Plastic Horus Heresy: GW’s Hopes and Fears

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Today we have even more purported background on GW’s thinking and plans for the plastic Horus Heresy boxed set:

Some further context on plastic 30K:via WhispererofTruth 2-17-2015

“The starter set will be joined by a plastic heresy armour set and some plastic Skitarri over the course of the next year. The idea of these boxes is allow players to create armies that can be played in both 30k and 40k and as such expand both markets.

Both Admech and the Legions produced by FW proved to be popular beyond all expectations. So popular infact that GW can justify pumping out kits for a game that isn’t even one of their core games. It’s also being done as a safety nets, in case 9th ed Fantasy (Which 30k now outsells) crashes and burns, then they have 30k in place to pick up the pieces.

The Old armour kit will be a mix of armour types rather than a kit of say Mk4 armour. All parts will be of course compatible with the current Space Marine range. I do believe a plastic servitor is being done too.”

 

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and the rebuttal… via Hastings 2-17-2015

“This is partially true. The “starter set” is in fact a standalone game, however I’ll accept starter set as it does lead onto the main 30k game. I think it’s safe to assume that 30k could/will have a different game mechanic to 40k, or it would be pretty pointless as a standalone game. Hence the reason that some boxes will contain rules for both 30 & 40k (if the rules weren’t different they’d only include 1 set of rules.

It’s not however a safety net for WFB, it’s a replacement for lotr/hobbit on the shelves as AFAIK all of this is going direct only. WFB is going to have plenty of store presence, and regardless of what many (and indeed I) think I don’t think the reboot will be bad for WFB, especially if in it’s current format is failing to sell. Hell at one point it was almost totally canned. You never know new WFB might just be awesome (not finecast awesome either), however my own feelings are that the background is what makes WFB, dick with this then it isn’t WFB any more, and frankly that just isn’t for me. I’m going a little O/T here posting about WFB on 40k (or should that be 30k??) boards but I feel it’s as good a time as any. I think what’s done WFB no good is the high entry cost and investment of time & money to get a decent army, making a game that’s playable as a skirmish game AND a massed battle game does make financial sense, start small, minimal initial outlay, get people interested/hooked, build and buy a bigger army, SADLY this is where GW fall down, THIS IS WHAT THEY USED TO DO YEARS AGO, with games like Heroquest, Warhammer Quest, Blood Bowl etc. get people into the Warhammer world and setting and races of that fantasy world. They lost sight of this and thought that the product was self sustaining, it isn’t, there is much more competition now for peoples hard earned cash than ever before, there are many companies that do similar and in some cases better stuff than GW and people know it, because other companies use the internet etc. to their advantage, GW see it as the enemy, and they are wrong. I guarantee this thread has generated more excitement in a few short hours than crap like warhammer visions ever will, and it won’t cost them hardly anything. People including me are now thinking, maybe I’ll get some nids really for genestealer cults coming along, or I’ll pick up an extra deathstorm box for all the nids, or whatever, that GW is SALES. Hiding away ignoring your fan base is beyond ridiculous, especially in such a niche market. The fact that Whispereroftruth said “Admech….. proved popular beyond all expectations” shows just how little they know/listen to their fanbase, as this has been one of THE most wishlisted armies for so many years it is ridiculous. Anyway enough rambling.

I honestly don’t think the new WFB will crash and burn. I think it WILL bring in new blood, and after the initial nerd rage some people may actually find that all is not lost, as my good friend Harry says “BRING IT ON!!!!!”

Full 40K “End Times” Rumor Roundup

 ~I have been dreaming of that “old mk. armor” plastic kit for over a decade now.  So AWESOME!

  • Will_Incarnate

    Huh. Wonder if this will be kinda like a multipart armor of the ages kit.

    • Mark Pearce

      I’m a bit confused as to the rebuttal he states it’s not a starter set but a stand alone game and then states it contains rules for 40k and 30k. Sounds like a starter set to me.

      • Jaffinch

        Perhaps the rules are stripped down. Imagine a Space Hulk game which also included basic rules for moving and shooting with infantry in 40k, allowing you to use the Genestealers and Terminators on the tabletop.

      • Jaffinch

        Perhaps the rules are stripped down. Imagine a Space Hulk game which also included basic rules for moving and shooting with infantry in 40k, allowing you to use the Genestealers and Terminators on the tabletop.

        • majorwesjanson

          Or Space Hulk that included datasheets for the Terminators and Genestealers, but didn’t include the 40K rules. That way you can run the units in 40K, but not with this set so you cant start 40K with this box.

      • DannySpeed

        Shield of baal wasnt a started set, nor was the wolves/orks one think along those lines

        • John Bower

          I’d like to know exactly where Shield of Baal fell, after all it had the rulebook in.

        • John Bower

          I’d like to know exactly where Shield of Baal fell, after all it had the rulebook in.

      • amaximus167

        Perhaps it is a stand alone game with it’s own rules that includes rule cards for the models to be used in 40k/30k?

  • Spiritof69

    This article should be re-titled, as the WFB stuff from Hastings is the interesting part. If 30k outsells WFB than that is completely on GW for mucking up one of the greatest games ever. It would be nice if they fixed it, but even if they don’t I think the community will be around for a long time. At my local GS people play Epic, Necromunda, Mordheim, Inquisitor, and BFG right along side Dropzone, Infinity, Warmapoop, and Fantasy. In fact, I would say the least played game right now is 40/30K. So, no matter how GW manages to mess it up, we will survive.

    • ” If 30k outsells WFB than that is completely on GW for mucking up one of the greatest games ever.”

      …or, you know, 30k may just be a more interesting.appealing IP to consumers in that scenario.

      • Marky

        ..It’s like 40k without the flyers and titans to ruin it 🙂

        Will it outsell 40k too?

        • Finlandiaperkele

          No.
          FW prices and extremely limited amount of factions restrict the sales.

          • Tim Whitehead

            If the miniatures are going to be plastic then it will be Citadel making then and not FW so this won’t sold along the lines of FW pricing (I hope at least) as FW pricing is higher than GW’s because casting time is slower this supply is limited.
            Limiting the factions has not stopped 30k being currently popular and gaining popularity.

          • Finlandiaperkele

            They aren’t going to do a full range.

            Just a starter box with some plastic Heresy-era marines.

            HH as a full range will stay with FW.

          • Tim Whitehead

            Yes
            yes
            and of course.

            Can’t see where you are going with this. FW do not have the ability (afaik) to produce plastics, GW does, GW are also set up to produced limited runs as and when they see fit (Dread Fleet and more recently Space Hulk)

          • Finlandiaperkele

            I mean this:

            -GW will release only a foundation of HH kits!

            They aren’t going for a full plastic range. The rules and character/vehicle design stay with FW.

          • Tim Whitehead

            Well as it stands now GW have no plans for a full plastic range also I didn’t say they was.
            Again yes I agree, it will stay with FW, unless the rumours of GW possibly bringing FW “in house” are true.

          • Finlandiaperkele

            The rumour is just that FW minis would become available at GW stores. There is no rumour I’m aware of about design/production integration.

          • Tim Whitehead

            I heard the rumour of making the miniatures available in stores and it was debunked by someone I would class as very much “in the know” With doing a search I cannot remember where I heard the rumour about bringing FW “in house” but I did hear it.

          • Tim Whitehead

            I heard the rumour of making the miniatures available in stores and it was debunked by someone I would class as very much “in the know” With doing a search I cannot remember where I heard the rumour about bringing FW “in house” but I did hear it.

          • Tim Whitehead
          • Finlandiaperkele

            Still, not about design/production integration. They will stay separate, with distribution/sales being integrated.

          • Tim Whitehead

            “2) Forge World/Black Library/Games Workshop merger is still “in the works” as you have mentioned or been kept up on.”

            Seems to suggest other wise!

          • Finlandiaperkele

            Still, doesn’t imply design team integration. Nor that of production.

            Guess we just have to wait and see.

          • Tim Whitehead

            /sigh

          • Tim Whitehead
          • wibbling

            My goodness. There are 20 distinct ‘races’. Infinite combinations of equipment, army designs and kit.

            It is as limited as hydrogen.

          • Finlandiaperkele

            As long as it’s only marines, I don’t see it gaining enough popularity to outsell WH40k.

        • Finlandiaperkele

          No.
          FW prices and extremely limited amount of factions restrict the sales.

        • If you subscribe to the fallacy that implies that, then I suppose.

        • Benderisgreat

          Who told you it doesn’t have flyers and Titans? Have you seen the HH FW books? Flyers and Titans are all over the damn place.

        • silentRaven

          …Uh there’s fliers and titans in 30k. Primarchs too (though you can only take 1 LoW at 2500 points IIRC, which is damned decent of them for setting that)

    • Camoron

      I think that they are correct when they talk about the size of the armies being restrictive. I’m a big 40k player, but the scale and (presumed) complexity of WFB has kept me away.
      The rulebook for WFB is still there and I’ll be grabbing a copy, because I’m almost certain I’ll start playing with the reboot which I think will be a launching pad for me in to current fantasy.

    • Camoron

      I think that they are correct when they talk about the size of the armies being restrictive. I’m a big 40k player, but the scale and (presumed) complexity of WFB has kept me away.
      The rulebook for WFB is still there and I’ll be grabbing a copy, because I’m almost certain I’ll start playing with the reboot which I think will be a launching pad for me in to current fantasy.

      • Tyler Mengel

        You know I always thought that too. Then I finally took the plunge with Tomb Kings back in 2012 and you realize how quickly the points add up. Pretty soon you don’t have room to field all the units you want due to points.

        All of the monsters, characters, and monstrous infantry eat up the point pretty quickly limiting your model count. Plus, when I was starting I played 1,000 point games of Fantasy and it worked just fine. I think for 1,000 points I had maybe 30 models? Now I’m playing around 1,800 and that additional 800 points was eaten up by about 3 other models. So it’s all about what army you collect and what play style you want. If you want to play an all infantry army then yes, you can have a lot of models.

        When people think of the high model count for Fantasy I think they are really just thinking of the Skaven. It’s the same with Orks in 40k, or nids, ors the Guard. Both game systems have high model count armies and play styles. Heck, if you play Warriors of Chaos for Fantasy you can get away with below 20 models.

        Fantasy has just gotten this bad reputation for high model count armies that really isn’t true and is just being regurgitated again and again until people take it as the truth. My advice, disregard 90% of what you hear on the internet as FACT, it is actually just OPINION the majority of the time. Instead look into it on your own at your local game store. Peruse the model range, crack open an army book and do some sample army list builds and you may just fine an army and build that suits the model count you want.

        Let’s break the cycle of misinformation and conveying opinion as fact. A lot of this information is coming from either 40k players who don’t fully understand what they are talking about and view Fantasy as the “other,” that game system that is taking time and resources away from the only one they want to play, or from tourny players who are stuck in their play styles and want to min max everything which can result in expensive and high model count armies. Fantasy is fun and can have a relatively low model count and price entry point. Just don’t do a Skaven slave army…

        • jason simmons

          Couldn’t agree more Tyler!

        • Exactly. My chaos and elven armies have the same model count as space marine armies have.

      • silentRaven

        Same boat man. I love the Lizardmen (favorite GW range), but the army I’d want to build is not ideal (lots of saurus, lots of Carnosaurs), but they’re supposedly not going to be in it.

        And it’s damn staggering the amount of guys I’d have to get to be able to fight in Fantasy-so I pretty much just wrote it off and ran my Lizardmen models (on round bases) as previous codex Black Templars (took elements of Lizardmen background, and the Covenant Elite/Sanghelli background-I used Templars because their fighting style (in my head) was like the Covenant from Halo-bodies over bullets, and they had an Arbiter-like character with the Emperor’s Champion

  • David Dutton

    I agree with the points about WFB, lately the background has been as strong as ever, but its the high entry point and huge work involved with affording and painting armies with 100+ models. Bringing back the focus to smaller games like hero quest or blood bowl which require a low model count allows people to get involved in WFB without dropping hundreds of dollars.

    As for 30k I really could not be more excited. I have the HH book one from forgeworld and have always enjoyed the background and am a particular fan on MK III armor. Sure some people complain about its focus on marine vs marine, but let’s face it, go into any FLGS and more than half the people there have marines anyway.

    • dodicula

      None of these aremis have 100+ models: Warriors of chaos, Lizardmen, Daemons, Bretonnians, Ogres, Wood, Elves, Dark Elves, High Elves. All of them cost pretty much what a space marine army costs. Any time someone says “Fantasy has too many models” I hear: “I am bad at math”

      • Kevin Buesse

        40k can be played at as little as 500-750 points about 1/3 to 1/4 the size of a standard game. Which generally means maybe what 20 models? As I understand it fantasy starts around 2250 and doesn’t scale down well. Now some of this might be alleviated with the new mega monsters and 50% HQ. But still until recently you needed more models in general to play a fantasy game than a 40k. So getting all high and mighty about not needing 100+ models still doesn’t address a real complaint people had. It takes too much time and money to create a fantasy army.

        • Mars Needs Beer

          As I understand it 40k starts around 1850 points and doesn’t really scale down well unless playing Kill Team :p

          You can play both systems at lower points perfectly fine — its just popular opinion to put on the table as much as possible. I really enjoy and quite often play Fantasy games in the 1500pt range.

          • Camoron

            We normally play 40k at 1250 to 1500 points. I believe 1850 is that standard for tournaments.

          • Camoron

            We normally play 40k at 1250 to 1500 points. I believe 1850 is that standard for tournaments.

          • Marky

            If gw still supported the tournament scene they could run 1250 pt tournies and lower the whfb entry cost.

            They don’t tho

          • Tim Whitehead

            Considering the backlash they get for doing almost anything is it any wonder why they don’t support the tournament scene?

          • Marky

            If gw still supported the tournament scene they could run 1250 pt tournies and lower the whfb entry cost.

            They don’t tho

          • silentRaven

            Tau scale down gloriously (so long as you aren’t crutching on Riptides)

        • Frank Krifka

          2250 points? What are you high? 2250 points is probably what most tournament and organized play tops out at. Most mid-sized games I’ve seen starts around 1500 pts. You can easily build (a very competitive) 1500pt WoC list with 17 models.

          Also, fantasy does just fine in the 500-750 point range. Don’t talk about things you obviously have no knowledge of.

          • deris87

            Which is why I never see people posting lists for 2.4 or 2.5k on forums, amirite? I’ve never in my life seen a game of Fantasy played below 1K points.

          • deris87

            Which is why I never see people posting lists for 2.4 or 2.5k on forums, amirite? I’ve never in my life seen a game of Fantasy played below 1K points.

          • Frank Krifka

            Most of the lists I see on forums are for tournament play which is often around 2.25 to 2.5k. since players are after looking for feedback on what the best list is to bring. I tend to play at around 2k for fun, but can easily field up to 4k. I’ve played games as low as 500 pts. and they play just fine, but that’s not very often as I prefer longer more complex games.

          • Mars Needs Beer

            You could argue the same for 40k forums. I’ve honestly never seen a game of 500-750pts played. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist though or isn’t popular in different areas.

          • carlisimo

            As someone who doesn’t play WFB but considered it… it’s widely said or believed that you DO need 2250 points. It may not be true, but it’s the impression potential n00bs get from checking out the online scene.

          • Which is why the online scene can be bad. Everything is from a tournament perspective spoken as if it were hard fact.

            The online scene is quite potent.

          • silentRaven

            Is khorne actually good in Fantasy? Like Tau in shooting good?

          • Frank Krifka

            I’ve seen mono Khorne lists and the guys who play mono Khorne say they’ve had some reasonable success. But typically non-fluffy player who want a Khorne heavy list will take a wizard for spell protection.

            So the short answer is yes. The long answer is sort of.

        • LordAK

          We here have had fun WFB tournament at 1.5k points before and will be having 800 pts tourney a month from now.

          As much as I enjoy large points ET games, I find lower point games can also be fun an challenging.

          • Nameless

            As a Warhammer player i have to say the games does scale poorly below 750pts. some armies are going to struggle to field anything even remotely balanced (and in the case of Bretonnia archaic force organization).

          • Tim Whitehead

            As I am not near my WHFB rule book, does it still contain rules for Skirmish?

          • Nameless

            I don’t believe it does, or has for a couple of editions. The did publish an ebook called Vanguard Clash which was meant to be for smaller games however does little to fix the issue of having to take pricy characters (Ogre’s and Warriors) or multiple characters (Bretonnia)

          • Tim Whitehead

            I guess in the end you have to rely on you opponent to want to play “fair” and not beard it up or be a win at all cost player. I think Mordheim is available for free legally online somewhere, iirc it from the authors and was in PDF format, luckily I have two rule books, my original, based up one and a good quality one from Ebay 🙂

      • Stormxlr

        I can field Deathwing at 750 points with 11-12 models.

      • James Regan

        the difference seems to me that people can be interested in Skaven, Empire or undead, and want to buy that army, but the high model count puts them off or (like me) severely delays them getting into playing the game and these factions are more ‘core’ to the fluff as marketted.
        counter to this, 40k only has orks in terms of high model count armies, as while ‘nids and guard can easily be fielded as (and are sometimes competitive as) a horde, smaller forces with less models (i.e. mech guard, or MC nids) are possible.

        it’s also worth noting that what puts me off from playing skaven isn’t the price, as I have bought and assembled a decent skaven army, but actually getting round to painting 120+ rat men (three years and counting of them being sat on my shelves)- this is a more significant problem in fantasy, as playing guard or nids I could shortcut into playing games (with 20-30 models), then add to my force, whereas I’m pretty stuck with my skaven until I’ve painted a reasonable portion (not all of them, mind, I could easily manage with 50 or so grunts). Also tanks paint quicker if you aren’t concerned with quality (or playing ‘crons, the rich mans low effort army, as even my 100 model phalanx only took a month or so) .

        • silentRaven

          A month? Prime them silver, wash in Badab black/Nuln Oil/similar, put on a base, done.

          • James Regan

            i started black primer, dry-brushed up, actually bothered with the detail (chest and eyes+ weapon bits), and the month included buying them, which wasn’t a single purchase (and I had to order wraiths in, as our LGS isn’t big enough to stock more than 1 set at a time).

        • dodicula

          Well if you are saying you dont have to make IG high model count, then I would like to point out, Empire can definately be fielded as low model count army(cav/demigryphs+steam tanks) and this is probably their most common build , skaven/orcs are a bit more challenging, though skaven do have effective builds with storm vermin/bells and a-bombs. Undead also have grave guard, blood knight centered armies. So your argument basically boils down to: I dont want to paint 120 skaven so fantasy is unplayable. I’d like to point out two other things while I’m at it:
          Clanrat skaven are one of the cheaper armies to put together if you get the starter set,

          Even for the largish armies , unlike 40k, fantasy readilly lends itself to unit-fillers.

          • James Regan

            My argument isn’t that fantasy is unplayable (I have two fantasy armies- not counting the unpainted skaven- and prefer it to 40k in terms of gameplay) it’s that it is understandable that 40k is easier to get into, due to low model count armies also being the most popular armies that best fit the fluff.
            Fantasy also suffers from low model armies tending to be outliers in the fluff- an empire army that looks like an empire army has state troops. A skaven army that looks like a skaven army has blocks of rats. A space marine army that looks like a space marine army is small and elite, and those are half of 40k by themselves. Yes it is playable with low model counts- are low model count fantasy armiesas attractive as low model count 40k- no, and even then they are probably slightly higher model count (by 5-10 models, or 1 space marine squad’s worth).

    • Mars Needs Beer

      I’ll never understand why GW doesn’t push a Mordheim revival. They don’t even have to make any models, just use the existing range and throw up a LE hardcover followed by a regular softcover rulebook. Publish conversion tutorials / ideas in WD that encourage you to buy 1-2 kits and get people into the hobby with small model count that can evolve over time. Generate sales with minimal overhead.

      • pauk777

        Completely agree – Necromunda was a great game and would be so straight forward to launch a core rulebook that included options for all the WFB armies that you could later expand on.

      • Camoron

        Not sure. Obviously they have tried it and for one reason or another it didn;t work? Perhaps it’s TOO small and there isn’t enough “rebuy” to continue to support it. I wonder if they even looked in to it before turning WFB inside out.

      • Camoron

        Not sure. Obviously they have tried it and for one reason or another it didn;t work? Perhaps it’s TOO small and there isn’t enough “rebuy” to continue to support it. I wonder if they even looked in to it before turning WFB inside out.

        • Mars Needs Beer

          Seriously, the smallest commitment they’d have to make if designed around the existing range is 1 book.

          And even that could be digital only. Bound to sell atleast a few boxes of plastic!

      • Azrell

        because its a pc now, and GW just makes crap that the studio wants to. They have no talent left to actually design anything, they just roll out rehashes of what more talented people made 20 years ago.

        • wibbling

          “… just makes crap that the studio wants to. They have no talent left …”

          You, boy, are a rude unpleasant waster.

          Yes, Games Workshop are a plc, yes they have shareholders but you contradict yourself. If the studio – the *design* studio – only makes what it wants, and what it wants sells then they are doing their job.

          The people producing Games Workshop products are supremely talented. If they still made the same we would have the old Nagash, the RBT01 space marine sprue.

          Grow up, more importantly, be silent. If you can do better then start your own company. When you make £10 million a year revenue you can complain. Until then, be grateful that other, better people cannot fight back against your petulant whining.

          • withershadow

            He’s kind of right. They ARE just rehashing old stuff that was successful. Which is actually a good thing, because when they get “creative” and invent new things, we get godawful things like Centurions and Logan’s Santa sled.

      • Master Avoghai

        The answer is in the article actually.

        GW fears internet and all the side market it implies.
        Obviously, we won’t buy box set but rather bitz on bitz websites. And for them, bitz websites are not sales for them (which is stupid since bitz website pay customer prices and buy their boxset to GW)

        But more than that, they fear other stand alone models producers on KS or elsewhere, that can sell “imperator priests” or “vampire noble” in lieu of the mordheim GW models…

        Not a good reason though if you want my opinion but I think it’s their reason not releasing Mordheim or Necromunda (though necro would be easier in a inquisitor themed with more protected IP like jokaero or genestealer…)

      • ted1138

        Someone high up at GW thought it a bad idea to continue making games that only required players to own a handful of miniatures(ignoring the fact that some of those players would go on to spend a small fortune on more models and games). They’d rather get you hooked on a game that forces you to constantly buy new models and books for the rest of your (gaming)life…

  • PinkTerror

    This really start’n to seem round robin. In the early 90’s, the three core games for GW were 40k, WFB, and “Space Marine” aka “EPIC” aka “Horus Heresy”. Then they d¡cked with EPIC and the third branch became a revolving door of Necromunda, Mordenheim, Gorkamorka, Blood Bowl, Inquisitor and some others until LotR came along. I think they need that third wheel to test the waters and have fun, but this feels like they are giving ForgeWorld their shot and saying “Ok mate, you walk the walk…now can you talk the talk?”.

    And they will.

    • Camoron

      Yea, agree. I’d guess that the only reason LotR has been on the shelf even half as long as it has been is because of contracts.

      • Nameless

        yeah that’s why Smaug can stay in stock for longer than a few hours at a time despite his price tag. the managing of the Lotr/hobbit range is appalling, its not promoted, books aren’t available and managers are told not to try and sell it.

        but the appeal that the franchise has, especially to people outside of the wargaming community, is massive. Games Workshop has the rights not for their own benift but to stop anyone else from trying to push in on their market shares (in the way X wing has)

        • Camoron

          Smaug is an exceptional model and is done in limited runs.
          “Here are some products that take up shelf space – but dont sell them!”. Retail 101.
          Wait for it “my mate is a manager a GW and he told me so”.
          I can do facetious too.

          • Retconned Legion

            Er…he wasn’t being facetious, he was agreeing with you. GW have done the absolute bare minimum with the Hobbit license, despite its potential.
            Back when the LotR films were in cinemas, the range was outselling 40k and Fantasy combined. If GW had bothered, the Hobbit could have sold almost as well.

          • Nameless

            Thanks Retconned Legion. Yeah Games workshop mishandles the range so horribly its not funny. there is the potential for it to sell, but lack of effort is what leaves it getting dust. I mean how often do you see anything hobbit related in white dwarf, and when you do its just a couple of models being released. there’s no articles about it.

          • georgelabour

            Uhmm they’ve actually had entire scenarios for new model releases, and they also did that entire update booklet for battle of five armies.

            So aside from new model stats, scenarios, mini-games, and painting guides what else can GW be doing in White Dwarf to promote that game?

  • Nogle

    I hope it’s mk 2 or 3. 4 just seems too plain/streamlined for me.

  • kobalt60

    A new starter set with 2 marine forces? I already have full Salamander, Iron Warrior,Black Legion, Word Bearer, Deathguard and Worldeater armies, and several units of Emperors Children, Alpha Legion and Thousand Sons. So…. I will buy this new box, maybe a couple. I am the idiot GW tailors its market strategy to, and i’m not proud of it

    • Stormxlr

      How many points in each army do you have? But the main question is why do you need so much power armor?

    • Hahboo

      Kobalt we all love the heck out of ya and just want to see you get the treatment you need. Plastic crack is a serious addiction

  • Jotunheim

    *That guy* That dusk raider up top has an two-headed aquila on his belt buckle. Wasn’t it only the Emperor’s Children who got to wear that?

    • Chris John

      They wear the slightly different palatine aquila. And although they are the only whole legion to be honoured that way, individual marines of other legions may have been also.

    • Haighus

      The EC earned the right for EVERY member of their Legion to bear the Eagle, for other Legions it was awarded as a specific Battle Honour on a case by case basis. The EC just managed to get the entire Legion a Battle Honour. It was also a symbol later used by Loyalist remnants of Traitor Legions to signify their Loyalty, and was commonly scratched into the armour of Loyalist Legionaries on Isstvan 3 (along with their Legion iconography often being obliterated).

      • Jotunheim

        Argh! I’ve been defeated! Good on you 😉

    • kobalt60

      I was going to award you 367 internet points for recognizing the Dusk Raider, till i looked closer, and saw it was printed in the picture. Still, if this rumour is real, i’ll be using the set to start either a dusk raider, imperial herald or war hound army, because vaguely obscure is fun

  • Tim Whitehead

    A whole bunch of 30k Miniatures for a decent price + (possibly) rule set! Count me in.

    • Shiwan8

      You can bet your “donkey” that it is not a decent price. Likely it is at least as much as FW, possibly more.

      • Tim Whitehead

        If it’s plastic and not resin, GW can pump out the sprues/models faster than FW can. Buying box sets always bagged you a load of miniatures for less than buying them individually. So yeah it’s not going to be cheap but take into consideration the cost of the Dark Vengence boxed set and the miniatures contained there, I deffinately consider the £65 is costs as a great investment. This will be no different.

        • Shiwan8

          You do not buy that box to get 10 cultists and then throw the rest out with the garbage. If you did it would be no different.

          • DannySpeed

            I imagine it to be more like shield of baal/wolves and orks, multipart plastic kits (as said not a starter so i doubt we will get single pose) and those boxes were GREAT value for money

          • Shiwan8

            Do not hold your breath. GW will do what it can to take as much money out of it, naturally. You are not likely to get a good deal.

          • Tim Whitehead

            Wat? Wat? Wat? Who said anything about buying something for 10 miniatures? Stop grasping at straws to justify being angry at GW/FW.

          • Shiwan8

            I do not need to. You do not get 30+ models from FW with 65£. That would be what you get from GW.

          • Tim Whitehead

            Erm, you seem to forget that it will be FW designed miniature, produced in plastic on mass by GW, so more than likely the set will be around £65-£75 and contain 30 or more miniatures.

          • Shiwan8

            Right. Ok, I thought we were talking about FW resin. My mistake.

  • amaximus167

    ‘The Old armour kit will be a mix of armour types rather than a kit of say Mk4 armour’

    I do not like this. I do not want to have to buy multiple boxes if all I want are MKIII squads. Let me rephrase that, I WILL NOT BUY multiple boxes just to get one type of armor.

    • DannySpeed

      They have those available, on the FW website. Its not a replacement for FW products, it seems to be a gateway box you can use for both 30k/40k

      • amaximus167

        I know they are available on the FW site like that. I just do not want to pay an arm and a leg for a full squad of resin. I was hoping for a less expensive starting point and have some plastic. But ‘mixed armor’ box sets do not interest me. If this is the route they take, I will just stay out of 30k cause it is too expensive for me.

  • euansmith

    It would be great if they used “30k” to produce a completely revamped set of rules that modernises the basic 40k rules. Something more streamlined, faster playing, with a more integrated turn sequence.

  • silentRaven

    “Mix of armor types”

    aka Mk5 “Heresy Armor”.

    Aka, Chaos Space Marine power armor with less spikes and trim? Goddamn it, after I went to all the effort to de-horn all my guys. Though I did build my Black Legion to be multipurpose-I can play 30k (Alpha Legion naturally) or 40k.

    The army is complete, I got Rhinos, Drop pods, Predators. The Chaos stuff (Daemon Prince, Possessed, Warp Talons, Spawn Daemon engines) is rather minimal, since I wanted a emphasis on Marines. In all I sort of prefer 40k Space Marine armies as they seem to give the player more options in unit size. I’d rather take a horde of MSUs than take huge blocks of guys.

    I’d much rather have a plastic contemptor (or Spartan).

  • MClay01

    GW needs to make a 10mm or 15mm 30k variant and leave the bigbous and detailed primarchs to forgeworld.

    • Chris. K Cook

      You Mean Epic?

      • MClay01

        No….epic is 6mm scale, I meant 10-15mm scale so we can have some detail on the troops, but still have thunderhawks and other super heavy vehicles/bugs on the table

  • chris2155

    i would rather see 30k more prominent than 40k. 30k in my opinion has a lot more narrative, more weapons, meaningful characers..you can either play the Crusade era or the HH era. Ever army in 40k can be translated into the 30k platform..Nids can be explained as the mega arachnids, crons as crons or as a remnant from the golden age or dark age of technology..it’s just better..IMHO