GW Lays Down the Law on Painting, Proxies & Conversions

Warhammer World defines exactly what is allowed in their events – and we wonder how you would lay down the law.

Everyone likes to play a game with two beautifully painted armies. But let’s be honest; that is rarely what we see on the tabletop.  Across the world it seems that every playgroup handles things their own way.

Some places only allow fully painted.

Some places want 3-color minimum.

Some places just want assembled and base coated.

Some places allow bare metal.

Some places allow heavy conversions.

Some places allow limited proxies.

Some places allow full proxy armies.

Here are Warhammer World’s brand new rules on what is allowed in their own events:

Warhammer World Events Model Requirements

Here are the two major sections:

Three Color Miminum with examples:

Conversion vs Proxy guidelines:

I have to say that for Warhammer World these seem completely sane.  Warhammer World is the company’s premier on-site event facility and of course GW will want to put “their best foot forward” regarding models in their events.  The goal is to promote their own products after all.  While I’m sure the Conversions vs Proxy requirement will lock out some beautiful but too divergent armies – it always happens. It’s another thing that surprised me.

The Fully Based requirements.  I’ve been to lots of events with 3-color miminums and various stages of proxy limitations, but I very very often will see models hastily painted up the night before on bare black bases.  Basing is a big part of the hobby and it’s interesting to see GW coming down in the side of basing being just as important as painting the models.

What About You

Which brings me back to you.  I’m really curious about how you WANT to play and what restrictions you would put in place for your local game club or events.  I’m a old-school stick in the mud so here’s what I would do:

  • 3 Color Minimum
  • 1 Color Bases (not default black)
  • Every model 90% GW (so limited conversions like headswaps, pauldrons, etc are ok)
  • No Proxies allowed

I’m not looking for masterpieces, but I really really HATE playing against bare metal, or one-color primed models. I’m perfectly happy to accept the full range of painting skills out there, but have the respect for your fellow gamers to at least put some paint on all your models and do something about the bases.  My issues with proxies have nothing to do with GW or any other company – but simply that I detest making a mistake mid-game in the heat of the moment because I thought that one unit was actually something else. Proxies, regardless of their owners intentions – do give actual advantages on the tabletop – simply due to confusion.

~But that’s me. What do you think of GW’s rules and how do you like to play?

  • D. B.

    I say your criteria are mostly perfectly fine. I’m down with the 90% thing – but just to be clear, by “proxies”, you don’t mean “models specifically converted to be something else”, right.

    • Jared Swenson

      Proxies is using a different model to represent something with no artistic merit. Conversions are using models made different, even kitbashed, to represent something with artistic merit. The example they gave in the document about possible conversions or proxies to represent blood knights.

    • ILikeToColourRed

      proxies being “counts as”
      this terminator is my captain
      the one with the claws has as chainfist, this one has a thunderhammer etc etc

      • Charon

        Not only. If you remember the grot rebels army (an imperial guard army made out of beautifully converted grots and grot tanks) they are basically a complete proxy army and not allowed.

        • ILikeToColourRed

          while i get why it might not be allowed (model height)
          i’d play against that, sounds awesome

          • Charon

            Height is the same due to basing.

        • See, that kind stuff is what makes the hobby great, imho it’s not actually a proxy army if it’s fully converted

          • Muninwing

            no, they say that. conversions are allowed.

        • Muninwing

          if it’s all converted, it is.

          like, each grot has a lasgun
          and the grot tanks started as leman russes, but have been grotified.

          if it wasn’t, then it wasn’t wysiwyg anyway…

      • Muninwing

        “counts as” is usually used to talk about small conversions, or ones done with minimal changes.

        like, i think that a Dark Elf Assassin is badass, so i use one as my squad leader in a unit of 40k Wyches and change nothing, but make sure his paintjob is consistent with the rest of the army.

        looks like they don’t accept those. which is sad, but i understand why.

    • AEZ

      In general I’d also agree with his rules.. however since GW just removed my elite archers (waywatchers) and gave me new ones (sisters of the watch – which are qutie expensive too) and I had enough of the former and none of the latter.. I’m using the waywatchers as brothers of the watch when it suits me.

      • Muninwing

        in a case like that, it’s not confusing — the waywatchers are no longer available and therefore are not going to be confused with anything else…

  • Jared Swenson

    I actually agree with the painting requirements and WYSIWYG guidelines. I think they are reasonable, and any gamer who takes some pride in the hobby is going to follow them anyway. I also think they are reasonable with conversions and disallowing proxies is good. My only gripe is not allowing ANY non-gw bits to be used, but from a business standpoint, I understand it. My only experience with an official GW event was the AoS tournament at the LVO this year. My entire army was heavily converted and they were really cool with it, except one model which had a single 3rd party bit on it. The TO (A GW guy, as the AoS event was not run by FLG) said I could still play with it because the core model was GW, but it was disqualified for any paint or army competitions. I am not too sour though because one of my other converted units was entered in a paint competition and won, so it’s all good. Luckily for me most of the events I go to are non-GW events and they are very cool with using 3rd party bits. Just be aware of GW not allowing any 3rd party models and bits when you go to their events. I am willing to bet GW stores adopt the same guidelines.

    • vlad78

      It is exactly the same as they did before dropping the tournament scene. Trouble is many of their new models are just meh aesthetically speaking without some conversion or 3rd party parts.

      • ZeeLobby

        Honestly some of their new minis have just killed my drive to collect them. I’d much prefer alternatives.

      • Muninwing

        do they cover 3rd party parts in the guidelines?

    • Yeah, see, that kinda stuff is why GW shouldn’t be encouraged to run events in the US, there’s no situation where I’d sacrifice the uniqueness and aesthetic of my army because GW doesn’t want me using other manufactuers’ minis. I’d rather not play than be forced into the shallow pool that is the models for older AOS armies

      • ZeeLobby

        Yeah. I really wish using alternative minis was just a completely accepted thing :/

        • I’m curious how GW would feel about my 35 Battle Masters beastmen, technically they were made by Milton Bradley, but they were co-developed with GW and GW’s name is on the box 🤔

          • zeno666

            I’m chocked that GW doesn’t have a rule that says you have to bring your receipt that shows that your mini is bought at legitimate GW store and is max 6 months old.

          • ZeeLobby

            Haha. Who knows. Most likely they wouldn’t even know they were involved.

  • Graham Roden

    It’s a great idea. Lots of people spend a huge amount of time on painting the best miniatures they can. It’s an insult to them not to at least turn up with a base coloured army. Bases can be as simple or as complex as you like, personally I prefer simple. I hate seeing masses of unpainted miniatures on the table (unless the army is only a week old) and mono colour miniatures are just plain lazy.

    • petrow84

      And also, seeing pictures form events full of with painted minis are really inspiring.

    • It’s not disrespectful, you’d prefer people play with painted minis, but the idea that it’s disrespectful is a joke

      • mgdavey

        It’s disrespectful in the sense that a game requires two people to make an effort in order to be enjoyable, and one person decides not to make that effort. If it was a team sport, and one player on your team decided not to make an effort to do their part, it’s fair to call that “disrespectful” of their teammates.

        • It’s really not comparable, this is a board game, painting isn’t essential, it’s not disrespectful, it’s literally just a personal preference

          • mgdavey

            It’s not a board game. It’s a table top miniatures game. That’s the hobby we’re talking about here. Painting is an essential part of it, for about a century. Insisting otherwise is ridiculous.

          • Evidence painting isn’t essential: knobs keep complaining about people playing with unpainted minis, if it was essential, that wouldn’t happen because they couldn’t play. It’s the least essential part of the board game we play

          • mgdavey

            The knobs are the ones complaining that they can’t play with their unpainted minis because they think it’s a “boardgame”

          • dynath

            The new small starter boxes come with cardboard terrain. Its a board game. LOL.

            Beyond that the mentality that everything has to be perfect to play is a barrier to new players. I can understand paint rules at tournament but for local flag’s play it means new players won’t have opportunities to enjoy the best part of the game quickly. The play. No game is fun if you can’t play it. And on one will stick with a game they can’t play. As “disrespectful” as it may or may not be to show at a tournament with an unpainted army it’s just as disrespectful to say to someone at your local flgs “you bought and assembled this stuff but you can’t play because my army looks better.”

          • euansmith

            I think that, if 40k was a Board Game, it would have better rules and balance 😉

          • Lol, saying other people are free to do with their purchases as they want is definitely not knob behavior, quite the opposite

      • Bigalmoney666

        If I spent hours painting an army to make the game as enjoyable as possible, and my opponent shows up with an army full of grey plastic and proxies for day…yeah it’s insulting.

        • I_am_Alpharius

          I don’t know. The word “Insulting” is probably not the right word. Insulting implies that a person has done something purposely to upset a particular person or group of people. It’s lazy, on that hobbyist part, for sure and certain frustrating to see week in week out, but definitely not insulting.

          • Bigalmoney666

            Sure, of the things in you’ll experience in your time on earth it’s not very insulting, but it’s still on the spectrum.
            I generally give a pass to people who show some effort.

          • lunahula .

            It’s not that they have gone out of their way to be insulting. More that they don’t care enough to make the effort. It’s like a guy lazily set up for a date with a woman who has put a lot of work into her appearance. Of course she is going to feel insulted that he hasn’t made the effort.

            Also because it’s Warhammer world and not just a GW store, Friendly local store or someone’s house or gaming club I think you kind of expect more enthusiasm from the people there. I mean they can afford to buy and army and come to Warhammer World for the day and have the time to do so, but don’t have the money or time for painting?

        • I dunno, that sounds like the problem is you, not them

        • Tothe

          “You don’t have as much time for the hobby as I do, so you’re not allowed to play the game.”

          THAT is insulting.

          • Bigalmoney666

            Strawman much?
            There are obvious exceptions to the paint rules in my opinion: New units, trail list, busy schedule etc. all factor into the equation.
            All I’m asking is my opponent show some effort. You don’t need to paint like a Golden Demon winner, but at least give it a try.

          • Muninwing

            anyone who has prepped for a tournament by painting a whole army in one night knows that it’s not about “as much time” so much as it is about “as much time as you want”

            i could fully 3-color paint every model i have. i would hate them, and eventually would have to strip them to paint them as i want to, but i could. instead, i will foolishly take 10 hours to get the texture and shading of wood correct on a chariot. but i do that when i know i have the time to do so.

          • Tothe

            I don’t play in tournaments, and I am a perfectionist. So you are arguing for my point rather than against it.

        • dante13

          I don’t agree, i personally go for the studio look on my minis but if some dude drops plastic unpainted minis on a table does it bother me… nope.

          A lot of people cannot paint at all and to add even more barriers to a dying expensive game is insanity.. In Australia this game is Dying badly.

      • Muninwing

        i actually understand the disrespectful thing. as someone who has never fully painted a single army, and went nearly six years without finishing more than five models, i am guilty of this.

        but it’s not a huge deal, especially if the opponent is fun to play against.

        the ideal is a visual experience, though. and your lack of follow through undercutting someone else’s experience is a choice you make when you pack up that army and take it to the event.

        • Oh I mean, events are free to restrict painting however they see fit (whether it’s limiting the player’s points, banning unpainted, etc) I just find the idea that 40k is something to be respected rather than the humorous distraction that it is laughable

    • William Jameson

      I think the worst example was in a tournament I went to in Belfast a few years back. A Grey Knights player turned up with not only unpainted minis (not even primed) but they hadn’t even got any arms stuck on. Not just one or two, but the full army.
      I couldn’t tell if it was pure laziness or the guy had literally bought them the day before and had begun assembling them in his room the night before the tournie started.

    • Drpx

      I’m triggered by gray toys.

      • Koonitz

        Preferred Enemy (Unpainted Minis).

    • Thomas

      I’m a decent-to-pretty-good painter and I honestly don’t care if my well-painted Death Guard are squaring off against a wall of black primer.

      I’m there to talk to people, play games and have a social experience, not to gape at “teh byootiful art.”

      • Graham Roden

        I understand in a friendly or club scenario, but even then week after week of unpainted miniatures is at best bone idle. For an event even flat colours are fine, not everyone has time or the ability to paint to GW standard. If I entered a GW event I’d make sure my force was above the minimum standard for it, the same goes for Initiative 17 in October, my Americans won’t be Warlord standard, but they will be recognisably American.

  • petrow84

    Perfectly fine and sane for me.
    Only question is about modelling and conversions, which would give you gaming advantage, but I guess it is judged on an individual basis.

  • Loupis Cannis

    When i first attended a war game club i was told , “It is disrespectful to other players to put unfinished figures on the table , So don’t do it!” , Since then i will not put a figure on the table unless it is “Finished”

    • AEZ

      In the store I might use a new unit unpainted.. I’d try to at least show progress with it in later games though (I’m more of a gamer than a hobbyist). So if I just bought a unit I might play it plastic (rest of army would be painted to what would be GW’s minimal standard.. since that is about the best I’ve yet created), next time sprayed in the base color and the time after it it would probably have a few colors on it (however I have a few units which are clearly not completely finished but still have multiple colors on it and look painted – from a distance). More than one plastic unit would be the limit for me though.

      • euansmith

        “… and look painted – from a distance…”

        😀 Amen, brother.

    • Heinz Fiction

      I’m more than 20 years in the hobby and have played against a fully painted army only once I think (my own armies are between 10% and 80% painted). I’d rather have a game with unfinished models than no game at all…

      • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

        Curious where you live? I would say the exact opposite, gaming for 30 years and can remember every one of the few opponents who had unpainted armies. Probably 95% of my games have had both armies painted.

        • Heinz Fiction

          I live in germany. We have no time for painting – we build cars and plot for the next world war 😉

          • euansmith

            If only wars could be won with a penalty shootout. 😉

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            Lets hope we are on the same side for the next one!

          • CloakingDonkey

            I can confirm that painting is not as commonplace in Germany as it is in other places. It has to do with our culture of “do it right or don’t do it at all”, which leaves a lot of people just not bothering cause they think they’ll do a bad job painting their minis.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            Thats a shame. The excellent should not be the enemy of the good, to coin a phrase.

          • CloakingDonkey

            couldn’t agree more. I’ve spent most of my wargaming career trying to get people to paint more minis 😀

    • This is part of why I don’t play. I don’t sink nearly enough time into painting miniatures. I’ve been meaning to get rid of my 40k stuff for years and paint stuff I want to paint but then I’d not have anyone to play with.

      I have Tyranids.

      I’ve grown to hate painting.

      • euansmith

        I thought that ‘nids were one of the easier armies to paint. I would spray them all over in a light tan, paint their teeth, give their “soft” body parts a dark wash, tidy up their teeth, armour and claws with the original colour and then wash over the entire mini with a mid-tone. It wouldn’t be great, but it would be done 😉

    • Those people are ridiculous, that’s not what disrespect means, it’s a board game

      • Bigalmoney666

        Nah, imagine how you’d feel when you show up with a grey army and the other guy shows up with coins and bottle caps.

        • I started playing warhammer out of realms of chaos with scraps of paper because we didn’t have figs, those were still some of the best games of my life. Some people have no imagination

          • Bigalmoney666

            Why’d you bother getting miniatures then?

          • because converting models is fun, far more fun than gaming in fact

  • Jacob Hewitt

    If i am playing a casual game with a friend i dont mine proxies or unpainted minis as games like that are more social to me and usually a safe way to try stuff out. If i am playing at some event or at a club with a nice table i would agree with everything you suggest and prefer as much as possible to be WYSIWYG.

  • Matthew Wulf

    the base thing kinda frustrates me cus i like to put my stuff on clear bases. it looks better on the table because you don’t have clashing turains.

    • Tshiva keln

      I think most people would agree you had finished bases there. There is a reason for your artistic choice and you have “finished” your model. It’s not a case of a black/undercoated base.

    • euansmith

      I like clear base, and I saw a clever trick where the owner painted the edges of their clear bases black to remove the reflection you get around the vertical side; it worked surprisingly well at making the base practically disappear.

    • Jice

      This is the same thing I’d be annoyed with. I clear base or sometimes just use a plan back base [painted in matte black] precisely because I’m trying to show off the paint job. Many many many many of the best painted models I’ve ever seen have no textured/painted/sanded bases what so ever. When Rahkam was the big name in beautifully painted miniatures, none of them were ever based.

      To me bases are the biggest point of contention in miniature games. Some guy can base every single one of his poorly painted space marines on a rock he got from the garden and suddenly that’s better than my artistic decision to go with a solid black.

      Never mind that everything on a 5 inch high rock looks completely ridiculous which I’ve also seen. Some people go crazy with the cork once they find out about it.

  • David

    The meh standard is to high. Base texturing should be optional and there pictured basic standard has more accuracy than I could hope at my best (my hand wobbles). If I could reliably paint to that standard I would think it was good. Where as their good example of a fully painted I would see as superbly painted.

    At my local club 1 colour Base
    3 colour model
    Proxies allowed but should be clear what they are If someone wants to run mantic elves as opposed to GW elves I’m still going to play then at a local level.

    • Rainthezangoose

      Couldn’t agree with you more. I’m pretty confident with my painting. I’m always impressing my non-wargaming friend. (I’m not that good, but good enough that it looks really good until you look super close) but I’v been painting miniature since primary school. I think there examples are harsh, and would definitely put alot of people off.

      • euansmith

        I really like Army Painters little brochure that they hand out to all and sundry to show their painting style. Basically you spray the model with a coloured primer, add some spot colour and then liberally apply a wash. The results might make skilled painters recoil in horror, but it is fast and, at arms reach, effective.

        • ZeeLobby

          Army painters wash is pretty amazing. I have one of their dip cans and use it pretty regularly when it comes to fantasy models.

          • euansmith

            I cheated and bought a can of water soluble wood stain from a DIY Store. With a bit of flow aid, it makes a rather effective heavy wash and only cost a few quid per litre.

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah, I’ve heard of people using regular hardware stuff before for priming, washing, gloss, etc. I just dunno if I have the cajones to do such things, haha.

          • Severius_Tolluck

            Heck that used to be in the rule books and painting guides GW produced as a method!

          • ZeeLobby

            Haha, yeah. By the time i got into painting they already had their wash line, but i remember those articles.

          • euansmith

            The proper Army Painter stuff is more effective, I think, but I don’t like the smell and fuss of oil based paints; and, while it cast a fair bit, a can of Army Painter Dip appears to go a very long way.

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah, It’s pretty awesome. Love that stuff.

          • memitchell

            Here’s THE secret with using water-based wood stain. Let it settle. Do NOT shake it or stir it. Once most of the pigment has settled into dark brown gunk at the bottom of the can, the essence floating above that muck is nectar. Dip the model, brush the excess back into the can. You will have a strong wash, but not a heavy one. It will darken colors, but not blacken them. Even human and elven skin tones come out well. I don’t need to go back and add details, and I don’t need to highlight. After 25+ years of painting little green men, I prefer the simple life. I could always do more, and sometimes I do. The stain dries matt flat, and is its own protective coating. But, it can be painted on, too.

          • euansmith

            Thank you for that tip! I’ll give it a go on my next mini. I would say, “… on my next test mini”, but that would imply a degree of care and planning that my minis do not enjoy.

      • oh, magoo…

        I’d point out it’s showing the color expectation more than the skill level. If you’re not a high quality painter but “an effort was made” I think everyone is happy.

        I get salty about unpainted armies, especially if they are pretty clearly flavor of the month/quarter lists that someone just threw together. If it’s a house game with buddies of course who cares. But a tournament isn’t “just” about the game, it’s a showcase. You should come ready to show off.

    • Heinz Fiction

      I don’t get the fuss about basing either. The base only exist to help the model stand upright and for measuring purposes (outside AoS). A beautiful textured base with green grass and tuffts on it looks just as stupid as an unpainted base if you’re playing on a desert or snow battlefield (or that model is just standing on a building or something).

      I personally do some base texturing in some of my hobby projects, in others I don’t and just go with an unobstrusive base color

      • euansmith

        I think that a nicely turned out base can save a mediocre paint job.

        • oh, magoo…

          And thank god for that. Any time I am not super happy with how a model looks I’m instantly saved by how great it looks on a freshly made base.

        • Mr.Gold

          for me, as long as all the bases are the same – its good. i.e. if they were all black, all sand, all mud etc.

      • oh, magoo…

        Someone once told me “bases tell the story of your army.” Unique bases can make or break an otherwise “eh” looking paint job.

        • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

          True. All Ultras look much the same, but the base says where they are and what they are doing.

        • Heinz Fiction

          Indeed. When I finished a model on an industrial themed base once, my brother commented: “so this guy is carrying his personal steel pipe into battle – how funny.”

    • Dave Weston

      In fairness to GW they have not described that minimum standard as ‘meh’ BoLS have added that. It’s their minimum standard and is acceptable. I’m sure the best that you could do would still be within this area based on your description.

    • wibbling

      With you on the hand wobbling. It’s very, very hard to paint – not withstanding frustrating – when you can’t hold the brush still.

      • memitchell

        Then, don’t. Those fine line highlights are not easy. Painting marine armor like that is tedious and time consuming and hard to do perfectly. It’s a shame that has always been portrayed as a simple to achieve standard. A good wash will also bring out edge and ridges. And, will yield good results. Heck, a blue glaze over silver spray paint makes for nice looking Ultramarines. Find what works for you.

    • Ben_S

      I’m ok with requiring base texture of some kind, but I agree that their ‘meh’ is actually a pretty decent tabletop standard, well beyond three colour minimum.

  • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

    I have standards for my own army, but I wouldn’t ‘require’ anyone else to abide by them because I am not an @rse and what another guy does with his army is his own business. I’ve had fun games against some dreadful looking armies without even full models. One guy just had a single leg on a base as a War Walker!

    I usually find its better to model (in the sense of ‘be an exemplar of’) a positive thing (like having a fully painted army) rather than moan at someone for not having one.

    Obviously its nicer to play against a fully painted army on a nice table though and I do my part in that as a courtesy to my opponent.

    As for 90% GW models I couldn’t care less. As long as I can tell what something is. There are some fantastic alternative minis out there from talented sculptors, be a shame to exclude them. Likewise there is no reason not to use cheaper alternatives. My Renegades and Heretics zombie horde is all Mantic stuff and looks a damn site better than the old WHFB zombies would have.

    • Rainthezangoose

      I agree with the alternative, I do think there should be a case to be made to allow non-gw models, even at events. If your showing up with hundreds of pounds of beautiful hand painted gw plastic crack but get turned away because of one unit you subbed out because GW refuse to update sculpt, that’s far from reasonable.

    • ZeeLobby

      Yeah, sadly GW has priced me out of playing a lot of models I would like. They require GW models because they want to sell them, but that trickles down to the community as well. I’ve had players complain about alternative models before, and it just seems something silly for a consumer to complain about (they were clearly identifiable as their replacement). I doubt we’ll ever see GW change this stance, but I wish other companies would adopt alternative models a little more. There are some truly great sculpts out there that I’d love to substitute.

  • Rainthezangoose

    I am terrible for this, I have no completely painted army. I actually got WarhammerQuest months ago however and ever since then decided I wouldn’t play with it until it’s fully painted. I stuck to this and even tho it isn’t finished (it nearly is) I haven’t played it despite my growing desire to. This has had a knock on effect. I’ve actually flogged two of my big 40k armies. Not because I wanted to get rid of my Nids or Ultramarines, but felt that if I didn’t id never paint my Guard, Orks, Nightlords or Dark Eldar. I don’t think I have one army that’s even 25% other then my Gondor force for LotR and that’s not finished (about 75%). I think the issue for people like me is i’ve got a bigger miniature appite then my hands can keep up with, then when the pile of unpainted mintures increase the desire to paint decreases. Im 22 and at the stage where I have models on spurs that have been sat there for months…..#prayforrain

  • Garr Davies

    The restrictions are fair enough for official Warhammer World events. People generally proxy when testing out builds or new profiles, and if you have taken your army to Warhammer World, you ain’t testing it :P.

  • Eisai

    The no-nonGWbits policy is harsh, but maybe GH needs to grow to allowing it.

    GW are the easiest, and in the end quite price-efficient, models for GW armies. You have a variety of options, additional bits etc.

    But then you want to have a heavily ornamented, in a very specific way, new army.

    For example: space marines spartan style (for example purposes lets forget we have FW Minotaur bits).
    You want to get a new army, heavily converted. To make 2 squads you will buy at least 2 boxes, maybe 3 because of heavy converting. That is already more than you normally would with a new army. You also buy 3rd party bits for this. This army wont look like you imagined withouth this help.

    Withouth those bits you wont start a new army at all, because you want a new army.

    Help (from 3rd party) in making the community bigger, more engaged is THE IMPORTANT THING. More people that want to spend money, more interest in the game, means more money for GW.

    And they want to block part of the community from attending their events. How it is a good idea?
    Of course, banning non-GW models is an ok decission. But I would even leave 75% of a model that is ok.

    Now I need to rethink my TS army… Some squads wont get into a GW shop soon…

    • Porty1119

      I don’t think there is a GW shop within six hours of me, certainly no less than two. What GW shops allow has no bearing on me. My Imperial Guard army uses GW vehicles with entirely third-party (Pig Iron) figures.

  • David

    Also my chaos spawn is a tech priest dominous lying on its back with spider leg’s painted blue sticking out like tenticles from where it’s legs should be.

    It’s clear to my opponents what it is
    Its on the correct base
    I have been complemented on how it looks by a number of people
    All parts are GW
    And personally it looks cool (and used up spare kits from my other army).

    Unfortunately this would be a proxy by those rules so nothat useable as none of the parts were original spawn parts.

    • Eisai

      “none of the parts were original spawn parts.”
      This is not needed by those rules.

      The question is: is your model using a vanilla tech priest dominus?
      If you converted it so it looks like the tentacles are sentinent and really walking, if you converted/added bits so it looks better to reinforce the intended visual, than it is ok.

      If you just rolled it on the back and painted it differently – only then it would not go in.

  • J Mad

    For events? Sure i completely agree. For local play? Let players play and painters paint.

    Sadly tho not everyone is a painter, many just like the models or
    putting them together, in a local club why force a hobby on someone? If
    this means they will turn away thats the worst thing that can happen.

    I
    love painting, but i enjoy the modeling and playing more, i dont have a
    fully painted army ever on the table, its not disrespectful at all, b.c
    this is 3 in 1 hobby. Not everyone likes all 3.

    Saying its
    disrespectful is the same as a person in art club (not a class but a
    club to join and talk about art) that likes to draw in black and white
    and then tell him he has to use other colors. Who is the real
    disrespectful person?

    • ZeeLobby

      Well put. It’s crazy how nasty some people get over this as well. Just as bad as competitive vs narrative play in some cases.

      • memitchell

        You’ve never actually heard anyone in this hobby get nasty about an unpainted army or unit. Maybe online, but not in person. They’d be complaining all the time, almost every game. Thsi si as old as the hobby. The people too lazy or disinterested to put a decent army on the table are at fault here. Not the ones who take the time and effort. Don’t make the lazy, indifferent ones the victims.

        • ZeeLobby

          Uh. I’ve seen it in person. Several times. Some people get really pissed about it. Even turning away someone who just started the game and was learning.

          And I don’t understand why having a painted army is required to play the game. It isn’t. Period. Some people enjoy playing the game. I’d rather have more opponents to play with, than drive them away to other systems just because they don’t like to paint.

        • GnomesForge

          My favorite game growing up was Heroquest. Never painted them. Painted models should be a nice optional thing and nothing more.

    • mgdavey

      You’re right, this hobby has three parts. Painting is one of those parts. There are games you can play that don’t require painting. Play X-wing. To use your example, it’s like the person who joins the “Color Art Club” and then insists that people accept the fact that they only draw in black and white. Nothing wrong with that, but just not in this club.

      • J Mad

        That’s not the same thing, this isn’t a join and must paint hobby. It’s a buy the models and do what you want with them. The game doesn’t require painted models my example is correct.

    • memitchell

      It’s more about respect for yourself. Anybody can show up with unpainted stuff. Anybody. And, they usually say they are “gamers” first. Yawn. Translation: “I’m too lazy or disinterested to put a decent army on the table.” It’s OK, it’s not a character flaw. But, don’t pretend it’s a virtue, either.

      BTW, bring an unpainted army to an American Civil War miniatures battle, and tell the other guys with hundreds of lovingly painted figs that you respect him. And, sorry your army ruins the visuals of the game. Because, well, you’re a “gamer.” Yawn.

  • Krizzab

    are the pauldron upgrades from ForgeWorld aliexpress allowed?

    nevermind…

  • DT

    Oh golly you painted your entire army to golden deamon standard? Too bad it got torn apart in two turns, maybe if you had gotten more practice in while you were finishing your army instead of waiting until the whole thing was finished before playing you would have gotten more fun out of the match?

    Yeah, I’m more concerned with enjoying the game rather than than how well the models are painted.

  • Crevab
  • Kyu

    I’ve never understood the requirement for models to be “fully based”

    Yes a nice textured base is good and better than a plain black disc. I don’t see anything inherently wrong with the black disc either so long as its neat and tidy. Not covered in splatters of the model’s paint.

    • DT

      I know, I’d rather have a plain black base of a clear base that can go with any terrain rather than themed bases that stick out on certain table set ups

    • Watcherzero

      Indeed, texture paints are quite a messy and time consuming process and often require retouching of the model, painting mud texture and colour on 100 imperial guard with their tiny bases will still take at least a month of hobby time.

      • Porty1119

        I used a mixture of dilute glue and Arizona sand and gravel. I don’t think it was any faster or less messy, but it was at least nearly free!

    • Porty1119

      I gave my models plain brown- or white-painted disks for the first decade or so of playing. No shame in it whatsoever; not everyone likes the look of textured bases.

    • Dan Wilson

      Alternative: clear perspex discs…

  • tfkimmortal

    Because wargamming is a fashion show… Good thing I play games where they don’t care if it’s painted or not.

  • I_am_Alpharius

    I have to say that for Warhammer World these seem completely sane. Warhammer World is the company’s premier on-site event facility and of course GW will want to put “their best foot forward” regarding models in their events.

    The phrase “making a mountain out of a molehill comes to mind”. I’m pretty sure, indeed 100% sure, that any hobbyist going to a Warhammer World Event weekend (who would have already paid £65+ to go) will have no compunctions about adhering to those rules. I certainly can’t say I disagree with any.

    Its important to note this is the guideline for their events and not for turn-up and play gaming at WHW. Nor is it GW dictating how private events and clubs should run things.

  • Lol, no WHW, I’d rather not play on your tables than ask for a permission slip for conversions

  • DT

    When it comes to proxies, as long as an official model exists, I agree with “no counts as” rule in tournaments due to the risk of confusion upsetting the game.

    But in a casual game I have no problem with proxies, it lets people try different loadouts/units before committing to buying them and some kits like Chaos Devastators only come with one of each weapon option.

  • PrimoFederalist

    Totally agree, HOWEVER, it is going to be very, very expensive to play infantry-heavy non-Cadian/non-Catachan Guard armies with the proxy rule in effect. More plastic Guard, please!!!

    • Converting cadians into mordians or whatever should be fine (and the new guard codex supposedly goes over variants that use the same tactics as existing guard regiments but have different aesthetics), but yeah, no 3rd parties makes other regiments harder

      • Porty1119

        Converted third-party Guard has to be one of the most fun armies to put together.

  • Watcherzero

    I resent the implication that my models aren’t finished because I haven’t done edge highlights. I actually don’t like them as they make the models edges look like worn plastic.

    • Yeah, although I think any graduation is probably enough for them, Inq28 people play there all the time and their aesthetic is like the polar opposite of edge highlights

    • euansmith

      Don’t forget to apply your colours as two thin coats, or else Duncan Rhodes will be called in to strip your paint with a blow torch 😀

      • Iconoc1ast

        The holy number!

        • euansmith

          “Two is the number of coats that shalt apply; not one, not three, but two, and thin they shall be.” The words of Blessed St Duncan the Pictoris.

    • mgdavey

      Who’s saying you have to do edge highlighting?

  • Darkcat

    I use tau stealth suit and ghostkeel. Peoples ask me were are the models, only empty bases. I painted them stealthly.

  • Considering that I play mostly for the spectacle and the aesthetic, I would expect playing at the capital city of wargaming events would enforce something other than the standard bare metal / bare grey plastic which is a downer to play against if the visual is something you value.

    Everywhere else its pretty much no one cares and thats fine too.

  • Balor

    I’m good with conversions so long as it is clear to what it should be in scale and size to a GW equivalent include all key elements. Ideally crafted and painted with care on pare with the rest of the army so that you see that the gamer took the time and effort of their own skill level.

    Ten years ago when we did not have all these amazing 3rd party products or good alt proxies we needed to have 50% of the model GW. I think this was more of preventing the green army men 40k poxy list from showing up.

    Avoid GW stores as they seems to be the main problem when it comes to most of the restrictions.

  • ZeeLobby

    Personally I’d LOVE playing fully painted and modeled armies every time. That said, I don’t really care playing anything else as well. Some people just really enjoy the games, and not so much the hobby side, and I’m not one to judge what others like and dislike, as long as they don’t try to force it on me, haha.

  • Daniel Carleton

    I would be more inclined to play wysiwyg if you could actually buy the bits and pieces from GW. I remember back only a few years ago, you could buy special weapons on sprues of 5 from GW. Blisters of a single heavy weapon marine. Now you have to buy 4 boxes and throw away the rest.

    • Mr.Gold

      or find the special weapons on ebay, swap them with friends etc.

    • Bigalmoney666

      ebay dude. It’s not like the 90’s when you had to order a hunk of metal from the annual catalog.

  • Fergie0044

    I don’t mind the painting and proxy restrictions, but all my models are on clear black bases. They’re also as well painted as my ability allows, I’m not being lazy, I just genuinely think black bases look well.

  • piglette

    I only bring painted to the table.

    • Dan Wilson

      Same. As a result, I hardly ever play games =P

  • Hagwert

    My local GW manager is very cool about this…. his rule is as long as it’s painted and based he doesn’t mind what company made the miniature as long as it easily recognisable as the troop type , monster or war machine it’s meant to represent.

  • Jabberwokk

    Well it’s there store they can run it any way they like.

    I can also go to my local gaming store that doesn’t give a crap about what you do.

    I do imagine is much nicer and easier to market a bunch of people who put some effort into their armies then a bunch of bare plastic/metal ones.

  • Drpx

    GW requires flock on basing.

    GW sells said flock.

    Really activates the almonds.

    • mgdavey

      Other companies sell flock too.

      • Dennis J. Pechavar

        I was going to joke that you can’t use that product but they did say they relax more with basing.

  • Dennis J. Pechavar

    For a GW sponsored event its their show so their rules. I won’t ever be able to attend one as I use third party bits and proxy as I want. They want to sell their toys and I get that. I prefer to see painted armies as well, even if it’s just that they are making progress finishing the project. That being said it doesn’t sound like fun to me so I will avoid official events.

  • Kyle Stetson

    I don’t totally agree with the basing requirement. I don’t think my cracked grey tomb world Necron bases look any worse than neutral black bases when two armies are squaring off in a green grassland.

    • Dan Wilson

      I’ve seen some done with clear perspex bases that look good.

  • Marco Marantz

    WYSIWYG restrictions are dumb…when you have old metal miniatures whose equipment is very much fixed. Also dont like restrictions on conversions. Conversions should be encouraged and it would be preferable they do not represent a proxy; if you are converting you are generally creating a load-out GW sell.

    • I_am_Alpharius

      Have to disagree.

      For tournaments and the such WYSIWYG is certainly not dumb. Having models armed as they are on your army list just makes it very clear which models are armed with what weapon – I don’t see how that is unreasonable in a competitive setting where game time is restricted and you don’t want to be repeatedly asking “what was that unit armed with” or “what weapon did you say you warlord had”. Yes, perhaps converting metal models, to be armed with the weapon you intend them to have, is a little more time consuming than that of plastic kits; however, its really not that hard either.

      I also can’t say the GW event guidelines are discouraging conversions either. All they are saying is that when a model is converted it should clear what unit it is representing. Equally, their position on proxies is logical. Just taking one kit and calling another is not converting, and is potentially misleading, for your opponent, as to what unit is representing. Proxying is certainly fine in a private setting if you’re looking to test something out before you buy. However if I was at a gaming club and week after week a player would proxy, I certainly would have a issue then, as that’s just being lazy a cheap skate.

      • Marco Marantz

        Simply sticking on other weapons a models back meets the requirement but it does little for clarity; a player still has to get up close to investigate each model if you have a guy with a pistol and chainsword but with a combi melta strapped to his back for eg. Even one of GWs own aspiring champion figures did this, with two melee weapons and a melta. I though the whole point of bringing copies of your list so you can hand them out was a requirement for pretty much every tournament. I can refer to a copy of the opponents list at any time. I dont have a problem with abused proxying but as I said, conversions are often done to reflect a load-out you can take but GW does not provide a model for.

  • Peripheral

    I will never understand the fixation on basing.

    Basing looks great in your display case but breaks the scene in a game when your mini seems to be walking past the same tuft of grass while fighting in a ships interior.

    Black just looks like a shadow from an overhead light source.

  • SilentPony

    There are guys at my local store who have never painted a single model, yet have entire armies. I’m talking 3+ tac squads, land speeders, bikes, HQs, whirlwinds, Dreads, Deathwing, the works…not one has been even base coated in years.
    But they often buys stuff so the manager lets it slide.

  • odeepie

    the proxy rule is just another part of this companys broken market scheme. They have sued every company come close to their model sculpts. By saying proxies have to be 90 percent it keeps people from playing the different options without buying the models

    • stinkoman

      wow, you are literally complaining about a company wanting you to buy their products. mind you that the rules they produce are in support of the sales of their models. god forbid they want you to buy the models to play the game.

      i mind as well stay off my playstation because they lock me into buying playstation games on their console.

      • odeepie

        This is the reason i rarely comment on anything that is a gw post. Fanboys come out of the woodwork defending a company whose policy went from being a hobby company concerned about balance and rules to a money making machine who only cares about breaking an army with new models and rules so people run out and buy it, just to change it the next edition making it useless. Thats a simple fact it isn’t debatable even if for some reason you think it is. I have 2 armies both put together on ebay and i paid half of what gw wanted for them. But im done buying their product there really are better games out there

  • Tyr

    I happen to *like* black bases. Then again, Im also extremely unlikely to play at Warhammer World, or any official tournaments,so meh…

    • Matthew Pomeroy

      I am one of those “black base” people, comes from other games, but I truly despise “scenic” bases and cork really annoys the hell out of me.

  • stinkoman

    I’m down with WH World’s requirements. Glad my buddies are to. Makes the game more enjoyable to us. brings the world to “life” ..lol

  • 301stFeinminsterArmoured

    Proxy limits somewhat suck. If you want me to play a specific model, you should make it readily available.

  • Salvatore Bellomo IIIl

    Sorry, but where in the official GW rules does it say the 90% thing?

    • I_am_Alpharius

      Read the article correctly. The 90% is Larry’s personal preference for a clubs rules.

  • uatu13

    And, this is why I don’t have any desire to go to one of these events. I don’t need the company dictating how I enjoy the hobby.

    • I_am_Alpharius

      Don’t be so dramatic. GW are not “dictating” anything. They are simply setting the standards at their tournaments – which is their prerogative. No one is forcing you to go to a GW run tournament and no one’s telling you how to do your hobby in your personal time.

      In the same way as the: FA, NBA, NFL, FIFA, IOC, IPA, or any sports body, dictate how team kits should be designed and the rules at their events. However, none of those bodies are going to go to a local office team and tell them what to wear or how to play.

      • uatu13

        No need to be condescending. People enjoy the hobby in many different ways, and having such a narrow scope for events excludes a large portion of their fanbase.

  • aylwong

    Stop playing games that need 50+ painted minis on each side. I play Infinity, Frostgrave, even dropfleet commander, and play fully painted and fully modelled tables all the time. 20 models per side is very paintable. 100 is not.

    • euansmith

      Indeed, I’m more and more drawn to skirmish and micro-skirmish games. After all, you get the same number of “units” in a game, six to a dozen or so per side, but each unit is just one mini. You get the same tactical challenge of a large scale game, except you effectively get more table top room to maneuver. Effectively it is like playing Epic Scale, only with nice, big minis that I find more relatable than 15mm, 10mm or 6mm. I know it is a matter of taste.

      • Matthew Pomeroy

        same boat here, which is why games like malifaux, WoK, LOTR, and the upcoming company of iron are so appealing to me. I hate painting hordes of the same guy

    • mgdavey

      If you can paint 20, you can paint 100. It just takes 5x longer.

      • euansmith

        Or, in the same time, you can paint forces for five factions in a smaller scale game. 🙂

        • JPMcMillen

          Or, forces for five different games.

  • Muninwing

    if you took a model from your collection and put it into a different list, that is a proxy

    if you got the idea to convert a model so it fit into your new army, and made it distinct from what it was, that’s a conversion.

    some conversions are super easy. headswaps, weapon changes, symbols, etc. i once converted a unit of Brettonians by adding greenstuff fire to their hooves and using skeleton heads instead of helmets. that and their dark paintjob made them distinct from a Brett army, and i used Vampire Counts rules for them. but i also converted men-at-arms into grave guard, peasant bowmen into skeletons, and the like. so it was also obviously a planned-out whole-army conversion.

    if it looked like i’d just grabbed some peasants and were claiming they were now zombie peasants, or just hitting my primed peasants with some green ink to claim they were dead the whole time, it would still be proxy.

    • Ben_S

      The GW guidelines make quite clear that a red paint job isn’t a conversion – still what they would class as a proxy, even though you’re not simply using a model from one army as a fill-in in another.

  • KnightShift

    Basing rule is ridiculous. A nice flat black is completely neutral for any environment and one’s eyes tend to slide off of it as if it was merely a shadow. Basing tends to break the illusion that these are real forces fighting it out on some distant exotic world.

  • Nwttp

    I don’t understand the basing thing. Sure it looks good if they’re just for show, but if you’re playing on top of some terrain, how does random metal and lava, that doesn’t go along with what the model is sitting on, look better than straight black? The answer? It doesn’t. They just want you to spend more money on their stuff.

    • SilentPony

      Honestly I’m okay if someone just paints their base black or grey or green. I don’t need details, grass, body parts, shading, etc…

    • JPMcMillen

      Just find a hobby store that sells model train stuff. You can get cheap basing material there.

      • Nwttp

        I could, but my point was that I don’t want to. I don’t find it neccisarry for a good looking model… that and it’s hard enough for me to just finish models, I’m not a fast painter

  • “Miniatures should be fully WYSIWYG”…also “We don’t sell the kits to make your miniatures fully WYSIWYG” (hello re-released Arvus Lighter with none of the aircraft upgrades available anymore)

  • The proxy rule is really poorly written. I get the spirit of it, but “I’ve painted up these Bretonnian Knights as Blood Knights for a corrupted Bret army” or “This Tree Lord is an Avatar of Khaine in a Exodite-themed Eldar army” would both fall afoul of this in a way that I think is contrary to the spirit of what they wrote.

    I get not wanting “These three Rhinos are Wave Serpents”, but they should have gone with an “Email us” approach like with conversions.

  • Chris Hilliard

    One more thing to intimidate new players from joining in. Thanks GW.

  • CloakingDonkey

    Perfectly acceptable set of rules. Much more lenient than I remember them from back in 2nd/3rd edition…

    I’m particularly chuffed about the inclusion of a Basing rule. I have no issue with people just doing basecoats and nothing else but there few things uglier than a primed base with paint smears.

    • euansmith

      You’d better hope those are “paint smears”; however it is probably not a good idea to handle your opponents minis… certainly not with gloves.

  • FCBullsht

    “no proxies” is a great concept for a company who is missing models /options for about 20% of their datasheets!

  • Jared Swenson

    The difference is if you took the witch aelf model and made it as instructed on its kit, then used it as counts-as death cult assassins, then it’s a proxy. But if you do something to it to try making it look convincingly like it belongs in the 40k universe, like replace the heads with human heads, give them power swords, a few purity seals here and there, then it’s a conversion. It’s about the effort. You could argue the witch elf as is could pass as a cult of assassins as-is, but since you didn’t do anything to the model to convince anyone it is anything other than a fantasy witch elf, then it’s a proxy.

  • PrehistoricUF0

    I generally agree with, and approve of, the guidelines they have set. I only have one completely painted and based army – the rest are in various stages – but I will only put onto the tabletop and into my display what is completed. Everything else is in their cases.

  • dante13

    Then they need to start selling Defilers with Bases…

  • Jared Jeanquart

    90%? Come on, 51%, please.