Privateer: Company of Iron Ships

Privateer Press Launches New Tabletop Skirmish Game: Company of Iron. It’s on store shelves now.

October 25, 2017

Bellevue, WA – Privateer Press is releasing a new tabletop miniatures skirmish game that draws on the existing catalog of WARMACHINE & HORDES models to create a new tabletop game experience: Company of Iron. This highly anticipated game offers players a skirmish experience that requires fewer models and less table space than traditional games of WARMACHINE & HORDES. And while WARMACHINE and HORDES focus on full armies lead by powerful warcasters or warlocks and their battlegroups of warjacks or warbeasts, Company of Iron zooms in to focus on intense, narrative-driven firefights between small forces of soldiers making the game quicker to play and easier to dive into for both new players as well as veterans. In addition, because Company of Iron uses many of the models currently available in WARMACHINE and HORDES, it adds a new dimension to the impressive WARMACHINE and HORDES product line, serving as either a standalone offering or as an expansion to the full-scale games.

“While there is plenty to love about the fast-paced, tactically rich, cinematic gameplay of Company of Iron, the most exciting thing about Company of Iron is the incredible opportunity it offers as both a brand-new, standalone skirmish miniatures game and as a compelling expansion to the WARMACHINE and HORDES experience,” said Privateer Press Executive Director William Shick. “Thanks to its skirmish scale, Company of Iron is perfect for stores and players who are new to tabletop miniatures games, providing a streamlined and easy-to-pick-up yet extremely rich and tactically deep experience with only a handful of models. And for those stores and players who are WARMACHINE and HORDES veterans, Company of Iron provides a whole new way to dive even deeper into the exciting world of the Iron Kingdoms.”

Company of Iron $74.99

The Company of Iron starter box is available for $74.99 MSRP and contains miniatures, game accessories, and all the rules necessary to start playing right out of the box. This includes: 21 highly detailed miniatures with stat cards, 2 rules booklets and a scenario guide, 40 Command cards, 6 Commander Upgrade cards, 72 different game markers and tokens, an 18” ruler, and 4 six-sided dice. In addition to the boxed game, Privateer is also offering a special on Company of Iron army bundles, featuring the models needed to create a Company of Iron army for ten different WARMACHINE and HORDES Factions. These bundles are currently being offered through distribution and direct to retail at 25% off MSRP (normal MSRP for all items is $678.78 while the bundle is $509.09). Stores can contact their distributor or tradesales@privateerpress.com for more information.

Company of Iron will regularly be supported in the all-new No Quarter Prime magazine, which launched in September, as well as various Organized Play offerings throughout each year. Issues of No Quarter Prime will include squad lists, allowing players to play thematic armies in Company of Iron, and will include new scenarios and special rules for the game as well. Organized Play kits for narrative leagues and special events will also further support Company of Iron with new Commander Upgrade cards, rules, and scenarios exclusive to each event.

The Company of Iron start box is available October 25th from Privateer Press and local game stores.

  • euansmith

    I like the Orkz with Shootaz.

  • Xodis

    Seems like GW still sets the trends in miniature wargaming lol.

    • Chardun

      Skirmish games existed long before GW.

      • Xodis

        Existing prior =/= trending.

        • Chardun

          GW doing something != Trend Setting.

          Malifaux, Infinity, Dark Age, Guild Ball, Warmachine 1st Edition (when it first released). All Skirmish games that started and thrived all due to Games-Workshop shuttering their Specialist Games division. This also isn’t Privateer’s Press first version of the Company of Iron rule set.

          All these skirmish games came about in the time when Games Workshop pulled out of skirmish game market. If anything, this is Nu-Games Workshop getting their feet back into the water and force themselves back into the market share they surrendered.

          • Xodis

            So games existed prior to GW,
            but then GW created game,
            Then GW quits making games,
            so small companies pick up GW pieces.
            GW starts getting BACK into games,
            now small companies start remaking small pieces….and GW DIDNT start this trend?

            ok

          • ZeeLobby

            I mean read what you wrote. It sounds kind of insane, lol. GW definitely didn’t restart the skirmish trend, especially not recently, lol. If anything they’re now jumping back in after seeing how all the holes their developers left when exiting opened up opportunities in the market.

          • Xodis

            Skirmish games come and go all the time, but as soon as GW does it, their biggest competitor goes back to making a skirmish game? You admit yourself WM/H hasnt been Skimish for a bit (or years IMO)….so why the change of plans?

          • ZeeLobby

            BTW F*** BoLS stupid approval system. No curse words, no trigger words. It’s really frustrating trying to comment here…

          • Xodis

            Yeah they get me all the time too

          • Remember that DISQUS has multiple system internal filters that catch stuff for reasons only they decide on. Quite often the mods have to release comments that were caught for reasons we can’t explain.

          • ZeeLobby

            And then you guys also supply a list of catches as well? That’s pretty interesting. Still uber frustrating though, when you type out a 100 word comment, and can’t pinpoint where it went wrong…

          • Richard Mitchell

            As far as I know Malifaux and Infinity are still “skirmish size”. Company of Iron is a league they ran 2-3 years back? Way before Shadow War came out. In the style of 4D Hungry Hungry Hippos, I am going to say that they planned this all along. ;-). But it is pretty sad, anytime GW fanboys see something come out they always say….glad GW is setting the trend. But when GW started to adapt, not PP press practices but industry standard practices that have been used by PP, Wyrd, Corvus Belle, and FFG no really point that out. I understand this is because most GW players ONLY play GW products.

            Really at this point everyone is borrowing from each other, it is not a one way street.

            GW players not leaving their bubble is sad there are enough great games out there to try more than one. I know, I’ve played them. And no one says you have to quit your game to try another. I play many different systems.

            There is another sad point, whenever I am at the game store, I cheer on and complement 40k games because doing you is the most important thing.

            But whether its a game of Malifaux, Warmachine, or even freaking Deadzone, GW players are the only ones who come up and talk about how much they hate the game I am playing or other people hate it. It is like the interwebs given flesh. I am a big guy and I don’t really like having to get mean and shut people down IRL. But GW players are the only ones who do this. Revert to children and talk smack about a host of games they never played to begin with.

          • Xodis

            Trend = popularity, so yes GW sets the trend….or Xwing (as we see with the Star Trek and D&D clone). Whats funny is the GW haters (Im not a fanboy though Ive posted more than my fair share of criticisms of them so try and keep up) who claim otherwise when its obvious that everyone is following GW.

            Also as it was already posted Company of Iron was released after AoS, meaning once again GW stirred the pot and everyone else followed.

            Malifoux, Infinity, and all the others have been around for YEARS! Why are they not topping any charts? Because they are not that popular. No one is denying they have a following, but being first =/= setting a trend.

            Again, quit making assumptions about ME, because you dont know me obviously. You know nothing about what I have played or not so your internet psychology examination is weak. You are arguing against some made up “persona” instead of the actual person….go scream at a mountain if that is your goal.

            No, GW gamers are not the only ones, you are a clear example of te “other” players who feel the need to trash on GW “just because”. So obviously they exist on both sides.

          • Apocryphus

            The release of CoI coming after AoS or even Shadespire is irrelevant. As we all know, these things sit in development for a year or longer and who knows how long PP has been sitting on this idea? CoI is closer in playstyle to Malifaux than any GW game, Shadespire withstanding, so I’d place the blame on PP competing against Wyrd moreso than GW.

          • Chardun

            Exactly. CoI isn’t anything new. It’s just a way to play without a warcaster, with a few card abilities tossed in.

          • ZeeLobby

            Would make since considering their recent grymkin faction.

          • Apocryphus

            I’ll admit the stylistic similarities, but I love the Neverborn, so seeing them in PP’s style makes me happy.

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah. Agreed. I have no issue with them diving into that arena. More competition is always good.

          • Xodis

            So you think they released it a year or so after AoS, then sat on it for another year or so, only to rerelease it right after Shadespire releases? Thats a lot of “coincidences”.

          • ZeeLobby

            It’s called game development. Lol. Yes. That makes perfect sense. Jebus.

            What’s crazy is I know you’ve discussed and understood GW development times in the past, and how far out decisions are made. Especially in the past. So why does this shock you?

          • Xodis

            Because PP isnt a company that can just sit on a game for awhile, they are not GW who can keep cards close to their chest. They saw GW starting something and jumped on it. How does THAT shock you?

          • ZeeLobby

            I mean all I know is that they told us MK was under development for 3 years. Seems like a long time. Do you have some sources for anything you just said? Are you privy to contacts or PP team meetings? I mean we literally know CoI was a concept before these recent moves by GW. So I expect some hard documentation to back up these crazy claims… You know you’d ask for the same if I was claiming wild speculations about GW.

          • Xodis

            No, do you have any sources that say they spent any amount of time like they did with MK3? I know they need a KS to fund a video game of their own IP, so thats at least something for my side of the argument. What do you have?

          • Apocryphus

            A terrible game made by an unknown studio…what a horrible mistake.

          • Xodis

            Agreed.

          • ZeeLobby

            I mean they told us, which is more than GW has ever officially let loose. Yet I bet your comfortable with claiming long lengths of their development cycles. And what does their KS game have anything to do with anything, lol. Your turning this single topic into a very broad fanboy war here. Have fun fighting an endless battle. Seems like you really need a win today.

          • Xodis

            Not really anymore. I know you only go to the GW articles to claim “I’m out” anymore but they are quite a bit more vocal now. That being GW told us all about the development cycle of AoS as well.

            It goes to show they dont have the funds to invest in non priority ventures, pretty much proves that PP doesnt have the capital to just “sit” on a project.

            kind of hard when Im not a fanboy, but keep trying to fit me in that box I guess. Not really, like always Im getting paid to do this 🙂

          • ZeeLobby

            So you know their financials, well shoot. You should have just said so. Apparently your in their design team as well. You could have just started with these and saved everyone time.

            Keep moving those goal posts buddy. You should probably bring up how much better GWs minis are. You know, just to keep those goal posts in fresh positions…

            And sorry to disappoint you, but my personal opinions have no effect on reality. So GW said how long they developed AoS? I mean that’s be big news! I don’t remember that article. And 8th, did they say that too? Or the latest IG book. Or shadespire. If you could list their games with time frames from their mouths it’d be super useful. I might have just missed it.

          • Xodis

            Not moving anything pal, just making opinions based on observations. Should try observing more and less “gut reactions”.
            Why would you even care “I’m out” remember? But actually yes, they didnt say we started on this date and finished on this date, but they have previously stated in articles that they have spent months here, started around this time, etc.. etc… Pretty much the same way PP did. Should try following them and watching the interviews if youre that interested.

          • ZeeLobby

            Hehe so you don’t have any proof? Just making claims and… Gut statements :O.

            And your obsessed with this “I’m out stuff”. None of this is even relevant to the topic. Your just rolling with it tho, lol. None of this that your bringing up changes the fact that GW’s recent releases didn’t trend set skirmish games. Which is still the most laughable thing I’ve ever heard. Like does anyone believe you when you say this stuff. It sounds delusional.

          • Xodis

            It is relevant, because you act as if you want to know something…but really you dont, so why would I bother to post it for you since we both know you dont really care. GW just started a new skirmish trend, prove me wrong. No you are delusional, like always. Trolling to try and be right no matter what anyone says. Its the only reason you even come here anymore and has been pointed out by multiple parties in several other conversations. Seriously guy, get a life.

          • Apocryphus

            Yeah, I do. Maybe if CoI had dropped 6 months or more after Shadespire, I’d agree with you, but AoS isn’t even the same scale as CoI. They’re honestly very different styles of games.

          • Xodis

            Ill admit I know nothing about Col, but its still skirmish. Its still small number of models. Something different then both GWs and PPs regular company sized and primary games.

          • Apocryphus

            I don’t play AoS personally, but from what I understand, it uses a decent sized pool of models per player, but correct me if I’m wrong. CoI uses 10-11 models max. The starter set comes with complete forces. CoI also uses an alternating activation system like Malifaux’s, and uses upgrade cards for leaders, also like Malifaux. I get that AoS is a skirmish, I guess, I never thought it was supposed to be, but as I said before, this doesn’t seem like it has anything to do with GW. I’m assuming here, but this seems more like a simple parallel release by coincidence, than an intentional move to copy GW. GW is indeed a giant, but it’s so big, why bother trying to conform to them, there’s a more direct competitor closer, and Wyrd is currently working on a game more to scale with WMH. I think there’s a closer correlation there than with anything GW is up to.

          • Xodis

            Like most GW games they dont have a defined “size” but it can easily be played with a skirmish sized team or a company sized team. In fact it players better with less models, but like most GW or 40K players everyone thinks more = better. It was suppose to be a skirmish or company sized game originally, the meta kind of squashed the skirmish side, hence the introduction of Shadespire.

          • Apocryphus

            Competition with Shadespire carries more weight, but the releases are too close together. Any game could be played at a smaller level, so I think overall that’s not as strong an argument. I really think what we’re seeing here is everyone responding to the market all at once. I don’t see AoS setting the skirmish trend because, as you said, the players play it big anyway, regardless of GW’s intentions. The people who play these types of games (miniatures games I mean) have been gravitating towards “skirmish” for a bit now, and a few companies are just capitalizing on that viewpoint. GW can be a trend setter in some cases, just look at KoW and Rune Wars, or heck, the self contained board games that PP just up and released after GW started doing that left and right, but I think this time it’s a trend set by the player base, not by any one company’s game in particular.

          • Xodis

            No, but it was designed for the smaller level unlike those other company sized games, which was a major selling point since WHFB had such a high entry with large armies. That was a stated point pre release. AoS was originally thought to be WHFB skirmish, which everyone got excited for (and was rumored to be a Mordeheim reboot), then when the hammer came down about being a WHFB reboot essentially (pun intended) thats when people started whining.

            I can see that argument, trending due to the players not any specific game, I would just think if there was a movement for a Skirmish game one would be on top right now. I also dont think a company like GW would join in when the water is so saturated with so many other skirmish game (mostly failures though).

          • Apocryphus

            In my area, there’s this romantic idea of what a true skirmish game represents, or how it plays, and everyone wants it, but won’t leave the comfort of their primary game. I had to twist some arms to get people to even TRY Malifaux at my FLGS, and now people love it. It boils down to putting trust in companies. If I trust GW can make a good game (I have my doubts) and have been itching for skirmish, I’d play Shadespire. If I trust PP to make a good game (starting to have some doubts with the Dracodile release) I would play CoI. I don’t play either, I play Malifaux. But Wyrd is still very small, and the whole cards thing puts people off. I think we don’t have a skirmish game on top because GW and PP only just dropped theirs, and they are the biggest names in unpainted, unassembled miniatures wargaming right now, names people will trust immediately to slake their thirst. AoS is still regarded largely as a wargame more akin to 40k scale, so it hasn’t taken a posistion amongst skirmish games. I think if that had been pushed by GW harder, and they had not given conflicting messages by releasing “AoS Skirmish”, we could see it as a true trend setter. If anything, Shadespire and CoI are going to be the actual trend setters.

          • Xodis

            Ill be honest, its the cards and the lack of a faction I can fall for that keeps me away. I tried WWX, it was a failure. Im still going to try Fallout, and I enjoy skirmish AoS so Im diving into Shadespire myself. Been wanting to get into the DC/Batman miniature game as well, but I hate metal models. Luckily they are switching out soon. I have Ret models from PP, but I never did like the main game, I wouldnt be opposed to trying out their skirmish game, which is why I clicked on the article before all the drama happened.
            Despite being called a fanboy by these guys I actually cant stand 40K anymore because of the reasons that you probably have your doubts about them as a company.
            I dont think they will push the skirmish part of AoS, and I fully believe that is the purpose of Shadespire. This is a customers point of view though, Im sure PP along with every other miniature wargame business kept a closer eye on AoS then we did.

          • Apocryphus

            You’re probably right about PP keeping an eye on AoS, that’s good business practice. I bet you GW keeps an eye on PP too. WMH and AoS, while being utterly different, still share similarities. PP standardizes melee ranges in their system, AoS expands on the idea, PP adapts that expansion. Personally, I am curious about Shadespire, CoI is what it is, small scale WMH, so I’ll pass. I get the feeling these 2 will compete for king though, and then when one starts copying the other, we can point fingers.

          • Xodis

            Oh I dont doubt that, PP is GWs biggest competitor which I stated earlier.

            What I am waiting on is new skirmish games from other company sized game companies that “change things ups”. Maybe a Flames of War skirmish if they dont already have one.

          • Apocryphus

            Let’s see how many of these we can get on the market! Honestly, I find it uninspiring. I started this hobby playing 40k 16 years ago. I started WMH around 12 years ago, because it was different from 40k, and I started Malifaux 3 years ago because it was different from the other 2. Everyone is trying to be everyone else now, and it’s getting old. I’m going to give Shadespire a shot, but only because it’s very different from the other 3 I play regularly. Regardless of who actually started the trend, I hope it’s short.

          • Xodis

            I’ve enjoyed all AoS offers including the board games, plus it’s nice all the models work for RPGs if I end up hating it.

            Another reason I’m looking forward to StarWars Legion! Lol

          • Apocryphus

            I’m terrified that will end up like the Robotech game. But Star Wars is big, and so is FFG, so it could be a competitor.

          • Xodis

            Well we already see how successful Xwing is, but yeah I think this is going o be a lot tougher without the pre painted models and competing with GW directly.

          • palaeomerus

            Well, it’s not a kickstarter run by a guy who’s got a reputation for delaying books for a decade and using early 80’s publishing techniques. I think it’ll work out a lot better with a Disney license and Asmodee & partners behind it.

          • Apocryphus

            Oh, also, if it were just the cards turning you off to Malifaux, I can vouch and say it’s like controlled dice rolling, I greatly enjoy the mechanic and it’s easy to pick up on. I can understand not having a faction you are interested in though.

          • Xodis

            Yeah I think I could get over the cards I do enjoy Dread which is a Jenga based RPG. I check them out every once in awhile to see if anything clicks.

          • palaeomerus

            Also it works with a normal deck. The suits of Malifaux are just transformations of a normal deck of poker cards. Clubs are books, hearts are rams, diamonds are masks, spades are crows & face cards are just higher numbers per their rank(jack=11, queen=12, king=13, Ace=1).

          • palaeomerus

            A $50 set with special dice, a split hex board, and 8 minis, driven by a fixed set card deck is competing with a $70 boardless set of 21 minis meant for a measuring-tape game with common 6-siders using clicky-like modded 2d6 vs. value mechanics?

          • Apocryphus

            You still need special cards for CoI. It’s the play style and relative size, not what comes in the box. CoI is closer in scale to Shadespire than AoS so that is more likely the competitor.

          • palaeomerus

            Then we’re pretty much done here.

          • Xodis

            Only if you think we were talking specifics between games.

          • palaeomerus

            Shadespire being a boxed-set card driven hex game more reminiscent of D&D Dungeon Command than anything else?

          • Xodis

            Possible, didn’t play Dungeon Command, only bought for the models.

          • Richard Mitchell

            Well I would argue that Malifaux and Infinity are not topping the charts because of different reasons.
            Infinity is a direct competitor to 40k as they both occupy the same genre space. And the models are so freaking good they are intimidating to paint. Yes they are too good. But as someone who has painted for 20 years I enjoy them.

            Malifaux is freaking awesome, but it uses a poker mechanic. Which is easy to pick up and the reason I play it, but is a HUGE turn off for others because it is not dice. And dice are the norm.

            AoS is not successful and isn’t even on the top 5 of selling miniature games because it was a stop gap for 40k players who were waiting for 8th and now that 8th has dropped the well for AoS has gone dry.

            As far as assumptions as someone who was not aware that CoI was run as a successful league 2-3 years back and there were already rumors of it becoming a more formal system like Unbound you seem to make a lot of assuptions.

            Then again you would know this because you are not a fanboy right? Well what other non-GW games do you play? You show me yours and I will show you mine and we can measure in inches.

            How am I trashing GW, when I am commenting on an article about a GW game. All I have said about GW is that the industry made a lot of progress in 10+ years and now that GW has kept up with some of those standards, everyone is borrowing from everyone else. This is ahem…BUSINESS…if you are successful you keep an eye on what your competitors are doing right. You know, job stuff.

            The only thing I have been critical about is the cultish Apple-ish consumer arm of the GW community. This includes GW players who blame a broken mechanic on the players rather than the company and advocate for excluding players who play lists the community doesn’t like (shunning). Those who go onto forums to actively attack games they don’t even play (exclusion). And even isolating players or attacking players who dare play 40k AND another system (excommunication). Those sort of behaviours are sick sick sick.

            And the funny thing is GW has nothing to do with it. They are company, who freaking sells toys with rules, like all the other companies. They don’t make players sign non-compete agreements. They are in the free market and their behaviour shows the free market works. As someone who leans both conservative and libertarian, why would I attack a company who is participating in the marketplace within a legal capacity?

            It is cults I don’t like. I have positive and negative things to say about GW PRODUCTS (and some are solid like Shadespire and I look forward to Necromunda as a board game and I love the Dawn of War series). But I am way more critical of the GW cutlists. Which is not all players, I have yet to meet a person who plays a GW game AND another non-GW game that I didn’t not have a fun time hanging out with.

          • Xodis

            “AoS is not successful and isn’t even on the top 5 of selling miniature games”
            Again thats wrong and I already linked proof of its wrongness.

            Again, claiming me a fanboy proves you havnt read everything, and also proves that you are either a fanboy of PP OR a GW hater making your opinions just as biased as you believe mine to be. Congrats on losing your “higher ground”. No thanks, I dont feel a need to “measure” with anyone but again if you read I already listed several.

            You are trashing because you tried to make a connection between bad GW players to all GW players. Its disingenuous at best, then you tried to connect me to that.

            Favoritism. Just because you dont believe they are not doing anything wrong, doesnt mean you are happy about their success when it comes at the detriment to your own hobbies success. Pretty simple really.

          • Apocryphus

            I actually had a GW fanboy I knew personally try to ridicule me in a game store for playing Warmachine on that store’s Warmachine night. I have heard plenty of WMH players ridicule GW, but only in private conversation. GW games somehow attract nasty people. Not all of them are bad, but when they are, it is truly an ugly sight.

          • Richard Mitchell

            I have had those things happen to me mutliple times and have seen it happen to other people as well. I never see Heroclix, Magic, or Warmachine players openly trash talk 40k players during a 40k game, but man 40k players are openly hostile a majority of the time. Now there are some exceptions, most of the tournament players who are very competitive (by that I mean good) are also super awesome and confident guys. Which probably explains why I get protective of tournament players on GW forums for BoLS.

            And 40k players who also play other games, super cool. Then again PP is not the only game I play. I used to be a GW fanboy and I used to be that guy. I didn’t see myself as a consumer who voted with my dollar and by voting with my dollar I could shape GW’s corporate behaviour. I just had faith that things would get better while I still purchased multiple armies.

            It seems people voting with there dollars was the better course of action.

            Now that GW has turned around I am very excited about the Necromunda as a supported product. Not so much impressed with Shadow War or Kill Team. Mostly for seeing them for what they are. Kill Team is just an unsupported one off rouse to get people excited rather than a real product. Shadow War seemed okay, but compared to Deadzone, there was just no room for comparison in regards to price point and quality. Deadzone was the clear winner so I picked it up. Especially since I wanted something that would stay limited, rather than a gateway into Warpath. I buy a starter and I am done.

            This is why I own the limited factions for Warmachine. Khador is my main but Grymkin and CoC allured me because they are limited.

            40k 8th could be the best edition of 40k ever made. And I wouldn’t still play it. Why? What? Am I some kind of hater? Hypocrite! Apostate!

            No. Ever since I sold my 40k armies and got into Warmachine I already have a dice based wargame with a large model count that I enjoy playing. I am extremely satisfied with MK III and as I get older I don’t want to be invested in another dice based game with a large model count. Low model count is a priority and it has to offer a unique mechanic to keep my interest. I am a family man after all, and my wallet is not my own.

            Does this mean I won’t buy GW products? No, like I said I actually like 2D Necromunda. It is in the 40k Grim Dark and it puts me in a different mechanic as a board game. Same thing with the Dice Masters game, heck 40k Risk would be awesome. And I still buy GW digital products. I don’t’ buy the novels, but that is only because I am more interested in Warmachine lore because it is my large model count dice game, rather than foaming at the mouth hate. I still love Gaunt’s Ghost and I did send Gaunt and Tanith’s 1st and Only to alien battlefields at one time before I retired from that esteemed position.

            And if I was someone who was heavily invested in 40k and was extremely impressed with 8th, then I can see justifying a purchase of CoI. It’s a solid system, made by a private company who has worked hard cutting its teeth on the market time and time again. Anyone can say what they want about PP staff but you can’t say that they don’t work their butts off. Also it’s a low model count so you can still play 40k and buy 40k while participating in world building that occurs in the IKs.

            I may not see my 40k opponents on the battlefields of the Grim Dark, but I will see them in the sewers and alleys of a rotting Hive World. And a 40k player may not see me on the vast battlefields of the IKs but our platoons can still battle in the Ogroth ruins and Convergence ley line temples of Immoren.

            I don’t really see the hostility from either direction besides a cultish adherence to a for-profit company. Which is weird, GW is not scientology and they never marketed themselves as such.

          • ZeeLobby

            I mean they’d planned it before MK3. I don’t know. I think you’re just reading way too much into it. I think with MK3 PP simply realized they need a cheaper entry point to their games. It’s not like GW “revitalized” skirmish gaming. It was going well before.

          • Xodis

            No, I think I gave GW a compliment and everyone goes full Anti GW crazy like normal.

            Its been argued that GW is not as good (I never said it was)
            Its been argued that GW was not first (I never said it was)
            I only stated that GW released something and now its PRIMARY competition (Xwing is dominating in a world of its own and a different styled game) has now re-released something very similar after only a year. Its suspect.
            Going well how? Again most skirmish games are not even stocked except in the most successful of FLGS stores. GW skirmish will be, I will place bets now if you want, plus they have their own stores to stock.

          • ZeeLobby

            No. You gave GW credit where no credit is due. There’s a big difference. Reread your initial statement.

          • Xodis

            “Seems like GW still sets the trends in miniature wargaming lol.”

            No the credit is totally due. Who knows, if you are lucky, maybe now those “popular” brands of 10+ years might actually start selling well. Where GW goes, so does the crowd.

          • ZeeLobby

            Haha. K. There’s no discussing this clearly. GW sets trends, everyone follows is simply a moto you’ve engraved on your psyche. Regardless of the success or innovations other companies have been introducing for the past 15 years. I can’t make you see this if you don’t want to, so we can just let it go.

          • Xodis

            Not my psyche, just the clear evidence shown in media and financial reports.

            If these other games were “trending” there wouldn’t be a need to defend them and try and prove they are actually Popular. Does anyone argue against GWs fame? Of course not because that is silly.

          • ZeeLobby

            LOL. Clear evidence. A survey involving a single set of retailers… I’ll just let you keep going, you seem to be on a roll.

            I bet you think there’s no doubt that X-Wing outsells 40K as well.

          • Xodis

            Outsells? No, maybe in some countries but its not as world wide. Feel free to introduce ANY sort of evidence to the contrary of this, we both know it doesn’t exist though. So tell me, where do you get the idea that your other skirmish games are “popular”?

          • ZeeLobby

            Attendance at major events I go to every year. They seem popular to me. So your counter point is we don’t know what’s popular or more popular than others. I’d agree with that. But clearly they keep producing models, and expansions, so we must assume that they’ve been profitable over the course of their existence. It’s not like there’s any real conclusions that can be drawn, outside fanboyism, that it’s somehow due to the GW power teet, lol. I mean you can try, but its kinda sad…

          • Xodis

            Compare the attendance of those events to the attendance of GW events. GW is the clear winner, do you dispute that?

            Profitable =/= Popular

            No a clear conclusion CAN be drawn, you just have to set aside your biased point of view and look at everything.

          • ZeeLobby

            UM. difference in attendance does not mean one game is popular and the other isn’t. It just means one game is more popular than the other. I”VE NEVER SAID THESE GAMES WERE MORE POPULAR THAN GW’s. Jesus…

            All I said was that they’re popular.

            So neither of us can draw any clear cut conclusion. I’m OK with that. It doesn’t change the fact that GW didn’t start this trend, and doesn’t deserve the credit. Show me some “facts” that prove that they do, but I know you can’t, cause they don’t exist, lol.

          • Xodis

            No, but we are using YOUR method to determine those games are popular, and comparing GW the same way proves my point.
            “I”VE NEVER SAID THESE GAMES WERE MORE POPULAR THAN GW’s. ” Of course you didnt, because that would be dumb, the point is that setting a trend is part of BEING THE MOST POPULAR. Jesus….

            GW did start this trend regardless of your inability to grasp it, when the GW giant paves a path everyone follows. It doesnt matter how many people already walked it prior, GW is bringing the crowd like they always do, because they are the most popular.

          • ZeeLobby

            Wow. You do realize it doesn’t have to be the most popular to be a trend setter right? Like please tell me you get that. There are plenty of examples in history of trend setters that we’re never the most popular. Hell Apple itself started many trends with it’s rebooted computer OS which now exist industry wide and it has never outsold Windows computers. This false equivalency right there shows that you have no idea of what trend setting is.

          • Xodis

            Yes it does, trending is directly related to popularity, what about that do you not understand?

            Outside of being completely wrong about Apple never outselling Windows (it happened all the time between 2000-2010), there is no false equivalency.

          • ZeeLobby

            It isn’t though. It’s taking something and making it popular. Whoever holds the popularity crown RIGHT NOW doesn’t make them the trend setter of whatever that item is. Trending requires movement in a new direction. That’s it. Yes it requires that direction to become popular, but the original company who did it doesn’t have to end up THE most popular, lol. This is mind boggling that you don’t get this… Fashion is a perfect example. Fashion icons set trends, but general clothing stores who copy those trends sell WAY more product then the original designers. Haha. I swear, if I was next to you id be shaking you out of this cluelessness.

            My point was that while Apple was setting those trends it wasn’t outselling Windows, it never did, but many of those things we’re adopted by the industry. It was a trend setter. If Apple died as a company before it ever outsold Windows, it would STILL be a trend setter. Do you get any of this???

          • Xodis

            No the mind boggling part is your failure to understand trending and how you tried to argue, everything EXCEPT popularity until I finally explained it to you earlier in this thread….and how I still have to.
            Trending is releasing something and moving the masses in that direction LIKE YOU JUST POSTED, the masses come with GW or do you dispute that? No of course not.
            So the MASSES (who go with GW) will follow GWs lead and move towards skirmish games. Despite the “pioneering” that any other skirmish game might have done before hand. When GW does something it becomes the new “thing” because GW obviously owns the crowd. No hopefully a single slap and you would finally get what I am explaining.
            False comparison, because usually those Fashion Icons sell their “trending” design for others to use, which means they set the trend for ALL of those designs and are getting PAID for them and the recognition for them…its why they are fashion icons.

            Apple was still getting the recognition for creating the trend…hence trend setter. Can you honestly say ANY of the Skirmish games will get any recognition EVEN IF GW copies there game completely? No they wont, they are not an Apple that can set a trend and not profit off of it. They are another insignificant company (in the grand scheme of things) that will “hopefully” profit off of the success that will be completely attributed to GW.

          • palaeomerus

            Yeah, right. Brands that flourish for decades. Clearly you play Gorkamorka, Epic, and Mordheim daily, and have a Man O’War club, and Space Hulk 2016 is doing gangbusters.

          • Xodis

            Who is “flourishing” in your opinion? GW made the market popular (compared to where it was prior) then they left the market high and dry. Now they come back and everyone is still chomping at the bit. They sell Shadow Wars and it causes nothing but whining because there isnt enough, Blood Bowl comes back and knocks it out of the park, and now the very mention of Necromunda has most skimish/war gamers walking around with gamer wood.
            But yeah, the other companies are flourishing.

          • Chardun

            What did you not understand when I said the original Company of Iron ruleset isn’t new? It predates Shadow War: Armageddon by about a year. Sounds like GW realized how small scale games could drive sales from a competitor. The only difference from before is that they have an intro box this time.

            Look, I like GW games too. But to think the GW is the best and put them on a pedestal is just asinine. GW hasn’t done anything truly original for a while.

          • Xodis

            When did it come out? Years ago, and PP left it behind, so why did they “relaunch” it?

            Also, no one ever declared GW as “the best” so remove your strawman. The best =/= trending either.

          • Chardun

            No. It came out at the beginning of MK3. 2016 I believe.

          • ZeeLobby

            Nah. It was rumored to launch at the beginning of MK3. They were talking about it, and how it wouldn’t involve casters.

          • Chardun

            March 2016 was the first version. Here’s a Privateer Press Insider talking about it. I played in it and it wasn’t that bad. I even have that Gator pin.

            http://privateerpress.com/community/privateer-insider/insider-01-29-2016

          • ZeeLobby

            Ah, there we go. Yeah. I mean this was definitely well in planning. They spent a good amount of time developing it, which I’m all for. The few people who popped it open and played the past several days have said it’s pretty fun.

          • Chardun

            Yeah it wasn’t bad. I don’t remembering it being that competitive, but that could be me trying to remember something from 18 months ago too.

          • Richard Mitchell

            It was pretty well received when I ran it as a league. Wasn’t competitive but it was one of the more successful league events ran in my area.

          • Xodis

            Thats still after AoS, which turns out wasnt the flop people expected. Just saying. Still why the “rerelease” year+ later? Because GW released all these board games and starter games that are being bought up all over?

          • Richard Mitchell

            Dude AoS is a dud. You know that it didn’t even make the top 5 selling miniatures game. I can honestly say we have more players who play freaking WHFB than we have play AoS. For real man. There were a couple of hardcore 40k players who tried it for a couple of months, but since 8th dropped for 40k. They are completely absent. We have more Malifaux and get this…Deadzone players than AoS players (and I live in America). We have more BattleTech players and Team Yankee players than AoS players.

            Now in England…AoS might be hawt. But State side, dude it is dead dead. Like dead dead. Like stores in our area don’t even carry it dead.

          • Xodis

            Really? I think you are wrong.
            http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/03/industry-the-top-5-miniatures-games-2017.html

            Anecdotal evidence? Good call, you are going to need it after I just proved you factually incorrect on your first point.
            Im from southern US, so I have no clue about EU or otherwise, but in the South its primarily GW. There are a couple Malifoux players that are the same players that play all the other skirmish games, but its not even stocked for the most part. I even tried to get WWX started myself and no one budged. You know what everyone IS talking about though? Shadow Wars, Necromunda, ShadeSpire, AoS and 40K. Hell I dont even see Dreadball played anymore ever since Blood Bowl came out.

            No AoS wasnt a dud, I will admit that 8e pretty much stole everyone though, because thats just what 40K does.

          • Richard Mitchell

            Well I live in the desert SW and AoS is dead dead dead. What I see is that the year AoS released it was the 4th out of 5 in 2016.
            1. X-Wing
            2. 40k
            3. Warmachine
            4. Age of Sigmar
            5. Hordes

            Here is a more updated version for you. This is AoS a year after release.

            https://icv2.com/articles/markets/view/38061/top-5-non-collectible-miniature-games-spring-2017

            1. X-Wing
            2. 40k
            3. D&D Noizur’s Marvelous Minis
            4. Armada
            5. Warmachine

            Where is AoS? Mmmmm….

          • Xodis

            Aos a year after release? Thats almost 2 years, and thats what happens when a company doesnt release anything for it because its milking 40K for 6 months. What happened to Hordes? Is it a flop now? Probably the same thing. But where are ALL THESE OTHER skirmish games? Why havent they even made a dent with AoS and Hordes flopping so?

          • Matthew Pomeroy

            mountain west, not much GW here at all, 40k or AoS, MT:G and Battletech till your eyes bleed, as well as guild ball and X-wing. I bought Shadespire and tried to get it a “thing” and yeah not happening. AoS was pretty much the same.

          • Richard Mitchell

            Because it is profitable. Everyone is borrowing from everyone now.

          • Xodis

            Everyone ALWAYS borrowed from everyone, that doesnt change the fact that where GW goes, all these small companies follow. Its always been like that.

          • Chardun

            AoS was a dud until they released the Generals Handbook to bring in Matched Play. That’s what saved it and brought back people from trying out Mantic’s Kings of War.

            Saying the AoS paved the way for the original Company of Iron is a false equivalency. There are more models on the Khorne Bloodbound side of the AoS starter box than you’d see in an entire Company of Iron game. AoS is meant to be a Warmachine competitor; it’s not a skirmish game. Just look at how models in AoS have melee ranges? That’s never been in a GW game before. Maybe they should stop ripping off Privateer Press. Look at the Battalion War Scrolls, or the formations in 40K 6th & 7th edition. Looks like Warmachine army Themes to me. GW is so original… /rolls_eyes.

          • Xodis

            lol no Mantics Kings of War is what brought people back away from Kings of War.

            Stop ripping off PP? HAHAHA thats funny. All rules like that existed long before PP did, so dont roll your eyes too far.

          • Chardun

            Funny. While I didn’t get into it, my FGLS had plenty of local events and even hosted a regional event for Kings of War. And as I recall, there were no GW events at GenCon, while there were events for plenty of other miniature games.

            If GW was the trend setter, wouldn’t they have the most bigley event, since they keep winning? Other than a small Forge World store in the vendor area, they’re not even represented at the largest convention in North America.

            As for being a troll, you’re a pretty bad one. Did you not play other games because the rules were too hard? Or was it because they had a tightly written rule set that wasn’t as easily exploitable on technicalities?

          • Xodis

            First, If I was a troll I would be an excellent one, because here you are hours later….pretty much the definition of trolling so try to keep up.

            Ad Hominem aside, compare that single event to all the GW events they host and measure the turn out. Once again GW rises to the top. (Since you started the ad hominems) I know “popularity” is a rarity amung our hobby, but Ill explain it to you… when you are on top, you dont HAVE to go to all the events, and even when you dont…someone notices you are not there.

          • palaeomerus

            So you’ve never hear of Confrontation. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

          • Xodis

            No.

      • Matthew Pomeroy

        its just a shame that gw is not any good at it. AoS skirmish is horrible (but should have been so much better)

    • ZeeLobby

      Yeah… I think you’re reaching here… Tons of skirmish games pre-trended any attempt by GW since probably 2nd edition 40K

      • Xodis

        Tons of those skirmish games failed and disappeared too. Skirmish is just the best place to start for a new company…..its quite another thing for an established company sized wargame to take a step back.

        • ZeeLobby

          Except Malifaux and Infinity right? Those aren’t “starter” rulesets. They’re literally games built around skirmish. Skirmish is a perfectly viable and supportable game system. And yes, it may have been pioneered and abandoned by GW back when they were really the only company around, but claiming that they’re trend setting it now is just crazy, haha. We have Malifaux and Infinity events every week at our game store, and nobody walks in thanking GW for bringing it back to the industry.

          And sure games fail. All kinds of games fail. And yes there is a ton of Skirmish games on the market, and some will fail. But I fail to see how any of that is relevant to PP creating CoI, or GW rebooting old systems to keep up with the market.

          • Xodis

            Because those are trending right? I know they have a following, but trending is all about popularity, and I dont see that train making rounds.

          • Richard Mitchell

            I am seeing circles.

          • ZeeLobby

            lol. I don’t get it. I mean the current trend in skirmish gaming is no way due to GW. I just don’t get how someone could think that…

          • Xodis

            Should get that checked by a Doctor.

          • Richard Mitchell

            Exterminate! Exterminate!

          • ZeeLobby

            Huh? If my trending you mean have been popular for 10+ years then yeah, sure, they’re “trending”.

          • Xodis

            Define popular? AoS (the dud supposedly) outsold both of them in the year it was released. THAT is popularity.

          • ZeeLobby

            I mean now your pulling unsustainable facts into the equation. We don’t really know how well any of these sold in comparison. Sure it is likely AoS sold more (and i never called it a dud), but there is no like number value which equals popularity. Have Malifaux, Infinity and WMH had events for the past 10+ years that have been attended by players, yes. I would consider them popular. Local communities exist for these games, I would consider them popular. Heck there’s more Infinity players locally than AoS, does that mean AoS is unpopular, no, it just isn’t big locally.

            Regardless, skirmish games have been going strong for 10+ years, and there are companies that are built around and solely support skirmish gaming that continue to grow. GW introduced the concept to the masses (as other games definitely existed before), but they’re hardly leading the charge in this area. They haven’t been for over a decade easily. If anything they’re jumping on the Skirmish bandwagon.

            I don’t mean this as rude in any way, but is it possible you have some fanboy blinders currently in this comment section which is giving GW way more credit then they’re due? I mean after all, it was them who abandoned these playstyles in the first place. I will totally give them credit for creating a gaping hole in the industry that other companies capitalized on.

          • Xodis

            You didnt but someone else here did, and then I posted a fact that they were in the top 5 of 2016 for sales.

            No, because I quit 8e recently, so Im not their biggest fan right now. I just know how the majority of the miniature wargaming crowd moves…and its in the direction GW moves.

          • ZeeLobby

            Top five of those specific retailers. It’s still not an absolute number. We’ll never know to be honest. But just because one game sold 1000 less minis than GW’s 20,000 sold, does that make them unpopular? No, just less popular. Personally I play several different systems, and support them in waves, but none of them are dying when I don’t play them.

            And while that was the case 20 years ago. It just plainly isn’t anymore. Look at alternating activations, resource systems, etc. The game pool has advanced well beyond GW at this point, and now they are the ones catching up. They still make the most money, have some of the best models, etc. But that doesn’t mean they’re inovating daily or pushing the market.

            Apple is an obvious comparison here. And yes, while some companies copy design or app decisions Apple makes, and Apple is still the top company for mobile, there are plenty of advancements other companies make that lead the technology elsewhere (VR, etc.).

            I just think it’s nutts to think that GW is still the sole pioneer of the industry at this point.

          • Xodis

            As do I, luckily I am not basing my opinions on anything about my personal taste.

            So other, less popular games, do different stuff….and? The “game pool” may have advanced, but the majority of the player base seems to not have advanced past GW, which again is the point.

            Daily innovating or changing the market =/= Setting the trend. More ridiculous Strawmen.

            Apple is the obvious comparison, but what you skipped past is that Apple still sets the trend. Name a new upgrade, any new upgrade. There are Android phones that already have it while Apple does not….however once Apple and the iPhone get it, it becomes the standard that EVERY Android will have….thats called setting a trend. No, they dont have to be first, No, they dont have to be the best. Yes, they are just THAT popular that they just can.

            “I just think it’s nutts to think that GW is still the sole pioneer of the industry at this point.” Again, you either dont understand whats being discussed or choose to actively ignore it for your own strawmen. Being “Trending” or even “Setting the Trend” =/= sole pioneer either.

          • ZeeLobby

            LoL. Yeah, their Animojis and screen with giant inset blocking it are gonna go real far this year…

            And I think you fail to understand what trend setting actually means. It means you have to actually be the starter of that trend, and clearly GW is not the starter of the current Skirmish trend. I mean what is your goto for that? AoS? I wouldn’t even consider that the same scale as CoI or other skirmish games. That’s definitely a company sized mass battle game.

            I dunno, it doesn’t matter in the end, like I said, you’ve convinced yourself, and for you that’s all that matters. So it’s OK.

          • Xodis

            No, its obvious you dont know what Trend setting means since I have had to correct you like 5 times already.
            Also, you do NOT have to start the “trend” only move the majority in that direction. The iPhone WAS NOT the first smart phone, the existed for years prior…..but APPLE and the iPhone STARTED the Smart phone trend, do you disagree?

          • ZeeLobby

            Yes. I totally agree. Just like GW started the tabletop wargaming trend. Doesn’t mean because they set one trend they set all trends. You get that right? Split screen, stylus, phablets, etc. All current day trends Apple didn’t start. Just like GW didn’t start today’s skirmish game trend.

          • Xodis

            No I agree that sometimes it switches. Look at Video Games and how Nintendo goes from 1st to last and now is making its way to the front again.
            I wouldnt call any of those “trending” either.
            GW on the other hand is dominating. They release a poor rules version of 7e, and a better one with 8e (which I still dont like after finally getting some games) and people still eat it up. Like you said, there have been all kinds of Skirmish games throughout the years, GW releases some Shadow War, and revives some Necromunda, that people apparently never stopped playing, and BLAM! Skirmish is back, and will be trending everywhere online.

          • ZeeLobby

            Apples MacBook Pro and all-metalic body with chiclet keyboard is CLEARLY a trend now in high end laptops, yet other manufacturers outsell them every year. Again popularity =/= trend setting. Sure GW dominates the gaming market, but that doesnt equate to starting the skirmish trend, lol.

            You do realize that skirmish was already popular right? Lol. Go to any generic gaming blog, or hell BoLS and they report all the new releases for infinity, malifaux, etc. If by skirmish being back you mean you finally realized those communities existed, then sure… I think we just have a massive case of “all I see is GW locally, so there must not be other successful games”. I can’t help you with that, you gotta branch out on your own. There are active communities and forums for all of these skirmish games. But now because GW makes an announcement suddenly it’s back! Lol. Are you reading what you write? And what it’s back now because PP decided to create a new skirmish game before GW even brought skirmish back. Dude, what are you on???

          • Xodis

            Chiklet keyboards are not a trend, nor will they ever be. Mechanical keyboards are trending BACK from the dead because longevity and precision always. Chiklet keyboards were to save $$’s and they are not well received. Also your comparison is against Apples vs everything else…thats like comparing a Ferrari against everything else, just because they dont sell the most doesnt mean that are not the most popular…they just happen to have a price point outside of most peoples range. Compare similarly prices laptops and the numbers will be far different.

            Ive always liked Skirmish and have been going through them for 10+ years now. So no, its not about what I think, but what I see in the community. Skirmish wasn’t that popular, it has been considered a “back up” when someone couldnt find a 40K game, or something to wing them away since they fell out of love for 40K.

            “I think we just have a massive case of “all I see is GW locally, so there must not be other successful games” Again you are confusing what you believe to be my own personal anecdotes with what can easily be seen with the media at large. What we really have here is a case of the “I hate everything GW does so they should never get any credit, even though multiple people seem to say the same thing on every GW article I still am a part of”.

            I never once denied they didnt have active communities, youre reaching for straws now.

            Really? Are YOU even reading what you write? You already admitted that PP probably is following GWs lead on this with their re-release…going to back track now? Wow I usually take you more serious than this, this is sad.

          • ZeeLobby

            Is PP following GWs lead in creating a smaller introductory game to their system. Yes, this is EXACTLY what I said, and it wouldn’t shock me. Is PP introducing a skirmish game because GW said the word skirmish? LOL, no. Not at all.

            And Chiclets are still very popular in high end Ultrabooks. Samsung series 9, Dell XPS, etc. Dude. Your just not even going with reality anymore. Making up stuff I said, telling lies about the laptop sales industry. At this point I’d say you need help. This is like Fake News x 11. I mean now your trying to pull in price points when we’re discussing features, trending being independent of price (remember my fashion example, which of course you didn’t reference because it obviously supports the fact that a companies sales or profits have nothing to do with trend setting). You’re on your own bud. Basically watched you unravel before my very eyes, lol.

          • Xodis

            Not popular, cost effective. There are so many things wrong with chiklet keyboards I am incapable of understanding why you would think its a “good” thing for anything other than cost. No lies, you are the one who thought Apple VS everything was a good idea. Of course people are going to buy a $200-300 laptop instead of a 1200 laptop.
            Ok so what are the differences between this version of the game the version that was released years ago? I mean it should be pretty different if they needed this time to get it right, right?

          • ZeeLobby

            A bunch of rules were changed. The way tough and getting knocked down worked. The choices you could make for army composition (only taking lights, limitations on units. Supposedly some of the cards changed or we’re updated. All of the box content wasn’t designed or printed. I mean I’m listing these obvious things, even though you’ll write it off cause you have no plan.

            And STOP putting words in my mouth. I NEVER said chicklets we’re good. I love my mechanical keybaord. Again I think your just focusing on your personal desires as if they somehow affect trending. And both the Dell XPS and Samsung Series 9 are very similar in price to the MBP. I dunno man. You just keep diving further off that ledge.

            As a side note I think it’s funny that you just like assume PP does no development when the CID is way more advanced than any development system put in place by GW. And PPs teasers of units can be years in advance.

          • Xodis

            No Im not writing that off, I dont think it would take that long to make those adjustments, but Im not a game designer. Just curious why they wouldnt have the box printed and everything else ready though if they felt they needed to make a full release of it. Unless that changed for some reason.
            No you are stating that Chicklets are “trending” its not trending, its cost effective which is always trending at all times conflating the two. Yes, and how well do THOSE sell compared to Apple?

          • ZeeLobby

            Right. Your not. Probably a bad idea to try and make those assumptions as part of an argument eh? And they released the rules, and the concept, not the full box as a game. It was still under development. Cause you know, it takes time and all.

            Dell XPS are actually a very successful laptop. Huge in industry sales, and widely acclaimed as one of the best Windows laptops. My friends company which he works IT for has 20K employees and purchases way more XPS than Macs, even though with the upgraded SSD they’re very similar in price. Many reviews praise Dells chicklets keyboard. Along with Apples. Ultrabooks in general were produced in response to Apple’s Air and MBP line. The chicklets keyboards are best when making a laptop thin. Some people actually really like them too. So yeah man. I’m really not getting your point here. Stick to stuff you know, like praising GW for everything they give us, holy into them!

          • Xodis

            Probably because Windows is better for what that company does. I work for Nexstar Broadcasting as IT (go ahead and look it up, far more than 20K), and I can tell you macs own the media industry…which has a lot of other industries attached to it that also use macs. So why dont I stick to things I know, while you try to stick to what YOU know and not your “friend”.

            Also, you probably shouldnt be claiming “someone needs a win” when YOU are the one who just spent hours arguing with someone else about THEIR opinion. Its kind of ridiculous.

          • ZeeLobby

            Hehe. So what your saying is that both Macs and Windows devices can be successful. Lol. Shocker. I work in software, so I don’t need to trust my friend. I just consider his work in financials much more hardware independent so I used it as a better indicator. See the things g is I never said Macs weren’t successful, so you don’t really have to prove anything to me. But if your claiming that Dell XPS is a unsuccessful line, you clearly don’t know as much as you think you do.

            You never stated an opinion. You stated it as a fact. And don’t try to pull that weak flag out now. Please, have some respect for yourself. If that was your true intention you wouldn’t have mentioned it in your first response. “Oh, they I’m not saying that they ARE trend setters, just that they are for me personally. They lead my trends all over.”

            It’s like saying “mechanical keyboards are the best”, which is debatable, instead of saying “I like mechanical keyboards the most”, in which case I would have said “cool man”. (Sigh, teaching basic logic).

            I mean at least be true to yourself man. Take pride in your claim. Don’t water it down with “it was just an opinion”. Take action over your words!

          • Xodis

            No, Im saying your anecdotal evidence doesnt prove anything because I, specifically in this case, can show anecdotal evidence that counters and demolishes it. It is an unsuccessful line, because there are a lot more computers out there that have more bang for the buck, along with a much better hardware than what Dell provides. So maybe you dont know what you are talking about. Most corporations that buy in bulk like that get a discount, its how Dell and other manufacturers move product when the open market isnt doing it.
            No it was always an opinion, just one I believe is correct and have defended. If it was a fact I could have posted proof and been done with you hours ago obviously.
            Mechanical Keyboards are superior in every testable way, that IS A FACT, its not debatable. I take pride in everything I said. Its always great to educate those who are lacking.

          • Matthew Pomeroy

            Its also regional, where i live GW as a whole is wildly unpopular, rarely seen outside the GW.

          • Xodis

            How big is regional IYO? Are you speaking for a city, County, state, etc…?

            All games are regional or sometimes it’s less regional and more based on flavor of the month. I see 40K in waves myself.

          • Matthew Pomeroy

            more than half my state so far. And gawd help you if M:TG has a release that weekend, if so you wont see anything else on any table (with the one exception of an x-wing tourney)

          • Xodis

            I haven’t seen a place that isn’t overrun by MtG, it’s pretty much unanimous by any FLGS I have talked to that it’s the best selling game available for a store owner.

            Maine? Texas? California?

            Most of my experience is the lower half of Texas, Arizona, and DFW. But Dallas area is packed enough you can find anything being played.

          • Matthew Pomeroy

            I have been just about all over, spent some years in Europe and Asia as well as Australia. But yeah pretty much Mtg is king.

        • Richard Mitchell

          To fair lance on lance battles show that BattleTech was the first true skirmish game.

          • Xodis

            Again first =/= trending. No one ever said GW was first, so stop the strawmen.

          • Chardun

            Then you treat being first to the party as trend setting. Then if we call you out on actually not being first, you double back on being popular. Then if we call you out that they’re not popular in certain areas or demographics, you jump back to being ‘first’.

            No one is in dispute that GW isn’t the giant in the room. What we’re disputing is if they’re actually innovating the hobby or just capitalizing on actually trends started by other companies.

            All these other companies have always done skirmish games. Hell, playing Warmachine at the 0 or 15 point levels is a skirmish sized game. All Company of Iron did was allow you to play the game without a Warnoun. It isn’t a new game, it’s a variant of an a game they already produce.

            You need to leave your GW echo chamber. It doesn’t mean you have to stop playing GW games, as I sure haven’t, but it does let you see things from different perspectives.

          • Xodis

            When have I said first was trend setting? Popular is always trend setting, and where is GW not the most popular? If you have 2 giants like AMD and NVidia fighting tooth and nail, then First is relevant because they are both immensely popular. GW is the only giant on the field, with a number of fans that far exceed most other companies combined. They dont have to be first to set the trend, because when they say “this is the trend” its set by the majority of Wargaming players that follow them.
            No one said they HAVE to innovate the hobby, again innovation =/= trend setting either. Innovation is what made PP what they are today, but they are not setting trends.

            I do play Warmachine (mostly paint though) and quite a few other non GW skirmish games actually. Try as you might, even Zee believes that PP is copying GWs lead with this, so I highly doubt many people see it differently if me and him who almost never agree, agree on that.

            Your assumption that I live in a GW echo chamber just proves you are as biased as you believe me to be.

          • Chardun

            I wouldn’t attribute anything to Zee that he didn’t actually say. Scrolling up to his last comment disputes the assertion you’re trying to make here on his behalf. Seeing as you live in that echo chamber here’s some quotes of his for you.

            “Just like GW didn’t start today’s skirmish game trend.”

            “Lol. Are you reading what you write? And what it’s back now because PP
            decided to create a new skirmish game before GW even brought skirmish
            back. Dude, what are you on???”

          • Xodis

            Keep checking them all. Lots of posts, but it was an original one. If you cant find it let me know.

            Hint its right here “Now in this SPECIFIC intsance, I do think WMH is following in GW’s footsteps in realizing that providing an easy entry point with smaller cost to their larger systems is a smart move. “Hey I wanna try this new faction, but I’ll just start with CoI”. This is similar to some of the other boxed sets GW has released”

          • Chardun

            Well, just because he may have agreed with you, doesn’t mean he’s right.Warmachine has always had Battlebox games. $40-50 entry point to try a new faction. They’ve had this since their inception in the early 2000s.

            For someone who claims to play, or at least collect, Privateer Press models, you’re pretty bad at coming up with reasons or excuses. I mean, like really bad.

          • Xodis

            So PP always had entry level kits but now they need new ones and felt like pushing them through a new styled game? Hmm I wonder who started doing that with both 40K and AoS years ago….hint it wasn’t PP.

            no need for excuses when I can simply bring up history to prove you wrong time and time again Mr “AoS was a flop despite it being in the top 5 of sales”.

          • palaeomerus

            Starguard, yo.

  • Drpx

    A skirmish game based on a skirmish game.

    • Chardun

      Yeah. I guess this is Warmachine getting back to its roots.

    • ZeeLobby

      WMH hasn’t been a skirmish game for a bit. It’s definitely a company level game now.

      • Richard Mitchell

        That is true, I like the 50-75 point games, but the COI was fun and though it may start as a skirmish game I hope COI expands to a version of warcaster-less games that can be played within WM just to give more variety of play within the same system.

        • ZeeLobby

          Agreed. I’d love to be able to play with non-warcaster led armies.

  • benvoliothefirst

    Helloooo, custom Bebop figure! Just need to find a Rocksteady now.

  • Richard Mitchell

    Can’t wait to try this and Mantic’s Vanguard. Never wanted a large War of Kings army but I would like a Vanguard force if the models look good.

    I played and ran the Company of Iron about 2-3 years ago and it was a lot of fun. I like Skirmish systems, low buy in and they are usually a lot of fun.

    As far as the Orkz with Shootaz thing I don’t see any. I do however, see Thornfall Alliance Farrow models from the Minions factions and not only that but Brigands who have been available as Minions (mercenaries) for Hordes army since 1st edition.

    So about 10 years now?

    I do find it sad that everytime a product comes out the GW players who only play GW products feel threatened. It is a sad and wierd behavior towards games they neither play or have a financial investment in.

    What sadder is they correlate a sci-fi and a full metal fantasy game as in the same genre and competing in the same space.

    I mean AoS and WMH? Sure, lets run. 40k and…Warmachine? Not Warpath, Infinity, At the Gates of Antares, Dark Age, or even upcomming Legion. Nope its sci-fi magic vs full metal fantasy.

    When I want to play sci-fi, I usually go to Deadzone, Dark Age or Infinity…not Warmachine.

    Anyway this game will do something magical. It will allow you to try a none GW game. I know, its scary, I was in your position too at one point with my Black Templars Army, Grey Knights, Nids, and Dark Eldar.

    But trust me, there are no jack booted GW police who are going to throw you in the camps for playing another system or….(play GW games AND other systems).

    I know I know its crazy.

    Anyway can’t wait to add this within my game rotation. Hope it expands into the possibilites of larger non-warcaster battles so we get more ways to play within the same game world.

    • ZeeLobby

      Yeah, Vanguard has my interest up.

      • Richard Mitchell

        Ya, I heard great things of KoW but as time marches, I am less interested in big armies. I think the last big army game I am going to get is Otherside, unless its 15mm or less. But Iove these skirmish sets that allow you to explore and participate in the world building.

  • Oh good. Another skirmish game.

    • ZeeLobby

      Hehe. I’m actually looking forward to this one. I have the minis, and both likes and dislikes of the core game. I like that things aren’t tied to some caster bubble.

  • miniwar monger

    Looks pretty boring on the miniature side of things.

    If this stuff is metal it can die right away.

    • ZeeLobby

      It’s plastic, and it’s almost every mini PP offers, lol.

      • Matthew Pomeroy

        I have it and LOVE this game.

        • ZeeLobby

          I picked up my copy today actually. The store had to order extras from another distributor. Reading the rules tonight. We’ll see how long the community keeps it going, but it’s pretty popular right now.

          Have you played games? Let me know what you think when you do.

          • Matthew Pomeroy

            I think we will see it around a good while since it compliments more than competes with mainline warmahordes.