Fixing Slow Play & LVO’s Hot 40k Factions : Chapter Tactics



PeteyPab and crew go over LVO’s Faction Usage Stats  and have some choice words for combating 40K slow play.

Chapter Tactics is a 40k podcast which focuses on promoting better tactical play and situational awareness across all variations of the game. Today PeteyPab, Val, and Incontrol go over there LVO experience and have some choice words for combating slow play in the 41st millenium. Also, PeteyPab breaks down the Faction Usage Stats for the LVO, and Australia’s largest 40k tournament ever and also looks at the most interesting lists from both tournaments.

Show Notes:

  • I would like to thank the sponsors of today’s episode, The guys from the Flying Monkey Con and the gents who run the Barrie Bash. Check them out if you want more of your tabletop gaming fix!
  • Chapter Tactics is back! With Weekly episodes and a lot of tactical insight, this is your place for all things 40k in 8th edition.
  • Check out the last episode of Chapter Tactics here. Or, click here for a link to a full archive of all of my episodes.

Need help with a list idea? Got a rules question? Want to talk tactics? Then email me at… 

 Please do not send an army list in a format such as Army Builder, send them in an easy to read, typed format. Thanks!




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  • Brian

    Chess Clocks

    If you are going to have a serious tournament, ensuring a player only uses up to half of the available time is one of the first steps. It’s really not that hard.

    • Valeli

      Agree with the sentiment of that at least, but in practice it seems harder to apply chess clocks to 40′ armies where one player might have a few Knights or few dozen custodes, while the other has hundreds of orcs/guardsmen/gaunts.

      Otherwise you’re just discouraging those large lists (which makes me sad since, personally, I far prefer seeing them over the super-elite lists).

      … Unless time in general could be raised. Add an extra day into tournaments or something. But that’s probably not at all practical.

      • David

        Wouldn’t it be easier to lower points while maintaining time a 1500pt hoard has a quarter less models and will still play like a hoard comparative to other armiea and from experience that plays more than 25% faster as you spend less time racking them up

        • markdawg

          Lower points has zero effect slow players are not honest brokers that just have too many models to push around the table.

          I hear it all the time that people say nobody intentionally slow plays. Nothing could be further from the truth.

          • David

            So lowering points lowers there model count giving them less models to push round the table.

            International slow plays are rare but it is certainly more easy to see the real offenders when 1/3 of your games are pushing the clock

      • Brian

        The real question we need to answer is: does the time allowed for an event need to be sufficient for ANY legal list and ANY level of skill? If I am a slower player and I like to play with an army of single model units of Inquisitorial Acolytes, do tournaments need to provide enough time for me to make it through round 6?

        The ONLY thing a chess clock does is limit a player to half of the allowable time. I can’t think of another real way to claim that a tournement match was “fair” without making sure one player did not get more time than another.

        The time limit of each round, set by the tournament format, is what constrains the possible armies. And maybe the limits do need to be increased to allow for more armies to be viable. But that doesn’t have much to do with how we measure the time.

      • marxlives

        Other games have chess clocks and have elitist and horde builds as well. Tailoring your list, or knowing your army is all part of the game. As you include round limits (games must end by round X) and also have solid scenario play. I know 40k includes objectives and scoring scenario play but if the scenarios suck and everyone just resorts to kill the other persons army because scoring is effectively useless, yes chess clocks won’t work..

      • eMtoN

        I disagree that the time should be adjusted based on army size. Either you can play your army in half the time or you can’t. If you can’t then you should reevaluate what army you take to a tourney.

        Those that say the time allotted should be different between the two players always fail to take into account horde vs horde. In that situation both armies are only going to have half the game time anyway. And at this level it should be expected you know how to deal with that.

        And, for the record, I have played against Knight armies that intentionally tried to slow roll. If I can move/shoot and assault with a 80+ model count army faster than someone with 3 knights then there’s a serious issue here.

    • Malisteen

      use of chess clocks gets awkward with player activity going back and forth within the same turn. But yeah, this is probably the best way, even if it would heavily discourage hoard armies.

      • Brian

        It’s not actually that bad, the times I have tried it I have enjoyed it. But it does take some practice. Your point that it would discourage hoard armies should really be directed at time limits in general. If your play style and army take more than half the allowable time for an event, then your build was incompatible with the event format. We all have to play within contraints.

    • marxlives

      You say that but then people will say but we need quantum analytics to figure out how much time each individual figure is allotted when compared to opposing miniatures.

    • Carey_Mahoney

      And for the list building stage: Cheese Clocks.

  • markdawg

    First off you need a 15 minute meet&greet/Deploy time before the round starts. I think a good thing to try before you mandate chess clocks would be.

    A rule where no player may exceed a set amount of time in his player turn. Say 25 minutes and if he/she does its hard dice down. From that point on they would be hard dice down with the remainder of the time divided in half for the rest of the game.

    • Malisteen

      the wealth of abilities that let one player interrupt the other’s turn, from esoteric command abilities to alternating melee activations to the bog standard rolling of saving throws means turn-based time limits like this probably can’t work. At least with chess clocks you can hit the clock to the opponent to roll saves, and they can hit it back to you after they’ve removed the necessary models, and so on.

    • David

      So someone spends 10 minutes doing there saving throws it encourages unsporting players to play slowly in there opponent’s turn

      • markdawg

        Yes I realize this can happen if someone is doing that you can call a judge. All I’m saying is if you don’t want to go full on chess clock this can be implemented and I bet you games would finish.

        We need to put a stop to this BS where a guy takes an hour and 15 minutes to deploy and do his t-1 because he had to be precise in where he was placing stuff.

        This puts a stop of any one player getting to far out of hand. If you want to buy chess clocks and use them fine but in my mind we just need to stop gross abuses not monitor every second of a game.

        • David

          I get that its annoying I had a player at an itc event take over an hour and half to deploy and t1. However the problem with chess clocks is they punish certain builds heavily and I think the game is better and more varied with those builds in it.

          Lowering points accomplishes the same thing though becaause if he has half the model count its going to take half the time to deploy-unless he is stalling. However if he is stalling its now more overt

          • Brian

            I think what you meant to say their is that ‘time limits’ punish certain builds heavily. If your build takes more than half the allowable game time to play with, then your build was incompatible with the tournament format. Nothing to do with how that time is measured. Currently we give a bonus to players who eat up more than their share of the total time, rules wise, when they should have a penalty.

          • marxlives

            Comps punish certain builds, every tournament has constraints. Chess clocks is actually the most fair one without directly telling players what they can and cannot take.

    • marxlives

      I agree but it doesn’t discourage slow play after deployment.

  • Clocks. Area has been using them for years now. It stops this garbage. There is no system that will be 100% fair to everyone, so if you like horde armies, learn to play faster. Get movement trays. Things like that.

    • Drpx

      This. It’s not like you have to space them out anymore to avoid templates.

    • marxlives

      That is true, the detrimite to hordes is that your army is going to move very mechanically and your tactics will be very rigid. Things like movement trays can help. But the benefit to horde armies is numbers on the table. With elite armies you have more time to think through your moves, to have organic and flexible tactics, but you lack numbers on the table. In a way, clocks would force players to….gasp play the armies as intended in a tournament setting? Auticus you got to stop spreading this nonsense.

  • bossdakka

    chess clocks. so easy. If the only reason youre playing a horde is to slow play then dont play a horde.


    A clock helps fix this to an extent
    overwatch uses up time however
    So if your a horde army attacking overlapped drone spam or guard with multiple ranks the opposing player can slow you down in your own phase slowly rolling dice
    There are multiple issues with this
    I’ve thought of many options
    There are few options to run this that do not disadvantage an army
    Unless u drop points
    1500 points you will finish ya games
    You cannot limit army model size – Army composition

    Horde armies can play fast
    You move models fast
    U roll using GW dice app which can help speed wise

    Both players should play fast n fair
    Part of points scoring should be speed of play
    If you don’t play fast enough you score low or 0
    Speed of play / army composition etc 40% of battle score
    People will play fast else will lose points
    Same applies if people playing spam ynari net lists
    0 score there
    Make ya own original list that doesn’t use broken rules/units
    People scoring low for no reason (strategically) can be challenged by TO
    If someones made a good standard non spammed list and plays fast 30-35% Score
    40% scores for fluffy good balanced lists and good sportsmanship and speed
    Speed and army composition go together