Goatboy’s 40k: Chaos Brigades, Forgeworld, & Command Point Banks

Goatboy here talking about some of the new strengths from the keyword “Chaos”.

The new 40k Codexes are starting to put a lot more emphasis on the usage of Command Points.  The current “champion” on strong Stratagems is the new Chaos Codex.  They have the most options for creating “damaging” turns with usages like causing more wounds, setting up way to close to an opponent, and even just making things harder for your opponent to hurt them.  This leads into trying to find ways to get the cheapest Brigade to generate the biggest bank of Command points.  Lucky for us – Forgeworld and the Chaos Keyword allows the bad guys to have more then enough points to do all their dirty tricks.

 

Regarding Forge World…

Before I go into the initial list building thoughts on this – let me begin by saying we should really look at Forgeworld to fix some of this.  A lot of these units are too “cheap” can causes this ability to abuse the Brigade detachment. The idea for this one is that you only take this Detachment to make your army.  You are forced to take so many “taxes” that it becomes hard to fulfill all the pieces need to get those sweet sweet command points.  Of course you have Forgeworld and the dirt cheap Renegades and Heretics army to come and bring you all those delicious command points.  It has me feeling that events need to step back, look at the broken choices, and maybe make a blanket statement of no Forgeworld again.  It would remove a lot of the Smite Spam and upcoming Brigade Detachment spam that is coming as people start to figure out that turns with +1 to Wound and shooting twice might be a bit too much for armies to handle.

Meet the Chaos Soup Brigade

Let’s begin by a quick version of the Chaos Soup Brigade.

Using Renegades & Heretics and Chaos Daemons to get the cheapest options out of each force org Slot.

Chaos Brigade Soup – Daemons/Renegades and Heretics
HQ: The Changling – 100pts
HQ: Malefic Lord – 30pts
HQ: Malefic Lord – 30pts
Elites: Renegade Marauders X 5, Stalkers, Sniper Rifle X 2, Shotgun X 3 – 34pts
Elites: Renegade Marauders X 5, Stalkers, Sniper Rifle X 2, Shotgun X 3 – 34pts
Elites: Renegade Marauders X 5, Stalkers, Sniper Rifle X 2, Shotgun X 3 – 34pts
Troops: Brimstones X 9, Blue Horror X 1 – 32pts
Troops: Brimstones X 9, Blue Horror X 1 – 32pts
Troops: Brimstones X 9, Blue Horror X 1 – 32pts
Troops: Brimstones X 9, Blue Horror X 1 – 32pts
Troops: Brimstones X 9, Blue Horror X 1 – 32pts
Troops: Nurglings X 3 – 60pts
FA: Chaos Spawn X 1 – 33pts
FA: Chaos Spawn X 1 – 33pts
FA: Chaos Spawn X 1 – 33pts
Heavy: Renegades Heavy Weapon Team, 3 Mortars – 24pts
Heavy: Renegades Heavy Weapon Team, 3 Mortars – 24pts
Heavy: Renegades Heavy Weapon Team, 3 Mortars – 24pts

Total – 656pts – 9 CP

Building on the Base

With almost every choice sitting under 35 points each and still “decent” enough to be useful you have a really “rough” set of options for an opponent.  Plus you still have a ton of points left to grab whatever you need that might want a surplus of Command points to use.  You also need to make sure you pick a “single army” detachment to get ahold of those Stratagems – but it isn’t hard to easily add them in, get some usage out of those stratagems, and take the fight to the Imperium.

An Alpha Legion Battalion seems to be the next thing to add to this. You can go into a lot of different directions depending on your mood.  You could also look at adding a Lord of War or two – but let’s just talk about more bodies on the table top.  There has been a lot of talk about using some mixture of Khorne Berserkers, Noise Marines, and maybe some double shooting Terms to try and create an Alpha/Beta Strike list to crush an army in a turn or two.  I don’t know how good it is – but with 15+ command points at your disposal you can easily place a lot of units really close to your opponent, survive the first turn, and crush them.  You could also set up the table where there is almost no room for any deep striking or reserve deploying armies to fully capitalize on.

Alpha Legion Battalion – aka Elite Jerk Strike Force

HQ: Sorcerer, Wings, Prescience, Warptime, Force Sword – 126pts
HQ: Chaos Lord, Jump Pack, Hydra Blade – 93pts
Elite: Khorne Beserkers X 9, Chainsword/Chainaxe X 9, Icon of Wrath – 163pts
Elite: Khorne Beserkers X 9, Chainsword/Chainaxe X 9, Icon of Wrath – 163pts
Elite: Noise Marines X 9, Sonic Blasters X 9 – 171pts
Troops: Cultists X 40, Mark of Slaanesh – 160pts
Troops: Cultists X 10 – 40pts
Troops: Cultists X 10 – 40pts

956pts – and brings another 3 CP!

Heck you could add more guys on the table if you wanted, drop in Oblits, or even something else depending on how you feel.  Heck a Daemon Prince or two or you can drop some of the elites, Grab Magnus and some HQ’s and call it a day with another Supreme detachment.

Clean Up – Aisle 3!!!

This all stems from the ability to get 9 CP for very little investment.  It has me feeling like the only way to clean up some of this mess is to just remove FW from matched play until they can get their points in alignment with the rest of the armies.  It doesn’t feel really as fair as what the other armies have to pay for to generate that many Command Points.  Sure the scary AM book is out there – but this army can dump so many bodies on the table, burn multiple Command points a turn, and generate advantages that AM can’t even look at because they don’t have the access to cheap choices among all the force org choices.

What are your thoughts? 

What other types of armies could you do with this Cheap Brigade?  Would this be a good battery for some kind of Death Guard thing as well?  Will this be the common thing used for any Chaos style list that hopes to over utilize Veterans of the Long War?  Should we just say no to Soup Detachments if you have real books out already?

~Should we look at just removing Chaos/Imperium Keywords?

  • robert-reynolds

    For old timers like me soup armies feel inherantly wrong as Im used to an army being an army from a single codex. However, thematically it maked sense that gou could have an army consisting of imperial guard, space marines, assassins etc and there are many sub factions like knights and assassins that are fundamentally an add in faction rather than a standalone faction. It also makes sense from a business perspective for GW to allow players as much freedom as possible to choose and buy whatever units they wish. There are inherant restrictions within the AM codex with access to regimental traits to encourage players to take pure detachments. Personally I dont think soup is a problem but I do think FW need to errata their points as quickly as GW theres too many point cost loopholes! Rather than banning things they need to make them work properly!

    • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

      I think the sweet point of diversity vs brokenness came in 6th where you could have a CAD from one faction and an allied detachment from another faction. As an exception to the normal rules you could also take an Inquisitorial detachment. Gave all the fluff possibilities you would really want without the unlimited spam we see now or the formation nightmare of 7th.

      I feel very nostalgic for CAD+AD.

    • Spacefrisian

      For old timers like me i finaly see chaos as a unified thing again and i can stop wondering why Imperium cant play nice with each other cause they can for a while now.

      Now i can wonder about when GW brings back Iyanna Arienal, Nuadhu or Kruellagh and the likes.

    • Charon

      To be fair I can remember Chaos Daemons and LaD (+ beastmen) beeing in the same codex as the rest of the CSM.

  • Fergie0044

    Chapter approved needs to add a new rule that the keywords ‘chaos’ and ‘imperium’ cannot be used to create detachments. That will go some way to limiting soup armies. Plus, you know, player decency and restraint. Anyone remember that?

    • Simon Chatterley

      You can make a very similar force keeping the detachments as a core key word if you wanted in truth. There is just no incentive if it’s not CSM right now.

      Player decency?

      Get ready for 3 different Hive fleets all somehow finding themselves on the same battlefield…somehow

      • Fergie0044

        Yea I was being somewhat tongue in cheek about the decency. I know full well these are tournament lists for tournament people.

        I suppose a pure Renegades & Heretics list could manage it. I’m not overly familiar with the forgeworld stuff.

        • Simon Chatterley

          It could and probably more efficiently than what Goatboy made on the fly.

          The idea is just to generate maximum CP for your CSM force to use but there’s a line where you are just producing pointless amounts. I use between 6 and 7 in turn 1 in my tournament list and usually you’ve either won or lost with it by that point. Boring and pointless but that’s tournament play for you.

          But FW units are a problem right now as they are too cheap. When every Chaos tournament list has 5 Malefic Lords in it there is a problem…

    • AEZ

      Soup armies are fluffy.. however Noise Marines and Zerks together is pushing it.

  • sniperjack

    First: Think about for what you want to use those many CP.
    Second: Adding just bodies is not always helpful.
    Third: Think about the gaming time. Can you handle all those bodies in time.
    And i would not buy those many models, which you have to paint, on a bad concept, just to be faq’ed in short time.

  • Simon Chatterley

    The elite jerk strike force isn’t that bad TBH. Yeah the Noise Marines all got to shoot when they die but they are boltguns at the end of the day.

    40 double shooting cultists can be a pain though. Especially when it’s +1 to wound and shooting twice but I’d rather be using them stratagems on a harder hitting unit.

    Somehow though I’ve become “that guy” for using AL Berserkers. I really don’t get it as most of the time I have to deploy them in hiding…

    • Drpx

      People haven’t had to deal with Berserkers actually crossing the table and charging them for years.

  • Randy Randalman

    FW is and has always been a stain on the game. They make resin models that are no longer even superior to their plastic cousins, and FW is arguably the worst rules writing miniatures company on the planet. They should make models and let GW write their rules and fashion their points.

    (Chapter Approved will thankfully be addressing a lot of it.)

    • David Smith

      I hope you’re right about CA.

      As to FW + rules etc., I think you’ve overstated it a bit, but they really should have stuck to producing doors and ‘dozer blades.

      When I was young and stupid, and had a bit of extra cash to throw at FW stuff, I didn’t care as much if it was out of whack, but then I couldn’t use it in a tourney at the time anyhow.

      I’ve owned a few pieces in my day, but the resin really turned me off. So, I don’t even look at it anymore. For the price you pay it should be arrow straight, and not full of bubbles.

  • Erich Schoenholtz

    The first thing to stop this crap from happening is to drop the stupid “soup” moniker. Dumbest name ever.

    • UnLachy

      I propose the name minestrone

  • Wes

    I think that Forgeworld needs to be addressed. However, the rumor is that Chapter Approved will be adjusting points, including FW points. So I’m waiting for that before I start throwing out fixes.

  • 301stFeinminsterArmoured

    Can’t be asked to care about this, because it can’t deal with tanks by itself.

  • Richard Mitchell

    I really like CSM lists like this, ironically good and fluffy. CSMs are supposed to be less numbers when compared to SMs so you would expect them to contain cultists and demons to fill their ranks.

  • Marco Marantz

    Just curious; how many times can you use the AL stratagem to ‘infiltrate’? In matched play you are limited to one per phase? The author says you can put a lot of units close to the enemy…I don’t think this is permissible in matched?

  • Nick Chan

    Pshhhh apparently C-Beam rapier batteries aren’t good enough to make your list?! They are unholy and yes I use them to clear squads.