KoW: Vanguard – A New Skirmish Game Arrives Today

The Kickstarter for Mantic’s exciting new skirmish game launches today!

Before the first charge, before weapons clash in brutal close combat, before the victor gathers the spoils of war, battles in Mantica can be won by the brave deeds of small, elite bands of warriors. These are the fighters relied upon by their commanders to identify tactical positions, light beacons to show their comrades the fastest route, or harry and disrupt their enemy’s vital supplies. If the raiding parties do their job well, the war is won long before the battle lines have even been drawn.

Kings of War: Vanguard is an exciting new fantasy skirmish game from Mantic Games. Two players compete for glory by commanding teams of elite fighters comprised of captains, weapons experts, support units, and grunts. Arm fighters with a variety of equipment to improve their abilities before they hit the field, and during the game by unlocking them in campaign play. The game is played on a 3×3 foot battlefield with high quality miniatures and 3-D scenery.

Kings of War: Vanguard…

  • Has a Campaign System – track the progress of your key members to earn experience and gain new abilities or improved stats
  • Has Innovative Rules issue special commands in the heat of battle with the unique Power Dice abilities, and gather your troops with the Group Actions

The game will come with new, high quality minis in dynamic poses – that can be used as heroes and elites in your existing Kings of War armies.

Kickstarter Launches 6PM (GMT), November 1, 2017

  • Whew. I was all like “man there just aren’t enough skirmish games out today” and then I saw this!

    • SundaySilence

      I was almost interested until I saw it was yet another KS. How are they not at a point where every release they make isn’t a KS?

      • Cergorach

        You mean direct sales, free advertising and a good marketing channel? Why wouldn’t they KS everything?

        • ZeeLobby

          Not saying Sunday is one of these, but it’s always humorous when people hate on an established company using KS. I actually really enjoy the process and insight, usually a BETA and such. Think it makes better games. (Sure there’s a lot of trash as well, but that’s why I prefer the established companies)

          • Xodis

            I think it works opposite to making better games. Anyone can throw together a crappy game, toss in some nice models and watch it just print money. Its like everyone has GWs capital and can make all the Dreadfleet they want.
            When a company has to invest their own money into the game and work to promote it and convince people to buy it, they generally make sure its a greatest version of the game they want to play.

          • ZeeLobby

            Except if someone did that, they’d never get successful funding or new games developed again via Kickstarter. In the end it’s up to the consumer to decide to kick or not, and going with established companies rarely produces games which are a total dud.

            Honestly I’ve played a lot of “self-invested” games which were pretty cruddy over the years. Much of what they miss out on is community input and changes, introducing broken or dumb mechanics that their target audience does not enjoy. It’s funny that your first example is a crappy game with nice models. Personally that is how I would describe a lot of GW games. Heck, in the past they even admitted to being model first and caring about gameplay. They’ve gotten better lately at taking community feedback, and fixing issues, but many of these we would have seen from the start during the KS progress if they did Alpha/Beta testing.

            I think this idea that self-invested somehow means more invested is a completely false one. Most people designing these games aren’t trying to make a quick buck. Most are trying to create franchises and companies they can grow upon. In the end using KS and producing a horrible game is a sure way to see your company die as the visibility towards the whole process is much higher. All of Mantic’s KS games are pretty loaded for the price. I find it hard to believe they’re making massive profit margins on any of them. What they are doing is opening the door for expansion and retail purchases down the line. KS may allow them more wiggle room to see what sticks, but I’d take 1 out of 3 wins from them rather than self-investing and killing the company.

          • Xodis

            I think you give “investors” or whatever too much credit. There are even games labeled from the beginning as “Bad game with great models” and people are OK with it. How is it funny when I actually led with an example of GW and Dreadfleet? No one is immune to producing bad games, but there is more effort involved behind the game when its your own money on the line. As much as GW produces “bad games” we know (and accept) its usually just a ploy to push cheaper models for the main games.
            How much Alpha/Beta testing do you think is done outside the KS creators bubble?
            “Most people designing these games aren’t trying to make a quick buck.” How do you know this? Because honestly they are continuing to use a medium that produces the same results “High initial KS sales, low retail sales”…then they make another KS and restart the process.

          • Richard Mitchell

            I don’t see how telling people, dictating, or controlling how people choose to invest their own money is even a conversation to be had. Animal Farm much?

          • Xodis

            Do you not understand the conversation? No one is trying to tell the people what to do with their own money. The conversation is directed towards businesses that supposedly want to build an established business that doesnt have to depend on crowd funding.

          • Richard Mitchell

            Never was a fan of the GW doesn’t do it argument. GW has a kickstarter it is called the stock market. You want to kickstart GW? By stock or more stock. That is not a judgement against GW, that is just a fact.

            There is this idea that these companies that kickstart are competitors against GW somehow. Which is funny, no one says mom and pop store X is a competitor to Walmart. I mean FFG? Sure. That is like comparing Walmart to Target. That doesn’t mean I am anti-Walmart, I do some of my shopping there. But there are differences between private, partnerships, and publicly owned companies and I wish people would do more research on the subject. And kickstarters allow small businesses (like PP, Wyrd, Steve Jackson Games, etc.) to put out products and have a presence in the market that they would not have.

            Like I said GW, PP, Wyrd, Mantic, are not the devil, maybe FFG (just kidding I play their stuff too). Each has a tool to make their products happen. For GW their KS is the stock market, for others it is KS.

          • Xodis

            Im not using the GW doesnt do it argument. Im using the “a successful wargaming franchise doesnt do it” argument.

            I understand investors and owners of stock is GWs “kickstarter” but that does very little to change my points.

            I havnt seen too many Wyrd or PP kickstarters (except PP’s video game KS which is a completely different market), only Mantic and all the other wargames that no one remembers or plays…..probably a connection there if you actually stop and think about it.

          • Richard Mitchell

            Sorry about that Xodis, I was talking about you specifically. Just something I noticed that usually comes up with this type of subject. Not being sarcastic or anything, I really didn’t mean to attribute that to you and I apologize.

            I think you are right, obviously companies in the same market compete but my issue is when people obfuscate the scale.

            GW has a corporate office, multiple GW specific stores, an outlet to move minis to general stores rather than hobby retailers, and warehouses around the world.

            With PP, Wyrd, Corvis Belle (probably spelt that wrong but you get me) this are usually 1 warhouse and casting building and a business office which is probably on the same site. They are in America so if you are near you can visit their offices or even google maps and see the sat. image. PP offices are actually located in a commercial districts version of a strip mall, most of these small businesses are.

            Now I am….a capitalist (bum bum bum!) so I don’t think either model is bad as long as each business model has it owns tools to compete and retain a presence in the marketplace. Making a quality product while having supply meet demand or creating a demand that wasn’t previously there should dictate the economic ecology not depriving tools from each respective competitor. The alternative breeds monopolies, which is not good for everyone. Monopolies incentivize business to put out poor quality products and leave consumers in a position to accept those products.

            Yes, all these companies are competing against each other but lets not obfuscate the scale. GW’s competitors are FFG and Hasbaro. And let me point out again. That is not a bad thing. From being a business that started out being run from a dude’s apartment to global competitor, you don’t get there by not being innovative. More people who are super hard core brand loyalists should take pride in having supported a product with that kind of story for 25+ years.

            I know I do, everytime PP or Wyrd put out a quality product, I vote with my dollar and with the collective dollars the consumers of those products create jobs in the U.S. We also help someone’s dream come true. We don’t usually see our dollars in these terms but maybe we should. Same thing with GW stores. Everytime someone buys from a GW store, congratulations you just helped someone have/keep their job.

            All I am saying is that KS and the stock market allow two different types of business to compete fairly in away that actually permits a David vs Goliath competition rather than just a full on Goliath curb stomp.

            If customers don’t like a certain product being KS, then they don’t have to support it. No one is forcing people to buy poorly made and marketed products. And let’s not forget, KS also funds many other products besides tabletop wargaming and any policy change would affect those too.

          • Xodis

            Im a capitalist as well, I do believe in a free and open market. Im not saying KS is bad as a business model, Im saying KS is bad for a business model that depends on a loyal fanbase to grow.

            I would agree FFG is a GW competitor now that GW is back in the boardgame industry and FFG is entering the wargame industry. I dont think HASBRO is a competitor though as they are favoring a different market.

            Im not advocating a policy change for KS or for any government action, that would be silly. Im advocating for Mantic and other businesses to change their business approach after they succeed in launching a new IP through KS, thats where you are getting confused. KS is a great way to see if there is an interest in your product, and to sell product. What KS is NOT great at is customer loyalty, building a brand, and making sure people get to use what they invest in. Thats where FLGS’s come in. KS businesses and a FLGS are almost antithetical to one another.

          • Richard Mitchell

            Ya, we may not see eye to eye on this issue but man our debate was really exhaustive. You laid out some really great points and I appreciate the time you put into the issue with me.

          • Xodis

            No problem, once we got on track I appreciate the conversation as well. Apologies for my initial rude responses directed towards you.

          • Richard Mitchell

            Its cool, there may have been rudeness on both sides but I always appreciate a logical argument for what it is and you had some good ones.

          • ZeeLobby

            Why is high Kickstarter sales low retailer sales a failure? Or a quick buck? I hate to say it, but we’re a very small and niche market. Gloomhaven and KDM both basically rely on their KS sales to sell product. I don’t see what’s so wrong with Mantic doing the same. If their latest KS fully saturates the markets interest in that game, then who cares if the post-KS retail sales aren’t huge?

            And let’s be honest. GW is given a ton more leeway and forgiveness than any Joe Blow putting out a game. It’s reached the Pinnacle of tabletop gaming fanatacism to be honest. I mean they literally said F the game, people will buy models on their own. To do that and not instantly crash shows how stable their devotees are. On the contrary, anyone who makes KSs that don’t deliver or fail to be good are widely ostracized by the community. There are plenty of people now who have written off Mantic and CMON Kickstarter because of even just a couple month delays in some cases. We both know that market loyalty is huge for glossing over shortcomings.

          • Xodis

            Mantic should care. As I explained earlier, poor retail sales means that FLGS’s are not going to stock them. If a FLGS isnt stocking the game, people probably are not playing the game there (sure exceptions exist) but when a new potential player shows up to the store and sees tons of merchandise for GW, PP, etc.. and more than likely players PLAYING those games…which game do you think they will invest in? My money is not on a game that doesnt have a presence there.

            Yes, GW has plenty of problems I dont feel a need to defend them, so set them aside and compare them to GWs rival…PP. PP is second IMO to GWs throne, but they also understand the effectiveness of a presence in the FLGS. Successful Kickstarters usually do not equate to a presence at the FLGS.

            The same way people gloss over GWs shortcomings, KS veterans gloss over CMoN, Reaper, and all the other KS Businesses and their flaws. The money saved is usually more than enough of a reason to still “risk” it. sure they might lose a backer here or there….until they hit KS goal 400 that includes something shiny and limited.

          • Richard Mitchell

            “Its like everyone has GWs capital and can make all the Dreadfleet they want.”

            I don’t really see a problem with this. If the marketplace wants a bunch of Dreadfleets, then that is what the market wants. If the market is bloated with Dreadfleets then those things will not be profitable.

            But if people want to invest their private or individual capital in a product then that is really their choice.

            Not my place to socialize or globalize the marketplace where entities outside of the public square choose winners and losers.

            And really this is not a new idea, KS just put it on the internet.

          • Xodis

            If the public wants bad games with pretty models, then sure, give the public what it wants. Lets not try to lie and say that those games are great though.
            We are not discussing the choices of a consumer, only what those choices lead to. Im all for a free market, but a free market doesnt always reward the better game.

          • Richard Mitchell

            I tend to do the same, or if its not establish I research the living heck out of it and take multiple reviews. Have to say out of the lest big players in the market Infinity, Malifaux, and Dark Age are amazing but I had to research the heck out of Dark Age before I went in on it. I almost went Wild West Exodus.

          • SundaySilence

            I don’t “hate” on established companies using KS. I do find it sad however. I thought KS was designed to give new up and comers a chance to crack the market in whatever field they were aiming to get into. How are new people supposed to compete against established brands? Mantic don’t need to be on there, they should beta test their products like everyone else and not overshadow the newer people on KS.

          • ZeeLobby

            Eh. New people’s games get picked up all the time though. There is plenty of room. It’s not like there’s 50 established companies on there every day. I can honestly think of just as many solo successful acts as established ones. Even the top selling gaming Kickstarter ever (KDM) started out as a small team. It’s just another avenue to reach your consumers. Honestly most tabletop games (that aren’t crap) get funded.

        • Xodis

          Because Kickstarters work against the company if trying to establish a growing player base. If youre just trying to peddle product until your next KS, then its a great idea.
          How many KS games sell well after hitting retail? Not many, especially when it comes to skirmish/war/tabletop games. Stores dont have ANY incentive to keep the game in stock since 75% (being conservative) of the player base already got it cheaper from KS. Those interested usually play it safe and wait for the inevitable next KS so they can get a discount as well. So now FLGS’s have more incentive to push other established games, so they can get sales.

          • Cergorach

            Most KS that I back generally end up in retail, some like Kingdom of Death: Monster are not as feasible for retail as most others.

            Part of the problem is the kind of people running a FLGS, a LOT are hobbyist first and business(wo)men none. These see KS as a personal affront and don’t stock those items because the KS stepped on their tiny…

            You know why I started a webstore 17 years ago, because FLGS weren’t stocking products I wanted, were either extremely late or had to special order stuff. If I have to special order stuff at my FLGS, why am I ordering there and not online? I stopped running the webstore because others could do it better and cheaper, no reason to continue that enterprise.

            I can tell you that Mantic wasn’t stocked by that many FLGS when they first released the elves and undead. Even ordering online was depended on which webstore you went to. I can totally see why they use direct sales through KS as their primary sales channel.

          • Xodis

            I think most KS’s end up retail somewhere, that doesnt mean its going to be successful at retail though. I understand also that KS works great for a niche within a niche like KD:M.
            I cant speculate on the type of FLGS owners you have met, but I can say I see the opposite. If these business owners didnt have a grasp of what is hot and follow the trends they wouldnt be open still (unless you lean on MtG because that IS printing money).
            You know why the FLGS wasnt stocking that product? Because it wasnt selling, if there was a demand it would be business suicide to NOT stock it.
            I can see why they STARTED with direct sales….but if they really want to grow (like I think we can assume they do) it doesnt make sense to continue on the same business model, its actually going to work against them if that is their end goal.

          • ZeeLobby

            I mean lets be honest, all FLGS lean on MtG. They can’t even lean on GW, which honestly dominates the tabletop gaming market. Multiple times locally we’ve had stores open focusing on purely tabletop gaming and ignore card games, and it never ends well. Card games, and MtG specifically, are just cheap to stock, easy to setup events for, etc. Our most popular local FLGS makes more money from drink and food sales on one FNM than they do in a week of any other systems sales.

            I’m just curious, but why would direct sales, and lets be honest here, online retailer sales, work against them? Honestly the majority of people I know buy minis from online retailers instead of local stores. I don’t see why that will work against them?

          • Xodis

            Not all, but sure a lot of them do.
            Honestly, because as I have said they community isnt going to grow. Games grow because potential costumers see other people playing them. If no one is playing the game, then its not going to grow the fanbase. Sure there are probably lots of people who own *insert game company here* games, but unless they already have an established group (which isnt likely to grow, at least not quickly) you probably dont get to play much. If you (who owns the game) dont get to play much…why would new customers join in, when they can instead buy into a game with more players?
            Buying miniatures to established games, isnt going to stop/hurt the game because its already established.

          • Richard Mitchell

            Sad but 100 percent true. We had a shop open up and it was supposed to be a tabletop wargame purest game store. Everyone in our area flocked to it who were super deep into tabletop games and the guy almost went out of business. He couldn’t make money off of GW either because most players are 1) making their big purchases from online store anyway 2) have been playing the game for 20 years and have all the models they could ever need so purchases are rare.

            Even he ended up included MtG and Heroclix. It is a sad fact but we are so niche that MtG, Heroclix, and Pokemon outsell GW, heck I bet they outsell they entire tabletop miniature wargame industry combined.

            In fact there is a new game store that ONLY does the different card games and Heroclix and they consistently rake in more players and sell more than the shop that started as a purest tabletop store. And I love that table top store, great tables, atmosphere, and setup. I don’t control the market however, it is not my mutant power.

          • Apocryphus

            The secret to success with MtG, Heroclix, and Pokemon is cycling sets. Having worked at a game store and seen this all first hand, wargamers either buy new releases or make one purchase or so a month, because they either have it, or know they can wait on it. Collectible games practically require the best of the best from the sets to play in any OP event, and having run Heroclix OP before, all teams are the same figs or slight variations. You have to buy buy buy to get the power pieces, play for 6 months, the buy buy buy again because your old cards/figs are no longer legal. I don’t think any independent game store can lean on wargames as persistent income because tgey don’t encourage constant purchases, eventually there’s nothing left to buy.

          • lmn118

            I’m doing fine without cards, although GW sales is what is keeping me afloat and paying for all the dead stock from other companies….

            ….I should probably look into cards.

          • Richard Mitchell

            That is true, there are two shop owners in my town (Sun City Games and Military Gamer Supply shout out) and the owner and his son are total business people. They stock what sells, if you build a scene they will stock it, ask for feedback, and they don’t engage in drama. But many are hobbyists first business people second.

          • Richard Mitchell

            Are you saying that there should be a governmental ban on KS to prevent people from choosing what products they wish to invest their money in so that other businesses are protected. I am confused on the point of this conversation.

          • Xodis

            Are you incapable of comprehending the actual conversation of just going to continue to troll with Strawmen?

          • Richard Mitchell

            Just trying to get feel for what your solution is. You say you hate companies using KS, you give reasons, but you don’t give any solutions. That is either trolling or the directionless cynicism. I admit the reality for what it is and then move on. Nobody is forcing you to KS anything. But what is your solution for people who choose with their own money to KS a company’s product? Marketplace is the best solution for business. How many years did directionless cynicism help GW change? Surprise, surprise, it took people actually voting with their dollars. Money talks man…money talks. If the business practice didn’t work and customers were dissatisfied, kickstarting product wouldn’t work.

          • lmn118

            Well KS could enforce their own rules, its not a direct sales channel but is being used as such.

            Secondly it doesn’t give the company a very professional image, especially an established company like Mantic. It gives the impression that the company doesn’t really know their market very well and so don’t know what will sell. Or that they can’t manage their own finances.

            Thirdly it leads to complacency and ignorance. Complacency on marketing their product, ignorance on how to correctly fund, produce and deliver their product. Hawk I’m looking at you.

            Lastly it doesn’t help independent stores, the people who do a lot of leg work getting these products to people, marketing them and developing communities.

            Take the Walking Dead, really popular right now, sells well but how many core sets have I sold since release? 2. The other 8 have been sitting gathering dust for a long time. Although at least Mantic offer Retailer pledges.

            A lot of customers are dissatisfied, but I imagine for a lot of people it is like an addiction, it is almost like gambling and I bet the psychological reasoning is the same.

          • Richard Mitchell

            Well if you are dissatisfied then stop kickstarting a company that burned you.

            If it wasn’t beneficial for kickstarter then they wouldn’t do it. And we have to keep in mind there are other kickstarters non tabletop related that would affected by your policy.

            We also need to stop with all the addiction nonsense. That is super loaded language. To qualify as an addiction it must be a substance or behavior that is detrimental to your quality of life. I am pretty sure that there are some sad humans who bankrupt themselves and their families, lost and ignored their families on non-kickstarter and kickstarter minis. I have seen it and it is SAF.

            I mean you can’t just reek “Addiction!” and stop people from investing their own money in toys.

            Basically there is a market, Kickstarter, companies, and consumers benefit from it. If they didn’t one of those parties would not use that business model.

          • lmn118

            You clearly have no idea what addiction really is or the mechanisms involved.

            Much like Xodis had said you post nonsense without taking into account what the person is saying.

          • Richard Mitchell

            I guess I should have thrown my points in the realm of abstraction rather than a realism.

          • Xodis

            I did not say that at all….seriously what comments are you even reading?

            I said that if a company wants to just unload tons of product and doesn’t care about building their player base then KS is an excellent way to go. If they DO care about the player base then they need to push retail sales so that FLGS’s will get involved and support them. Currently, most FLGS stores dont support many kickstarter games because no one buys them.

            So quit trying to make stuff up and actually read what is typed, because I posted this same solution above.

          • Richard Mitchell

            Or product gets sold and then it builds a player base in the area, social networking allows those players to show up to a store, and then the FLGS supports the growing scene. This is how Deadzone took off in our area. So the logic is not really sound because none of these systems are closed off from one another. They are interdependent. I mean I am not a fan of going off into the clouds so that is about as far as I will get on this conversation.

          • Xodis

            That is a possibility, Im sure thats how most of the groups for relatively scarce games are formed, but its hardly as dependable as a good (and no not every FLGS is good) FLGS. There is a reason that even today MtG and D&D and all the popular games still happen quite often in a FLGS, because it spawns more players and because being able to handle, see, and possibly test a game in the store is a much bigger factor in sales. Then you have that your community might only have 2-6ish players that invested in the KS. Those players have ALL the goodies, and they are asking other players to start fresh at retail price…..or wait until the next Kickstarter inevitably happens. So what happens when 25-50% of those potential players decide to wait? The game grows stale in the interim, possibly causing them to change their minds.
            Im sure there is a success story for most Kickstarters somewhere, but for the companies that like GW, PP, FFG, etc… we have seen how successful they can be by doing things the way I believe a company like Mantic should.

          • Richard Mitchell

            You bring a good point with this. I like that PP, Wyrd, etc. which are private companies do not kick start EVERYTHING. And they explicitly point out that they are running the KS because they don’t know what the success of the product will be and can’t gamble on it but they want to make it anyway, or its appeal would only be marketable to fans of their IPs.

            When Mantic KS every item it makes you wonder if their products are successful or maybe their audience base is so limited that they pretty much have to be a direct order company. I think with Wyrd they did do a retailer version for the Other Side and I can see that as an example of KS working hand in hand with retailers. But you do raise some interesting points. This is probably why, though I am excited about Vanguard, I won’t be participating in their KS. The reliance on KS by Mantic hurts their credibility. Not attacking the company itself, my son and I play Deadzone, I am just talking about optics in general.

          • Apocryphus

            That seems a bit extreme. Xodis is just illustrating a point, not telling anyone what to do. A close friend of mine owns a game store and he’s had KS games lose him plenty of money in the past. Kickstarter games tend to have a small and, unintentionally, exclusive community, they hurt any FLGS that tries to carry them inevitably.

        • Richard Mitchell

          True, KS does have a good support model for getting product bought and then see if it is popular enough to give continue support to. I don’t think people understand how thin the margins are in the miniature game. One bad release and its over.

      • Kickstarters are pretty much prime time if you have a decent following. It makes total sense for them to ride the KS train all the way to the terminal.

    • Richard Mitchell

      Ya there are a bunch out there. Even skirmish is becoming a pretty competitive market. I don’t know about you Auticus but I really really really miss a good 15mm> sci fi/fantasy game that is affordable. BattleTech should kick start some new army sets (lance, tracked, and infantry).

      • We have a solid battletech group in my city. I do wish that they’d update their model line. I think it could do well.

        • Severius_Tolluck

          I just wish people played it more around me. Loved campaigns..

          • Yeah thats what they are doing now. They have a solaris arena campaign going and a Jihad era campaign going now. I have a ton of mechs just no time.

          • Severius_Tolluck

            we have like 5 people that gather once a month 45 minutes away from me. However they seldom ever play actual missions or campaigns, they do weird stuff. Like this Halloween bash thing this month where they fought goblins and such and fought in color grided areas.

        • Richard Mitchell

          Honestly they really just need to stop dealing threw IW’s, they are just so expensive.

  • euansmith

    I shall be poised. I think that Star Saga is supposed to be turning up some time soon.

    • ZeeLobby

      Yeah man, can’t wait! Just for the sheer amount of goodies!

      • euansmith

        My mate’s copy of KDM arrived. We’re used to large boxes from kickstarter; but the KDM box is a veritable behemoth.

        • ZeeLobby

          LOL. Yeah. I think mine comes today, and I know I’m just woefully unprepared.

  • ZeeLobby

    Hey, I’m always open to more options. It truly is a great time to be a tabletop gamer!

  • Simon Chatterley

    that render does looks awesome. I have a lot of love for Mantic. They do try.

    The model needs to match that image now though. Wyrd are able to do it very well now and the render nearly always matches exactly in quality.

    Mantic has sadly been a bit behind in mini quality

    • ZeeLobby

      Agreed. The renders are great, but the final product can be rather meh sometiems. Here’s to hoping they do well on this one. I wonder if the scale is the same as KoW. Feel like it should be, but at the same time larger scale would definitely help the detail.

      • Its supposed to be usable in KOW armies so I’d think the scale should be the same.

        • ZeeLobby

          Yeah. We’ll see I guess. I mean I do like a bunch of their Sci-fi sculpts, and their fantasy stuff has gotten better. But sometimes their stuff is just overly grotesque, lol.

  • Heinz Fiction

    Nice to see they didn’t blow their fictional world up to prepare for their skirmish game…

    • Randy Randalman

      They would have blown it up if that fictional world were in the red for 5+ years and had dwindling player turnouts despite consistent product pushes.

      Lol Still this mentality that GW just unjustly blew up WHFB when it was thriving and in high demand is hilarious. Goes to show just how little the bulk of the player base is truly aware of. But go ahead… Keep telling yourself that’s what happened. Especially now that AoS is doing bigger numbers than WHFB ever did.

      • Hagwert

        To be fair they did nothing with the setting for 10 years while reducing the style of play to a single massive battle form . They then put vast amounts of resources into AOS and once the new regime was in place they had the sense to create multiple ways to play in the new setting from skirmish and warband up to mass battle . That’s why AOS is doing better than WHFB in it’s final years , not because the old setting was poor and the new one is so much better .

      • Adam James Osborne

        > Ever did

        LOL, no.

        In recent times, yes. Ever? No.