WFB 9th: Who Survives the Warhammer End Times?


A new set of rumors is doing the rounds regarding what models will still be standing in Warhammer 9th Edition.  Come see the survivors:

Here’s the new list:

via DakkaDakka’s WhisperofTruth: 2-15-2015

Oloh said:

List of current model kits that will be officially included in Warhammer 9th. He later posted that this list is accurate, but incomplete, meaning there may be additional kits that survive that are not listed, with the implication being that you should be OK to purchase and paint these kits (but not base).

Cauldron of Blood/Bloodwrack Shrine
Eternal Guard/Wildwood Rangers
Sisters of the Thorn/Wildriders of Kurnous
Witch Elves of Khaine/Sisters of Slaughter
Savage Orcs
Night Goblins
Night Goblin Fanatics
Mournfang Cavalry
Thanquol and Boneripper
Vermin Lord
Grey Seer
Screaming Bell/Plague Furnace
Hellpit Abomination
Coven Throne/Mortis Engine
Terrorgheist/Zombie Dragon
Maggoth Lords
Gutrot Spume
Chaos Spawn
Chaos Warshrine
Chaos Daemons
Grimm Burlockson
Josef Bugman
7 Champions and an army of light.

No more Lizardmen, but still playable.
No more Gnoblars/Skinks. They become Goblins.
No more Beastmen.

Elves become more Eldary, units take on aspects of their gods.

There are some units like the Blood Knights that I expected to survive into 9th, but the events of the books have made me doubt this is going to happen anymore. They were due to be updated. Plus it fits with the new merging unit policy, not sure that’s happening anymore though. Something similar happened to the Bone Giant, that being said I heard the Bone Giant was getting a redesign and a release some point in the future.

The game will become more Fantasy like, less cannons and warmachines. More magical. It’s not just the “Humans” that get empowered by the gods all factions will experience this.

Now compare and try to make out the trends from the last set of 9th rumors:

And Earlybird chimes in:

from the horse mouthfactions :1) Chaos : Demons + Beasts + Mortals
2) Elves
3) Empire
4) Undead
5) Orcs and Goblins
6) SkavensLizards are gone in space.
Dwarves survivors join the empire with the ogres.1) Chaos core : Warriors of chaos/chariot/Hounds
Demons figs will be kept as they are usable in 40k
Bye bye marauders, ungors, centigors, razorgor etc

2) Elves core : spearmen/archers/cavalry on horse
No more xbows
the 3 elves will blend in one faction
dark elves monsters are gone : cold ones, hydra

3) Empire core: Hallberds/Handgun/Canon
Some dwarves survivors and ogres are included
Imperial and bretonnian knights are merged

4) Undead core : Skeletons/Ghouls/Spirit host
bye bye bone giant, scorpion sphinx, chariots and everything too much egyptian

5) Orcs and goblins core : Goblins/Orcs/Black orcs
no real change for them

6) Skaven core : Clanrats/Plague rats/Rat ogres
no real change for them too


That list is basically most of the recent and oversized (ready pricy) WFB kits from GW. Interesting to note one old model who’s not on there – Archaon. Hmmm… Also of note is that zinger in the first sentence about waiting to base your models.  The chatter regarding WFB 9th and round bases continues.

Warhammer 9th Roundup

~ Say it with me…(it’s fun) LIZARDMEN IN SPACE!!!

  • SZMatheson

    Remember when White Wolf Publishing created the “new World of Darkness” and died a fairly quick but very painful pseudo-death?

    • Kevin Maloney

      A friend of mine has already compared the rumoured “bubble worlds” concept for the finale of End Times to Ravenloft.

    • Kevin Maloney

      A friend of mine has already compared the rumoured “bubble worlds” concept for the finale of End Times to Ravenloft.

    • JJ

      pseudo-death? WW went from one of the major RPG publishers to not having physical books available *unless you count Drive through RPG!* It only took them 10 years and a buyout to admit they had made a mistake.

      • Craven Moorehead

        What about Onyx Path?

        • JJ

          Onyx Path Publishing is a company founded in January 2012 by White Wolf
          Creative Director Rich Thomas. Following October 2011’s layoffs at CCP,
          CCP/White Wolf was no longer in a good position to do publishing in
          addition to the main business of making computer games. As a result,
          Rich founded Onyx Path Publishing to handle this business — AKA they licensed the IP (AKA Not White Wolf)

          Not that I’m complaining they are doing a fantastic job of re-working the systems. V20 and Wraith 20 are amazing!

      • SZMatheson

        At least we still have zombie-WW.

    • Txabi Etxebarrieta

      I don’t know about “died.” Their latest releases in particular, like the Blood and Smoke Chronicles (now sold as Vampire the Requiem Second Edition) got rave revues, they’re still able to pull $100,000+ kickstarters (Wraith the Oblivion got nearly $300,000 and Exalted 3rd edition got $685,000), and I still see their games played and talked about. They may not be the “titans” they used to be, but I rather like how agile they are. And Blood and Smoke supplanted Masquerade as my all time favorite RPG, for what that’s worth.

      • Cary Gould

        I used to be big into Werewolf the Apocalypse and Vampire the Masquerade both their RPG’s and CCG’s when they were a strong company. The fact they now have to use kick starter to push product says it all right there seeing as its generally intended for guys in their basements and garages to get a decent idea started. White Wolf suicided themselves changing their main story line in a direction their fans didn’t want to go.

        • Txabi Etxebarrieta

          Paranoia also recently did a Kickstarter, and Mongoose Publishing isn’t exactly small. Plus they are doing creative things with Kickstarter, like open development and having their kickstarter backers determine what content will go in their books (see: the ongoing Dark Eras kickstarter). While Kickstarter was designed for the “two dudes in a basement” crowd I think it’s pretty obvious at this point that their clientele is a lot wider than that narrow demographic. Whether that’s a good thing or not is another debate entirely, but the point still stands.

          I’m not arguing that they haven’t shrunk, or even that they made the right objective decision in going purely through DriveThruRPG. But I am saying calling them “dead” seems very inaccurate. No, they aren’t D&D big or as big as they used to be, but they are still a big name in the RPG world (which has always been pretty small all things considered). And personally, I think the quality of their work now is fantastic. Requiem clearly suffered from being the first product in a new direction and it suffered tremendously, but I do suggest reading the second edition. It really is an amazing book.

          • SZMatheson

            I also appreciate the revised version of the Old World of Darkness, and I recognize that there have been new products. That’s why I said “pseudo-dead”. If an established publisher gets bought out, lays off the vast majority of its employees, and relegates its flagship product to print on demand it can be counted among the undead. Fitting, really.

        • gordonschum

          The newest edition of Call of Cthulhu was a kick starter, not exactly a small rpg.

          • vlad78

            That’s not the point, GW ruled the fantasy wargame niche, becoming what mongoose is within the rpg industry would be a cataclysmic event for the company.

            Something GW might never recover from.

    • Guiltyskies

      There were a lot of other factors at work – a decline of RPGs in general, internet piracy, and the cost of printing books in Canada(this killed Guardians of Order).

      I like oWoD Vampire but nWoD improved every other WoD supernatural. The Werewolves became monsters again: not Captain Planet wannabes. Changeling: the Lost is one of the best RPG settings every made… Changeling the Dreaming was pretentious garbage. New ground was covered by Geist, Promethean, and Innocents. Mortals games became viable.

      • Thomson

        D&D 5th edition is the best proof that tabletop RPG is not dead, if you just listen to your customers and hire a bunch of really good game designers.

        I have no idea what 5th will become, but the core books showed that computer games did not kill print.

        P.S.: It is incredibly sad that GW does not look at that example to get an idea how to make tons of money with your IP

        • JJ

          I would agree with you, but I would replace D&D 5th with Pathfinder. D&D 5th was “crap we Screwed up Big time, rewind and fix this before we go bankrupt”

  • D. B.

    Not sure if rumours or proposed changes are bullsh*t.

    • Orodruin

      Maybe both!

    • Sh4d0wProph3t

      They’re BS. I’ve a little bird in the know – he won’t provide specific info due to valuing his career – but has kept repeating the mantra “Lizardmen are too popular to squat”.

      • SZMatheson

        Can we start chanting that loudly in public places, totally out of context, just to see the reactions?

        • Ross Gustafson

          How about the same with Bretonnians? DON’T MERGE BRETONNIANS WITH EMPIRE! SERIOUSLY!!!

          • Glenn Kitson

            To my understanding, Bretonnians are not very popular. However, they did used to be a very popular faction when their book was released many years ago – it’s just the lack of an update.

            Of course, I totally understand that 14 armies is too many for GW to support. At the very least Chaos and Undead can be combined. I also wouldn’t be opposed to an ally matrix like they have for 40K.

      • Azrell

        But not to popular to move to the 40k line.

  • David Dutton

    I honestly hope they dont change bases, frankly I like the square bases. If anything, they could be a little bigger since it was sometimes hard to fit all the models rank and file, but I enjoyed the strategy of playing games with blocks of infantry and cavalry. It gave it a life of its own. I know for some players it was more difficult compared to 40k because you usually had to think a move (or two) ahead. Plus, you could really get the upper hand in combat if you charged someone from the flank or rear. If it moves to round bases we might lose that emphases on movement.

  • Mason Carroll

    If this is true, I’m done. Not even selling my models, just going to throw them away. I’ve got 5000 pts of Brets that are…what? Yeah. Thanks.

    • D. B.

      Can I have them, then? They’d make a nice addition to my 15000+ pts of Brets (you read correctly). Think you’re disappointed? My 15-year love story with the hobby started with Brets and then Empire. The two nations getting most scr*wed over in these rumours.

      If all this true, I will boycott 9th. I will find myself a group of old-school players and continue with the hobby as in the olden days. Glad I bought a copy of every current army book.

      • Mason Carroll

        The Empire was my first love. I started about 15 years ago as well. That old metal Steam Tank had me hooked from the start. From there, I moved to Brets and then a small East Roman (Byzantine for the casuals…) human themed army using High Elf rules…and you know what? They’re useless now. No, I won’t sell. No I won’t tell people where my trash is. I’d rather burn them first. Words can’t describe my anger at this. It’s insane and unneeded. I woul just assume that GW go back to being the niche hobby it was. At least then we wouldn’t get a bunch of ham fisted fan fiction that people pass off as actual writing.

        • Benderisgreat

          If you have Grail pilgrims, I will trade you American Dollars for them, as I need more AdMech foot soldiers…

      • Pacifica SeaOttre

        How can they nuke the Brets? There is 10 years of pent up buying potential there….!!!!

    • JJ

      Can you tell me where your trash can is located?

    • Mr_Pickles

      Empire Knights with Lance Formation would essentially be Brets with better armour. Instead of only taking a Trebuchet, you can get a Rocket Volley gun thing, or a Cannon. There is nothing to stop you from putting peasants in charge of loading and firing the artillery (like they do with the Trebuchet). If Brets can keep a good chunk of their fluff/heavens focus intact, then I think Brets will come out of this stronger, now somethings may get called different names like with IG becoming AM. The change will be weird, but it’ll be ok too. If all goes well, Brets joining Empire would be like Black Templars joining Codex Space Marines. BT’s gains out-weighed the losses.

  • kafkadreams

    Lizardmen and skaven are getting squatted? Man, that will truly be the last straw with me for GW. I’d been finally priced out of 40k once the Cost / Fun ratio stopped making sense. I’d held on to fantasy because I had more fun with it. Lizardmen is my first and favorite WFB army. Take that away and GW can Squat itself into space.

    • Boondox

      Skaven were the army that attracted me to WFB back in the late 80’s and Lizardmen were my second army. Both of them were very different from the typical elves, dwarves, humans armies that everyone was stuck on back in the day. Now that Skaven and Lizardmen will be gone there’s no reason for me to bother with Warhammer.

      • Tyler Mengel

        Skaven are clearly not going anywhere, they just expanded their range with new models and updated versions of old ones. Clearly that old rumor is no longer accurate…

        • Orangecoke


        • amaximus167

          Not to mention that the first set of rumors basically said that all of the new Skaven kits would transition over.

        • Marky

          It’s just missing a return/enter/linebreak. Skaven are army 6
          lizzies r in space

        • Glenn Kitson

          NO ONE said Skaven were getting squatted.

          It’s just written wrong in the post.

    • Sh4d0wProph3t

      I think the copy and pasting went awry and somebody didn’t hit the return key. I highly doubt that the Skaven will be going into space with the lizardmen.

    • Red_Five_Standing_By

      The formatting is off. I think it is supposed to be:

      from the horse mouthfactions :1) Chaos : Demons + Beasts + Mortals
      2) Elves
      3) Empire
      4) Undead
      5) Orcs and Goblins
      6) Skavens

      Lizards are gone in space.
      Dwarves survivors join the empire with the ogres.1) Chaos core : Warriors of chaos/chariot/Hounds
      Demons figs will be kept as they are usable in 40k
      Bye bye marauders, ungors, centigors, razorgor etc

  • Deathwing

    Yay. So its looking more and more like all that money I spent over the years on my Brettonians should have just been burnt or given to a stripper for crack money.
    At least the dwarf and lizardmen players got new army books (TWICE) in the last decade. Welcome to the screwed over club.

    • D. B.

      As a 15 year Bret veteran… let us take this like Bretonnians. IF this is true. Elaborate rumourmongering has become a prominent aspect of the Art of Trolling, particularly in the Wargaming business. Remember the fake release plan list that had everyone in a tizzy a few years back?

      Should it truly happen – boycott 9th and find yourself some old-school players. And stand tall, Son of the Realm!

      • Nameless

        Unfortunately even as things stand at the moment I feel little to know incentive to get out my Brets. I enjoy list building but actually playing the army has next to no appeal: their not terribly costed on the whole so they can win especaily if the winds of magic favour them however the playstyle is pretty much early mass charge, did the enemy break? no. you lost, yes. you won

        there is no room for subtlety, no room for a late game come back. end of the story even if I don’t pick up 9th and avoid playing at the store my Brets will stay in their case.

        • Deathwing

          There were a few subtle tricks. One of my favorite was to fly 5 pegasus knights into the backfield gunning for warmachines or other light targets, only to wheel and charge in to the main battle line. Oops. Those arent pegasus knights. They were paladins…with the BSB. bye bye flank.
          I guess it will depend on how many brettonian units they roll into empire. Having pegasus knights, grail knights, and virtues available for empire grad masters (questing knights and inner circle knights could be merged, as can kotr and empire knights). Might be semi ok.

          • Nameless

            I just have to disagree. I personally feel that rolling the Bretonnian’s into the Empire is a huge mistake for several reasons.

            the empire stands to gain very little as they already core knights (and better ones now Inner Cirlce stay core). so they will gain at most Pegasus and Grail knights, and with the end times plot I doubt the grail knights will be a thing.

            secondly the theme. at first glance they have a lot in common with each other, similar alinement and race. however Empire is at its core an imperial civilization and has a lot more in common with elves than Brettonnia which is by its very nature Feudal.

            and tertiary I don’t want to have to think every time I deploy that I should have brought cannons, hand gunners and Pistoliers. they don’t belong in a Bretonnina army. the same goes for demigryphs and other monsters baring Pegusis and possibly Unicorns. (I don’t much like the inclusion of Hypogryphs to be honest)

            I don’t doubt that they will be rolled into one book, but I expect the amount of Bretonnia in the book will be 2 pages of background and 1 or 2 unit entries and Games Workshop expecting me to thank them for writing it.

    • D. B.

      As a 15 year Bret veteran… let us take this like Bretonnians. IF this is true. Elaborate rumourmongering has become a prominent aspect of the Art of Trolling, particularly in the Wargaming business. Remember the fake release plan list that had everyone in a tizzy a few years back?

      Should it truly happen – boycott 9th and find yourself some old-school players. And stand tall, Son of the Realm!

  • nekned

    Aren’t the ogres already know to join the Orc and Goblins in ET Thanquol and the leaks of ET Archaon? This set of rumour seems outdated.

    • Purple-Stater

      Indeed, they are. Or at least Grimgor gets a buff that works on all O&Gs plus all units from the Ogre Kingdoms army book.

      Interesting note: in China, ET: Archaon is selling for only US$28.

  • nekned

    Aren’t the ogres already know to join the Orc and Goblins in ET Thanquol and the leaks of ET Archaon? This set of rumour seems outdated.

  • mathhammer

    item 6 needs a linefeed betweeh skaven and lizards

  • mathhammer

    item 6 needs a linefeed betweeh skaven and lizards

  • Spiritof69

    I’m not familiar with every army, but for O&G isn’t that just the units you can buy in a store now anyway?

  • TheSlann

    Remember when I said GW is killing of lizards… well I can still play an outdated armybook.

    I write rules for Slann in 40k… screw you GW

  • Tyler Mengel

    I personally would take all of these 9th edition rumors with a grain of salt. How often have the rumors turned out 100% accurate and how often have they not? I think history tends to favor the majority of rumors not panning out.

    GW has gotten pretty good about locking down their rumor leaks to about a week or two out, sometimes a month out. I generally don’t believe anything until we see those blurry white dwarf pics.

    We will all know soon enough though, the Archaon book is only a few weeks out tops and I’m sure then ending of it will give a strong indication of what direction 9th will go in if not flat out say it.

    Just my 2 cents. I would not plan on throwing your armies in the trash just yet. I just cannot see them bagging entire lines. The amount of money they would lose when they already have the molds ready to go would be insane. Finecast models sure, but not the plastics. That list barely has any of the Dark Elf models in it when they just re-did almost the entire range in plastic.

    I know he said the list may be incomplete, but as someone else pointed out, I think he looked at what’s stocked on the GW shelfs and assumed those are the only models they are keeping around. Literally the stuff he listed for at least the Orcs and Ogres is what GW keeps in their store. Making something direct order only does not mean they are canning it. It only means GW has poor space management. My local store has so much room inside the store to fit more shelves. They could literally fit the entire range of all of their models in the store and still have room to spare, but choose not to. I think this is someone making a personal assumption and presenting it as fact.

    Have faith, Fantasy will pull through this, I am almost positive.

    • D. B.

      The thing that has me the most skeptical is that all those “sources”, always eager to give reasons for whole armies going away, always cite that “protecting GW’s IP is next to impossible with generic Fantasy armies”. Look at that list. If it’s accurate, it’s chock-full of, while gorgeous, models that are sold in an almost identical fashion by other gaming companies. Those “survivors” are very poorly chosen, if protecting IP was the only consideration.

  • Tim Currey

    I find it very interesting that this is still months away, but the Horus heresy plastics box set rumor for May only just popped up.
    On another “rumor” site they have a source telling them that fantasy may not be changing much at that the whole skirmish part is a seperate game. Perhaps to fill the “hobbit” void? According to them we will be “pleasantly surprised”

  • chris2155

    ahh BOLs rumors, ever so full of BS

  • Its fun to watch rumors like this get dropped, mostly fail, but a good chunk of the community takes it as a fact, writhes and wrings their hands while frothing at the mouth and screaming doom.

    • Cary Gould

      Yeah it’s hard to say what specific direction they will go. Though I think putting some of these armies back together can be a good thing.

    • Nameless

      I don’t think that it is necessarily believing these rumors in particular, but unless the end times is rolled back a lot of people are going to have armies that simply cease to exist.

      it is fairly natural for people to look for an outlet for the feelings of frustration at the time and money they have sunk into the hobby.

      • But right now there are no armies that ceased to exist but thats the popular myth.

        • Nameless

          well taking the events of the end times books into consideration, there’s not much of Brettonia left, nearly all the grail knights are dead as are 2/3 characters. the elves are now in a location that prevents access to the dark elf monsters as well as many of the high elf monsters. there are many non race countries that are now no longer there, as well as several empire cities.

          • Yes, things have changed, but that still does not mean that the armies are gone. That means Bretonnia is not a stand alone country anymore, but its knights still exist, especially when you consider the scale at which games take place.

            Special characters don’t make an army so their deaths to me are meaningless in terms of if an army is dead or not.

            Nearly dead also doesn’t exclude them from being present on the table. If my army had 10 grail knights before, it is not outside of the realm of possibility that more than 10 survived the end times.

            Non race countries destroyed or empire cities destroyed also does not invalidate an entire army book.

            Monsters roam the forests of the old world just the same. Not to mention that much of the elven race transported themselves to where they are now, it is not a stretch to consider that they brought monsters with them on their journey (those same monsters that were fighting on the old world before the end times which were brought forth by their elven masters)

          • Nameless

            You can make arguments against it and I certainly hope you are right, but I feel there is certainly enough evidence to suggest that players should fear the worst.

          • Thats just the thing – there is no evidence. Its people jumping to the worst possible conclusion and then treating it like its a fact.

            Then that myth gets spread to people that don’t know better (haven’t read anything for themselves) and it takes on legendary status.

        • CertainlyNOTmccarthy

          My squats beg to differ sir!

          • Sorry – that’s not what I meant =P I was speaking in the context of the end times not overall.

  • WestFargo Dave

    Sweet! This means I can still field my vaunted Gnoblar, Coven Throne and Gyrocopter army.

  • Zandur

    If this is true, then 9th will be a monument to GW’s stupidity. They spend a decade running their game into the ground, and then punish the players who stuck it out in their attempt to revive it.

  • Akempist

    I wonder if anyone has taken a look at the BOLS rumors of the past and compared them to how things actually transpired. It would be interesting to see how accurate any of the rumor mongering has been.

  • Spacefrisian

    if these rumors are true, than my wallet jumps even more.

  • Dennis J. Pechavar

    Meh, too much salt for me to get upset yet. Mind you I still like both 7th and 8th edition so I have no problem if they make a crappy edition, my friends and I will still get to play a game we love. Also like many others the stress of what GW does and doesn’t tell us has only driven us to play more and more Mordheim. Oh no I am enjoying myself with a tabletop game!

  • Spiritof69

    If GW is really bringing Horus Heresy to plastic, then it follows they are going full metal 40K and will be reducing or eliminating WHFB over time. Why does it follow? Because they have limited resources, in terms of design, marketing, manufacturing, etc. It’s bad enough they give those just plain silly Harlequins a full release, but now taking 30K out of FW and into the mainstream? It doesn’t bode well for anything else the company makes.

    Please note: Before the Flaming Neckbeards (kind of like a less talented version of the Flaming Lips) all check in to flame me, the previous statement was just my opinion. I have sold all my 40K stuff, because I think the game now stinks and shows no sign of improving. Meanwhile, I very much enjoy Fantasy. So, my opinions are biased. Deal with it.

    Second Note: I make these notes because I had the audacity to post in the HH thread about how I am boycotting FW because they went full Horus and dumped warhammer forge. The FN’s (see first note above) couldn’t handle it.

    Third Note: No real reason for this note, just obeying the Rule of Three.

  • Jay Shepherd

    Some of this sounds extra salty. Dark Elf monsters gone? I doubt that, especially with their newish Kharibdyss/Hydra kit. I foresee Warhammer going towards more monsters if anything else, less model commitment for new buyers. I do believe, however, that Lizards are screwed.

  • Guiltyskies

    I’m going to keep an open mind.

    The game is laden down with clunky rules from the 80’s and needs a facelift. The game’s scale has gotten out of control – who on earth has time to paint 50 guys for one single unit?

    • Well I started with historicals were units were about that big so, a lot of people have time to paint 50 guys for one unit since that’s how I’ve always known things.

      And my fantasy armies don’t have a single unit that is more than 30 models to include empire, chaos, and my dark elves. So its definitely not mandatory to run at such sizes.

    • Marky

      Funny, I was thinking that the scale of the game is out of control. All the models are getting too big; monsterous infantry /cav, dragon size characters, etc if it gets any bigger the scale will look stupid on the standard table (like 40k flyers and titans.. which only work in epic imo). Who on earth wants to carry 3 14″ high dragons to play on. 6×4 table when you could make the models smaller and play on a smaller table.

  • Billy_mx

    *Michale Jackson eating popcorn

  • Shandwen

    The rumor mills have fed on this “apoc for fantasy”. The only thing that they ruined 40k by adding parts of apoc. These rumors are a poor attempt at causing clicks. If they end up true ill be done with fantasy, and so will many others.

  • Jay

    This would push about half of the people I know who play WFB to quit forever.

  • Chris. K Cook

    Anyone else thirsty after all the salt they took with this?