Goatboy’s 40K – Warzone Atlanta’s Winning Lists

Goatboy here again and today will talk about some of the lists that did well at Warzone Atlanta.

Those guys seem to run a pretty neat event with a return of overall score having a strong meaning as well as a lot more wide open style of field.  No limits on power level, usually lists are pretty min/maxed, and a return of a butt stomping list ideal.  They also run their own missions as well – so you can get some crazy designs that might not work in other tournaments but we can at least gleam some new thoughts to help your own armies out.

Overall Winner – Astra Militarum List

First will go with the overall winner.  First of all – yes his list is illegal He took a relic on a HQ choice that he could not take.  I don’t think this was maliciously done as I know the guy, friends know the guy well, and heck he got 5 out of 5 best game votes.  That is a pretty hard thing to do in any given event.  He also got a maxed paint score, won a lot of games, and was a decent person to play against.  Of course – as the list is illegal I still think no matter what you do – you DQ yourself just to at least bring less shame to yourself and the event itself.  I mean no one is winning enough to make this a living. The prizes, while neat, are not why I go and try to win events.  I go to meet friends, have fun, and hopefully get some decently competitive games in.  Will see what the event does – but hopefully Andrew looks at the fact he got 5 best game votes so any stigma from this shouldn’t stick on him.

Secondly – read all your rules.  That rule is right in the front of the book where it is obvious you can take these guys in your list and not break your regiment.  If you are planning something that combines all kinds of rules from all corners of the 40k universe – then triple check your list.  That relic is pretty devastating to Chaos – especially mixed with 4 Manticores.  Good lord no Daemon Primarch should be living through that barrage bar bad dice.  It is obvious he could easily tweak his list and make it legal but still.  Enough chatting lets look at it.\

Thirdly – we really need a better way to build lists.  The big frustration out of all of this is that the lists were posted beforehand.  The whole review the lists and have the internet judge them beforehand is really hard to get to work right.  It seems most of the time the only way things are caught, is when the event is live broadcast and the final rounds lists are posted.  I don’t know what else to do beyond just having all top finishes on day 1 double checked to ensure there are no issues on Day 2.  I know the Apps like Best Coast Pairing help out as people can keep up with their friends, review match ups, and actually check lists. Ugh this whole, every event has a bad list thing is getting frustrating.

Brigade – Vostroyan
HQ:
Company Commander – Kurov’s Aquilla
Company Commander
Company Commander
Elite:
Veteran Squad, Lascannon, Grenade Launcher X 3
Veteran Squad, Lascannon, Grenade Launcher X 3
Veteran Squad, Lascannon, Grenade Launcher X 3
Troops:
Infantry Squad, Lascannon, Plasma Gun
Infantry Squad, Lascannon, Plasma Gun
Infantry Squad, Lascannon, Plasma Gun
Infantry Squad, Lascannon, Plasma Gun
Infantry Squad, Lascannon, Plasma Gun
Infantry Squad, Lascannon, Plasma Gun
FA:
Scout Sentinel, Lascannon
Scout Sentinel, Lascannon
Scout Sentinel, Lascannon
HS:
Heavy Weapon Team, Mortar X 3
Heavy Weapon Team, Mortar X 3
Heavy Weapon Team, Mortar X 3
Heavy Weapon Team, Mortar X 3

Outrider Detachment – Krieg
HQ:
Death Rider Commader, Plasma Pistol
Elite:
Death Rider Command Squad
FA:
Death Rider Squadron
Death Rider Squadron
Death Rider Squadron

Spearhead Detachment – Cadian
HQ:
Primaris Psyker, Relic of Lost Cadia (Illegal as the Relic is Cadian only – and the Psyker does not gain a Regiment”
HS:
Manticore, Heavy Bolter
Manticore, Heavy Bolter
Manticore, Heavy Bolter
Manticore, Heavy Bolter

Basically it is a massed AM list with every choice being a strong choice and duplicated to fill up the Detachment.  The Krieg Riders are a nice bit of secret sauce as they can come in and put pressure on your opponent, give you some nice counter assault to clear out some Berserkers, and are fast enough to get around and score some objectives as needed.  They are also not too weak with so many units they can easily sacrifice a few.  This army is going to be burning Command points all game and getting them back.  It is a machine and one of the things will see a lot as time goes on.  The changes to the Commissar means Infantry Squad just might be a better bubble wrap.

The Ork List

An Ork list piloted by a Val Heffelfinger did very well.  I really think the Ork codex has a lot of gems in it as well as some strong FW support.  If the book just gets better like most of the other armies shifting from Index to Codex means will see a really rough monster of an army.  Lots of bodies, decent damage output, and one of the best spells in the game means be prepared for friends to ask you if you have any boys from the old Starter sets.

Vanguard Detachment
HQ:
Big Mek on Bike, Kustom Force Field, Choppa
Boss Snikrot
Troops:
Boyz – 27 Slugga/Choppa, Boss Nob, Big Choppa
Boyz – 26 Slugga/Choppa, Boss Nob, Big Choppa
Elites:
Nob w/Waagh Banner, Kustom Shoota
Kommandos – Burna X 2, Boss Nob, Big Choppa
Kommandos – Burna X 2, Boss Nob, Big Choppa
Kommandos – Burna X 2, Boss Nob, Big Choppa
Kommandos – Burna X 2, Boss Nob, Big Choppa

Spearhead Detachment
HQ:
Weirdboy
HS:
Big Mek Gunz
Kustom Mega Kannon, 5 Grot Gunners
Kustom Mega Kannon, 5 Grot Gunners
Kustom Mega Kannon, 5 Grot Gunners
Kustom Mega Kannon, 5 Grot Gunners – One the Warlord
Big Trakk, Supa Skorcha
Big Trakk, Supa Skorcha

Supreme Command Detachment
HQ:
Weirdboy
Weirdboy
Weirdboy
LoW
Gargantuan Squiggoth, Big Zappa X 2, Huge Tusks, Twin Big Shoota

This Ork army is full of the good stuff.  You have the annoyingly good Big Mek Gunz with their interesting rules and how you can use and abuse hidden Grots.  The Big Trakks with their auto hitting Supa Skorchas are just so strong right now especially with those pesky Eldar guys who have -2 to hit.  He has a plethora of Smites as well which is great way to answer stuff.  Plus he has the big daddy himself – the Squiggoth – who just takes a lot to take down, can force your opponent to react incorrectly, and do a ton of damage when he gets in and starts stomping.  I think more Boyz is better just for myself but this list looks tough.

Best General – Chaos Soup List

Best General was Collin Watts who went with a Chaos Soup list that looks like something I might play.  It is a Morty/Magnus list with tons of horrors, Daemon Princes, and some Giant Chaos Spawn.  Mix this with a ton of different Daemon Characters and you get this mix of overlapping rules, auras, and paint for your opponent to deal with.  There isn’t much to say then these two Daemon Primarchs just love to hold their hands together and cause problems for all these Imperium jerks.

Super Heavy Auxiliary Detachment
LoW
Mortarion (He gets access to all his Strats to)

Battalion Detachment – Chaos Daemons
HQ:
Daemon Prince of Chaos, Wings, Mark of Tzeentch, Malefic Talon X 2
Daemon Prince of Chaos, Wings, Mark of Tzeentch, Malefic Talon X 2
Daemon Prince of Chaos, Wings, Mark of Tzeentch, Malefic Talon X 2
Troops:
Brimstone Horrors X 10
Brimstone Horrors X 10
Brimstone Horrors X 10
Brimstone Horrors X 10
HS:
Giant Chaos Spawn, Mark of Nurgle
Giant Chaos Spawn, Mark of Nurgle
Giant Chaos Spawn, Mark of Nurgle

Supreme Command Detachment – Chaos Soup
HQ:
Malefic Lord
Malefic Lord
Herald of Nurgle
The Changling
LoW:
Magnus

This is one of the lists I always think about but then don’t do because I don’t want to make the Giant Chaos Spawn.  But man this list looks like something terrible I would bring because I have so many dang Daemon Princes that just want to come out and play.

CSM – Death Guard – Alpha Legion List

Finally I want to look at a Death Guard list by my friend Twitch.  It falls into what I have been messing with as well and I think it has some merit for future events.  I have been enamored with the Center holding unit the Blightlord Terminators.  I think using Cloud of Flies, tons of models around them, and ways to build up your Pox Walkers can make for a pretty rough game on your opponent.  A lot of the current missions for ITC have central objectives so getting to the center and holding it is a good tactic to help win you the game as you grind it down.

Death Guard Battalion
HQ:
Typhus
Chaos Lord in Terminator Armor, Plague Bringer Relic
Elites:
Blight Lord Terminators X 10, Bubonic Axes X 10, Combi-Plasma X 10
Troops:
Pox Walkers X 20
Pox Walkers X 10
Pox Walkers X 10

Alpha Legion Batallion
HQ:
Sorcerer with Jump Pack
Chaos Lord with Jump Pack
Elite:
Noise Marines X 20, Sonic Blasters X 20
Troops:
Cultists X 40
Cultists X 20
Cultists X 12

Noise Marines are the other Secret Sauce in the Chaos Space Marine book.  Look for them to Infiltrate all day long and blast out chunks of Screens as needed.  I love the Terminators lately and think they are great Anchor unit to hold the middle, punish your opponent, and threaten multiple objectives.

Alright – a big shout out to all those guys who went.  I wish I had more vacation left to make it to one of these.  Maybe I will plan for it next year and see how the year falls.  Right now I just have LVO in the books and maybe ATC depending on how the rest of the team shakes out.  Until next time – Death to the False Emperor’s new Clothes.

~What do you think of the winning lists and which is your favorite?

  • Let the netlisting begin!

    • ZeeLobby

      Ah. The present day wargaming battlecry!

    • Spacefrisian

      They lack Alaitac and Biel Tann is bad…Even if the list has 2×20 guardian defenders for webwaystrike and dire avngers x6, cuz the interwebz said so.
      At least thats what i was told when i pointed that out to 1 asking advice.

  • I_am_Alpharius

    Hang on a minute…I am reading this correctly or am I going crazy? Are you telling me even after said list had been shown on the internet, for scrutiny, that no-one on the web spotted the issue with the Relic? And even when this illegality was realised, at the event, that he still got to play with an illegal list (human error of otherwise), with no changes or penalty – and then go to become the “winner”?

    I’d know how I would feel coming 2nd, 3rd or lower – down right cheated out of a fair experience. I thought competitive tournament players we suppose to “experts” at the game and “extremely” oifey with the rules…..

    • orionburn III

      First, go read Warzone’s explanation on their Facebook page of what happened. It goes into greater detail of what the issue was. This article doesn’t explain it fully.

      Second, the lists were published with only a few days to look over them. Having to try and sort through 100+ lists you’re mainly looking at what you’re facing. None of my friends went into great detail as to what weapons and such people would be taking.

      Third, Warzone is more party first and tournament second. Yes, people bring some really over the top lists. This was my first tournament and I had an absolute blast. I ran my Nids and had a great time.

      Lastly Warzone takes into account a ton of other factors into scoring. There are things like being best opponent, scores for painting, and the missions punish certain lists. Point is if you go in smart everybody really does have a good chance of placing high. There was a mission specifically designed to seriously punish spam list builds.

      • I_am_Alpharius

        So it was spotted “after the event finished” AND so what? That just says to me the tournament organizer didn’t have the guts to retroactively place a penalty on the player in question. How gracious of the chap to be removed from the scores that are reported to ITC for this event; although, it would appear that, he did not offer to relinquish the winner’s title and let the 2nd place player win!

        The organiser say they put a lot of responsibility on the players to know their army. Yet, seriously, the player manage to miss the first sentence of the heirloom? Literally the first three words of the Heirloom says is “CADIAN model only“. The codex makes it very clear in big bold letters that SCHOLASTICA PSYKANA unit can gain regimental benefit. For a ‘human error’ mistake to make, it pretty shocking.

        • orionburn III

          I’m not defending the mistake. I went with my own group of friends and had a good time. To my understanding this is the first year they’ve actually turned in results to the ITC. In previous years Warzone was simply a standalone event to have a good time at.

          He crushed things in the first 4 games and scored maximum points possible in all 4 of those. Only his final 5th game came down to a draw, which sadly was the final game and was against Chaos.

        • Ari Varey

          It does speak volumes that the player in question requested to be removed from the rankings, but the other players spoke out against it. His list wasn’t an abusive spam list. Dude had rough riders. Who has horses in 40k? I think his opponents also might have agreed that the relic mistake didnt win the game, but rather the tactics.

          Also the lists were open for everyone to see. I don’t get how more transparent they could have been to avoid this.

          • orionburn III

            The issue there is Warzone didn’t require relics to be listed in the published lists. We had to post the weapons, points, power levels, warlord traits, pyschic powers, etc. The relic thing got missed. I know they decided to turn in the results to the ITC during the final run-up to the event so maybe that helped through the wrench into the gears.

            I didn’t meet the guy but from what the others said he’s a good guy and they really don’t believe anying was intention. Of course the internet will say otherwise but is what it is. I would hate to have what I thought was a win tainted. That sucks to come out thinking you had a clean win and then realized afterwards your list was wrong.

            This definitely gets me to triple check my lists from here on out to avoid a potential mistake such as this.

      • I_am_Alpharius

        So it was spotted “after the event finished” AND so what? That just says to me the tournament organizer didn’t have the guts to retroactively place a penalty on the player in question. How gracious of the chap to be removed from the scores that are reported to ITC for this event; although, it would appear that, he did not offer to relinquish the winner’s title and let the 2nd place player win!

        The organiser say they put a lot of responsibility on the players to know their army. Yet, seriously, the player manage to miss the first sentence of the heirloom? Literally the first three words of the Heirloom says is “CADIAN model only“. The codex makes it very clear in big bold letters that SCHOLASTICA PSYKANA unit can gain regimental benefit. For a ‘human error’ mistake to make, it pretty shocking.

      • Spacefrisian

        Bad TO, should have spotted it end of story.

  • ChubToad

    It is at least, funny that the relic was very useful against the other two main Chaos lists. That’s the problem with these kind of things, once you detect a mistake, it is hard to trust anything the player did.

  • Fergie0044

    Maybe I’ve been playing too much Ultimate General, but that winning list really looks like a civil war era army! You’ve got stacks of infantry, your cavalry units and then supporting artillery.

    • Drpx

      Yeah, 39k years in the future we can blow up an entire planet but have nothing to deal with Napoleonic tactics that became obsolete in 1917.

  • Snord

    Show us photos of the actual armies and then we’ll know if they were any good. Anyone can field a bunch of identical units painted to the bare minimum standard.

    • orionburn III

      Visit the Warzone FB page for some of the armies on parade. There were so many stunning armies it was sickening. Yes, there were some that weren’t top tier painting but at least it was painted to a decent standard. A far cry from what I get out of my local club.

  • orionburn III

    Full explanation from Warzone on what the problem was:

    First, on behalf of The General Staff and Forge the Narrative, I want to thank everyone who attended and made Warzone: Atlanta 2017 the best Warzone yet. We do it for you, and we can’t do it without you!

    By now, everyone should have seen that the final results spreadsheet for Warzone: Atlanta 2017 has been published, and people can analyze that to their hearts’ content. We also collected data regarding which player went first in each game, but that information was not entered onto the spreadsheet at the event, and it will take a while to go through the scoresheets and incorporate that information for anyone who is interested in it.

    It is also important that we address an issue with the player and army list which won the Warzone: Atlanta Sigillite prize (our “Best Overall”). This issue did not come to light until after the event had been concluded and the dust had settled.

    For those of you who are not aware of the issue, Andrew Whittaker assigned a “relic” item to a character in his army which was ineligible to receive or use that relic. Andrew has publicly (on Facebook) admitted this mistake and apologized for the error. He completely accepts responsibility for the error, and anyone who knows or has played against Andrew probably knows and understands that “error” is exactly the appropriate term for what happened.

    This year, Warzone: Atlanta had a final “cut-off” date for new Codexes of October 28, 2017. All lists were required to be submitted one week later, by Midnight on November 5, 2017. We selected these (relatively-late) dates due to the rapid release schedule with which Games Workshop was pushing out Codexes, and our desire to accommodate the players’ wishes to play with “Codex” armies over “Index” armies. After the controversy at other large events earlier in the year regarding “illegal lists,” we also decided to publish the lists so that all of the eyes available in the Warhammer 40k community could see, review, and comment on the lists. Again, because of the rapid release schedule, we also changed our policy from relying on lists submitted in Battlescribe format, to allowing lists to be submitted as readily-legible PDFs.

    Warzone: Atlanta DID NOT require players to specify what “relics” were being used or assigned as part of the army lists which were submitted and published in advance. Indeed, we intentionally decided that players could elect to change, reassign, and add (or remove) “relics” from game-to-game. The fact that Andrew identified those relics on his submitted army list does not make his list “illegal,” but it also does not justify or sanction the illegal assignment of the relic in each game. That said, his improper assignment was not caught or identified by any person before the event or by any of his opponents at the event. Again, this does not justify it, but it does speak to the complexity and difficulty of quickly and accurately reviewing a list for “legality.” As with any other incorrect or illegal play that happens during a game, if it had been brought to a Judge’s attention before or during the event, it would have been immediately remedied and rectified. However, as with any other game at Warzone: Atlanta, if either player does not recognize or challenge an erroneous in-game action, there is no way for the Judges to actively intervene. If we actively disqualified everyone who made an error — whether it was forgetting to subtract 2 from their charge distance through terrain, to claiming a cover save when they weren’t entitled to it, to failing to keep units in coherency – the final round of Warzone: Atlanta could probably be held in my garage.

    Going forward, Warzone: Atlanta will follow the Games Workshop Grand Tournament Rules Pack more closely, and require relics to be specified on the army list and fixed for the entire event. It is also worth saying, as a judge and organizer for a large Warhammer 40k event, that the obligation to bring a legal and correct list is on each individual player. It is, as a practical matter, impossible for tournament judges to accurately review the number of lists submitted to an event the size of Warzone: Atlanta (let alone larger events such as LVO, SoCal Open, NoVA, etc.). The only solution of any merit is to “crowd-source” list review by publishing lists to the eyes and brains on the Internet, and following up with anything that gets spotted.

    Andrew has requested that he be removed from the scores that are reported to ITC for this event, so that his mistake does not diminish the results of the other players who participated. We have consulted with his opponents, and the overwhelming majority of them requested that we take no action whatsoever against Andrew.

    I am certain that someone out there reading this – probably someone who has never met myself or Andrew, and who has never intended to attend Warzone: Atlanta – will tear at their shirt and cry “favoritism” or “nepotism” or some other form of bias is behind this decision. They are entitled to their opinion, no matter how wrong, and nothing that I say will change their position. I know Andrew Whittaker, and I know that he did not “cheat.” He is not a “cheater.” He made an error, and we would not treat any of our players any differently for such an error.

    Hope to see you all again for Warzone: Atlanta 2018!

    • euansmith

      It sounds like people had a good time, which is cool.

      • orionburn III

        Hands down some of the best games of 40k I’ve ever played. Frankly some of the least fun games where against standard lists. My Nids ran around for a full game and survived the wrath of a Warhound Titan. Still lost in the end because it’s a freaking Titan, but I didn’t get tabled.

        I didn’t get stuck facing any of the super chicken lists and I’m thankful for that. Personally most of the Guard lists would have been way worse to face.

        • Ari Varey

          I think the fact that the guy was running AM with only 1 psyker is why people didn’t care. His list was a pretty fluffy AM list. I doubt anyone lost to him because of the relic choice, which is likely why no other players complained.

          • EnTyme

            It also sounds like he is an all-around good guy and people enjoyed playing against him. People seem to forget just how far common courtesy and friendliness go.

  • GoodOleBoy01

    While an extremely interesting article that gets high marks for not being a gorram video, I think it’s most important point wasn’t that an illegal list won a tournament, it’s the sentence that said “we need a better way to make lists.”

    GW, please take notes and release an all inclusive, updated with each change and definitive app for both Android and iPhone to make lists. I would gladly pay for the app, or even subscribe for $5ish per month. I thank you in advance, and do not require compensation for the idea.

    • orionburn III

      This is part of the problem. Figuring out points is even more complicated now. It’s easy to make a mistake jumping back and forth. Doesn’t take much to forget a guy is equipped with 2 of a weapon but only figure in points for 1. Supposedly GW was working on an army builder for 40k but haven’t heard any updates to that for months now.

      • I don’t really agree with that. People should probably just slow down and double check their stuff.

        • orionburn III

          It’s still easy to make a mistake on all the wargear options. In 7th so many things were factored into base points that you never worried about much outside of a heavy weapon option. Part of it comes down to what you’re focusing on. I’m guilty of getting caught up building lists in Battlescribe focusing on points and assuming everything is right, so yes, shame on me. If I make a mistake in the end that’s on me.

          • I’m not sure if your making an excuse or just a comment. I get it in a way sure. Burna boys, for example are 70 points for 5 not 85. I’ve been under points because of a simple math error and complacency. I don’t use battle scribe or anything like that I have no time or interest in them. Most of my units are set now days so some posted notes stuck in my book and every things easy.
            We’ve had a few army list apps or what have you over the years that had wrong, incomplete or editable data. Best to keep the book handy.

          • Severius_Tolluck

            Two words. Peer Review.

      • Spacefrisian

        Not realy just take points from points page and write them down than calculate while taking your time, triple check and your done.
        Apply relics and such afterwards.

  • AkulaK

    I still don’t understand how a tournament “pro” player failed to read those “Cadian model only” words. But if it was a mistake, recognised and accepted by everyone, fine then, at least there is no drama.

    We need an official list builder app or website. In France we have an unofficial one which works kinda fine… But i still manage to spot some points errors.

    • Puppet Soul

      the reason nobody cared was because he can stick the relic onto one of the manticores, and it wouldn’t have made any real difference in how the army was played.

      • Koen Diepen Van

        So manticores are characters now? we live in strange times

        • I_am_Alpharius

          He means use the Heirlooms ability on the Manticores.

          • Koen Diepen Van

            He does? strange way of saying it. Also the statement that you could arrange the units in such a way that it would make no diffrence is false . He either has to lose the ability to command his infantry units whit one of the company captains or drop the psyker for a captain in the cadia dectachent. The list would be worse ( if only a tiny bit) if it was forced to be legal.

          • 301stFeinminsterArmoured

            Or switch in some Multi-Laser Sentinels and add a Cadian PC.

      • I_am_Alpharius

        Really? Not much difference? Don’t be ridiculous! Re-rolling all hit and wound rolls of 1 for all ‘Cadia’ units with 12″ won’t have an impact? Re-rolling all failed hits and wounds against ‘Chaos’ units, in a tournament where over a 1/3 of the armies had the ‘Chaos’ keyword? Pull the other one.

        • Puppet Soul

          He could have rearranged his units to keep the relic with no impact on composition or how the army played.

  • Drpx

    Like that relic really changed anything. Guard are the anti-snowflake army.

  • sniperjack

    And it will be know as the ol’ Lasma List or Lama list 😉

  • Koen Diepen Van

    Why does it keep happening that illegal list show up in these types of articles. For the love of god the tournament organisers should check for those things. And if you find out that the list is illegal you apply a penalty. Doesn’t matter if the guy was nice. What if other competitive events ran like this . Oh you took doping at cycling we forgive you since you where supper nice about it.