to outwardly, or secretly, view the Primaris as being the worst sort of heresy and will revile Cawl for daring to develop something new.

          Of course, Cawl could have got around this by claiming not to have created anything, but to have uncovered an STC for Thunder Warriors.

          I think that, while the Imperial Propaganda machine (GW releases) might toe the party the line, there is a lot of room players to include a lot of fun infighting among the followers of the False Emperor and the false followers of the Emperor.

          • orionburn

            And I’ll keep hoping on hope that the Primaris boys lead the way to another civil war/uprising within the Imperium. Fluff wise it would create a lot of awesome opportunities to see Imperium infighting again with huge chaos & xenos threats added to the mix.

        • Schnauzer

          Same here.

          Even the die hard Warmahordes players are on the hype.

        • GWELLS

          Yeah it is a bit wonky. I believe that down the line they will probably throw in some ret-cons to smooth out the fluff, right now it all feels a little rushed.

      • ZeeLobby

        well, they basically get to resell their whole space marine line. If only they just said, these are the new space marines, and didn’t shoehorn horrible fluff into it.

    • Fergie0044

      Totally agree with your overall point, but I don’t think ‘they’ll stick out like a sore thumb’ is valid criticism for adding Numarines to existing forces. The same could be said for anyone adding the latest minimarine releases to their old 2nd or 3rd edition army. The marine range as a whole have all gotten bigger over time – this is just the next step.

      • Karru

        The difference between old Marines getting updated in the past vs Guilmarines is that the aesthetics were kept relatively the same. Like, if you look at an old 2nd Edition Tactical Marine, the difference is that the latest Marines are much more “smoother” and have more poses. They might be slightly smaller than latest Tacticals.

        Meanwhile, a Guilmarine has almost completely reworked armour, bigger gun and are head taller than regular Marines. On top of that they are a lot more bulkier than old Marines. Then you have the new units that are taking over the old units. For example, the Primaris Assault Marines with two Heavy Bolter Pistols. Their armour doesn’t in the slightest share the design of the Assault Marines.

        So in time once they start rolling out their CC variants, Bikes and Terminators, they will look completely different from old Marines. This is a deliberate design decision. Completely new look means they won’t fit in with the old Marines so people have to either try to put up with it or just outright “replace” their army with Guilmarines.

        • Fergie0044

          Fair enough – didn’t think of that. Although I’ve seen an original land raider and it looks nothing like the current type.

    • GWELLS

      Yeah, and once new units and rules come out in the codexes they will likely be able to play as a singular force (no old-marines as back-up) and eventually as new players get on board with them and the meta shifts in their favour it will just be a gradual replacement.

      Not a quick death but a gradual replacement of the old marines.

      • Karru

        Exactly. I feel like most of the people that are denying that Guilmarines were meant to replace old Marines think that it would happen next month or something. This is a slow process that takes years. If they did it at once, GW would lose way too many customers in a flash.

        • GWELLS

          See this allows the older players to at least keep their armies in the short-term while GW gradually weans them onto the new Primaris stuff.

          See this actually shows how smart they have gotten. They know if they just did it all at once (a-la Age of Sigmar) they would piss off too many people who would likely just rage quit all at once (then que videos of people burning their space marine armies).

          And it would be cheaper too, they could use their old army and gradually replace parts of it with new stuff over time (years) instead of just all at once.

  • Mike X (Official)

    It’s psychological marketing. GW knows that we’re perfectionists when it comes to building, posing, and painting our models. We like consistency.

    By introducing these “big marines”, what they’ve done is thrown off the uniformity of our army. They know that slowly but surely these oversized models will irritate us, and we’ll eventually replace our old Marines with these new ones – squad by squad.

    It’s like using the old 12″ GI Joe dolls alongside the 4″ GI Joe action figures. It’s going to clash in our minds.

    It’s a seriously cruel moneygrab tactic, and I for one have officially quit 40K because of it.

    • Schnauzer

      And I returned because of it.

      • ZeeLobby

        lol. I’ve heard many people return to 40K because of many reasons of 8th not being the 6th/7th dumpster fire. But you are the first that’s stated it’s purely for big-marines. That’s ballsy.

        • Schnauzer

          It’s called taste.

          • ZeeLobby

            Never tried eating them, but I’m not big on digestible plastic anyway.

          • Schnauzer

            The key is to savour them before melting.

          • ZeeLobby

            Ahhh XD.

    • Rafał Pytlak

      Good thing i’m kinda on the slob side and don’t care. mold lines? Let them be. Too much red paint, overlaping the golden aquila? Who cares, nobody will look on them this close…
      Now if it was books from the same series but different editions with not matching covers…now THAT means war!

    • DJ860

      “Psychological marketing” also know as, marketing.

    • Benjamin E

      Your call, man. You’re missing out on a fantastic edition. But if you’re out, you’re out, and that’s fair. As long as you stop going onto 40k message boards and forums to complain about it.

      • Schnauzer

        Not gonna happen.

    • Horus84cmd

      I here GW are contaminating the world’s water supply so that anyone who’s a naturally inclined geek will play and buy loads of GW models…

    • ZeeLobby

      32mm bases.

  • Heinz Fiction

    If i was starting a Space marine army today i’d bux Primaris Marines exclusively. If I already had an army, I’d get all the old marines I need, before they get moved from the shelves. I think a mix of both looks silly.

    • Son_of_Corax_XIX

      If the current space marines were going to be taken away they already would be plus it’s an ironic image and model design that all branches of GW use ie FW plus Primaris weren’t in the heresy so the current space marines will never leave.

      • ZeeLobby

        Why would they already have been taken away? I’m sure there’s a ton of inventory GW can push, and it allows GW to stand by it’s “you can still play all your old armies” stance.

        • Son_of_Corax_XIX

          Go ask any GW head office employee on twitter and you will get that as do all the FLGS and store managers, they aren’t going anywhere.

          • ZeeLobby

            I mean god. I hope they’d have a unified enough message not to say that they’ll be scrapped before their replacements have even been released.

          • Son_of_Corax_XIX

            Not at all, look at reports with Primaris they only function with normal marines.
            Also not every chapter is going to accept Primaris marines. You do realise molds will need to be replaced currently for current marines and they aren’t bought in ones and twos and not all at the same time for every kit so marines as they stand aren’t going anywhere. Nothing about a unified message even the lore from Dark Imperium states current marines are not going anywhere.
            Heresy is based on current marines as it a majority of conversion kits from FW etc.
            It’s quite common sense plus they won’t scrap something they have been known with for 30 years and is iconic to them.
            Use your brain with this and it’s obvious they are t going plus the current assault marine kit for example is only 2 years old and you don’t make that investment in kit and time and resources to scrap it so soon.

          • Horus84cmd

            Typically, it takes GW months to make the money back on the initial expenditure of the mould for ranges like the Space Marines, because they sell that many. However, most kits cover their initial outlay cost in under a year.

          • Son_of_Corax_XIX

            You do know they by 10s to 100s of moulds at a time so it will never cover the costs back in a year. especially when they sell kits to FLGS at a small margins.

          • Horus84cmd

            10s-100s of moulds? What are you on about. A single mould, for something like a tactical marine sprue, last upto 500,000 cycles when maintained correctly. That sort of mould could top out at £100-150,000. Lets take the midway price at £125,000. Say they sell that particular kits to retailers at £15. That means they need to sell approx 8335 units to break even. Now there are over a 1000 independent stockist around the world in addition to the 400 GW stores, plus the webstore. GW literally need to sell less that one unit per independant stockist to make the money back on the initial outlay for that single mould.

            FYI – GW make profit per £1 of income from independant stockist since GW are not losing a chunk of that pound to cover the cost of the store and staff.

          • Son_of_Corax_XIX

            Well your last point is complete and utter rubbish. They make up to 60% of their profit from independent stores.
            They make a handsome income from independents that’s far more than a pound.
            They do buy 10s of mould s up to 100 at a time because it’s cheaper and more cost effective than 1s and 2s.
            How many tactical squads are made a day to ship world wide over the past 8 years since its release?
            Your thinking small numbers and clearly have no idea of cost to profit margins for manufacturing or how to run a business let alone a publicly traded one
            You forget packaging and the. Shipping costs, taxes, import and export duty, wages, rent, rates etc…..

          • Horus84cmd

            Evidently you’ve not understood what I wrote. I said they make MORE profit PER £1 SOLD through independent i.e. (I don’t know the actual break down as that info is not release) for example GW make might £0.75 profit in every pound revenue through independents whereas that same pound in a GW store would make say £0.40 profit. Ergo they make MORE PER £1 VIA independants. As you say that of GW overall revenue approx 60% is coming in through independants.

            I don’t get what your on about with the 10s/100s of moulds. Because they certainly do not manufacture 10s of moulds for one miniature sprue. Depending on the size frame a mould may have 6-8 etchings a single frame made into it; so every cycle produces more final product.

            Please don’t presume what I do or don’t know and learn to comprehend when you read.

          • Son_of_Corax_XIX

            To be honest I lost interest in what you said when you stated GW don’t by 10s of the same mould at a time when any company that works with these does this as it’s standard industry practice.
            I will admit I skimmed what you read as it’s based solely on assumption with no facts so not worth considering in a factual conversation.
            You do know what assume means right?
            Still think about it? If you sell something you want to make atleast 50% profit and that’s what they make to independents at the most so again I can safely say you don’t know anything about manufacturing or running a business

          • Horus84cmd
          • Horus84cmd

            Hahaha. Do you think any front line staff are going to be in the know? Studio is working on project 2-3 years ahead. As release date approach then information filters down. Information is only released to the parts of the company that when they know about it in any official way.

          • Son_of_Corax_XIX

            Actually that’s where your wrong.
            The marine codex for example was finished a few months ago.
            It takes 11 months to make the plastic moulded from the initial sculpt so your wildly inaccurate there.
            Front line staff as you call them especially the Warhammer world ones know a lot and go into all departments.
            Also independents for example especially USA ones know about a month in advance what’s coming out compared to 1-2 weeks for UK ones.
            I knew of a UK GW manager who told me 8th was probabaly dropping when it did in January as he got told then. So they know more than you think, maybe they don’t trust you enough to tell you as they know you’ll blab it all on sites like this

          • Horus84cmd

            Well tell that to the studio team who have all been on WH-Twitch talking about the project and how they had been working on it for at least 24-30 months; from their first sit down to the project being finished. They were all lying? If I recall correctly they said 8th was ready to go around this time last year.

            Yeah to produce the mould and sculpt you’re right. But what about the initial concept through to it hitting the shelves is longer. Models have to be produced and painted for publications (yes I know they then to do resin ones for this as a mould won’t necessary be done.

            So, just perhaps, the people you describe probably got told the info when they needed to know it?

          • Son_of_Corax_XIX

            Not at all they said 8th took 18 months of development so last I checked 18 less than 24.
            Right so skitarii of that logic have been in development since the 80s when jes first drew them? Come on use your head.
            Also I’ve spoken to Andy Hoare who gave the me the figures on design to produce and it’s 11 months for the mould and if they are lucky they get 6 months to design the model sketch to concept.
            Speak to GW artists and you’ll find nearly every piece of art is never finished to their standards before it’s used.
            But let me guess you never speak to any of those people so anyone who does is lying

    • luke-vdv

      If I was starting a Space Marine army I would use the regular marines because their models look better.

  • Aura1

    The fluff is wonky and the models are cool. I pretty much agree with this general sentiment. My main issue is actually one overlooked in all this arguing – the 3 new organs eliminate the ‘flaws’ – this rendering unique chapter traits to history. No more black rage, red thirst, Wulfen curse, black dragon spikiness. The problem with ‘perfecting’ the Marines is you render them all vanilla. I want my gore flavoured ice cream thanks!

    • Rafał Pytlak

      For me what make them unique was not the flaws, but their history, fluff and gene-fathers. I kinda can live without my Blood Angels going all vampire berserker. Just beautiful guys in ornamented artifice nipple armout makes them unique.

      • Aura1

        But the beautiful guys gene was part of Sanguinius’ ‘flaws’. With purifying the geneseed do we know they even get to be beautiful non-emo Space vegetarian post vampires? Or are the going to be ugly Baal stock with gigantism? The flaws add to their character rather than cloud it, to me. I’m hopeful GW allow the character to seep back in however. It seems daft to vanillify every chapter with perfected, flawless types.

        • Rafał Pytlak

          Well looking all Johny Deep/Bradd Pitt like is more of a gene-boon than a gene-flaw, so i think good ol’ Cawl left that part of the gene untouched. If not let’s just call it Sanguinor magic so the “precious hawk boy” sons can be fabulous. Smelling like a dog from Fenris…now that ‘s a flaw to erase! I’m not opposed to “vanilla” as long as it’s more “Imperial Fist vanilla” than Smurf sauce…

    • Horus84cmd

      You realise the background very much alludes that Crawl work has not perfected as much as he thought he has and that there are signs things like the Black Rage and Mark of the Wulfen is affecting them over time.

      • Aura1

        I’m aware that some hints have been left that they will go back to genetic flaws, but the only concise fluff we have so far indicates that the 3 organs reduce genetic instability to 0.0001% and that removes the flaws. If GW decide Cawl is a bit of a fraud with his science results and the Primaris start to out their primarch’s inherent mutations then I’m all for it. Currently though, hints in a novel and the possibility raised don’t amount to contesting what the core Primaris description indicates.

  • orionburn
    • Arianod

      Do people use “irregardless” unironically?

      …why am I even asking, of course they do.

    • euansmith

      Irrespective of the message, that is a delightful little frog.

      • kloosterboer

        Irresistible.

    • Yeah, I hate that word. It’s doubly redundant ;p

      • orionburn

        We need a department of redundancy department!

        • kloosterboer

          Superfluous.

    • dave long island

      Oh yeah, I hate the use of the nonsense word ‘irregardless’. So stupid and irritating!!… It’s like the new thing, where people answer a question by first saying ‘so’ before actually answering the question… lol… People just started doing that for no particular reason. Stop doing that!!… lol

  • Scott Irvine

    So this whole issue with the Primaris fluff, let’s step back and look at what we have.

    We pretty much have 3 sources of fluff right now (only 3!), we have the main rulebook, the small Primaris booklet in the DI set and then we have the novel named DI as well.

    So I think it’s pretty obvious that the rulebook and the Primaris booklet don’t paint the whole picture, as the amount of fluff they present is very small (only a few pages from both of them).

    The DI novel on the other hand, that explains a little bit more, but once again, doesn’t focus on the Primaris solely (as they are not the main subject of the plot in the novel).

    So I think it’s safe to say that yes, the fluff isn’t amazing right now, but 8th has just dropped! We’ve just got the Primaris and we’re complaining about the fluff? Come on now!

    I seem to remember a couple of years ago that we had a similar issue with Age of Sigmar, and now look what’s happened. It’s become a very detailed world, but once again it’s not finished, not by a long shot.

    The simple fact is the Primaris, like Age of Sigmar, haven’t had over 30 years of development and refinement to give them the rich and expansive fluff that we want.

    The simple answer to this? Give them time! Let GW release the Primaris codex and campaign books, let BL release more novels with more backstory for the Primaris and how they have adapted to the other chapters (especially the first founding). Then they will have the fluff to go with their awesome look!

    If the fluff hasn’t changed within 6 months, then I will hold my hands up and admit people may have a point. But until then, let’s try not to jump to conclusions or blatantly refuse to accept change.

    Ironically 2 of the factors that led the Imperium to where it is now.

    • Sonic tooth

      I see alot of potential with the primaris but the aos fluff is still crap. My issue is ultramarines overkill everywhere (again). Fkkn ward HAS to be involved…I know it!

  • Krizzab

    the only ppl that hate Übbermarines are the old Untersmarines. They are taller, stronger, prettier, Expensive in IRL money and have grav vehicles, suck that old Astartes!

  • Moose

    “Irregardless”….

    Seriously? It is Irrespective or regardless.

      • CthulhuDawg

        Usage note

        Irregardless is considered nonstandard because of the two negative elements ir- and -less. It was probably formed on the analogy of such words as irrespective, irrelevant, and irreparable. Those who use it, including on occasion educated speakers, may do so from a desire to add emphasis. Irregardless
        first appeared in the early 20th century and was perhaps popularized by
        its use in a comic radio program of the 1930s.

        Random House, Inc. 2017.

      • orionburn

        It’s kind of like using the word ain’t. Technically it isn’t a word, but most of us use it anyway. I’m guilty of using irregardless from time to time, but after I beat myself Fight Club style I’m usually good for a few months.

        • dave long island

          Just don’t say ‘alot’. Nothing screams uneducated dingus with moldy green cheese between your ears like using the fake word ‘alot’… lol

          • Moose

            use instead “a mess of”

          • dave long island

            Sure, you can do that. Or you can just use ‘a lot’. IOW two words instead of one.

  • Darkcat

    I dont like the fluff of them… I smell herasy. I dont see them as space marines. To me they are a new faction for the imperiun. Remind me of stormcast eternal from AoS.

    • Schnauzer

      Did you type that while slighty tapping your index finger on the side of the nose?

  • Bakvrad

    We are the space marines that always say nü!
    Nü!
    nü! Nü! Nü!

    The primaris Marines are interesting and I can’t wait to see, where they are going. Especially how they are integretated into the chapter organization.

    • orionburn

      And you must listen to NuMetal when you play with your NuMarines.

      • kloosterboer

        Or NuEdition.

        • Derek Lee

          New Primaris Black Templar Sucessor Chapter idea: The Knights who say “Nu”.

  • miniwar monger

    These new true scale marines really are killing the old stubs.

    I feel they are also killing the Forgeworld unscaled Heresy marines.

    • thereturnofsuppuppers

      new rules really make 30k feel clunky as well. Hope to get a slightly more complex version of 8th for it.

  • CthulhuDawg

    New technology? Actual concerted effort to bolster marine chapters? Hope? WHERE MY GRIMDARK GONE!?!?!

    • thereturnofsuppuppers

      pride before the fall

    • ZeeLobby

      The most grimdark we’ll get at this point is comic book movie grimdark.

    • 301stFeinminsterArmoured

      It was busy melting half the galaxy?

    • davepak

      care to give back your new plasma then?

      • CthulhuDawg

        Absolutely, particularly plasma cannons. I started missing templates my first game in.

    • Nicolas M

      Yup.

      GRIMDARK died with 8th, and with it what made 40k unique and interesting.

      • Drpx

        Still holding out on Guilliman being a Haemonculus puppet and the Primaris going Order 66 on everything.

    • Drpx

      Yeah, who’s bright idea was it to start tossing that word around?

  • SacTownBrian
  • dave long island

    What was the old Nü Black?

  • Daniel Sanchez

    You used the word ” irregardless” and I stopped reading. Good post and points up until that.

    • OldHat

      Irregardless is a word. You might not like it, but it is.

      • Crablezworth

        Can’t tell if satire

    • I am glad you stopped reading .

  • EmperorOfMankind

    irregardless…

  • 3AcresAndATau

    These arguments don’t even really address the concern. All I see is “Don’t like ’em, don’t use ‘me. The new guys are strong and fun”. I like Primaris marines, don’t get me wrong, these arguments just aren’t convincing me that DVD marines will really stick around with Bluray marines.

  • +1

  • rui valadares

    Sorry for the nitpick but “irregardless”?

    • These arguments don’t even really address the concern. All I see is “Don’t like ’em, don’t use ‘me. The new guys are strong and fun”. I like Primaris marines, don’t get me wrong, these arguments just aren’t convincing me that DVD marines will really stick around with Bluray marines.These arguments don’t even really address the concern. All I see is “Don’t like ’em, don’t use ‘me. The new guys are strong and fun”. I like Primaris marines, don’t get me wrong, these arguments just aren’t convincing me that DVD marines will really stick around with Bluray marines.These arguments don’t even really address the concern. All I see is “Don’t like ’em, don’t use ‘me. The new guys are strong and fun”. I like Primaris marines, don’t get me wrong, these arguments just aren’t convincing me that DVD marines will really stick around with Bluray marines.These arguments don’t even really address the concern. All I see is “Don’t like ’em, don’t use ‘me. The new guys are strong and fun”. I like Primaris marines, don’t get me wrong, these arguments just aren’t convincing me that DVD marines will really stick around with Bluray marines.These arguments don’t even really address the concern. All I see is “Don’t like ’em, don’t use ‘me. The new guys are strong and fun”. I like Primaris marines, don’t get me wrong, these arguments just aren’t convincing me that DVD marines will really stick around with Bluray marines.These arguments don’t even really address the concern. All I see is “Don’t like ’em, don’t use ‘me. The new guys are strong and fun”. I like Primaris marines, don’t get me wrong, these arguments just aren’t convincing me that DVD marines will really stick around with Bluray marines.These arguments don’t even really address the concern. All I see is “Don’t like ’em, don’t use ‘me. The new guys are strong and fun”. I like Primaris marines, don’t get me wrong, these arguments just aren’t convincing me that DVD marines will really stick around with Bluray marines.

  • benn grimm

    The fluff is stupid, but it’s ok if you just think of them as marines which are now closer to correct scale. Forget all the silliness and they are pretty cool.

  • Sureia

    No one is saying that they’re bad, I hope, but the background and aesthetic seems like it’s throwing lore out the window. Call them true scale, as we know they are, and use Primaris to explain the change in stats, but just admit that this is what marines should always have looked like.

  • Nicolas M

    My god.

    ALL thos point were garbage and insulting to the reader intelligence.

    • and you cant even spell .

      • Nicolas M

        And you can’t even punctuate properly, use capitals, be constructive or be a decent human being.

        I keep my bad spelling of a language that’s not even mine, thank you very much.

        • wow man just chill and dont get so bent out of shape. Wow !

          Also probably you should stick with your native language .

          • Nicolas M

            Wow man! You probably should stick to sucking your thumb at night to fall asleep instead of trying to get edgy on the internet, if you dad caught you, he will beat you and your mom again!

  • Keith GatlingGun Gatchalian

    There is no such word as irregardless.

    • why you say that ? I am guessing you never got past lets say 3rd grade.