Stupid 40K Tricks: The Armylist With Unlimited Models

The ultimate horde has no limit.

Horde armies are all the rage these days. But despite their popularity they all have one glaring weakness: when you kill them they die. But what if this wasn’t the case? What if killing your army only made it stronger? What if you could send an endless horde of replenishing troops to crush your enemies? That is just what my latest stupid army, The Endless Horde, does. With a “technically” unlimited model count it can steam roll over any forces with ease. Lets take a look at the list and why it works.

The List

The Endless Horde

Alpha Legion – Brigade Detachment 

Chaos Sorcerer w.  Force Sword 102

Warpsmith- 76

Warpsmith- 76

 

10x Chaos Cultist- 40

10x Chaos Cultist- 40

10x Chaos Cultist- 40

10x Chaos Cultist- 40

37x Chaos Cultist- 148

40x Chaos Cultist- 160

Chaos Spawn – 33

Chaos Spawn – 33

Chaos Spawn – 33

 

5x Noise Marines -75

5x Noise Marines -75

5x Noise Marines -75

Chaos Predator w.  Predator Autocannon 2x Heavy bolters -159

Chaos Predator w.  Predator Autocannon  -139

Chaos Predator w.  Predator Autocannon  -139

Death Guard – Battalion Detachment 

Typhus – 175- Warlord

Chaos Lord -74

Tallyman – 67

20 x Poxwalkers -120

10x Chaos Cultist – 40

10x Chaos Cultist – 40

Pts 1999 15 CP 

 

At first glance this may seem like a standard horde army. Lots of models, lots of CP and a few killy tanks. But most of the army doesn’t seem to do all that much. Well lets take a look at the “stupid trick” behind this list.

Endless Poxwalkers

The key to the entire list is the one unit of Poxwalkers. When deploying you’re going to want to want to set a massed blob of all the cultist together and place the Poxwalkers in the very middle of the whole force. Spread them throughout the force.  Then, at the start of each of your movement phases, you are going to use the Stratagem The Dead Walk Again.

The goal here is to allow the enemy to shoot up your cultist all they want, but for each cultist that dies, you gain a Poxwalker.  “But Abe,” you say, “won’t the enemy just shoot my Poxwalkers first?” Well that’s were another stratagem, Cloud of Flies comes into play.

Since your Poxwalkers are going to be buried in the midst of your cultists it should now be impossible to shoot them. This will force your enemies to target the Cultists (with a -1 to hit for the Alpha Legions ones) thus adding to your Poxwalkers. Their other option is to ignore the blob of nearly 200 models moving up on them. Moreover, with Tallyman you’ve got a chance of recouping the CP you spend on these stratagems.

Here’s the real kicker: should one of your large units of cultists get beat up you can always use Tide of Traitors to bring it back to full size which also gives you more potential Poxwalkers. With nearly limitless numbers of Cultist (and don’t forger your enemy’s Infantry are all able to be added to your Poxwalkers) your lone unit of Poxwalkers can get truly massive.

But Poxwalkers Suck…Right?

Ok, so you’ve got a free massive unit of Poxwalkers, but what are you going to do with it? 2, S3 attacks that hit on a 5+ isn’t really that scary, even if you have a million of them. Well, that’s where the rest of your army comes in. First off Typhus, just by being nearby, makes them S4 and T4.  In addition, as long as there are more than 10 of them, which yeah there will be, they hit on 4+. So, that’s already better.

Next, you have Typhus cast Putrescent Vitality on them. Suddenly they are S5 and T5, numberless and disgustingly resilient. Then, depending the situation, you can either put Miasma of Pestilence on them (making them harder to hit) or (if they are fighting a super tough target) cast Blades of Putrefaction on them for +1 to Wound. And don’t skip out on Veterans of the Long War:

Yeah, that’s another +1 to wound. Meaning you could wound up to T9 on a +3. Then, if you have a Chaos Sorcerer with you, toss put Prescience on them to give them a +1 to hit rolls. And if you’re in the casting mood, how about Warptime for some extra movement. Remember, Tallyman lets your re-roll misses in the fight phase. Suddenly you numberless horde is S5 and T5, with a -1 to hit them, hitting enemies on a 3+ with re-rolls and getting a +2 on the to wound roll. That’s nothing to sneeze at…

The Rest of the List

While the Poxwalker combo is clearly the main killing force of the list there are a few other tools in it. In particular, the 3 Predators provide some needed long range support and anti-tank power. Don’t forget about Killshot as it can really let them bring the pain out there. You’ve also got a bits of chaff to run around and tie stuff up or hide on objectives. And hey –  a couple hundred shots from cultist are bound to kill something!

Weaknesses

The biggest weakness the list has is that it really needs to go first. The chance of the Poxwalkers getting killed before you can use your stratagems is a big risk. Preferably, you’d like to try to deploy your Poxwalkers out of sight on turn one to mitigate the risk. It’s also not the fastest army.

Still, the list works best if you take a few turns so the enemy can help to build up the Poxwalkers. Enemy psychic defense can also also be annoying, but most likely won’t cripple you. It’s also a list that is going to use a lot of CP to keep the good stratagems going. However, with 15 starting CPs and a chance to not spend some, I think it should have enough to get through the crucial turns.

Final Thoughts

I know playing around with the list will lead to some more optimization. The Predators could be swapped to take cheap Havocs and get more Cultists. Maybe you could move the battalion to Death Guard and save some points taking elite heroes instead of the Noise Marines. I’m also tempted to try to fit Abbadon in there for extra CP and making the Cultists Fearless.

Overall, I’d love to try to army out. While it may not be “the best list ever made” the idea of being able to build a massive 100+ man unit of super Poxwalkers that can’t be shot is pretty silly. The idea that  “your guys get shot your army gets stronger” can really throw your enemy for a loop. Truly, it is a horde with endless possibilities.

 

That’s all for today folks. Let us know what you think about this stupid 40K trick and how you’d fight it down in the comments. 

Note: Remember, you’re “adding a new model to the unit” – that is not the same as replacing dead models or creating a new unit. It takes no reserve points and there is no rule about the Poxwalkers units going above the unit’s starting number. If you can find that rule, please drop the page number in the comments below!
  • BaronVonYoloing

    Slight issue but I thought if you went above the starting numbers of models in a unit you have to have reinforcement points to spend to do so? Or are Poxwalkers exempt from this? I know it’s stopped me from running a Tervigon and Termagant list because you can literally top up slain models only.

    • John Edwards

      Reinforcements is when u adding a whole new unit and pox walkers is adding a model to their existing unit and doesn’t top at 20 you can possibly get up to 30 pox walkers

      • SacTownBrian

        Warscroll shows max unit size of 20.

        • Muninwing

          to start. not a hard cap forever…

          is there a rule anywhere that states that max unit size is a hard cap? if you cannot find one, then there isn’t one.

          and, if you see a defined hard cap in another datasheet/warscroll specifically mentioned, it probably means that there needs to be a mention in the datasheet/warscroll for there to be one for everyone else, since there’s probably not another rule elsewhere..

          • Jason Tron

            Flip that around, is there are rule that says you can go over the Max unit size? There are those words, max unit size.

          • Xodis

            Flip it around again…
            Is there a rule that a unit cannot go under the minimum size? If so, we make all units on the table immortal.
            Bottom line is those limits are generally only used for list building, so to stretch their definition as a limitation once the game begins seems like cherry picking.

          • Munn

            You keep saying this but the min unit size is 0 dude. Ever units min unit size is 0; just don’t take it. If every unit’s min unit size was 1+ that’d be a lot of random crap you’d have to buy.

          • Xodis

            Again, Having the option to include a unit, is different than having a forced minimum on that unit you chose to take. 2 completely different things you are conflating.

          • Apocryphus

            Hm, my book says Poxwalker min size is 10, not 0. Arguing the semantics of what “maximum” actually means and whether or not you can add more models, which implies increasing the defined maximum, is just rules lawyering at this point. There are other rules written that add models that specifically call out that the unit can not go above the original size. Poxwalkers having this clause left out across 2 printings of the unit’s rules seems clearly intentional.

          • Muninwing

            “those words” are clear in what function they serve.

            they are the maximum number of models you can have in a unit when you are building your list.

            one function.

            no other indication that they matter, except when explicitly stated.

          • SacTownBrian

            RAW vs RAI make for the worst arguments. I think Gw has proven that Stupid will receive the FAQ bat. Max size is 20, just like a Tac squad is 10.

          • Muninwing

            but this is not RAW vs RAI. unless someone forgot to include part of the rule, in which case it’s a big glaring editing error.

            it is clear from the tervigon that (+cap) is an option that needs to be explicitly ruled out.

            poxwalkers do not have the same limiting language.

            there are no indications in the core rules that a unit can be added to. thus, it defaults to functioning exactly how individual units and powers function. if there is no indicator that the unit cap means anything there either, and no indication that (+cap) is explicitly against a rule, and no indication that the cap is used anywhere but where it is — which is in list creation — then it’s individual extrapolation, not based on the rules.

            and it doesn’t even imply that it’s a rule. nor is there a reason why it should hard-cap there… like a SM squad that is organized into 10-man units… are plague zombies suddenly obsessed with units of 20?

            there is exactly zero reasons in the fluff or the rules, for poxwalker units to be restricted from >20 units. and i’m not looking for a WAAC RAW argument here — it’s just not a part of the rules.

          • SacTownBrian

            Should I assume that English is not your first language?

            From the poxwalker Warscroll: “This unit contains 10 Poxwalkers. It can include 10 additional Poxwalkers (Power Rating +3).”

          • Frostasche

            And if you say this is only ment for army building, remember this is also the relevant part for characters, monsters and vehicles. This part of the warscroll states that most characters are 1 model units and for unique characters that there is only one per army. So do you also believe this limits are not relevant for reinforcements? And if they are relevant, how do you decide for which unit it is and for which unit not. As long as there is no faq stating otherwise I treat all unit limits equal and so not raising any unit above its maximum allowed number. I think this rule must be explicitly overruled.

          • Muninwing

            this is irrelevant too.

            if the warscroll states that it is explicitly a one-model unit, then it has been stated that it cannot be raised above one.

            which does not appear in the poxwalker entry.

            what’s more, if you can show me a power that can affect other units that increases their unit size, we can talk about universality. but that’s now USRs worked, and GW has moved away from that (better, imo) model in favor of this.

            there just isn’t any rule that backs up a cap. if there was, it would be in the main rules —
            which it is not — or on the warscroll that detailed the power. if it is not on either, you’re just making an unsupportable assumption.

          • Frostasche

            Why is it irrelevant? Who said it is?

            Maybe explanation of my thoughts may help understand my position.

            I saw the rule, SacTowBrian quoted, and this is obviously a cap. So there is a rule that backs up a cap.

            Is there anything written, that says if it is ment only for deployment or also for reinforcement?
            No

            Is the intention of the rule for poxwalkers clear?
            No

            Are there any other models with similar rules, where the intention is clear?
            Yes for example Guilliman or unit sergeants. Even with reinforcement you should not be able to have more then one sergeant in a unit. So for this cases it seems to be intendet for deployment and reinforcements.

            Is there anything suggesting in the rules, that poxwalkers maximum model size is treated differently from this models?
            No

            Is there anything suggesting that “normal” models have different rules?
            No, but maybe i have missed something.

            Without any faq we are both making assumptions, but you say as long as there is no rule that explicitly says that rule x works for all models always, it is not true for all units.
            I say such a rule is nothing i would expect. As long as i don’t have a rule that explicitly states that model a is an exception of rule x, i would say rule x is relevant.

            So in my opinion you must show me a rule that says for example character unit limits are treated differently to non character unit limits. As long as this rule is not existend i treat them the same way, and you can say what you want the RAI for characters is quite clear, for units not so clear, i agree.

          • Muninwing

            let’s go see what the core rules say about that “cap”

            on the diagram on p. 175, it has a “5” next to the “Unit Composition”

            the 5 has this to say about the data:
            “5. Unit Composition
            This tells you what models are in the unit”

            are in the unit.
            not can be.
            not maximum, or minimum.
            are.

            and we know that this “are” can change. casualties change this. so if a unit can be below starting strength by an external rule acting upon it (here, it is “If a model’s wounds are reduced to 0, it is either slain
            or destroyed and removed from
            play.” in the shooting section, for instance), then we have a precedent.

            unit can change size.

            the word “cap” is used by us to describe what it does when we make lists. it does not appear anywhere in the actual rules.it is clearly not a hard limit, because there are rules for fielding a unit below minimum strength — “Sometimes you may find that you do not have enough models to field a minimum-sized unit (this can be found on each unit’s datasheet); if this is the case, you can still include one unit of that type in your army with as many models as you have available.”

            so we have (1) the cap is not a cap nor does it actually say “cap” or “limit” anywhere in the actual rules (2) its explanation is that it is a descriptor of what models are in a unit — single model, or more than one (3) “single” and “not single” are exclusive, meaning that the theoretical-but-doesn’t-exist power that could add models to a single model unit is a separate problem (and one that GW will theoretically never write a rule to create) (4) unit size is malleable downward due to a specific rule quoted above that explains how models are removed (5) in all other examples of actual rules that add more models, it is explicit about how many may be added, whereas this is not (6) THEREFORE if another rule tells you how to add models, it is not breaking any pre-established rules.

            so just follow the rules.

            it’s the new mode. i actually think it’s slightly foolish, but i’m going along to get along. we have 40k’s “four pages of rules” and the datasheets that give us everything else. if it’s not covered in the core rules, then you play it as written on the datasheet, and that’s by intent.

            thus, it becomes GW’s burden to put the specific language in each datasheet instead of centralized in the rules. this is supposed to somehow be less complicated, but the lack of standardization actually makes it more complicated.

            it’s actually what happens too when yo go less comprehensive with the rules. we are used to GW being prohibitive by nature with their rulesets — you can only do these specific things with the models in these specific phases. instead, we see that there are fewer explicit guidelines where we are used to more, and assume what is meant. in reality, if it’s not in the rules it’s just not in the rules, no matter what might be implied by past editions.

          • Muninwing

            should i assume that “condescending” is your first language?

            maybe not, because you’d be better at it.

            “it can include” — yes. when you make your list, you may add that many.
            – it says nothing about other effects.
            – it does not say that it can never include more than that many
            – it is a standardized entry format, which every other unit uses
            – again, the Tervigon specified that a different unit — with the same standardized wording in its warscroll entry — could not go over, but this does not

            using your argument, we could assume that this unit can never be beaten. it says “this unit contains” — meaning that it cannot contain less, even if models are killed.

            you are citing starting conditions. if there is a rule that changes starting conditions — like removing models as casualties, or adding them due to a special rule, that takes effect after those starting conditions have been met, and said starting conditions are irrelevant.

            this is reverse rules lawyering. you’re misrepresenting the rule because you are conceptualizing it wrong, and so you are adding significance and language where there is none.

          • NagaBaboon

            There’s no reason in the fluff that a termagent unit shouldn’t be able to go over 30 either, they can’t because that would be a stupid rule. I suspect they intended pox walkers to be allowed to go over their maximum limit, I see no reasoon why they wouldn’t, but if people actually start abusing the rule with lists like this then chances are it’ll get FAQd

          • Does not the phrase, “Max unit size” itself imply that you cant take any more dudes ?

          • Muninwing

            no. it implies that you cannot take more dudes when you are building your list.

            other effects in game can change that.

            not sure why that’s so complicated.

          • Its not:

            maximum
            ˈmaksɪməm/Submit
            adjective
            1.
            as great, high, or intense as possible or permitted.

          • Muninwing

            yes. permitted.

            at list creation.

            we’ve been over that.

          • Muninwing

            also, the word “maximum” is never used in the entry, or in the core rules.

            that is how we phrase it, because during list creation that is a pragmatic way of looking at it.

            all the core rules state is “Unit Composition:
            This tells you what models are in the unit.”

            the datasheet states that “This unit contains 10 Poxwalkers. It can include 10 additional Poxwalkers (Power Rating +3).”

            but we know that’s not a fixed number, since it might very well contain 7 poxwalkers after one round of shooting. so, if a rule (the shooting section, the wound allocation section, and the way this forces model removal) can change the number of models, then a different rule can change the number of models as well.

            up or down is determined by the other rule, since it’s not part of the core rules either.

        • MeAnd SomeRandoms

          GW is known for not precisely describing everything they do. This leaves room for interpretation. If you play with a friend you have and one says the max units cap if for list building and the other says it is for the entire game there is only one way to solve this: Roll a D6, 1-3 is interpretation 1, 4-6 is interpretation 2. You can do this before every game. Problem solved ! At an tournament environment it is up to the tournament organization to decide such a debate. Again your opinion or interpretation does not matter and the outcome can vary. Deal with whatever id decided by the gods or admins and play accordingly but most important: HAVE FUN !

    • Heinz Fiction

      You’ll only have to pay reinforcement points if a new unit is created. The Tervigon can either create a new unit or replace lost models. The Stratagem however has no such restriction as you only “add models”.

      • MarcoT

        The tervigon only adds up to the starting number though, making its case different enough imo. The termagaunts are still starting models, whereas the Poxwalkers are new.

        • LankTank

          Yes but if you had to pay for it, it would be stated. I.e new termagants, spawn or summoning daemons.

    • Jose Delgado

      Yes tose guy havent idea. It is as u says. They have to pay for models above the starting number.

      There are many faqs tha say it

      • Stephen Henry IV

        No there isn’t, the FAQ is for adding new units to the game not adding models to an already existing unit.

      • Huntard

        Those FAQs and rulings are for Age of Sigmar, not 40k.

  • MarcoT

    Nasty. Really nasty.

  • Leonidas Laskaridis

    I don’t understand to whom lists like this one are addressed. It is mind-numbingly boring, completely unfluffy and simply effective only at driving people AWAY from the hobby. I don’t care if it wins games; it loses in every other department.

    I wonder why I even take time to read these crap and then take time to reply…

    • Heinz Fiction

      Why unfluffy? I think it’s a great list for narrative play: fight the zombie aPOXcalypse!

      • Rainthezangoose

        Its incredibly unfluffy because it’s strength lies in its abuse of the rules. In reality you wouldn’t just be able to focus all your strategy on one unit and make it magically “untargetable”

        • Heinz Fiction

          Unless you’re actually able to use magic to make units untargetable…

          • NagaBaboon

            ‘Magic’ in the 40K realm can be stopped by other people with ‘magic’, Strategems cannot.

        • J Mad

          It not abuse, its clear that its a type of build you can do….. and you can still target those unit easily….. Heck Harlequins will walk all over this list, anyone with Skimmers/fliers can just fly over the cultist. Unless they completely wrap the Pox (they can) you can always still focus the OTHER units on the other side that he didnt 1CP buff them.

          • Heinz Fiction

            To be honest, a list with ~180 Models fills a 6×4 board quite well. I doubt their will be enough space to fly over units…

          • J Mad

            As someone that has fielded this many models, you can for sure block units, its just another weakness to the army tho, one that the opponent needs to be worried about, positioning is key in this army, you can uses fliers to stop movements as well. Force them out of position and it falls apart.

        • KingAceNumber1

          It’s not abusing anything. Using two strategems that are pretty clearly worded and simple to understand is about as far from abuse as you can get. Just because you don”t care for it personally doesn’t mean It’s unfluffu or abusive, nor is the list particularly good. Orks, Harlies, Guard… there’s a lot of matchup this doesn’t want to see. It’s a neat synergy but it auto loses if it doesn’t go first and the whole list is based upon a single gimmick that’s pretty unreliable.

        • David

          Please explain how magic fits in to reality-it doesn’t that’s because we are dealing with a game. If the game rules say you can then you can

        • David

          If you replace it’s strength lies in abuse of the rules with its strength lies in using the rules as intended your premise would be more accurate and it would explain your wrongoing conclusion

          • Crevab

            A lot of folks like 40k as a game where you line up your dudes to fight, and the tougher man wins. GW’s has been adding more and more combos over the years, and some folks just don’t seem to like it.

            Timmy vs. Spike in Magic terms, I guess

          • J Mad

            Yeah this is basically it, these are the players that say per GK/Necrons 5th was the greatest game ever.. i honestly thought it was very boring.

          • Steven Hyche

            You are basing intent of the designers off yoir opinion and not reality. Nothing is being twisted to make this trick work. Its just straight from the book with a specific stratagem that does this. If it wasnt intended they wouldnt have added the stratagem.

            Plus its not half as good as you probably think it is.

          • marxlives

            The list REALLY needs to go first seems to be the dominate strategy in 8th. A lot of other games have combos without a huge first turn advantage. In fact you have to be sure you don’t go to far upfield as the first turn player as it might be more risk than reward, but it does allow you to position into specific terrain types or battlefield positions before you opponent can respond. Games get intense between 2 and 3rd round. Finish on 3rd or 4th based on player competency.

            The problem is not the list itself (which is fluffy as hell) or that the list is “boring” because it is actually a good list (which are subjective feelings anyway) but the huge importance of 1st turn advantage with all of the other issues underlying the core mechanics. This list looks like a lot of fun but the trend of lists that rely on 1st turn advantage because it is so huge is not the fault of the players. They are just adjusting to the core issues with 8th. Hopefully in 2 years they will release 9th and fix these issues. Because with people literally bowing out of tourneys due to them not getting first turn advantage, I can’t imagine this version going longer than 2 years and not hurting the community.

        • Its fluffy. 40k has moved into being a magic the gathering style combo game like every other game on the marketplace today.

          That may not sit well with you and I certainly understand the premise but it stopped being a wargame many years ago and turned into what it is now to cater to the current crop of gamers. Combo-driven games are king currently.

          • Muninwing

            i stopped playing M:tG for this very reason. and it’s one of the things that made me not really like PP’s games (well, that and the same SC dependence that we now see in GW stuff).

            it’s really sad that GW has decided to become more generic instead of making their differences work for them.

            if they had focused on creating a quality product, instead of the years of decline, they should have shaped the market. now, instead, they feel like they need to mimic what other companies have spent more time doing better than they do.

            but even more sadly, it seems to be working.

          • I sympathize and largely agree. In many conversations dealing with this topic however, I find myself greatly outnumbered and a lot of people claim to love the Privateer Press / Fantasy Flight Games direction of combo-based GAMEY GAMES rather than a classic wargame which deals more with maneuver.

            I don’t have an answer or solution. At this point I have had to surrender to what I can play with other people. I have begun doing more solo gaming to appease the majority part of me that still wants maneuver and class elements that simulate war more than gamey games which are about list building and putting together killer combos.

            I know that when GW was in class wargame mode, people were dissatisfied, and when the combo games showed up, a lot of people swarmed those and wanted more like those. This is to me GW doing market research and responding accordingly to what the bulk of the gaming community wants.

          • Muninwing

            you’re not wrong… but it’s also frustrating that GW decided to listen to one part of the market instead of another.

            it’s like… either you can be a lawyer or a doctor. each take up too much time and cognitive ability for you to multitask. GW games were a lawyer. PP’s a doctor.

            GW saw that people needed doctors, and were unhappy with lawyers that kept losing cases through avoidable blunders. so they decided to reopen their business as a doctor’s office rather than figure out how to win cases.

            points balancing the games, regular FAQing, cutting bloat, and paying attention to how organized play works from the ground up would have easily established them as the master of their field. instead, they’ve chosen time and again to fight battles on other people’s home turf.

          • Maybe! I wasn’t part of their marketing meetings. However, as a games developer myself I will say that even with a solid rules set that classic wargames simply wouldn’t sell as well as combo based gamey games. I think that is what their marketing team saw as well.

            To maximize profit, you have to go for where the bulk of the community is. Simpler games, easier games, combo games with obvious over powered exploits. This is what will make a lot of money.

            For better or worse.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            I guess this is why I have bowed out of 8th. Still playing the odd game of 7th, and various historicals.

          • Thats true with a lot of people. I myself am on the fence. I prefer 8th over 7th just because 7th was the edition of free everything to everyone and all of the formations.

            However, I want a wargame. Unfortunately most in my playgroup love the combo chaining MtG style play. So my choice is playing with myself… which solo play is something I’ve been exploring more of, or trying to adapt.

            Its not been easy but I’m an old guy now and my era has passed away many years ago.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            Do any of those guys play 30k? I’ve been encouraging people to start that at my club, beginning with small Zone Mortais games. It still uses the 7th rules but no formation issues. Been stripping and repainting ancient rhinos for a new luce in 30k 🙂

          • There is a small group that plays 30k in my community but they are largely garage-hammer guys and play in private.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            you’ll have to start a recruitment drive! Or ask to join the garage guys…

          • marxlives

            That is true, GW games played more like historicals….and when you look at the popularity of historicals…

          • Exactly correct.

        • FCBullsht

          “fluff” has nothing to do with how weak or strong a list is…

          • Muninwing

            qualifying point: if you are in a tournament with comp scores (yes, they still occasionally exist), this would be a bigger concern for overall score.

        • LankTank

          Its not really abuse. You are relying on constant use of stratagems unlike say assassin spam or conscript hordes. The units can be annihilated. I mean it really looks to be about 3CP min each turn before even worrying about positioning your whole army to maximise the effect

      • J Mad

        It is actually a very nice Themed list, i’d love to see more like this.

        • marxlives

          True, the list looks like ideal Nurgle to me.

      • Muninwing

        this is fun… once or twice. it could get boring fast.

      • Muninwing

        but it is super-fluffy. there have been a few chaos plagues that have done damage to the imperium. and the unfluffy part — the AL contingent — could be replaced with more poxy zombies.

      • Arthfael

        Zombies/cultists in orderly formation, with an ablative layer of cultists around Poxwalkers? That’s not very fluffy, no.

        • Xodis

          Zombies in an orderly formation as per normal Zombies would be non-fluffy. Zombies in the context of 40K being controlled by a specific God or minions for his Generals is absolutely fluffy.

      • NagaBaboon

        It’s unfluffy becasue of it’s reliance on the strategems which break it. A horde of pox walkers threatening to turn your own people against you? Fluffy and super awesome. A little blob of pox walkers being guarded by cultists and having all of your CP spent on them to overbuff them to be super powerful? Not in the least bit fluffy.

    • Diablix

      While I wouldn’t like to play it or against it you can’t say it’s not fluffy. It IS totally fluffy, especially if you remove the noise marines and replace them with obliterators which are even stronger

      That said, it doesn’t seem that strong to me. In addition to all weaknesses highlighted in the article, after a couple of turn you’re out of CP. The army is pretty slow and CC oriented and can be outmanouvered. It’s probably very strong in relic and “bases” missions, but doesn’t scare me that much on all the other ones. Also consider that after 2, at most 3 turns, you have ended your tricks and you will start to die very very fast. And there are many chances that you won’t have done much damage to the opponent after 2 turns, since hw’s likely much faster than you

      • Heinz Fiction

        also a huge spread out unit has some major disadvantages, as it isn’t able to concentrate force effectivley. If you get attacked on one end of the board 80 of you 100 pox walkers can’t do anything but moving 3″ towards to closest enemy…

      • Two CP a turn, with a starting value of 15 CP that gives you 7.5 turns of the essential CP’s so they aren’t running out.

        Add in that a Tallyman gets to roll 2D6 each time you spend a CP, if you roll equals 7 you get the CP spent back.

        This army might run out of command points, but no where near as quickly as you think, especially as Veterans of the Long war isnt required until they are in combat (although that one is technically 2 CP per game turn).

        Its relatively fluffy, and would be overall much better if he hadnt included Noise Marines and Warpsmiths (the only two non DG units in the list), allowing him to take a full Brigade of Deathguard – this is the bit that moves this list into stupid world. Had he just not taken anything other than Deathguard, you could argue its fluffy, although abusing certain stratagems.

        • John Henry III

          He took the non DG units so he could make the majority of his cultists Alpha Legion. So the enemy is at a -1 to hit them.

      • Watcherzero

        While it would be great at a straight up fight (albeit enemy could kite it falling back alternate units and shooting) it would have to spread out to take objectives and the spread out units would be out of buffing range and so picked off safely.

      • Fergie0044

        Endless poxwalkers are fluffy, but over-buffed poxwalkers doesn’t sit well with me. Make this an all DG list with just Typhus, the tallyman and nurgle powers buffing them.
        Poxwalkers have no business benefiting from ‘veterans of the long war’ – I mean the clue is in the name of the strat!

      • Muninwing

        nah, playing against this list isn’t terrible. it needs a couple smacks and it goes away hard. and you can make zombie jokes the whole time.

        it would be far more fun as a narrative game list, or built into a narrative mission. then again, i’d rather just play against someone’s endless horde of Death Guard and nix the slight cheez of the AL detachment. i’d love to see a Guard army fighting a zombie plague.

        it’d be even better if the zombies got +1 model on a 6 when defeating a model in cc. the zombie horde hits conscripts and eats them, making more zombies, forcing various avoidance tactics to keep soldiers alive…

        but again… that’s all narrative fun. not the obvious attempt at a new cheez tourney list.

        • Diablix

          The problem with playing against this list is that it is insanely slow…

          • Muninwing

            this is true.

            well, if we really want this to be fun… i would maybe play my Deathwing, or my Armored Company. armored survival, wading into the bodies…

            but i could go get food, and chill out while my opponent moved their 200 models less than a foot.

          • Xodis

            Shouldnt have thrown out the troop trays with WHFB lol

    • It excites tournament minmax players. It drives away casual players and narrative players. People don’t usually care if they are driving away others that they’d never play anyway.

      • Chris Hilliard

        One flyer makes the Poxwalkers useless. I know more narrative players who’d want to fight the zombie horde than I do tournament players who wouldn’t strafe cc units that can’t fight back.

    • Bob

      You’re fussy you need a cookie

    • Xodis

      This is obviously a “for fun” list since this has so many hard counters that would obliterate it. If overused I can definitly see it getting boring for both players, but unfluffy? This is one of the fluffiest lists we have seen on BoLS.

    • DoctorBored

      It’s aimed at super competitive players that will get a bag of armymen to use as cultists and poxwalkers so that they can be annoying for a game or two. Or at the players that will take this to a tournament to try to abuse the rules to the max. It’s not meant for the casual gamer and I doubt it will drive anyone from the hobby. Just because the list exists doesn’t mean a lot of people will build and play it.

      • Muninwing

        i’d say otherwise — i think this list is two steps short of being a remarkably fluffy list that exists for a niche/themed reason.

        make all detachments Death Guard or generic CSM, and this suddenly becomes less cheez and more “recreating the X plague from Y” rooted in the fluff

    • Douglas Nelson

      I want to play it for the entertainment value. I’ve been thinking it would be a nice list against Orks, just a ridiculous grind. Or if it scales up to Apocalypse style, face off against Grey Knights, Space Wolves, Astra Militarium and Tau.

      Is it a stupid list. Possibly. The image of any army fighting down zombies though would make for a fun game night with friends. If you’re into zombies.

  • DJ860

    A new way to play, spam on top of spam.

    • J Mad

      Wait… your saying a game based on armies taking large amount of troops and uniformed units is consider spamming? I consider it fluffy and fun, also its cool to see on the table.

      I mean its a THEMED list….. ffs.

    • Fergie0044

      Eh, poxwalkers and cultists being spammed fits the fluff. Maybe toss in some plaguebearers for flavour?

      • Muninwing

        i do not want to imagine what flavor…

    • Troop choices SHOULD be spammed. They are supposed to be the most common elements of an army.

      • Muninwing

        yeah — i’m ok with fielding maxxed troops. it’s just a little odd that there are additional troops from another subfaction here. but troops still, so it’s at least semi-fluffy.

  • FCBullsht

    The concept is nice but the list is rather suboptimal:

    – The 40-man cultist units are quite useless as most of them will die to moral (and therefore dont create poxwalkers)… focus on 10-man units instead.

    – CSM/Alpha Legion is too expensive to fill brigades… Renegades and Heretics would be MUCH better for this.

    – The Predators are a very poor choice in this list: being the only high toughness multiwound models the enemy will consequently focus all his AT weapons at them and as soon as the first one is gone you cannot use the stratagem anymore… better use strong characters like Daemon Princes to add some punch

    – Why the hell no Necrosius to further buff the Poxwalkers?! He is so much better than a captain (especially if you already get the aura from a DP)!

  • bob_sprocket

    What about Necrosius for 4+ DR on the poxies

  • Fergie0044

    Poxwalkers have a max unit size of 20. Since the strat doesn’t say it can take the squad over this I would argue that it can never be more than 20. i.e. we have a clear ruling on the maximum squad size (from the datasheet) and no clear ruling that this ability can over-ride it.

    There is precedent that this must be stated – when we have abilities that allow models to re-gain wounds they sometimes say that they can be used to take it above its starting wounds. By that logic if this strat was intended to take the squad size over 20 it would say so.

    • Heinz Fiction

      I disagree.
      1) datasheets don’t specify max unit sizes at all. They only specify how many models are in a unit at the start of the game at a given power level.
      2) point value lists do contain min and max unit sizes but rules no where state that they are relevant for anything other than list building. We all now that a unit can drop below it’s minimun size during the game, so I don’t see a reason why it shouldn’t go over it’s maximum size.
      3) common logic dictates, that if the stratagem in question was supposed to have limitations it would say so.

      • Muninwing

        #3 is actually less “common logic” and more “the new game design”

        if it has limitations, it is spelled out in the rules somewhere.

        if you are told you can do A, and not B, then you are limited. If you are told you can do A, but there is no mention of the limiter of B, then B is irrelevant.

        other unit that cannot go above starting sizes are indicated. if this is not, then there is no limit. specifically, by design.

      • Fergie0044

        “I don’t see a reason why it shouldn’t go over it’s maximum size”

        Are you familiar with the definition of maximum?

        • Xodis

          Youre taking his point out context when he already rationalized “why” he saw no reason a unit cannot go above the maximum.
          As he stated there is also a minimum size for a unit….but once the actual game begins, that limit is void.

          • Heinz Fiction

            Thanks for saving me the time to reply. I always wonder if people are bringing up such arguments just to provoke or if they really don’t comprehend what they just read…

          • Munn

            Minimum size is 0, or do you think we’re all suddenly 40k Noah, ‘You must take 1 of everything in the faction!’

          • Xodis

            You are confusing the option of bringing the unit with minimum squad size which is actually a thing. Its disingenuous at best.

          • Heinz Fiction

            Usually unit size reads something like 3-5 or 5-10. In case of single models it’s 1. It’s obviously never 0.

            This is the range of starting sizes a unit is allowed to have. Of course it’s actual size can differ from that value due to actions taking place during the game. I most cases it will go down eventually reaching 0 which means the unit gets removed from play. In some cases it will go up due to powers and abilities. I don’t see why starting size should matter in any of these cases.

          • Fergie0044

            I’m not trying to be difficult, I genuinely see it as being against the rules to increase the squad over its maximum in this way.

          • Xodis

            I get it, and Im not trying to say you are wrong, only that your last paraphrase was unfair IMO.
            On the topic at hand though, your stance makes perfect sense if you think the maximum model limit is there for a limiting factor during the game. My personal stance is that its only there for the set up phase and to balance that aspect out (so we dont get things like 500 zombies in a single units or some such nonsense) and the limiting factor for “in game” squad limits is the fact that literally 99% of the rest of the game cant add to their unit mid game. Its why I think this will be allowed because its really not THAT unbalancing, its pretty fluffy, and its so unique as to add extra value to an otherwise cheap throw away unit.

  • David

    If the unit is spread out its difficult to bubble wrap while if it’s tight it’s difficult to control all the objectives. Especially as you are limited to one unit of poxwalkers.

    The list is in keeping with chaos fluff and not that strong

  • Drpx

    “Really needs to go first.”

    Who doesn’t?

    • Muninwing

      my Deathwing… at least in older editions.

      i loved deploying in hard cover with no lone of sight. they were a small enough count army that i could often deploy 100% out of visibility on turn one and get my opponent to waste an entire shooting phase.

      i think that neutralizing the alphastrike is the new rules requirement. there are techniques to mitigate it, but it’s become a bigger deal than it should be able to be.

      • Drpx

        That’s nice, this is 8th.

        • Muninwing

          congratulations. apparently you can read too instead of just having an uncanny wit.

  • Tmx Malave

    No worries, this will be faq’d and TO’s will ban adding models without paying for them. This is what drove gamers away in the last edition!

  • lemt

    Looks neat, although you’ll probably quickly end up with no space for extra models

  • Ronin

    So…how are elite armies like Grey knights and primaris marines supposed to beat this?

    • ILikeToColourRed

      rock meet paper

  • ZeeLobby

    I love that all those fluff players who looked down in disdain at anyone who complained about balance as just being WAACers/competitors have now reached the point where they’re calling fluffy lists not fluffy, rather than address the real issues of a poorly designed game. Maybe they’re are coming to the slow realization that there may actually be problems with a totally nonrestrictive and imbalanced system?
    Even for narrative play?

    • I think the issue is more that a lot of people (myself included) want a wargame, not a magic the gathering combo game with models lol.

      Though I’ll never call this unfluffy. Its fluffy as hell. Its just built around your black mana deck lol

      • ZeeLobby

        Ah. Yeah. Well a better balanced and restrictive system would probably make a better wargame as well :D.

        • Muninwing

          that would require effort…

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah. Well it would at least require a concerted effort for players to stop blaming and labeling each other, and to put buying pressure on GW to actually fix it. But I doubt that’d ever actually happen.

          • Muninwing

            people categorize and label each other. that happens. what can best be done about that is minimizing the divide, or encouraging people to cross back and forth.

            i, for instance, am one of the least competitive people you’ll ever meet, except when i’m driving (and that’s another issue…). but i love playing in tournaments just to see what happens. i drastically prefer narrative, relaxed, fun games. but sometimes, i need that teeth-gritting tough match versus an optimized list to really appreciate the full game.

            the labels only really matter when someone is taking things to an extreme. and an actual one, not an overreaction being misconstrued as one. for the most part, there’s a definite line where someone is, for instance, being unreasonably competitive in a casual setting, and breaching the etiquette expected of “everyone has fun.”

          • ZeeLobby

            It’s more that the labeling of groups allows the community to shift blame away from the people who actually write the rules (GW) and towards those who simply play within their bounds (Fluff-bunnies and WAAC-ers). “Oh it’s the competitive people that ruin this game”. “Oh it’s the desire to match the narrative players desires that causes imbalances”. Etc.

          • Muninwing

            it’s a chicken/egg thing…

            the company writes bad rules. the players look for active exploits, which they then find.

            both exist in their own manner.

            i think that GW cops out with the blame game more than the players do. most of the balance issues would be addressed by coming up with a better-defined points algorithm. if everything was fairly and properly priced in the game, it would really just be about maintenance FAQing to remove the ubercombos.

      • Erich Schoenholtz

        Completely agree. If I wanted to play a combo based game…I’d play M:tG or some other card game not warhammer 40k. So far, after the amount of games I’ve played I’ve found myself becoming quickly bored with this version of 40k.

        • ZeeLobby

          Yeah, sadly almost all characters have become bubble buffs to combo with. Makes balancing individual units (or codex internal balance) even more difficult.

      • Xodis

        THATS IT!

        I kept trying to figure out WHY this edition is not appealing to me since AoS clearly does, and thats its. I hate MtG, and while I did see “combos” in AoS, its not nearly (IMO) as prominent or necessary as it seems to be in 40K.

        • ZeeLobby

          Do those combos not exist in AoS? Or is it just that those players who play combos just don’t exist there? I wouldn’t be shocked if it was the latter, and genuinely shocked if it was the former.

          • Xodis

            No, as I said the combos do exist, but its less prominent, and its less “needed” like it appears to be in 40K.
            Currently (and maybe we can just blame the overall meta) every “good” army depends on bringing a buffing character and spreading his love as much as possible. In AoS, character buffs are great but cover such a small area that its nothing more than a fun bonus. Tactics that “depend” on the character bonuses are rarely depended on for the army to work.

          • Munn

            That is completely false is every way. In AoS character buffs cover 2-3 times the effective area that 40k buffs do and armies absolutely depend on them to work. The difference between 40k and Sigmar is that characters can be headshot in Sigmar.

          • Xodis

            Negative, the only thing you got right was the fact characters can be sniped.
            I will explain that the meaning behind “such a small area” meant only a unit or 2, not the actual inches of measurement. That being said 2/3 times the range is factual incorrect on average. Most abilities range between 3-12 inches just like they do in 40K.
            No army is dependent on these buff abilities though, which is probably why AoS characters CAN be sniped so easily and 40K characters can not. Are the character buffs beneficial and nice? Yes they are, but they will not make/break the army if they are missing like they do in 40K. To state they are equally as important is just false.

          • ZeeLobby

            Hmm, do you think maybe that’s due to the shooting vs combat nature of the two games. I mean getting 6 shooting units within a 6″ bubble for a buff is much easier than keeping that all together in combat.

          • Xodis

            Just in case there was confusion by “such a small area” I meant covering very few units, not actual measurable distance. Its roughly the same between the 2 systems. Which is directly related to what you stated, being easier to buff people since the game is more focused on melee than ranged combat.
            THAT being said, it doesn’t change the fact that characters are not as instrumental in AoS then they are in 40K. Which if I had to guess has something to do with how easily they can be sniped in AoS. In 40K a character can make or break or your army and the tactics you use with that army, this is just not true in AoS.

    • It’s amusing in it’s way. “Commissars and Conscripts? That’s indecent! No self respecting player would ever field these together. It’s practically heresy!” Sure bud, whatever you say.

  • FCBullsht

    Deathguard Batallion:
    Typhus
    Necrosius
    Noxious Blightbringer
    Tallyman
    20 Poxwalkers
    3 Nurglings
    3 Nurglings

    Alpha Legion Batallion:
    Daemon Prince
    Daemon Prince
    Daemon Prince
    10 Cultists
    10 Cultists
    10 Cultists
    10 Cultists

    Alpha Legion Batallion:
    Daemon Prince
    Daemon Prince
    Daemon Prince
    10 Cultists
    10 Cultists
    10 Cultists
    10 Cultists

  • and …. I want to play you why ?

    • Muninwing

      to watch hordes of zombies and frothing cultists throw themselves under your tank treads, and yell something about you having “a little red on you…”

  • Crimson Dragoon

    Am I missing something here? Doesn’t a brigade detachment require a minimum of 3 fast attack units, which are noticeably absent from this list?

    That being said, I’d actually like to take a crack at fighting a list like this. The key would be hold off attacking the cultists until you can poke a hole in their circle and assualt the gooey zombie center.

    • Marcet

      Chaos spawn are fast attack.

      • Muninwing

        and as we all know from the other day, they are useless now… except when they are not.

        • Marcet

          Useless? why? Did I miss something?

          • Coltcabunny

            He’s referencing another BoLS baity “article” from the other day.

          • Marcet

            I see…

  • Thomas

    What is it with BoLS and their “strategy” articles using multiple stratagems in the same phase? Unless you’re one of about 15 people using Open Play, it’s not allowed.

    • Marcet

      Re-read page 215 the black box, you can use multiple stratagems per phase, just not the same one twice.

    • Karru

      And once more we see someone who hasn’t read the rulebook properly. You can use multiple Stratagems per turn, you can’t use the same one twice during one phase.

      • Thomas

        Huh. Welp, my buddies told me I was doing it wrong. I throw up my hands, good catch! Now, I’m off to shout at my friends…

      • Muninwing

        it’s still new. this kind of thing happens.

  • There’s a problem in that list : 37x cultists in a brigade.
    the 2017.07 FAQ says :
    “If you are playing a matched play game, you can
    only include an understrength unit in an Auxiliary
    Support Detachment”

    • Marcet

      Cultists are unit size 10-40, 37 falls between those parameters.

      • for me it’s 10, 20, 30 or 40 in any detachment or any number (1-40) in an auxiliary support detachment.

        • ILikeToColourRed

          in narrative you buy models in 5s and 10s to make the power levels work

          in matched this isnt the case as models have their own cost

        • Marcet

          Understrength comes only into play if it’s less than the minimum amount of models, so any number below 10 is understrenght, any number over 9 up to 40 (10-40) is full strength.

  • James Regan

    I’d say that this isn’t really the cheese that alot of people think- its a nice theme list, that yes, actually has a basis in rules, but from a min-max perspective, an army that loses ~50% of the time due to no first turn and has some really, really bad match ups (people have pointed out harlequins and orks as examples where it just won’t do well in a straight fight), isn’t maxed. it’s just kind of interesting, but doesn’t seem overpowered

    • John Henry III

      Taking out 20 T4 models at long range is not super easy for a lot of armies. Even if they go second as they can still survive.

  • SacTownBrian

    Seems like the Pox Walkers would quickly max at 30 and then the remaining acultists rmy would be quickly ground away. Maybe I’m also not clear on Typhus but it seems there is no redundancy there right? One Vindacare removes a critical piece of the army correct? What did I miss?

    • Muninwing

      “one vindicare”

      really, every army should include this.

      then again, every army should have counts-as access. i’d love to see a Tyranid army with a kitted out little beastie that has shadowy paint and a rifle-like long bio-weapon.

    • Andrew Fisher

      To kill typhus takes 6 vindicares

      5/6*5/6*4/6 = 100/216

      Typhus has 8 wounds because of DR but theres a chance a vindicare will do D6 not D3.

      Therefore the average amount of vindicares required is 6.

  • Frostasche

    Just a question.

    Is it anywhere written that summoning rules like this one overwrite the limitations on unit size? If i remember correctly poxwalker units have a size of 10-20. I think this whole thing should not work as they are already at maximum unit size from the beginning.

  • Nesanieru

    I think a big question is how do you get past the 1 strategem per phase rule? Unless I am missing something, this puts a damper on those movement phase strategems. Please let me know if I’m wrong, thanks.

    • Koonitz

      There is no such restriction. You are limited to using a single stratagem more than once. You are not limited in using multiple stratagems in a single phase.

  • kobalt60

    Seems beatable, just insist they use the actual right models, no ‘counts as ‘ nonsense. Anyone that paints up 100+ cultists, and a further 100 poxwalkers, just for a one trick army deserves their day in the sun

    • Muninwing

      yeah, i’d think this super fun to play against, all painted up. but i doubt it’s going to do super well.

    • Koonitz

      This is likely intended to be used in tournament scenes. Does your “… deserves their day in the sun” statement stand if they paid someone else to paint it for them?

    • ILikeToColourRed

      I already have 150 cultists painted and based from last edition (I love hordes)

  • MechBattler
  • You’re using 2 stratagems in the movement phase. You can only use one per phase. You can’t both create more poxwalkers and protect them from shooting.

    • Koonitz

      There is no such restriction. You are limited to using a single stratagem more than once in a given phase. You are not limited in the number of stratagems you can use.

      • You are correct. I misread that. Thank you.

  • MiNi Matt

    you’re not wrong… but it’s also frustrating that GW decided to listen to one part of the market instead of another.it’s like… either you can be a lawyer or a doctor. each take up too much time and cognitive ability for you to multitask. GW games were a lawyer. PP’s a doctor.GW saw that people needed doctors, and were unhappy with lawyers that kept losing cases through avoidable blunders. so they decided to reopen their business as a doctor’s office rather than figure out how to win cases.points balancing the games, regular FAQing, cutting bloat, and paying attention to how organized play works from the ground up would have easily established them as the master of their field. instead, they’ve chosen time and again to fight battles on other people’s home turf.

  • Bigalmoney666

    I’m pretty sure the pox walkers have a maximum unit size that can’t be exceeded, and if there isn’t prepare for an update in the rules errata.

  • Dennis J. Pechavar

    I like the idea. Junk units made great 🙂

  • DoctorBored

    The big thing that this gimmick takes advantage of is the fact that there is no ‘hard cap limit’ on the number of Poxwalkers that can be in a unit. I have a feeling that if we see this type of list winning the next tournament, that this will be FAQ’d promptly.

    • Muninwing

      i have a feeling that this list will not actually do any such thing…

  • Zeran

    CLARIFICATIONS: You can have units ABOVE maximum size on the field only, and if it adds models TO AN EXISTING UNIT it DOES NOT require reinforcement points. Reinforcement Points only applies to Summoning, Adding in entirely new units to the field, and Replacing a model with a different model. See FAQ for main rulebook in the reinforcement points section for proof.

  • happy_inquisitor

    Buy and paint a gazillion models. Have your fun – probably until it gets some sort of FAQ. It will probably look quite epic on the table if done right. I can’t imagine it would be any fun playing this list several times in a weekend but so long as people are restricted to using decent models properly painted i think that any possible problem is self-limiting. If on the other hand someone tries to pull this on me with ugly cheap proxies or a mass of grey plastic I am going to call them out for what they are and go have a beer instead 😉

  • Spacefrisian

    Unless you can ignore the part of cp being limited and only being able to use a strategem once per phase, i wouldnt be that scared of it…Spamming Defilers should scare peeps though, 167 with weapons and str8 t7 w14 isnt to be taken lightly imo..Wait till you add a Herald of Slaanesh in the mix and gave that Defiler the same mark.

    • 301stFeinminsterArmoured

      Tallyman’s in there for a reason. And you only have the 1 unit of Poxwalkers, so you only need to use DWA when they’re out of Close Combat. The ranged anti-armor you’d get from CSM Tanks would make massed artillery/walkers less of a problem, to a point.

  • This just seems so … so, Warmachine. Not convinced that this brings more to the game, seems to me that it could just lead to frustrated opponents.

  • Brettila

    This is why I hardly play anymore.

  • 301stFeinminsterArmoured

    Would’ve taken Hell-Preds and Rapiers over Noise Marines and Regular Preds, and ran the DG as the Brigade, to get more buff characters and better compulsory choices. Bubble-wrapped Crawlers, Preds, and/or Sicarans would also give the army a greater threat range, as would Blight-haulers in supporting the combo. Also, ditch the Sorcerer and Warpsmiths for a Dark Apostle or a Hellwright on Dark Abeyant, for more buffs. Alternatively, Consider Renegades, so you can get more Resilient infantry, as DWA doesn’t care what side or faction the corpses you reanimate come from.

  • Andrew Fisher

    I think, this is a great fun use of mechanics and hugely imaginative. It is very under tuned though.

    Fabius Bile is a must include (+1S, +1A or +1T) for 109 pts, sure he will kill the odd pox walker here or there but who cares if you have 100 with 3 A each right?

    Necrosius the undying is +1 to hit, re-roll 1’s on DR. He’s an auto include. 120pt deathguard HQ.

    I think we really need the bell and warptime. We might have 200 models, but at 4+D6″ a turn, we might never ever get to fight.

    I think cultists are not doing anything for the list horrors don’t do much much better -1 to hit 4++ makes them really hard for your enemy to kill, but! you can kill one a turn yourself with smite! Take 12 units and its 12 pox walkers a turn for sure.

    So i think drop the brigade (we didn’t want the smelly fast attacks and elites anyway, we go 3 battalions, 1 Death guard, 1 Alpha Legion and 1 Tzeentch demons.

    How can we protect the poxwalkers though? What if there was some way to make a target so dangerous and so inviting, that there was no way to ignore it? omg! we are alpha legion, 20 beserkers deployed 9″ from you.

    By all means, shoot our poxwalkers, but, i would point out, that the serkers will end the game. Also, solid plan B) if we get to go first, serkers to the face! costs about the same as pansy noise marines do too!

    Predators i think don’t really work, if you want a lascannon magnet that can kill stuff, magnus is the way to go. since we have the changeling anyway its only 415 for him!

    A final note.

    We have no reason to wait for out opponent to start creating our zombie horde. AoE from typhus for 3cp can net us a solid 12 zombies right from the start!

    This list has no way to win tournaments, it will lose over 50% of games but as a fun exercise in use of mechanics, i find it amazing.