Tabletop Industry: The Top 5 Games Are…

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After the fifth straight day of 100+ weather, spring is long dead. Here’s how your favorite games stacked up.

Spring is gone, Summer is well on its way to reminding us that one day the sun will consume our world in a blaze of stellar glory that will leave naught but ash in its wake. So with that cheerful thought in mind, it’s time to look at how all of our favorite games stack up against each other in terms of the top sales. So try and take a little bit of time to distract yourself from the inevitability of the earth’s eventual demise and figure out the worth of your favorite hobby game!

There’s only one or two big surprises this time around–the top dogs are the ones you might expect. But let’s go see for ourselves.

via ICv2

RPGs

Here’s the RPG breakdown for Spring 2017. Dungeons and Dragons continues to be the number one RPG followed by Pathfinder. Curiously enough Star Wars is third, followed closely by Adventures in Middle-Earth (which is itself a 5th Edition book). And Shadowrun hangs on at 5th place against all odds. Which, don’t get me wrong, I’m excited to see it there, I am just surprised.

Card/Dice Games

Here we are with some Card/Dice games. These aren’t CCGs, but are the kind of Card and/or Dice games I’d lump in with Board Games. You have Arkham Horror taking the top spot for FFG, followed by the excellent Codenames. Which, if you haven’t played it, get out there and do it right now. What the heck are you waiting for. Actually I’d feel comfortable recommending any of the games on this list–so if you’re looking for some fun games (not necessarily quick ones, though there are plenty of those on here as well) this is a great place to start.

Boardgames

Speaking of board games, here we go. And let me just say how pleased I am to see Scythe at the top spot. That game is amazing. Equal parts worker strategy/action economy game, 4x-like, and industrial revolutionary Russia simulator, it’s real fun to play. And with the expanded factions, it is definitely worth tracking down if you can find it. It plays so different each time, I love it. Pandemic is hanging around at spot number 5 followed by the excellent Mansions of Madness and both of these are amazing. At any rate, a few interesting results here.

CCGs

Surprising no one, Magic, Pokemon, and Yu-Gi-Oh! continue to be the top 3 ccgs of all time forever and in that order. Unless you look at sales through big box retailers, and then it’s Pokemon, Magic, and Yu-Gi-Oh! I maintain that Yu-Gi-Oh! will occupy the number 3 slot forever for no other reason than it is the only game out there that allows you to say, “you just activated my trap card.”

Miniatures Games

And then finally we have miniatures games.X-Wing is the number one miniatures game out there right now, sitting atop the Skull Throne that was once GW’s to hold. 40K still hangs on at spot number 2 though, with WizKids’ new line of D&D miniatures coming in at number 3. Which, given the quality of them, I’m not surprised to see their ascendancy–especially when you take into account that they’re meant for the number 1 rpg out there.

Well, there you have it. All the game rankings listed out in black and white (and orange and grey). What do you think? Does the invisible hand of the market really know what’s best? Or is capitalism a failed experiment that not only takes power from the workers (to whom it rightfully belongs) but can’t even figure out which dang game is the best one out there?

Be sure and let us know in the comments.

  • How in the holy hell is Armada #4? I literally cannot find any players for that game.

    • Champildhir

      I know 3-4 in both Spain and Japan. Most people that I know playing Xwing don’t have the cash to play Armada as well (including myself…)

    • I believe this is US only, and the Star Wars stuff sells in a lot more outlets than other miniature games. My guess is that a lot of people outside the hobby collect the bigger ships.

      • ledha

        it really vary. I play in one place in Paris (where there is dozen of place for playing wargame) and i know at least 20 players of armada

        • Cergorach

          Paris is the 9th largest city in Europe. Edge does the French version of Armada, which is generally cheaper then the US version from FFG (strange enough).

      • That could be very valid yes.

      • Matthew Pomeroy

        Star Wars has a much greater appeal to far larger group of folks than 40k though. I have seen Star Wars stuff in countries where 40k does not even exist.

      • Richard Mitchell

        True, when it comes to consumerism and economy, we carry a lot of weight.

    • marlowc

      I play a lot of Armada – it’s excellent, and much cheaper than 40K ๐Ÿ™‚

      • CloakingDonkey

        you’re in the US though, right? Cause in Europe they’re absurdly expensive… even with a 20% discount you still pay some serious cash on tiny ships.

        • marlowc

          Nope, I be from zummerzet ooh argh, ooh argh.
          I play Imperials, and I reckon in all the years I’ve been at it, it’s cost me less than ยฃ150. You don’t need many ships.
          Don’t even like to think what my Orks for 40K have cost me!

          • CloakingDonkey

            I guess it depends what you play and how much of it you unwisely collect ๐Ÿ˜‰ I’m sure if you didn’t spend more than “needed” on your Orks…

          • marlowc

            I’m sure I don’t know what you mean. ALL my Ork purchases have been sensible, mature, thoroughly well considered, and absolutely vital to life as we know it ๐Ÿ™‚

          • Arthfael

            Don’t ork players look their little brother’s toys when they run out of teef to spend on shiny dakka?

          • marlowc

            Outrageous slander! We ebay our siblings’ stuff way before running out of teef ๐Ÿ™‚

          • silashand

            Well said! Orks iz best!!!

          • CloakingDonkey

            What do you mean I couldn’t ever possibly play 250 Ork Boys? SHUT UP, YOU’RE NOT MY MOTHER!

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            Gurt lush.

    • frankelee

      Just buying one ship on impulse, thinking you might get another game in sometime this year is a decent chunk of change.

      • eh. Cmpared to games like 40k Armada is very cheap. Compared to xwing where you can literally have a tourney force with about $60, yes I’d agree.

        • frankelee

          Well comparisons aside, I mean to say, when I drop $40 on a single new model to put on my book shelf, it’s at least a decent chunk of change for a person not actively playing. And I’m sure plenty of people do likewise, so it adds up.

    • pad_uk

      I’m a member of two sizable Wargames Clubs in the London area with a combined membership of around 200 (on paper anyway). I know of about 6 people who have got it – I have never seen it played.

    • silashand

      Dunno about anywhere else, but there is a fairly active community in my area (Denver) for both X-Wing and Armada. I play Armada only occasionally (mainly because I have gaming ADHD :-)), but it’s a really well done game, especially since the recent set of FAQs. I can easily see it being very popular. Frankly, while I enjoy the hobby element, the fact that both X-Wing and Armada are pre-painted to a decent standard is a HUGE factor in the appeal of the game to me at least.

      • X-Wing is massive here in Louisville. Its the largest community of any of the games, surpassing even 40k at its height.

        Prepainted and needing few models is why I think it does so well. I”ve always said if 40k came preassembled and prepainted, that they’d open the flood gates to a ton of players, but that would destroy the hobby aspect of assembling, etc. (you can paint xwing models now though the people that I know that do that are very much in the minority)

        • UnpluggedBeta

          If 40k came preassembled and prepainted about 90% of the people who play it would move to something else. A lot of people posit prepainting as the reason AT-43 failed.

          • While there’s no global poll to actually draw upon, I know that at least in my community that most people wouldn’t leave at all if things came prepainted.

            I dare say only about 1 out of 5 of the players I know actually give a fig about fielding painted armies in the first place.

            I also know that from past online polls that many players that frequent xwing boards say that they would play a game like 40k if they didn’t have to hobby (glue, and paint).

            So in conclusion I don’t think 90% of the people that play it would move to something else. I think that a fraction of the hobbyists may do this, but the hobbyists I find don’t make up a large portion of the player base anyway, and many of the hobbyists I know don’t even play the game anyway so would be totally oblivious.

          • UnpluggedBeta

            It’s mostly anecdotal, but it’s been brought up elsewhere in this comment section (granted, by myself) that AT-43’s stated reason for failing was the pre-painted miniature portion driving away the hobbyist crowd.

            I’m not going to make any guesses as to how the xwing crowd would treat 40k and the like (that crowd has been targeted many a time), but I’m fairly certain that the existing 40k playerbase would not be happy with a move to prepainted, preassembled.

            There is a happy medium with the way Dust does things though: paintable miniatures that also offer prepainted, pre-assembled options. Who knows how profitable that is, but I’ve never seen it played in NA or Europe.

          • I think that model would blow the doors down and would definitely make 40k more competitive from a sales stance. I’d be doubly interested to know the difference between sales on standard 40k kits (what we have now) vs prepainted and assembled 40k kits.

            My guess is that the prepainted stuff would be dominant.

          • BClement

            DUST had a lot of promise – but then the studio (DUST Studio) and the publisher at the time (FFG) had a bit of a falling out. DUST Studio tried to go with a different publisher but, (Un)surprisingly there were more issues.
            I don’t know the whole story but I do remember there being a lawsuit at some point….

            Whatever the current version of DUST is now is just not…good. The old ruleset from FFG was much better but before it had a real shot at taking off it got canned. Plus this other game called X-Wing kind of took off for FFG so …yeah.

            DUST’s biggest problem (now) isn’t and has never been the miniatures. AT-43’s issue wasn’t the miniatures either…it had more to due with mechanics that just didn’t catch on. Maybe it’s the scale of the battle (skirmish vs big table battles) or maybe it’s just some fundamental issues with the games core mechanics. After looking through both rule sets I just put the books down and said “no thanks” and I get the feeling I’m not the only one.

      • Matthew Pomeroy

        I am also a local, and yeah you cant walk through any local FLGS and not see armada and xwing being played, hell I even have some fleets ๐Ÿ˜€ havent seen a game of AoS since the last time I dragooned some friends into giving it a try.

        • Richard Mitchell

          True, prepainted and ease of play, and low cost, even as a hobby centric player, I play and own X-Wing stuff.

          • Matthew Pomeroy

            well consider in as well there are folks like me who had never intended to play either xwing or armada but bought alot of stuff to use in the FFG star wars rpg series (then ended up playing star wars and armada as well) both games service multiple player types.

  • AEZ

    In previous edit I n of this topic it was mentioned that somehow there is a lack of aces to some gw data which made that ,is less reliable to interpret.. is that still the case?

    • This whole thing is really feelsy, as it uses, in ICv2’s words “interviews with retailers, distributors, and manufacturers.” This is less about data and more about what is “hot right now” kind of conversations. This is also US only, I believe.

  • GiftoftheMagi

    Well lookie here. Age Of Sigmar went from 4th to not even on the chart. Even Armada beat it. So much for that revival.

    • marlowc

      Ironically, the new 40K seems to have torpedoed AoS doesn’t it. Everyone I know that had at least tried to make a go of the mess that is AoS, is now fervently into 40K.
      Hopefully, this is the beginning of the end for the Realms setting, and we can get back to supported gaming in the best fantasy setting yet created ๐Ÿ™‚

      • CptCaven

        Haha, in your dreams and mine. That would be a tough pill for GW to swallow… but if they did…I would spend so much $$$. I miss my rank&file.

      • BaronVonYoloing

        No offence but I think you’re deluded if you think the Realms setting is going any time soon.

        Old Fantasy may have been nicer in some ways (Tomb Kings were my main army in Fantasy) but it didn’t sell. Period. The system was actually costing GW money toward the end.

        Also what mess? AoS plays very nicely in my experience (granted I don’t play many tournaments apart from the GT earlier this year). What’s your issue with it?

        • marlowc

          Firstly of course, the Realms setting and the new game rules are two totally separate issues aren’t they. Everyone seems to think they are joined at the hip for some reason.
          I find the new setting to be totally uninspiring, contrived, and amateurishly written. The Old World was marvellously down to earth, gritty, and even had a sense of humour – yes I know it was hardly original, but it was the best.
          The new game rules are over-pruned, and require so much house ruling it’s ridiculous.
          In all fairness you can’t blame GW for not realising that you need a rank and file structure to introduce an element of skill into this type of game. Even I, initially welcomed the change to skirmish mode, but it seems experience has shown rank and file to be the best for Swords & Sorcery games.

          • GnomesForge

            Sorry, why cant be blame a company with millions at their disposal and over 30 years experience? Who if not them?

          • marlowc

            To be honest, GW have never been renowned for their games design have they? Even before Rick and Alessio left, they never had a world class Games Designer on the staff. Their stuff is mostly about the models isn’t it. To my mind the only great “game” they’ve ever done is Necromunda, and possibly Man O War, though that needs a lot of house ruling.

          • Goatsplitter

            I think they had ‘the guy’ once. Toumas Piernan (sp?) was great in my book, but he has long left for video games.

          • marlowc

            That just goes to show how strong personal taste is in games doesn’t it ๐Ÿ™‚ I totally hated the stuff Tuomas Pirinen did – his siege rules for WHFB were absolutely awful!

          • Goatsplitter

            Never played siege, so I will have to take your word. He did the core 6th rules and I think they were great

          • Ghachii

            Your issue with the setting is personal taste. Your assertion that it’s amateurishly written doesn’t wash when you take into account the obvious fact that the people writing for AoS are the *same people* who wrote for WHFB.

            The rules don’t require any house ruling. You can play RAW and have a great time. Some people add a few house rules to make the game better suit their tastes. Hardly ‘ridiculous’.

            Turn your hyperbole dial down a bit.

          • marlowc

            Well of course, all gaming is a matter of personal taste, like art, music, cars and women!
            If you think I’m being hyperbolic, I apologise, but can’t help wondering how many forums you look at regularly ๐Ÿ˜‰

          • Ghachii

            Does it matter how many forums I look at? Firstly, no forum is going to give you a truly representative snapshot of the broader reality. They all have their cliques, quirks and biases.

            Secondly, even if they collectively did give you an accurate picture, you’d have to keep tabs on a significant proportion of the hundreds of online communities out there. Whatever it is you think you know based on your relatively small online sample, there’s no way you can be confident that it’s an accurate representation.

            If you’re right about AoS, it’s through sheer luck and coincidence, not because your forum activity makes you privy to some great insight.

          • marlowc

            No, you misunderstand – I’m not claiming any Guru-like wisdom about gaming, heaven forbid. What I was gently trying to say was that if you think I’m being hyperbolic – you ain’t seen nothin’ ๐Ÿ™‚ ๐Ÿ™‚ ๐Ÿ™‚

          • Ghachii

            Ah, yes I did misunderstand! Apologies! I’m obviously in a combative mood today!

          • marlowc

            No worries – the problem with this Discus format forum is there’s no emoticons.
            I for one, find it really hard to convey that I’m smiling when I do most of my posts, and they shouldn’t be taken too seriously – Jeez these are GAMES we’re talking about aren’t they.

        • Goatsplitter

          Speaking for myself, and getting passed the notion i still prefer ranks and flanks, AoS is still a system that could stand for more time in the oven. It still feels under done. I have hopes for its future because I think they will port their best ideas from 40k over, but that hasn’t happened yet.

          • Hagwert

            I think if they had kept the setting but brought in new ways to play the game such as loose order, skirmish and path to glory alongside the ranked rules they could have made the game much easier to enter for a wider audience without losing the established fans.

      • Richard Mitchell

        That is something I saw with AoS locally. It has the same problem as WHFB in that GW’s customer base draws from the same watering hole. Very few new players from outside of GW’s consumer base played and they really got into because of the 7th ed. hot mess. I was saying this before, once 8th drops, so will AoS players. GW really needs to work on changing their gaming culture to reach out to new players rather than continually tapping their existing customer base.

        • GnomesForge

          They could offer free in store cash money loans?

      • GiftoftheMagi

        Agreed. It does seem like in some cases GW learned their mistakes. The constant FAQ prior and after the release. The change in the lore WITHOUT deleting what came before.
        The reason however as to why they are still not on top is there are still mistakes being made. The whole three month rulebook buy-back debacle. Main rules still requiring a purchase. The writing is still pretty bad and heavy handed. Extremely heavy focus on Marines. Primaris Marines are obviously intended to replace your entire Marine army. Poor playtesting methods evident within the first month.

        And yes while the game has always had an Imperium/Chaos focus, this version has somehow managed to make it worse, to the point that any other army seems solely to exist to expand the Imperium story or further their needs. The new Webway/Time Travel bits and sudden new tech advances and massive armies have left a bit of a bitter taste in those that play other armies. It has always been there but now it is worse. And lastly the end of multipart models in favor of clamshell models that somehow cost a LOT more (a whopping 75% increase since the beginning of the year)

        So yeah, there is improvement but there is a still a lot of work to do.

    • CloakingDonkey

      How many years since WHFB was on that list? 10? 15? At least AoS made it on there.

      • marlowc

        Only briefly, and only as a result of a marketing campaign that could have sold sacks of **** to a pig farmer ๐Ÿ™‚

        • EnTyme

          One year outside the top 5 hardly constitutes a reason to panic for GW. This year has been somewhat heavy on the 40k focus, so AoS had to take a back seat. Our community is still growing (while oddly, X-Wing is starting to slow significantly in our area), and I’m sure we aren’t the only ones. Continue to fight the current if you want, marlowc, but AoS is here to stay.

          • marlowc

            These charts are based on spring 2017, before the big release of 40K. I’ll bet a pound to pinch of pig **** that we are now seeing the long, slow death of AoS.

          • EnTyme

            You can believe what you want, but GW’s financials show otherwise.

          • marlowc

            Yes, the latest financial report is good news isn’t it. The company has definitely been reborn now that Kirby has finally gone – hooray!
            Don’t get me wrong, many people seem to enjoy AoS, so all the best to them. I’m hoping that GW is now big enough, and mature enough to support gaming in the Old World alongside the Realms ๐Ÿ™‚

          • GnomesForge

            RIght… its been 30 years. The departure of one man, will mature this company? One that will be now under double pressure from investors to payout? I love Warhammer, but its been 30 years. Sell to Fantasy Flight or Sega, because GW just never gets it right. Even their best is just “not wrong”.

          • marlowc

            GW has been transformed in the time since Kevin Rountree took over. One man really can make a difference it seems ๐Ÿ™‚

          • EnTyme

            I’m honestly hoping for the settings to coexist. It’s not beyond belief, either. The upcoming pen and paper RPGs will be released for both Old World and Mortal Realms. I loved the Old World, and I’m glad I still have Total War: Warhammer to help me explore it, but I see endless potential in the Mortal Realms. Every release fleshes out the lore a little more. The novels I’ve read from the Mortal Realms have been good (especially City of Secrets), and it won’t be long before GW starts licensing the setting for video games and other media.

          • GnomesForge

            AoS is dead. Never see anyone playing it, no developers want to touch the setting with a 10 foot pole and even people who like the rules hate the awful :lore”. Plain and simple, it was created by corporate hacks, not gamers. Why did you ever think it had a long term chance?

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            Why dont you tell us how you really feel!

          • Hagwert

            At the FLGS I go to people like the loose order style of play but hate the fluff so they effectively end up playing AOS in the old world!

          • UnpluggedBeta

            I like that; the models are beautiful. The rules are…. well they’re there, but that fluff is so god awful.

        • CloakingDonkey

          And even that WHFB couldn’t manage. Because it was always a niche game that tried to lure the old guard away from napoleonics and ancients with promise of rank and file battles with orcs and elves oooh how shiny… And toward the end it was an unbalanced, absurdly pricey mess that saw big infantry blocks pretty much exclusively in the factions that happened to have easy-to-build models from some box. I used to love WHFB. More than 40K. And while I still like the fluff, it had become a terrible game bogged down in nonsense.

          AoS isn’t better or worse, it’s different. And in its own right, it’s a fun game if you play Matched Play. Open Play is garbage, grant you, but Open Play is also garbage in 40K in case you haven’t tried that yet. Nothing to do with having 4 or 8 pages of rules, not having points is just a trash idea.

      • GiftoftheMagi

        Once. When it was released. And the idea was the change would put it on the top five list along with 40K. It didn’t. And yet the video game based on the Old World is not only going strong but expanding.

        The point is GW torpedoed a game that while not all that good, had a solid fanbase and a lore which has seen both praise and awards in literature…and they replaced it with a mess. They didn’t have to. They could have easily just fixed the system. But they just HAD to have IPs. And now they have a fantasy game that is still being beaten by other fantasy games, with names people can barely pronounce, a story barely anyone understands and already has a poor reputation due to a year without detailed rules.

        AoS failed in its mission. The fact that ARMADA is beating it tell us by how badly it failed. Meanwhile fantasy games like Warmachine still chug along developing their worlds and games instead of completely re-writing them, with free rules and new factions that compliment each other. AoS has failed to re-ignite that spark, and yes it was failing before and needed a change. This was not the change it needed.

        • CloakingDonkey

          Ok first off a video game is a very poor indicator for anything… Because even if you get all the DLC you’re not even halfway to what a WHFB army would have cost you ๐Ÿ˜› It’s much easier to get into a video game than a tabletop game and there really is nothing like Total Warhammer…

          Armada also beat Warmachine… because it’s a Star Wars game that’s stocked at Walmarts across the globe. Again not really a good indicator of anything.

          And if AoS’ mission was to be more popular than WHFB, it obviously succeeded in that ๐Ÿ˜‰ Now they just need to support it and push the General’s Handbook properly… because there’s still thousands of grumpy neckbeards who don’t know that it has a points system now…

          WHFB’s fluff was tripe. Just like 40K’s and AoS’ fluff… GW fluff is always tripe. But WHFB’s fluff was boring from an outside perspective ever since the LotR movies and the models visually dated with things like Warmachine and Malifaux around. The game was absurdly expensive and imbalanced, convoluted trash. No amount of doctoring would have turned it into something profitable again… It had to go. AoS replaced it and despite the constant moaning, it’s still around and will still be around for a while. Might as well get used to it, or gods forbid, try it… you might realise that it’s actually a pretty solid game now ๐Ÿ˜›

          • GiftoftheMagi

            Interesting points. As for them…

            1.) To purchase all of the current Warhammer: Total War game and DLC, it will cost you roughly $165 USD. Granted, this is a lot cheaper than a typical army in WHFB, it is still a big chunk of change. What the game proves however is how popular both the original game AND the setting is, because they are about to drop Total War TWO. Add in the popularity of Mordheim, Blood Bowl and Vermintide and you have a proven base for WHFB and a marketing device. Which no longer the case unfortunately. The games now only confuse potential new buyers.

            2.) Yes, Armada is stocked in stores other than gaming stores. So is Warhammer. We have them on sale in Toys R Us. This makes Fantasy Flight a hell of a lot smarter than GW about marketing. Sure the franchise name gets them in the door, but X-Wing has been on top the list for a while now which says that the game itself is strong enough to pull in buyers. They target WalMart and Barnes & Noble and any toy store they can find. GW is so protective of their franchise that they hesitate to use other sources. But even that does not explain why they are outselling GW. A couple of cheapie ships here and there is not enough. It’s the game ITSELF that is outselling AoS. It is quite simply better, easier to learn, flexible enough to be fun and doesn’t require a tome the size of a school book. And look that 3rd place. A D&D miniature game is also beating the crap outta AoS, a recent one. Not something you find at WalMart.

            3.) The mission of AoS was NOT to be more popular than WHFB. The mission of AoS was to justify a fantasy line and make it AS PROFITABLE as 40K. For the longest time, GW sat at the top of the heap in miniature gaming, but recent years has changed that. The first year of AoS was not profitable at all, with GW taking a loss likely due to the massive production costs of basically completely relaunching an entire line. This year has seen a rebound, but not a big one. With the success of 40K products late last year and early this year, it’s hard to tell if AoS made any real profits at all. And this list shows they aren’t pulling in the money that even cheap games like Aramda is. And when your entry is STILL hundreds of dollars, that’s not good.

            4.) If you really believe that, you are in the minority. Amazon and Goodreads have VERY good reviews of WHFB books by WIlliam King, Gav Thrope, Mike Lee, Graham McNiell and Nathan Long. In particular the Gotrek & Felix , and the Malus Darkblade books get praise for being good dark fantasy. Like any series there is the occasional crapfest book, but it is the lore itself that has brough people into the game and held on even when the game itself was not very good. The lore itself has sold the video games and novels on the franchise when the models didn’t. ANd while you may dislike the lore of other games, those games still do better than AoS and sell books on them as well.

            5.) And if ‘thousands of grumpy neckbeards’ grumbling about the game is the reason it isn’t doing better, that’s completely GW’s fault. EVERYONE knows it’s had a point system for months now. That doesn’t matter. The story and game ITSELF is crap. If there are thousands of players not getting into the game, it is GW’s job to convince them to try. If they can’t the company is at complete fault because they failed. No one HAS to play the game. They have to WANT to play it. It is the company and ONLY the company’s job to convince them to do so. If they are still grumbling, then GW failed.

            And yeah I tried a few demos of the game where I didn’t have to make a purchase. It’s boring, honestly. It is basically sound but rather flat. It is more of a mob-style attack game without the need of thinking or overall tactics. And the price of the new models is insanely high so…yeah no thanks.

  • MiNi Matt

    you’re in the US though, right? Cause in Europe they’re absurdly expensive… even with a 20% discount you still pay some serious cash on tiny ships.

  • stuff

    How is this measured?

    • marlowc

      From ICv2 website :
      This chart of the Top 5 Non-Collectible Miniature Lines (hobby channel) reflects sales in Spring 2017. The charts are based on interviews with retailers, distributors, and manufacturers.

      • Vachones

        Interviews? So no actual sales data then.

        • marlowc

          I think any serious interview would involve sales data. But few companies would allow the actual figures to be made public?

          • Vachones

            Its probably the only way to collect this information, so I get the limitations. But unless they are asking (and getting) accurate sales data, we should probably take this with a healthy amount of skepticism.

            Personally, I’d be more interested in other questions they could be asking, rather than just a ranking. Which companies are easy/difficult to deal with? Which product lines have the started/discontinued due to interest? What are the differences in players for each system? Regional differences between game systems? The researcher in me has so many more interesting questions.

          • Vicent Martรญn Bonet

            So, no hard data then and just guesses. Hell, literally who is in this ranking’s 3rd place. The fact that GW’s retail chain isn’t included in the interviews (and it’s something known for years) when it represents more than a third of the sales for GW in the states is enough of a warrant to not take this at face value.

            Other companies have issues with the data for ICV2 too, btw.

          • davepak

            Just guesses? Sounds like someone does not like the results and thus wants to knock them down. When interviewed people can give their answer based upon their hard data. of course, they could just guess.
            but to out of hand dismiss anything is quite a weak position.

          • DJ860

            But it’s not based on solid data, so should be treated with a fair amount of skepticism.

            Products that are heavily reliant on 3rd party retailers and distributors will naturally be more heavily represented in this kind of research than those who sell through their own channels or have strong in-house sales.

            It’s not guessing, but it’s drawing firm conclusions from partial data and opinions, not great.

          • marlowc

            True, but bear in mind most people on here are comparing this chart, with last year’s – like with like. So their conclusions are pretty valid?

          • SYSTem050

            There are two types of people on this world those than can draw conclusions from incomplete data and ..

          • DJ860

            People drew conclusions from the information suggesting you could walk in a straight line forever. They thought the world was flat.

          • Admiral Raptor

            Chill out. This data is meant to give independent retailers in the US a better idea of what products are popular throughout the industry. It’s not meant to be a pissing contest between fan boys about who’s got the biggest sales. (Though the coverage this site gives it certainly presents that way.)

  • Sorien

    This is data prior to 8th. We’ll see if that can put 40k in the top spot again.

    The fall of Warmahordes is interesting. I’ve heard from my FLGS’s that sales of tanked, people are trading in stuff basically for the first time ever (evident by the piles of used mini’s they have on sale) and game nights are ghost towns. I guess Mark 3 isn’t going well?

    • Matthew Pomeroy

      that is just warmachine, without hordes in there. The Grymkin just came out so that may help (usually I see warmachine and hordes considered the same game) Here locally warmahordes is only topped by x-wing and GW is only niche in a couple places.

    • GnomesForge

      Nah, people are already tiring of the new codex creep and terrible fluff. This is their decline, may take a bit more time, but 8th cant save Warhammer from the asinine corporate culture worshiped at GW and by their fanboys.

    • UnpluggedBeta

      This is all anecdotal, but we’re seeing a pretty big push for the new journeyman league at my flgs. It got pushed back because of the 8th juggernaught, but Grymkin definitely did a lot to ignite a spark with brand new players.

      I worry that the lack of instructions for some of those infantry kits are going to be hard on new players though.

  • What a load of nonsense, I’m sorry but in the UK games workshop games are far bigger any competition. Does this take into account gw store sales? I doubt it, online sales? Probably not. If this is just based in flgs sales or “feelings” then it’s complete nonsense.

    • Admiral Raptor

      This is strictly a North American list to my knowledge. It also only includes independent retailers (so no GW). That being said even if you took into account the GW stores in NA, I doubt that 40k would equal X-Wing. In the UK I’d be willing to believe that 40k is still king.

    • Hagwert

      GW sells 70 percent of it’s product outside of the UK which is why Brexit has helped them so much due to the lower pound .

    • Matthew Pomeroy

      Keep in mind that the UK is still a much smaller market than the US. There are 258million more people in the US.

  • Richard Mitchell

    DnD, Pathfinder, and Star Wars are great games so they deserve their spots. I am also glad to see Shadowrun in the top 5. Such a great system and IP. Probably the only game where I can run a Troll decker and still have a blast.

    Scythe is also a welcomed edition as a board game staple. Not to surprised about the top 3 CCGs though.

    It is also good to see PP new policies with living FAQ, a digital game approach to analog wargames, and CID managed to keep it in the top 5. Wasn’t surprised to see 40k in the number 2 spot or that AoS dropped from the list entirely. The X-Wing, Armada, and DnD miniature wargaming is a shock only because it is more indicative of a trend. Prepainted minis are a thing, not a fad anymore.

    • Matthew Pomeroy

      the D&D are not prepainted, they are only preprimed, they have only the rpg for a “ruleset” so not sure they really should be on that list. I collect a lot of them and they really are that good in quality for their price.

    • UnpluggedBeta

      If prepainted minis are a thing then AT-43 was a decade too early; it could have been amazing.

      • Matthew Pomeroy

        AT-43 and confrontation (confrontation being a big game for me) were both prepainted and pretty high quality, but confrontation at least really alienated the fans of its previous editions by changing the scale of the game and switching from really great metals to prepainted plastics. (I have and still play every edition of Confrontation, including cadwallon)

  • GnomesForge

    So hows that Realm Gate setting working out? Good?

    I’m sure 8th, following the same trajectory will be nothing but a total revival for 40k. Especially with the fluff being Sigmar quality now.

    • frank

      pretty sure Warhammer fantasy was not in the running for top 5 before Age of Sigmar. same site says that it hasn’t been in the the top 5 since 2014 at least.

      • Hagwert

        To be fair WHFB and the Old World setting was badly mishandled by GW for more than a decade before 2014, the last really good thing they did with it was probably Mordheim way back in 1999 which is 2 years before I was even born ! Luckily for me my dad has been in the hobby since the late 80’s and has half a loft filled with old GW rule sets and fluff .

        • UnpluggedBeta

          Wow, Mordheim was 1999? They really should bring it back like the Necromunda rumblings.

  • Rafaล‚ Pytlak

    Wow, i knew X-Wing was popular…but to beat 40k?
    To be honest here in Poland i’ve seen quite a lot players and a busy scene for it.

    Well, fingers crossed, that next time GW will be on top, after the sales will include 8th edition numbers…

    • Matthew Pomeroy

      keep in mind, its also a star wars product, so people who don’t even play games would be all over these things and they are about on par with nice die cost models. then there are also peeps like me who bought into both games to use the ships in the RPG (and then started playing the mini games anyhow)

      • UnpluggedBeta

        This can’t be understated: xwing sells like gangbusters because it draws in “normies,” who otherwise won’t play games.

        Hopefully, they’ll notice the 40k, Warmachine, Infinity, Dropzone, .etc games and start to wonder, “Maybe I should check out those games they look fun too!”

        History says this will not happen, sadly. Star Wars fandom probably doesn’t have a lot of crossover with tabletop gaming.

  • Looks like Age of Sigmar is off the radar again?

    • frank

      AOS never has been on this sites top 5 list. not a shocker but AOS never has been in the running in the past so doesn’t seem like the game was ever on their radar to begin with.

      • marlowc

        I seem to remember AoS was just behind 40K this time last year. Can’t recall if that was 4th or not.

        • frank

          it was apparently on the list at four last fall. so it did make their last list, which makes me actually wonder what they did last fall that made them stand out when they had not previously done so?

          • marlowc

            I think that was just a natural result of the biggest marketing blitz GW have ever done. As I mentioned somewhere else – it would have sold sacks of **** to pig farmers ๐Ÿ™‚

          • Rafaล‚ Pytlak

            Wasn’t the General Handbook released last year about that time? The book that gave AoS points?

          • marlowc

            It was indeed. You can’t believe that AoS was originally released without points, or any form of army structure at all can you ๐Ÿ™

  • Antonio Morelli

    Warmachine sales are comprensive of Horde ?

    • Admiral Raptor

      I’m also curious abut this. They used to count Warmachine and Hordes separately in previous years, so it could be that Hordes just didn’t make the list.

  • thereturnofsuppuppers

    I’ve never heard of the Nolzurs DnD minis. Are they any good?

    • Matthew Pomeroy

      if you are a D&D player (especially 5th due to their look) then yes these things are amazing. They are preprimmed with vallejo primer and have incredible level of detail, they look just like the monster manual picture and the price is almost the same as bones 3.99 for a pack regardless of if its 1 big troll, 3 goblins, or 2 pc types.

      • UnpluggedBeta

        I’m amazed that they rank so high on that list; maybe they’re collectible as well?

        • Matthew Pomeroy

          not collectable, just really super great for the really low price. It will keep getting bigger as they expand it to fill out both the monster manual and players character options

  • Stonewall

    I wonder where Malifaux is on this list. Need to pump these numbers up.

  • Jonathan Dodd

    Patchwork doesn’t have cards or dice…