40K: Obliterators & Lord of Skulls: Chaos Two-timers

Hail Chaos! Check out what you can do with the Obliterators and the Lord of Skulls now!

Everyone knows Obliterators and Lord of Skulls are loyal followers of the Chaos Space Marines.  Folks have been putting them in CSM lists for a while – but with the arrival of Codex Chaos Daemons – something very unusual came up about the two units.

See if you can spot it:

Note the Keywords:

Alone in the entire CSM codex, Obliterators and the Lord of Skulls have “DAEMON: as a Faction Keyword.  Other similar units such as the Helldrake, Maulerfiend and Warp Talons have “DAEMON” in the lower Keywords line.

I’m uncertain exactly why GW decided to make only these two units have “DAEMON” as a Faction Keyword but they did.

Hello 2nd Job – Chaos Daemons

Which means these two are units you can freely use in Codex Chaos Daemons armies. You won’t have to use them in a separate detachment, and with the “DAEMON” Faction Keyword they are compatible with the Daemonic Loci special rules. Handy! So these guys can work for the CSMs by day and the Chaos Daemons by night.

~Have at it.

 

  • Nick Locking

    Does mean you can take the Obliterators (fairly reasonable) or the Lord of Skulls (totally unreasonable) in Death Guard armies?

    • Marcet

      Only if they appear in the DG codex. Page 116 of the CSM codex says that no model from that codex may take the DG, TS or fallen keyword. Obviously Cypher and the fallen in the CSM codex are exceptions to this.

      • RAKSHA

        It didn’t say that what is say you can’t give DG or Tsons different legion keyword because they are belong already to different demon gods..similarly to imperium key word you can still have space wolves with guliman because he is imperium but his rules will not work for SW..problem is GW don’t explain this rules properly and always we will have some problems to use them correct way..for me you can have obliterators with demon faction nurgle to..so if you take detachment you can add them to DG army like normal demons…

        • Marcet

          Have you read page 116 of the CSM codex? Last paragraph first column. I’m not sure what you mean but that paragraph says that nothing from the CSM codex may be given the DG, TS or Fallen keywords.

          I see I expressed myself poorly, this may have been a misunderstanding on my part. What I thought the OP meant was: can I give the DG keyword to the Lord of Skulls or to obliterators.

          The answer to that is: no, you cannot unless they appear in the DG codex because of the limitation presented in the CSM codex. You will have to put them in a separate detachment if you want to keep legion traits.

          Apart from that you can easily add them to a DG army as a separate detachment if you want to keep legion traits.

    • RAKSHA

      Not in death guard but if you make detachment of nurgle demons then those guys can go with them I think…because they have demon faction keyword

  • Munn

    0+ save nurgle oblits

  • Kabal1te

    Do mutilators not have the demon faction keyword too? I know everyone forgets about them.

    • Marcet

      They have not, but unless it’s FAQ’d or changed in the daemon codex it doesn’t matter whether the daemon keyword is on the faction row or the regular row. Page 5, second column, first question of the designer’s commentary is pretty clear about how keywords work and interact. It even uses daemons as it’s example.

  • eMtoN

    I could have sworn I saw something like that in one of the other books too. Now I’ll have to go through everything and check. :/

  • defensive

    2CP to bring a Lord of Skulls back if killed by Grey Knights.

    Thank you GW for this most thoroughly thought through codex.

    • Kabal1te

      Between the lack luster codex and this I think GW just doesn’t like grey knights, they might step on the toes of the new custodes as the super elite army of the edition and GW can’t have that.

      • defensive

        If they also get hit by the smite nerf, while already having a nerfed version of smite, I think our local GK player might throw his army out a window.

        • Solvagon

          You can not complain about the Daemon Stratagem and the GK “nerfed” Smite at the same time. All your troop units being able to Smite Daemons at +1 with an automatic 3 mortal wounds with wound rerolls and 1d3 dmg weapons with +1 attack in cc is far more brutal than bringing one unit back with a stratagem.

          Also, just play 600-700 points of IG Gunline and have 2 Dreadmasters deepstrike as soon as your opponent makes a little mistake while trying to wipe out your shooting. Suddenly GK doesnt seem as bad. No other army gets 3++ monsters with psypowers, good shooting and good cc. Also neither Chaos nor Imperium factions are balanced around playing them as stand-alone forces.

          PS: All GK troops can manifest normal Psypowers as well. There is literally no reason to whine about GK balancing.

          • defensive

            It’s literally the one army they are supposed to be good at killing.
            Against every other army, they are mediocre, to downright bad.
            And 2CP to bring a unit back is HUGE.
            Oh, you killed my 600pt Lord of Skulls? 2CP now he’s back. You kill him again? 2 more CP.
            Considering most armies have at least 6CP, that’s 3 times you can bring him back, if you manage to even wipe it out from full wounds every turn, which is no mean feat itself.
            Dealing 3 mortal wounds a unit is rendered just moot, when for a measly 2CP, you can just bring that unit back next turn no worries.

            And saying that NDKGMs are OP compared to a goddamn IG gunline is just laughable. The gunline will just wipe the floor with them. I’m not entirely sure what mistake can be made if the whole tactic consists of sitting there and shooting at whatever comes close.

            At most you could argue that this brings them in line with Daemons, making it a fair fight.
            And in that case, why are they gimped against every other army out there, just to be awesome against daemons, if they aren’t even going to do well against them?!

          • Volcifar

            Thank you for saving me the time to type this. You hit the nail on the head with a sledgehammer. Glad I am not the only one who thinks this.

          • Bootneck

            I don’t know what games you guys play but I see so many players that think that winning is just down to alpha strike or having unkillable units etc.

            These things help but you still need to play to the objectives which can more often than not be a bigger decider.

            Granted the LoK is a threat, but its also imo overpriced and pretty mediocre for a LoW unit.

          • LankTank

            We all know Lord of Skulls and Oblits are going to have the daemon removed from Faction and inserted into standard Keywords. GK players had a horrendously overpowered codex. I still see players wipe the floor using GK. Admittedly these have not been full GK armies, just a detachment, but they still rock up and hit hard, especially with the prominence of Daemon models in play these days. And before you then bleat about the GK codex not being good stand alone, you have literally been complaining about a Chaos soup tactic so nothing wrong with an Imperium one

          • defensive

            “Horrendously overpowered”
            I suggest you take a look at the ITC results from 2017.
            Despite having a codex right away, grey knights are 4th from the bottom in average points.
            The top 3 average point winners are “Chaos renegades”, “Chaos”, and “Chaos Daemons”

            Okay fine, bring back a Bloodthirster every turn. Or a GUO. Or any of the FW daemons.
            Lord of Skulls is just one example.

          • LankTank

            HAD, not have. Think back to 6th ed GK. 2++ Ward Saves on Eternal Warrior multi wound prats with force weapons. I like the new codex.
            But again bring back a GUO or Bloodthirster, if they are playing a full GK army, it’s not like they will stick around for long. A completely Daemon player stands no chance against a full GK army but at least with this stratagem it evens a bit. and if either player is using multiple codexes (codicies?) then just make sure the last wound off said GUO or Thirster is not from a GK

        • Drpx

          If any army needs to be able throw smites out, its GK.

    • Drpx

      They really hate the boys in grey.

      • zeno666

        They can’t take primaris, so people shouldn’t play them 😉

        • Bootneck

          Most Primaris marines are lack lustre anyway, with the exception of Hellblasters and maybe Reivers.

          • zeno666

            I’m guessing GW will keep giving them point reductions in Chapter Approved until they become the “new” hotness 😉

          • briandavion

            with the CA points tweeks they’re actually some of the best options marines have now

          • Bootneck

            You have a valid point but there is a flip side to Primaris Marines. I have had this discussion many times, the trouble is they are multi wound models – yes they are cheaper wound per wound but they suffer the same problem that Tyranid Warriors suffered with in 6th and 7th.

            I play in a fairly competitive circle and as such most armies are geared for all comers, which usually means high damage/threat models against some lets say fluffier units.

            Against small arms fire Primaris are effective at mitigating them, but against multi wound weaponry they are poor.

            Instead of taking a wound you take off whole models. Compare this to regular space marines who are now more expensive. Any excess wounds are wasted which means they remain more combat effective for longer.

            10 SM unit 1 failed plasma sv = 90% remaining effectiveness.
            10 SM unit 2 failed plasma sv = 80% remaining effectiveness.

            5 PSM unit 1 failed plasma sv = 80% remaining effectiveness.
            5 PSM unit 2 failed plasma sv = 60% remaining effectiveness.

            I always overcharge, normally with rerolls so there is limited danger for the firer.

            Personally I tend to build my armies around plasma type weaponry which eats marines anyway in 8th they are the bane of Primaris.

          • briandavion

            Maybe but plasma is a lot more expensive then say… lasguns. and few armies have the option to take entire units of Plasma (one of the best units for that are primaris Hellblasters) but yeah obviously the “primaris vs tac marine” debate will depend on your enemy. And I’m of the opinion a mix is proably your best bet.

          • Bootneck

            I think also with the changes to force organisation there is less requirement to even select troop units.

            I see a lot of vanguard and spearhead detachments now – I quite regularly take 5 – 6 heavy choices because of the options units have over troop choices.

            Imo troop choice units are nigh on redundant unless they are cheap or have something special about them.

            Obj secure is useful but rarely does it ever come down to two basic units slogging it over one obj, in my experiences it always seems to come down to who can bring the best firepower 🙁

    • stinkoman

      lets count how many times that happen.

    • LankTank

      Then why would a player kill a Lord of Skull with a Grey Knight if they had 2 CP left?
      Unless he is a sole GK player but then he knew he had already lost =D
      Excluding the fact that you know… the WHOLE GK army is buffed against daemons?
      So you know what.. it IS pretty well thought out

  • zeno666

    Damn that Lord of Skulls model cracks me up everytime I see it.
    Its so bad >_<

    • LordKrungharr

      No way, man, skulldozer RULES!

    • Twil42

      Dr Robotnik spent ages working on him.

      • LankTank

        XD This!

    • Kabal1te

      Don’t make fun of the roomba of khorne. What else is going to clean up the battlefield of all those skulls and all that blood when the fight is over.

    • mgdavey

      The Khornemower

  • Bigalmoney666

    Errata in 5…4…3…

    • LankTank

      Yup. Again it’s going to be hard for me to get my Nurgle Oblits into a good detachment. In all honesty I NEVER noticed they were Faction Daemons XD

  • Marco Marantz

    TBH Daemons have almost no ranged weapons in their entire codex, apart from Tzeetnch stuff and Skull cannons.