8th Edition: The Great Leveling

Everyone is freaking out about the obsolete codexes – but you should be jumping for joy!

As I talked about last week – Warhammer 40,000 hasen’t seen a “reboot” with a new rules system since the move from 2nd Edition to 3rd back in 1998.  Thats 19 years back and I’d wager the vast majority of current players weren’t playing (or born) back then.

So let me tell you that happened then and what will probably happen now based on a couple of GW’s past behaviors.

 40K 3rd Edition Jump

2nd Edition had a whole set of softcover full sized codices that also went the way of the dodo when 3rd arrived. You can see them here:

Also made obsolete – back in 98. Gamer tears were shed.

What they did back in 1998 was dedicate the last 100 pages of the 3rd Ed. core rulebook to an index of “mini armylists” that included the key units from every faction and points. It was just enough to keep people playing while they waited for the separate codices to ship out.

Warhammer Fantasy – Age of Sigmar

I think we can all remember this one. All the WFB minis got Age of Sigmar warscroll PDFs on day one. Then the Age of Sigmar App was launched shortly thereafter with all the updated unit warscrolls in it for free. Finally the four Grand Alliance books arrived for bargain basement prices to get everyone up to speed with physical rules:

The Great Rebalance

Here’s the silver lining.

For the past 19 years we’ve been lashed to the GW codex treadmill and we all got caught under the millstone from time to time when editions changed.  Remember this pattern:

  • Marines always got a new shiny codex first to rebalance them to the new rules. Sometimes they got 2 codexes per edition.
  • Codexes in the middle of edition sucked early on in the edition, then were okay.
  • Codexes at the end of the edition had a brief moment of glory before being sucky when the new edition came out. Sisters of Battle were notorious for this.

What we haven’t seen in 40K in almost 20 years is an all-at-once rebalance of all the factions.  No waiting, everyone is at the front of the new rules line right away.

Just think of these players who have amazing looking armies and how excited they must be for 8th Edition:

  • Ork players
  • Tyranid players
  • Dark Eldar players

The list goes on, but you get the point.  This isn’t a time for sadness about the old system. It’s literally a once in 20 years opportunity for the ENTIRE 40K community to start fresh on a level playing field with new rules for the game and new rules for your favorite faction.

WE’RE BACK BABY RAWWWWWR!

Count me in for that!

~What faction do you think has the most to gain in the new edition?

 

 

  • Hell-Nico

    I don’t see 40k doing grand alliance book for xeno, they have nothing in common and don’t play together.

    • Jani Jalassalo

      Could be fall into category grand alliance destruction and opposite to put like orks, tyranids atleast to 1 while tau and eldar to like order.

      • Hell-Nico

        Even then, Tyranid don’t ally with anyone, except the genestealer cult.

        You can’t just put all the xenos under the same banner it would be like putting SMC and SM under “spacemarine”.

        • Daniel Rutherford

          well they did this with AoS, high elves and dark elves are best of friends now so could see it happen with 40k

          • PrimoFederalist

            Nonsensical. The High Elves/Dark Elves/Wood Elves are the same species and the conflict between HE and DE was a civil war over succession of the Phoenix Crown resolved by Malekeith’s ascension. Completely different from Tyranids who want to eat everything allying with Tau who want to spread the Greater Good.

          • And now High Elves, Dark Elves, and Wood Elves don’t even exist. 😛

          • Daniel Rutherford

            and Necrons were killing machines, but now they are pot collecting and god collecting (in pokeballs). 😉 yes, I dont see say eldar and tyranids in alliance, but maybe a few different combinations.

          • paxter

            They could be clustered under one book but it does not mean u will get to ally so easily as u may think

          • MarcoT

            Imperium, Space Marines, Chaos, Xenos, Eldar would be my guess.

    • Jukka Vuorisalo

      Just because you don´t like it, doesn´t mean it ain´t gonna happen. Deal with hand you got and choose your own army to play when 8th comes out.

    • Alex Tin-Maung

      To be fair, I could see an Eldar Grand Alliance book given they have 4/5 armies at this point (Craftworld, Dark, Harlequin, Ynari, and Corsairs). But yeah, unless they just decide to just paste the remainding xenos races into one book just because, there really isn’t an opportunity for a Grand Alliance of the remaining Xenos.

    • UltraTrollMarine

      It could just be a compendium for all xenos factions, it does not mean they should be able to ally.

      • Karru

        That’s what I am hoping as well. Making three “compendiums” for the game would be nice. One for the Imperium, one for Chaos and one for Xenos. They contain all the rules, but doesn’t automatically mean they can ally with each other.

        Also, something to consider, you need to have a “pure” army usually in order to gain access to your more powerful abilities such as command traits and relics in AoS, if I understood the system correctly. If I take a Stormcast faction and add a unit of High Elves into it, I can only use Order traits. If my entire army is pure Stormcast however, I am allowed to take Order or Stormcast traits.

        This is most likely the rumour we heard about a while back regarding “encouragement to play fluffy armies”. While you can make a mixed bag of Tyranids fighting with Eldar and Tau, you’ll be much better off with taking a pure army due to the traits and possible “relics”. Then there is the possibility that they can put rules that hamper non-faction forces.

        For example, many Nurgle powers in AoS cause damage to ALL units that don’t have the Nurgle Keyword. So if I include units that don’t have that keyword, I have to be careful not to kill them by mistake. Something similar can be doen with 40k. Shadow in the Warp comes to mind. All Psykers without the Keyword “Tyranids” suffer the effect, so you really don’t want those Flying Hive Tyrants hopping near your Eldar Farseers.

      • I’m leaning in this direction. I have a funny feeling the “Xenos” tag is just a construct for printing less books. It might not have anything to do with how allies work.

        • Jabberwokk

          Hey I’ve had enough of your Imperial supremacist Theocratic Tyrannicism! As an Organism of Biodiversity that offends me! Too long have we Xenos have been oppressed by your oligarchical hold on power! We aren’t a construct! We didn’t choose to be what we are! And now we are demanding reparations for years of oppression!

      • Iconoc1ast

        Exactly!

        Or so i hope…..

    • Jabberwokk

      We all read Marx. We cool now. XENOS OF THE GALAXY UNITE!

    • MarcoT

      They don’t have to be buddies with buddy rules to be in a single book. As a collection “Xenos” makes perfect sense.

  • Hendrik Booraem VI

    Except for people (like me) who bought 3 codexes in the last 3 months. Those people are screwed. But thanks for trying!

    • piglette

      Yeah, well sometimes people buy a codex right before a new one is released. It happens. GW is doing a lot of the stuff people have been clamoring for them to do for over a decade.

    • NNextremNN

      Well you still have the lore and fancy pictures. And at least the new core Rules will be made free.

      • ZeeLobby

        I’m still curious as to how they define “core” vs “full”. Guess we’ll have to wait and see.

        • Jabberwokk

          My guess:

          Core: A 4 page document that gives you in game bonus’s for having a cardboard cutout of a chainsword in your hands screaming “FUR TEH EMPRAH” or having scything talons surgically grafted on your body.

          Full: The actual rules.

          • ZeeLobby

            I definitely feel like we’ll be missing anything related to actual match play, which imo is the actual rules, but I’d love to be surprised.

        • NNextremNN

          Well I think core means at least all general rules without any unit/weapon profiles or special rules. Plus maybe we get the last ones too.

          I think what will be missing in core is the fluff and faction specific formations and relics.

          • ZeeLobby

            Hopefully formations with assocaited points cost, though based on AoS, I think that’ll be a given. But I hope you’re right. And I hope they have a little more depth and less vagueness than the AoS core rules.

        • CrosisDePurger

          Core is likely the “BRB” and full is army rules.

          • ZeeLobby

            Ah, I thought the army rules were gonna be free in app, like AoS?

    • JL

      I know it still leaves you hooped, but this is one of the reasons I’m glad to see codices go away.

      A $50 admissions fee to try an army is a big barrier. And if you buy an older codex that gets updated a few months later you end up in the same situation.

      • That extra cost of entry is part of why I’ve avoided 40k until now.

    • ZeeLobby

      Everyone knows that when a new GW edition is rumored you immediately stop buying everything! You’re units, they’re crap now, those books, useless, and those rules you’ve mastered, gone! Have fun 😀

      • Jabberwokk

        HAH! jokes on you my units have been crap for years. When you’re rock bottom you got nowhere to go but up.

        • ZeeLobby

          Oh gosh, if only you knew how much deeper they could put you, if only you KNEW!

          • Jabberwokk

            Ravenors and Hgaunts are pretty deep in a world with Imperial knights.

          • ZeeLobby

            Well now on a roll of 1 at the beginning of each turn, one half the squad eats the other half!

          • Jabberwokk

            Man that’s just failed IB checks.

          • ZeeLobby

            LoL. Touche! There is only up!

      • Arthfael

        You buy units because they’re good?

        • ZeeLobby

          I know right. What an idiot. I should just buy bad stuff!

    • Talos2

      In fairness it’s been fairly well rumoured. I know thats not official, but when strong rumour persist for long periods of time you should prob take notice as I suspect those are deliberate leaks pretty often.

    • Talos2

      Any you bought within 8 weeks of saturdays announcement can be claimed for and gw will give you a voucher as compensation

    • The Hobbler

      If they were purchased within 8 weeks of the announcement you can get a credit voucher from GW for the cost of the codices.

  • Thomas

    I’m not freaking out about Codexes being made obsolete. In fact, given the ever-swelling size and ever-declining quality of them, I can’t wait to see the back of the stupid things. And now I can spend that extra £30 on models!

    • ZeeLobby

      I really wish they left all their fluff writing to Black Library authors, their current writers just struggle to get me interested anymore.

      • Thomas

        Yeah, it’s increasingly got this feeling of “and then this happened, and then this happened, and then…” Makes me miss Phil Kelly’s amazing stuff from 5th, that was the best the fluff’s ever been imo.

        Also, the quality of artwork has definitely gone down in a lot of cases. Even the quality of the painted minis too. The Dark Angels book is full of laughable artwork and half the minis look like some random dude’s army (decent, but not ‘Eavy metal).

        They just feel like rushed, half-formed products, bloated with stuff of wildly variable quality.

        • ZeeLobby

          Yeah, I’m hoping they were just shoving stuff out the door for the past several years to turn a profit, and maybe now they’ll slow down again. Completely agree on the writing. The artwork is pretty meh, but there are some amazing gems mixed in, but most of it does tend to be technicolor comic style.

          The painting is on purpose (I think) to try and make it more approachable to the new players. In fact, I think a lot of what is done now is for new generations. I think they’re doing what they think kids want, haha.

          • AircoolUK

            Yeah, they made the painting more in line with what most people can achieve by following their painting guides.

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah, which I have no problem with. I still wish they had a page or two in each codex of like high-level stuff. It was pretty awesome.

  • Shawn Pero

    Of course people are crying over invalidated codexes. Why would marine and eldar players WANT orks and nids to be on equal footing? GW is getting rid of their great big shiny win button

    • Thomas

      I play marines, but so do all my regular opponents so I’ve never experienced this feeling of broken, insane power that everyone else talks about 🙁

      • Sean A.

        An therein lies the the issue. Its not your fault, its GW. I suppose I cant argue with them choosing profit. I just want my Tyranids to have a day in the sun. They were my first army and I so do love my ravening horde of devouring bug-dino’s.

        • Jabberwokk

          They have many days in the sun and man! PHEW! Do those rotting carcasses stink or what?

      • ZeeLobby

        Haha. That’s depressing. If all I played was marine on marine I think I’d shoot myself. They do get 50% of the releases every year while everyone else gets a release every 5 years though, so it makes sense.

        • Thomas

          Well, one plays Grey Knights and Blood Angels so there’s a bit of variety I guess, but it’s still just different flavoured marines shooting each other.

          Can’t wait for my Dark Eldar or Orks to be decent again so I can introduce some variety (I’m partly to blame because I do keep bringing my marines instead of one of my xenos armies).

          • Bit hard to want to bring a Xenos army though. I don’t mind loosing games as long as they’re interesting and fun but if all that happens is you get trounced every. single. time. then it is hard to resist the lure of marines to level the field a little.

          • Thomas

            Pretty much. We’re hardly WAAC types, we all just genuinely like marines. Sadly, that means we all have access to some grade A cheese (yes, even the GK and BA) by sheer accident. I feel guilty for using my Centurions or Hammernators!

          • True enough. I do love marines, which is why I’ve gotten into Heresy. Well when 8th hits I may just have to start a new Xenos army and see how it goes. Fear of WAAC players stops me from joining clubs

          • Jabberwokk

            You need to check your imperial privilege and stop colonizing my xenos culture!
            REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

          • ZeeLobby

            Haha. Was that your ferocious Tyranid war cry?

          • Jabberwokk

            Yes.

            I’m all about bringing intergalactic social justice. We’re all just Biomass. Unless your a Necron. Then your an oppressed minority. they just need to be given a safe space to destroy.

          • ZeeLobby

            As someone whose played and retired Orks, Tyranids and DE over the past two editions, I feel your pain, haha.

          • Jabberwokk

            #Xenosforlyfe

    • ZeeLobby

      LoL. I love this false reasoning that somehow the new edition will be balanced from day one. With the brunt of re-balancing falling on the community, it’ll be at least 2 years before we might be at a balanced state. And that’s assuming GW doesn’t unbalance everything with each release.

      • this is true. We can only hope that they’ve been secretly working on it for a while and have attempted to balance things. It’d be a shock though but I can understand how hard it is to make a balanced interesting game with the number of factions 40k has especially using D6 as the main mechanics.

        • ZeeLobby

          I mean it’s definitely a HUGE challenge, but I just don’t see GW making the effort. While the CEO no longer thinks they just make models, they’ve done little to no hiring of actual game designers to improve the situation. I guess they could be internally learning, but it’s one of those company investments that can be expensive and is hard to justify to stock holders who are purely interested in profits.

      • Ish

        Maybe if “the community,” by which I assume you mean the tiny minority that goes to a handful of tournaments, stopped constantly whinging about “balance” whilst simultaneously bending every rule to the breaking point AND JUST OLAYED TO HAVE FUN then this wouldn’t be such an issue?

        • ZeeLobby

          I… don’t know what you’re trying to say here. That the community is bad? Or that the rules are bad? Or that balance is bad?

          • Ish

            I’m saying “the community” consists of a lot more players than the dedicated tourney crowd and that the “balance” they seek is illusory.

          • ZeeLobby

            ‘I’m saying “the community” consists of a lot more players than the dedicated tourney crowd ‘

            Uh. Ofcourse?

            ‘and that the “balance” they seek is illusory.’

            Well that’s just silly. Games can be balanced. True, you’ll never achieve perfect balance, but if there’s only 1/2 OP factions, and 1/2 UP factions, and they’re close together, that’s a good game. Currently Orks and Eldar could not be farther apart on the spectrum. Just because balance is difficult to create doesn’t mean we/GW should just throw our arms in the air and move models around making pew pew noises. GW clearly thinks balance is important, with yearly General’s Handbook updates, so thankfully they don’t subscribe to the same conclusion you do.

          • AircoolUK

            Perfect balance can’t be done in such a game. Hell, I’m pretty sure that the new edition FAQ or website says that armies with equal points will be ‘mostly’ balanced vice perfectly balanced.

          • ZeeLobby

            Which is absolutely fine. I don’t even want perfect balance, as it really would mean mirror matches. But it’s not a world of black and white. They can definitely shift a game closer towards balance. That’s all I want.

            I want the majority of units in a codex to be worth their points.

            I want the majority of factions to have an equal chance to build a list that can play well into the majority of others.

            These are two things not present in 7th edition.

        • Karru

          Actually, it is usually the “good” part of the community that voices out these problems to GW. Either through official routes or some other way trying to make sure they reach GW.

          You might call them the “minority” which they are, but making them sound like the bad guys in this entire thing is wrong.

          It is thanks to the those that actively participate in tournaments that we know how bad the state of the game is. A perfect game would allow all players to choose “whatever” they want and still do good. 40k doesn’t have this luxury. A casual player might refuse to play or ban certain units due to them being too powerful. Why ban them if you are just trying to have fun? Because they are too powerful.

          This is where the Tournament players come in. They are the ones that do the hard work. They calculate the odds, they test things out and play a lot of games to see the effectiveness of certain things. They twist the rules to breaking point and beyond. Why is this a good thing? Because they then let GW know that this is a real issue. Something that needs to be fixed.

          If the “testing” was left to casual players, the end result would be catastrophic. Casual players don’t see the game like those of highly competitive nature. Things like taking multiple of the same unit over and over again, stacking rules and figuring out powerful combinations of units. It is the tournament players that do that part.

          • Ish

            Chess took centuries to become balanced… and that’s a game of perfect information, symmetrical forces, and no random chance.

            Just relax and play for fun.

          • Jabberwokk
          • Karru

            What’s with the buildings and the sudden text “Are you sure about that?” comment? Am I supposed to see someone?

          • Jabberwokk

            You can’t

          • Karru

            But what if my time is now?

          • Jabberwokk
          • Karru

            Now it’s time to get slightly philosophical.

            What is that you consider fun?

            If I bring a hardcore tournament army against your regular list, would you play against me? If not, why? Wouldn’t it be fun to just play? Do you need to have an actual chance of beating me in order to have fun?

            These are the key problems. People consider different things fun. For some people, playing a highly competitive game of 40k is extremely fun. To others, the fun is just playing the game itself no matter how badly balanced both sides are.

            For most though, the fun is had from the fight itself. No matter how competitive both players are, if you know right out of the gate you will get trashed, you won’t be having any fun. So how does one alleviate that problem? They more often than not start bargaining and blacklisting. They refuse to play against certain units for example, so they ask their opponent not to bring them. Is this fun for the one getting their units banned? They might find it fun to see the model they spent days painting on the table, but now they hear they can’t because the opponent wouldn’t have fun.

          • ZeeLobby

            One person’s fun is not necessarily the same as another’s. I think this community has struggled more to understand that than any other. Just cause I enjoy competitive games and want them to be close doesn’t mean that you wanting to create a deeply narrative story is the wrong way to play. Same for the opposite direction.

      • Farseerer

        You can’t just laugh at someones baseless hypothesis and then just present your own hypothesis that is also not based on any facts. Is this the reasonable discussion you were talking about earlier when you were complaining about all the people who disagree with your complaining?

        • ZeeLobby

          I mean my hypothesis is based literally on every other edition GW has ever produced. Add to this the removal of most of their designers behind all of the rule sets that we currently play (minus the recent AoS) 10 years ago, and add to this the fact that the first general’s handbook’s balance was taken from a community comp, and please tell me where the support is for the other side!

          • The Hobbler

            Yes, 8th Edition will have a General’s Handbook that will be created with community input. But they stressed during the Q&A that they have been working really hard on making the game balanced for release. Sure, they can’t get it perfect. That’s why they are doing the Handbook at all, to cover what they may have missed.

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah, I’ve heard that since then, and that’s great! Good on them. We’ll have to see how it turns out. I mean I have minimal faith that they know how to balance a game after the last two editions, but it’s possible.

        • Jabberwokk

          It’s pretty consistent with every game I’ve ever played ever. Definitely seeing that in Mk3 in warmahordes,

          • ZeeLobby

            LoL. Exactly, and they actually did significant play-testing (supposedly).

          • Jabberwokk

            #designspace

            Community breaks the game with Karchev ‘jack spam 24 hours later.Nerfed into the ground after a casted tournament game. Think it was lock and load.The funny thing is we told them so before the edition launched.

          • ZeeLobby

            Haha, yeah. In the end I think you need both sides involved. The company needs to test, so that they keep the vision of their game consistent, and accommodate future releases into their decision making for current rules. The community then needs to show them how their game can be broken so they can fix it. I’m worried that GW is taking a purely community driven approach. There is the possibility that it will result in balance. More than likely it’ll just end in balance swings.

          • Jabberwokk

            If they start listening to the good folk that frequent frontline I think it’ll be much better. Not perfect but much better.

            There’ probably a few other clubs/board with good players they should talk to but I’m out of touch.

            At least PP has the new CID forums which i think will be a huge boon to everyone.

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah, I’m really hoping other companies adopt the CID approach. I also think more communication about design decisions, something PP does very well, would be great for GW’s games. I mean if they have a good reason for making a change, or if they state that future releases will improve a unit, then they’d get a lot less flack. Transparency would be great. Sadly publicly traded companies always struggle with transparency, because it can cause stocks to fluctuate.

          • Jabberwokk

            So can not talking about real problems. I would argue Market forces have forced GW to grow up. That and culling that old dinosaur Tom Kirby.

            I love PP’s “patch notes” on errata.

      • generalchaos34

        I assume you haven’t been following the progress of the Generals Handbook then? They have been consciously altering points for the next version in order to instill some sense of balance based on community feedback and what has been dominating tournaments.

        • ZeeLobby

          Right. And we’re into the 3rd year of AoS. That was my point. When 8th edition 40K drops it will most likely not be a cureall. It will start with big shiny win buttons that are hopefully eroded over time. Its crazy to say that people are complaining about this edition because it will be balanced, when it won’t be balanced for several years.

    • Defenestratus

      I’d like people to want to play against my army now.

      I show up with my Eldar collection – that I’ve built from the early 90’s – and people automatically assume I’m some kind of fun-smashing jerk who only cares about winning.

      I’d like that to change – but in a way that still lets me keep the flavorful character of my beloved race.

      • No-one Special

        I have this exact same problem. I started a Wraith Army with the Iyanden book, as a way to break up the imperial monopoly of the gaming group. By the time I had put it together the new Eldar codex came out and my army went from ‘way cool themed army’ to ‘OMG WTF WAAC’. I actually feel bad using it now, and it put a real downer on my enthusiasm for it.

  • AircoolUK

    I’m just glad to see the Move characteristic back, now my Deldar will actually feel faster.

    Also, two years ago people were setting fire to their armies. Now people are looking forward to some AoS being present in the new edition.

    Times change eh?

    • Thomas

      Yeah, and the DE description on the new site does make a big deal about how much more physically gifted they are to make up for the loss of their psychic abilities. I’m hoping for a buttload of attacks with some light armour-piercing and really high movement speed across the board.

      Dude… Wyches might become decent again!

      • AircoolUK

        I still use ’em stuffed into anything that skims, but with save modifiers making a comeback (we’ve been retro here for a few years playing Rogue Trader), those 4+ CC Invulnerable’s are going to be quite the trick.

  • dreamwarder

    Never mind the fact that loads of players now have £300+ worth of books that are now obsolete. What a colossal waste of money.

    • AircoolUK

      But they’re not… Is my original Rogue Trader (with the Page xx references) a waste of money and useless? What about my 3rd Edition WHFB with the army book and Warhammer Siege?

      You wouldn’t believe how many people want to borrow my prehistoric Realm of Chaos books (Slaves to Darkness & The Lost and the Damned).

      There are others too… my Call of Cthulhu hardback book is so old that it belongs in the Miskatonic University, as do my Star Wars RPG books from West End Games.

      What about my second and third editions of Paranoia, or GW’s Block Mania (with expansions), Star Trek RPG, 1st Edition Space Hulk, Advanced Hero Quest?

      I’ve got a lot of stuff, new and old. I bought the Thanquol End Times doorstop after AoS was released ‘cos I love the fluff on that little bugger.

      I’m pretty sure you could sell a lot of your stuff on Ebay, but I think you need to get some perspective.

      If the Codex’s were still valid with the new edition of 40K, you’d still buy the new Codex’s to replace your current ones, so technically, all of your books that aren’t ‘current’ are also a colossal waste of money.

      You could always set fire to them and post the video on youtube.

      I don’t know anyone who doesn’t keep stuff from older editions of any games. Hell, we still play 3rd Edition WHFB ’round here because it was the best edition. We still have the polystyrene castles and all that.

      • dreamwarder

        Respectfully, you are defending a £30 tax per army to keep playing the game for only a couple of years. I think it might be you that needs to get some perspective.

    • They were going to be obsolete within a couple of years anyway. Since you don’t have to pay to replace them, as you would have before, you are still coming out ahead. I know it sucks, but at some point GW had to kill the codex tax to move forward. In an era of free online rules, having a $50 rulebook for each faction in the game was bonkers.

      • dreamwarder

        Indeed it was (is)

  • Heinz Fiction

    Jumping for joy is a bit exaggerated but getting rid of the old codexes is the lesser of two evils.

  • Marco Marantz

    what the hell are you talking about. 40K has NEVER had an all-at-once position of balance let alone re-balance. i dont know what people are ‘freaking out’ over. There is still insufficient info to know if balance has been addressed or not.

    • Defenestratus

      Yes it has – the great 2nd to 3rd edition evisceration.

      All 2nd edition codexes were immediately invalidated.

      • Marco Marantz

        that doesnt mean the faction rules were balanced or re-balanced when unit rules weren’t even available in 3rd ed as codecies were to be drip fed. They didnt do in 3rd ed what they did in 2nd ed; closest we have ever been was in 2nd ed with the combined interim army lists and codex imperialis book in the boxed set, but even then these were incomplete and interim until codex books came out.

  • Talos2

    Its good move. As long as the individual fluff isn’t lost, the loss of codexes is definitely a good thing. I can’t remember any game of 30k where I even thought about not having specific codexes. It should help create a community that is spending money on the stuff they actually need and that has all the info to do so

  • marxlives

    With all the fluffing articles over the 8th edition that have been cranking out, I am pretty sure the grand alliance concept will happen. 40k will have the same ruleset as AoS. I am also sure that some forces, while having rules to play day one, they will no longer be developed or supported. And will slowly disappear into the background. So if you have an army that doesn’t appear in the grand alliance structure, ebay, ebay, ebay and then purchase one of the GW supported forces.

    • generalchaos34

      doubtful, if you head over to their new website all of the armies have an entry with a little blurb about how awesome they are and why you should play them (looking at you sisters). With AoS outside of the PDF and the Generals Handbook you will find ZERO reference to things like Bretonnians and Tomb Kings.

    • Hell-Nico

      You are totally right.

      It’s pretty funny to see how blind people are here, 8th use the very same tactic that AOS used.

      Technicaly ALL old races and figs are supported, but a lot won’t be supported and updated after that.

      The eldars are the most obvious one, DE, craftworld and harlequin are on the chopping block, the Ynnari will replace them as a single faction.

      • Matthew Pomeroy

        I think this will be different because (putting on tinfoil hat) I think GW wanted to basically end the old world and the original armies completely without completely telling the old guard to go ***** themselves. The direction, style, and overall fluff of AoS is completely different than warhammer. 40k however wont get that massive nuke that ends every culture or army the way they did to the old world.

        • Hell-Nico

          Yeah it’s pretty obvious that was the case, the couldn’t just say “ditch all your fig”, instead they trowed terrible rules they admitted latter were deliberately made bad to force people to switch to new races.

    • Hell-Nico

      Nah.

      Try Warmachine.

  • SirBlimE

    Grey knights, lets rejoin the fight! 🙂

  • Commissar Ahmad

    Thank you, Mr. Vela, for using the proper plural for “codex.” I get a rash every time I see “codexes.”

    • Aura1

      It actually is Codexes – as a trademarked term it’s a proper noun and not the generalised plural to codices. Ask Gav Thorpe 🙂

  • Rob brown

    To be fair, Codices weren’t such a problem when they cost £15 and contained everything you needed to run your army. I can even stomach the increase in cost as the production values have definitely improved over the years. The problem is that you now need three to five books to play some armies which is frankly crazy.

    Incidentally I think the live chat made it clear that there will five books available on Day one. I presume they will be an expanded rulebook and/or compendiums for the existing armies. I don’t think there is any evidence that these will be free – only the slimline core rules will be. GW is still a business after all.

    • Hell-Nico

      That’s the thing yeah, codex were fine when they were decently priced (that could apply to EVERYTHING GW related tbh), but nowaday they are expensive AND you need 2, 3 or sometime more books to play your army.

      This is stupid.

      And, by the way, I’m wondering if ANYONE is really buying their story about “no more codex”, because it’s pretty clear they will just do yet another AOS here and release codex under the name “Battle Tome”.

  • GAZNZ

    just because they are under a Xenos army book doesn’t mean they are allied
    They are Xenos so are in a Xenos army book
    It will be specifically stated if they can ally
    and they said allies cannot do what they used to do
    He used the Dark Angels taking Space Wolves Wolves for example
    You cant do that
    Just wait and see

  • CrosisDePurger

    The Codex Cataclysm is painful, but obviously needed if your revamping the rules in a big way, and most people want a rules revamp, so this is what we must go through.

  • Nothing they do with Tyranids will make me happy unless “claws, jaws and a bad attitude” comes back. To this day that remains my favorite sentence GW has ever published.

  • Punkindrublic

    I can’t see why someone would be upset to see the old codex system go. What is the advantage of waiting years and years for an updated codex that just might be released this year? Or not. Dark Eldar says hello.

  • Superstew

    As an Ork and Dark Eldar player I have to say that I, for one, welcome our new 8th edition overlords.

  • Squeeker

    I have gone from having every codex to only a couple, simply stopped paying stupid prices for a couple pages of content.